Quinfall - The Largest MMORPG Fail of 2024(so far)

[@micheljolicoeur6094]

The biggest RED flag is that purchases MUST be done on their website and then they will mail you a Steam key, as such there is ZERO protection as even the Steam refund policy is NULL since you never bought the game on Steam.

[@ferdinand12390]

ok, now that IS SHADY

[@iHaveTheDocuments]

This is the biggest red flag

[@Pravculear]

yeah, that's one way of making sure i don't spend money on the game.

[@sirnirvikingur]

Also photoshoping theyre office thing was also a red flag, shows they are dishonest.

[@xbon1]

You have a safeguard, if the game doesn't follow the law in what it promises, you can get your money back.

[@DungeonDragon18]

I think the reason store bought assets are a red flag in some cases but not others is that it's a sign of a low budget. If a game is being upfront about being low budget, like it's a small scope passion project by a single developer, then it's fine if they use store bought assets. But a serious, high budget game is going to pay for custom artwork, so if a game claiming to be serious and high budget but the trailers/demos are using bought assets, it's a sign they're lying about how much effort and competence is going into the game.

[@bobbobber4810]

And for making a MMORPG, you need to have a lot of money. Specially if it is supposed to be the "largest" one ever. So store bough assets are a HUGE flag on a mmorpg.

[@DimensionDoorTeam]

I totally agree, but at the same time, they heavily modified their assets, not just slapped them into the game in their raw form.

[@Kingsman4101]

Not just low budget but also low effort....

[@notatrollll]

Yeah plasmaphobia was never going to be a massive mmorpg (biggest ever!) like clearly this game IS an asset flip and should be criticized as such

[@notatrollll]

@@DimensionDoorTeamthen why are there hundreds of examples of one to one animations or models? You do know “the day before” modified assets too? It was done more to HIDE the assets they bought instead of being transparent

[@DenizOpal-s4p]

Hey Kira, I enjoy your work. I just wanted to fill in some information regarding MMOs in Turkey. The reason Knight Online is so popular in the Turkish market is because the way games were played there. In the 90s it wasn't very common for kids to have gaming PCs or consoles, but internet cafes would have some barely passable gaming PCs, they would install multiplayer games like Counter Strike, and it was a community event for kids to get together in the internet cafe and play games. Around this time, Korean game Knight Online had set up a presence in the US to take on World Of Warcraft. The game was a much lower spec and was failing to make an impact. However, Turkish internet cafes had started installing it because the lower spec meant it was fine on their low spec gaming PCs. Also, the internet cafes provided another service to the players, the kids playing the games couldn't use credit cards, so they would pay cash at the desk, and an employee would facilitate the purchase of an in game item, meaning children could buy things within the game as easily as buying sweets. An employee at the Knight Online US team, Sean Lee, thought the Turkish market was the strongest prospect for the game, and a acquired the rights to publish the game in Turkey, he set up NTT games in Istanbul, reached out to internet cafes to further promote the game, and pretty soon Knight Online's biggest user base was in Turkey. Today Sean Lee has acquired most of the worldwide rights to Knight Online, including the US and Europe, and he is still based out of Istanbul.

[@Lenariet]

Interesting. Thanks.

[@artwithlavi206]

Regarding assets, in my opinion if a game dev team is limited enough that they require assets BUT paradoxically also insisting that they will be able to produce something huge in scope...that's an instant red flag. A small team that uses assets AND maintains a tight scope actually has a fighting chance of producing good game. It isn't the assets, it's what is done with them.

[@MadameCirce]

Completely agreed with your opinion about "asset flips" and glad you brought up Phasmophobia as an example of a great game that used all store-bought assets. The original House Flipper is another good example and there are plenty of others. But I think the difference between a Quinfall and a Phasmophobia is the scale of the game and the presentation/sales pitch. Asset use in a small indie game with a unique gameplay loop is one thing, but claiming you've made the largest most innovative MMORPG and hiding the fact that that you're using assets is another. Huge red flag any time someone starts touting their game as the next big thing to revolutionize the genre and it's found they don't have a big enough team to even make their own assets. And it's kind of funny, because Phasmophobia and House Flipper both were revolutionary and basically created entire genres with copycats to follow, but they never set out to do that or CLAIMED to be doing that before release. They were just little games that got massive support because they were great at what they did.

[@bernhardlabus8511]

I think especially with first releases store bought assets are absolutely okay. If the studio makes its first MMO and doesn't have the funds to hire artists for everything... go for it. So I don't think scale works in favor of your argument, more like the other way around, would be that much more expensive and therefore is that much harder to finance upfront by the studio. They can always sell that mmo and use the money from the sales if its doing well to expand the team and get actual artists on payroll, further improving the game. I don't see any issues with that. That being said: Quinfall seemingly being 99% assets without any form of statement from the devs that they cant afford artists at that date etc does absolutely make it seem like a scam. Especially nowadays where assetflip scams are everywhere. And yeah as you said, those kind of scams always say they wanna do everything better than anyone else, which is the biggest red flag ever. Noone can just bring out a game that is better in any aspect. Never worked, never will. They can do certain things much better than others or kickstart a new genre by being different. Doesn't mean they're better or worse. Like I'd never buy a houseflipper game. Just not my cup of tea. Doesn't mean those games are bad, just not for me. Claiming to be able to make a game thats perfect for everyone is either massively delusional or straight up a scam.

[@marckhachfe1238]

Is also agree and think it's just ridiculous that kira even had to say it

[@MadameCirce]

@@bernhardlabus8511 I still think scale is an important factor because you can't claim to be on par with a AAA title (or in some cases even try to claim you actually are AAA!) while not making any assets in house. That's what we've seen with The Day Before and now Quinfall. It truly is a red flag when a game is hyping themselves up as such a massive project and then you see they are copying and pasting cheap assets from the store.

[@bernhardlabus8511]

@@MadameCirce Well thats not really scale though imo. AAA is more quality and experience than scale. Runescape is massive in size, definetely not an AAA game from an AAA studio though. Would anyone care if runescape was all assets? No, cause they made a good game anyways. So yeah, the red flag here is the advertisement as I wrote above.

[@MadameCirce]

@@bernhardlabus8511 AAA refers to budget and company size, not quality and experience. Quality and experience tends to be heightened due to said large budget but not always. I really don't see how anyone can say AAA isnt about the scale of a project. And it's a ridiculous notion that a project of that magnitude wouldn't be able to afford in-house artists.

[@TheGrimGary]

Asset Flip Section. Group 3 : People who don't care about bought assets if they go well with the overall style, and the author doesn't try to lie about bought assets or try to pass them off as their own hard work somehow.

[@Person01234]

This. This is actually the second "larger" group. It's not about quantity, it's about how they're used. If they're used as a lazy crutch so the developer doesn't have to do any work then they're bad, if they're used because they are well considered with the context of the game and allow the developer to put their time and talents elsewhere in the game then great. Same thing can be said about many game development tools.

[@CainXVII]

Agreed. If it looks good and everyone got credit and paid, then assets are there to be used.

[@notatrollll]

@@Person01234if its used for small slices of “gameplay” to fake that the game is done, yeah

[@the_disco_option]

I only have a problem with assets when your marketing material is just screenshots of assets and not actually showcasing what you're using the assets for. e.g. showing a premade dungeon asset vs showing a party of players fighting enemies in said dungeon made using that tileset.

[@zh84]

"saying you need to pay to get into the beta" - I read the adage "never pay to be a beta tester" thirty and more years ago. Edit: at the time you warned us that your kittens were fighting, my cat was on my lap purring and treading on my arm and getting strokes. Please give each of your kittens a kiss from me.

[@CainXVII]

And my kitty is sleeping right next to me :)

[@oliver_twistor]

I like your take on the use of store-bought assets. I have no problem with developers using them. I have played many games that exclusively make use of store-bought and free assets, because the developer is a programmer, not an artist. My definition of an asset flip is when the assets are mismatched and the developer doesn't care, because I feel if not even the devs care about their game, why should I? What I mean is if the game takes place in a medieval town in France, and behind a hamlet there is a bright, red and shiny Ferrari; or inside the dining room in a house, three or four chairs are in dark wood and of normal size, but the fourth is in reflective pink plastic and is twice as large.

[@toomanyaccounts]

asset flip came about when scammers flipped the included game in asset pack and sold it as if they created it

[@Khalith]

Kira how can you deny us quality content? You have kittens and haven’t made any videos with them? We need kitten videos yesterday.

[@sernis2396]

This

[@cerebralisk]

to me i think the core difference between a game using assets and an asset flip is that a true asset flip barely even contains a game to speak of, to the point of often being a stock game from the store as well

[@bernhardlabus8511]

That we cannot judge yet at all, but doesn't sound/ look good so far.

[@nyyfandan]

My opinion on pre-made assets really depends on what's the thing being pre-made. I couldn't care less if something like a cow or a tree is pre-made. But if you can't even take the time to create an original asset for the player avatar, main characters, story significant locations, etc, that's definitely a red flag.

[@swordswinger5]

Please put the Nuion video in the description or comments, wanted to watch it after this one!

[@toomanyaccounts]

you could search for "The Quinfail - How this game might not exist." the vid is ten months old

[@NoobBlx]

Chronicles of Elyria walked so Quinfall could run

[@Elysiumlost]

I have no issue with assets being used. I have an issue with the trailer and marketing material just showcasing the assets and nothing else. If you’re using the assets, then the gameplay needs to shine through. For example, Only Up isn’t about the assets really, it’s about the challenge and jumping puzzles.

[@Astar24653]

"he said he made one thousand games" ah so the tommy tallarico method

[@Carnyzzle]

The Viper the Rapper strategy of releasing a game every day lol

[@TheImpossiBelle]

i hear his mother is very proud

[@azalea_k]

It's sad, but a lot of videos such as this need to explain to some, how bought assets are not the be-all and end-all of legitimacy, or the lack thereof. Obviously knowing that is a good thing, when making a balanced assessment of a game. Good stuff 👍

[@Speederzzz]

There must be a great opportunity for a parody house flipper game called "Asset Flipper"

[@4.1132]

Fun fact: Quinfall and the studio Vawraek are trademarked, however they’re not trademarked for the Nice class 41, which is the one that includes online games (they did register in class 9, which software related, but that one is a bit different and almost every online game is registered under 41). Oddly enough they did register for protection in class 25, which related to clothes. There’s also some things with the logos that are just weird (not a lawyer just someone who had to study trademarks for FTO in design, so maybe someone that knows a little more could explain it, I personally can’t recall ever having seen something like that).

[@OgOssman]

The whole assest thing is this, it's so easy to buy a assest and then change it, like color or little details, but these type of devs won't even bother to do that. Like assests should be used as a base that you then change to make it vibe with your art style.

[@TenShine1productions]

I'm working on a game that has used UE assets. There is nothing wrong with using asset packs. Not everyone is a modeller and can make their own assets Asset flip is literally taking a premade map and just using it as is for a game map.

[@sayLeotardbutsayitChinese]

As someone who does do some 3d modeling (just as a hobbyist, but still), most projects I do start with a premade base mesh anyway. They have to start with something, even if it's just a cube. For me, it really comes down to this: at what point do we call a creation truly "home made"? Should I make all my own assets? Should I learn how to model, sculpt, and animate myself? So then should I learn how to make concept art too? And I should never use ai? Or if I do, should I build it myself? And along those lines, should I build the 3d modeling software myself? Or a whole new game engine? Should I build a computer out of raw materials as well? The whole thing is silly. Everything we do in the modern age--especially making games--is entirely thanks to the efforts of a billion people before us. So use what they've given us, because there's no point in going the long way unless it's the better way too. Just follow the golden rule of entertainment: entertain. Make it good, and nobody will care where the parts come from.

[@raafmaat]

watch the full thing before commenting LOL this gets explained very thoroughly! he states multiple times that using asset packs is totally fine! even smash hits like phantasmophorbia were big asset users! kira actually makes sure to tell you at least 3 times that using assets is not bad by itself!

[@TenShine1productions]

@@raafmaat I did. I was adding my opinion

[@raafmaat]

@@TenShine1productions it sounded like you didnt, like you thought kira was all opposed to any assets being used so you had to explain why assets can be good

[@TenShine1productions]

@@raafmaat nah he's spot on about assets

[@frankiecoss7141]

6:11 I just realized that those gamersupps sample packets look like condom wrappers...

[@vantasethatsit9903]

my problem with using asset is when the game is supposedly big like mmo, in game like Phasmophobia if the developer want to add to the game they can just add one map and one ghost and be done with it, while mmo they have to add more character, item, equipment and enemies, if it was small game they just have to find or make a couple new asset for an update, while big game need hundreds of new asset, if they can't make the current asset do you think they can make hundreds of new one? or can they just magically find hundreds of assets that are in line with their current state of the game?

[@Warlock8ZERO]

I don't think most people have a problem with using assets at all, the problem lies with how they are used. Quinfall is actually a perfect example of this, no one cared at all when they didn't know about the asset situation, and many people said the graphics looked amazing, the problem starts when all your game consists of, is assets, with no mechanics built underneath at all, or is just a buggy mess. If Quinfall had any skill trees, crafting, boss mechanics, anything that shows they had made anything themselves really, then there wouldn't be a problem, but how are they going to release new updates/content or even have a fun gameplay loop to start with when they can't even make basic game systems.

[@allthatishere]

This game looked sus from the first time I saw it 2 months ago. Everything looks and feel out of place, like it doesn't have a united artstyle. And lo and behold, the reason I felt this way is clearly because it's made up of random asset packs thrown together.

[@fudalefu1]

Assets are not a red flag. Low budget and high budget games will use assets, without sacrificing the uniqueness of the game or quality. Assets are supposed to be used. Games having the same model tree won’t affect gameplay, or make them feel similar z

[@S0ulGh0st]

Vampire Survivors started with mostly pre-made assets but then they worked a lot on it and now the game is freaking good.

[@chinchilla6547]

The red flag for me when games use pre-made assets is if the game trailer only shows the assets like it’s the super impressive game. Like, no, you’re just showing off other people’s work like it’s your own. Show off the things you can add and if you need assets to make it viewable.

[@TikkiNikki]

Actually, this is the first time I'm hearing about any red flags. Which sucks because I was looking forward to playing this And tbh, as an expert on the game, this looks like an asset flip of Bless Unleashed. I have thought that since the beginning teaser showing off the moves and classes

[@TikkiNikki]

So like a month or two? That would explain why. I heard about it x months ago and then my YT was police body cams, hip-hop lore (fir some reason) and non-gaming things. So guess I just missed it

[@pinkteacrotchdweller6869]

the company itself is a redflag

[@toomanyaccounts]

there were vids ten months ago showing the assets in quinfall@@TikkiNikki

[@azalea_k]

I saw an Asmongold reaction video to the original video, calling out the assets used, a few days ago. That video was actually made early last year! I'm glad the public spotlight is being brought to bear.

[@JustToSaveYou]

I've been working with RPGmaker, assets in that community highly, highly suspect. I love rpg maker games and I've played a lot of bad ones, at this point I've a pretty good grasp on what assets are actually red flags. It comes down to WHAT assets and WHERE. Unfortunatley, that means you need some familiarity with the engine to spot the line between good and bad, but I've found three signs you should proceed with caution: 1) The UI is not customized. 2) The main characters are assets. 3) There is a large disparity between art styles.

[@roskelld]

This was obvious in the trailer they released a year ago. It was all flash (provided by assets) without actual substance. Just scenes thrown together. Fine for a mock up, but people need to be aware how far away from reality that is. And it's understandable that people can get won over by it. I've been in pitch meetings with top level industry execs and you can present them with a pretty prototype and then end up spending time explaining why it's not 6 months from ship. "But I just played it and it was fun?"

[@Zarbalos]

Watch em add an nft function to it last minute

[@koppsr]

Didn't Callum also talk about a turkish Studia, that wanted to sell a ripped off Metin 2 as their own game? 🤔 I kinda remember him talking about that in a video, not too long ago.

[@medea27]

I had that same video/drama come to mind when I first heard about Quinfall.... especially when I saw the weird Discord messages from the devs. But this one isn't anywhere near as unhinged as the Metin 2 dev... yet anyway.

[@speed0spank]

We saw nice art and animation in the Chronicles of Elyria trailer and look how that turned out!

[@fredhurst2528]

No outro with loud generic music. Awesome.

[@_Gorrek_]

The moment i learned Quinfall was being made by a Turkish dev i turned off from it. I know their reputation in EU is like the Brazilian reputation in NA lol

[@RisingRevengeance]

I call something an "asset flip" if its mostly store bought assets AND has hardly any half decent gameplay

[@yurtonturtlegames188]

As a solo dev I appreciate that you care about us little guys. I don't want to use ai but assets are definitely demonized. Hard middle when I just mostly want to write code.

[@pipert4191]

DOOM, a masterpiece and arguably the most important videogame to ever be made used premade assets (cd sound packs, including camel noises for the imp enemies, and they used photoscans of toy guns they bought at a store)

[@HansFriedrich532]

Yeah let's compare a game from 1993 at the beginning of gaming and games made in 2024 :')

[@Leaf__22]

What is that comparison lol

[@ThatMocapGuy]

Friendo! The first commerical that played before your video started was a Kryto commercial - "Crypto makes the world go round" was the tag line. BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHA

[@khandimahn9687]

I'm not against using assets, they were made to be used. What matters is gameplay. You can't buy fun from an asset store. You can't buy a quality experience from a store. Assets can save development time, but it still takes work to make a game that people will want to play. So even if Quinfall avoids the RMT and other issues, I still will remain skeptical. Boasting over 2,000 square km means nothing if most of that area is devoid of life and there's nothing to do. I'll take quality over quantity any day, and right now there's no reason to believe they will be able to deliver on the quality.

[@dew_b_dew]

IF they put the assets together well and establish fun game play mechanics and systems (which is their claim), I think it's possible for it to be a good game, even if its mostly store bought assets. However, it's still clearly a red flag. If they cant develop their own assets, why should we think they can develop good systems? The game is not going to have a clear and consistent art direction with all the different assets either, so it could be break immersion. I'll reserve judgment until we actually see the game, but we could be looking at The Day Before 2, Electric Bugaloo.

[@patrickmuhwheeney6518]

I thought assets were just used as a place-holder, to be replaced by something more creative later...

[@anonymous92126]

Is there any chance that they're gonna be hard against RMT and also not pay-to-win, even if the game would turn out semi decent? I don't think so. I wouldn't care about the assets, except for the assets shown used in the combat scenes. To me that says they're not really fleshing out a combat system that would wow anyone. And that to me would be the only reason to use that many assets in the environment - to focus on gameplay aspects and make them phenomenal. Obviously adding to all this the misleading photoshop office picture etc... I would be massively surprised if this was ANY good. Also gonna be shocked if it releases on time now after all this coming to light. Should be another fun dumpster fire to watch though so I guess that's the silver lining we should look forward to.

[@NordicForgeDev]

I think there are two types of asset users out there: the ones who just drag and drop, and the ones who really take the time to integrate the asset into their own game with their unique vision. In the case of Quinfall, it seemed like they simply opened a demo scene and snapped a screenshot. If they had put in the effort to create a custom scene, work with the assets, and ensure everything matched shaders and style for consistency, I believe nobody would've had any issues.

[@ashleyneku5432]

Aside from all that, landscaping and map creation, especially "natural" landscapes, are tremendously easy to create. I don't get impressed by "vista" shots in game trailers anymore. I developed Skyrim mods for almost six years now. I can make a pretty large map in an afternoon. A detailed one in a weekend. Fine tuning it, optimizing it, populating it? That's what takes time. There are automated tools in applications like Blender to generate a landscape with a few keywords. It'll decide tree dispersion, topography and can even implement elements like craters and grass covers. It really does not take a lot of resources to make some of the environments these MMO trailers show. Some can genuinely be impressive looking from a creative standpoint, no doubt, but it's not indicative of progress on a game. A lot of people assumed when I had generated maps for several mod projects I worked on, that meant I was anywhere near being done. I wasn't. I get the map down first, then decide where population centers and ruins and caves go, and tweak the map as I go along. It's basically the first thing done.

[@Serv83]

"A water is wet statement" - Water is not wet, water only makes other substances wet.

[@TheCyrus1988]

I completely agree on the assets subject. I've played many games that had assets bought from either the Unity Asset Store or the Unreal Store, and at least half of those games were actually very good. More importantly, I don't mind if developers buy assets for their game; it's how they use them that matters.

[@woodrowengle]

Game developer here with 17 years of experience and and 7 shipped titles. Small note, in the industry, any 3D object in a game, handmade or store bought is referred to as an “asset”. To denote assets purchased from marketplaces we usually refer to them as “Marketplace assets”, “Premade assets” or “Asset packs”.

[@jackdaniel3135]

If you have a fantastic game concept but no artistic / 3D background, there's nothing wrong with using assets. The problems arise when you start seeing the same 3rd person cameras, the same movement mechanics, etc all the time to the point where even the code looks copy and pasted. Just make a creative game and use assets as a tool to do so, and it's fine.

[@rasmusazu]

I didnt use to have issues with people using assets in their games. Often the assets were used because the dev was just a programmer, not an artist as well. However, with Digital Homicide and so many others just buying assets and then selling the assets as the full game. I cant really get myself to trust the devs that use pre-bought assets to actually put any work in beyond "Hey, we added some enemies with basic navigation!"

[@jun_hakase]

whenever some nobodies give themself a title like legendary developer or whatever the hell those guys from dreamworld called themself as, they are pretty much just trying to cover up their lack of skill and experience.

[@Captain.AmericaV1]

We always live in hope that scammers fail and end up losing every penny.

[@Vaelosh466]

"Asset Flip" originally was referring to games where someone bought a prebuilt game off the Unity/Unreal Store (usually marketed as being for devs to learn how to make 3D games or as the basic 3D physics/world code with an example map you're supposed to build a new game on top of), slapped a new game title on it and released it on Steam with almost no alterations from what was bought from the store. That practice in particular is scummy and I think at some point Steam cracked down on it. Using it to refer to just buying a lot of assets dilutes the term. I think if someone is making a good faith effort to actually make a unique game and is using store assets it's unfair to penalize them just because they used them, but it can definitely be a factor in the game feeling generic which is a fair criticism.

[@johnlaperen7418]

"He didn't believe people would find out, or exploit this(client authoritative state) even if they did" as if "New World" never happened.

[@bogdananghel2498]

When I hear asset flip I think of games that are basically clones that play the same but they have different textures or skins.

[@GhostAeonWolf]

Biggest red flag is its from Turkey.

[@restingsithface]

Hi, great video, but please, I'm begging you, show us the kittens. You cannot tease us with the presence of kittens and then not show them. I don't make the rules. Just cough up the kittens and no one gets hurt.

[@ericmcmanus5179]

For small, indie games like phasmaphobia, using assets doesn't matter. Its when you make giant mmo games where tens of thousands of mechanics need to work together and flow seamlessly. Thats where asset flipping becomes a problem.

[@Leaf__22]

Astlibra is one giant asset flip, even the music is roalty free. But you can clearly tell the love behind it, so even a game consisting of assets only can still be surprisingly good. Not saying this "game" is gonna be good, it's one giant scam

[@hansethetooly5421]

i dont mind store bought assests if its used in a novel or fun way, but this game just screams shovel asset flip, i almost expect the server population to handle the same as "the last day" a mmo without the MMo.

[@F_Print]

Basically their trailer is just a showcase of a bunch of asset packs that anyone can buy in the store. For all we know, they haven't done anything except drop these assets in a new empty UE5 project. A hobbyist with 3 weeks of experience could do this alone. I don't mind if a dev uses store assets but if they haven't anything else to show in their hype up trailer then they done messed up.

[@Wastingsometimehere]

It might not be fair to say, but the days of MMO pioneering are long gone. If you want a MMO, it's going to need the backing of billionaires like WoW or FF 14 or Guild Wars. Lucky if one good start up MMO happens every few years. Just setting yourselves up for a scam at this point.

[@This-Was-Sparta]

I think that's completely fair to say, honestly. The amount of money and dev time mmos require even just to function are pretty nuts. For someone who doesn't have experience with the genre to attempt to create one because "they're passionate for the game type" sounds kind of suicidal, honestly.

[@kombatwombat6579]

Friday Kira video, my kinda weekend start.

[@PHeMoX]

@4:37 The issue is not with a dev being 'lazy' though. It's about a dev unwilling to invest in making their own assets or lack the skill of making them. It's always a telltale sign of an inexperienced dev. Not everything will be asset flip trash, but chances are high. Which is the case in Quinfall. I don't see why people try to defend asset packs here at all. Think of this, would it ever be nice to see the same assets show up in multiple games you play? Probably not. It feels like the player got tricked. Even worse, you paid for the same content twice. There are inherent problems with it, actually.

[@fy8798]

I think "asset flip" is usually missing the point. It's an issue if the game is really *only* an asset (typically the case with "games" based entirely on default packs like 'Zombie Survival Starter Pak" or somesuch). Using bought assets for individual areas, mobs, totally fine. I don't see it as a red flag and the discussion really distracts from the REAL red flags with Quinfall - such as that previous game.

[@melly218]

Hell yeah the friendos are Back. Mutch appriciated 😁

[@Sharlenwar]

If assets are put together nicely, then I don't see a problem. There better be some kick ass game mechanics to make up for it.

[@allthatishere]

There won't, and I'm willing to bet money on that.

[@oz_jones]

@@allthatishere He was speaking in general.

[@tyler7637]

Personally, I think the asset flip comparison with Phasmophobia isn't very accurate. Phasmo isn't a RPG like Quinfall is supposed to be, and one of the big things about RPGS is the world-building and lore ect. If you use majority store bought assets in an RPG that's supposed to have a cohesive lore and world to go with it, then you're completely ruining the possibility of having a unique and consistent world. You'll end up with a bunch of useless symbology in the world that doesn't actually have anything to do with the story. Imagine if Dark Souls used store-bought assets, everything we "knew" about the world would be meaningless. That symbol you found on the wall of the castle actually is just a random decoration that came with the model they bought ect. ect.

[@djmandrick]

If you can't take a placeholder item and amend/customise a stock item to make it somewhat unique to your game env't, that suggests you don't have the creative integrity, care, knowledge or time to do anything else game related to make the rest of it good. No decent developer would want their entire game to be of stock assets bought, for the reason you state already true or not, the label of 'asset flip'. People would avoid your game once that is made known - even if yours was the best ever made. From a business perspective it also makes no sense as you are tarnishing your own game image and potential sales as a result, yourself, before you even begin. You can't make a second first impression

[@JJJBunney001]

I'm definitely on the aide of "the more store bought assets, the more doubt" but I also don't think it's an immediate red flag. People seem to forget about Asset Libraries. Modders use them all the time and nobody complains about that. AAA studios use internal libraries all the time. Some of the best games of all time resuse assets all the time instead of getting them remade or because the original artist left the studio

[@bruceMooseman]

I think as gamers we need to make it loud and clear that 'largest' 'huge game' etc is neither exciting to hear or actually impressive.. I feel like companies need to be forced into the position to show your game has quality and good design.. when we allow them to dazzle us with 'hey look at how vast this is going to be!!' we make it easy to short cut actually using skill and imagination to make a good game.

[@descuddlebat]

Client-authoritative MMO? Storing plaintext passwords? RMT partnership? Is this dev actively parodying the genre?

[@TurtleKwitty]

If people don't care that ta game was made in a premade engine then they shouldnt care about assets *shrugs* If the game is good, the aesthetics are on point it doesnt matter who made that model (assuming correct licensing of course, dont steal assets) same as if the game is good and the aesthetics are on point it doesnt matter that they didnt hand code everything either

[@sasusuvisaari7320]

"You activated mu trap card" in this context was mad funny😂😂

[@fudalefu1]

Anyone know the song playing at 12:50? I know it’s a Japanese song but can’t remember it.

[@NirielWinx]

Vocabulary problem. "It uses assets so it's an asset flip". Let's forget the "so it's an asset flip" because we know it's a silly reaction. What's also silly is to say "it uses assets". Every game ever uses assets. A texture is an asset. A config file is an asset. The word "asset" doesn't mean "stuff bought on the epic/unity/whatever-store". It broadly refers to anything that's not code. The only games that don't use assets are text adventure games that play entirely in the console.

[@CainXVII]

Kira, you are right!! I am soon turning 27 and he created a game more often than I have a hot dinner...

[@Rhyas9]

In the context of MMOs, using assets is fine whilst developing the game. As the product nears release, the more unaltered the assets, the worse the impression. How would you inspire confidence in your MMO if it's mostly unaltered assets? Says alot about effort, budget and capability.

[@lolilol299]

I dont think assets are bad, they are made for a reason. I think the big issue becomes when you lie about using them *Cough* the day before *cough* or if the game is just straight up shit and legit is just a quickly stiched together game just to earn quick bugs. phasmophobia, as you showed is a great example. Game is pretty much just assets, but they atleast did not hide it and actually tried (and succeded in my mind) to make a good game that shows they actually care about it.

[@DeathMetalDerf]

Using store assets without any kind of modification, a true asset flip, is just plain lazy and will absolutely keep me from buying the game. Using an asset for inspiration or modifying it so it totally fits and works within the game in one thing, but asset flips just put me off 100%.

[@MrKylljoy]

I used to play Metin 2 and its incredibly popular in Turkey as well. Saw turkish players in all private servers

[@themissingbracket]

Many games with "fall" on their title actually fall: Godfall, Babylon's fall, quinfall. This can't be a coincidence.

[@Lyndonberg_Gaming]

The only disparity in games should be raw skill and time put in both down to the end user no decent game should be pay to be good

[@raginasiangaming910]

If someone used store bought assets so they could focus on delivering great mechanics and gameplay...id be fine with that. The problem is thats never the case.

[@finnExterminatus]

I am always impressed how deep you go into these games. Insane journalism actually, from someone who is not a game journalist. Its not that hard apparently, if you are good at what you do. If an article like this dropped when quinfall was announced, from kotaku or something, people would be impressed. Good job kira.

[@rickyjanzen6684]

Great synopsis on asset flipping. Personally, if The Day Before had played completely like the initial ray-traced trailer they put out, it would've been the game of the decade and nobody would've cared about asset flips. Of course, that was an unobtainable goal (both in foresight and definitely in retrospect) and shows why massive asset flipping should at least raise red flags. I think Quinfall's shenanigans with their office "photo" is a bigger tell and should be all anyone should need to avoid anything this person/company does.

[@dranziken]

This channel always has refreshing takes. Agree 100% on assets. Not everyone can afford a whole team. If a game is good, it's good. Doesn't matter how it was made.

[@ButWhyWasTaken]

I don't get why so many people equate map size with amount of content. 90% of time spent on such large maps is getting from A to B and even though modern mmorpgs may have randomized encounters that break up the monotony, it's still an extreme inconvenience and heavily distracts from the actually fun content like quest / dungeons / raids / etc. So whenever I hear an mmorpg has a really large map I know instantly it's not fun, it's just for people who like their Medieval Transport Sim. I.e. even games like TERA that have cheap / free instant travel, let alone anything focused on instances does not care about map size because it's a horrible metric for anything that matters. By definition large map size literally only means increased travel time and decreased time and effort made on far more important parts of the game. It's also a meaningless metric because either the game is indeed boring as hell and to actually make use of the giant map you have to spend a hell lot of time traveling or, the large map is utterly pointless because fast travel, etc. means that you only rarely spend more than 5 minutes traveling. And there is no happy medium either because anything past 5 minutes is a big issue if you have to go to multiple places for quests, meeting friends, shops with different inventories, etc. which could end up to easily 30-60 minutes of travel in one session just when doing some errands like fetching a from b, selling y in z or handing in quests and shit. The happy medium is a bunch of fast travel and NPCs are readily accessible but for quests you still have to go into the wild, however this won't be more than 10 minutes away from a fast travel spot because in virtually every online rpg you end up with multiple destinations you want to check off in quick order at times and an overly large map or too few fast travel spots mean this part is a massive, horrible chore.

[@TheZackofSpades]

So is this already being called “quidfall” as a mockery or did I just mishear that? 😅

[@kagari1426]

The stock videos made me think of whatever the MMO that soulbound was trying to make

[@solaryon8711]

Is putting "fall" in the name of your game some secret thieves cant to let other developers know that you're a scam team?

[@efabiano82]

The Day Before Quinfall was outted as a scam.

[@arcticridge]

impressive walk cycle

[@Starrky923]

13:30 tbf WoW sells rmt as well, just like tons of other mmos

[@kalorathekau]

I used to think that videos like this were just talking about things that are just common sense. But after seeing tons of people still buying into games like The Day Before; no, I guess videos like this are absolutely still necessary. :P

[@FallingForgiveness]

knight online was my first mmo haha

[@grandtonino2554]

Feeding YT logarithm

[@simpletrailers1161]

bynogame is a legit company with couple of mmos out there. but, would I buy it? no. Will it look as good as the trailers? no. They are most likely aiming for the knigh/silkroad players in Turkey and for some reason decided to go worldwide on their way edit: a little backroung info about Turkish MMO culture: games like metin 2, knigh online and silkroad are quite popular ever since they came out. like half the country played one of them at some point in their lives. and for some reason people spend days grinding for a single item and then sell it for couple thousand dollars in-game. People murdered each other in real life just for these expensive items. So, this game is basically a cash-grab intended for Turkish players

[@Starfishcentral]

I have heard rumours that you will have to buy the game from their website and it won't be available on Steam which is a bit dodgy if they are going to do a rug pull. *Where is the wildlife?*

[@bokakev]

Kira was so right about The Day Before way before it was a sure thing to say it was a scam. He's got my confidence about this sort of thing now.