Star Citizen, $700 million dollars later and it's still a mess

[@FlamboCortez]

I was an original backer 1 eternity ago. Since then I've married, had two children, completed a career in the military, and I'm about to emigrate to Canada. It's still in Alpha. I could legit die of old age before a release at this rate.

[@John.F_Kennedy]

But think of the legacy. Your kids, possibly grand kids, could enjoy star citizen 1.0 for free.

[@FlamboCortez]

@@John.F_Kennedy You sir are a genius, I will now include my copy of star citizen in my will for my dependents to fight over!

[@shadedwulf]

Brother I have almost an identical story..... Military Career Complete, wife, kids, dogs, house.... I I back SC when I was still single getting blackout drunk in the barracks a lifetime ago.... I expect my kids kids will finally have a finished SC by then.

[@caintindal1671]

@@shadedwulf Your dependants will kill each other over it imagine the legal fees fighting over it.

[@theicedragon100]

at least your grandchildren will get to play it

[@YouLikeBosch]

Things that took less time than Star Citizen's dev cycle: The Manhattan Project All three of FDR's Presidential terms The Entirety of World War 2 and about 6 full years of post-war reconstruction No Man's Sky was announced, released, tanked, fixed, and released 35 major named updates, and announced a new IP 7 Days to Die, perhaps the longest early access cycle on Steam, released and full released

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

The Duke Nuken Forever devs: "Even we eventually delivered". Curt Schilling: "Yes, I was a baseball player who got in over my head and I tanked my studio but you can actually play Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning now." Your turn, Star Citizen.

[@NimhLabs]

Yandere Simulator has come out in some form, right? Like, IIRC, the drama around that has been almost entirely resolved in less time

[@RusticRonnie]

Also Duke nukem 4 year 2000 build leaked and was rebuilt fully by one fan becoming a full game that can be played.

[@PointsofData]

​@@TorIverWilhelmsen Duke Nukem Forever is what usually comes to mind when long development times are touted...longer does not mean the game is becoming better.

[@raycearcher5794]

Don't forget that Starfield was announced, came out with most of the features Star Citizen was meant to have, and everyone decided they didn't like it as much as they thought they would, all in perhaps a third of the time.

[@1977punksunite]

Being in a cult and not thinking you are in a cult is quite popular nowadays.

[@tony2888]

Or republican party. Both delusional.

[@121Zeen]

You have to be in a cult nowadays, because if you aren't, then all the other cults gang up on you for not being with them and you have no one to ran to

[@Infernal_Elf]

Its one of the central concepts of a cult. It all falls apart when a chunk of people. Realise the thruth.

[@ppevader-u2t]

​@tony2888 lol there if you think the left is any better youbare delusional 🤣

[@ThoraxtheDarkk]

​@@ppevader-u2t bro you are brainwashed

[@nicksiegfried4906]

Back in 2018 someone on the star citizen subreddit got mad at me for suggesting that it'll take 10 more years for star citizen to come out. He said "5 years would be more reasonable" This was 6 years ago

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

Your estimate would be more accurate in regards to the technology ie microsoft fs2020 then msfs 2024 and then msfs 2028 in that post ps6 and just before rtx 7090 era. Getting that gpu fp64 towards 30-100 tflops and reaching a fp32 to near 1 petaflop by 2030. Unless all the cards go AI or streaming servers launched above the earth like starlink. Or near your nearest ocean for cooling. Or if something stops that all together like a big war. But between 5 and 10 we have 7 and 8.

[@SkyForceOne2]

you spewing out random ass numbers does not make your guess more informed than anybody else's

[@KabelkowyJoe]

Linux, in developement for the last 30 years, only difference is that unlike Star Citizen its open and build of parts, for someone to make snapshot - distribution. Every time i almost use as daily driver - OpenSUSE 10.1 and now SUSE 15.5 there is some upgrade update that no longer works, same goes with PCBSD and other alternative systems. It makes me angry every time. Its simmilar theme, to most open sourced project. Except these open sourced project are in use, now, currently Star Citizen is and nothing will change no more people will play it wont change. Hype is keept to get constant supply of money. This company have unsustainable business model. Just like Elon Musk and his companies he makes sells but companies wont be valued that much if he stop providing fake, false, promises of robo taxis, robots and all that crap. Meanwhile when they are selling dreams, other companies are focused on selling products

[@mbg4681]

@@SkyForceOne2 Get back to work Chris.

[@SkyForceOne2]

@@mbg4681 I dont work from my Yacht

[@Nocturnalverse]

When it hits 20 years of development people will still be saying "It's because no one has ever done anything like this before". Well, I guess that's true, but not the way they think.

[@cabritsanscorgaming]

Oh actually, it's been said many times it's going to be developed for _at least_ 10 years post-release, so...

[@yasai101]

plenty of games have taken a decade+ to make with a fraction of the scope and tech. I don't play this game but holy fuck, get some perspective.

[@carlost856]

​@@yasai101cope, those games were in development hell, this is worked non stop on.

[@yasai101]

@@carlost856 except for the first 5-6 years when they were still ramping up their studio? They didn't start with 1000 employees buddy

[@JDJ1213]

@@yasai101 none of them crowd funded, lied, and changed direction multiple times by the year 10 mark. NONE

[@pelleskanal7660]

Flying cars, fusion energy and star citizen… always 10-20 years away

[@JackTheMurderer]

😂I'm not so pessimistic about the first two.

[@blackhorde22]

Back to the Future is our only chance! haha

[@JK-gm6kk]

Bobby broccoli has made a multi part series about cold fusion that is amazing, if you haven't seen it yet

[@babstra55]

not that anyone cares but that 'fusion is always' quip has never been true. I was in my teens in the 80s, and it was "fusion is always 50 years away", in the 90s it was 40 years, 2000s it became 30 years, 2010s 20 years. ITER was planned to go online in 2025, but covid pushed it ahead years, then they decided to add 5 years worth of upgrades (that were planned for after launch originally) while they're at it. 4 years delay from covid, 5 years from the upgrades. so now the date is 2034, which is exactly 50 years from the 1980s "it's always 50 years away". so not even nearly in the same class as star citizen.

[@electricant55]

We have flying cars, they're called helicopters

[@NikopolAU]

Kira making 3 minute long disclaimer to ward off rabid SC bagholders is everything you need to know about this game.

[@IncorrigibleBigotry]

Yep, the community they have fostered is absolutely rabid.

[@minimumapature3361]

​@@IncorrigibleBigotryI wonder what the community will become after the game is released. Will it be a fun game that I would want to play after a long day at work I wonder...

[@JS-fd2xk]

@@minimumapature3361 Best way to find out how the SC Community realy is, is to read KZbin comments about the community. Solid....

[@iamjordandavis]

@@minimumapature3361 who said the game was EVER going to be released?

[@minimumapature3361]

@@iamjordandavis I want to see the titanic, gigantic, astronomic amount of salt that will ensue when SC is forced to released in a half finished state.

I worked at Apple in the early 2010s. During that time, we were denied raises citing global economic issues. At the same time, apple excitedly announced record profits and renovations to the building and staff rooms - expecting that to raise morale. No different than CIG.

[@Sekir80]

Yea, I worked at a multi national company, the experience is the same. Barely raises, but boasting company-wide emails about the revenue and profit. And we were like "oh. okay. thanks for the nothing, then." Makes employees cynical pretty fast, I tell you.

[@MakerInMotion]

Anyone Apple loses is easily replaceable because there's thousands lined up behind you that would love to have your job. You tell the girl with the septum ring at the coffee shop that you work for Apple and you'll be clapping those cheeks.

[@maybemablemaples2144]

​@MakerInMotion I don't understand people like you who don't understand their place. Sir, you are not an owner. Until you are you're also just as replaceable. That's a bad thing btw because it's fundamentally untrue. But yeah that barista was cute.

[@this.is.a.username]

@@MakerInMotion the only reason for that is due to the cult of personality built up around the brand. apple is a shit company and it's about time the ignorant lead poisoned masses wake up to that fact

[@newnamesameperson397]

I remember working at a CVS distribution center getting paid 13 an hour. They wouldn't give us a raise but would always make announcements about how much more money they made this quarter. Then they complain about the high turnover rate. Kansas City is full of places like that, everyone is hiring but the pay is so dog shit that people rather not bother. No one wants to work paycheck to paycheck, people want to be able to set money aside to save or do other stuff besides buy essentials

[@NTSHMA]

SC was introduced with specific features, funding targets, and timelines, for which I backed $2k in 2013. At the time I was 49 years old, it didn't matter that the graphics were amazing, only that it was playable on my three game machines for myself and two boys, 11 & 18 (now 22 and 29). Now that I am 60 years old, it's become more clear that being honest and responsible to others for what comes out of my mouth is the most important thing in life. CR should be ashamed for his Ponzi project, there was no need for it to happen.

[@coldcraze]

Despite the crap show that was SC, I hope you utilised and made memories on those three machines with your boys. I'm sure they'll always remember those good times throughout their lives.

[@mantiscoregaming6699]

Yes there was. How else was CR and Sandy supposed to get more rich so they can retire without worrying about changing their lifestyle?

[@lassikinnunen]

​@@mantiscoregaming6699 he could've at least made squadron 42 as a wing commander style campaign. Thats a simple concept, like so simple its literally just a graphics upgrade conceptually, it can be done in a box engine, no need for moving coordinate systems and flexible scales. I thought he was a fool when he promised to make crysis engine basically into a frontier first encounters style true space simulating engine in solar system scales with true planets. Only one man had the chops to do that and he had elite dangerous as his project.

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@NTSHMA I'm the same age as your eldest son and I appreciate this post

[@OFFONE]

I pray you live long enough to play it is evil what they are doing

[@OldSpaghettifactory89]

the fact that chris prioritized spending lavish bucks transforming his office into the star wars hotel is icing on the cake of everything else.

[@This-Was-Sparta]

My jaw was on the floor. I can only imagine the kind of industrial grade copium you need to be on to look at that and not think it's completely mental.

[@hippieyoda1993]

@@This-Was-Spartaonly way I can imagine it is if ppl have spent a sickening amount of their money on this. In which case I can see every reason why they’d be a) ashamed b)feeling scammed so they have to lie to themselves it’s sad really. Guy should go to jail honestly ppl pay thousands for this software.

[@sandweed]

@@hippieyoda1993 you only go to jail if you steal from rich people.

[@bmw_m4255]

Quid

[@insantonua]

nah, even better. he's paying himself and his wife millions in salary and bought his "house" with backer money. that house being a fucking mansion

[@jakg8423]

Ah yes. Star citizen, the gift that keeps on taking.

[@robertbrown380]

*the grift that keeps on taking

[@jarigustafsson7620]

perfect explanation.

[@rabid_si]

It's the gift that keeps on gi

[@reihidezero]

It gives more than it takes you are a noob

[@spektri2297]

@@reihidezero oh look, one of them came here to cope.

[@vsGoliath96]

By the time Star Citizen ever actually comes out, it will be out of date because why would anyone play a video game where you pilot a starship when you can just buy your own?

[@TheBelrick]

10 years ago i fought the fan boys with how bad the decision making was. Stupid stuff like initially being 32bit, modelled damages (1gig per ship!) . Then i saw the code on bug smashers. OMG No Developer in the world can work on code with 12+ nested if conditions like i saw, and not break stuff with every change. It was awful spaghetti code. Add to this, c++ is a language that is very tough on developers. C# code gets written faster and with far fewer bugs in comparison.

[@petrnovak3411]

Its funny... heard it a couple of times... but its one of the most nonsensical jokes ever... - "Why would anyone play MSFS, you can buy an airplane" , "FIFA, you can play footbal", "the Hunter, you can go hunting" , "Forza Horizon, you can go driving", "Farming Simulator, you can get a farm and a tractor", "Truck sim, you can be a trucker" , "Hitman, you can... oh, wait...

[@zhv3062]

with that logic, Why do people still play GTA5?

[@vsGoliath96]

@@zhv3062 What do you mean? It's not legal to kill people and steal their cars.

[@petrnovak3411]

​@@vsGoliath96 Why do they play Forza. Or MS Flight Simulator. Or Fifa. Or Snowrunner. Or Farming Simulator. ;-)

[@MisterNightfish]

Okay, hear me out: The medival fantasy game in development is actually Chronicles of Elyria.

[@cherry9787]

I would lose my mind

[@Meow_Tse-Tung]

That'd be straight out of an M. Night Shaymalan movie

[@Reebus.LCU.]

😂😂😂 Imagine that

[@agonyaunt6325]

Shroud of the Citizen Avatar

[@domomonstero3077]

lmao 🤣🤣

[@Z1zyll]

As a person who works in the creative industry, I can say there is nothing more discouraging than endless feedback rounds. Even if you are enthusiastic about the project at the beginning, at some point all motivation dies out and you just work through tasks like a robot - uninspired and annoyed.

[@mawnkey]

Robots are annoyed? Man the future's gonna suuuuuuuuck...

[@seekittycat]

I also had higher ups who change their mind on a whim even on complete work but we also had directors, supervisors, department leads, and budget people to push back. It sounds like they're actively getting rid of those people.

[@sclub6414]

I work in a non-creative industry. Same happened in a previous workplace - same destruction of motivation - sometimes, projects just die forever. We called it death by committee.

[@SessH88]

The staff quote "there's just no actual focus on getting the game done" says it all 😂

[@Infernal_Elf]

Like most scams facing reality and finishing or changing the status quo. Will make the cardhouse crumble.

[@Nightenstaff]

Why would they want to get it done? Think of all the money they would have lost if this came out five years ago. They know exactly what they're doing. They're milking whales like you'd see from a mobile game. The instant the profits no longer make sense, they'll say the game is done, get that one last payday, and laugh all the way to the bank.

[@86BuzzSaw]

Yeah, because there clearly isn't. More interested in churning out ship designs for people to buy. That's pretty much what this game has become. A star ship show room.

[@Robustiusyes]

Who pays them i wonder

[@Argumemnon]

Small note: white on yellow is pretty hard to read.

[@Sabith01]

Plus that grit/dirt filter made it even worse on all the text sections. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed the video, not trying to trash it.

[@Fatman4our2wenty]

Get better retinas.

[@TheRealBozz]

Sounds like a skill issue to me. Get good.

[@Christo_Trismegistus]

You're hard to read

[@joses1191]

Don't worry, you'll understand in ten years when your older. That shit is hard to read

[@F_Print]

Imagine casually sending an email telling all employees that they're on shift every day for 19 days straight. There's a reason labor laws exist to make this shit illegal. Employees have a right to live a normal life, and it matters more than your shit game. Besides, making games is not all fun and rainbows, it's just as stressful and unfun as any office work, and you can bet your ass no accountant or secretary wants to stay in office for 19 days either.

[@Relhio]

The moment you receive an email like this, you stay quiet and sue the company, pretty straight forward.

[@honeybadger6275]

Shame there are no labor laws like that in the united states, its perfectly legal as long as the company pays you overtime. Buddy of mine works for ncr and its pretty common he has to work 2 weeks straight, a lot of those days being 10-12 hour days.

[@slashednoodles]

​@@honeybadger6275you guys just voted in an old man in makeup, ain't no way you guys can do anything sensible

[@ChampHello]

All they were offered in return was the equivalent number of days off, nothing more. Meanwhile, Chris and his family members have been buying real estate with backer funds and putting it under their own names so that they can keep the backer funds for themselves when they run out of runway and have to shut the game down.

[@honeybadger6275]

@@slashednoodles Not like it matters anyway, both parties support the same policies, and both parties take their orders from the same people.

[@Tokru86]

The most funny thing is, that SC supporters still think that the game just has to release already (as if) and all financial problems will be going away because this will sell millions of copies. It absolutely won't. Everyone and their mom who is mildly interested in the very niche genre already owns the game anyway. There is just no audience left to sell it to. Maybe there will be a few hundred thousand sales from non-fans due to good reviews (if it gets them) on release. There is no chance this will even be in the top 10 for sales in the year it releases. Regardless of what else releases.

[@DiabloDBS]

I don't know if it is still the plan but back in the day it was going to have a non mandatory abo model similar to EVE but with a buy to play component. So depending on how many people who already own it want the "premium" membersip, or whatever they will call it, they will likely make money with it. The question is just how much. For game sales it really depends on how many people who are interested in the MMO are also interested in the SP game. Afaik those got separated a while back so a large chunk of people who own SC probably don't own S42 yet. And depending on the quality they deliver I could see them sell that quite well since there is probably a bunch of people who have 0 interest in the MMO but would love a Freelancer SP game. The prologue they showed this year imho looked fine but hard to say how the rest of the game will be based on that. Cyberpunk also looked "fine" in the demos and imho is a 9/10 now but wasn't anywhere near that on release especially for console players.

[@Titere05]

The only way this is getting good reviews from mainstream media if they include gender options in the character creator

[@DiabloDBS]

@@Titere05 Who cares about what mainstream media thinks about games? :-X

[@cagneybillingsley2165]

@@DiabloDBS unintelligent people, which is the majority of consumers

[@cagneybillingsley2165]

@@DiabloDBS so the people who had backed this over a decade ago and bought who knows how many ships and perks, have to pay again? yeah that's a terrible business model. this game is essentially doa. i doubt they sell more than a million copies total. everyone who is interested in the genre already knows about the game and knows how much people like you cope over what a failure it is.

[@theknifesong]

I've been a backer from the very beginning in October 2012 and I have finally lost faith in the project. For me it's not just slow pace of development and delivery that did me in - their marketing and sales practices are very toxic and detrimental to the backers and to the overall development of the game. CIG has become addicted to new money coming in and the long term backers who've already paid in are the victims of this. Thank you for your balanced and realistic coverage of the project.

[@marktvcturner2448]

Same. Backed on kickstarter in 2012. Sold my account last year.

[@Richard_Cranium]

Dude how do I sell my account?

[@marktvcturner2448]

@@Richard_Cranium search theimpound42

[@planescaped]

@@Richard_Cranium Find a deluded bagholder who'll buy it off you? Best act fast while the cult is still strong.

[@laz0rbra1n]

they could even ramp up their monetization if they achieved to release their game. they just aren't able to do that...

[@Seoul_Soldier]

"The potential of this game. Oh man the scope. Oh you don't understand." Some of you people sound like cultists.

[@Dragon-Believer]

The Kamala campaign of video games. If we just get enough money it will work.

[@Masterlove2694]

There are in fact are cultists. It's the same stories you hear coming from South Korea one of the countries with the most powerful cult

[@Korelon7]

They literally are cultists. It's fucking sad to see the Cultizens coping with the same fucking excuses a decade later. Let them get fucked lmao

[@ReinertZerker]

Wrong again, you honestly think we sound like cultist because you lack Faith. Faith in our Lord, our leader, Christ Roberts. Seriously, you just don't understand what this game is going to be, the things we'll have in it are far greater than anything you'll find elsewhere. So what it has taken just a couple of years? Have you made a game of this scale? Pfft, doubter, heretic. I've sacrificed my first born for this game, and I'll sacrifice many more so our Lord's at RSI can deliver the ultimate game!

[@honeybadger6275]

Whenever someone says "the potential of a game" or "the missed potential" I immediately know they care way too much about a game.

[@CosminNecula]

Those offices looked great, like an accurate depiction of in-game interiors. Which makes them extremely dangerous, since you can fall through the floor at any moment.

[@Fuzzy_Barbarian]

At this point, this game is powered purely by sunk cost fallacy.

[@patrickdix772]

If only we could harness the energy of the sunk cost fallacy, we would have more power than we could ever use.

[@fingermi7571]

I said this above before reading your comment. You are one thousand percent correct. So many basement virgins have spent their savings on this game, they can't do anything else but defend it

[@housemana]

@@fingermi7571 >> anime pfp calling other people basement virgins lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[@benjiro8793]

@@fingermi7571 Nothing more dangerous to carriers, then fans that turn into haters. I feel they are simply not launching because it will simply be a disappointment when people actually play a complete game, aka, where your not just doing a few local events but need to deal with actual progression and consequences.

[@Doomrider47]

Biggest red flag for me is how they constantly call it a "project", anytime i hear that crypto bro drivel it just gives me the ick

[@mawnkey]

First and last time I ever worked in the games industry we did 2 months of crunch at 100 hours per week at the end, then they rewarded us by laying everyone off after release. 20 years later it hasn't really improved. There's a reason I'll never work in the industry ever again.

[@notnoaintno5134]

Really? That sounds horrible. I would have been fired for being an asshole 2 weeks in

[@planescaped]

@@notnoaintno5134 I'd have been fired for saying "nope" and not showing up when told it's time to crunch, lol.

[@cwg9238]

that almost justifies going full milton from office space.

[@ltjjenkins]

What is "crunch"? , with respect.

[@FrikInCasualMode]

@@ltjjenkins Balls to the walls. "We work non-stop until it's done."

[@MarkAntony01]

"They have received 700+ million" I think that is all that needs to be said for an incomplete gaming experience.

[@JB-yb4wn]

Well maybe that's the game. You know, suckering people out of their money.

[@lordofentropy]

So far the only system they've finished and polished is the ship store-that speaks volumes. I literally fell through the elevator just a few months ago. During the same couple of days of play I also blew up my ship simply trying to move a piece of cargo into it-somehow my character on foot with tractor beam moving a crate is enough to bounce my parked ship into the ground causing it to blow up. 12 years and 3/4 of a billion dollars and I'm falling through the world and the physics around ships, even the flight models, are STILL not finished or even functional in many cases.

[@spacebassist]

just chiming in to let you know these happened when i tried it a couple years ago (and persisted as i kept playing and trying to like it for a couple years). i learned the term "code smell" because of it, recurring bugs that never disappear because something in the "foundation" of the code is broken and patchwork is the only fix without a refactor

[@jonathansalgado6368]

😂

[@monkeymilk8060]

The anvil arrow ship still has a bug where the canopy will open randomly in the middle of flight, even if you are in space. It's been like that since i started playing 5 years ago /:

[@pbiza]

I log on once a year, Still fall through elevators and die when I walk off my ship. It's a scam.

[@ChristoffRevan]

Not a scam, but...keep being toxic buddy

[@Rifky809]

​@@ChristoffRevanNot a scam but it is still in early access, It's still in early access when I'm in highschool in 2014 and it's still in early access in 2024. CR still wants to buy more yachts it seems to me

[@ChristoffRevan]

@@Rifky809 He doesn't get money from the project lmao....he was already rich before, not sure why you people think he's leeching all the money when CIG hasn't made any profit.

[@Tikky503]

@@ChristoffRevan Idk buddy, if its not a scam, then people have been donating money for nothing cause these guys are as incompetent as they come.

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

@@ChristoffRevan How is taking money without finishing your product not a scam?

[@Herbertti3]

One of the very first things Chris did with the kickstarter money was buying a yacht and a mansion. People tend to forget this since it was over decade ago.

[@tosspot1305]

Wow really?

[@robbantor]

Do you work for free? He is a Ceo of a 1000 dev game company. Id imagine Ea, Ubisoft etc CEOs also dont work for free and have some nice houses, yacht , cars etc....

[@D2Rugz]

@@robbantor You realise Chris won't let you borrow his yacht no matter how much you defend his honour?

[@tosspot1305]

@@D2Rugz yes but that's not bought from crowd funded finance

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

​@@robbantor Maybe he should pay the 1000 devs instead of laying off senior staff and replacing them by cheap yes men.

[@TheNightquaker]

I'm gonna be a star pensioner by the time version 1.0 of this game comes out 💀

[@slashednoodles]

Ok

[@Rifky809]

​@@slashednoodlesye

[@g-lani]

😂😂😂

[@TomJakobW]

You‘re gonna be stardust by the time the beta still hasn’t come out, rather.

[@ontoverse]

I spent $50 during the first kickstarter for this 12 years ago, knowing Chris Roberts' story quite well and having played most of his games. Within the first few months of the initial announcement it was clear the project had gone completly off the rails as they kept adding goals. From there it's been a pretty bizarre story.

[@clevertaghere3297]

I fucking loved Wing Commander, but it's pretty clear there will never be a "complete" game with this project. Even Freelancer was released over twenty years ago. That's a looooong time to not release anything at all.

[@Qorelin]

@@clevertaghere3297 Freelancer would still be in development if microsoft didn't fire roberts

[@UltraSuperDuperFreak]

Then you didtn pay attention to the date he said it would be done at some interview early on in progress. They said it willl at very easiest not be done before 2027, and they thought abit longer to be honest (not word for word , but something along those lines he said) They said that almost a decade ago , so its stil on its rails very much. So i can forgive you for forgetting it. Never the less they knew it already back then !

[@ontoverse]

@@UltraSuperDuperFreak The game he pitched in that original kickstarter video is long gone. That was a more traditional space-sim, no 1st-person, no reentry, no persistence-- but possibly some P2P-cloud multiplayer. By the time they were talking dates, it was very evident the original game was gone. He also said in that original video "we might fail and there might never be a game". There might still be a game, but it's not the game I backed-- not that it matters to me, I knew full well about Roberts troubled history with "cinematic" game development and gave them $50 anyway.

[@Culky]

@@UltraSuperDuperFreak Citation very fucking needed. In 2012 they were saying 2014. In 2014 they were saying 2016. And so on. They absolutely were not saying 2027 "early on in progress." Fans were dogpiling anyone who dared even suggest it would be the late '10s. It has been "current year+2" for so long that even that has become a meme.

[@oohhboy-funhouse]

$700,000,000. Let that sink in. There are so many games with 1% of the budget, that have 90% of the scope, out right now, still being played, with healthy user bases. Single and multi-player. Elite Dangerous, actual sequel to the Roberts games, from which SC is derived from, released back in 2015, 9 YEARS ago. You can drive around on planets and shoot people in first person now. Sure, you can't run around on a station and hand load cargo or ship interiors, but why tf would you need that? Multiplayer. All for the princely sum of $40. Empyrion, you build your own capital ships, fighters, land vehicles, space stations, bases, walk around, loot, mine, fight NPC or other players, trade, do quests/storyline, trade, drive around, massive mod support, in multi-player, private or public. Lush Green planets to hell worlds. At one point, I started ferrying stranded players in a capital ship with 10+ weapons, 6 craft in the hanger, for role play giggles. Released 2020. $20. That is 2 games off the top of my head. Spend your money on real, working, feature complete games. Or hookers and blow. Both excellent choices.

[@GoodwillWright]

Space Engineers. Think of every incomplete, broken or missing feature of Star Citizen, Space Engineers has it working. The only thing Space Engineers doesn't have is PvE content or environments. But Star Citizen's is very barebones in that regard anyway. Now look at what KEEN (developers of Space Engineers) is doing with VRAGE 3. THAT, is actual game development.

[@nickmyers3065]

How can someone not see using crowd funding to make your office look like a spaceship and deluxe coffee area not a misuse of funs? LIke okay you sell a game or two make a crap ton of money you use that to do this is one thing..... But crowd funding? Did they say the money would be used to build a coffee lounge?

[@65firered]

I'm more surprised their main priority was a coffe lounge and not a full blown restaurant. Then again they treat devs like many AAA companies so that coffee is their main source of fuel. As for the money being spent for this... it's not that surprising, many crowd funding scams put their money into expensive offices because they expect to stay around long enough to make up the cost. I think CIG believes that putting on a brave front is all they need to do, as long as they have a game in early access and a cult-like community, they believe that they can keep this going for at least another 12 years.

[@Deceit-hx7ey]

just put a fricking coffee machine or two instead of making a big fucking deal about it, like pretty much every other company does? lol

[@BlackRiverStudios]

​@@Deceit-hx7ey except other companies arent crowd funded. 😂

[@Deceit-hx7ey]

@@BlackRiverStudios which makes it even more ridiculous in this case rofl

[@hippieyoda1993]

@@Deceit-hx7eynowhere on their kickstarter did it say funds would be used on million dollar office spaces that look like Disney attractions lmfao. How much you spend on this game? 😂

[@alanwakeish]

There is a better of chance of Half Life 3 being made and released, than this game ever being finished.

[@Jpcraque]

What about portal 3??

[@chaosordeal294]

Um, Half-Life: Alyx got thunk up, made, released, and got old while SC was "in development."

[@magnemoe1]

@@Jpcraque Trivial I say,

[@SyntaxError0287]

kinda sad to be honest.. Bet if its run by Swen from larian studios.. this would have a lot more progress. atleast that guy can mess around in his office with actual work being done

[@zacharythomas8617]

It. Will. Never. Happen. On. Both.

[@TheHuffur]

The thing that all the SC people should be scared about is that all of the current progress and features have been built with the assumption that they will be able to make their semi-magical "netcode/server tech" a reality. Which is still not done and they will still not give any solid or definite answers on. "We hope that", "We aim to", "IF/WHEN we", "This(server tech) will allow us to" etc etc etc and every other type of non-answers they give on the topic should be causing a existential crisis(hopefully mainly for the game).

[@Titere05]

As a developer it's a hard time for me to understand this when they explain it, because it seems to me other games already do this persistent object between shards stuff. Also other games have 100s of players in the same shard playing seamlessly at the same time, and have done for years. So when people talk about this miraculous server tech they're trying to build, it's always a bit of a head scratcher for me exactly WHAT they're trying to do that isn't already out there in one form or another. Also they haven't clarified how they're going to deal with object clutter which is something that has affected a lot of games in the past and seems to only be solvable by despawning or wipes

[@TheHuffur]

@@Titere05 I sometimes say something along the lines of "Forget the game, if they do this they would be instant multi-billionaires because every single IT company on the planet would be throwing money at them to get this tech." Something stupid that people generally do not think about either is that even if they manage this historical feat of coding magic into reality. Who has a computer that could handle hundreds of ships in one area spewing out hundreds or thousands of projectiles per second that are hitting these super detailed ships and causing detailed multi-layered damage to various parts? No one has a computer like that but perhaps the game will still be in development in 2050 or something when we might have cracked quantum computing for general use... would probably solve their server issues too!

[@jatzi1526]

@@Titere05 There was that one single-shard MMO game where players build everything that did a bunch of stress testing with players in the same server. Wasn't successful but I remember seeing that and thinking what the hell is taking CIG so long to figure this stuff out?

[@drizztcat1]

Christ, I can't wait until Star Citizen becomes a case study at Harvard or M.I.T. about scope and feature creep costs and how they can kill even the most well funded projects.

[@Mr.Universe]

To be fair its not dead yet.

[@Argumemnon]

@@Mr.Universe No but the way it's going the Roberts will be dead before it's complete.

[@wargh12]

​@@Mr.Universe quite a few people who funded it probably are though😅

[@DogeickBateman]

Nah they'll be too busy trying to hold protests for Hamas. Probably some smaller university.

[@MotherNature26]

this project ain't dying, it is arguably stronger than ever, I think there is a misunderstanding concerning the amount of money that CIG brings in vs the burn rate. They used 630+ mil up till last year, and for the same period they brought in 800+ mil. Not all the numbers are being reported in good faith here. Additionally, this year, they have brought in somewhere close to 90 million already, and we haven't hit their premier sale week yet which people may spend upwards of 30 mil this year. At the end of this year dec 31 2024. They will be just under bringing in 1 billion total, maybe 950 mil approx

[@k64firefly03]

I got fucking banned from the Star Citizen sub reddit when I posted a direct quote by Chris Roberts on how the SQ42 would be out in 2016. I was suspended for 10 days from the Spectrum forum for posting an article about SC and Roberts and how the game was being mismanaged.

[@Dervraka]

Yep, the Star Citizen Sub-Reddit is the North Korea of sub-reddits. You are only permitted to praise "dear leader" Chris Roberts and CIG and talk about how the newest concept ship is so amazing and how you can't wait to spend your entire paycheck on it. Even the mildest criticism of in game bugs is met with torrent of down votes and people telling you to go play Starfield if you don't like it.

[@OryxAU]

​@@Dervraka lol, imagine being told to play a released game instead. Starfield for sure suffered from the too big a scope thing, but they actually released the damn thing.

[@Richard_Cranium]

My comment has been removed by Nightrider....

[@Ronusti]

@@CarlotheNord reality check- No, there is not a metric assload of critique, the cultists there downvote anything to oblivion and the mods basically work for CIG. Critique is not allowed when talking about the development, and I have been banned there for actually giving some. Not to mention a 10 year ban on Spectrum for talking about finances, legal issues, player numbers and so on. Cited as "Spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt". It's a fucking cult.

[@alexpetrov8871]

>I got fucking banned from the Star Citizen sub reddit when I posted a direct quote by Chris Roberts Looks like a very effective messaging system. You immediately clearly understood what exactly you did wrong.

[@dommguard]

700 million dollars and after 13 years it's still is alpha. Nobody can convince me it's not a scam.

[@Rawzix]

It is a scam, they’re just milking their backers for as long as possible because they make a lot more money doing that then they would’ve if they released the game years ago because it would’ve been trash and no one would’ve bought it. There’s a reason it plays like a tech demo after 13 years because they know they can’t make any good gameplay so it would hurt themselves if they released any. What they will do is keep milking their backers for as long as possible once the money finally stops coming then they will try to release some sort of ”full game” to try and get a second wave of hype from articles like ”Star Citizen finally releases after XX Years” and people will check the game out just because of that.

[@scubasteve3032]

I can understand the early investors but, at this point, well, a fool is easily parted from his wealth.

[@cagneybillingsley2165]

the only ones who need any convincing are the cult members who've already had their brains removed. incidentally, they think mark hammil's involvement is amazing and probably agree with his political views as well.

[@Tom_Quixote]

These scumbag developers are always excused by people saying "He's just a man with a big dream", "development takes time", "it's still in alpha/beta/early access", "if you keep complaining he will be sad and leave and then it will be YOUR FAULT we will never get the game of our dreams".

[@Darkreaper1982]

Pretty sure Microsoft had to step in to stop the scope and feature creep that Chris Roberts wanted to implement with his last game, Freelancer. With Star Citizen, it looks like he doesn't really have anyone to step in and tell him "no" or to rebuff any new ideas and get him focused on finishing a game they've been working on for over a decade with a budget of over $700mil.

[@abelbeano]

They did and they fired him

[@captainkaiju2273]

Literally the case, Microsoft got impatient with CR fapping about and stepped in. CR got upsetti spaghetti and left the dev team (not sure if he was fired or left on his own, either way once Microsoft stepped in he stepped out). Microsoft finished the game, it got praise, then CR tries to pretend like it was him that made the finished product and not the single person behind it almost being canceled altogether.

[@benjiro8793]

The strange part is, when i ordered by copy of the game, like 8 years ago? I really do not even remember, they showed off a lot of the tech. Yet, after all those years, i feel like there really is not much new in the development. Some fine tuning, new ship models, etc but nothing that really stands out for so many years of development. And take in account, the spending has increased year by year to the point that they seem to be spending multiple times the money, then what they had years ago. Its not feature creep, its feature rewrites... that seems to be the issue.

[@abelbeano]

@@captainkaiju2273 he was fired

[@usrevenge]

​@@benjiro8793 eh they added server persistence like last year. You can go drop something on a pallet at a specific spot and come back hours later and it will still be there. Crashed ships remain etc. It's still a mediocre experience but a lot of what they did does seem cool. I also love how crime works. Throwing people in prison is actually great..this would make a game like GTA online so much better imo instead of constantly respawning and griefing

[@lolololololololtoast]

One of the most strange things in Star Citizen was an Org that required members do be 35+ or have spent $500+ in Pledges.

[@TheFakeGooberGoblin]

As sum1 w $550 invested: Started development when I was 9. Have been old enough to drink for nearly half a year. Servers still aren’t playable.

[@hippieyoda1993]

Why are you dropping $550 as a teenager on a game 😭 this is why kids shouldn’t be allowed near mummy’s credit card

[@TheFakeGooberGoblin]

@hippieyoda1993 I have had a job since 14. Never not been my money. Projection perhaps? At 14 while u played COD, I worked shifts. Cope.

[@TheFakeGooberGoblin]

@@hippieyoda1993 I’ve worked at least 10 hours a week since I was 14 after I got a work permit from my principle. Nice try tho. Not all of us are you.

[@Arms2]

I played for 2 1/2 hours last night doing salvaging... Servers are unplayable?

[@stevejobs5533]

And you've spent it on this​@@TheFakeGooberGoblin

[@todo9633]

Star Citizen and crypto run on the same psychology, it's just even worse for SC because the in-group has some basis for belief in their product besides just wanting number to go up.

[@anno-fw7xn]

"All things gaming, crypto and whatever else" its funny how the person in the video has this in his bio?

[@Lt_Rik]

To be fair, our whole society runs on believe systems. Normal money is just the same as crypto, even worse imho.

[@cagneybillingsley2165]

tell me you know nothing about crypto without telling me. crypto has real world applications that make it superior to fiat as a store of value. this is why it will always be deflationary. while you're crying about how it's a ponzi scheme crypto will keep hitting time highs. sounds like a case of sour grapes

[@Azurie-e9s]

it isnt its regulated, it is real currency unlike pedo crypto

[@dean_l33]

​@@Lt_Rik Yet money even fiat still serve a useful function in society but I'm not sure about SC

[@mikoto7693]

Yes, it’s illegal in the UK to force employees to work more than 48 hours a week. We can agree to do more hours but it has to be in writing and signed. They could easily take the corporation to court and easily win.

[@juliantheapostate8295]

Correct. The Working Time Directive was written into UK law years ago

[@thomassantino392]

Ugh

[@AlexMax2742]

It is incredible how this was originally supposed to be a competitor to Elite: Dangerous of all games.

[@housemana]

other way around.

[@cake.1344]

elite was released in 1984. That was 40 years ago. Imagine if star citizen still isn't released in 40 years 🤣. Maybe we won't have to

[@BishopHeahmund]

I just got into elite dangerous after getting it on sale a few days ago, and honestly it’s so much better

[@cake.1344]

@@BishopHeahmund if you already like it after a few days you are in for a real treat

[@roetheboat1]

@@BishopHeahmund The sound design in the game is just SO good, imo. Look up videos about explosions from core mining, sounds of capital ships warping, and Thargoid interdictions. And one thing that I really like about Elite: Dangerous that I haven't found in other space games is just the sense of scale for how BIG space is. You can pick a random direction, chart a path, and pretty quickly find unexplored solar systems.

[@LancerX916]

The fact that after 12+ years, they still have not even released the single-player campaign is ridicules.

[@tkynapsex]

That’s a normal development time

[@Grogeous_Maximus]

I upgraded in 2014 in the hopes of soon playing Star Citizen. Then I upgraded my PC again in 2022. Still no Star Citizen, but thank god for BG3 lol

[@3556df44]

​@@Grogeous_MaximusThats dumb. I backed the game in 2012 knowing it would take 15 years to make 🤷‍♂️

[@rapdactyl]

I backed the game right at the start (even got the fancy metal bronze card in my wallet!) and told myself I'd only play once the campaign was done 🫠...so it's still not even installed lol

[@rapdactyl]

@@3556df44 That's great, but most people expected the game to be much further along than it is. We're over 10 years from when it was kickstarted and we're still not even close to having a finished game. BG3 had less funding and less time - not only is it feature complete, but it is a MASTERPIECE that will sit forever as one of the best games ever made. I did some quick research - BG3 cost 15% of what Star Citizen raised as of 2022. I don't think there's a reasonable excuse for why the Star Citizen project is in its current state. The people who funded it (I'm including myself here) deserved better for this much money.

[@AndyLundell]

Relocating an office suddenly and with as little warning as possible is an old and time-honored way of reducing headcount and/or replacing experienced workers with low-paid newbies. Desperate companies have been using that trick for generations. Probably centuries.

[@ageoflove1980]

The sunk cost fallacy syndrome is so deep with everyone involved with this "game" , that any normal conversation is impossible. People are so invested that they are no longer able to zoom out and deal with the simple fact that the state this "game" is in after 12 years and $700 million is simply inexcusable. Wheter this is simply the cause of incomptence or more dark reasons like willfully dragging it out as long as possible to be able to extract more money I dont know. But I think is actually way more interesting a social experiment rather than looking at it from a game development perspective.

[@TheRealManOfSteel]

You are sad and uninformed if you believe throwing money at something makes it get done faster.

[@Titere05]

Yeah, the excuse that they're just prioritising different doesn't cut it anymore. Whatever your prioritised first other than stability and gameplay loops, it should've been done long ago already

[@123Andersonev]

People don't care because you can play the game now, also it's a bit like watching a community build a cathedral and you get 90% of the way through and then people start saying 'fuck it I cant be bothered to build the steeple', anyway most of the video seems like a defence of game journalists, but at no point was it mentioned how game journalism is funded (ad revenue from publishers) of which Star Citizen doesn't have one, for this reason game journalism has never particularly been favourable to the project since the beginning because hypothetically it up ends the existing business model, that being said the rest of the stuff about funding and crunches is all true, the end bit I'd tend to think is speculative or not quite the full story and more likely to have something to do with qualifying for government subsidies/tax relief like they did for SQ42, so in that instance it could possibly be a mobile game on unity/unreal or the like, will have to wait until there is an announcement.

[@ageoflove1980]

@@TheRealManOfSteel Well I dont think thats it. Its probably way more complex from a psychologic point of view. Its like people who gave Chirs Roberts (a lot of) money are almost held hostage mentally. I mean, a straight up scam is easy. You give money, you get nothing in return, it sucks and you walk away with a valuable lesson not to fall for that again. Star Citizen however doesnt just walk away but they keep promising and keep giving small amounts of game over the year, drawing people in. Almost like a Vegas casino. Because those slot achines do pay out every now and then because if it was impossible to win, nobody would ever play. Plus you keep up a steady stream of dopamine hits by constantly providing near wins... Anyway, there are libraries full of studies how casinos manage to get people to do obviously stupid things. And Star Citizen really seems to employ a lot of the same carrot on a stick tactics, providing just enough over the years to keep people hooked but never satisfied so they always need to spend a bit more in order to chase that dragon that is the "ultimate game in another universe where everything is possible and they are the top dogs". Or they have just absolutely no clue what they are doing and have just been flushing money down the toilet for the last 12 years and I am giving them way too much credit in suspecting there is an actual plan behind it. Thats perfectly possible too :D

[@sansai81]

You found the people unable to engage in a reasonable conversation.

[@InfiniteWatermelon]

Very balanced analysis and good call on the disproportional reactions to that article. I'm a backer of this project, and there are things CIG does that absolutely look bad and deserve all the criticism.

[@SFtheWolf]

I still have my original backer card that has my deadname on it. star citizen took longer to come out than I did.

[@yaldabaoth2]

Even people knew what Chris Roberts did in the past, none of this is surprising.

[@Diarmuhnd]

The "2 more years" line at the last SC 'fundraiser' made me laugh hard. I'm glad I got a refund for my 300$ pledge when Roberts rolled back single player for more money. *Be safe and have fun Kira & friends*

[@KabelkowyJoe]

"It will be available next year, maybe year and half" Elon Musk for last 10 years Its scam by design

[@DeaconPain]

The game has created a community of toxic desperate weirdos that will absolutely prevent outsiders and newbies from wanting to play with them. The games doomed on all fronts.

[@ignskeletons]

My friend per-ordered this and told me to as a FRESHMAN in high school, I'm now 27 years old. Completed all of high school, did some years in college, climbed a small corporate ladder, and moved in with my partner in another state, and the game is still not out.

[@sandweed]

A friend from school asked me to build him a computer that could run Star Citizen, in 2016.

[@heinzriemann3213]

Don't worry, your grandchildren will have loads of fun with it.

[@StratumPress]

You're a cop?

[@tgs7515]

I remember planning out and building the “cutting edge” PC that was going to use to play Star Citizen. Even bought myself a kickass HOTAs system and everything. That was over 8 years and three PCs ago.

[@sandweed]

@@tgs7515 we all got Crobbed!

[@Wastingsometimehere]

It's honestly impressive how you can charge $10,000 USD for a virtual ship. In a game that doesn't technically exist yet. People pay it. You still bleed millions somehow.

[@Argumemnon]

Well, some people bought tiles on a crappy earth map.

[@captainkingpin6836]

the most expensive ship is only $3,000 SC isnt Star Atlas

[@allthatishere]

What is there not to get here? CIG has like a 1000+ employees and 4 large studios across the world... how do you *NOT* bleed money with this kind of overhead??

[@tysonburns9535]

I have no sympathy for people who pay hundreds or thousands for ships in game. If they are "stoopid" enough to buy them, CIG will sell them.

[@Magnumaniac]

@@captainkingpin6836 Only $3000 - LOL. Newsflash - you are part of the problem.

[@Hengebobs]

Eh, I got the original $35 thing like... 10+ years ago? Don't even remember anymore. The "star citizen community" is basically the living embodiment of the "sunk cost fallacy" refusing to admit ANY negative reality because they not only had their hopes pinned on the project, the invested huge sums of time and money into it.

[@scevvin7788]

Backed in 2012 and while playing it still blows me away...I'm continually disappointed by how slowly things have been developing. Even coming to an almost stand still.

[@LuaanTi]

Mind, this is a normal thing in any engineering project - as things get bigger, it gets progressively harder to do anything. Which is why engineers try quite hard to split big projects into separate parts that can be engineered as independently from each other as possible. And why when you expect you're going to be making a really big project, you build it that way from the start, rather than following "industry standard practices" that were originally developed for a few weeks to months long garage projects, eh? :D

[@davedoor1084]

@@LuaanTiI don’t understand why they just focus on one thing at a time? I understand like it came from nothing but 700 million feels like it should have way more than it has right now even if it’s hard I understand, that it is still crazy

[@nebulajumper6216]

21:40 It is absolutly a re-writing of history. Like many other things. CIG and the faithful backers/youtubers are changing the narative all the time. From past events, to what and when features will be delivered or the actual state of the game. Funny thing is that everything is still searchable online. Even the original kickstarter is still there, but when talking about that, we get "that was a long time ago, since then the community asked for a different game". So what about the people who gave their money during kickstarter for the game that was described there? Very respectful indeed.

[@predacon]

thats always been the narritive, painting that as a rewrite is disingenuous aaf

[@nebulajumper6216]

​@@predacon I was there from day one in 2012. Then we would get the spiritual successor of Freelancer. A single player game with a PU component of around 100 systems. At no point did we pledge for a "risky" project. We even had an approximated release date of 2014. This is the first line of the project description on kickstarter: "The great news is that we’ve already raised enough money to ensure this project will happen!" It's just below the "no pay to win" part. Does that sound risky to you? So. Could you please link here an offfical statement of CIG from around 2013 where they say that we where in for a risky project? And please don't say "But the project now is not the one they started with, it's way more ambitious" because that would only proove our point that they keep on changing the narative and the scope of the game.

[@nebulajumper6216]

@@predacon From the kickstarter in 2012 page: Risks and challenges We are aiming for a AAA game experience. But depending on the funding levels reached, we may have to limit the experience for the initially released game version. Nonetheless, Chris Roberts and his teams have shown consistently that they are able to develop epic story-based games. Even with our very limited self-funding we have been able to do already a lot of work which is why we can show you not just concept art and a cinematic trailer, but an extensive demo of actual game play. So, we are confident that even with limited means we will be able to deliver an amazing experience. And The great news is that we’ve already raised enough money to ensure this project will happen! But we don’t want to stop there. We have a lot more we want to add to Star Citizen and we need your help to do it! Does this sound that the tell us it will be risky? Or does this tell us that in 2012, the game is in a good state and that even without our money, the game will happen. Our money would only add to the experience. So anything different from that kickstarter page is considered "re-writing" history. Because this was an official page to request money. So what part is disingenuous af again? We who state facts or anyone who tries to back CIG in their ever freature kreep game and try to tell us that it always was the plan from the start.

[@gravity00x]

They are re writing the narrative. They now just recently introduced an episodic community "show", where they discuss "hot topics" aka concerns of the community. But they are nowhere near any actual concerns, like the main flagship features of the most recent update being completely broken and thus rendering the entire game absolutely unplayable. Instead they focus on bugs of their recent cashcow and how they are already working on fixing them. I'd say they know how to shovel their own grave, but thats not the case, they are focusing on their whales and trying to make them happy (those insert swearword here DO NOT PLAY the game, but just roleplay as a space commander IRL and on reddit, while wearing their knitted spacepajamas (quite fffffin literally), so there is no reason to make the game playable for the people who give them most of their money - Normal backers who just purchased the entry level kits are treated like flies that must be swatted when they demand the most basic basics of the game be made playable again after CiG completely broke them. But instead CiG just fix their 700$ (YES, that is the price tag of that recent cashcow) larping spacecaptain toy and move on to breaking the game even further.

[@alexandrebelair4360]

@@predacon Prove it.

[@siener]

The Star Citizen Kickstarter was in 2012. A year later, Larian Studios had their Kickstarter for Divinity: Original Sin. The game was pretty janky and unpolished when it was released, but it became a surprise hit, so Larian took the money they made and developed D:OS Enhanced Edition, which made the game feel a lot more modern and polished. They then funded D:OS 2 with another Kickstarter and it was an even bigger hit. With this track record they convinced Wizards of the Coast to let them develop Baldur's Gate 3, which ended up being possibly the greatest CRPG of all time. The point is not just that this all happened while Star Citizen was in development. It's that Larian started small and built on their previous successes. If they set out to built the biggest, best and most ambitious CRPG ever back in 2013, I don't think they would have succeeded.

[@TheTonyMcD]

Star citizen is perfect example of why publishers are a necessary evil

[@gravity00x]

No. Two wrongs don't make a right. I'd rather SC fail than get ripped off by EA for the same game every year, being resold to me out of peer pressure and forced abandonment of older titles that are still perfectly functional and up to date.

[@bellissimo4520]

@@gravity00x I'd really much rather have EA sell me the same game every year, as long as it's a GAME that I can ACTUALLY PLAY; that has a complete gameplay loop, and is not in constant Alpha anymore. You are coping hard if you're defending the mess that is the Star Citizen development.

[@bellissimo4520]

Funnily enough - this has already happened once. With "Freelancer". Chris Roberts headed development of that game at "Digital Anvil"; and the company was in dire straits and the game in an infinite development hell thanks to Robert's infamous feature creep habits. Along came Microsoft, bought out Digital Anvil to get Freelancer published - with the condition that Chris Roberts had to go. They stepped in, cut off a ton of planned features, and forced the devs to define a final feature set, and finish the game. And finally it was released, and it was great. If Robert's had had his way, "Freelancer" would still be in development today.

[@gravity00x]

@@bellissimo4520 What part of "TWO WRONGS dont make a right" didnt you understand so that you had to misrepresent that as me defending CIG. Reading is hard, especially when its quite literally in the first three words, I know.

[@bellissimo4520]

@@gravity00x The failure in your argument is that publishers are NOT inherently evil, and it's sometimes good they push the devs to actually deliver something. Read up on the development history of "Freelancer"; another game that would still be in development if Roberts hadn't been removed from development by the publisher (in that case Microsoft).

[@wuztron]

Every time labor laws in many of these other countries come up I'm reminded of how ass-backward the US can be sometimes.

[@cherry9787]

Corporations started the US

[@dommguard]

Sometimes?

[@slashednoodles]

@@wuztron that's the price of "freedom". LOL

[@sayLeotardbutsayitChinese]

@@slashednoodlesFreedom costs a buck .05

[@Jansmaaa]

The citizens of said country like to yell USA and puff their chests at being born in the country that is leading the democratic world... and not realizing that they live in an oligarchy.

[@ministryofwrongthink6962]

The reason so many defend SC and say it’s not a scam is because it isn’t by normal standards… there is no “rug pull” because “the rug” itself is what makes money for the company. This seems all well and fair, but the thing about constantly dangling a “carrot” in front of people is the fact that some people actually want to eat the carrots you promised

[@captainkaiju2273]

Someone needs to remind CR what happened last time he led a "dream project space game" back in the early 2000s. The best thing to happen to Freelancer was Roberts leaving and Microsoft getting things done.

[@mercenum5186]

Do you know Robert's left Freelancer in such a mess that it still took Microsoft 2 years to cobble the game together with him out of the way?

[@Ronusti]

He didn't leave. He was fired. And banned from entering the premises.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

How is a game cut off at the knees and lacking a lot of its core functionality "the best thing to happen"? I suppose if you really like Starfield, then you'll think that's a good thing.

[@honeybadger6275]

@@Billy-bc8pk Because if they hadn't the game would have never been released, just like how scam citizen will never be released.

[@NonameEthereal]

​@@Billy-bc8pk Freelancer released to great acclaim, having very good ratings, and has become a cult classic. You see, getting rid of him meant Microsoft was able to release a good game. As opposed to not releasing any game. Or releasing something that technically has all of that "core functionality" but... said core functionality doesn't work, so... Yay?

[@ectothermic]

Having this in the background while I build my 20th base in No Man's Sky with my friends. Ah... good stuff. Edit: NDAs to keep you from declaring you were fired is WILD.

[@mercenum5186]

NMS is great! So much content and the free updates keep coming

[@BismuthKaiju]

Been playing NMS for 10 years, and everytime I come back theres new stuff, the new water tech added SO much. I love hello games. Light No Fire is going to consume me.

[@Tameem3000]

8 guys in a drowning basement made NMS. Star Citizen has 1000 plus employees working in a freaking real life size space ship. Sean Murray is what Citizen cults think Chris Roberts is.

[@LoneHorizons]

It's mad the company thinks they can make demands of what people do after they're no longer employees. Keep paying me then, if you want me to pretend I still work for you.

[@kiwd-dynamic]

two completely different games, with different publics and different ideas... absolutely no point in comparing them

[@HaviccB]

I'm proud of them...12 years and they still haven't executed the inevitable rug pull

[@latjolajban81]

I have poured alot of money into Star Citizen. Loved the dream. Played it alot some years ago. Still have hopes for it. "Development takes time" people say. "It's still an alpha". Yeah, but when not even the freaking flight model is done 12 years into development, in a game about freaking space flight, it just shows they don't know wtf they are doing or wtf they want to do with the game. The flight model should be the most foundational priority 1 system in the game. The first thing to nail down, and it's still not done.

[@planescaped]

Yeah you can't actually do space stuff in your space game.... but watch this mud deformation tech! See how each individual footprint renders as your hair grows in real time! It's sUpEr ImMerSiVe!

[@Billy-bc8pk]

Ehh, the thing about the flight model is that it has a bunch of prerequisite tech that they had to R&D to get to the flight model they wanted. If they could have licenced it off the shelf they would have, but there isn't anything to licence off the shelf, because the only other company building a similar flight model (and physics system) is Keen Software House, and you cannot licence the VRage Engine (yet). So CIG had to build a similar physics system (Maelstrom) and similar tech for flight control systems. It took Keen Software House over a decade to build out the VRage physics to where it is today, so it's not like it's something you can just toss together and call it a day.

[@Qorelin]

@@Billy-bc8pk It's been over a decade...

[@Billy-bc8pk]

@@Qorelin Yes, and that's how R&D works -- they wanted physicalised armour for the ships that also affect the ship's mass. You can't just hand-wave that away, you actually have to engineer that system. Well, technically, when NaturalMotion was still around, you could licence tech that did it for you in the form of the Euphoria physics system. But unfortunately Rockstar scooped them up into their pipeline and prevented the competition from getting their hands on it. Even still, CIG had to build out a bespoke physics system on their own, because, as stated, the only other middleware that calculates physicalised armour penetration is the VRage Engine, and that engine is not available to be licenced. So once again, CIG had to build a system to achieve something similar. That is why it has taken a decade. Physics are hard.

[@Qorelin]

@@Billy-bc8pk Oh so CIG will take 3 decades to push out the flight model then? Because it's too hard?

[@mercenum5186]

Chris Roberts isnt some perfectionist, he just likes milking whoever is paying him. The guy was unemployed before Star Citizen and his wife joked he could get a job if it didnt work out. The reason he went the crowd funded route was no publisher would touch any game he was a part of. Last game he worked on 20+ years ago he had to be booted from it for it to get done! Roberts wasnt a fan of publishers because they have timelines and demand accountability. Now he has what he wants: a project he can tinker with endlessly while collecting an undisclosed salary. With no timelines or accountability. And what does he have to show for it after all this time and money? A tech demo built around a store... Some truly "ambitious" stuff alright...

[@spooky_zen]

reddit is sheep central

[@inthefade]

There is something inherent in the design of Reddit that allows corruption of the moderator positions. I was using Reddit before the great Digg exodus, and now I don't even go to the niche subreddits.

[@l3lackoutsMedia]

Its like snowpiercer... if you slow the train down or stop it for too long it will never come back online again

[@johndonovan7018]

snowpiercer went to total shit in season 4. like what the actual fuck

[@patrik3482]

​@@johndonovan7018 That's because only the movie is good

[@johndonovan7018]

@@patrik3482 well season 1-2 was ok, s3 questionably and now its full on stupid. the movie was good yes but we only have the spin off series now

[@KiteoHatto]

Crobber is fulfilling his dream of being a ceo and a movie director off the backs of others by selling them promises for over a decade of a game that can never be.

[@honeybadger6275]

Yup, there's even 2 or 3 of them defending this mess in the comments section right now.

[@unironicallydel7527]

The decade or more wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't monetize a game they dont even have, and their audience, so heavily. They literally sell ships they haven't even made yet. Not to mention this has been, and will be should it ever come out, be the most expensive game ever made. So ow are they not in a better state given they have pretty much all the money in the world to do so.

[@heinzriemann3213]

I would be disappointed if he hadn't at least siphoned off 50 million into some hidden bank account.

[@MrSheduur]

It is a CHRIS ROBERTS game, what did you effin expect? The dude never delivers what he promises. This has happened so many times now, you might even call him a professional scammer, even if that is probably a bith harsh, but man... all you guys waiting over a decade for this thing to materialize, I don't know wether to just laugh at you or feel sorry for you. I think I got a bridge to sell you somewhere, it will be the greatest and most advanced bridge ever... maybe... probably.

[@jimtroeltsch5998]

lol this star citizen thing reminds me of the movie Synodoche New York, about a man creating a play that is like, a verison of his reality, so he constructs this enormous set that replicates NEw York and hires actors to play himself and his wife and stuff. Star Citizens like that, just the huge expanding superficial version of a grand vision that keeps changing and becoming unsustainable

[@oliver_twistor]

I think some people (and perhaps that includes Chris Roberts) are simply afraid to finish or suceed with tasks. They keep building and changing, because they want to avoid that empty feeling when something's finished and can't be worked on anymore. That thing might be a house (many people keep remodeling their home in perpetuum), a game project, a painting, or something different. As long as their project still is a work in progress, they can push away that feeling of emptiness and dread a little bit.

[@BismuthKaiju]

I love that movie and I totally get you, I imagine chris roberts walking around an impossibly big warehouse of cubicles, multi-leveled, tens of thousands of developers, a new department is building the next step in computing technology to be able to run the game, the persistent universe has been through 3 galactic recessions, it still has not hit 1.0.

[@abandonall]

I tried this game last year, it was so broken i couldnt even navigate out of the spawn area, completely unplayable, like 15fps on a pretty decent machine

[@jimmmybacon9043]

Star citizen during free fly is unplayable cause everything is still on one server

[@topy706]

yea i tried playing it in like 2022, i went to the floating city above the gas giant and my machine absolutely tanked in FPS. this is the antithesis of fun. to be fair performance used to be much, much, much worse years ago but its still far from acceptable

[@Sundaydish1]

It was like that 5 years ago when I bought it. For 2 weeks I couldn't even open the door to the spawn area. When I finally got to my ship it was unplayable. If this is Chris Roberts dream I would hate to see his nightmare.

[@UCs6ktlulE5BEeb3vBBOu6DQ]

Every year I go on a stream to see whats up and the dude or the dudette launch the game, and within MINUTES, die to a door, fall through the floor toward the center of the planet, etc. And don't you dare say anything bad for you shall be crucified by the army of white knight of the Holy Backers Alliance.

[@boldCactuslad]

hypothetically this will be fixed in version 4.0 with server meshing, but i have some doubts about that feature coming as planned this year, even if the early "evocati" player test groups said it was great.

[@bfwebster]

I’m also reminded of a line from The Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemminway. A character is asked, “How did you go bankrupt?” The character says, “Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” That’s how I expect CIG and Star Citizen to come to an end.

[@christopherbaker7209]

Chris Roberts is a terrible CEO. He is responsible for the massive financial waste that Star Citizen has accrued. If this was a publicly traded company he would have been fired years ago.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

Which is good it's not a public traded company, because under Chris they developed more new middleware suites in 12 years than any other tech start-up in the history of software development, and pioneered some groundbreaking networking technologies that don't exist anywhere else to scale. So you're right, if this was a publicly traded company they would have fired him and put out a buggy, broken mess like Star Wars Outlaws and people would have complained that it was an unambitious, terrible, boring game that everyone would have dunked on and forgotten in two weeks. I don't see how the latter scenario is a better scenario -- indulging in stagnation for the sake of indulging in stagnation.

[@Golgot100]

@christopherbaker7209 It'll be interesting to see what happens in Q1. CIG's main investor get their first option to withdraw then. (This was revealed in their rather murky accounts in March). The investors may not decide to enact it, but they could certainly wave it around and get some changes made at CIG. (It was already noticeable that the accounts were done by PwC this year, a change which was likely forced on CIG).

[@unironicallydel7527]

@@Billy-bc8pk They did, put out a buggy, broken mess like star wars outlaws. Given your own cult's logic, the 'game' is out and playable. And people have dunked on it, and have forgotten about it.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

@@unironicallydel7527 If they forgot about it, then funding would have stopped and CIG would have shut down long ago.

[@danielcohn-bendit701]

Chris Roberts is an obsessive-compulsive. And as long as the game brings in money, it will NEVER be finished. He will “perfect” it forever.

[@uvicjames]

I find that to be weird. In software engineering there is a longstanding rule against "gold plating" software.

[@FuryBattleface]

If they are starting a third game, that will definitely be the end of Star Citizen.

[@asianboyyy117]

Agreed

[@nathanielbeven9052]

i logged into it today and its just embarrassing. so much changes yet still just broken and shallow

[@antearesgamer]

Ambitious game 'BEING' created....not 'EVER' created. Looks like a duck, smells like a duck, walks like a duck...guess what it is? A scam.

[@Hpalhazred]

The second game of No Man's Sky creators will be shipped before this space travesty.

[@l3lackoutsMedia]

Elite has done it the correct way. They started with a shallow experience a minimal viable product, but with a solid core and just kept expanding that again and again and again.

[@zadstarfall1696]

yeah and we are about to get colonization and with that way more exploration gameplay,so SC looses again

[@firestarter000001]

Agreed. Tough to be fair, tough i like Elite, a tiny bit of that Roberts perfectionism would be welcomed here. When i used to play more the missions were so unbalanced it hurt. A dangerous combat missions with a storyline that took a long time, was paying a tiny amount compared to some risk free fast activities. Also many missions i have tried, i couldnt finish, becase of bugs, or me not knowing what to do, the missions being a convoluted mess. You can say its a skill issue , but i tried really hard and i couldnt understand what i was supposed to do. So imho tough they did it the right way, a lot of the content could use solid revamp/fix, so its accesible for most players. Nowadays when i play i ts fun, but i stick just to combat missions "kill x amount of that", plan to check out the Thargoids once im rdy...

[@lordcorgi6481]

The problem is that they don’t know how to launch the game then have updates. They’re trying to basically make WoW except instead of having expansions they want to make WoW at the time when WoW finally shuts down. The obvious problems come that WoW has had 20 years of patches and updates and many to come. The biggest problem is that nobody knows what WoW will look like when it shuts down.

[@RJN9008]

The game isn’t near a technical state to launch as anything other than “early access” and ol’ Chris is the last person on the planet I would trust to get a game to that point.

[@BlazeMakesGames]

I think that the core problem is something we've seen time and time again: a famous creative gets so popular, that they are given infinite carte blanche to do whatever they want, and as a result they flounder constantly. Almost no major project is a solo endeavour. Feedback is given from friends or other people working on it that help refine various ideas into the best state they can be, or at least in a better state than they would be if they were completely unchallenged. The classic example to go off of is Star Wars. George Lucas was a huge part of the original trilogy, but he didn't make those movies by himself. It was a collaborative effort between him and countless other people. But then when the Prequels were made, George was "The Star Wars" guy, he was considered a genius, and to question his work was heresy. And as a result they lost that collaborative element as all of George's ideas were approved without question. And the end result suffered for it. The same thing is happening here. Chris may be a genius sure, I won't contest that. But his past work almost certainly had that same level of collaboration helping refine his ideas and keep him in check. And now all of those limiters are removed. He can do anything he wants for as long as he wants without anyone to tell him no. But as a result he's trapped himself in this infinite funding loop where he keeps wanting to make things bigger and better and nobody is there to tell him to stop

[@TwistdTrip]

I honestly feel sorry for the people that backed early on and expected them to follow the timeline they set out to achieve. Beyond that, I have no pity or care for Star Citizen, even if the game was complete, there is so much p2w I wouldn't play. The idea of competing with people that have spent 5k, 10k, 48k+ isn't appealing and you're either going to invalidate that to bring in new players or you will always be playing second fiddle to those players for a long time.

[@The24Gamer]

I only paid $40 and have racked up at least 200hrs, really enjoyable when it runs well, it's far from p2w, the vast majority of the game isn't PvP

[@gravity00x]

the techdemo which is SC is amazing, if you paid like 30 bucks and happen to get to play for 15 minutes before the servers either implode or bugs make you wanna punch your monitor. if you haven't paid a couple grand and are a space enthusiast, despite most things running like dookie or being absolutely broken, it's still worth it, because there is nothing quite like it. As incompetent as they are on the technical side of the game, especially the servers or content wise, which prevent you from enjoying the techdemo, you'd still get your moneys worth. The fidelity of the ships alone, my god.

[@alexandrebelair4360]

@@The24Gamer If you can buy things that gives you an advantage then it's P2W. It doesn't matter if you can farm for it, it's still P2W. If 2 players start an account at the same time and they have the same skill level except one spent 50$ and the other one spends 40k$. Who as the advantage? Who has more fun? Who can do more stuff?

[@alexandrebelair4360]

@@gravity00x Prove that you get your money worth. You need to prove that money worth isn't subjective, give me a few peer reviewed studies from unbiased sources. Good luck with that.

[@markw8324]

​@@alexandrebelair4360 are you retarded? A peer review about how much you enjoy something?

[@theroguerider]

This is the world now. Seemingly just popped up out of nowhere. People attach themselves to something and people try to explain, reason, discuss, etc and those attached attack. An opinion is gospel and no one can tell them otherwise. It will only get worse.

[@BetaDude40]

It's always been the world, it's just usually these people didn't have access to the entirety of humanity with the click of a button

[@slouch186]

how is there a convention for a game that isn't really out?

[@alexpetrov8871]

>isn't really out "out", "released", "alpha", "early access" - these are just words. De facto the game is ready to buy and play.

[@unironicallydel7527]

@@alexpetrov8871 no, a game isnt. A shell is.

[@sayLeotardbutsayitChinese]

"Finished" is also a word. It means done, completed, released -- existing as an immutable product, which it currently does not. Theyre just words. Its their definition thats important

[@ajzmn3538]

They are awaiting the advent of the coming game; "IT WILL COME! DO NOT DESPAIR! ".

[@SupaFly-gx1zo]

It's for advertisement. Use the cultists to scream to the heavens about their new god, so new followers can find the church and give tithes. It's all just a way to fund the project further.

[@vide0gameCaster]

14:40 if you were about to drop a sponsor on a coffee maker machine or coffee brand it would have been one of the smoothest sponsor insertion in the history of youtube.

[@sbmasonator]

This is the video game versions of what happened to the real estate market in China a few years back. It was a business model that relied on un-ending demand growth, which is quite simply not possible. The reality is the game will never really “release”. It’s a joke.

[@planescaped]

At this point, even if the game ever does fully come out, I'm not interested. Primarily because of the sleazy and gross way they made and sold the damn thing.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

So what would have been your suggestion to gather revenue to build out five studios and the R&D to build out more than half a dozen bespoke middleware suites?

[@bigwezz]

​@Billy-bc8pk you can shill for CIG, but it wont make the game come out 👍

[@D2Rugz]

@@Billy-bc8pk Don't waste money on bespoke solutions for industry-solved hurdles would be my suggestion.

[@hippieyoda1993]

⁠​⁠@@Billy-bc8pktell me what the ‘bespoke middleware suites’ are doing for the game and it’s continued development.

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

@@Billy-bc8pk Take a loan. Or release a smaller game and then use the money to make improved sequels.

[@hershmergersh6733]

By the time this game is ever done they'll delay it to remaster it. Failure couldn't happen to a more deserving company

[@shanebovell6733]

There is NO NEED for them to even finish the game when people make bank just selling AIR and ACCESS to it.

[@Luziehl]

how come a project that is reaching Duke Nukem Forever levels of failure still has anyone defending it ?

[@cabritsanscorgaming]

How is it a failure if it's still being developed? Duke Nukem, in contrast, changed both their developers AND their engine (multiple times, if I remember correctly). No correlation to SC then...

[@Luziehl]

@@cabritsanscorgaming besides layoffs/restructuring already happening in CIG for months now, a lot of their demos receive complaints for being pretty much unplayable so not the best argument

[@cabritsanscorgaming]

@@Luziehl am I assuming right you never worked in game dev? I'm asking because games are broken until we stop developing it (which is then deemed "frozen") at which point only bug fixes are allowed (or safe patches, in case you have a cool project manager). We are not there yet, broken is to be expected.

[@KingKooba22]

@@cabritsanscorgaming lmao the classic "GUESS YOU AINT A DEV THEN?" "GUESS YOU AINT AN ENGINEER"

[@Luziehl]

@@cabritsanscorgaming i see, so if Duke Nukem Forever had taken 20 years it would have been a "good game" then ? its not even about being in the industry, your logic doesn't hold to any kind of scrutiny, but hey you're free to defend it

[@Beatle1283]

Noman Sky achieved what Star Citizen couldn't for a fraction of the price.

[@BeHeaven616]

They really arent comparable tho

[@robbantor]

Lol no....

[@omnislide]

You are comparing The Simpsons Hit & Run with GTA

[@vinaypatel8578]

Well, how can you really compare a Norman game to a non-Norman game.

[@K3vyB]

Ultra L take, go away fake gamer.

[@RundOnline]

I've heard people in our WoW guild talk about backing Star Citizen when we we're in Mist of Pandaria. That's 2012, if they invest they still haven't have a release, lol.

[@Penfolduk001]

Personally I'm looking forward to the Squadron 42 film. Which appears to be the only part of the project that currently has a chance of working...

[@BasslimeRex]

Great video, really nice breakdown. But... The choice of text highlighting colours in this video is absurd. Dark red background and black text? Yellow background and white text? Seriously? Lol. Every time the text was highlighted like that, it essentially just hid the words. Also, yes, my eyes are shit.

[@xoxDefLeppardxox]

I’m not too knowledgeable on this game or developer but that HQ building situation looks exactly like the pre-Elon Twitter building. Crazy lavish office, they even had workers who did literally nothing. It was all an investor fun house- it looks good for investors.

[@RyanStillGames]

Masterful marketing though. They managed to turn scope creep into the main selling point. 😉

[@Illusive1313]

The only way to navigate Star Citizen out of the vaporware of the century category is firing Chris Roberts, cutting down on the feature creep in a big way and making the cultists realize that they burned millions of dollars.

[@tonythesuperperson]

The idea that this game can run into financial issues speaks to how mismanaged the project is

[@Aquahutch702]

A collosal lesson in controlling scope creep.

[@Tom_Quixote]

No, a collossal lesson in how profitable it is to use scope creep to string people along and keep the money rolling in without ever delivering because that would stop the gravy train.

[@heinzriemann3213]

​@@Tom_Quixotethis

[@samiraperi467]

Won't be long until it's been ONE BILLION DOLLARS! I wonder if the game exit alpha/beta/whatever within my life time. I'm giving myself maybe 20 years on the outside.

[@Rietto]

It can join the list under Rings of Power for an example that money can't automatically generate quality.