Radical Traditionalism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Pope Bashing w/ Michael Lofton (

[@abbeythib3148]

This was such a blessing for me. I'm a Catholic Revert, and recently have been feeling overwhelmed over the current state of the Church. Due to me interest in Eastern Spirituality, I was beginning to entertain Orthodox arguments for the Schism & Filioque... but this interview was SO helpful for me in my discernment & my increasing confidence in the Catholic Church! God Bless. Glory to Jesus Christ!

[@oliverclark5604]

It is the "current state" of the family identity, not roles such as church or state.

[@laurenlee961]

I was the same as you, but I came back, was literally called back by Our Lady, after a 12 year absence. But I was called back to FIGHT for the Magesterium and to prepare my soul for what is coming. The church has been infiltrated by Satan. It is our jobs as Catholics to help Jesus carry his cross and to fight for him against the Heretics and Apostates currently leading the church.

[@ingoditrust7784]

Orthodoxy has nothing over Catholicism: just imagine trading Pope Francis for a KGB-crowmed Patriarch Kirill. Whatever is wrong with so many men in the Catholic clergy (errare humanum), the Church of Christ truly is Roman and be the Vatican today as unholy as it seems to be...

[@oliverclark5604]

@@ingoditrust7784 Unless you are outside thought or had faith by all to be inside the roman catholic church role group, you cannot out occult the occult, incest connected grooming by diseased family member 'familyists' for economic advantage of their families by tax-exemption embezzlement and lower insurance costs by fraud. This grooming is of psychologically and or emotionally vulnerable family members with occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate, non-economic false status inducements of "higher vocation" or association with "higher vocation" (Pope St Joh Paul 11's Council for the Family 'teaching' document: TTMHS, 1995, 35) of consecrated celibate marriage vowed to man in Christ to consecrated male female marriage vowed to God. Your "reference point" (TTMHS, PCF, 1995, 110) "can and must" (Pope St John Paul 11, Apostolic Exhortation: CL, 1988, 40) be Pope Francis as a consecrated celibate family member vowed to man in Christ on 10 June 2021 evangelising the culture of helpers within the family of his Jesuit religious order consecrated celibate family members, Vatican state citizens/employees, Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others, and the Italian state Parliament, by his exercise of an absolute power of his simultaneous authorisations of his: (a) ensuring his procreation role gift charity donations alleged embezzled by Vatican state citizens/employees, Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others presently been heard on their indictments in Pope Francis' Vatican state criminal court, (b) insuring his need of union of his identity with identities of his Jesuit religious order consecrated celibate family members at unacceptable risk of fraud by the Italian state Parliament "Zan" anti-homophobia bill defeated in early November 2021 after a protest note against this bill from Pope Francis' Secretariat of State authorised by Pope Francis. It is fruitless for the roman catholic church role group to attempt to evangelise the orthodox catholic church role group since both as helper of the family role groups have all their activities advantageously combined by this exercise by Pope Francis of an absolute power of his simultaneous authorisations of his applications of his ensuring his procreation charity donations gift and his insuring his need of union of his identity in the reference point for Pope Francis been family members of the few valid and proper consecrated marriages given "the great majority of sacramental marriages are invalid" (Pope Francis, 15 June 2016). These valid and proper marriages include of family members of the family of my parents, Colin and Marjorie Clark, and of Our Lady, Mary, mother of Jesus, as recorded in Luke 1:29&34, 38 and 45, in uncertainty of belief keeping the inseparability and qualitative equality of their ensuring procreation gift roles and insuring their need of union of their identities. From Oliver Clark for Job's Trust, family members of consecrated marriages, both male female and celibate: "By associating together ... put[ting] into action and educational project ... in sexuality and true love ... Within the Family ..." (Pope St John Paul 11's Council for the Family teaching document, TTMHS, 1995, 24, title), withstanding the extreme tensions of this "worldwide catastrophe" (Pope Francis 10 June 2021) of "the great majority of sacramental marriages are invalid." (Pope Francis, 15 June 2016). E. [e-mail] Ph. 61-(0)467 299 853 Unit 8, 178 Kent Street, New Farm, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, 4005

[@ingoditrust7784]

@@oliverclark5604 I would seriously consider psychiatric therapy. If I were you. Edit: well, you having deleted your comment addressed to me certainly is a first step in the right direction.

[@thomaskonecy3507]

This is a great video! I grew up as a sedevacantist and came back to the church last December. I am the first person in my family to receive the sacraments in about 40 years. My family is still sedevacantist and has claimed that I’m going to hell for “denying the true church” My spiritual life is thriving now that I have the sacraments and I even teach religious education now. Matt Frad is a defender of the faith and God bless him for that.

[@jamessalerno4234]

Don’t sedes have valid sacraments? Like the orthodox?

[@luked7956]

The Old Catholics do too. Is there any theological or canonical reason that opponents to sedevacantism claim that sedevacantists don't have valid sacraments? Apostolicae Curae and Sacramentum Ordinis infallibly teach what makes valid priests and bishops, and therefore most valid sacraments. I understand that the difference between validity and liceity can require some digging, but it's an essential concept for understanding a lot of what's happened in Church history.

[@richardlopez6226]

@@j.knight9335 You are in schism. It is a mortal sin to received sacraments from schismatics.

[@mikeoconnor4590]

Though I do not hold to the sedevecantist position - I do not hold that those who hold that position are in schism. They might just be wrong. In my own experience those Who hold the position believe everything that the church teaches. It doesn’t automatically follow that if one holds the position that they are out of the church. That to me seems extreme

[@jaqian]

@@luked7956 The OC are at risk of losing their sacraments. The more woman they ordain to the priesthood and as bishops (not sure if they have any yet) the more they undermine their apostolic succession.

[@chrisxprem]

There was a lot of personal pain that was aired and shared by Michael. His vocal tone was balanced, undercontrol. And the content of his talks endeavor to have that same quality. Respect. Great hosting by Matt Fradd as well.

[@major9004]

Personal pain why

[@ProdigalSon684]

@@major9004Did you not hear him when he spoke about his wife?

[@susand3668]

Dear@@major9004, he also lost a son to abortion.

[@kirsten8807]

I am blown away by this discussion. It’s the most hopeful conversation I’ve watched/heard in the last three or four years. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you from the depths of my soul. Truly. Truly. Truly.

[@ProdigalSon684]

@@deus_vult8111He says he will.

[@clarissa7428]

I had the same experience and issue with re-baptism in Orthodoxy! It was the last straw that led me to Catholicism (and it’s talked about here around 41:00). I was living at an Orthodox monastery for a month- after being stuck between the two for two years already- and the Orthodox ***bishop*** that was visiting couldn’t give me an answer about whether or not I was baptized (i.e. is triple-immersion necessary for valid baptism or not). He said to go to my Orthodox parish priest and ask. He said, “If he says that you are already baptized, praise God! If he says that you should be baptized, praise God!” But, I thought, shouldn’t something as fundamental as *baptism* be agreed upon by the various Orthodox churches? This issue made me realize the need for a living, authoritative, objective, magisterium and only Catholicism has this.

[@Jy3pr6]

That’s unfortunate, Clarissa. Those disparities of opinion never bothered me since I’m confident God isn’t petty and sees everyone’s circumstances. What matters more to me is the continuity of spirituality in Orthodoxy with that of the early Church and the New Testament. My last straw in Catholicism was when I realized that the Roman Catholic world was in reality subdivided into little worlds. The spirit of Vatican 2 Focus Roman Catholics have a completely different air about them than the traditionalists and those two from Latin American Charismatic Roman Catholics and those three from the Uniates and that’s not even getting into the world of all the different devotions, apparitions and the “spiritualities” of different orders. I remember a lady looking so sad when I turned down her offer to join a Divine Mercy group and how a friend’s mother would insist that the Divine Will devotion wasn’t adding anything to the Faith even though she clearly placed more importance on that devotion than anything else. There is a very odd need to thematize everything in the Roman Catholic world that I think speaks to a deeply felt lack. I started to wonder why it is that so many people feel the need to boost their sense of spirituality with movements, devotions and different religious orders, and it struck me what a stark contrast that is to Orthodoxy, where there is simply an emphasis on Liturgy, the Sacraments, repentance, struggle against the passions, your parish, the writings of the Fathers and the monastics as living witnesses in peacetime to the radical calling of the Gospel. Whenever I come across someone who turned away from Orthodoxy or is close to turning away from it, it breaks my heart. I hope some day you’ll find your way back

[@Jy3pr6]

It’s amazing, coming from a Roman Catholic background, how Orthodoxy has maintained such spiritual continuity and how it calls everyone to have the same mind and spirit. It makes sense that the Saints of Christ’s true Church would point to the sufficiency of the Sacraments, the liturgical cycle and the reading of spiritual literature that calls us to ascetic struggle and repentance, to satiate anyone with an open heart.

[@clarissa7428]

@@Jy3pr6 I haven’t read all of the comment, but I just have to respond to your comment about God being “petty”: God is not petty, of course (we agree) but we would also agree that God isn’t being “petty” by commanding that the Eucharist only be consecrated with bread and wine (not a pop tart and apple juice). There are certain conditions that God has given us for his sacraments (like man and wife for marriage, and bread and wine for the Eucharist). It is not “petty” for him to decide baptism has to be a certain way. Indeed, He has commanded we use water and invoke the name of the Trinity. But the Orthodox are unclear about the actual conditions for baptism. THIS is what is scandalous. It’s like not knowing what conditions are required for the Eucharist, or for marriage. Orthodoxy should not be confused about baptism after 2000 years.

[@clarissa7428]

@@Jy3pr6Orthodoxy’s spirituality *just is* monasticism. That’s simply because Orthodoxy is frozen in time. It’s not a fault of Catholicism that spirituality has flourished in so many different ways after the monastic period, where Orthodoxy split with Catholicism and had no mechanism for growth. I’m with you when it comes to certain Catholics idolizing certain devotions at the expense of ancient spiritual traditions. I don’t like that either. But the fact that Catholicism has so many different ways to grow in holiness and devotion to Jesus just speaks to Catholicism’s catholicity, its universality, not its departure from the true faith,

[@clarissa7428]

@@Jy3pr6 “continuity” here means “homogeny” at the expense of Catholic diversity. If the Holy Spirit is infinite and beyond comprehension as the East especially emphasizes, why would we expect so much homogeny in terms of spiritual practices? Shouldn’t we expect to have so many different ways to worship the infinite God?

[@gogr2409]

Tremendous interview, especially as a convert who has had the same confusing challenges regarding what is happening in the church and papacy. Thank you for great clarity and content!

[@oliverclark5604]

"confusing challenges" are "Within the Family", part of title of Pope St John Paul 11's Council for the Family 'teaching document: "The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality: Guidelines for Education Within the Family", 1995. These are of embezzlement in role and fraud on identity. Pope Francis within his Jesuit religious order consecrated celibate marriages vowed to man in Christ dealt with both on 10 June 2021 in the Cardinal Becciu + 9 charity donations and the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill cases.

[@imeldataaffe433]

From Ireland. Wonderful talk, very insightful. About 3 months ago I felt in my spirit our dear Lord was displeased with my criticism of Pope Francis , Bishops and some Priests at times. He loves us all so much but how much more his Special Sons. My duty is to Pray and make sacrifices for Pope Francis and the whole Church. I stopped following a lot of KZbin commentators. As I decided this,low and behold, up pops Michael Lofton. Keep up the good work, Michael and Matt. I'm now praying more for an Outpouring of the Holy Spirit and Trusting more in Jesus and the fulfillment of God's plan and his promise " Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of time." Thank you Jesus . 🙏☘️

[@imeldataaffe433]

Only God can Judge the thoughts and intentions of another. Jesus said " Judge not , that you may not be judged". We are expected to pray for Pope Francis, the Hierarchy and for all humanity. God bless.

[@oliverclark5604]

​@@peroercegovac1973 "It takes one to [purport to presume to] know one".

[@SS-wt7kc]

Thanks for sharing this ❤️

[@jaqian]

I'm also Irish, it can be difficult here to keep the faith but I think you are going about it the right way

[@oliverclark5604]

@@jaqian For me, 'to have the faith' and ""to keep the faith" are different as respectively the first a possession and the second a trust. Thinking as a procreation doing gift and to have the faith as being in need of union are inseparable and qualitatively equal. To keep this inseparability and qualitative equality is belief as by definition in uncertainty since belief is not knowing. What is kept is not "the faith" but the inseparability and qualitative equality of 'do-ing' thinking and 'be-ing' in having faith. The omission of thinking is significant as revealing grooming with a purely 'be-ing' having faith or feeling inducement. This inducement is occult as hidden and incest connected as substitute mate. I note how Mary as exercising an absolute power of her simultaneous authorisations of her consecrated marriage vowed to man in Christ as mother of Christ and her consecrated marriage with St Joseph vowed to God as Mother of God and Pope Francis on 10 June 2021 on Mary's reference point by his exercise of an absolute power of his simultaneous authorisations that day both withstand the extreme tensions of this occult as hidden, incest connected as substitute mate groomed feeling as an addiction non-economic false: "higher vocation" of consecrated celibate marriage vowed to ma in Christ to consecrated male female marriage vowed to God (Pope St John Paul 11's Council for the Family 'teaching' document: TTMHS, PCF, 1995, 35), status inducement of psychologically and or emotionally vulnerable family members for economic advantage of the families of the diseased 'familyist' family person groomers of tax-exemption by embezzlement and lower insurance costs by fraud. In the case on 10 June 2021 of Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine other Vatican state citizens/employees the alleged embezzlement was of procreation gift charity donations of helpers of the family within the family causing extreme tensions withstood by Pope Francis. In the case of the "Zan" anti-homophobia bill before the Italian citizens' Parliament causing extreme tensions simultaneously withstood by Pope Francis on 10 June 2021, the fraud was an unacceptable risk on insuring need of union of identities of family members of consecrated marriages, both celibate and male female. This alleged embezzlement of procreation gifts' case since 10 June 2021 has been heard as authorised by Pope Francis on criminal indictments in Pope Francis' Vatican state court as continuing presently. This unacceptable risk of fraud case since 10 June 2021 was defeated in the Italian Parliament in early November 2021 after a protest note against it as an unacceptable risk of this fraud, authorised by Pope Francis.

[@TeresaAvila1]

I returned to the Catholic Church (from my childhood) in late winter 2012. early 2013 Pope Francis was elected. grateful for this interview today! God bless you Michael and Matt. thank you.

[@oliverclark5604]

St Teresa of Avila and Pope Francis are among the very few who have withstood extreme tensions caused by purporting presuming inversion of role gift and identity need. This purporting presuming this inversion is for economic advantage of families of groomers by embezzlement and fraud. This grooming is by diseased 'familyists' of vulnerable family members with a non-economic false status inducement. This inducement is of, or association with "higher vocation" of consecrated celibate marriage vowed to man in Christ to consecrated male female marriage vowed to God.

[@mariatorres9789]

I've been through a similar cascade in my life, but what I don't hear him talk about much, is faith and praying for the Holy Spirit to give him discernment. It's always him leaning on his own brain and understanding. That's why we get in messes, we start leaning on our own concepts, instead of seeking God's way. Start praying more, and you'll find peace with God.

[@susand3668]

Dear @mariatorres9789, I do not know all the ins and outs of Mr. Lofton's life, but the little I know horrifies me. That said, I do not doubt that you also have known the Cross. He is finding peace with God (he has mentioned frequently going to confession), and I will pray for you, too. Some wounds can bleed for years. But Jesus is here to heal us.

[@amysill3815]

He does mention the Holy Spirit and discernment around 36:00 or so

[@SMD2308]

Personally, I think the Holy Spirit uses our brain and understanding, logic and reason, to speak to us.

[@VespasianOfTheThird]

For a german its so sad to me that the german bishops are in the first 2 things that come to ones mind when thinking "attacks from within the church". Its so sad because its so true (still). But we "good" catholics still exist here in germany. Praying for the both of you. Amazing oodcast.

[@susand3668]

Dear @Daniel-jx1fk, thank you! Praying for you, that your time of being oppressed will soon end!! And I am praying for Cardinal Fernandez's visit, and the up-coming visits of the German bishops to Rome!

[@VancouverInvestor]

Sadly...it's always the German Bishops. It's quite a rebellious streak in a culture not known for that. Odd...

[@hopefultrust]

I’ve watched this three times now and have found great solace in it. Faith and Reason. Heart and head. When one supersedes the other, we get into trouble. My Catholic nervous system has been given permission to ‘chill out’ and trust that Christ in His church is in control. Thank you Michael.

[@michaelcummings8744]

I love his authenticity as a convert and articulating his process. Thank you!!

[@RosaIbanez-m3y]

Michael you love the Church so much. I can tell from your channel. I thank you because there are many “Catholics” that seem to be happy to bring her down while making money on KZbin. God bless you Michael!

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

What Catholics are looking to bring the RCC down on YT? Catholics are always fiercely defensive and supportive of the faith, as far as I've ever seen.

[@LauraBeeDannon]

​@@saintejeannedarc9460Taylor Marshal is not helpful when he portrays the church as a worse mess than it really is. He leans towards telling ppl they're better off not receiving sacraments at a novus ordor and only go Latin. Staying away from the Eucharist because the liturgy is not of your liking is wrong.

[@saintejeannedarc9460]

@@LauraBeeDannon Taylor Marshal has went pretty radical. I used to watch him because he seemed like such a zealous Christian. Then he seemed to go pretty over the top. I noticed he was totally against protestants, so that counted me out, and he has become against other Catholics that he deems not zealous enough for reasons you mentioned and others. He's just gotten pretty harsh and his circle of who he sees as true and worthy believers has gotten pretty small. It's a strong spirit of legalism. "The letter of the law kills, but the spirit gives life". Stay strong in your love and service to Jesus Christ, our Lord, and may God richly bless you.

[@ragejinraver]

​@@saintejeannedarc9460 Because tell Marshall is right about what he says Especially about protestants also . Being that he was one maybe you should be the one that learn humility

[@MPFXT]

I don't agree. The "Church" is not simply defending the Pope at all costs - including uncharitable and dishonest attacks on faithful Catholics who are defending Catholic teaching especially the holy Cardinals who have issued Dubia to Pope Francis out of genuine concern for the salvation of souls, including Pope Francis who quite frankly has put his soul at great risk given the continued confusion ten years now into his papacy!

[@vinnieleone]

Thank you for hosting this discussion Matt! Thoroughly enjoyed it

[@es8059]

Thank you both for bringing sanity and reasonability to these discussions.

[@hellopaulie]

I have tried to give Michael Lofton a fair chance. Unfortunately, it seems in his increased charity toward the Pope, that he has become very uncharitable toward commenters on his videos. I am not talking about the angry and reactionary types. I am talking about people who have come to a different opinion but are respectful. Michael Lofton is condescending and smug. He does not consider that there is room for differing opinions within some areas of the faith and church. What is worse, is that when converts who are still learning the faith have an earnest question, he has told them to refrain from commenting, that their thoughts aren't welcome because they have not completed their formation. He is a convert himself. That is no way to respond to people entering our faith. I unsubscribed. I just can't listen to and watch the arrogance anymore.

[@Bittiepb]

I have unsubscribed from Lofton's channel for the same reason. He's insufferably arrogant. I could not abide by the passive aggressive and gaslighting comments he would make when people have a different point of view.

[@pconnorscole243]

Same. The gaslighting is unfortunately true.

[@olkoz418]

He's extremely arrogant. It is no shock that an obvious glutton struggles excessively with other sins like pride. The bigger question is why would anyone trust him?

[@joyhenry-dp8nd]

Agreed. I noticed those things too and was sad to see them. I also think he has gone down the deep end where Catholics can’t speak against blatant things that are anti-Catholic because that would be speaking against the magisterium and the papal authority…(according to him) he has become unhinged in my opinion. Look at his podcasts regarding the book The Art of Kissing. Support for common sense evil- giving them a benefit of the doubt when something is clearly massively disordered is wrong. I stopped following him entirely. To be fair to those reading this- I didn’t listen to This episode. Just couldn’t do it after his latest stuff recently.

[@coolhandphilip]

In a word - all this man wants is personal fame and influence. If he actually thinks his theological expertise surpasses that of Cardinal Burke, I would even go so far as to call him delusional. He's basically become a mirror image of Fr. Altman. The Church at this time doesn't need his arrogant voice.

[@Traspyche]

This was a good conversation and exchange. Do I wish it went deeper? Yes. But this was good on Lofton's view and his explanations

[@clarissa7428]

Deeper in what ways? Just curious since I enjoyed it 😊

[@Traspyche]

@@clarissa7428 mostly about the reasons of Catholicism over Orthodoxy since he is now a Greek Catholic. I would have appreciate mentions of Vladimir Soloviev "Catholic" formula since Soloviev himself was a convert from Russian Orthodoxy to Russian Greek Catholicism.

[@jamesgilbert7841]

It is fun to find you in this comment section!

[@Traspyche]

@@jamesgilbert7841 I am always lurking around

[@filthymouthschoolboymakesi1236]

@@Traspyche Hello sir, I would like to please have your thoughts on what is mentioned at 1:10:50.

[@jerroldwhite2741]

Praise God! It is so wonderful that you became Catholic and returned to Catholicism. lol "charitable criticism" An amazing and edifying story of your pilgrimage to the LORD Jesus Christ. I was "born" Catholic and fell away from the Church in my youth. Years of attending different Christian Churches left me struggling with the authority of all these Churches. I listen to all these attacks on the Catholic Church, but it was the authority of the Church; and apostolic succession that brought me back. Albeit, just about the time I returned Pope Francis was Pope. I had been away since the late 60's. Confusion, dissent and schism seemed to be the rule of faith and I was left asking God: Why He brought me back to the Catholic Church? It was difficult. Prayer and fasting left me trusting in the promises of Christ to His Church and His promises to His followers. w/love

[@oliverclark5604]

to jerroldwhite2741, I never "became" as a 'be-ing' identity in need of union an anglo-catholic, instead I acted in my procreation gift anglo-catholic role activities. The purporting presuming inversion of role gift and identity need is for economic advantages by tax-exemption embezzlement and lower insurance costs by fraud of the families of the diseased family member groomers of psychologically and or emotionally vulnerable family members with non-economic, false status inducements of "higher vocation" (Pope St John Paul 11's Council for the Family 'teaching' document, TTMHS, PCF, 1995, 35) or association with this "higher vocation" of consecrated celibacy marriage vowed to man in Christ to consecrated male female marriage vowed to God. Pope Francis out a stop to this in his own case on 10 June 2021 by his exercising in uncertainty if his belief an absolute power of his simultaneous authorisations in the matters of: 1. his ensuring his procreation role gift withstanding the extreme tensions caused by alleged tax-exemption embezzlement of his tax-exempt procreation role gift charity donations as a helper of his Jesuit religious order family within this family of his by Vatican state citizens/employees, Cardinal Angelo Becciu and nine others, presently been heard on criminal inditements in his Vatican state court authorised in his ensuring by Pope Francis, 2. his insuring his need of union of his identity withstanding the extreme tensions caused by an unacceptable risk of fraud on his insuring his need of union of his identity as a consecrated celibate married by vows to man in Christ by the Italian state Parliament "Zan" anti-homophobia bill defeated in early November 2021 following a protest note against this bill authorised in his insuring by Pope Francis from his Vatican state Secretariat of State.

[@ZZZELCH]

Very interesting conversation. It’s always humbling to hear the paths we each take to find our foundation in Christ. Thank you very much for the perspective. -Your Orthodox brother in Christ.

[@EliteObeid]

What a true conversion to Catholicism. When you make the right the decision with Christ, you will be tested and you will endure suffering. These days, people want to be true Christians, without apprehending the struggles that come with it.

[@Catmonks7]

Best video on the channel 💯🙏 god bless Matt Fradd’s pints with Aquinas and Michael lofton’s Reason and Theology 🙏life changing advice to help me stay and become a better faithful catholic 🇻🇦✝️✝️🇺🇸🦅🫡💯🙏 Michaels journey from Protestantism to Catholicism to orthodoxy back to Catholicism is heartfel❤️🫡 God bless y’all keep up the great work

[@totustuus3065]

Thanks Matt for bringing Michael Lofton on the show! He brings a rational voice to much of the chaos within the church. I’ve been watching him for a couple years. He’s helped ground me in this turbulent point in church history.

[@paix1234]

I’m so glad my faith is NOT intellectual. I love God. I love the Holy Catholic Church. And when I go to the Holy Mass I feel like I’m in heaven. I’m not a creepy Mass “snob”. The Mass… is the Mass… is the Mass. This is not about this level of questions and answers.

[@MrDoyle07]

Well said. This is far more basic than this talk would suggest. The Church is ordered by frail humans, it will never be perfect; it is Fathered by Christ though and His intentions for us are wonderful. And, He told us in so many ways that His Church is His and that we are to obey who is in charge because God is in charge of them. He also told us through Paul that all things work for good to those who love the Lord. We are good to simply listen to Jesus Christ. He never left us a written word, He left us direction and teaching.

[@rosiegirl2485]

​@MrDoyle07 What came first, the Church or the Bible? The Church did! Jesus gave the Church and Her Magisterium all authority. This is why the Church was able to have councils to decide on which books were inspired and which ones weren't! God bless! 🙏

[@Zematus737]

Lofton kicked me from his channel early on. I can say this with pride now. Glad that he has come to a balanced view of our faith and left the criticism and doubt behind. There is only ONE ship that will carry us through, and we don't let down the lifeboats; hold the line.

[@Bittiepb]

He is more charitable with the Pope now but he engages very poorly with commenters on his videos. He's incredibly condescending. I eventually unsubscribed.

[@rickhnat9641]

Great interview, now I have a better understanding of Michael Lofton's journey and where he is today it will be interesting to see where he is in 5 more years. His position on those that attend the traditional Latin mass and have concerns with the papacy and modernists control of the hierarchy has raised my blood pressure a few times. I find it interesting that he and Matt attend Eastern Rite parishes. I see this as a Michael Voris era in his journey with an Eastern Orthodox twist. As a person raised in the Baptist and Methodist churches, entered the Catholic Church in my 30's during John Paul II's pontificate, attended a couple of Novus Ordo parishes then found fulfillment in the faith at a traditional Latin mass parish I enjoy seeing their journey and development in the faith. Great interview.

[@MystoRobot]

I see a lot of double-standards coming from Lofton (Having seen the way he treats those who disagree with him, acting as if he had a magisterium of his own, etc). Knowing this, his whole appearance of "charity & wisdom" feels like a facade to me. I do wish him luck on his journey tho.

[@figeon]

@@BittiepbTo say Lofton is “charitable” with the Pope is an understatement. He considers anyone who hurts the Pope’s feelings to be schismatic.

[@waggitnshaggit6592]

Michaels constant Smug Pimping for this Leftist Pope must be pretty lucrative

[@DW-gf7nd]

Michael responds so readily. He shows he knows his stuff. And he humbly admits when he is unsure. I hope he goes down in catholic history.

[@smokykm5]

This interview was fantastic. It’s great to hear nuanced thoughts on the issues plaguing the church these days. Constant alarmism over the church supposedly ending and Francis “corrupting the faith” is tiring, accomplishes nothing but breeding toxicity and hatred. God Bless Michael and Matt for this interview!

[@janela424]

What is the solution? Abandon the faith? That’s insane. You never had faith in the first place then. Pray for the Church and Francis. Our faith isn’t in men, even bad Popes. So long as you don’t start agreeing with it or, Heaven forbid, ditch your faith over it. It’s probably part of the point - ruin the true Church. But it won’t succeed. Even if we Catholics all go out of favor with the world, the doctrines are still right and good. Stick to them.

[@aprendiendoasercatolico9169]

I love Michael, I have been following for about 18 months, I just happened to find this interview that is so candid! I am loving it. Michael Lofton has helped a lot into realizing all the good things the pope has done and clarify all the lies and mischaracterizations against Pope Francis that are frankly unfair.

[@meatofpeach]

The way this episode was structured was beautifully Thomistic: Lofton gives the steelman for his former viewpoints, and then goes on to give his more nuanced perspective that he holds today, refuting those steelmen without relying on any cheap rhetoric. Through Michael's obsession with finding truth, many have benefited. I would encourage anyone who can to support his work financially.

[@requiem7204]

lol

[@paularmbrust2134]

Man I can identify with this guy. I've felt that betrayal on both sides, meaning in the Catholic church and pastors outside the authority of the church. There can be great cost and challenge in growing in truth, and doing so in the Spirit, when your holding to truth often you get challenged in the spirit, and likewise when you follow the prompting of the spirit the truths you know often get greatly tested.

[@rosiegirl2485]

I can understand him clearly when he discusses the information given to his ex wife. I have been married for 32 years. I went to talk to my priest for some clarity and direction, due to my husband becoming addicted to pain medication. He straight up said "sometimes divorce is the only option". I do know the teaching of the Church, and just ended the conversation, and left. I won't even get into the fact that he almost used the F bomb when speaking to me about his best friend who was on drugs, that missed his ordination. Yes, I am still Catholic, and yes I am still married, and yes my husband is still lost!

[@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot]

“When I’m looking for objectivity, I’m not getting objectivity from the Orthodox, but I am getting it from Catholicism.” - Lofton @ 1:00:59 I felt that!

[@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot]

@Ed I don’t think he was dismissive of that teaching. I believe he said that was true but there’s more to it. He uses the examples of Jerome and Augustine right after that.

[@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot]

@Ed PS I would agree with you on that point btw. I actually love that point considering I’m a mystic, however the issue is clear objectivity. Reason and logic are also God given. So it would only be right to also seek those things that pertain to intellect as well. I feel Lofton on that. The East is known for mystery and the West for logic, but we need both. And both sides have them, but they specialize in particular areas for sure.

[@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot]

@Ed I agree. However what I think he’s getting at is clear cut scenarios such as contraception, divorce, remarriage, and various theological issues that don’t have a clear cut answer. With respect to the Orthodox, not all the Bishops are coming together to discuss these things and have a clear and concise answer. They may have answers but it’s not across the board. There’s is no clear Orthodox position. No one can bring the Bishops together from Russia, Greece, Egypt, Ethiopia and so forth to come up with an answer because their are divisions. And since those divisions exist, there’s no clear cut objectivity. His point is Catholicism can provide that space since we have the See of Peter. This doesn’t mean that we can necessarily come up with an answer right away, but we can come up with a Catholic position either way. Hopefully i represent him correctly there.

[@TitoDadi]

God bless you both. May the Holy Spirit lead you always to the truth...and be and instrument of God for those who are confused and in the process of converting to the Church of Jesus Christ...

[@OldSycamore57]

Another good vid, Matt. Thanks to Michael for offering an alternative perspective to the typical trad hyperbolic trashing.

[@nathanielodell2575]

I'm a big fan of Michael Lofton and his commitment to both truth and charity. Thanks for giving him access to your platform. Hopefully, fairer minds like Michael's will prevail so that we Catholics can stop talking out of both sides of our mouth. "Catholic nuance" SHOULD be the bridge between the half-truths of religious fundamentalists and the half-truths of the secular materialists. But that can't happen until we all stop oscillating between extremes.

[@justforrfunnn]

Would love to have Michael back!!

[@southpawhammer8644]

I believe converts were made for such a time as this.

[@KH-vp4ni]

My husband and I converted last Easter as did all our children!

[@southpawhammer8644]

@@KH-vp4ni that's beautiful! I was assemblies of God for 27 years. Been Catholic for a month.

[@KH-vp4ni]

We were atheists! Welcome home brother!

[@EarlSoC]

I came into the church last Spring (Drawn in by Queen Mom). I can only speak for myself, but I find it so hard to care about church drama when I've already experienced what the alternatives offer.

[@jcf150_9]

My wife and I are in RCIA now!

[@marzena3396815]

Thank you both for this video. I had learned a lot...Deeply appreciated. God Bless 🙏

[@MaryseUsher]

This meeting of great minds Fradd and Lofton is ribeye for my soul! Riveted by such a great conversation helping Catholics steady the Barque in the storm.

[@joeroganstrtshots881]

@@peroercegovac1973 Michael Loften is a beast, stop hatin🎃

[@msj5885]

@@peroercegovac1973 came here to say this. Well put, brother.

[@tonyjames9016]

This was the best explanation and conversation in regard to the validity of Catholicism vs Orthodoxy, and the same for SVism. God bless you both!

[@johnpaulfitzpatrick8145]

His laugh went like 🤣->😐 in like .00001sec at 8:14

[@lyterman]

😂 I hope Michael can get a chuckle out of this comment if he sees it!

[@alohi79]

One of the signs that you're dealing with a sociopath... not saying he is one, but it's one of the big ones. JS 🤷‍♂️

[@Homenuggets]

This guy has an arrogance about him that is very off-putting. And the way he speaks to people in his comment section is down right rude.

[@Catholic-orthodox824]

Lofton is a seducer of the ss couple FS doc from pornographer Fernandez. Lofton gets paid to defend s0d0my agenda from pornographer Fernandez

[@stuksy4321]

Enjoyed this as well.

[@erikrobert8007]

loved the quick shot of Neil at 31:00 😂

[@RumorHazi]

I’m only halfway through with this video and I can honestly say that this is one of the most informative and USEFUL explanations of some of my own doubts about Pope Francis. The part about folks having an agenda to use a shotgun blast (my words, not theirs) of misinformation to develop a complete narrative is, while highly effective, deeply troubling. Thanks for this interview Matt!!!!!!!

[@stephensolovyev9824]

This was really good talk! Loved it. Thanks Michael for being so level-headed in all this craziness going on in the Church!

[@RosaIbanez-m3y]

Bravo Michael! I loved what you said about not being swayed by whose the Pope! Truth is truth no matter the circumstances

[@cvs-podcast]

God bless these two Catholic men. ♥

[@sanctealphonse4510]

Michael talks about the 'jonny come lately's' because he's been talking about these things since 2012?! LOL, people have been talking about all these issues since the 1960's. LOL

[@TheOtherCatholic]

The Orthodox have been talking about romes problems since before 1054 lol

[@LauraBeeDannon]

Since Pope Francis, I think he means he's been noticing the lies about the pipe since Francis.

[@alohi79]

Since the 1800s, actually. Not joking.

[@tommore3263]

I was reminded by an internet priest some years ago that a Catholic, if he or she is interested in behaving as a Catholic , has a moral duty when he hears something ambiguous or unclear from a pope, to understand what is being said within the long established teachings of our church and Christ and NOT as something foreign or contrary to same. Sounds pretty Catholic to me. God bless you Holy Father in your most vital ministry and office. May we be the wind at your back.

[@todd7447]

The fact that francis makes these confusing comments constantly is a major problem. He oozes, " I wanna change church teaching but I can't yet go that far so I'll just undermine it with constant ambiguous remarks."

[@jaqian]

I think Francis is very pastoral but I also think the media love to take what he says out of context to create confusion.

[@coolhandphilip]

Yet a circle cannot be squared.

[@tommore3263]

@@coolhandphilip Hence the important difference between geometric facts vs speculation about a person's intent while attributing motives and bad faith to them. Pride.

[@coolhandphilip]

@@tommore3263Or, as one of Francis' theologians has said, sometimes 2 + 2 = 5. Hence, we can expect God to reveal to us, now that we have a pope whose words are always in accord with the Spirit, new ways of accepting what was in the past considered unacceptable. Did I get that right?

[@barelyprotestant5365]

Incredibly charitable. Super nuanced. Hyper qualified.

[@sergesavard636]

Yes Lofton knows more than former Heads of the CDF and Canon Lawyers

[@jackiemartello7970]

He is the most uncharitable anti-Catholic on KZbin

[@IanVinh]

Looking forward to listening to the podcast. Michael is the one who really helped inspire me to dig deeper into church history and theology so I can enrich my faith and understand it better. Praise God.

[@xoNatalieShaw]

Thank you for being so honest!

[@PopCultureCatechism]

Michael is doing such a service for the church. Thank you!!!!

[@1984SheepDog]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel weird about annulments? I totally agree that an annulment is not in any way a divorce, but most times when I hear details about people's previous "marriages" it sounds like a recognition of a civil divorce, not like a recognition that it never was a marriage.

[@totustuus3065]

Agree it can be a very muddy area. In reference to this show, Lofton’s first marriage definitely seemed like a solid case for annulment. One partner requiring the other partner to commit mortal sin through contraception as a condition of their marriage seems like a definite case for annulment. Also they weren’t Catholic when they got married, I’m guessing many of the other conditions for annulment were also met.

[@1984SheepDog]

I could see the tipping point being her unwillingness to follow the teachings when she came into the church with him. But I'm still a little confused because if they were both validly baptized as protestants and were then married, wouldn't that be enough for a the marriage to be valid?? I'm really not asking about ML specifically here, but I've heard of many different similar situations and they've all made me wonder.

[@1984SheepDog]

@@totustuus3065 wow thats crazy. Thank you for the link!

[@1984SheepDog]

@@totustuus3065 do you know if the willful exclusion of children (canon 1101 sec2) includes the intent to merely use contraception in order to space kids? Or to never be open to children? Because that's a huge difference and that sentence isn't totally clear.

[@totustuus3065]

@@1984SheepDog you’re welcome for the link! Honestly it took me a bit to not view it as the church granting annulments on a whim, but rather the church having a high bar for marriage. And unfortunately there are a lot of people within the Church being married who really shouldn’t be. Just a reflection of the brokenness of society I guess.

[@catherinemasak1321]

Trust God Trust Jesus! We have had bad popes in the Church and we will survive this one too!

[@littlerock5256]

A bad pope is one thing; a pope that contradicts Catholic teaching is an impossibility.

[@littlerock5256]

@@peroercegovac1973 If mason Bergoglio is contradicting Church teaching but that is impossible for a pope, there is only one conclusion.

[@Bigramt]

Bergoglio is evil

[@Ultramontanist]

Really fun episode, two great guys 😊👍

[@kimberlyhall3992]

Great video!

[@day3455]

Thank you, this interview was extremely interesting. I myself struggle with the understanding of what’s happening now in the Church, but I don’t think that God have yet any concrete signs to the world that He’s will is contradicted by what’s happening in the Church. I’m not talking about insane “kinda” signs like the lightning on Saint Peter, because I don’t believe that’s anything near to reasonable. We need the distance of history to be able to discern what’s happening. We need to see what unfolds in history to be able to make any true decision on Sede Vacante, or similar arguments. I trust that God will settle this issue when the time is right. And I’m glad you cited how Saint Paul was sorry for poorly addressing the High Priest. That’s also in the Gospel, not sure which but I believe it must have been John, when the High Priest says that the death of Jesus would have been useful for the salvation of many, he says that this prophecy was due to his office being the High Priest, regardless of he being the greatest sinner you could imagine. So, yes, thank you for giving some clarification.

[@maxpowerlive8852]

Taylor is right about the state of the church

[@LauraBeeDannon]

But he lies about why and misleads ppl on what the pope actually says and does.

[@amysill3815]

Taylor stirs the pot. I gave up wWatching his channel because he creates resentment and hatred of the pope. The comment section of his channel is very telling.

[@nerdanalog1707]

wonderful conversation and interesting topics in this conversation.

[@c.b.s.3495]

You know who uses the phrase "radical traditionalist Catholics" to describe the faithful who prefer the ancient liturgy? FEDS!

[@laurenti_8108]

So, when discussing Pachamama - Michael claims they said it was Our Lady of the Amazon. Then Matt points out that Bergoglio himself referred to it as Pachamama... Michael says he interpreted his words then as "accommodating language"... I don't understand how he can impart this interpretation as fact if he never clarified... shouldn't we take his word that it was pachamama? could the same be said about those apparently who called the statue Our Lady of the Amazon? Accommodating language does not make sense.

[@jeremysmith7176]

Did pope Francis refer to the statue as pachamama before or after the media assigned it that name?

[@namapalsu2364]

We simply have to reconcile two facts: 1. Francis did refer the figure as "pachamama" 2. The amazonian said that it is Our Lady of Amazon (ie. Virgin Mary).

[@namapalsu2364]

@@yajunyuan7665 You're not Catholic (but Adventist). You don't know Catholic culture. If we refer something as "Our Lady of ..." then it means the blessed virgin. Catholics do not refer other other female person as "Our Lady of ...."

[@jeremysmith7176]

To my knowledge Pope Francis referenced the statue as pachamama after the media gave the statue the name pachamama. So Pope Francis accommodated us and the media in what we called the statue when speaking of it's retrieval from the river.

[@christiaanmeadows9081]

@@namapalsu2364 The Pacha-demon is an idol. Calling a demon Our Lady does not obviate this problem. It may well make it a good deal worse. It is an objectively disordered act. Perhaps Pope Francis and the bishops had the best intentions, but objectively the act was gravely imprudent an objectively evil.

[@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot]

A lecture from Kalistos Ware on the Nicene Creed convinced me that the Roman Catholic Church is true orthodoxy.

[@ZZZELCH]

This is very interesting. Can you elaborate on this?

[@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot]

@@ZZZELCH On my journey from Protestantism, I was very inspired by the Apostolic Churches. (Catholic and Orthodox) I was convinced that they were indeed the Church that Jesus started. But due to my Reformed Baptist/Presbyterian/Anglican residue embedded in my brain, I still had a resistance toward the papacy. I also had a strong love for ancient liturgy and Eastern Orthodoxy had both of those. So I naturally gravitated that way. I had all intentions at that time of becoming Orthodox, while giving Rome a slight 10% chance. But while watching Timothy Ware break down the Great Schism, he provided the following points in arguments… 1. The Pope did have the authority to change the creed. 2. The Pope did have the jurisdiction over the universal church, but that the question was his sub-jurisdiction. (Which sounded inconsistent to me) 3. But the Pope was abusing his authority and the Eastern Churches decided to pack their bags and part ways with Rome. Considering the Orthodox Churches know in fact that the Pope is the See of Peter and reject him because they didn’t like that he acted out his authoritative role and departed was all I needed to see. That was the schism. To put it in these terms, it was a dysfunctional marriage but the East decided to file for divorce. God loves both the East and West. But one departed from the fullness of the faith. And it shows to this day. The Orthodox continue to have schisms amongst themselves, along with their many heresies. (Not all but different branches of Orthodoxy) Division only leads to more division. And Mr. Wares honest depiction of the Orthodox parting ways with Rome because the Pope abused his authority when he had the right to, is clearly schism. Let’s just say I couldn’t eat for a day because I spent the majority of my life fighting Rome, as a Reformer. But I’ve been blessed by God to even be added to the Roman Catholic Church! It is my life! Such graces and fullness of truth! It’s amazing! Thank you Jesus! Thank Mother Mary! And thank you to the faithful who walk in the light everyday to show the world who Christ is! 🙌🏻

[@ZZZELCH]

@@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot This is a very interesting perspective. I’ve listened and attended lectures by Bishop Ware (God grant him peace) for many years. I would never have come to the conclusions you stated. However, I think that’s part of the point. Thank you for clarifying your point of view. I pray God grant you peace and many years. -An Orthodox brother in Christ.

[@sihtnaelkk2187]

@@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot No, no and no! Please, think again there is probably something you understood wrong or the priest didn't explain well... 1) He absolutely didn't have the right to change the Creed.. Councils were always above bishops. Even functioned as courts and condemned them in some cases. 2) He didn't have universal jurisdiction. He had the primacy of honor (primus inter pares). The proof of that is the very existence of canonical territories (split Patriarchal jurisdiction) and actual Ecumenical Councils for solving theological and administrative disputes. 3) He (the Pope) was the one to declare first he was ceasing communion in 1054, through Humbert of Silva Candida, not the Orthodox. In all cases (filioque, azymes, supremacy) it was his positions that were not defined synodically. The Orthodox stayed loyal to the Councils. You got everything wrong.. Please if you're not going to be Orthodox, it's ok. But don't be Orthodox because of what it IS. Not because of what you misunderstood it is...

[@SMEAREDTheCatholicChillSpot]

@@sihtnaelkk2187 I’m already Catholic and I disagree with those points. I stand with the Greek Father St. John Chrysostom I’m this topic… JOHN CHRYSOSTOM “Jesus said to Peter, ‘Feed my sheep’. Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the Apostles, the mouth of the disciples, the head of the choir. For this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now that his denial had been purged away. He entrusts him with the rule [prostasia] over the brethren. . . . If anyone should say ‘Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?’, I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that see but of the whole world.” (Homilies on John, 88.1).

[@canIbuyavowel23]

Hi. I had to stay home from Mass today because I'm sick (and miserable.) But I caught this talk and I actually thanked God for making me sick so that I would "happen upon" the story of your conversion(s); Catholic, Orthodox and Catholic again. I too converted to Catholicism (at 16) and later converted to Orthodoxy for reasons similar to your own. However, my priest and I had a falling out while my marriage was falling apart (long story,) and it took a while, but I went back to the Catholic Church. However, I stopped going during Covid and afterwards tried to reclaim my faith, but felt empty. The politics of 2016 through the present, depleted me. So much division. So much nastiness. It is never ending. But I recently had a reconversion experience and was feeling great about it, until I started watching Catholic You Tubers. Same politics, different topic. I had always liked Francis, but I started hearing all the vitriol and wondered if I should go back to Orthodoxy. I've been praying for God to give me discretion. And then, voile! Your story really touched me because I could connect on so many levels. Now, I'm feeling that the best thing to do is stay where I'm at and stay away from channels that speculate on whether Francis is really pope or not. So thank you. Thank you very much!

[@rickfilmmaker3934]

Michael Lofton is fantastic. Please have him on again! Thank you Matt.

[@timrichardson4018]

At 9:27. I'll go out on a limb and speculate that the majority of converts from protestantism, and maybe the majority of converts in general, are drawn to the sacred tradition and desire to follow it. So when a convert hears his Pope apparently speaking against it, it's rather disheartening.

[@germain1947]

I wish this man would go back to the Baptist church. He's uncharitable.. He hurts people with the things that he says about them behind their back. Maybe he should stand up as a man and go talk to these people instead of tearing their reputations down. I would give anything to see him go back to his own Baptist church. I believe that's where he belongs. I've never heard him say anything kind or positive about people to uplift people and to pray for his fellow Catholic men. This is very sad!

[@mussman717word]

Oh, no, he defends the Pope against schismatics and sedevacantist, so he's not "Catholic" enough for me, waaah! 😭😭😭

[@A-mb1yx]

Be careful you are saying you wish a person would leave the Church of Christ, you say a very sad and disgraceful thing

[@Kjt853]

Regarding Michael’s comment about defending Catholicism against mistaken Orthodox ideas about it (around the 30 minute mark), I’m a revert who spent about four years in a Mennonite church where I found myself doing the same thing regarding mistaken Mennonite notions. The more I did that, the more I wondered, “What’s wrong with this picture?” and the more Catholicism made sense to me. Go figure!

[@nealkriesterer]

Lofton is the best! I was lost in the marshes of SSPX/sedevecantism for a few years. Lofton and another channel (The Logos Project) made me into a Catholic again.

[@gch8810]

To equate the SSPX with sedevacantism is absurd and uncharitable.

[@littlerock5256]

@@egilskallagrimsson2941 🤣🤣🤣

[@nealkriesterer]

Pachimama is fake news! I fell for the rad trad fake news for many years. Channels like Dr Taylor Marshall and ReturntoTradition are basically CNN, except attacking The Pope instead of Trump. Everything they say is twisted/taken out of context/or just plain made up. I was very embarrased and humbled when I found out the truth about all that stuff.

[@gch8810]

@@drjanitor3747 Nope. They are not schismatic. Schism is a pretty serious and specific charge. SSPX do not meet the criteria for being in schism.

[@littlerock5256]

@@nealkriesterer Francis blessed a pachamama, accepted a flower offering for it and placed it on the altar, he put multiple pachamamas in a church in Rome.

[@TheBrunohusker]

What I love about this is that both Matt and Michael seem to be guys who do have some humility. They also seem like guys who are not afraid to admit they were wrong, and also are OK at disagreeing with people who are still in line with church teaching and not villainizing them. I can’t say I agree with everything these guys say but I’m glad to see them agree that this kind of pseudo traditionalism is not good, all while acknowledging the fears people have and the concerns. These men truly believe the gates of hell won’t prevail and I’m glad to see this. I haven’t felt this assured since 2015 or so in regards to the faith.

[@PaulDo22]

That's what Lofton would like you to think. It's an act. He's a complete fraud. He'll cancel you if you disagree with him on social media. Nasty guy .

[@declancooney1029]

please tell me why he is a complete fraud?? evidence? or are we to accept your opinion(which is vastly superior to mine) as gospel and the Ultimate Truth. So what criminal deception(fraud) shall we crucify him for???? he has an opinion which I may or may not agree with.@@PaulDo22

[@ilonkastille2993]

Shocked at this priest being a demon instead! This is what we have to always understand. The Church is Holy , people are not. We have wonderful Saints which we are to follow, not the sinners.

[@JoseAbell]

Lofton v Marshall debate would be very interesting.

[@quad9363]

Great interview!

[@Luke_19951]

He is wrong when he says you need to accept things that aren't declared ex cathedra. If the Pope isn't declaring a dogma no one has to accept anything he says, even when the Pope does declare a dogma he has to invoke papal Infallibility. This idea of Catholicism being centred on the popes every word isn't Catholicism. It's actually rare that a Pope speaks in ex cathedra because there is no cause for a new dogma to be pronounced.

[@mrhartmann6388]

“This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will.“ Lumen Gentium 25 Of course we interpret that teaching with charity, like when something doesn’t seem clear at first, seeking to see how it’s in continuity with the rest of the faith.

[@mrhartmann6388]

And of course not everything the Pope says, like off the cuff remarks or plane interviews is an exercise of magisterial authority. Pius XII’s Humani Generis, paragraph 20 is another example of this principle being enunciated that religious submission of mind and will is required to ordinary magisterial authority on matters of faith and morals.

[@MilesCatholicus]

Religious submission of mind and will.

[@michaelvalverde879]

I’m always amazed by the secular people hating on the pope so much but worshipping politicians as if they are some sort of spiritual leader…

[@murphysmuskets]

Luke 19:27 But as for those my enemies, who would not have me reign over them, bring them hither and slay them before me. I wonder if Christ was a “radical Traditionalist” 🤔

[@WilliamWilliams-f7t]

Thank you for sharing your spiritual odyssey which in many ways mirrors my own. As a former evangelical convert to Catholicism, I too have been (and continue to be) deeply scandalized by the pervasive moral and pastoral perversions practiced and stealthily seeded into Catholic teachings by ungodly leaders. The placement of a man as Pope who celebrates chaos/disunity provoked in me a deep disgust and questioning of the Petrine authority that had drew me in and reassured me to join the Church (ca 2002) despite the many well known failures and cover ups of Her Shepherds. This personal crisis reached the near breaking point during 2020-2021 with the outrageous acquiescence and support of the Church (ie playing the harlot of Revelation?) to the techno fascist Beast system devouring our world! But for the grace of God, through daily Rosary recitation and never failing to celebrate Mass (ie when deemed obligatory by our Bishop), I stepped away from the edge of the cliff and have steadily journeyed back to the heart of Jerusalem. When doing a thorough examination of conscience the Holy Spirit brought back to remembrance what He had revealed to me nearly 35 years ago when having my Damascus conversion moment from atheism. ALL that is happening was made clear to me those many years ago when I “randomly” picked up a Bible and read the book of Jude. Somehow those words grew dimmer in my heart over the years as the scandals grew larger and more widespread within the bosom of the Church. But alas, the One who is able to keep us from falling (Jude 24a) convicted me of MY sin during this ordeal reminding me that even “the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgement upon him (ie the devil), but said, ‘The LORD rebuke you’ My mind and heart are settled despite the continuing maelstrom without and within the Church. Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ now and forever. Amen!!! P.S. I plead to one and all to read the precious and brief Letter of Jude (right before Revelation) to understand all that is happening.

[@drewloewen6079]

The stability we run to shouldn't be a strong man with loud opinions. It should be Our Lord in the Eucharist.

[@ByzCathCuban]

2:07:08 it's Kamilavka. It is the hat worn by Byzantine clergy. Hence, "at the drop of a kamilavkion"="at the drop of a hat".

[@taswuf1]

Some of the comments regarding Orthodoxy were interesting. I went the opposite route, having lived in a Catholic seminary for 2 years Orthodoxy is culturally different, emphasizing transformation of the soul through a regimen of prayer and fasting. The liturgy is the catechism with a reminder and affirmation of the communal faith each Sunday. The goal is to fulfill the "not my will, but thine" in the Lord's prayer as we seek to develop the "phronema" or "mind of Christ" through the path of Theosis. The priest is a guiding shepherd. The EOC has faced serious persecution in lands of Islam and Communism. Yet it has survived with a clear vision of the turpitude of our present world. A vision that is almost non-existent in Western traditions. As a primarily contemplative church with its particular history, the EOC does not have the same dogmatic approach as Catholicism in which the magisterial rulings can be a bit punctilous, not to say legalistic. Orthodoxy does put more of a burden on believers in this way. You talk about how individual Orthodox believers' opinions affected your view of the faith. Fair enough, but I would posit that Catholic media does the same thing with a larger megaphone. For example the massive overemphasis on abortion, which is evil, but not the sine qua non RCC media makes of it to the point that it is the only issue vociferous bishops advise people to consider when voting. (Mussolini had anti-abortion policies, but some of his other policies weren't particularly Christian) Or that one cannot be Catholic and Democrat in US politics as if the opposing party were infallible in social issues ( that's the abortion thing again, probably). The RCC's magisterium can go to far IMHO. That being said, the tradition of scholars and sanctity in the RCC is an inestimable treasure that is all-too-often ignored, even by Catholics themselves. I consider the RCC as a sister church dating back to the conciliar era of the 5 ecumenical sees. However, at times, it appears more authoritarian than necessary.

[@timothytaylorable]

This just came up on my feed, so I am seeing it for the first time. I long ago stopped listening to Lofton's ridiculously sycophantic musings about Pope Francis. I listened to this episode because you are such a good interviewer, Matt Fradd. I'm sorry to see that Lofton is so noncommittal that he refused to stay in the Church under Francis and that his return to the Church made him a modernist. This is perhaps the first interview of yours that I have seen, that I was unwilling to finish, though I suffered through more than the first half.

[@MaryseUsher]

Two of my favourite podcasters. What a treat.

[@belynmejia5117]

It is REALLY DIFFICULT for us Catholic Apostolic Christians to be obedient, non-judgemental, and forgiving towards The Magisterium of the Catholic Apostolic Church but with our Triune God IT IS POSSIBLE! "And Jesus saith to him: If thou canst believe, ALL things are possible for him that believeth." MK 9:23 Let us pray for Pope Francis, Pope Benedict XVI, ALL of the members of the Catholic Apostolic Church, and ALL of our separated brothers and sisters to be people who obey God, forgive each other, and truly love each other - AMEN!!! 😇🙏👼🌹❤️‍🔥🙏

[@Thomas-oc2ln]

What Lofton is doing here is called "Limited Hangout". Its an espionage technique where you admit a small portion of the truth for the purpose of taking the attention away from more serious matters and finding a "reasonable" middle ground. Between modernist and traditional catholics there is a wide chasm. The purpose of figures like Lofton is to give you an example of someone who acknowledges some of the traditional perspectives, yet remains firmly modernist. He acts as a pressure release valve to keep people who would otherwise become dissidents in the mainstream.

[@mussman717word]

Ha! Go watch more Alex Jones, bro. 😂

[@alohi79]

Nice catch!

[@alohi79]

​​​@mussman717word Limited Hangout has been around since, at least, the 1600s .. nice af hominem, tho. 👍

[@sartoriusrock]

1:05:25 I'd definitely call myself a "cage stage Catholic" lol!

[@philip506]

Could anybody please point me to where exactly in this 3 hour talk, Lofton's recent defense of the Pope Francis position not to evangelize non-Catholics ("It is not licit to convince them [i.e. non Catholics] of your faith."; "Do you need to convince the other to become Catholic? No, no, no!"; "My dear fellow, the last thing you should do is say something.", etc.) was addressed? Thanks in advance!

[@nealkriesterer]

Not sure if he addressed it in this interview, but Lofton has made several videos on that topic on his own KZbin channel. Basically, it's a misunderstanding of what The Pope meant.

[@waseemhermiz7565]

That's because Lofton himself doesn't understand Catholicism. He thinks it's to defend the Pope even if you have to twist his own words. He's been a Catholic for 3 years. Don't worry Francis will get all the ones on the fence off it soon enough. Frankie is just gonna get worse and bolder with his statement and less ambiguity

[@littlerock5256]

@@nealkriesterer No misunderstanding. Francis says not to share your faith.

[@TonyT-jn9vf]

@@littlerock5256 🥱

[@todd7447]

@@nealkriesterer sureeee it is. Either francis is a heretic or the world's most misinterpreted man.

[@amalp9784]

Our man is here 💪💪💪

[@cannonmoseslee705]

When somebody self-proclaims themselves as being charitable, nuanced and super qualified, you know they are in fact, the exact opposite.

[@MatiassRodriguez-qq6jp]

Humbleness is the first thing a christian should learn,and is not easy

[@thunderthumbz3293]

He only self proclaims nuance and that he's proven through his positions against schismatic traditionalists.

[@cannonmoseslee705]

@@thunderthumbz3293 His position? Oh, that he has professed 5 different faiths in the past decade. I guess religion hopping gives one nuance.

[@thunderthumbz3293]

@@cannonmoseslee705 Hes always been a Christian since his conversion. Orthodox, Catholicism and Protestantism are not different religions. You can't even get your facts correct.

[@biankapaloma]

Michael Lofton has helped me to deal with the same questions and confussions created by some of the Pope´s words. The first thing to do, it´s to be patient and very charitable. *Getting away from social networks helps a lot.

[@biankapaloma]

@@drjanitor3747 ok..."Dr"

[@biankapaloma]

@@drjanitor3747 Who? And I need to ask why is he considered a deceiver?

[@luked7956]

What about the things that are really clear and not confusing? Here is an example: "I believe that the intentions of Martin Luther were not wrong. Today, Lutherans, Catholics and all Protestants are in agreement on Justification. On this very important point, he did not err."

[@JohnVianneyPatron]

On March 28, 519, in the Cathedral of Constantinople in presence of a great throng of people, the reunion of the Greek Church with Rome was ratified in the most solemn manner. The majority-though certainly not all-of the eastern bishops approved and signed the Formula of Hormisdas: "…The words of Our Lord Jesus Christ: 'Thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church' cannot be disregarded; these things which were spoken are demonstrated by the results, for the Catholic religion has been preserved ever immaculate in the Apostolic See."

[@mikeDeSales943]

Lofton has had so many issues that are still going on today. He definitely has some issues such as barking like a dog making fun of people, yes that's right, it was in one of his videos. Very unprofessional, how can you take him seriously as a man striving to become a Saint.

[@richardyates7280]

If Michael had trouble with a perceived departure of Pope Francis from the teaching on marriage, would he not have even more of a problem with the various Orthodox positions on divorce?

[@amysill3815]

He’s Catholic now

[@jbwentworthe6082]

When a marriage with children is " annulled " , ( never existed ) what becomes of the children's reality ?

[@GrislyAtoms12]

The reason I didn't become EO is because of the Divine Liturgy. Too much music. I'm just not big into music, haven't really ever been. Even Sunday NO masses in the Catholic Church have too much music for me. I prefer weekday masses when there is little to no singing. Now, Gregorian chant is a different story. For some reason, I could listen to it for hours (and frequently do so).

[@michellemcdermott2026]

same here

[@lindadello9822]

AGREED!!

[@ordonezo1]

Very refreshing to run into this podcast which I've never seen, I also got closer to the faith a few years ago after being away for so many years and completely understand where he was coming from regarding the Pope and what some Bishops and Cardinals have said about doctrine/dogma. Also, very painful to see the Pope's reaction to Cuba's July 11 uprising, no words to describe the disapointment that I felt about the things he said and his silence, I respect the office but I must admit I'm not a fan of this Pope, I even had intrusive thoughts of converting to Orthodoxy but I know the true Church will always stand no matter what...

[@N1IA-4]

As a Confessional Lutheran looking seriously at the possibility of Rome being the True Church, I'm beginning to see that criticisms on doctrine or practice (in the Rome view anyway) are inappropriate because RCs have a structure for a reason. Perhaps I am new at this, but the reason Protestants become RC is to get rid of our analyzing this detail and that detail and be in Christ's Church and trust the leadership on all of this. On a practical level, I'm not sure that it would actually do any good to change how they think. Maybe as a Protestant they can afford to be their own Pope and move on if they disagree with something, but RCs don't have that option (and probably shouldn't anyway). Maybe just truist the leadership and concentrate on piety? I dunno. I know I love to study all of the details and am frankly weary of it all, though. I see, though, that all of the problems we Lutherans have won't necessarily go away if we joined Rome. In light of all of this, however, I can feel Michael's discouragement and don't want to end up in that position either. Kind of a dilemma.

[@j897xce]

It's not that all the doctrines unite, but the papacy is actually something to unite under. Bible alone historically isn't enough. It's so tough! But I recently became Catholic and the final straw was how rooted in Jewish history the papacy and magisterium were. Wish I had good sources, but Scott Hahn is great.

[@belynmejia5117]

There will ALWAYS be the good, the bad, the ugly, and disagreements where people gather to pray/worship, work, and play due to our underlying concupiscense, cultural upbringings, social environmental, etc... This all leads to pride and the desire to have great power which is why we're in a constant spiritual, emotional, and even physical (affects health) roller coaster ride. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of The Living God, have mercy on me (us) a sinner(s)!!!

[@michaelhodges2391]

Much needed conversation! Please have Michael back on in the future. Would love to see him go in-depth on PWA on the topic of the Magesterium.

[@joaodebrito3711]

Thank you so much for this interview. I appreciate Michael's work so much. He deserves a greater audience.

[@brianfarley926]

Spot on about the Papacy. I still have those issues even though I remain Catholic. Pope Francis to put it lightly is a really let’s say challenging Pope on many levels. Michael went through some pain for sure.

[@brianfarley926]

@@valuedCustomer2929 not going to happen. It’s been decided by the Church already. If they do that they’ll be in Schism and those Priests will be ex communicated

[@valuedCustomer2929]

@@brianfarley926 We've already had them outnumber altar boys, invited them to read at the altar and perform communion. I fail to see how female deacons would cause a schism since we're fully primed. It's even more odd to me as Jesus didn't want women at the altar and the Church wanted it anyway.

[@brianfarley926]

@@valuedCustomer2929 an altar boy isn’t ordained. And while I agree with you that girls should never be altar boys it doesn’t change a dogma of the faith. I would never let my daughter be an altar boy. It sends her the wrong message. If a woman was ever ordained it would and if that became official church teaching it would show the Catholic Church invalidated itself. It would cause irreparable damage

[@luked7956]

@@brianfarley926 Would this be because it contradicted previously solemnly defined teachings? Also, do you have any thoughts on thus passage from Allatae Sunt by Pope Benedict XIV on the topic of women assisting at mass, ordained or not? "Pope Gelasius in his ninth letter (chap. 26) to the bishops of Lucania condemned the evil practice which had been introduced of women serving the priest at the celebration of Mass. Since this abuse had spread to the Greeks, Innocent IV strictly forbade it in his letter to the bishop of Tusculum: “Women should not dare to serve at the altar; they should be altogether refused this ministry.” We too have forbidden this practice in the same words in Our oft-repeated constitution Etsi Pastoralis, sect. 6, no. 21."

[@brianfarley926]

@@luked7956 that was a prudential decision. One I myself agree with. However it’s not illicit for the laity to assist at mass. What a woman can’t be is ordained. That’s definitely a bridge to far.

[@hglundahl]

2:38:56 In fact - in St. Robert Bellarmine, the term is also used about apparent popes - whom no one can rebuke as long as taking them as such.