Race Start Analysis Austrian GP 2017 Did Valtteri Bottas Jump the Start?

Anthony Davidson is at the Skypad to review all the major talking points from the Austrian Grand Prix and looks at how Valtteri Bottas secured his second F1 win.
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SKY F1 2017
FORMULA WORLD

[@user-sz9nx3lk6j]

"I'm sure he's not gonna able to replcate that again" Valterri: hold my beer

[@seesaw41]

Which race do you mean?

[@deniskaufmann6586]

szuzka '19

[@FRA_StarAl2015]

hold my porridge

[@seesaw41]

@@deniskaufmann6586 ah you mean Vettel? I think bottas did a normal start in Suzuka

[@notemucp]

@Seesaw41 i cant tell if your joking

[@joefangers8228]

That is a mix of reflex, excellent anticipation and luck.

[@Italos1985]

Joe Fangers reflex no. Because the lights was red. It was a really lucky start.

[@mabra33]

It was pure luck. It is impossible for a human being to have that good reaction time. He let the clutch go before the lights went out, but didn't jump the start.

[@pitchblack1798]

Lmao I have done that so many times in 2019 the game. Its legit like you think you jumped but you actually got super lucky

[@J4mezlo]

He anticipated it

[@paoloh885]

No reflex, definitely luck.

[@DonGranatoII]

watch and learn. that is as close as you can get without getting a penalty! Perhaps the best start in F1 history. It coudnt be better even if the clutch and the light would be connected.

[@ferrari2k]

Well, it's just... you cannot learn from this. ;) You can't learn luck :P

[@ericjiang8890]

Cough Suzuka 19

[@oxizinho]

Watch again! U can get away with a looooot more, it seams. Hungarian GP 2020.

[@jimmy_james_]

@@oxizinho if he fully jumped and didn't clutch in (mess up his own start) he would've triggered the jump start sensor. So he didn't get away with anything.

[@zachlee7945]

"that is as close as you can get without getting a penalty!" like 4 people going before the lights and no penalties later . . .

[@anttonkailio1626]

High risk high reward

[@OddPain]

Just a perfect start, everything within the allowed frame

[@DUKEOFSOUNDS]

After all that Analysis. It's now safe to say that's the most perfect start in F1 history

[@hansoosterhoff8396]

It's not a jump start, because regardless what you see on screen, a jump start is defined in the FIA rule book: "Article 36.13 of the FIA Sporting Regulations: Either of the penalties under Articles 38.3c) or d) will be imposed for a false start judged using an FIA supplied transponder which must be fitted to the car as specified." Meaning, a jump start in not determined by eye, but by sensor (transponder). There is a little slack (a few centimeters) between actual car movement, and movement measured by the transponder. This is what you saw, and what has been used by Bottas. This was both practically and theoretically the best possible start, according to what is allowed. Possible the best start ever, discussion closed!

[@maurikolu1991]

Exactly so !

[@jaymdee919]

I realise that. Based on the rules its not a jump start. However thats not what Anthony is saying. The point I was making is how can I show the tyres move while the red lights are still on using just my sky box and the fancy HD screen Anthony Davidson is using can't?

[@DimitrisPhd]

You can see with ur eyes the movement..Fuck sensor, I know by being an engineer that this movement means he started releasing the clutch so the car starts moving..The wheels didnt pass the line but he has an advantage .I dont say he won cos of that now.. The discussion over line of yours ? Are u a successor of adolf? malakismeno

[@Dphunks]

thank you for posting this, now everything is explained. I just hope that Skyf1 with a team of former f1 drivers would take the time and look for the system used for this and not use video to get the answer. He did move before red was out but within the margin of the sensors. It is the same with drag racing

[@13anomalous16]

mousikos123 you're no engineer

[@lgj1443]

Why does nobody know the rules?? Small movements are allowed as he was still in his yellow box!

[@foxtrotalphaone]

Those aren't the rules.

[@papa_mia4495]

What rules are you preferring to? Can you show me the link to that rule you just pointed out "Small movements are allowed as he was still in his yellow box"?

[@sbow2892]

Papa mia Drivers have a little bit of room to move the car inside their starting "box". This is the case because they have to adjust the clutch before the lights go off. When lights went off Valtteri was still inside the lines and therefore it wasn't a jump-start. This has been the case for past 20 years in F1.

[@papa_mia4495]

......Lul no. Once you in locked up position before the start, you will not allowed to move till the lights go off. Doesn't matter if you cross the line or not, it's against the rules that you move before the lights go off.

[@sbow2892]

Papa mia It's not against the rules. Mika Salo (One of the referees in that race) told that Valtteri was moving 0,003 before lights went off. When driver moves 0,01 seconds or more before lights goes off it's a jump-start. This is everywhere in news, it's clear as day that it wasn't a jump start.

[@peppi44]

Yeah, it was a jump start. But he was inside his starting box, so it's allowed. You should read the FIA statement.

[@ati2636]

bad rule. He couldnt stop on his position. It cause a penalty too.

[@elieawad5334]

Fanbneyl so from now on every driver should leave 1 meter in his designated starting place...anticipate the start and jump start and gain so much from it?

[@peppi44]

"The FIA has explained, however, that some movement before the lights go out is allowed because of the need occasionally for drivers to make adjustments to their clutch in those crucial moments before the start." www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130639/fia-explains-why-bottas-start-was-legal

[@kammschupper]

before the start not at the start!

[@peppi44]

Ein Teil des Ganzen Read the statement.

[@Ihateslowtube]

Quality analysis here, we need more coverage like this in all countries

[@woutmartens7165]

You have to applaud the guy, the start was spot on and he managed to defend his lead for the entire race. He won it fairly 👌 (coming from a ferrari fan)

[@furionese]

Starting lights switch was connected to Botta's clutch leaver via WiFi - he releases the clutch, all lights go out - it's as simple as that :P

[@straightausffm1495]

I watched it on the German Sky TV and they got way more frames out and as they were able to see,he did jumpstart.It was like 3mini frames and between the car starting and the lights going out.Never the less, he was pretty lucky that he got the start so good timed...

[@zendo09]

Massi VE he jumpstart but it was all good 😂 ... anyway let's all move on

[@geonerd]

He blew it, but got SUPER lucky!

[@petteri4080]

Massi VE I believe you can jump start up to 10 milliseconds, or thats what Mika Salo said at least.

[@Destroyer-lr5kj]

I saw it too. He did actually jump start, but he didn't cross the yellow line. It's technically a legal jump start. Deutsches Fernsehen bestes Fernsehen.

[@Moonshine1147]

Destroyer 10203 RTL ist schrott....

[@ebs1895]

Calm down people! Remember this year's China Gp when Vettel wasn't even inside his starting box before the lights went off and there was NO penalty for him

[@Arthurzeiro]

After the 2019 japanese GP weekend I can say this video along with the press conference with Vettel complaining has aged well.

[@MightyBlizzard]

next time sky should use the 60 fps footage to analyse these kind of situations because it tells you way more

[@jaymdee919]

I can unpause this on my sky plus box and see the wheels turn and hit pause it again and still see the red lights so not sure how i can do that and the Sky Pad can't.

[@GrandTheftChris]

maybe because your recording has 60fps and the replay by sky only has 30fps.

[@sdcraig]

jaymdee919 I can get two frames in on my Sky box before the lights go out. I'm still confused why this isn't a false start. I know about the tolerances etc but surely there should be no forward movement before the lights go out.

[@1969zl1vette]

It's all about money. The same reason that they didn't disqualify Villeneuve from the last race in 1997 after he raced the second to last despite be banned, and then had TWO attempts to deliberately take out Schumacher as he exited pit lane. F1 loses ratings and $$$ when there isn't a close battle.

[@ati2636]

money from Mercedes to Skysport :D

[@ausingtv]

jaymdee919 same here

[@horpees]

Anticipation Level 3000!! Good Start!

[@repe3173]

predicted it to perfection, very risky but pulled it off.

[@harryclymer6040]

Repe How exactly does one predict a random start

[@repe3173]

Harry Clymer with luck and experience.

[@harryclymer6040]

Repe luck maybe, but not experience it's a random time till the lights go out after all, I think it's blatant to see he left the car move to early and was lucky the lights went off and that he was within FIA restrictions, but not experience

[@lolbots]

predicted - this is not human reaction. yet FIA says anticipating starts is penalized. but it's Merc, so no penalty

[@abcanimal]

awesome reaction time!!!

[@derbigpr500]

What none of you clearly take into account is the fact that the reaction time is apparently 0.2 seconds, but the car started moving EXACTLY in the same frame when the lights went out. Now, I checked that, analyzed frame by frame on a 60 fps 1080p broadcast, so one frame is 1 second divided by 60, meaning 0,016 seconds. If the car started moving within 0,016 seconds from the moment the lights turned off, then where is the 0.2 second reaction time? There is no reaction time. He released the clutch BEFORE the lights went out. When you react to something, you brain has to process the input data and then send out signals to the muscles, to release the clutch with his finger, and then it takes a couple of miliseconds for the clutch to grab and for the car to actually start moving. So even if his reaction time was 0.2 seconds from the moment lights went out, the car would actually start moving 0.3-0.4 seconds after the lights went out, meaning, that would be 15-25 FRAMES after the lights went out. Even if it's exactly 0.2 seconds as they said, that's already 12 frames people. TWELVE FRAMES in which the car should be standing still and lights are turned off,. but that didn't happen. The car started moving in the SAME FRAME as the light went out. That's impossible, that is medically impossible, because it takes longer for the signals to travel from the eye into the brain, let alone process it and then react to it, and then to send signals to muscles, for the impulse to reach the muscle, for the muscle to react to it, etc.. So yea, it was ABSOLUTELY a jumped started, or at least an anticipated start, which is also illegal. Did that win him the race though? Not really. Yes, he gained a couple of milliseconds at the start, maybe a meter or two, but at the end, he was leading the entire race, and won. It wouldn't have affected him too much if he had a normal start, he'd still get into the first corner as the leader. What people should whine about is how Perez let Bottas through easily, but he blocked off Vettel under the blue flag in the fast S corners a couple of laps before the end, and moved Vettel back from DRS zone to 1,4 seconds, which is literally what saved Bottas, because if Perez had moved, Vettel would have overtaken Bottas during that lap or the one after, he was 0.6 seconds behind Bottas before they reached Perez, and 1.4 seconds behind after the passed him.

[@aoron1nash567]

He just predict the light to a perfection

[@WinnerMK777]

Perfect start

[@titoyolo240]

I think if you're playing back 24fps vs 60fps there might be a difference, but really good reaction

[@markbourn1989]

his reaction time was within human range so it was the perfect start

[@jonander8569]

If you put the video in slow slow motion you see how the pinture of the tyre moves before the lights switch off

[@andy-dt7to]

that was the SECOND frame after the car started moving. the previous frame shows the car has moved and the red lights still on.

[@larry8030]

.000 reaction time

[@QOTSAPT]

One frame is 0.041, which is way below human reactions and according to the footage he's not a frame behind he's within that frame in reaction, so he was at best 0.041 slower than the lights. The only reason his start was not a false start is the slack on the system, the system can't be too sensitive otherwise any movement and cars slightly mis positioned would trigger the false start.

[@marcsee4072]

perfect start

[@mrn95]

It almost looks like the car is connected to the starting lights. That was something some teams dit in the past haha. Absolutely frightening reaction. Either he gambled it perfectly or it was illegal. No human reaction can reach that

[@RS05101984]

Lucky Start ?

[@teemusalo3719]

Rahmat Sofyan Extremely lucky.

[@ati2636]

perfect cheater

[@geonerd]

He needs to head for the nearest roulette wheel ASAP!

[@zeromancer-x]

Very lucky.

[@hansgerber4191]

can anyone explain to me where the stewards, or the production got those 0.201 seconds reaction time from? when there is only 1 frame between lights out and tyre movement, which is obviously significantly less than the above mentioned 0.201.

[@jamesvaden3703]

That was no jump start. He took off at LITERALLY the exact same time down to the last millisecond when the lights went out. Valtteri was a man on a mission that day. Same thing in Suzuka 2019. He took off like a rocket 🚀🚀

[@klyplays]

To actually judge jump start using video method, you would actually need more frames. We don't know what actually happened between the frames which weren't caught. It's a jump start if 240/480fps was used.

[@VictorWasa]

what framerate are your television running? On mine you could see the wheels clearly moving while the lights was still on....

[@garden4ork]

"I'm sure he's not gonna able to replicate that again" Valtteri 2020: hold my beard

[@ryanriel2329]

concept of an anticipated start is funny considering motor racing is full of anticipation

[@TheSpiikki]

Perfecr start. nothing else!

[@rafaellaurel8973]

Too good!

[@enricotraica3857]

He anticipated the light in his brain, pressed the accelerator and the car started moving in the moment the light went out.

[@jamalthasim9041]

imo opinion it is more likely not to be jumped mainly on how close the lights going out and the car moving are together

[@gameplays_nl777]

its a perfect start

[@MightyBlizzard]

only because he got away with it 😉

[@peetuputro702]

Vettel watching the comments like "hmm why are they giving so much credit from that start? maybe im too good or something?"

[@rikulai]

Je was moving before the lights go off if you look on video with more frames but the sensor on the car and on tje groud has some room of error and that helped him for not getting a penalty

[@AlexTM44]

rikulai NO, what helped him was the FIA (stands for Fucking Idiot Assholes) not wanting Vettel's lead increase even more from their golden Princess

[@fetusofetuso2122]

If this was a perfect start as you are trying to depict, WHY the FIA stated it was within tolerance limits?

[@phossil3302]

This makes me curious about one thing, do you guys think there could be doping in F1, I mean substance that can improve your concentration or reaction time ? (I'm not saying Bottas uses doping or something, just wondering if it's possible in F1 in general)

[@filipedinis6777]

ITS CALLED TALENT!! HE IS GOOD

[@markwoldin162]

Who is the commentator? He's superb.

[@dessertstorm7476]

in a sprint, reaction time is factored into false starts. human reaction time is around 100 mSec. So if a sprinter leaves the blocks in less than 100 mSec after the gun goes off, it's deemed to be a false start. Because he did not react to the gun, he anticipated it. Seems to be the case here also. However if I'm not mistaken the lights go out at a fixed pace in F1 rather than being controlled by a human, so predicting it seems to be a logical and fair thing to do.

[@thatpanda185]

Good to see the Ferrari and Mercedes social distancing at the start of that race 👍

[@geonerd]

NO human can react that quickly. Botas didn't have an "amazing start," he was just very, very lucky with his jump start.

[@katebaldwin8126]

geonerd to be honest, I think it was s bit of both

[@big_dick_energy]

He did it against in Japan so I don't think it's a coincidence

[@sam-nariman6236]

@@big_dick_energy It's either luck or sth cheeky. It could be two thing 1.Mercedes can predict when the lights go out 2.Bottas jumped the start but he was lucky that when he moved, the lights went out. There is no 3rd, do you know why? Because it is physically impossible, let assume his brain is lightning fast, the electric signal to foot takes 0.2 to reach, to hands are a bit faster around 0.1 and amazingly it is a linear relation between reaction time and the distance of the organ from the brain.

[@marckart66]

The thing is, was he perfectly in the box? Visually it looks like he jumped it, look at other videos. Seems sky feed was a frame or 2 off. This is why a 60fps+ feed is needed. However, if botas wasn't right forward in his box then he would get away with this. If he was right on his mark and did this, the sensor would of probably said he jumped the start.

[@katebaldwin8126]

Marc Connell the statement said he remained in his box and his movement before the lights went out could be accounted for by an adjustment of the clutch to start. This small movement is allowed and since he was still within his box, it was allowed

[@man6860]

here's the f1 2021 99 awareness.

[@lacigoy6661]

when the field started he was at the corner :) this start was acceptable, but he needed a fortune. the race not depended on that.

[@kylel3150]

best start ever

[@ChangeHumanity]

If anyone watched the race they would understand that the Stewart's used the telemetry data and determine didn't he jumped

[@davidkoreck1341]

another video show other wise he didnt zoom into the tires the way the other video did because if he did you would see he moves of just before the lights went out

[@katebaldwin8126]

Adam Khan but it doesn't matter as he was still within his box

[@culturedsquid8442]

Guys stop debating that much about it . Bottas took a risk , it payed off .

[@fifigigi]

I know.. just like Bruce Lee's punches.. you need a high speed camera to record that..

[@maybachhl2302]

Perfect (jump) start.

[@2k1lex]

Profile picture ✊🏻

[@SkaMaRtiSt1991]

What a boss! I have no idea why people talk so much shit about Bottas. He clearly has a lot of skill.

[@AgnisRoz]

Yes, it was a perfectly legal start from Bottas, since he was still in his start box, but these 2 frames doesn't show anything, except his movement, they don't show what happens in previous frames. Again - it was a perfect guess, hats off, but don't lie about these 0.201 seconds, because it's hell of a long time, even my reaction can be better.

[@jordanmalcolm2443]

1. If Valtteri didn't jump the start, he definitely anticipated the start which took away the human element of it and 2. If was bigger than 2 meters, it was about 10

[@jordanmalcolm2443]

Also could you get a shot onboard Valtteri when the lights dim

[@muhammadshofwan5309]

it's called super perfect start

[@Kemusika]

Alien reaction

[@MT-pv2rf]

After Suzuka 2019 this just shows that Vettel not getting a penalty is an absolute disgrace. Bottas clearly barely moves here and you can understand him just about staying within the allowed tolerance whereas Vettel's wheels move forwards massively in comparison.

[@zcoleman4187]

the frames are less than a tenth of a second, how can it be a reaction time of .2 when he drops the clutch in the exact frame the lights go out, it was a prediction or he was cheating.

[@smokyislay]

There is a sensor on the track and sensor on the car. Since the car can make a little nudge when you adjust the cluch and get ready for the start, the sensor allows a little flex by the design when you position your car to the grid. So: a) If you look the video frames and judge by that, yes, he did jump b) He was still at the accepted area when lights went off, so according to FIA rules, it was not a jump start So everyone here is right, but he got away since this is how the rules say. FIA rules overrule internet judges. Also you need to remember that any driver can try to do the same but the chances are they more likely fail to do so - Valtteri included, if he ever tries it again. So it's playing with very high stakes and it was a dream start for Valtteri.

[@fraapreda]

the limit for a start is 0, 400 seconds reaction, bottas start's is 0, 200 seconds so he do a jump start

[@TMJ32]

That's completely made up. Unless you can post a source for 0.4s.

[@noahsnezza2128]

Maldonado: hold my helmet

[@hirvikarpanen7968]

it was perfect start...

[@Calcearius]

His reaction time from the lights going out to the car moving was 0.2s not a jump start.

[@Skulldetta]

Which is clearly bullshit because the car already started moving before the lights even went out.

[@Calcearius]

They have sensors on the track and in the cars. They say 0.2s more reliable than 60FPS video footage.

[@Dzonnny]

And Vettel cry in another GP - (VET: this is jump start) - PERFECT START BOTTAS. So amazing.

[@aljosagabor3028]

yes he did

[@leebro4822]

High reaction speed?

[@skippyleach]

I don’t get why people still go on about these things. The stewards would have had more camera angles and data from the car and lights than anyone else in the world, and they decided he didn’t jump the start.. so why keep asking a question you already know the answer to???

[@Skulldetta]

Because there is a huge difference between what the FIA thinks is a jump start and what a sane person with eyevision thinks is a jump start?

[@mik9007]

Das Urteil der FIA war falsch. Bottas ist bei Rot gestartet. Normalstart ist, dass man sieht, dass die roten Ampeln aus sind, und dann startet man - eine Reaktionszeit unter 1 Zehntel Sekunde ist dabei unmöglich, wissenschaftlich erwiesen, und so wird es auch in anderen Sportarten geahndet. In der Leichtathletik begeht ein Läufer einen Frühstart, wenn er die Startbewegung beginnt, bevor er das Startsignal (in der Regel einen Schuss) gehört hat. Hierbei registriert eine Elektronik permanent den Druck der Füße auf die Startblöcke. Wird eine Reaktion des Sportlers früher als 100 Millisekunden nach Abgabe des Startsignals festgestellt, signalisiert die Elektronik einen Fehlstart. Im Schwimmen ist es ähnlich. Eine Reaktionszeit noch VOR Erlöschen der Ampel ist derart unmöglich, dass man dafür noch nicht einmal die Wissenschaft braucht. Bottas hat einen klaren, sichtbaren Frühstart hingelegt und dadurch, dass das von der FiA nicht geahndet wurde, Vettel geschlagen. Vettel und Ferrari wurden dadurch um ihren Sieg und um 7 Punkte und möglicherweise um die Weltmeisterschaft betrogen. Vettel ist darüber völlig zu Recht zornig. Das Urteil der FIA dazu ist eine Farce, eine absolute Frechheit. Vettel, der klar Betrogene, muss sich dafür nicht auch noch saublöde Sprüche anhören.

[@jayroo71]

I love all you experts who scrub your home tv box back and forth think that you have a more accurate measurement for this situation than the FIA with all the sensors and car data.

[@Skulldetta]

We don't. It's just that the FIA has a very questionable idea of what a jump start actually is, an idea that doesn't comply with what any sane person thinks.

[@coolermann7354]

maybe he predicted the start and got lucky by starting just as the lights got green

[@BornracerBornracer]

He got lucky... All the drivers on the grid will be at the peak level of human ability with regards to reactions. There is no way one guy could start a tenth of a second quicker than everybody else and it not be a jump

[@markbutcher4100]

Hi

[@derbauerbauer]

You can´t judge if its a jump start if you only give us 2 frames... come on

[@kerbal1851]

He jumped it But got really lucky and the lights went out as he jumped

[@rounick28]

100% jump start. Fucking RoboCop couldn't start that perfectly.

[@cannyfocus]

Wheels rotate a bit in red lights, but he is like in neutral at this time - no throttle / acceleration there (also alles nur sowas wie ein "zucken", noch kein Gas geben). The real acceleration follows when lights are already 0,2sec out (so no jump starting for me) ! In all this bullsh.. slomos like this one and all the other slomos as well you can't recoginize that without having the motor sound and normal real life speed action. You can only judge it in the whole picture - by not picking out just one moment for just the media - and with the rest of the details I mentioned.

[@antoineyoung36]

I don't think it's a jump start. Bottas timed it perfectly

[@lewishamilton6177]

Just good reaction time

[@matsmooij7063]

Just a perfect start

[@champdude17]

Mats Mooij A perfect start is only possible by jumping the start, because the human brain cannot react as fast as be did.

[@matsmooij7063]

champdude17 yeay

[@tgk300xx4]

He didn't jump the start, he perfectly timed his start to maximise his grid position.

[@champdude17]

Like I said, its impossible to perfectly time a start without jumping it. The fastest a human can react is about 200 milliseconds. He reacted in perfect co-ordination to the start which is only humanly possible by anticipating it and reacting before the lights go out.

[@BetrunkenenLetsPlays]

I guess F1 drivers on this kinda level risk a bit and try to foresee when the lights go off so he just predicted it and had very much luck that it worked on time and that perfectly

[@pubsen3117]

The important frames before are not shown! 1-2 frames before the tire is moving too, with red lights on! kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6DGgnmgpq6pkM0

[@Ivander85]

Looks like he just got reeeaally lucky.

[@pingoochnl6099]

There is a 10 one thousandth of a second toleration in the rules so there is no point speculating

[@aidanmcmillan750]

he didn't jump start it was an amazing start

[@RikterZilla]

FIA (Ferrari Interference Association).

[@gattaca7965]

If that's the case then why didn't FIA give Bottas a penalty? You fucking idiot. FIA clearly favors Mercedes not Ferrari, get your stories straight.

[@Velvetcool]

Yes it looked like a jump start but maybe he just went at the exact moment the lights went out. A millisecond earlier and he would have got a penalty.

[@Nivola1953]

I thought the FIA said Bottas car moved 2/100 sec after lights off, but this looks like 2/1000 to me, anyway this in the past now

[@TheKeeeks97]

Just the luckiest start i ve ever seen cause nobody can react so fast but it's allowed so: congrats, well done

[@alexwilson5898]

OMFG IT WASNT A JUMPSTART he did it in the starting box which is LEGAL everyone who said it isn't are 10 year olds who watch the odd race

[@weakhandshake]

Or it's the best start ever by a driver

[@foxtrotalphaone]

The still frame that the video starts at is two frames after Bottas started moving. Dishonesty at Sky Sports. Shame.