Gloom VS Malice: The Untold Secrets of Gloom in Tears of the Kingdom

Let's delve into the depths of Malice and Gloom in Tears of the Kingdom, particularly in relation to their Japanese terminology and cultural context!
All translations in the video have been completed by me. Like with any language, there are multiple ways to interpret and localise Japanese into English. Another may choose to translate differently!
Some references:
Shouki "gloom" in Japanese:
dream.jp/entme...
mudef.net/mdgsb...
Amanojaku: shorturl.at/yX136
yokai.com/aman...
The Japanese word for Malice in Zelda:
• The Cycle of Demise: G...
• The TERRIFYING Reality...

[@michaelkaduck1915]

Knowing all of this, Ganondorf, the true source of Calamity Ganon, has, in effect, become a nuclear reactor. The Calamity a meltdown, Malice the Radiation, and Gloom the illnesses spawned from that radiation.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

Malice is more like a drug that makes Deities become driven to Madness while being very lethal to the Mortals who are too weak to take this drug

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

The parallel, and the allure like that of The One Ring, is obviously in the blue Sheikah tech. They rendered raw Malice into the ambiguously "good" Sheikah energy, resulting in a spillover of Gloom as the even more pernicious waste product. It's the STUFF itself of Malice, while Malice is more like radiation. This then was the foundation for the blue of Silent Princess taken as the opulent alternative to Royal Family's Sundelion colors. It was partly the sad legacy of Mineru taking over her younger brothers' and Sonia's, like Isildur refusing to discard the Ring. Not to say this was PARTICULARLY inspired by LotR, I'm just using it as the example. I'm sure Nintendo's more direct inspirations were The Black Cauldron, Dragonslayer, and The Flight of Dragons. I can't say for the timeline since it wouldn't add up, but thematically I say this is still something of a prequel to the larger Zelda canon. The Royal Family is YET to adopt a sorrowful purple as their Royal color, while the color of the hero would be natural green. The siding with the color blue is still something of a big mistake, coveting too much of the power that Ganon is also after. Maybe it is the hubris side of wisdom and knowledge, over the humility of, perhaps infecting the Royal family itself with malicious purple? Taking on the burden.

[@michaelkaduck1915]

@@sboinkthelegday3892 Yeah the One Ring parallels also work when you think of Puppet Zelda and Yunobo's mask. Objects or puppets infused with evil used to manipulate good people.

[@javiervasquez625]

Interestingly the same could be said of Zelda's "Sealing Power" (the Triforce) serving as "counter radiation" to Ganondorf's Gloom/Miasma hinting at a Ying & Yang conflict within the Zelda universe involving Zelda and Ganondorf as mortal embodiments of the God Tribe and Demon Tribe respectively. Zelda = God Tribe = Light = _Order_ Ganondorf = Demon Tribe = Darkness = _Chaos_ Link = Humanity? = balance?

[@a.jthomas6132]

True that he is the source of Calamity Ganon. But the lack of in depth of Ganondorf’s background is what TOTK lacks.

[@onewingedmoogle]

Really interesting that in certain languages there are words that describe concepts so specific that they would need full sentences in certain others. Guess that just shows how much language is impacted by culture and vice-versa.

[@QuestWithAaron]

Yeah it's really crazy! It's so fascinating to explore and learn about

[@Zerolink30]

Malice is just an underpower version of Gloom. Most times we've seen Malice, the person responsible for its creation had been sealed for ages (thousands upon thousands of years) whether that is Demise in SS or Ganondorf in BotW. TotK would be the 1st time we see the main evil boss utilizing "Malice" in its purest form fresh out of a seal.

[@QuestWithAaron]

I think there is another important reason why Ganondorf uses gloom and not malice. Gloom is able to decay and rot away objects and deny impermanence (a key concept in Buddhism). I believe that this has an interesting connection that I'll be exploring in the next video ^^

[@WannaTasteLife]

​@@QuestWithAaronOh... Eagerly looking forward to that video sir!

[@oddlazdo]

This video singlehandedly made me go from hating the fact that they didn't just re-use malice in TotK, to LOVING that they didn't because it's much more obvious now how the two are different! It actually adds so much flavor and enforces the fact that Ganondorf is the DEMON king. I really love these videos you do, your channel is criminally underrated, you definitely have earned my sub today!

[@QuestWithAaron]

Thank you so much, I'm happy you're enjoying them!

[@Sarah_H]

What got me was that, in the cutscenes of the rise of the Demon King's army in the distant past, the monsters didn't have the same horns that they had in BotW (yes I know it was because they just hadn't been designed that way in BotW but theorizing is fun). Which got me thinking that Malice was just a diluted form of the far-more-potent Gloom, and would explain why the monsters go from the fancy horns in the distant past, to the standard horns in BotW, and then back to the fancy horns in TotK after the seal on Ganondorf has been broken: they were "supercharged" with pure Gloom in the past and during TotK, while in BotW they were powered by a weakened form of Gloom known as Malice. Calamity Ganon was an emanation of Ganondorf's enduring hatred for Hyrule, and when it was destroyed, all the Malice on the surface was vaporized, but Ganondorf still existed under the castle, and the damage done to the castle by the Calamity had weakened the seal enough to where, after a few years, pure Gloom started emanating out from Ganondorf and infecting whoever/whatever it came in contact with (the Gloom roots in the Depths were probably being formed in this few-years span and radiating Gloom into the Depths, while also spawning monsters. One of the Yiga clan journals at a Yiga base warns members to not touch the roots, and while we don't know when this was written, we know that the Yiga have been down here for a long time, long enough to build a network of bases and to establish a system to transport supplies from the surface to the Depths and to research Zonai technology to create vehicles)

[@burger_kinghorn]

The limited variety of monsters in BOTW can be thought of as a result of malice only producing a lesser blood moon. The fully unsealed Ganondorf could produce a full power blood moon and thus more/different monsters.

[@sylvanstrength7520]

The English localization makes the lore of this game feel so disjointed from the others, but looking at the Japanese text REALLY drives home how interconnected these games STILL are!

[@aster4jaden]

I loved your Malice video and this one is even better, you're looking more deeper into this that the big Zelda Channels are. I'm so thankful smaller Zelda Channels are still exploring TOTK.

[@QuestWithAaron]

Wow! Thank you, that truly means a lot!

[@aster4jaden]

@@QuestWithAaron No, thank you for not giving up on TOTK. I really liked the Concept of Malice in BOTW and was stumped with Gloom and couldn't figure out why they didn't just continue to use Malice. Your explanation is perfect and really opened my eyes for example, I realize now the Secret Stone that Ganondorf used really made him the closest he's ever been to Demise. Demise was said to be the "the source of all monsters", what was Ganondorf in the BOTW/TOTK Timeline? He was the source of all monsters, it pretty much confirms how Demise was the source of the monsters and I believe you pointed out that Demise still has a higher level of Malice/Gloom which means Ganondorf still isn't at Demises level and could have more potential still left in him. Recently certain big Zelda Channels began saying there isn't much Lore in TOTK so they can't seem to speculate or explore much of it, yet you did this pretty much confirms the Lore is there and they aren't really looking or they expected it to be more blatantly obvious.

[@tristanneal9552]

@@aster4jaden Honestly the state of modern big Zelda channels is depressing. After TotK most of them are acting like they barely even like Zelda. Complaining, nitpicking, claiming things don't make sense when the games have always required theory crafting to keep cohesive. It's nice channels like this one are still taking things seriously and haven't randomly decided to do a heel turn on the franchise.

[@QuestWithAaron]

There's also some really cool stuff specifically about Ganondorf in the Japanese text that I'm so excited to share in the next video! I may have found some details that could explain why Ganondorf became the demon king after obtaining a secret stone ^^

[@aster4jaden]

@@QuestWithAaron I'm looking forward to it! Also, I don't know if you noticed this. But someone on Reddit noted that Malice might be the embodiment of Demise's "Curse/Grudge" and when Ganondorf was sealed away, the Curse attempted to forcefully reincarnate in reaction to whenever Zelda and Link was born and became Calamity Ganon. That's why Ganondorf doesn't seem to have memories of what Calamity Ganon had done, because it was the Curse itself and not Him. I'm fascinated by this because it seems to run inline with what you've described what Malice and Gloom is.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

It is also worth to mention that the Master Sword is never said to be indestructable, it is said that it can resist any dark magic, but it is not immune to physical Influence, in A Link to the Past and A Link Between worlds you can give it to Mortal Weapon Smiths and they'll temper the Sword so it can deal up to twice its previous damage. If Mortals can reshape its blade then it actually was only a matter of time until it breaks

[@VMB01996]

Makes sense. Also banger pfp

[@Chris-gx1ei]

​@@VMB01996 Thx ^^

[@Dyundu]

Impermanence is a core concept in Buddhism.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

​@@Dyundu Interesting to know indeed

[@javiervasquez625]

Same as the iconic _Four Sword_ from the Four Sword trilogy which according to the Lore "was brought from the _Heavens_ by the Minish" only for it to shatter in pieces after loosing it's power for possibly thousands of years while stabbed to the Bound Chest. Both blades are of divine origin and carry godly power to vanquish evil yet are prone to breaking following many years of been drained of it's divine power needing the constant pressence of gods to recharge them throughout the Ages so that they always remain in top quality and ready to defeat wathever demon may threathen the land.

[@97Multiphantom]

What I expected: simple lore explanation What I got: confusing linguistics lesson

[@QuestWithAaron]

Sorry about that!

[@CaptBurgerson]

Incredible work once again man

[@QuestWithAaron]

Thank you so much my friend!

[@Kevin_V4778]

5:45 maybe they should have just gone with miasma. As far as I know it's translated to miasma in every other language. Also another thing regarding the Phantom Ganon fight: When Ganondorf summons him, he says "my dark servant" in English, where as in Japanese he says something like "servant formed from my flesh and blood" which sounds way more epic in my opinion.

[@QuestWithAaron]

Personally, I think that "miasma" would have been a better fit. That's what its called in the game files after all! I noticed that detail! It's a really cool concept and something I definitely want to explore more of in a future video.

[@Teknanam]

Miasma still loses the cultural connotations of the original Japanese word. It doesn't matter what word they go with. At that point, its just comes down to opinion on what simply sounds better. Miasma though would've been at least more consistent with other translations. For whatever that is worth.

[@rubengarcia7962]

iirc the Hyrule Compendium entry for Phantom Ganon in the English translation states that he was made by the very blood and flesh of the demon king.

[@Kevin_V4778]

@@Teknanam And in my opinion miasma sounds better than gloom. Sounds more dangerous and impactful. And when compared to Calamity Ganon's malice from BOTW, gloom sounds like a downgrade imo, even though it's much stronger than malice.

[@Teknanam]

@@Kevin_V4778 "At that point, its just comes down to opinion on what simply sounds better." I'm indifferent about both words. I don't feel the impact or danger of the word miasma. And gloom is just gloom. Malice was definitely superior to both, but that's just because its a much more common word that invokes more dangerous images. At least compared to gloom and miasma in the English language.

[@dissect123]

Awesome video! Several bigger channels have dismissed the Master Sword being broken as a plot hole but you actually dug into the Japanese original and explained concepts that elude the western audiences.

[@doodledrew7039]

Amazing as always, now Ill have to rewatch the others to compare shouki onnen and jyaki as best I can. It's a shame these terms don't get the same impactful terminology with baked in real world lore when translated, but it helps me appreciate how hard a task that translation of subtle terms can be.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

The impact may just be too severe to publish, in the touchy "Western" world. They censored all the empty crosses and such, and secular world doesn't have a rhetoric to replace them, with faith or no faith. The video's final conclusion spells Gloom working exactly like I was taught original sin in protestant faith: separation between man and god. And deeply linked with the nature of free will, which ties in beautifully with the free will paradox of time travel that is present in earlier Zelda games. A pagan God as the ersatz conclusion that "what is done is done, shouganai." By the way the solution in this Aristotelean method is not as simple as "timeline was split", but it is very profound. The concept of Dunamis pre-includes these discovered "new" timelines. To call it a vision like the dream of he Wind Fish: everything that is REAL, is a PREMONITION. Retcons dont change an "existing" timeline, retcons MAKE that timeline exist. When you exist NOW, you EXPERIENCE a fear f hat might come, not the reality. The split-second decision to alter this timeline with an action that has consequences is THE SAME THING as having already lived through the bad outcome ina different timeline, and NOW you live out your life with the powers of a time traveler. You jsut lack tha ABSOLUTE vision, like a person who time travels but forgets what is to come.

[@siraaron4462]

You shouldn't have to go back and watch 2 other videos to do what this video claims it does. Ultimately the in-world differences continue to be superficial and it's dumb.

[@javiervasquez625]

@@sboinkthelegday3892 The Zelda universe is indeed deterministic but not because of any "timeline splitting shenanigans" or any timetravel whatsoever for that matter but rather by the simple fact that the 3 _Golden Goddesses_ have seemingly set a predetermined set of events to take place at specific points across every game in every existent timeline we've see within the Zelda universe starting with Skyward Sword and ending all the way into the future at the end of Tears of the Kingdom. No character in the series wether they are human, god or demon has the ability to prevent the goddesses's will from been done which is why we have the 3 split timelines as a direct result of the 3 goddesses _wanting_ each timeline to exist in order to represent each of their divine essences Power (Downfall), Wisdom (Adult) and Courage (Child). Wathever Link, Zelda and Ganondorf thinks regarding their "actions" across the series they had already been preordained by the goddesses from the very beginning of Time itself as part of a "cosmic plan" which ensures they'll inevitably carry said actionss.

[@Vereid]

Great video and amazing music/editing. When I first played TotK and you hear the creepy music building up intensity when you’re below Hyrule Castle with Zelda at the start of the game - absolutely loved that opening.

[@QuestWithAaron]

Thank you! I absolutely loved the suspense of TotK's OP too! I tried to recreate a similar effect in this video (probably spent too long on editing it tbh haha), I'm happy you enjoyed it!

[@spicysquire3521]

I'm always excited when these videos pop up in my notifications, great work as always 🎉

[@QuestWithAaron]

Thank you! I appreciate it!

[@Dyundu]

I’ve been looking forward to this, and this did not disappoint. Thank you for posting! These are always a delight. You went into other pop culture depictions of 瘴気 and similar concepts-I wonder how much from Fate/Stay Night made it way into TotK as well. There are a lot of elements from Heaven’s Feel (and to a lesser extent UBW and Fate/Zero) in particular that really look and feel like 瘴気, 邪気, and related ideas. The final battle in the cave under the mountain; the morally corrupting effects the Grail had on Sakura and Artoria; both have similar in-universe effects and artistic, aesthetic depictions that resonated hard with my Zelda-obsessed soul.

[@QuestWithAaron]

Thank you! Yeah 瘴気 and other concepts are often depicted in other Japanese media, too. It's been a good while since I've watched fate/UBW, I'll have to rewatch it again with this in mind, I bet theres loads of interesting stuff in there to unpack!

[@777Rowen]

Thank you for this fascinating and informative video.

[@bravecereza]

Your videos are always a great watch, because I learn a lot alongside the fact they help deepen ToTK's writing to levels I never thought about since the japanese script describes ideas and thoughts that can't be fully translated in other languages. The French translation does its absolute best but thanks to this video, it gave more depth to Ganondorf's character and motivation that I wouldn't have been able to piece together by myself!

[@LinkLovesCrawfish]

People complain about this game but they dont realize the english is dubbed over from translation from japanese first, they say it added nothing new but a simple look at looking at the orginal source game data text shows other wise

[@QuestWithAaron]

I agree! There's plenty more that I can't wait to share as well!

[@mbii7667]

Thanks for this breakdown. It just bugs the hell outta me nobody in TOTK (that I know of) mentions how this Gloom stuff happens to look a lot like Malice.

[@a.jthomas6132]

Thinking back on Ganondorf’s surrogate mothers Kotake and Koume, and one of the dragon tear memories where puppet Zelda is made to assassinate Queen Sonia, I wonder if these two Gerudo masked figures taught him in mastering shouki before his rising status as the Gerudo king.

[@javiervasquez625]

If that were the case we would have seen or heard something alluding to the "evil Gerudo" in Ganondorf's side been able to share his mastery over shouki and yet no such information is ever provided by character or stone tablet in the game. It's plausible that since Ganondorf is the living incarnation of the Demon Tribe's curse he self-taught himself how to wield shouki out of his intense hatred and desire for power alone.

[@QuestWithAaron]

I believe I may have a possible answer to that question! I'll be talking about it in the next video about Ganondorf in Japanese specifically.

[@a.jthomas6132]

@@QuestWithAaron Looking forward in seeing your next video. The reason I brought this up is because of my complaints of TOTK lacks the in-depth of Ganondorf’s character and Commonrealm Wealth brought up a theory video about seeing of his origins before becoming the Demon King. Sadly Nintendo decided to canceled their dlc plans which upsets me the most. There are some many plot holes and questions that is still unanswered in Tears of the Kingdom story.

[@a.jthomas6132]

@@joannetrueman6838 *two gerudo woman with masks on that are behind ganondorf are Kotake and Koume

[@Zilla1954]

Watching these videos always teaches me so much about Japanese culture even outside the Zelda series. I love watching the Japanese Ultraman shows and have started to notice parallels with some of the concepts discussed on your channel. I even used this video as a reference when discussing a part of the series on my own channel, so thank you for always being informative!

[@QuestWithAaron]

Thank you so much! I'm happy to hear that my videos can be informational for your own interests and even your own channel! That's very motivating for me ^^ Good luck with your own content, I wish you the best!

[@Zilla1954]

@@QuestWithAaron Thanks! I just felt like I should leave this message while double-checking my facts about jyaki and on'nen. Glad to see you found it!

[@willisrose9756]

It's been a minute since I have seen your channel Aaron this video will help me get back on the translations!

[@HylianSwamp123]

Mannnn Shrine of Exorcism goes SOOOO much harder than Shrine of Light lol

[@thiefkingparsley576]

i guess in a sense they mean the same thing. Light is the essence that can exorcise the demon king.

[@gregorygan2077]

Demise/the Demon King and all their manifestations are the kami of the universe pre golden goddesses, a realm of chaos that the goddesses shaped and ruled without its consent. The demon king and demise are an expression of this realm's sentience and hate for what it perceives as invaders. Therefore he hates Hylia and stands opposed to everything she is. To him, she is an abuser and invader and must be expelled. Yet she keeps vanquishing him. To him, this is absolutely despicable, and he has valid reasons.

[@QuestWithAaron]

"oni" the term used to refer to a type of demon in Japanese culture are essentially "kami" that have been neglected or have been made angry, so it's definitely very possible!

[@WannaTasteLife]

Amazing! THANKS ALWAYS for your videos! In the French localized text, "shouki" is always or perhaps almost always translated "miasmes" (miasmas). And it always sounds good, even though it was very strange to see that this word was used to name a killing red substance in the first place! 🙏🏻 I think the translators should stop their fear of not using the same word for every occurrence of key words. I have translated religious English into French for years, and therefore I know the struggles of translators. But I have also often sighed out of extreme frustration in view of their sad and annoying choices, not approving how they almost always fear to be literal when literality would be so needed... People have brains. Therefore translators need to trust people's ability to grasp a bit of what doesn't fully make sense to them..., trusting that some like you will explain these new concepts. So I don't regret the French localizing team having translated "miasmes". No, not at all! 😊 And now that I have viewed all your videos (except one that I'll watch ASAP), I love the Zelda series even more, being completely healed of my pain for the lack of perfect respect of the lore from one game to the other. How? By seeing, even more than ever so far, that the stories of Zelda games are to be seen and studied as stand-alone artistic masterpieces that are full of moral, philosophical and spiritual value! So it's not a painful problem to me anymore if only recuring key characters, pivotal elements of game design, and key concepts are common to all the games of the series. I mean that I don't suffer anymore that Zelda games are not all part of a consistent timeline made of truly and undeniably connected events! I'm so glad. What a relief it is, after so many months of frustration! Thank you Aaron for so heavily contributing to it!

[@QuestWithAaron]

Thank you so much! I absolutely get what you mean! I've had so many instances when translating where I've wished that I could have used several translations for a single Japanese word. Especially with words like "shouki", it's just impossible to capture all of its nuances with a single translation. There are so many Japanese words that don't seamlessly translate into English similar to "shouki"; sometimes it can be a real struggle to find a workaround! Perhaps one of the potential reasons why they settled with "gloom", is because it allows for multiple interpretations. It's absolutely not perfect, and perhaps "miasma" would have been better, but regardless, it's inevitable that plenty of cultural nuances will be lost. Language is too complex! Exploring these rich terms and what they mean for the Zelda series is what I love to do and share on this channel, and I am so happy that you enjoy it. Once again, thank you so much! I have plenty of more videos planned like this that will look at other Japanese words with a similar story ^^

[@WannaTasteLife]

​​@@QuestWithAaron Thank you so much for replying!! 🙏🏻 Yeah, without footnotes containing alternative translations or lexical entries there's no way a translator can fully express all the richness of meaning of certain words of the source language. As for words as pivotal as "shouki", using the same English word for each of their occurrences has the following advantage: it allows the player to see where that particular Japanese word is used, thus giving him/her opportunity to begin to see that it has some deep significance, which in turn might prompt him/her to try to know more about the possible cultural (philosophical or spiritual) significance of that particular word. And even without that, allowing the player to know WHEN some character in the game speaks about that red substance emanating from Ganondorf IS essential, because otherwise, in my opinion, the English player is robbed of knowing the intentions of the game developers. By the way, could some Japanese players be unaware of the real meaning of shouki? I'm talking about people being born in a family where Buddhism and Shintoism would not be known any more than some Europeans know the content of the Christian faith of their culture (and I'm talking about those who know virtually nothing about the Bible, etc.). Can such a thing exist among Japanese players? If so, then even Japanese players need to delve into the cultural meaning of words like "shouki". Being face to face with the word "gloom" (which, I agree, is indeed a very interesting translation, perhaps even better than "miasmas" would have been) for every occurrence of "shouki" would therefore be no different than being face to face with "shouki" for some Japanese players. I must go. Looking forward to your reply. Thanks!^^ Looking forward to discovering your next videos! Glad for you and for us that you enjoy these linguistic and cultural investigations! 🙏🏻

[@QuestWithAaron]

Absolutely! You raise an interesting point! Not every Japanese person is familiar with all the intricacies of "shouki." In fact, much of my research on the term was conducted in Japanese, and the articles I consulted were aimed at clarifying the depth and meanings of the term specifically for native speakers, with titles like "What exactly is shouki." I also find it incredibly fascinating that some first-time Japanese players I've observed actually mistake Breath of the Wild's malice for "shouki" the first time they encounter it. The dark, oppressive smoky substance that rises from malice undoubtedly mirrors that of "shouki," which would explain why they made that initial connection. Conversely, I've witnessed Japanese players recognise the dark smoke prevalent in Tears of the Kingdom's opening cutscene as "shouki" even before the game explicitly identifies it. In this way, you can easily see how the word is ingrained in Japanese differently than how "gloom" is in English.

[@WannaTasteLife]

@@QuestWithAaron So good to read this! Thanks for the elaborate reply! And I'm glad to see that Zelda helps Japanese players to dig into their own cultural heritage! Bye bye. Take care!

[@sylvanstrength7520]

The term gloom should’ve just been miasma. It really would’ve been a good fit. Shouki is directly translated as miasma in Inuyasha.

[@UltimateTobi]

So why could the MS defeat Demise's "shouki" and not Ganondorf's (initially)? Does that mean Ganondorf was more powerful than Demise?

[@chasethemaster3440]

Ig

[@doodledrew7039]

I would guess that just like the master sword bathed in sacred energy for millennia; Demise's curse, or Ganondorf, continues to accumulate shouki as he fails and reincarnates in perpetuity. Just a guess.

[@carljohansson3512]

In OOT, TP and ALTTP's backstory Ganondorf succeeded at something Demise failed at and obtained the Triforce thus becoming something Demise wasn't:A Daimaō(Great demon king/Great king of evil). In Tears of the kingdom Ganondorf has a lot more dark power than Demise had because he amplified his dark magic with Sonia's secret stone. When he gets the secret stone he changes it from a time stone into a dark stone and makes it grow in size.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

​​@@carljohansson3512 The Reason Demise failed is Because he went on a direct confrontation with the Gods and probably wiping out many of them, Hylia almost died during the Battle even and she only managed to seal him away and so she made plans for his complete destruction. Ganondorf on the other hand didnt directly confront the Hylians, he tried to gain their trust before overthrowing everything. And when he reached the Triforce, this time no God capable of Fighting Evil was there to stop him, the only thing that was in his way were mere humans. Demise couldnt do such a thing Because everyone knew he is the Origen of Evil, Ganondorf as a Human could easily hide his Evil Nature as a Human.

[@UltimateTobi]

@@carljohansson3512 And even *with* the Triforce of Power, the MS was able to smite him.

[@slateoffate9812]

Before starting the video, I remember comparing Malice and Gloom to a milk carton. I thought that Gloom is, metaphorically, the milk, and Malice is the gross, compact milk sludge at the bottom of the carton. Also, despite the Master Sword being the blade of evil's bane, I imagine it can only handle so much. It'd just burn away any small amount of gloom, but Ganondorf's attack was oversaturated with the stuff and overwhelmed the blade's tolerance. I actually have an idea for a plot point in a fanfic based on this. A version of Dark Link, made of Blight, a sort of compromise between the concepts of Malice and Gloom, would steal the Master Sword. Evil isn't supposed to be able to touch the blade, Link and Zelda can Dark Link's hand sizzle and boil away while holding the blade, but Dark Link doesn't even flinch, he's just THAT compact.

[@QuestWithAaron]

I would have loved to have seen some version of Dark Link in TotK!

[@Chris-gx1ei]

Ganondorf's Gloom is also literally so corrosive that even the bones of his monsters would break if Link tries to Reflect them like when he tries it with the Master Sword, literally every other weapon breaks inmediately, this is no suprise for me, but the fact that even Demon Bones can break against it is interesting

[@javiervasquez625]

Wonder if that would also happen with other "divine weapons" like the Four Sword, Great Fairy Sword, Infinity Sword, Phantom Sword, Lokomo Sword, Sword of the Sages, etc. I would assume some of these blades would be able to withstand Gloom given their shared history with the Master Sword as blades of divine origin.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

​​​​@@javiervasquez625 Yes they definitely would, you can literally get the Sword of the Sages and the Fierce Deity Sword ingame without Amiibos, and they both broke as I tested it. Ganon can literally become a Godkiller at this point

[@javiervasquez625]

@@Chris-gx1ei Mind you we don't know if all these blades are the real deal or fake _replicas_ which, considering the impossibility for the Infinity Sword to exist completley independent of Link wearing the Fierce Deity Mask, would take a lot of suspension of disbelief to assume all the many legendary blades wielded by past Heroes across the timeline would randomly end up in the possession of the Hero of the Wild without any in-Lore explanation whatsoever.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

​​@@javiervasquez625 The Sword of the Sages is described as the Real thing in its description, about the Fierce Deity Sword we cannot know whether it is the real weapon or not Because yeah, the Weapon can shoot Sword Beams but that's at the cost of Link's Magic, and the Fierce Deity Sword only seems to be as a slightly more powerful version of a regular Biggoron Sword from Ocarina of Time. And the reason most weapons end up in his posession is Because they were found by someone and hidden away. The Sword of the Sages got hidden in the Zonai Ruins northern of the Lost Woods. The Fierce Deity Sword got found by a Thief/Raider who loves to hide his treasures, especially the Fierce Deity Set was a Special one. The third ingame appearing Divine Weapon would be the Goddess Sword, which basically is the Pre-Master-Sword. This Sword can only be uptained and reuptained by the giant Goddess Statue in the Forgotten Temple and clearly is a replica

[@javiervasquez625]

@@Chris-gx1ei I know about the "thief" (who i assume you mean Misko) who conveniently left them all across the Depths without much context or explanation so i understand what you mean regarding how they ended up there. That said we simply don't know if all these swords and items are indeed meant to be the real ones from past games or just fake replicas given the lack of any evidence of them been real aside from an item description which for all we know is _lying_ about them just like the Hyrule Compendium when describing the "Light Dragon" as a "spirit" instead of Princess Zelda after she swallowed Rauru's Secret Stone. I simply don't see reason to believe what an item description says when the game itself has proven innacurate when giving descriptions which are simply not true.

[@zakzerak7191]

ur one of the best out there imo great vid

[@Gyashonav]

I find it odd that Ganon [in the Japanese version] would call his gloom the same thing Zelda refers to it as despite the one that is used by Zelda referring to the gassios and unconsetraded form wilst the one used by Ganon is more consetrated then btow's malice. By the way, I feel like there are better English words that can be used instead of gloom. Malice, of course, is already taken but they could have used it to prove a connect to btow's malice. Gloom just feels like it refers to a sad, rainy day and not pure distilled hatred that can quickly kill you. [Edit]- (accidentally pressed send) Miasma just sounds like "my asthma" which isn't exactly what you want Ganon to say. A word I have found that I think works (but will need to be looked up) is "Anathema", which means to be condemned by God but also refers to an extreme hatred twords someone or something.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

I think then the connection would have been too clear for Zelda and she would have went down there better prepared.

[@javiervasquez625]

@@Chris-gx1ei If by "better prepared" you mean in full mastery over the Triforce (the "Sealing Power) then there wouldn't have been a game for us to play and the final ressolution would have been a repeat of A Link to the Past with Zelda magically rebuilding the entire kingdom in a second while also reviving all the people murdered by this incarnation of Ganondorf (Rauru and Sonia included).

[@QuestWithAaron]

In order to withstand shouki you need an insane gas mask to filter out the pollution or you need to be strong and have an incredible amount of vitality. The two people resilient enough to be able to withstand it would without a doubt be Zelda and Link. If everyone went down together, they probably wouldnt make it very far before falling gravely sick. Ganondorf defintely had the location advantage, and him falling even deeper into the depths of the land when he rewakens is really an ingenius strategy. It's the safest place for him to recover. There would be no way anyone could ever get to him without collapsing, especially now that Link had been weakened. I absolutely agree that the term "gloom" doesn't have anywhere near the same level of impact. Perhaps the word "miasma" would have been a much better fit. That's what its called in the game files after all!

[@FunnyAnimatorJimTV]

This is a great, informative, dense video and your final theory makes a lot of sense - that Ganondorf's gloom (which came from the power of the secret stone) is able to sever the bonds between the world and otherwordly. That could be an explanation for why it was able to break the master sword. I'm curious what was your method for studying and understanding the japanese words in such an in-depth way (like 結び)

[@QuestWithAaron]

Thank you so much! The research stages are definitely the longest part of my video creation process as I want to make sure that the information I'm distributing is accurate - I implement a bunch of processes! From researching in Japanese, reading books and talking to Japanese people and Japanese monks. It's not a straightforward process to say the least, but I do immensely enjoy it and its an incredible feeling when everything comes together!

[@RyuuKageDesu]

Fascinating. It all tracks, honestly.

[@neo_b]

yo! a QuestwithAaron video!

[@theputnamto3468]

it all comes down to the processing power of the switch, their was alot less going on, onscreen in BotW so the malice was a 3d object, gloom is just paint on a surface gameplay wise they probably just wanted gloom/malice to be stronger because ganondorf vs calimity

[@anthonyaleman8963]

So what are demons in Japanese mythology? and how does that apply to Zelda?

[@QuestWithAaron]

That is an interesting question and one that I have explored to an extent in earlier videos! The concept of them in the most recent title is also something I'll be talking about in the next video which focuses Ganondorf in the Japanese text of TotK

[@anthonyaleman8963]

@@QuestWithAaronCould you also look into what it means to be evil in Japanese mythology since demons seem to be heavily associated with evil in just about every culture

[@QuestWithAaron]

A lot of it comes down to intensive desires, obsessions, greed and negligence - all of which are related to Buddhism. I'll be covering it in extensive detail in the next video for sure :)

[@anthonyaleman8963]

@@QuestWithAaron since you have covered now covered jaki and shoki, are there any other types of Ki that directly oppose them like a light/good to their dark/evil

[@anthonyaleman8963]

I guess in the health/positive aspect it would be genki (health), and in the more mental aspect it would be Yuki (courage) and shoki (right-mindedness), fun fact its not the same shoki as in gloom, and the yu in yuki is the same yu in yusha (hero).

[@aaaaaaaaaa190]

Watching this video opened my eyes! Lots of people think the Master Sword got weaker and suddenly lost its power to resist Ganon's Malice, but the original text shows that Shouki is much more powerful. I now apreciante more what was done to the Master Sword when you get it after it was recovered. It doesn't get stronger than it was in Breath of the Wild, but now her power can specifically opose the Demon King. In fact, the blade can't break during the fight, so that's a real improvement.

[@QuestWithAaron]

Glad you liked it! It was definitely more that the Master Sword simply lacked the power to resist "shouki" or gloom. This also explains why recall is used to send the Master Sword back in time, rather than to restore it straight away. Even if the blade was/could be restored via recall, it would immediately shatter again vs Ganondorf's power.

[@mcfloridaman2192]

All I wish is that ganondorf used his power more. I almost forgot ganondorf existed in totk because he doesn’t do anything until the beginning or end of the game. There are no stakes. It would have been cool to see him slowly start spreading gloom across the land. That would have given me a reason try and stop him because he doesn’t do anything until the end, and you have to initiate everything with him. A villain wouldn’t sit back and wait for the hero to come after them.

[@QuestWithAaron]

I agree, I would have liked to have seen more of him throughout the game.

[@tristanneal9552]

He does exactly that though? During the course of the game, Ganondorf: -Freezes Rito Village -Corrupts the water supply the Zora's need to live, nearly killing their King -Afflicts the Gorons with crippling addiction -Covers the entire Gerudo Desert in a sandstorm and raises the dead -Infects the Great Deku tree with his shoki -Spreads shoki filled roots throughout all of the depths of Hyrule, covering it in gloom and siphoning the energy of the land back to himself -Impersonates Zelda and attempts to destroy the people's image of her while sewing chaos throughout Hyrule and luring Link into a trap

[@mcfloridaman2192]

@@tristanneal9552 that is true, but the depths isn’t as much of a problem as the overworld.

[@QuestWithAaron]

Ganondorf's presence in TotK is great; he's the cause of so many environmental problems and phenomena just as you've mentioned. I thought they were amazing and I really enjoyed when we fought his phantom in Hyrule Castle, and of course every time the gloom hands appeared! I personally would love to see more kinds of those types of encounters throughout the game, especially in the depths Ganondorf's impact on the world is massive, I do appreciate the way they've developed his character and I truly can't wait to share more about what I've found in the JP text soon!

[@zeusthefox1585]

Malice/Gloom is Red. Created By Ganondorf/Calamity Ganon. Ancient Energy is Blue used by the Sheikah in there tech. And Zonai Energy/Life Energy is Green. And comes from Zonite which is mined from the earth. Somthing I've been thinking about is why Does Ganondorf use Gloom and Not Malice. Why did they specify two different forms of Evil Energy? My theory is because they have two different origins, both from Ganondorf's Body, but in different forms. Above Ganondorfs Mummy below the Castle was an upside down Pyramid called the Purifying Stone. Apparently this was being used to convert the Energy coming off of Rauru's Arm as it sucked the energy from Ganondorf to keep him frozen in place. What was the stone converting the energy into? Ancient Energy...sonthe Sheikah could use it to power there tech....but there was an unforeseen flaw. This conversion of Demon King energy into life Energy, and then into Ancient Energy also produced a By-product. Malice. This sentient Evil go over time builds and Builds...(seeing as there had been two Calamities since Ganondorfs Imprisoning I'd say every 5000 years)....Until It bursts forth as Calamity Ganon. With this in mind I don't think the Calamity Ganon from the first Calamity was the same one we face in Botw. There not a being...there just a Swirling storm of Malice By-product from the Sheikah tech constantly running for the last 10,000 years. Then in Totk all the Sheikah tech is gone...and what else is gone? Malice. Instead the Gloom has taken its place which is much more toxic and polite seeing as it was able to decay the Master sword. And is able to literally such the lifefprce out of someone unlike Malice which is just painful.

[@StartouchArts]

To me, Gloom is a tempered and focused version of Malice. Calamity Ganon uses the same dark power, but because Ganon is a mere mindless beast driven by pure instinct, its power manifests as Malice, lashing out and quickly slaughtering anything it touches because Calamity Ganon wants everything to die. But when Ganondorf is revived, he is able to control this power and refine it into Gloom. Ganondorf WANTS all who dare appose him to hurt because 'Dorf wants to rule Hyrule not destroy it, which is why it damages Link at a slower pace and can break his hearts; it's designed to make others suffer, but Malice's uncontrolled nature just kills as fast as possible.

[@a.jthomas6132]

Is there more in depth character to Ganondorf in the Japanese version of Tears of the Kingdom?

[@QuestWithAaron]

There's certainly some stuff I am really excited to talk about! The next video I'm making is dedicated to that very topic ^^

[@a.jthomas6132]

@@QuestWithAaron Many thanks I really appreciate it. And I hope his surrogate mothers Kotake, Koume, and Twinrova are in it as well.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

In the Japanese Version (and also in the German Version) Ganondorf tells aber a time in which the World was actually shrouded in darkness until the Zonai came with their sacred Light. And wherever you once looked was war and violence. Ganon is apparently referring to a Time during his life in which Demons, Chaos and War was dominating the land of Hyrule, then came the Zonai and bring their in his eyes "disgusting/stupid Peace and their shameful Light" By Analysing this we can say some things about Ganondorf's Character. In his worldview is only Power in the focus and he seeme to be a Mighty Warrior that finds his pleasure in combat and blood spilling, and since there was no ruler before he was always free to do what he wants, then the furry gods came and ruined everything for him apparently

[@a.jthomas6132]

@@Chris-gx1ei How come this wasn’t incorporated into the English version?

[@HouseHawk62]

@@a.jthomas6132 I’m only guessing here but they probably thought it wouldn’t fly over with English/western sensibilities so it would be easier to just keep it simple and go with “Ganon bad, stop him” which is dumb and sucks.

[@Arv_2011]

If in skyward sword ▬▬ι═══════ﺤ demise was kept in the master Sword and in totk it was broken, that might mean in the next game, it might be a resurrection of demise

[@QuestWithAaron]

I'm actually making a short video that will go up soon discussing what exactly is happening when Demise gets absorbed into the Master Sword

[@siraaron4462]

I'm sorry but you tried to cover way too much ground in this video and as much as I learned about shouki i still dont know what makes it different from onen in the world of LOZ

[@dargossss]

I agree, the narration is non-stop, maybe dividing the video into 2 would be more efficient. I'm gonna have to watch it again to catch everthing.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

Onnen drives Phantoms to Madness (it can cause physical damage in Breath of the wild, yet only to mortals apparently), Shouki causes severe sickness that cannot be cured with regular medicine Onnen is basically meant to represent spiritual destruction (literally tearing your life energy and soul out of your body) while Shouki should represent Physical Destruction mainly, not only with a terrilble illness but also by completely decomposing living tissue and other Materials, That's the only difference I see

[@spacejay2677]

6:31 it seems that onnen or malice is the energy of hatred, whereas shouki is like a toxic physical air that depletes one's vitality.

[@siraaron4462]

​@@spacejay2677BOTW's malace (onen) seems pretty literal and physical to me. And gloom can form in puddles. Plus my read is the bad air can either be real air or just bad vibes. The words have different meanings in Japanese (the same way gloom and malace have different meanings in English) but the way Aaron describes them they have a lot of overlapping properties, so we're back to square 1 that in game they're more same than different or why the devs thought a new word was necessary

[@spacejay2677]

@@siraaron4462 i was talking about the meaning of the words outside of the context of zelda, obviously malice is a physical substance in the game too. was talking about the irl concepts.

[@Jormunguandr]

Two names for ganondorfs hazardous bodily fluids. 😂

[@xinpingdonohoe3978]

Three if you count the most watered down version, Sludge.

[@anthonyaleman8963]

We can compare gloom and malice with evil Ki in Dragonball and cursed energy in Jujutsu Kaisen.

[@anthonyaleman8963]

Evil Ki is a form of Ki that is formed by an evil heart and it is shown to have the property to destroy a heavenly object (flying nimbus), cursing the souls of victims of the mazoku to become restless and decaying the environment even polluting water and air, and draining the energy and strength of people.

[@anthonyaleman8963]

Cursed energy is born from negative emotions and is radiated from human beings because they harbor negative emotions and when cursed energy settles in one place it can result in entities called cursed spirits who bring misfortune to humanity.

[@anthonyaleman8963]

Gloom/shouki represents spiritual pollution and its power is to literally spread pollution and destruction just like evil Ki, evil Ki is the translation of jyaki and the Ki in jyaki and Skouki are the same and carries the implication that they are a corrupt form of Ki (life force of all things).

[@anthonyaleman8963]

Malice radiates from ganondorf’s body because he harbors hatred and calamity ganon is the result of that just like cursed energy and spirits.

[@anthonyaleman8963]

And the reason they share such similarities is because they originate from similar sources (evil heart/negative emotions).

[@FunnyAnimatorJimTV]

I hate the design choices of Gloom because of the name, and also the sound it makes (like when it damages you). Both are so silly and could be much scarier. Also the malice in botw was more lively and threatening than the gloom which is just painted on the ground

[@andrewmarin3941]

What is that thing at 20:16 , and where can I find it? Also, is that TOTK or BOTW?

[@QuestWithAaron]

It's from BotW when you visit Naydra at the Spring of Wisdom for the first time

[@trashcatlinol]

So, i'm disappointed they didn't call gloom grudge. I mean come on, rhymes with sludge, looks like sludge..... might fit yhe description of malice better, but still. Grudge hands? Still frightening.

[@trashcatlinol]

''A blade that shatters against my grudge....''

[@stuffz1757]

...this makes me feel like the whole refounding theory is even dumber tbh. For one having a Kami who founded your kingdom and developed a Musubi, not know about a previous kingdom or any Kingdom ending catastrophe, only to then have all of that knowledge and information about said past kingdom become second nature later on in the new kingdom is basically lore breaking, and for two I can't fathom how Ganondorf in TotK is supposed to be the source of Calamity Ganon. BOTW and Creating a Champion make the connection between OOT Ganondorf and Calamity Ganon as clear as day, and Rauru's seal is effectively meaningless if Calamity Ganon can just causally keep coming back, the clear and constant differences between Gloom and Malice also signify that they both are using different substances to do what they do. Also everything about Ganondorf in TotK feels like a perfect, early Hyrule, followup to Demise, including the fact that he managed to break the Musubi between the Hylians and God's tribe, and fullfil part of Demise's wishes, it doesn't feel like or seem like it should be something that happens hundreds of thousands of years after the rest of the series, neither does the inherent magical capabilities of the Ancinet Hylians which is often a plot point across many Zelda games as being an element that existed almost exclusively in the early timeline. Also "Rauru" in TotK shares far too many similarities between Rauru in OOT, so much so it can't be ignored. Both: -Existed near a founding of Hyrule. -both have intricate connections to owls. -both existed in a period where Death Mountain had smoke rings, only one period on the timeline has that. -both are described as having extremely powerful sealing powers. -both existed around a period when Kotake and Koume should be young. -both have a connection to Hylia, a Temple of Time, and the Triforce. -Both literally had to know about and interact with the same Giant Hylia Statue. -Both are sages of light. -both have white hair and blue eyes. Moreover, Skyward Sword established that Kami or gods can't use the Triforce, OOT and the two lore books established that OOT Rauru somehow moved the Triforce from wherever it was in the Sacred Realm, to the Temple of Light, and this human somehow did this without it splitting despite it being a constant element of the series lore that even trying to touch the thing without a balanced heart will split it. Now conveniently here comes TotK with a Kami sage of light Zonai, who shouldnt be able to use the Triforce yet knows about it...named Rauru. It's too coincidental.

[@carljohansson3512]

In TP Hyrule was founded by the ancestors of the Hylians(the Oocca/sky folk in Japanese)who left the kingdom in the hands of the Hylians before settling on their new city in the sky, their architecture and technology can be found in the Temple of time and Hyrule castle. This architecture and technology doesn't resemble what the Zonai have. In an interview Fujibayashi talked about how it was possible that Hyrule could have been refounded after a destruction. The books are written by Shogakukan and Nintendo DREAM with the Zelda team barely doing any work. The books are subjective too and only the dev notes and interviews mean anything. The books contain errors and contradictions and are always ignored and contradicted by the games. The devs have said in interviews that the timeline is up to the player to decipher. In BOTW there isn't anything that confirms that Calamity Ganon originates from OOT Ganondorf, there are just stories that are similar(In TOTK Ganondorf's origin is very similar to OOT Ganondorf's origin with a few differences that don't contradict what we hear in BOTW). The Zora stone monuments talk about an evil man that Ruto fought against but doesn't connect him to Calamity Ganon. In TOTK Impa says that Calamity Ganon is a manifestation of an ancient demon king's hatred and grudge. Calamity Ganon is emotions taking physical form. According to a stone plaque underneath Hyrule castle and Ganondorf's character profile Hyrule castle was built to strengthen Rauru's seal but when if the castle should be damaged or fall then the seal will eventually break. There is no evidence that another castle was rebuilt over it and if Rauru's era is pre-OOT then TOTK Ganondorf should have returned when OOT Ganondorf destroyed the castle. Just like in TOTK Ganondorf is easily able to shoot the castle up into the sky from the depths beneath it once he's free. Many clothes, weapons and armor from multiple different Zelda games are found in the depths inside of Zonai chests, while some could be replicas or the same exact thing from the game it appeared in they could also have been summoned through the use of an Amiibo rune. The evil spirit armor is found in the depths labyrinths and references OOT's phantom Ganon. Gerudo ears are pointy(which symbolizes a connection to the kami) in TOTK’s past with Ganondorf being the only one with round ears. Hyrule's history is often repeating itself and the series is full of coincidences.

[@stuffz1757]

@@carljohansson3512 Shad mentions that the Oocca possibly created Hyrule, he never specified if he's talking about "Hyrule the Kingdom" or "Hyrule the Land" as the kingdom and land share the same name, similar to how we have "North America" and the "United States of America." It's highly unlikely the Oocca founded the Kingdom, as I doubt you or anyone else believe the Oocca are part of the Royal Family, and even if you did that would heavily contradict Skyward Sword and its story about Hylia reincarnating into Zelda and starting the Royal lineage. Thus the Oocca are similar to the Native Americans or Christopher Columbus while Rauru and Sonia would be basically George Washington. Fujibayashi mentioned it was only a possibility that Hyrule was destroyed before the memories, but didn't specify if he meant Hyrule the land or Hyrule the Kingdom. The interviewer was erroneously under the assumption that the events of Skyward Sword immediately lead into founding the kingdom, but it doesn't, it leads into the long ass period of war and destruction where people nearly destroy each other over the Triforce known as the Era of Chaos, a period which could have easily destroyed any previous major surface settlements through the shear carnage on display. The plaque in Hyrule Castle mentions that IF the castle wasn't in place the seal COULD be damaged, the character profile mentions that the seal was damaged when the castle was damaged. It's a lapse in logic to immediately assume that any damage or change to the Castle immediately damages or harms the seal when that's clearly not what the game is implying or saying. Let me ask you this tho, across the whole of the time period from the founding we see to the present do you really believe the castle was never remodeled, never reworked, never added onto? Even if you do you're wrong, we know it must have been because we know the Ancinet Sheikah built the giant guardian pillars around it and we know they built the Astral Observatory underneath the throne room. If touching or moving a single brick broke the seal then the Sheikah would've broke it, so it must be that there's something within the castle or, hint hint, underneath the castle that is pivotal to maintaining the seal, and the actual structure only exists to guard said thing. I wonder what that could be, could it possibly be the giant 1300+ meter long purification unit which we see actually sucking up gloom out of Ganondorf before his seal breaks? I don't know maybe. I mean said purification unit ends right before the Astral Observatory starts and it would logically track that if Calamity Ganon was able to gain control of said Observatory like all other Sheikah tech, he could theoretically shut down the gloom purifying capabilities and thus break the seal, but no, clearly what broke the seal wasn't the very obvious giant pillar that extends down to the Sealing Chamber, it's the structure of the Castle itself being damaged even though the structure isn't connected at all to the Sealing Chamber. Also I've done the math, the pit in OOT, would end roughly right above where the Purification unit should end, meaning it wouldn't have broken the seal in OOT, if anything the Purification unit would be pumping out endless purified gloom, turning it into pure force, and Ganondorfs Jyaki or his evil influence as it was mentioned in this video would be tainting that force...which hey guess what that would lead to exactly what we see see in OOT, a evil dark substance bubbling up from underneath the ground. The books are canon, and even if you want to ignore them they're the source of the claims that the Gerudo ears changed over time as there's no statement about their ear shape in BOTW. Moreover tho if the presence of the Kami and their influence caused the ears to change than the lack of the Kami and the decision to follow TotK Ganondorf and later OOT Ganondorf should logically cause their ears to change to rounded ears. Regardless we know via Skyward Sword all humans including Gerudo must have pointed ears in their ancestry. In what universe is there nothing in game about Calamity Ganon being OOT Ganondorf? Half of the plot of BOTW is about Calamity Ganons Malice towards the Hero and Princess, half of the story is about the constant battle between the three, the stones around the Master Sword are based on the OOT sages, the Divine Beasts are named after the OOT sages, the monks in the Trial of the Sword mimick the poses of the OOT sages. The whole explanation of Ganons history and how he's know by the present day of Hyrule is basically: Ganondorf, a Gerudo man becomes dark beast Ganon, he is defeated by a Princess and Hero, and a person named Ruto. (This cannot be TotK Ganondorf or the memories.) | A constant cycle of battles between GANON, and the Hero/Princess transpire. | Hyrule becomes advanced and the Sheikah build the tech to combat Calamity Ganon. | 10K Calamity happens | Long period of time. | BOTW backstory than BOTW/TotK. This is the whole sum of the history of Hyrule that is known in the present day, this is both in game and in Creating a Champion. Thus when TotK comes along a d establishes that there's other history that Zelda knew and that Hyrule knew of a people named the Zonai who existed in the time of "EARLIEST LEGEND" it would track that this earliest legend, that coincides with the founding of a kingdom, said Kingdom who's history included the events of OOT, should be before OOT, not after. The Depths and Skies were never shut off from being accessed, and we know the Ancient Sheikah must have known about the depths at least because several of their towers must have reached down into them, as the holes in desert never shut and have presumably always existed and always lead to the depths. Thus anyone could have put those armor pieces down there, the chest also can be kicked open so it's not like they need a Zonai member to open them. Moreover the more barbaric Zonai architecture likewise had to have come after the memories not before, as we know Typhlo ruins was built by Hylians in honor of Rauru and we can see in Faron that a lot of the Ancinet Zonai architecture was intentionally covered up by the more barbaric style. The Labyrinths are all also made of this barbaric architecture. Even if you aren't satisfied with this however keep in mind that the game implies the Ancinet Zonai like Hero was the Hero from the calamity in the backstory of BOTW, so at least one of the Zonai members existed far far far past the memories and could've been the one to seal away the Phantom Ganon armor and also place all of the hero armor in the depths. On the note of the past games weapons and armor tho only two of them don't appear in the depths and that's the Dusk Claymore and Bow. The Dusk Claymore is said to have been handed down to the Royal Family long ago and was stored in the Sage Temple ruins untill eventually at some point being moved to Typhlo Ruins. The Dusk Bow is said to have "BEEN IN THE ROYAL FAMILY FOR AGES" and with it it carries the legend of the Princess who used it to battle Twilight beasts, none of this makes sense if Hyrule was somehow wiped off the face of the earth by some unknown unseen mega catastrophe. EDIT: Also let's talk Jyaki and Musubi for a second. The greatest most pivotal moment of Jyaki within Hyrules history would be the Era of Chaos where the greed of man would have turned the world against itself. Narratively the best and most pivotal moment for a Musubi to form between the Hylians and Zonai, and the period that would make the most sense narratively to house that moment of Musubi would be the Sealing of the Sacred Realm, as Hyrule Kingdom and by extension the world could not continue to exist if the lust of the Triforce continued to lead people astray, and if anything would make Rauru worthy of being King it would be him officially ending the Era of Chaos for good.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

Since Kami are mostly Absent in the World of Hyrule with a few exceptions of a few smaller ones like the small fairies or the Koroks maybe, or the Guardian Kamis such as the Deku Tree and since Kami actually CAN die/perrish in the Japanese Mythologies similar to the Asgardian Gods in Scandinavian Myth, I assume that the Zonai are just a new Generation of Kami since it is said that they are Descendants of them. Japanese Kami just like most Gods are not Allmighity, allknowing and especially not Omnipresent, so maybe knowledge about a Kingdom got lost or Was never told to them in the First Place.

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

Oocca ABSOLUTELY are related to Hylians, probably by birth but definitely culturally if they somehow colonized the living space of Loftwings. We see it many times that avian features that are also connected to Zora, who are royal retainers, are separable and enhanceable, from Zora's scales to Valoo's. It's hard to say how Majora's Mask falls into the overall realm, but Stone Tower temple, with many similarities to City in the Sky and exact stone patterns repeating in Arbiter's Grounds and floating islands in TotK, has that one turn-around flipping gimmick. There we can see the main temple canopy repeat two patterns, Majora's Mask AND the Owl pendant of the Zonai. This is certainly a precursor to the idea of Sheikah and Yiga symbols, while Yiga secretly DO worship or are jealous of the Dragons if you look at their mask ornaments, their whiskers. This is of course ill-defined and Nintendo didn't clean it up to form a coherent connection. But that is where they MAKE those connections, across all these games. Where they DON'T make the same connection is Gerudo legacy, showing that THOSE are clearly an antagonist to that shadowy cohort between Hyrule's Sheikah operations and this whole web. My read on this is, number one thing: Hylians are one people. No matter their appearence, they can go in an out of features by magical means, likeattaining scales to swim deeper and inhabit the waters, or fyl higher with a fetaher charm. This is also the origin of pointy ears, and Oocca are a remnant of a civiliaztion that became entirely detached, like Voldemort's pitiful horcrux. The changing of their sahp is no different than losing dental care fora thousand of years, adn your own shiny whites are CULTURAL, not part of you natural phenotype. Magic in Zelda works the same way, and it has an energy cost too like the repecussions of nuclear Shaikah tech energy. That energy is bound to time itself, and that's how Sheikah arrows send enemies into entirely different time or dimension when they erupt and implode. It is reverting the SAME mysterious method by which Ganon BRINGS monsters into this realm, which was also explored in Twiligh Realm's shadow beasts, and people turning into a reflection of their true heart in ALttP.

[@carljohansson3512]

@@stuffz1757 Ignorance and a dismissive attitude eh? Pathetic... I am only willing to continue this discussion at the Zelda universe discord. There are people there who are more knowledgeable than I about the Lore and the Japanese text. Sure refoundation has some flaws but you shouldn't dismiss everything that supports it. You also appear to have the same ridiculous devotion to the books as the Truezelda redditors have even though their canonicity means nothing. Anything the books say mean less than what the devs say and what the devs say means less than what the games say. The books even say that they are merely suggestive interpretations by writers at Shogakukan, Ambit and Nintendo DREAM with a stamp of approval. Only the dev/designer notes can be considered accurate but some of it doesn't reflect the final product. Parts of the books are made up stuff that very likely contradicts what the games say or will be contradicted in the future, the other part is what the games literally say and dev/designer notes which hold more weight. What Shad and Rusl say is later validated by Oocca and the temple of time, according to Rusl the temple was built by the ancestors of the Hylians, Occoo later says that the technology of her ancestors is inside the temple, the temple has depictions of humans wielding the dominion rod, in Skyward sword the humans are never called Hylians as the Hylian culture only came into existence later on, there are races in the series that have gone through a transformation because of a kami. From what we hear and see in TP the Occaa were on the surface and founded kingdom before leaving the kingdom in the hands of their descendants and settling in their new city in the sky, one group of humans split into two. TP's Hyrule castle's central tower uses Sky folk technology. In BOTW the evil man in Ruto's story isn't confirmed to be Calamity Ganon's origin, Urbosa's story doesn't say that Nabooru fought against Calamity Ganon's origin, Rhoam's story only says that there was a demon king born in ancient times. Hyrule is cyclical in nature. Multiple different people in the series share the same name.

[@NigelThrashner]

Yum, musubi 🤤

[@zakzerak7191]

is there any explanation ingame for ganondorf being a tree?

[@Chris-gx1ei]

Why a Tree? He is a Rotten Corpse

[@QuestWithAaron]

Do you mean where he's found in Glooms Lair?

[@zakzerak7191]

@@QuestWithAaron when we go downthere he is the center of a treelike miasma structure that spreads through the whole depths. when we go on it it causes link miasma dmg and the animation suggests that his roots suck energy or maybe souls into himself to get his form back. i think its interesting how its designed and imo it looks like roots. but from what i can tell its nowhere ingame mentioned and imo its a really big thing that isnt talked about.

[@gameslayer420]

🍻

[@chasethemaster3440]

First

[@spartanq7781]

Tears of The Kingdom is just a palette swap of Breath of The Wild which quickly killed any desire to even continue the game.

[@Chris-gx1ei]

My desire didnt get killed, I always went on with curiosity about how much the world changed in my first Playthrough. Of course I didnt do 100% Because I knew the Koroks would do the same Shit-Quest-Thing and so on, but overall I saw how much effort Nintendo actually put in the game to make it seem so new, new quests, a few new characters, small New Structures new Plot and so on. Nintendo could have been lazy and just Thanos-Snapped Hyrule's unimportant NPCs, but they actually Took their time with Sidequests and Dialogues

[@spartanq7781]

@@Chris-gx1ei I'm talking about me. Ok you liked it good for you.

[@QuestWithAaron]

I see where you're coming from. I personally enjoyed my first playthrough of TotK, although I do wish there were some more new actual towns (maybe in the sky or depths) to explore

[@spartanq7781]

@@QuestWithAaron It's far from my only problem. I already didn't care for Breath of The Wild and feel this game didn't do anything to interest me because of you know the palette swap issue I mentioned. I miss the old games. No it's not just the dungeons. People act like that's the only problem but I'm not in the mood to get into that now.

[@Gensei-Kihara]

when i first encountered mummy ganon, i was like "ok gloomer"... when i saw rehydrated ganon, i was like "give him to meee, aeuuhh!" 🥵🦦