Racial diversity in women's football: NWSL vs. WSL

[@mbrook848]

Excellent research and reporting - very thorough, objective, factual & with great insight. Job well done! Keep up the good work

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thank you, I appreciate the comment!

[@leahrothfeld5300]

As a fan of the NWSL and the WSL the difference in diversity in the leagues is wild and I'm glad you made this video highlighting that.

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thanks so much for your comment! I love both leagues as well but definitely a noticeable difference between the two of them.

[@DerekLangdon]

The US is predominantly more black than the UK! As for the men’s English premier league you’ll find plenty of black players, about 40%.

[@Delboy0]

Irony is the English women's football used to be diverse, but the English FA made huge mistakes in the professionalisation of the women's games in England, by shutting down the elite soccer schools in England in the big diverse cities for girls and relocating them to rural white areas. This one decision turned women's soccer in England into a white upper middle class sport because only the girls who had parents who could arrange travel to these elite schools could be professionals and working class girls and girls of colour where shut out of the system. Imagine if the men's game did this and said they would stop developing talent from London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle and only players with rich parents become professionals. There would be no Saka, Bellingham, Kane, Grealish, Foden, Walker, basically all the England currently. What a huge mistake and they still haven't corrected this because it has made women's football super white.

[@zborhan6168]

Everton can argue that they have to choose their players more locally which is a very white population and they don't have money or even the reputation to attract and hire top non-local or international non-with players, but what's Arsenal's coach's excuse? There really wasn't even one nonwhite player that is fit for Arsenal? I mean as you said: look at Chelsea! I've seen someone angrily write that Manu is of Brazilian heritage (half Brazilian, or something like that, I don't remember), which I didn't find anything about on the internet. But even if that's true and even if we were to accept that it means she is a clear minority, having to look that hard to find something and angrily pointing it out, shows that you aren't confident about it because... you can't be!

[@ionspear]

Really love your video style & analysis. Feeling very conflicted choosing a name for my Africa celebrating Arsenal away shirt this season ❤

[@Delboy0]

The UK population has nothing to do with the representation at elite sport. Black men only make up 1% of the UK population but 40% of the Premier League, even the men's England team for the Euros was 68% black players. It is suspicious that the men's game can be so diverse and the women's game is not. 15 years ago the Lionesses were 50% black players. What has happened is English FA made huge mistakes in the professionalisation of the women's games in England, by shutting down the elite soccer schools in England in the big diverse cities for girls and relocating them to rural white areas. This one decision turned women's soccer in England into a white upper middle class sport

[@rasclotify]

Access is a problem. Economic disparity is a factor, sports cost money to partake in. Socioeconomics are a major problem in sports.

[@KazeShikamaru]

Okay I didn't order savage with my dinner but that was a burn on Arsenal. I like how you went about this video without calling anyone racist and really showed actual good reasons why it is happening.

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thank you! I've been staying away from the comments because I really never called the WSL, Arsenal or anyone racist but some people were coming at me like I did. I dont think they watched the video to be honest. But anyways, I really appreciate your comment!

[@KazeShikamaru]

@@_MindfulAthlete Don't worry sister they hate us when we can make sound arguments.

[@jess82384]

Football in the UK is set up very differently... Arsenal's (and many other big teams) youth academy isn't actually in London. It's in Hertfordshire, a home county which doesn't have great transport links into the city. As a result, the more diverse qualities of an urban area find it harder to get to these training centres for training multiple times a week, especially for youth who are still studying in school. It ends up being the usually white, more affluent, middle class families that can afford to take their girls to youth training. People like Alessia Russo, who isn't from London, but from Kent which miles away from London, had her parents drive her to Arsenal, Chelsea, and Manchester United's academies. It's a privilege.

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thanks for your comment! It's helps to hear that context about the academy locations. North America also has challenges of not reaching certain youth, but mainly because of our pay-to-play model. Privilege for sure!

[@beyondthepage9389]

This does not explain how the boy's academy is awash with black players (by at least half). They somehow manage to get down to Hertfordshire and anywhere else with an Academy. Black players are heavily represented at Chelsea, Tottenham, Westham (you name it). So respectfully, I don't think travel issues are the problem.

[@Littletravelsd4]

@@beyondthepage9389 the boys train at hale end which is London and the girls have different locations in at Albans and hertfordshire uni.

[@julsdereal]

The lack of diversity in the Arsenal is caused by Jonas Eidevall. Arsenal used to be the most diverse team in the WSL. just look at how they treated Mana Nwabuchi for instance. JE is the problem

[@Delboy0]

It is crazy how this Swedish coach is allowed to spit on the traditions of Arsenal as the team of the black folk and diversity, with him on buying white Scandinavian players. You could maybe justify such discriminative recruitment if Arsenal ladies was winning the league with their all white team, but they lose to Chelsea every year team with the most diversity. He should be fired.

[@davidaddy2707]

NWSL being the best league in the world is far stretched to be honest.

[@toddcurtis1377]

Pretty sure the WSL champion would have beaten the NWSL champion 5 years in a row if we had that competition. And interleague competition is an area that definitely favors Europe. if you play in France, Spain, England, Germany, or even Sweden, Portugal, or Belgium - there is a decent chance you will get to pit yourself against the very best pros on the rest of the continent in the Women's Champions League. The NWSL does not have and doesn't have any opportunity to create such an international competition to compete. I'm proud of the NWSL and what they've accomplished but they find themselves nearly alone in America. Liga MX Femenil is growing though and it might be a nice 2-league competition at least.

[@DerekLangdon]

@@toddcurtis1377 Not under Emma Hayes, t She was only good for domestic titles! Chelsea under Sonia Bompastor, will slaughter all, near and far!!

[@edcleverley9333]

Only 4.2% of people in Britain are black. We didn't have centuries of transporting people to work as slaves in Europe, we did to colonies in the Caribbean and Brazil but not here. If anything, our climate allowed us to grow excess food and population that we exported to other countries (while stealing their natural resources that we lack). Bridgerton isn't real. There was no non-white mass immigration to the UK until the Windrush generation of 1948 - 1973 when we brought in workers from the Caribbean to fill labour shortages. In Europe we're seeing the rise of the extreme right because our societies are becoming more diverse and people are using that to fuel resentment. Money is a finite recourse and people are blaming population increase for falling living standards. I'm a lefty so think it's because the people at the top are taking too much, and it's not filtering down. In France the party descended from the Nazi rulers in WW2 nearly won their election, in Italy the President is from Mussolini's old party, Netherlands gave most seats in their parliament to the far right. I worry that your well-intentioned call for minorities to be over-represented is already causing their position to be increasingly precarious. Europe has had pogroms for at least 1000 years and I can see others targeting non-whites, rather than Jews, within my lifetime

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thanks for your comment, and interesting history. I believe there's a middle ground between 0 and overrepresentation. Though my video did not ask for overrepresentation! I also don't want to just focus on % of black people as there are other groups who play football. That said, I know any video about race gets critics so I was prepared for that but I always welcome comments like yours that provide nice context! :)

[@emmanuelfatokifatoki2917]

Every team needs to increase the number of soccer players with colour because it gives them more opportunity and shows you can play soccer no matter what color you are

[@mudchair16]

What if the English people don't want lots of non-English people in their country? Don't they have a choice? Must they have diversity forced upon them? Isn't this discrimination against the ethnic English players? Why can't other countries have their own leagues for their own races?

[@tropicalvegetable]

Also evident in 2024 🎉 Olympics. Brazil and US teams are basically NWSL teams. Scariest and most exciting part is ahead. US would’ve been even LEVELS better if US started turning the corner sooner with more diverse players. Worse players on US team generally were the Europe based players. By definition it’s hard to match the hustle and work ethic of oppressed people.

[@HusseinDoha]

[Edit: I wrote this immediately after after watching the first minute and Arsenal squad. Turns out my point and yours overlapped).😄. -- . On one hand, I don’t see it as a problem for the same reason I don’t think that black dominated NBA is a problem. But if I will give you my two cents, let me say this. The black population in UK is 2%. You have to find within that very tiny population women who are interested to play soccer and to go professional. WSL also sign players from Europe a continent where the population are whites. There are barely any good women leagues in Africa, so you won’t get talents from there like you would on the men’s level (most blacks in the Arsenal men team are foreigners). - As for USA 🇺🇸 , black Americans are 7 times bigger as a share of population than UK’s blacks (who are mostly first or 2nd gen immigrants). And they don’t sign many Europeans. Also note, 8 blacks out of 18 players (44% share) is not “much more representative”, it’s over representative by almost three times.

[@Delboy0]

The UK population has nothing to do with the representation at elite sport. Black men only make up 1% of the UK population but 40% of the Premier League, even the men's England team for the Euros was 68% black players. It is suspicious that the men's game can be so diverse and the women's game is not. 15 years ago the Lionesses were 50% black players. What has happened is English FA made huge mistakes in the professionalisation of the women's games in England, by shutting down the elite soccer schools in England in the big diverse cities for girls and relocating them to rural white areas. This one decision turned women's soccer in England into a white upper middle class sport because only the girls who had parents who could arrange travel to these elite schools could be professionals and working class girls and girls of colour where shut out of the system. Imagine if the men's game did this and said they would stop developing talent from London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle and only players with rich parents become professionals. There would be no Saka, Bellingham, Kane, Grealish, Foden, Walker, basically all the England currently. What a huge mistake and they still haven't corrected this because it has made women's football super white.

[@HusseinDoha]

@@Delboy0 you made decent point. But I need to push on facts before we make a conclusion. The 40% blacks in PL includes black foreigners. That’s not relevant to our point about the ethnic diversity of English soccer teams. Not sure about 68% of men team in Euro (count biracials like Walker and Jude as blacks only I guess) but it sure higher than the share of population. - Let me ask you this, what elite soccer clubs that were closed in big cities and moved to rural areas? Can you name them so I can research them? Isn’t Arsenal and Chelsea in London and have facilities inside London? Or do you mean they only play women football in facilities outside London? And was it an FA decision to shut down these “soccer schools”? Were they FA schools, if not by what authority did they closed them? I can’t make a conclusion without facts. - Let me say this, between men’s game which is more physical (and black people are excellent athletes in strength and speed) and the women’s game which is slow and more tactical, I think the physical advantages of black women vanishes in women soccer. That’s just my opinion, and I’m waiting for your reply

[@catman518]

And we get criticized here in the States. Notice, we love all players. Asian players. African players. Central and South American. Middle Eastern. And yes, even Europeans. And we get crap for being a racist country, but that's a falsehood. Nikita Josephine Parris and Ashleigh Plumptre discuss the real reasons. Just research. If it's true...

[@joec7738]

I live in Philadelphia and I’ve watched the Academy program of the local team bring about many youth players from very diverse backgrounds and cultures. This has enabled youth of lower socioeconomic status opportunity they would NEVER had been able to achieve. The academies in England are producing many young men / teens into first team players. They mostly come from lower socioeconomic regions. So my question is are you seeing the same in the young women academies? Buying the best player has always been a band aide to a strong team. My second question is , football was outlawed for girls/women. Not sure what that really means. This culture of only men playing football has only recently changed. Ten years ago England was struggling with women’s football. Now it’s a solid part of the FA and supporters groups. It took close to 40 years after title IX to change the culture in the USA. 1996 was a second boost with several more events that continued the cultural change. How many years has been since football for girls has been allowed ?

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thanks for your comment, you raise some good points! Definitely the history of football being outlawed for many years will be a factor. And based on another comment the location of academies can make it difficult for girls from underrepresented backgrounds to access. I'm a Chelsea fan and to be honest, the academy is not diverse at all. Their strategy seems to be through recruitment. Whereas Arsenal seems to be focusing their diversity efforts through the academy. Interesting to see the 2 different approaches.

[@DerekLangdon]

I think women were barred from playing football by the English Football association in 1924. Up to that point it was very popular, and thousands would turn out to watch. It’s hard to imagine what women’s football in England could have achieved after 100 years. It’s such a bloody shame!

[@jess82384]

I'm pretty sure Chelsea had signed Maika Hamano and had to send her on loan to Hammarby in Sweden because of visa/brexit issues?

[@_MindfulAthlete]

I didn't hear about that, but it could totally be possible!

[@toddcurtis1377]

The official reason is that at age 18 she wasn't really ready for the senior women's team and needed development, plus when we signed her, we really didn't have a spot where she would get sufficient playing time. I don't think getting a work permit had anything to do with it. After all, she spent only a few months in Sweden and then came right back to England when she was injured and has stayed ever since.

[@toddcurtis1377]

Hey, Chelsea fan here. It's not back-to-back titles. It's 5 in a row. Not that we're counting....

[@DerekLangdon]

Yeah, domestic titles! Hayes was a failure in European football. Thank God she is gone.

[@darkgenesis342]

This was an interesting watch however I’m not quite sure what the significance of having POC in team is? Why does it matter?

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thanks for watching! Honestly, it was just an interesting video that I wanted to make given the differences :). But I also believe representation is important if you're a club playing in a multicultural city (e.g., London). I'm from Canada and many racialized kids shy away from playing hockey because they think it's a "White" sport. All kids should feel like they see themselves in a sport!

[@darkgenesis342]

@@_MindfulAthlete interesting, i agree that all kids should ideally feel like they can play in any sport they want but the whole “white people sports” or “some one like me” is a very North American concept to me. One half of it is weird racial divisions while the other half is caused by the fact that soccer isn’t the number one sport. Soccer is so popular in most nations that regardless of your race you don’t feel like you can’t participate. So even if Arsenal is predominantly white I doubt that dissuades black youth in England , also think someone’s race being a deciding factor to pick a player is a bit….. odd.

[@_MindfulAthlete]

I agree everyone should feel like they belong in soccer but top women's leagues are not as diverse as top men's leagues. I feel like it's important to understand why. Like it could be cultural, e.g., I did a video mentioning how some South Asian girls are encouraged not to play sports and to instead focus on being a mother/wife. My future hope is for there to be no biases preventing some girls from certain backgrounds getting into the sport. Love this discussion though! :)

[@darkgenesis342]

@@_MindfulAthleteI’ll definitely like to see a future like that. I got into the women’s game in 2011 and it’s been a pleasure seeing the game grow. more girls getting opportunities and more countries opening up to the idea of the women’s game is something I look forward to.

[@kenm6065]

The point is, the WSL needs to learn from the Premiere League, which once also was hesitant to sign black players, due to the perception that those players didn't "represent" their image of the club. As a result the product suffered, and it's suffering with the WSL whether you want to believe it or not. In the USA, we experienced the same thing for years with MLB. No one knew the MLB was an inferior product until it was actually integrated. The second reason is that football in men's sports is big big business for big money, in this necessitates putting the best players out on the field despite their color.

[@StephenBoley-k8b]

"That best has gotten them back-to-back third place finishes" ahahah Say less

[@Sabryna_1tG]

Love your video style. Very informational 🙃 keep it up mate! 🫶🏽👍🏽🔥

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thank you so much! I appreciate this comment :)

[@Gabbame11]

I think you raised some good points. Especially the gbe system that impacts visas. But another important thing is salaries. WSL teams fall under EPL clubs, which impacts how much they're willing to spend on woso players. NWSL teams are paying higher salaries, and imo is another big reason some players choose the USA

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thanks for that good point! The fact that 4 of the top 5 transfer fees are from NWSL teams shows their willingness to spend. The NWSL media deal is also helping. The WSL isn't as transparent about what players make, so it's hard to actually know what the comparison is like

[@johnhoulihan6810]

Can't teams be judged on the quality of their football and not on their players skin colour. It's throwing racist elements in when there are none.

[@vanessamarie8632]

It's not necessarily based on skin color, it's socioeconomic status. People of color in many places around the world tend to be of lower socioeconomic status meaning they have less access to resources that would improve their skills as a player in comparison to other people who have the money for the extra coaching, training, etc. Just because someone doesn't have the funds to access something doesn't mean they can't be built up and become a talented player like others who do have the funds. As she mentioned in the video it looks like the men's teams have worked to fill in those gaps and have made foodball more acessable so the question is what are the womens teams doing in comparison that have not enabled them to uplift everyone/anyone. Just the same there may be people who are not people of color on a team who wouldn't have developed the skills they have if they didn't have an organization activley trying to support their growth.

[@dayo.a3301]

Wonderful analysis.

[@davidaddy2707]

Arsenal taking strays from everywhere 😅

[@robertjean3984]

more and more women's soccer will become popular, there will be more and more interests, more and more money... more and more problems like discrimination and racism... when it It was a marginalized sport, with no economic interest at stake, everyone could play wherever they wanted...the presence of money changed everything!

[@Number1Camper]

Actually when there are large profits racism and exclusion goes down bc they will hire whoever is the most qualified and that’s it

[@the11th24]

I enjoy your content

[@robertcunningham2559]

Loved this breakdown and really loving your channel!

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed it!

[@user-bm4ic4kx2w]

Smith is a star, just like Morgan on the rise

[@ailbheoleary7329]

Arsenal had by the end of season 2 POC players regularly featuring in the bench who I’d imagine will graduate to first team players this year as both have for the last 2 years been called upon when they got hit with injuries coming from the academy (not stating this is enough but it is definitely a step in the right direction)

[@_MindfulAthlete]

Yes, thanks! My plan was to show Agyemang and Lia when talking about Arsenal's academy plan but totally forgot. Thanks for mentioning this and for your comment :)

[@user-iu6yi9ys8i]

I'm a Chelsea fan , and you're right , I think except Carter and James , all the black girls are 2 canadians , 1 northamerican , a colombian , an asían japanese , an australian. Arsenal is full white, Man. CIty has Bunny Shaw...diversity is a point failing in Women English football , remember now Nikita Parrish in Manutd. West Ham has two or three black girls , french , most of Them ...ah . I'm uruguayan ,and here , black ppl don't take any problem to be called black .

[@hmahdavi]

That is why the NWSL is the most successful league in the world.

[@DerekLangdon]

It might be a successful league, but that doesn’t translate to NWSL players being the best!!

[@hmahdavi]

@@DerekLangdon there are 57 players from the NWSL at the Olympics representing their respective countries right now. They are the best in the world.

[@richard6440]

@@hmahdavi The Olympics does not comprise of the best teams in the world. Even the World Cup did not have the best teams there ( by Fifa ranking ). The Nwsl might be the most diverse , but dont bring the Olympics into it :)

[@hmahdavi]

@@richard6440 You must be an alternative reality person. Have a nice day.

[@DerekLangdon]

@@hmahdavi That is only an opinion!! Objectively the most skilful players in the world are European!! US soccer is just razzmatazz, It’s a three ring circus, a Hollywood musical!