Two Stage Dust Extraction: SURPRISING RESULTS!!

[@stevet5248]

Wow I have not watched you for a long time now. But I remember when you first started out, and I am glad to see you followed your dream and managed to packing your day job, and go full-time woodworking. Well done you are living the dream 👏

[@stanley626]

Reducing to 100mm is your issue. I got a 125mm big cyclone from China for £80. Coupled with a used 125mm P and J 4hp fan Built a shed outside and sound proofed it. The motor sits directly onto of the cyclone and the waste drops directly into my garden waste bin that has a cam system that wedges it to a neoprene seal. It vents to the outside but my workshop is air tight except for a vent by my log burner so the replaced air is heated. I run a 410mm planer/ thicknesser and don’t have a single stray chip. Very pleased with my system.

[@andygardiner6526]

obviously the hose size reduction is the first issue with a HVLP. However if you just visualise what the air has to do within the cyclone it's fairly obvious why it will reduce the air flow velocity. BUT, if you accept that you are putting a filter in the system, you would normally expect a gradual efficiency reduction as a conventional filter clogs up - possibly to very low flow levels. The cyclone will reduce flow initially but that flow will be much more consistent over time. The options are to clean filters and maximise initial airflow or not clean filters and have a more consistent but lower initial airflow?

[@drivethru1835]

@@andygardiner6526we mustn’t settle for this non sense of an industry . Im fucking having my cake and eating it too.

[@brayworkshop427]

Thanks for your endless experimentation on dust extraction, saving the rest of us time and money. That was a really interesting video (for us geeks) highlighting the pros and cons of cyclones.

[@enda1ie]

It would be interesting to see what the thicknesser/planer is capable of operating like by hooking the extractor directly to it to. Then you could determine whether the problem may be the design of extraction in the machine or the particularity of your setup. Nice vid!

[@chris_hertford]

Really like your logical process when deciding on new equipment! Great video

[@cyrilnorrie8450]

Thanks so much for sharing this build. Your honest report and video is much appreciated and it saves us a lot of time and expense as we build our systems.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Glad it was helpful!

[@johnbell1012]

Great video. You have some of the most relatable content for me. I have been venting my 2-stage 2hp dust collector outside and it doesn’t seem to make a noticeable difference in temperature in my shop (summer or winter). Dust isn’t bad at all either on the outside, because very little makes it out unless I forget to empty the bin. But I’d like to see you do the CFM test again with the filter disconnected as if it were venting outside.

[@AccountantDoesDIY]

Thank you for leaving in the “doh!” moments. They’re exactly the type of mistakes I’m forever making mid project!

[@Mrlaughy99]

Hi Keith, i contemplated having an extractor inside the workshop or outside for a while and i decided to put it in an adjacent vented shed. The heat loss is insignificant really, maybe its the fact that i can't heat it much but id rather no dust than heat. I bought a second hand felder 4hp dust extractor on a 6" sewer pipe duct system it is absolutely fantastic i have pretty much zero dust its something i never regret doing. I just kept the standard bag filter because fine dust leaking doesn't matte. Imo id get rid of rhe cyclone for that amount of suction loss and for time saving you have to account for sweeping/dusting time

[@tom314]

I'm so glad someone has found the same as me!!! I found the similar huge reduction in flow with that cyclone as well, mine is now sat in my store looking unloved. I used a similar 220l barrel but straight onto the extractor and I only need to clean the pleated filter maybe once per barrel. I also played with a few other solutions but always ended up back here.

[@kevinrose8568]

If you can do it, just get rid of the cyclone, separator, dust bag, and filter and use the blower alone and vent everything outside the building into a container with a vent. As the say, "Take out the middle men." Your cfm's will increase greatly.

[@NewTestamentDoc]

some really well thought out planning! I'm going to copy you the next time I redo my shop! Thanks! Great inspiration!

[@benjaqsonworkshop9974]

As always well explained and detailed. I was thinking about the SIP but seeing it next to you, it's massive! You've made me realise I can either have great extraction or room to work but not both. Back to the drawing board.

[@jdl3i]

What a labor of love. Bravo from America! Love seeing custom projects that understand and explain underlying fundamentals with scientific testing

[@mrinkswitch]

That wedge for your motor mount is hilarious and relatable, lol.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

🤣🤣🤣

[@MillfieldWheels]

I've got a shop vac and cyclone in my small workshop. It works great and I only need to empty my small plastic drum as 99.9% of all sawdust is caught by the cyclone. I want to improve the filtering by getting a larger model such as the Charnwood that you have. I'm struggling to see why I would need a cyclone. As long as the filter stops the super fine particles from escaping into the work space I can't see the point in separating them with a cyclone. I think I'll just get the Charnwood and work out a method of using a bag inside a drum beneath the filter instead of the plastic bag.

[@TheWardagh]

Wow! A lot going on. Really well explained as always. Hoping to fit something like this early next year. Watching with interest! 😁

[@mags8014]

Goodness! I do so admire your planning, precision and patience in working out what goes where and what you need to make everything work. And the fact that you do show us your mistakes; nice to know such a brilliant workman isn’t actually perfect!,

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you so much!

[@robertmawby3021]

I upgraded my extractor a couple of years ago. All works fine, but I found that because the motor, filter and drum is in a small annex (along with the compressor) it is so powerful that it sucks the heat from the workshop 😢during the winter !

[@Extragonk]

that was really good, looks cool in the end and a good discovery on the cyclone

[@michaelblackmore883]

I was quite surprised by the amount of chips left on your planer. I have the same machine ( but three years old) and use a dual motor Axminster NVD750 e tractor and the big Axminster cyclone mounted over a dustbin with only a foam strip sealing the top and no clamp. All linked with 100mm corrugated flex tubing with 50mm tube to the back of the fence. I haven't measured airflow but I get very little left in the planer, certainly less than you show. I use the same setup on my router table plus my Festool MIDI extractor and a small Oneida cyclone linked to the shroud on the router under the table. Both systems work pretty well. I recently changed the bag filter on the NVD750 and was amazed at how much this improved the efficiency. Previously I had just removed the bag and shaken it vigorously to remove the dust. Very little dust is trapped in either the NVD drum or the MIDI so the cyclones do work well and trap nearly all the dust or chippings from the machines.

[@Bikeeast]

You should do a test of the airflow with the system vented outside instead of through the filter. I have a similar 2HP unit, on top of a home built Thein separator, and have it vented outside now. When I started I was using a filter, and I was disappointed with the performance. I am lucky enough to live in a rural area so the noise and small amount of dust exhausted isn't an issue. I have seen people set up a dual outlet system so they can vent outside in summer, and inside in winter. As someone else mentioned, having the sharp bend right at the inlet of the cyclone will also reduce airflow.

[@teamvtube]

2 big upgrades to the 2hp dusties is a larger impeller (wen impeller is the common upgrade) as well as upsizing the impeller inlet to 6" from 4". Made a huge difference to the amount of airflow for me. Also it might help to have as little bends as possible as the pipe from your combi machine is long, curved and ribbed which will all work to slow the air and prevent chip extraction.

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

Did you notice a pressure drop?

[@JeffreyMoon1974]

I need to upgrade the dust extraction system in my small shop. I currently have a wall-mounted Rockler Dust Right 650 CFM extractor, and I believe they just made a separate cyclone dust system to work with it. You certainly provide a lot of good information here, especially showing how much loss there is with the separator. Depending on my needs, it might be time to upgrade the extractor, too. Thank you for the education!

[@davidcolin6519]

An excellent video that is incredibly convenient for me, as I am just about to start buiding my own large workshop (I expect it to be in the region of 9m x 9m) and is going to include both a planer thicknesser (to a similar spec to yours) and dust extraction. I currently use a cyclone and was thinkiing of a much larger one for the new workshop. However, my workshop is going to be far away from neighbours etc, so I reckon I'll just exhaust it to the outside, with probably some catchfencing or wooden wall so that the dust is contained a little. BTW, I live in northern Spain so, with the exception of full winter, heat loss isn't a major problem, but I will have a pot bellied stove in there, fed by offcuts and wood from the land that we have. BTW, the large dimension are not just because I want space to move, but also because I want to include an heat chamber for getting rid of woodworm without chemicals, though the idea of kiln dying my own wood is tempting, but that's another story.

[@Sol-hl2rj]

Interesting project! Try a smaller diameter hose to the planer, see if it increases speed. The cyclone and the large barrel creates a huge space - comparable to really long stretches of piping. Even try your smaller cyclone🤔

[@DavidLee-cw6ci]

I find the puffy rubber seals for windows useful for sealing gaps in vacuum connectors.

[@geoffreycoan]

Very interesting, a great labour of love and although not as good as you hoped, it’s better than the old system. I like the way you drop the dust barrel out for changing it, I plan something similar for my own dust separator. Unfortunately those anemometers are not particularly accurate; they are ok for relative readings but I wouldn’t rely on their numbers being gospel. If you are able to eliminate any more flexi pipe out of the system, that’ll help increase air flow. I too thought you’d need a pressure relief valve on the plastic barrel, thanks for showing that you didn’t

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you

[@simonlunt353]

Nice job Keith I think any extraction is a art but it looks great too me love watching you in your workshop it gives me ideas for my small workshop 😊

[@mulberryworkshop]

If you feel like adding something. I would recommend you adding another of that windows to see the barrel in the other side of the lid. Reason? Pointing a torch at it to see anything inside the barrel. Otherwise is almost impossible to guess when it starts to get full without opening it.

[@alasdairmackenzie515]

I hung my dust extraction in a small shed outside my existing shed. I used a 3hp extractor from SIP and the Axminster cyclone sitting on a plywood box to collect the shavings. The pipe run from this set up to the 12" planer is 6m and includes flexible and rigid pipe work. The extraction is superb and everything I'd hoped. Maybe you have to upgrade the extractor...?

[@jcoul1sc]

If you are doing what I think, great I dea. I was also thinking of having an M class vacuum for those really small dust activities

[@callofgeorge]

didn't read through all the comments, so someone already commented it or you already considered it, but for that loose fitting filter - just wrap a few wraps of tape around the motor side base to make the filter fit a little tighter.

[@mikewright5094]

You might try adjusting the guards around the cutter block. It helped on my Axminster thicknesser. I managed to get the overspill down to next to nothing with a 1hp extractor 👍

[@joeleonetti8976]

Enjoyed watching it (all your videos really). I don't think you are quite there yet based on the dust. Curious to see if you do finally upgrade to a 3 hp.

[@shaynesabala]

Thank you for a great video. It became very clear to me that it’s not necessarily adding a cyclone that dropped the suction so much, it’s adding a cyclone that is too big for the amount (hp) of dust extractor you are using. I would be willing to bet, if you replace that cyclone with a smaller cyclone the suction would not drop nearly as much and your system would work much better.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

But there are others in this thread telling me the exact opposite, that a bigger cyclone (125mm) would increase airflow 😂 it seems to be some kind of dark art! I believe with hvlp it's about keeping the ducting bigger but with vacuum, smaller ducting and cyclone is the way to go

[@Dickie2702]

Record Power DX4000, noisier but way, way better. Homemade cyclone 50gallon drum with pressure release and job done, all 6inch ducting reduced only at the machines if necessary. No idea of air flow but on single motor it crushed my original metal drum hence pressure release valve. I hardly ever use it in twin motor mode and it's the best system I've ever had. Clean the filter in the extractor every two months, probably not required but I use it daily so I like to keep it clean.

[@roc-wood-creations]

Thanks for adding so much information. I need to something about my system but now very little about it and this has helped me understand it a lot better 🤙

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Glad it was helpful!

[@_J.F_]

Sometimes you can have all the airflow in the world but if the tool doesn't have an efficient dust extraction design then you will get dust in nooks and crannies, and the floor, instead of in the dust collector. There are loads of videos on KZbin on the loss of airflow when using cyclones (I think Matthias Wandel has made some really detailed ones). I also believe that the additional small barrel you installed under the air filter will cost some airflow too. Basically anything you add onto the system will come with an airflow cost so you have to make up your mind and decide if the benefits are worth the losses I suppose. That said you obviously have a lot more airflow now than with the old system, so maybe it is just a poor design on the planer/thicknesser?

[@csimet]

Nice fix, but I would have suggested starting with some self-stick high-density thin foam weatherstripping around the bag flange to seal that plastic bag (~2" wide by 1/4" thick). My Grizzly 1250 CFM (1-1/2 HP with 1-micron canister) system came with it and after the bag slips on & clamps are tightened, it does not leak at all. I find it odd that any bag system would not have it. I added an Oneida Dust Deputy XL cyclone 1st stage and love it. I gets 99% of everything before it even makes it to the Grizzly... rarely have to change it's bag. The crud drops into a custom mounted 40 gallon (150 liter) plastic bin I added that is easy to pull out and empty.

[@eduardouk]

great stuff dude. All you need now is something that the fine dust feeds into to create logs for your fire :)

[@markwalczak3374]

Nice step up love you channel mate 👍

[@dan.w.hoover2556]

Great set-up!

[@jcoul1sc]

I was wondering if coating the inside of the tubes too with car polish or a ceramic or car sealant wax too would make a difference to airflow and allowing. Also using long 90 degree bends would make a big difference too I think.

[@ashleycox432]

Clever solution. Though I will say you've never experienced true frustration of emptying and clamping waste bags until you've used a wall mount Camvac. Those machines are beyond frustrating.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

That looks problematic!!

[@G4m1c]

About the loss due to cyclone Matthias Wandel explains it very well in his videos. Blowers create suction by swirling air around whereas cyclones do the opposite: the suction is partially used to make swirling air. You probably did well by taking a not so big cyclone in that regard, a bigger one would have make more loss i believe.

[@AndreaArzensek]

Reducing the hose, elbows close to impeller and big cyclone all reduced the air flow. I have poweful Felder 410mm planer and AF14 with reduced 125mm hose and it barely does the job. For thw next one my ducting will be 140mm and only reduced at the machine not at the chip collection extraction. Best regards from Croatia 😊

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you Andrea

[@CRAVTBOARD]

Nice video as always. Maybe it's more the lack of the thicknesser. In the last video I also mentioned, that I kind of have the same machine. There should be a small cover behind the shaft. It's a thin metal lid, which is too close the knives. You have to bend it a bit, to make some room for chips. After I did this to my planer, the suction was so good, that there weren't any chips. 😁 Have a nice day👍🏻

[@EvanDunville]

It looks like you have an improved system quite a lot, my setup is similar but i exhaust outside, i figure some loss of air temp is better than fighting with fine dust. I wonder if you can make any improvements to the collection shroud to do a better job on the planer / thicknesser? or if you jointed the board in the center of the cutterhead would it be less mess?

[@garyvaughan6954]

How about adding a flip up shelf on the side of storage table? That way you can leave it up most of the time and drop it when using the Thicknesser

[@jmelchiori85]

Were I in your shoes I might look at something like the Record Power 3 motor setups. Basically up to 3 vacuum motors in one unit that functions as a high volume high pressure system and could probably replace both your collectors. It would handle the added resistance of that cyclone and all the flex hose a lot better IMO.

[@joncorbett4021]

I’ve been running the same cyclone and size of barrel for a few months but coupled to a twin motor Camvac. That’s well below the recommended airflow stated on the Axminster site but it’s been working fine. I had to build in a relief valve as a blocked hose (either 2.5” or 4”) would result in the top of the cyclone bending in slightly and all the flex hose defaulting to its smallest size (and a dancing Camvac)😂 I’m really surprised that beast of an extractor is taking such a hit in terms of efficiency.

[@joncorbett4021]

Forgot to mention. I saw you didn’t need a relief but it could be useful for high pressure users. I copied a design I saw on a video (Jim Overton I think) so the valve is connected midway between the vac and cyclone. That way when you get a blockage, the vac doesn’t start dragging stuff out of the barrel

[@lowellmk]

Thanks for this valuable info..... you may also want to consider adding grounding to the system.... helps reduce risk of explosions.... seriously. Cheers.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

It's a myth

[@hdwoodshop]

I wonder if fine dust could be still trapped in the folds of the filter. May have done it off camera but I didn’t see you use the rattle handle in the filter. Still, great system you have…!

[@christianp3388]

The Oneida Super Dust Deputy is supposed to be very efficient for

[@jcoul1sc]

I plan on using a remote control 240v plug in my future shop

[@henriaaltonen6870]

Nice upgrade, especially for table saw! Very surprising how much restriction the cyclone creates. In HPLV systems difference is smaller (about 20%). Did you test the extractor whit out cyclone on your planer? I wonder is 30m/s vs 21 would make difference. Bit sad that it did not work better on planer, at least emptying will be lot easier. Maybe you could add big trash bag in barrel (held between the lid). That would make emptying even easier and less messy.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you, yeah glad it's not just me that was surprised by the difference! I didn't try out the planer directly to the motor, unfortunately ran out of time. I expect it'll do a better job, but probably still not pick up everything! More experiments required I think!

[@Wellspicedchaffinch]

If you put a bag in the trash can it gets sucked up and causes issues - according to someone on Reddit earlier today. Needs to be a steel can ideally.

[@henriaaltonen6870]

Might be. In theory if the barrel is air tight the bag should not get sulked in. But you are probably right. There might well be enough leakage for that to happen.

[@shaun30-3-mg9zs]

Great video, a lot of rearranging in the workshop, I hope you get it the way you want to I bet it's so frustrating and you thing do I need low pressure high volume or high pressure low volume, as always a great video Keith👍👍

[@anthonyrandazzo8836]

Could I suggest a drop leaf on the table you built? That way you can lift it for outfeed purposes and drop it when using the thicknesser

[@mateostabio]

Hey, nice video. Im currently in the process of designing my garage shop. What are you going to do finally after seeing how much loss you have with the cyclone? Are you removing it or upgrading to 5 or 6” cyclone?

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Please wait for this week's video as it is all about extraction (available now if you're a channel member)

[@johnrumm4786]

Hi Keith, Did you do a test with the planer using the new extractor without the cyclone? It would be interesting to know if the extra airflow alone would fix the problem or whether this is partly a limitation of the collection on the tool rather than just the amount of airflow. If it turns out that extra airflow makes a big difference, you could go for a simpler interceptor that just uses a pair of 90 degree 100mm elbows to divert air in and out of the top of the barrel. Most of the heavier dust will fall out of the airflow on the direction change. You would probably find more fine dust would reach the second stage, but the bulk fo the planer dust should still end up in the big drum. FWIW I find my 1hp SIP is pretty effective clearing chips from a 12" wide DeWalt DW733 lunchbox style thicknesser (even with 6m of 100mm soil pipe duct and a couple of lengths of flexi duct).

[@Traveler80RealOne]

Generally for the best airflow through a cyclone system you want a high air velocity entering the cyclone, which means a long straight run of pipe into the cyclone inlet (meter and half at least for this size cyclone). Most of your velocity loss from your test is probably not the cyclone itself but rather all the pipe bends leading up to it.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I literally showed in the experiment at the end that it is the cyclone

[@Traveler80RealOne]

Yes I saw, but the tests were using different piping configurations, so you aren't necessarily isolating the single variable of suction loss from cyclone (there's also the big velocity loss of the S bend going into the cyclone inlet). I have a 2 meter tall cyclone in my production shop and I had very specific ducting instructions for the manufacturer in order to maximize air velocity through the system, in my case an almost 4 meter straight run of 200mm diameter pipe in line with the inlet. You may want to experiment with your ducting configuration to get the best performance out of the your cyclone system. @@RagnBoneBrown

[@Back2Brick-Ben]

Could you run a test on the thicknesser with the cyclone removed? Just to check the issue isnt with the design of the thicknesser?

[@marquisbois990]

I know you wont read this BUT you really will get better performance if you dump the filter and exhaust outside. Each car that drives past puts out way more particles than your dust extractor will AND you can use some 6inch drain pipe to vent it to wherever you like…even towards the rain water drain (it will never block with your rate of use) if you avoid corners the pipe won’t effect the flow rate. Also, the Axminister cyclone I have was easy to cut out the output to match the intake on the fan…I slotted the fan housing in direct with gasket and got it sealed 100%. Night/Day in performance with my very very similar system.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I read all my comments. It's not personal to duct outside here

[@mikeconroy2651]

I have a similar set up but much better results. For what it's worth, that flange on your Fan discharge takes your fan outlet of 29.69 sq inches and drops it to 15.90 sq inches. So, a magnitude of about 45% restriction. If you increase the fan inlet and outlet to 6" you will see a dramatic improvement in flow as you unleash that fan to do what it was made to do. Also, by reusing the part that the filter mounts to, you are sort of running two cyclones. While the results on separation are awesome, it comes at a price to flow. They package this stuff to be cheap and meet the needs of the guy who's graduating from a shop vac. Your set up is a little more demanding but with some tweaks it should satisfy your needs.

[@timderks5960]

I think you'd be a LOT better off leaving the bin on the moving base, and slightly lifting the cyclone instead of dropping the bin, since it's only attached with some rigid ducting. A bin that size full of sawdust is gonna be pretty heavy, so having it on a rolling base probably is a lot nicer. All you'd need to change is the 2x 45 degree bend coming into the cyclone. If that was flex hose too, you'd have a lot nicer time emptying the bin.

[@allthegearuk]

Have you gone back to test the dust collection with the 1HP extractor now you have added the weather stripping to the planer? I know it might be painful but there is a possibility that you didn't need a new extractor just a bit of weather stripping.

[@chrisharrell2449]

I personally think the axminster cyclones not that good I have more than one cyclone that is smaller than the axminster and I experienced far less drop in efficiency with them, which leads me to conclude its design of that particular cyclone Is not good. At the moment I'm using a three horsepower extractor on the Axminster Cyclone without a filter Directly exhausting outside building and I am only achieving 20 mile an hour on my analometer I don't know how that compares to your form of measurement, but I am very disappointed in the result. Using it on my table saw and band saw. One thing where I am lucky is I am using the Lumberjack Planar thickness and it does not require an extractor it's built in extraction Which I have no complaints about as far as extraction but obviously it doesn't have the best cutter and the provided blades are awful so had to upgrade to carbide blades, but can't wait to get the modern version as you discussed the lack of Spiral cutter in your previous video

[@frederickwood9116]

Venting outside after the cyclone is not celebrated enough from what I can see. The moisture in the air should deal with any remaining particles. What about the air coming into the workspace? It needs to come in as fast as it’s going out. Do you have a hole in the wall ?

[@bradboyer1381]

It appears that you really haven't reached the holy grail yet in dust extraction for your jointer/planer (sorry, US lingo here). Most of the comments so far suggest improvements that I can't really, um, improve on. I can only imagine that you've incorporated those in your ongoing iteration process. Can't wait to see what's next for you.

[@duncanreed2391]

I use the Axminster cyclone with my Axminster planer/thick (blades) and get no chips but I went for the 2hp record power camvac instead, which is high pressure instead of low.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thanks, have you ever tested the m/s airflow?

[@henriaaltonen6870]

​I might be ample to chime in on this matter. I also have twin motor Camvac. So I decided to do the unthinkable and clean its filters to get clear reading :D. Well it turns out that its pretty powerful for HPLV machine. I got 23 m/s on 100mm pipe run. Pipe is shot (about 1 meter) and has two 45 angels on it. I have exactly same looking anemometer as you, and my 1 hp Jet LPHV (looks jus like your old machine just white) gets 24.4 m/s after 2 meter of flex hose. Sorry for the wall of text.

[@j.p.9669]

I know that the flexi hoses are probably doing a lot of damage to the airflow rate by introducing turbulence as the air passes through. Try replacing them with smooth pipe. 😊

[@andbozo1]

I’m a bit dissapointed by the result since I have this cyclone on the way. Nice video as always! Keep up the good work!

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you!

[@BischBaschBosch]

I feel for you mate🤦‍♂️ That loss tho! Id rather the pain in the arse than that much loss! The wheely cart under the bin is genius mind

[@freakeystyley34]

How are you liking the new M12 fuel jigsaw? I've seen it pop up in a few of your videos now.

[@PabloBD]

I dont know anything about extraction but could you put the cyclone after the pump and before the filter? Anway looks like lots of work so far! Congratulations

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Hmmm that's an interesting idea.... Hopefully someone will comment to say yes or no!!

[@thepeginator2556]

You could but half the point of a cyclone is to stop all the rubbish going through your impeller so would be a bit self defeating.

[@Thomllama]

I think if you had added the cyclone and cleaned the old unit it "may" have been fine! after watching you clean out the old filter it's easy to see you were loosing air flow through it! plus I didn't see any real exhaust out of the box it was in???? that would really restrict the air flow!! need a BIG vent in boxes for vacs/extractors to get the air it's sucking in, out of the box, as well as heat! This looks great though!! I designed and 3D printed a 4 inch (100mm) cyclone, it lowers the "new" volume of air flow, but over time it really doesn't drop as the filter never gets clogged! and my much smaller size (but still 100mm tubed) cyclone setup has no where near the loss you are getting!!!

[@DrLoveQc]

Could you try by adding a Y shape splitter and use both of your motors and going back with another Y together to the filter. 😅 yeah Im the kind of guy who would do that. Im planning to do this kind of frankestein setup with 2 electric pressure washers to double the flow rate and make it closer to a fuel pressure washer lol

[@G4m1c]

I have a kity 636 planer/thicknesser and a homemade dedicated 1/2hp dust collection (M. Wandel style). The air speed is only between 15 and 10m/s (when filters very clogged up) and it still do great. I wonder how much those helical head make less noise but also less air flow. All straight knife thicknesser I’ve seen would eject most shavings vigorously on the top just by themself. With planer mode the shavings are only falling down, it should super easy to collect. I wonder if there is something poorly design with the flip thingy that collect dust on the machin? How can it work so bad :/ … Your dust collection looks great though, congratulations. Maybe look at flipping the cyclone direction as mentionned in other comments, might work a little bit better.

[@mrcoutts1211]

Why not try the cyclone strait after the motor sea if you loss or gain power bud ?

[@robertmceuen3630]

I wonder what the difference in suction would be if: using the filter and bag as opposed to no filter and bag with the exhaust run outside through a hole in the wall. I'm thinking of exhausting to the outside in my shop.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I tested that in the follow up video....

[@mikeseymour4608]

I have the same sip motor as yourself and vent direct to outside. Air movement doesn't cool my workspace in the winter aslong as the fabric it warm first the temp returns very quickly. Also i would be very interested to see what air flow you get with the cyclone fitted with and without the filter inplace. I wonder if the restriction of the filter is a factor. Would be interested to see what it was if you remove the filter. Thanks

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I did that in the follow up video

[@MARTINA-gc3tq]

How much air flow lose does flexible hose have over smooth bore? I suspect it is high.

[@dougsaunders8109]

Interesting video Keith. Not sure where you looked for barrels I bought one from ‘Bigdug’ (no relation). By far the best value. It might help for extraction MKIII 😊 All the best

[@techywill]

Does the size of the initial container affect the airflow? Curious if a medium container would change anything, or if it's entirely due to the cyclone mechanism.

[@c.a.g.1977]

wow, adding that cyclone really sucks...well, not really, but you know what I mean! 😄 Maybe a different one could make a difference? one of those fancy Oneida ones?

[@virtualfather]

If you increase the diameter of the cyclone inlet and out you will likely get your air flow back

[@stevebarker4805]

Upgrade the fan on your dust collector, search for WHEN as most dust collectors are made in the same factory and rebranded

[@stevebettany8778]

Really impressed with the design and execution of this system just a damn shame the cyclone buggered the job up.

[@PaliVCiernom]

I am considering buying the same dust extractor (from a different company, although it is a Chinese white-label product sold by dozens of companies), I was kind of hoping it would be so strong it would pull my pants off .. I am a bit skeptical after seeing this. Isn't the cyclone too small for the system? The manufacturer of the cyclone states "at least 1000m3 of airflow". But the motor is rated at 2500m3. Just my guess. Also the inlet port is 5", which makes a lot of difference.

[@mikecurrie1795]

Ribbed pipe is bad for airflow. Could you compare flow with a smooth pipe above the cyclone?

[@benjarvis2424]

I love your extraction experiments and your recommendations for machines. Is there a reason why you don’t put the cyclone after the motor rather than before? Surely that will help with your extraction rate? 🤔

[@RagnBoneBrown]

I'm not sure I've ever seen that done before? I might try it but it's be interesting to hear if others have tried it

[@richardmarquardt6246]

You did it the correct way. If you put the cyclone after the impeller then all of the heavier waste gets pulled through the impeller. If you put the cyclone first after the tool all of heavier waste goes in the barrel and not through the impeller. I agree with another comment made earlier, you have several rather tortuous turns leading into the cyclone. Most recommendations I have seen, and the way I have mine done, is to have a straight section 5 foot section of pipe leading into the cyclone. I realize that some shop layouts make this hard to accomplish. Second, that is a very large "fat" cyclone design compared to ones from say Oneida so I am not sure how efficient that cyclone is compared to others.@@RagnBoneBrown

[@MCsCreations]

Awesome work, Keith! 😃 But yeah, perhaps you're going to need to mod the thicknesser planer... 😕 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊 And happy holidays!

[@AndyJSThomson]

I have a small 1hp system that I built a Thein baffle separator for. It works well even with my thicknesser at the end of a 20ft duct. However, I was careful to match the rotation of the separator with that of the fan so the airflow doesn’t have to reverse rotation between the two. I noticed that your cyclone rotates in the opposite direction to the fan so wonder if that is at least part of the reason for the poor performance. Worth investigating, as it would be interesting to know.

[@G4m1c]

Indeed the air has to reverse rotation in his setup. But I wonder how he can manage to solve that… can the cylinder portion of the cyclone be flipped?

[@AndyJSThomson]

I would build a new cyclone with the correct rotation and 5” ducts to match the inlet of the impeller. My Thein baffle cyclone is also close coupled to the impeller housing with no flex hose between. I was aware that my low power set up needed all the help it could get so made sure to remove anything that would introduce resistance in the system. It worked well apart from getting clogged up when using my thicknesser. So I increased the width of the slot round the baffle by a quarter of an inch and that solved the problem.

[@michaelwillson6847]

Nice one Keith i need to upgrade my dust extractor at some point probably very soon as a dont think mine is quite powerful enough either plus i am also gonna need another one for the lathe as am gonna put it in a custom built room of its own. Do u have any recommendations for one on slightly less budget than u set for yours. Could probably stretch to 250 right now for one. 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@stanley626]

I got a second hand p and j 4hp for £100 with five inch port and a big 5 inch cyclone from China for £80. I built an external shed for everything and it dumps into my garden waste bin. ( that seals using neoprene and cams. The fan shed is full of noise absorbing tiles and you can hardly hear it. I set my own 240 volt remote relay for £20. It vents outside but my workshop is air tight apart from a vent that is behind my wood stove so the replacement air is heated as it comes in. I run a 16 inch planner and do not a single chip when using it.

[@johnwkomdat]

I am truly ignorant about dust collection, so take this with a grain of salt, but I used to work at a large wood shop that spent several months and around $100k upgrading from medium-sized dust collectors at each machine to a huge dust collector outside the building with long lengths of piping all over the building, all installed by dust piping professionals. When the big new system was up and running, it was clearly less effective overall at each machine. So now I always expect to be disappointed by dust collection upgrades.

[@drivethru1835]

Until I discovered the problem and fix for this stupid dust collection industry who apparently been scratching there’s heads too about what to do. We can Fake it, Until we make it. Stay tuned ;)

[@dannyc9521]

Planners always have mess .I've been a mill operator for 18 years and worked on many thickness planners and you always have time clean up 😂

[@THE-AIDEN-PROJECT]

Should have got a camvac 😝

[@RagnBoneBrown]

🤣 so that's why you asked what it was called

[@dracul86]

Is a Camvac enough to be used stationary to handle multiple tools in a small workshop ? I have 2 of them (1 single motor and one with 2 motors, the last one associated with another cyclone just to help me empty bags faster as 55 liters is not that much with my planer/thicknesser) but I dedicated both of them for a single tool each. I never tried to use a single Camvac for everything. Maybe I could simplify the whole setup !

[@CustomVacAdaptersUK]

Nice set up Keith! I wonder if a different 100mm cyclone might help, as you mentioned it does seem to be the only 100mm one available in the UK but I wonder if there are any American companies watching that may wish to chip in? Also great to see you making good use of that 68mm blast gate!! Give me a shout if you need any more :) All the best, Dan

[@RagnBoneBrown]

Thank you Dan, I found it in a box as I was working on this project and decided to finally put it to use as may be adding a disc sander there later. Works great!

[@Vanjonsorz]

Some kind of cyclone bypass for only the planer, maybe?

[@DodgyBrothersEngineering]

The only thing I might have done different is with your little dolly. Fine to empty that drum when it has nothing in it, but might be hard to slide out the dolly when it is full.

[@RagnBoneBrown]

It's fine