R.C. Sproul on the Cessationist Convictions of the Reformers

[@stephenbailey9969]

Some of the Reformers were influenced by a growing rationalism in Europe, turning the faith in a more purely intellectual direction. Lutherans and Anglicans, on the other hand, were more open to mystery and miracle.

[@HankSemoreButz]

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[@ajmittendorf]

I learned something important: I never knew when or what event caused the closing of the biblical canon. Now I know: It was the death of the last Apostle. NOT the last disciple, but the longest-living Apostle after the ascension of Christ. Before this video, I thought it was closed at the same event as the assembling of the books of the Bible, but now that I think about it, that doesn't make sense. Even AFTER God has called him home, R. C. Sproul is still teaching.

[@HankSemoreButz]

Have to disagree. No where in the Bible does God say that miracles, signs, and wonders have an expiration date…

[@xaviersonofgod4464]

​@@HankSemoreButzI don't think that's what he was saying. I think he was referring to scripture being written, not the gift of prophecy being walked out.

[@Completeincristo]

In the days of the apostles and early church , miracles were performed to authenticate that what they were preaching was true.

[@vademecum8184]

"... they claim to have Apostolic Revelation in this day." Sproul clearly did not understand the point of prophecy. According to Paul in the First Corinthians it was to edify the church and also to reveal hidden things in order to lead people to Christ. Now that has nothing to do with the Apostolic Revelation.

[@Completeincristo]

Apostolic revelation is the revelation of scripture. What else you think they did ? Read Acts and the epistles.

[@vademecum8184]

@Completeincristo For more than four decades I've been studying the New Testament. Who do you mean by "they"? Please read 1Corinthians 14:24-25. It's not about Apostolic Revelation.

[@Completeincristo]

@@vademecum8184 the apostles and disciples

[@vademecum8184]

@@Completeincristo in 1 Cor. 14:24 Paul says that "EVERYBODY is prophesying". Clearly he's not talking about the Apostles. So it's not about Scriptural authority. It's God communicating with individuals through personal prophecy.

[@Completeincristo]

@@vademecum8184 I also mentioned disciples . But I truly believe that God reveals Himself through scripture. Mainly

[@JonJaeden]

Let's consider the evidence Peter and Paul said the gifts continue until Christ's return ... The coming of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) was accompanied by the manifestation of tongues. It was what drew the crowd's attention to the apostles and those with them. Peter declared what they were seeing and hearing was synonomous with the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. So, when he told the crowd, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit," he was saying they would receive the same Holy Spirit that had just fallen on the apostles. Further, that same Holy Spirit that had just been observed, was "for you and your children and for all who are far off - for all whom the Lord our God will call." Peter is clearly saying what you have just seen continues until God stops calling people. Paul's letter to the Corinthians arrives in A.D. 53 or 54. It's important to recognize this is a letter meant to be understood at the time by its recipients. It's not a riddle. It contains its own referents and it explains itself. Among those who first hear it in the Corinthian church are believers who will still be alive after all the apostles have died and -- cessationists say -- gifts have ceased. He begins: "... even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you - so that you are not lacking in any gift (charisma), as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Cor 1:6-8 There's nothing in Paul's introduction that indicates he's gaslighting them with false hopes. No one reading the letter had any reason to believe those gifts Paul linked to Christ's sustenance of his church were going to cease before "the end." NO ONE, including Paul writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, thought the close of the canon in A.D. 100 (which would not be officially defined for another 300 years after that) was intended by anything in 1 Corinthians. The gifts -- charisma -- are linked to Christ's sustenance of his church "to the END" (teloj G5056 in Strong's Concordance). Indeed, 1 Cor 1:6-8 becomes the referent for 1 Cor 13:8-10: "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the PERFECT (teleioj G5046 - from G5056) comes, the partial will pass away." Anyone reading the letter in A.D. 53 would immediately recall what Paul said at the beginning of his letter. Not only are the two passages parallel in their idea, they are parallel in the Greek. Paul's "the perfect" (or "completeness," as others have translated it) is "teleioj," and derived from 1 Cor 1:8's "the end" -- "teloj" -- which Paul equates to "the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." Actually, [X-until-Y, where Y=Day of Our Lord Jesus Christ] is a recurrent theme in 1 Corinthians. In Chapter 5, Paul orders the church to remove the man who had his father's wife and "deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." DELIVERED TO SATAN--until--THE DAY OF THE LORD ... X-until-Y. In Chapter 11 Paul corrects abuses of the Lord's Table and links the bread and cup to the Lord's death and second coming: PROCLAIM THE LORD'S DEATH--until--SECOND COMING. He does it again in Chapter 13 with tongues and prophecy. Paul's time horizon is the end of time, not 50 years in the future when the last apostle has died. Perhaps most significantly, he does it in Chapter 15 where he explicitly defines what he has meant by "the end," e.g. "teloj." Indeed, I've come to see this chapter as the primary reason he wrote the letter, because of all the troubles in the Corinthian church, this chapter addresses the most existential one. Here, Paul addresses those in the church who were beginning to doubt the dead would be resurrected. Believers had died and were still in the ground nearly 25 years after Jesus was resurrected. That didn't fit expectations. Their doubts put them at risk of denying Christ himself had risen from the dead. So Paul first makes clear the resurrection is the sine qua non of the faith -- no resurrection, then no hope, no faith, no forgiveness of sins. It's all-in or nothing. He then lays out how it all goes down and caps it off in verse 24 with "THEN COMES THE END ... 'teloj'" He bookends his letter with "the END" in Chapters 1 and 15. Christ destroys every rule and authority and power ... he destroys the final enemy, death ... he delivers the kingdom to God the Father ... he subjects himself to the Father ... and God is all in all. Until then, exercise church discipline in light of and in expectation of the day of the Lord. He will sustain his church at His Table and by the gifts until the day of the Lord, and he commands the church to continue in them (1 Cor 11:26, 14:26-33). THEN COMES THE END ... the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. This is "the perfect" and "completeness" of Chapter 13. Paul, like Peter, has said gifts of the Spirit continue "to the end." If cessationsist were correct, Peter and Paul would have to be rejected as false prophets. Cessationists who enjoy playing gotcha with charismatics and pentecostals over the very serious matter of false prophecy and other unbiblical antics might want to consider how seriously God views adding and subtracting from his word (Rev 22:18-19). False prophets only get stoned. Bible grifters lose their share in the tree of life.

[@toobsterdude]

Thank you for those fantastic verses (1 Cor 1:6-8) and arguments from scripture. Funny how the cessationists still promote the continued gift of teaching though.

[@rev.stephena.cakouros948]

''...resist that strongly'' is putting it mildly. We believe the canon was closed and once closed cannot be reopened. Any other view is Montanism. .

[@JoshuaCastro-xj2ho]

I have experienced miracles

[@MateyYComp]

The heresy of Montanism is not that they believed in ongoing revelation. In fact, almost everyone in the Church believed in ongoing revelation. Just look at Athanasius’s writings.

[@rev.stephena.cakouros948]

@@MateyYComp I would engage you in a discussion but it seems as if you did not understand what I wrote.

[@MateyYComp]

@@rev.stephena.cakouros948 Prophetic revelation is not synonymous with more Scripture. Most prophecy in biblical times did not become Scripture. So the canon of Scripture can be closed and there still remain extrabiblical prophecy.

[@HankSemoreButz]

@@MateyYCompgreat point

[@lw216316]

At the end of the book of Revelation God warned not to add to or take away. That settles it for me. By the way, the JW take away and the CLDS add to so beware.

[@MicahBurns-n3o]

So Acts 2:14-39 is over with? We are no longer in the last days? I don’t buy it. In the last days Christians will dream dreams and prophecy. The Spirit will still be poured out. Because the promise is for ALL who God will call to Himself.

[@HankSemoreButz]

Amen

[@alanmunch5779]

I don’t understand this argument. Is he talking about the Twelve apostles, or all the other apostles in the first century? Of course the 12 (or 13 including Paul) were specially chosen and unique. But if our God is the living God, and sovereign, then He communicates with His people and has a living relationship with them all through Church history. If you draw a line saying after a particular date God can no longer do what He wants to do, that is putting your man-made theology above the Word of the living God. I have never understood the cessationist viewpoint. It seems unbiblical at almost every point, and reduces Christianity to a cerebral exercise in knowledge. To say an Author is no longer allowed to say anything after completing His book just doesn’t make sense to me. God is real and living, not a dumb idol.

[@blackukulele]

If any tell you that they are apostles of Jesus Christ, ask for their birth certificates. Act 1:21-22

[@Jefleopard]

And yet, people keep creating new bibles. I’ll stick with the old ways.

[@ichernichenko]

You have not SINGLE biblical text that even hints at the end of the gifts of the Spirit. we do not put prophecies today at the same level as biblical revalation. Those are charismats and we think they are false teachers and prophets, but don't bunch up all teachings of gift of the spirit with what the charismats regurgitate.

[@HankSemoreButz]

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[@Completeincristo]

In the days of the apostles and early church , miracles were performed to authenticate that what they were preaching was true.

[@ichernichenko]

@Completeincristo show a single verse that says the truth does not need to be supported or established today or that the gifts ended?

[@Completeincristo]

@@ichernichenko what gifts are you talking about ?

[@ichernichenko]

@Completeincristo The ones that are written in the Bible.