Prometheus & Alien: Covenant are Misunderstood Sci-Fi Epics

[@TrueBlueAndrew]

I don’t know if Someone in The comments has pointed this out yet, but in the movie alien covenant, the people that David is dropping the mutagen on and killing, are not the engineers. It’s confirmed in the commentary and or subtitles that it is just another seeded world by the engineers. And if you look at photos of what an engineer looks like, and those people, they are completely different.

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

Must be in the commentary because I recently watched the film and don't recall seeing anything in the subtitles, but then again maybe I missed that... Still, it would be nice if the movie was actually CLEAR about that rather than leaving that sort of detail for subtitles or commentary. Keep in mind, at the end of "Prometheus" it was clear they were making their way to the Engineer home-world. If so, why did they stop at some other random seeded world? And by the way, those people DO look like Engineers, just not the ones with the biomechanical stuff fused onto them or whatever. They look close enough to the unaugmented ones we see in the extended intro for "Prometheus".

[@larymcfart4034]

​@@refurbishedtechpriest9076 Like many things, they "believe" they are going to the engineer homeworld. Films in general have to be understood by the nature of the themes is is exploring. Clearly this wasn't the homeworld based off of the central orientation of the small city surrounding the landing zone as well as the state of the city technologically speaking. This (sub) species worshipped and reveared the engineers so much that it was central to their society and I think this is also why David ended them all because they were willing/wanting subjects to the engineers (Davids philosophical antithesis).

[@japreet_kah]

So so many arguments with people In the comments since day one screaming at me that they are engineers. God I would like to see them now

[@BobbyLalashki]

@@foundsomecashherebro, they are literally NOT Engineers, Ridley Scott has said it in an interview as clear as day: Planet 4 is not Paradise and is one of the worlds the Engineers seeded smh 🤦

[@stevenyanis9051]

Need a quote or a source for the statement. Otherwise it’s false facts.

[@angelcandelaria6728]

Prometheus is highly underrated. I have yet to watch a movie that even came close to that feeling i got when I watched it. If anyone has anything even close to that lmk. The level of depth and inclusion of spirituality with sci fi was unmatched. It was beyond refreshing to see the giant landscapes, temples, statues, environmental layout, and all the little details that made it a borderline spiritual experience. That movie is so good As someone who never tires of learning and asking questions, it is now in my TOP 10 movies ever

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

🙌

[@DemonKnight85]

I feel the exact same way. Definitely one of my top 5 movies actually, and probably top 3. There is so much under the surface, but at the end of the day I guess only certain people care for that storytelling approach. Some people just don't like the ambiguous approach to storytelling where you left to fill in the blanks. But you know what, they didn't like it with Blade Runner in 1982, and then given some time, most movie fans and critics felt a lot differently about the quality of that movie. I feel Prometheus will go the same way eventually. Sundering the whole movie because of a few silly/stupid decisions some scientists make is no reason to deem the whole movie 'garbage." Not even close....

[@Mauriciovargasjr]

Agreed. This movie got me really into the entire franchise

[@vedanthashok201]

You will love raised by wolves. Highly underrated.. Ridley produced. Goes hard on these themes

[@turtleturds]

Highly underrated is an understatement. I love that movie to death.

[@atomsRnot4717]

Prometheus is at least half the David show, and Alien Covenant is 100% the David show. If you want to watch a movie where nobody matters except a pyschopath robot who is pulling the strings from start to finish, I guess that's great.

[@LukeLovesRose]

Yes. These prequels is about David creating his Frankenstein monster

[@LukeLovesRose]

These prequels are actually about David becoming Frankenstein

[@turtleturds]

I'd watch another 100 to get more david. He is the best villian in decades.

[@idiot_city5444]

Yeah, but one has Daniels and the other doesn't... the worst character in any of these movies

[@turtleturds]

@@idiot_city5444 just a placeholder for the audience.

[@Frazful]

I absolutely loved Prometheus. The lore is so deep and I'm fascinated by creation myths.

[@nsm7756]

Personally, the issue with Covenant is that too many questions from Prometheus were left unanswered.

[@JK-cd6zr]

The handful of things that Prometheus did right, Covenant threw out the window.

[@philipdelagarza8039]

And Juicy being in it...

[@Sillymarin]

Should have been a trilogy. I don't trust Romulus would go that way

[@LukeLovesRose]

But that just leaves Prometheus open to interpretation

[@larymcfart4034]

The issue with Covenant are the legacy Alien fans who are all smooth brains that only want alien monster movies, Not neuanced philosophical exploration Via RIDLEY'S ALIEN UNIVERSE... Bro this was going to be a great trillogy until modern brain rot got mad...

[@TrickyWookie]

I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that Covenant links to some colony on lv426 which triggers the distress signal picked up later by the Nostromo. There was never any suggestion of a colony being there until Aliens & at the end of covenant David isn’t a giant ‘space Jockey’ nor is he travelling in the kind kind of ship the Nostromo crew find there. It doesn’t link up

[@RaikenXion]

Yeah that's all wrong unfortunately. David should be headed to "Origae-6" and use the Covenant Colonists to recreate more of his Xenos there. If Averez/Scott and their teams of writers had any sense; they would know how to connect a Romulus sequel to Alien: Covenant, and make it where the specific planet Raine & Andy are headed to, ends up being *Origae-6* that was mentioned in Alien: Covenant.

[@TheBurdenOfHope]

@@RaikenXionits a good idea but Yvaga is specifically not a Weyland-Yutani terraformed planet whereas the covenant mission is a Weyland-Yutani project. They have linked Romulus in to the Prometheus/ Covenant universe though.

[@RaikenXion]

@@TheBurdenOfHope Oh okay, I need to watch Romulus again then cause I missed that. Shame they've only linked/connected it in very subtle ways, and that weird Engineer/Humanoid/Xeno at the end, which hasn't gone down well with many Alien fans. I mean it makes sense because the "black goo" is such a evolutionary agent, that that's exactly how it would work through allkinds of life-forms it's introduced to. I just wish they had established the whole Romulus space station, as a module created and added onto the station, AFTER W/Y made contact with David through the MUTHUR computer program; and a group of W/Y representatives, scientists met with him in a backstory, and he gave them one of his facehugger embryos or something; which was how they started the entire experiments they were about to conduct on the space station itself. I just more prefer a consistency, the idea that these new, original characters of Raine and Andy, heading to a planet they believe to be a natural "Paradise" homeworld; and when they get there it ends up that it's the very place David has gone to, and turned upside down; introducing his black goo and facehugger, Xeno variant into. And now Raine & Andy have to try and defeat David and his repplicated Xenos.

[@thanktink4328]

I agree, Also the technology in Prometheus far surpasses the technology in Alien... makes no sense

[@RaikenXion]

@@thanktink4328 Have you ever seen the Concord Plane (Not the recent terrible game that's gotten canned), compared to regular passenger aircraft in 1980s? Or Japan's high-speed, hi-tec "Bullet train" compared to regular passenger trains in the 1960s? It's kinda like that idea. Or try think about how long a oil tanker may be in service? things like that. the Nostromo towing spacecraft is basically a very old model of Weyland/Yutani "Commercial spacecraft" costing billions because they're built to travel such long distance out into Space; so they're built to last for long periods of time. Peter Weyland is basically the "Elon Musk/Bill Gates" of that time, so he can afford to have the very latest advanced spacecraft built for his space expedition; which is why it looks so advanced compared to the Nostromo. It's like if you've ever seen starwars ep1: the phantom menace, and Queen Amidala has a Nubian class, sleek "Royal Starship" that looks very advanced and modern compared to Han Solo's yt-freighter. So again, different types of spacecraft, and Han's ship is even referred to as "a piece of junk" by Luke, years on from the events of Episode 1. Amidala is a "Queen" who can afford the most advanced craft. It's that same kind of idea you have to think about here, regards the Alien universe.

[@PaoloLery]

Great vid, David did to the engineers exactly what that engineer was going to do to humanity if Janek hadn’t stopped him.

[@randallbesch2424]

The Engineers were going to change Humanity not destroy them using the evolutionary accelerant. A flood of a different sort.

[@idiot_city5444]

Those aren't engineers, lol. Another race created by them

[@TonyC-uz5uu]

David intends to do exactly the same thing to humanity in due course when he has bred his alien army from the colonists. He is a megalomaniac and humanity and the engineers are both rivals to him, so they must go.

[@Dohsoda]

I'm not sure if they are misunderstood science-fiction masterpieces, but I do think "Prometheus" and "Alien: Covenant" are very well shot and directed by Ridley Scott. Its a shame the David A.I. storyline isn't being continued. Hopefully, the next Alien movie or television show just mentions or has an episode wrapping up David's storyline. It would be such a shame to waste such a talented actor in Michael Fassbender.

[@jwinnfield9192]

Recent news would suggest you are going to be very disappointed it looks like. The tv show especially is going to ignore the lore in the prequels as it doesn’t serve their purpose in this project

[@LukeLovesRose]

Both Prometheus and Covenant are still better than Alien 3, Resurrection and now Romulus

[@alexanderscott1042]

Yeah but the TV SHOW sounds like its going to be an outbreak on earth. Sounds pretty umm ..... Special fx heavy for a tv show. How good could it possibly be

[@LukeLovesRose]

@@alexanderscott1042 horror works best if the characters are pushed into a corner

[@CMontgomeryBurns09]

​@LukeLovesRose I agree with you, sans Romulus.

[@Leventa24]

LV-426 is not Origae-6. Don’t know where that is coming from. I think that’s important because you’re asserting that a strength of Covenant is how it ties things together, but that’s just not the case.

[@GtheMVP]

Killing Dr Shaw off screen took me back to Aliens 3 where Noot and Hicks were taken from us. Dr Shaw could have been the next Ripley. Coupled with poorly fleshed out characters making nonsensical decisions, Alien Covenant was infuriating! There's an excellent Covenant prequel novel called Alien Covenant origins at least. Takes place between Prometheus and Covenant.

[@UberNoodle]

True, but the main difference here is that despite the popular hate for Alien 3, that film is an infinitely better made one than Covenant. Covenant is poorly written, poorly characterised, poorly edited and offers very little that's compelling during the movie itself. Everything else is the viewer projecting onto the film, sometimes desperately, trying to convince themselves that they're not just trying to spit-shine a turd. Alien 3 on the other hand (setting aside the disappointment of what you mentioned) has a comprehensible story, memorable and compelling characters who are excellently performed, and it actual sense of tension, drama and pathos. And it has suspense scenes that are actually suspenseful! The assembly cut improves it even more.

[@GtheMVP]

@@UberNoodle I agree 100%, but I'll always hate Aliens 3 for killing Noot and Hicks that way.

[@UberNoodle]

@@GtheMVP Over the years I have come to love the film for its gothic nihilism, and its mesmerising performances. In the end, it's unfair to blame the movie for killing Noot and Hicks that way when Fox had so much to do with sabotaging and hampering that film. Yes, it was rude to off those characters that way, but what the film did with that and how they made that part of the characterisation of Ripley in the story was great.

[@derekgreen7319]

I like Prometheus a lot personally.

[@wavertone]

i took the opening engineer to be a religious faction that goes around creating life, he drinks something that is rainbow metal goo and not the black goo. the engineer david finds looks like a soldier class on a mission to end that factions unsanctioned life creation, armed with weaponized anti-life goo.

[@boggo3848]

It's good to see an analysis like this from people who seem to have actually paid attention and remembered details rather than just shitting on it. That said though, it's worth noting Origae-6 is not the system where LV-426 is, it's unrelated afaik.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@boggo3848 thank you!

[@marleneg7794]

I didn’t watch these until I watched he’s the making of Prometheus. Solid effort.

[@MuckMan_Movies]

I love your discussions. One of my favourite movie channels where I can see your love for film. The way they left Alien Covenant really demands a third movie in the prequels to tie up all the loose ends. It'll be criminal if they never make it. My main gripe with Prometheus is how stupid the scientists are. They are supposed to be intelligent people but they make ridiculous choices, like saying hello to the snake like creature when its obviously a threat!

[@nrrock23]

Just because you are scientist doesn’t mean you are going to have common sense. Dumb people have important jobs like that everywhere

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

100%

[@jonhinson5701]

Yes, the scientist is acting like this .new alien form can be treated as if it was a kitten.

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

That line of stupidity follows right through into "Alien Covenant". Trained professionals who are supposed to be able to survive and thrive lightyears from Earth, oversee the establishment of a new colony, and be entirely self-sufficient. And they crumble the moment they hit hardship and make the dumbest choices ever... Which is basically from the very start of the movie.

[@randallbesch2424]

@@refurbishedtechpriest9076 did their training cover anything that happened to them on LV223?

[@sonderstudios6675]

You guys understand that something went wrong on the crashed engineer ship right? The engineer was mutated into something new by the black goo. So yeah, he doesn't care about his past buddies, he's changed. No one seems to pick up on this.

[@Reprodestruxion]

Also both in deleted scenes and what was left onscreen, David gave a shorter translation of what the engineer and Peter Weyland said, to instigate a confrontation by omission

[@aramisone7198]

30 min of deleted scenes in Prometheus that was not smart some were important. They did not mention Noomi Rapace here she is a good actress.

[@CHRISblummi]

How can Origae-6 become LV 426? Origae-6 is a planet with everything we need to live, LV 426 is a moon without atmosphere that had to be terraformed years after the happening of alien. You guys just stated that around 8:45

[@jimmyrolls37]

Yes you are correct, what they have thrown out as another reason to love covenant doesn't work, it tying up nicely to a1 and a2. Doesn't work. I mean enjoy their enthusiasm from covenant(I don't like covenant but I respect that they do) but...whatever planet they were headed to was NOT LV 426. When the nostromo comes around LV, the only known thing on it is an engineer juggernaut ship already littered with eggs(not to mention already there for about 2000 years, at least the ship anyways) The colony there in Aliens occurs starting around 20ish years before Ripley is awoken in her crypo pod. It very openly does NOT add up to what they are trying to stretch it to. Again, I can appreciate the enthusiasm, the mystery factor is what makes this such a great franchise. But it doesn't come close in this case.

[@borislugosi54]

Yeah, saying origae-6 becomes LV-426 makes no sense. Covenant doesn't even hint at that scenerio, so no idea why it's stated so factually rather than as a theory.

[@franklinandrews1622]

If you’ve never watched alien and aliens Prometheus is a true sci-fi masterpiece (3rd act a bit mid) the scope is the best part and something we rarely get with sci-fi, the horror and gore aspects are more scary than anything in alien and aliens, which are really more slasher style movies and less scifi because of the limited scope

[@legitimatefrenzy]

Having seen Romulus i think the promethean compound varies depending what its synthesized from

[@toptextbottomtext9833]

I always assumed that at the end of Covenant David would just finish perfecting the alien with the hyper slept crew and the embryos and use the rest to spread them across space and not actually wake them up. It's also possible David would reroute the Covenant to LV223 to retrieve another Engineer Juggernaut ship. I didn't think that he would let them get the colony setup because Daniels knows who he is and he has an abundant amount of test subjects. Personally I liked Prometheus more than Covenant but enjoyed both even if I think Covenant is a very uneven film.

[@UberNoodle]

To be honest, Alien Covenant was one of the few times I was actually angry while in the cinema. It was just a poorly made film. No tension, no scares, completely irrational character behaviour, convoluted storyline ... And when I say "irrational characters", they were barely characters at all. I challenge anybody to come out of that film knowing their names let alone anything about their character besides a dot point, like "He has a hat". And the fact that scenes were taken out of the film and put on KZbin that could have actually humanised them is bizarre. I had to fight the urge to just walk out of it several times. And I've watched it again since and I have not softened on my view. This was Ridley Scott at his laziest in terms of everything except for visual design.

[@jimmyrolls37]

I loved the concepts in prometheus. I feel covenant is what ruined that story arc

[@LukeLovesRose]

No. The characters in Romulus are barely characters. The characters in Covenant are far more memorable

[@jimmyrolls37]

@LukeLovesRose then why can't I remember how each of them died? Don't get me wrong, many individual deaths in the series are easily forgotten here and there, no movie is immune to that except maybe the first one. But nothing about any of the characters beyond David is particularly memorable in covenant. Even the back burster scene I keep forgetting even happened, and that was probably the coolest thing in the film. The most memorable non-david character was Shaw, and that's only because the movie had the audacity to pull an Alien 3 on us and kill her off screen

[@UberNoodle]

​@@jimmyrolls37 It's because they're not characters. They just plot devices for a pretty contrived plot. So on both fronts, the film fails. And I know we fans will give a lot of leeway because we love this universe, but compare Covenant to the original film and to Aliens, and even to Alien 3. It is a complete failure not just as an alien film but as a compelling and interesting film. The visuals are the only compelling thing.

[@UberNoodle]

​@@jimmyrolls37 It's because Fox wanted to eat its cake and have it too. Prometheus got backlash because it was a bit out there and deviated a lot from alien movie expectations. So Fox wanted to make a more traditional alien movie next, but it just comes across as a whole bunch of writer's room floundering to make it work. And it doesn't.

[@RyanDesmond]

Fantastic breakdown. Gonna talk about Alien 4? The "comic book version" of Alien?

[@KennethKaniff999]

39:11 the disc jockey 😐 haha

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@KennethKaniff999 😂

[@trs8947]

Covenant is like watching paint dry

[@MsTypeO-]

Love the video!! Just a tip there is a documentary out about Prometheus and Covenant called, Fury of the Gods, it explains why and what happened with Ridley Scott and why Prometheus and covenant ended up being both half made, also @39:10 they did have a draft script written that DID explain that scene from LV 426 but fox or whoever owned the funding at the time didnt back that script, there was also another draft script that was titled Alien: Engineers that was super intriguing (it was before they picked who was directing or producing so everyone blames ridley scott but its not his doing)

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@MsTypeO- thanks! Gotta check that out!

[@MsTypeO-]

Definitely worth the 3 hours or so it takes to watch, but i feel bad Ridley Scott takes the brunt of the complaints, when he's not the one with the money, so hes not the one with final say, and poor guy got chewed apart; for not having "enough aliens" in prometheus, so they made him scrap his original script called "paradise lost"; he wrote for the sequel to Prometheus. they made him include the word Alien in the title along with naming it the name of the ship they'd be on. So he had no choice sadly. I hope they'll let him make the last movie "awakening" the way he wants to, and wrap up his original story started in Prometheus.

[@thescottishgeektwitch7125]

Yall totally lost me when you said Prometheus isn't a horror movie. Opening scene an Engineer being torn apart from the pathogen. Fifield and Millburns deaths, death by suffocation on the black goo, arm snapped and then suffocated by the worm. The Engineer heah exploding. Charlie's horrible infection and then death scene. The "birth" scene with Shaw in the med pod. Fifield coming back as an infected horrifying mix of human and black goo monster. David's head being ripped off then used to kill Waylend. The Deacons birth. So so much gore and horror! It's 100% a horror sci-fi movie and I love it. Covenant had potential but it just fell a little bit short for me personally. I wish we got more Engineer vs David

[@wombat7961]

Being burned alive in front of the entire crew because you are an infected zombie. The goddamn fearless robot who keeps saying "testy" stuff to the humans. The environment doesnt sustain human life no oxygen, also metallic blizzards? The complete insignificance of humanity and human life at the mercy of alien biological life.

[@mr.blonde5344]

Speaking as a father, that Cove. opening scene hits hard. We all at times feel like we are not the perfect parent in our kids' eyes.

[@jwinnfield9192]

Vickers is there because her father is travelling to his death in her opinion. But what if she misses out on something important if she is wrong. It may not be that she at least wants to be there when her father dies in any wholesome family thing, she is more likely ensuring that any last decisions he makes she will be aware of. That is exactly what an entitled rich kid brat would do, that’s exactly why she is there and wouldn’t dare not be. She tries to insert herself into proceedings as notably important with little interest in anything else, she is a narcissist so that’s what you would expect really

[@stephenmiller2544]

the second he said Damon Lindeloff had some really good ideas I had to shut this off out of principle. Spaights had the ideas, Damon just pulled everything that was good and made sense out of the movie, hes trash.

[@japreet_kah]

Shut it off no one cares, no on3 cares about your comment either

[@LukeLovesRose]

Thank you. Im glad im not the only person who loved these prequel films. I loved the dark cliffhanger of David seizing total control over the Covenant. It was so creepy. I never thought i would hate an android so much in a movie. To me, Prometheus and Covenant are the 3rd and 4th best film in the Alien franchise. Alien 3 was and is still the real POS of the franchise... without counting AVP Requiem

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@LukeLovesRose 🙌🙌

[@skagerstrom]

The first 10-15 minutes of Covenant felt like somone had a clipboard with a few bullet points that had to happen in an Alien movie for it to end up in a bad place. And they spent about 2 minutes on each thing. I can imagine someone shouting CUUUT after the landing/crash and then yelling "Allright everyone - into the cave! Mooove it! If we hurry we can be done by 11!". Find signal, land, f*ck up, go into dark hole, (new one for Covenant - be stupid AF), get infected, run, f*ck up even more aaaaand now the main plot can begin.

[@pixelsin96]

I wish the crew in Alien: Covenant went to the planet they were originally supposed to go to. And later on in the film have David crash land there and bring the face huggers and xenomorphs to THEM. I feel like it would've brought more tragedy and you'd feel more sympathetic towards the characters. Rather than them making a dumb decision to go to a planet they knew nothing about and get themselves in this danger.

[@jimmyrolls37]

I wonder what the target planet actually was. Could it be...paradise?

[@LukeLovesRose]

But you're not the writer. What we got is still a good movie

[@pixelsin96]

@@LukeLovesRose that’s why I said I WISH

[@pixelsin96]

@@LukeLovesRose also that’s your opinion. I have my own.

[@RaikenXion]

Well, I actually made a short story idea where David does head to a cave-like planet, where the entire surface is just barren and rocky flat, but the planet itself is just one big massive cave-structure, of naturally formed tunnels systems. And David brings the Covenant colonists here, using them as experiments to create more of his particular recreated Xenomorphs. He sacrifices many to Xenos, planting newly-created replicated Facehugger eggs, which he plants inside the cave systems scattered about. David keeps a dozen or so alive, including Tennessee and Daniels, and the whole story is about them waking up inside this massive, complex system of caves, and they have to try and escape with the Xenos hunting them down. Think - "The Descent" but with Xenomorphs instead. It's all part of David's screwed up game he's playing, and trying to see whether any of the humans can actually survive against his Xenos, because he hates Human Beings for creating him and how they treat him to just "serve" them. That was my idea there anyway. I feel a sequel to Romulus should actually be about Raine & Andy reaching a "paradise planet" they believed to be lush with lakes/rivers/seas, all kinds of greenery, jungle and natural habitat for them to start a new life on, away from the life-contract of work and slavery to "The Company". And the big twist here is that when Raine & Andy actually arrive at this planet, awakened by their cryo pods, they soon find out the planet is anything but a "paradise" but is actually *Origae-6* the planet David took the Covenant Colonist crew to, and has been carrying out his continuing experiments, playing "John Hammond" recreating more Xenomorphs. And now Raine & Andy have arrived here and they have to face off against David-8 and his horde of Xenos.

[@claykeough7898]

Love your guy's breakdowns. I have to respectfully disagree since it's subjective that Prometheus on its own is a pretty well done sci Fi horror and better than it's sequel. I think far more original than covenant objectively.. The characters do dumb things, but not nearly as much as in Covenant and also, the guy you say carries these prequels, Fassbender's debut as David is Prometheus! All facts mentioned I can't see why you'd enjoy Covenant more other than maybe pace or that you were that disappointed in their direction having the Beings be so hostile? Idk I found Prometheus to be much more intriguing and scary with better characters..

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

Thanks!

[@randallbesch2424]

Is their behavior stupid or just uninformed?

[@MaxBarton]

Vickers had daddy issues. She wanted him to aknowledge her; thats why she came. Weyland however treated David more like a son, which is why you can see her resentment toward him in the movie.

[@mr.blonde5344]

Prometheus is my favorite of the 2. So thought-provoking.

[@willblizard3610]

Great pod, y'all brought up some great points a lot of the "Alien Explained" type videos glossed over a little

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@willblizard3610 thanks!

[@TheBman1023]

Love what Romulus did with all of this

[@_Danou]

Theres deleted scenes with the conversation between David and the Engineer .

[@geneticjen9312]

There's barely anything extra though. If you've seen videos showing deleted dialogue between David and the Engineer from early scripts, that's been confirmed to be fake

[@_Danou]

@@geneticjen9312 No i’m talking about the deleted scenes from the movie . Yeah they may be small but does have a longer convo with the engineers if i can remember correctly.. it has been a few years

[@thanktink4328]

How can Prometheus with its superior technology be a prequel to Alien? And what happens to David after Alien? You can't have the technology in Alien be surpassed by new tech in its prequel

[@kyjo72682]

Yeah, I felt that the technology and the overall visual style didn't fit very well with the original movies.. Especially the holograms and the hovering ball drones. It's like it's from a different universe. I'm glad they went back to the original look&feel in Romulus.

[@jackhynds175]

Regarding your final analsys of Vickers - Others have said this better than me, but she appears to be written as a synthetic - perhaps an earlier revision than David, perhaps a separate side project alongside David in a similar way to how in Blade Runner (canonically same universe) there are commercially available Nexus 6 replicants, but then there is also Rachel, who is a Nexus 7 and personally serves Eldon Tyrell. The strongest argument in favor of her being a synth in my opinion is just look at the crew as they come out of hypersleep - They're basically all half dead except for Vickers who is immediately at 100% and doing pushups right next to her capsule.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

Yeh I think they wanted the audience to think she was

[@dealerdave69]

A third ridley film would have made both prometheus and covenant stronger and wrapped it all up. Including the story of the engineers plus David

[@andrewade25]

Great conversation guys!

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

Thank you!

[@DKMovieRanks]

I agree with everything except I believe Prometheus is better than Alien Covenant

[@alexanderscott1042]

Problem w/ Prometheus: i saw it in theaters... I got bored. Then when the xenomorph showed up at the end I was like yeah it's too late... It felt shoehorned in at the last minute. I think my main gripe was there wasn't a character that I liked. I have to admit after watching Covenant a second and third time I was really interested in David. Put in Prometheus absolutely none of the characters were interesting to me I like seeing Waylon get killed gor hos arrogance but that was about it.

[@RegalHankHill]

Love the content and videos! Keep up the great work guys!

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

Thanks!

[@JAYFLATLDN]

The disk jockey lol

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@JAYFLATLDN 😂

[@mr.blonde5344]

Great video. Subscribed.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@mr.blonde5344 thanks!

[@arnthorsnaer]

Prometheus is really only as good as how P2 would have been. Prometheus is mainly setup. Then the production freaks out because of how it is received and starts moving away from the Prometheus story. Covenant doubles down on this by setting up a cliffhanger which simply goes unresolved. Scott is an amazing filmmaker, but I really question his “showrunning” of this franchise. Even still, can Scott please finish this mess? I would see the third one. Perhaps he can use the opportunity to clean up this thing about David creating the Xenomorphs, who is the Deacon. At least setting the record straight on this.

[@balders952]

The problem with Alien Covenant for me was i was expecting so much more continuing from Prometheus. i.e Paradise, the advanced engineers, the goo, the worshipped alien, shaw's story etc. it felt like the directors took a cheap way out killing the population and shaw to to then just give us a scare fest.

[@nrrock23]

I loved Prometheus when I saw it in theaters when I was 15. It was the first alien movie I saw so I just thought it was a cool standalone sci fi movie! So when k saw covenant after seeing all the alien movies I super disappointed. Movie just felt like a re hash of the previous movies especially the beginning and the end. Covenant is 3rd to last for me barely above Alien 3 Amazing episode! Prometheus has one of the most underrated scores of this century which you guys didn’t talk about Unsubscribe!

[@angelcandelaria6728]

The religious allegory is what made me dive head first into the rest of the alien universe 🎉

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@angelcandelaria6728 🙌

[@ahowell417]

They should've kept the Jesus discussion scene!

[@andrewk7800]

Alien covenant is also my third favorite alien movie

[@reloadpsi]

I think these movies had horrible scripts. Alien worked as a horror movie the same reason both The Thing movies worked: the characters attempt to make smart decisions against a threat that's always a step a ahead of them. In Prometheus and Covenant, the only reason there's a plot is because the characters are barely intelligent to feature in Scary Movie; they cause most of the trouble they get into and then do dumb things that make it worse.

[@japreet_kah]

That's not your own thought, you've heard that before you clone

[@reloadpsi]

​​@@japreet_kah Somebody's projecting. Do you say that to everybody who doesn't fall 100% in line with your opinions? Actually don't answer that, I already know you do. What a dishonest fucking weasel you are.

[@reloadpsi]

​​@@japreet_kah Only in the sense that unlike you I understand what Hitchcock meant when he listed the script, the script, and the script as the top three priorities to making a good film. Sorry I was smarter than you about my take on a movie I watched. Go and be dishonest somewhere else, little troll.

[@reloadpsi]

​@@japreet_kah You are 13.

[@japreet_kah]

@@reloadpsi that's what age you would like me to be, judging from your picture

[@finncustomtile]

The comment “alien Romulus is completely unconnected to any of the alien story lines” aged poorly. Just pointing out.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

You see the upload date right?

[@abis1688]

Prometheus is Great. Covenant sucks.

[@shaungonzales7918]

Gaaatooraade.....gaaatoooraaade

[@lucaspdersolii]

Vickers is there cause she has daddy issues, plus she's cynical about alien life but you can tell she's curious even though she acts oblivious about it. Her father was obsessed with attaining immortality (or at least getting a larger lifespan) and I guess she wanted to look him in the eyes as he died and give him a 'see, you are not a god' look.

[@kilroy987]

Prometheus ultimately didn't come off like a movie. The way it tried to confront the subjects at the end sounded more like a forum argument. If I found out that my world was seeded from their technology, then found out they wanted to destroy us, I wouldn't ask why they hate us. Nor would I think they have the secret for immortality. The movie didn't speak for me in the slightest.

[@LukeLovesRose]

It's philosophical science-fiction. It's 2001 for the Alien franchise and I love it. I like Alien Covenant as well

[@justinfarley3603]

Really Bummed we wont get that third Prometheus Film and also we Never Got too See Shaw agian except as a corpse, actually I was pissed about that too(luv Noomi). I think these two Films are prime examples of films that arent well Recieved but age really well and then looking back people realize there is a lot to appreciate in both films.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@justinfarley3603 🙌🙌

[@MrEyeballkid72]

The events of Alien have nothing to do with Prometheus or Covenant. The 3rd movie was supposed to connect to Alien.

[@jessicamou]

The way I see is that David craves human emotions but couldn’t have it, he can analyze and mimic but could not generate real love or true sympathy like human, which I perceived as an excellent character setting unlike many other AI characters whom despise human emotions, so he’s very much like a psychopath in many ways 😂 for someone who’s as self important and has a severe god-complex as David, he won’t accept there’s something a mere human can understand but he couldn’t, that’s why he’s imitating it. Fassbender totally nailed the character.

[@nicholasbennett7367]

No one carried an entire movie better than Kano

[@D_O_M_A_]

I'm pretty sure there is absolutely no link between origae 6 and lv426. I have no idea where you got that link from. Adding and edit here to add that I love the show. Just wanted to point that out. Then read other comments that already pointed it out. Sorry

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

🫡🫡

[@japreet_kah]

Two guys, sitting on a podcast, 5 feet apart because they're not gay

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@japreet_kah we’re literally twin brothers

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@japreet_kah are you saying we should stand? 😂🤷🏻‍♂️ idk what you’re on about, we’re brothers

[@japreet_kah]

@@raidersofthelostpodcast_ it's a meme from vine .... Two guys, sitting in a hot tub???

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@japreet_kah ohhhhhh sorry we never used vine

[@JDE1995]

Big fan of Prometheus, but I have more mixed feelings towards Covenant because it left questions left by the end of Prometheus unanswered and abandons the story about the Engineers just so the studio could lump the Xenomorph at the last quarter of the film and it felt like a cop out. I still like Covenant to a degree, i just feel underwhelmed by the end of it. I loved Romulus, though. It's an Alien film I've wanted for a long time, but I would like them to make a film to finish off the story of Prometheus and Covenant.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@JDE1995 for sure

[@marekkutrowski9048]

I disagree that Covenant is better than Prometheus, but I am happy that you are talking about them and paying respect. Covenant has a fantastic ending, I only wish that we got to see where they were going to go from there.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

🙏

[@harrishill3274]

These guys need to pack up the podcast gear and walk back into the ocean

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@harrishill3274 QT likes these movies so I think I’m good with myself

[@borislugosi54]

​@@raidersofthelostpodcast_you should be confident with your own thoughts/opinions and not justify them because someone else "likes" what you like. Doing so undermines your integrity.

[@Reprodestruxion]

@@raidersofthelostpodcast_its curious the way this person phrased it, walked “back” into the ocean

[@JiuJitsuM4]

I loved Covenant. Prometheus was alright, but Covenant takes the cake for me.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@JiuJitsuM4 🫡

[@thenoob_artist0586]

I prefer David not created Xenomorph. Prefer Xeno Eggs already exist and David simply wanted replicated then. The say was part of the scrip that scrapped that Original Xenomorph murder the other Alien (Forgot the name).

[@QP9237]

F*ck it! We'll do it live! We'll do it live! F*cking thing sucks! 😂

[@DarthTingleBinks]

I never really saw the Engineers as the creators of humanity. That's always felt like misinterpretation of the film that comes the characters themselves who are misinterpreting things. The opening scene is clearly not one of creation, but one of the beginnings of life on Earth. Evolution still occurred, it just may have been guided a little due to the Engineer DNA that was broken down by and infused with the black goo. There was a cut scene that heavily implied Jesus was directly created by the Engineers, but unlike the deleted scenes of Covenant that were released as official canon short films, in addition to actual canon short films (not the 40th Anniversary ones), I'm not sure if that scene is to be taken as canon.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

Cool!

[@timfawcett1669]

I liked both Prometheus and Covenant but the stupidity of the scientists I never got.?

[@kevinthomas2622]

Yes, they are. Glad it's not just me who realises this👊

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

😎😎

[@AyeGeeYT]

Love these 2 movies. Get such a bad rap by some, but I think they’re fantastic. The Alien franchise is one of the best there is, these combined with Alien and Aliens is tough to top.

[@omegaomtv]

Covenant is great, So is Prometheus. I agree Covenant is the third best movie. and it is amazing all the Alien fans who say it sucks. I think they need to watch these movies again. They were expecting the same xeno in star base theme and didnt get it, well they just did it with Romulus, and Romulus , actually aint that good, I rank it third worst movie in the franchise. And Ridley says he is going to do the third movie, so hope he does and that will get everybody to rewatch the others an absorb this wonderful lore.

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@omegaomtv 🙌🙌

[@alengusic4259]

Nobody ever asked where was the alien that came out of the body in first Alien movie 😅

[@Theframeinator]

I absolutely detest the idea of making an Alien prequel then following it up with how they were created in one of the worst films I’ve ever had the displeasure of watching. The entire point of Alien is in its name, we aren’t supposed to know where it comes from or how it thinks, it’s Alien to us. I have no idea how people can watch these 2 films and think they’re great underrated cinematic masterpieces that are so deep. It’s dumb. It takes all of the cosmic horror aspects and throws it out the window saying oh human make synth, synth make alien alien perfect. It’s just stupid.

[@TheDustinBrann]

Here's the point I see a lot of people, if not everyone missing Prometheus never states.It's a alien movie.. I watched Prometheus with absolutely No idea or context that it was an alien movie. As I kept watching, I said, huh? Some of these scenes oddly enough look like alien scenes and I was right. And pleasantly surprised. Most people found out it was an alien movie and watched it with no surprise

[@Zwachhiee]

Why couldnt Romulus be as good as these 😢

[@CHRISMED2]

Can you just imagine if Prometheus had been a movie about that derelict ship from the original Alien. They could have shown the inter workings of the engineers, how they harvested the aliens & how they were killed off one by one & end it by having the chest burster bust out of his chest. Not having the engineers creating humans or no David storyline just engineers vs aliens. Then again it sounds alot like the movie Alien😊

[@Capronice]

Every time I attempt to watch the new Dune movie I have fallen asleep.

[@adamalday01]

Prometheus is better, killing Shaw and to many unanswered questions from Prometheus.

[@randallbesch2424]

Poor Shaw became a subject of the psychopathic genociedal android with delusions of godhood.

[@JayDotGreezy]

Imagine when they wake that engineer up at the end, he opens his eyes forthe first time in 2000 years, and Shaw is squatting over his face spreading her butt.... Things could have gone differently

[@goneonholidaybymistake84]

Interesting discussion. I’ve always preferred Prometheus, but Covenant is also a good romp. Early on you mentioned the Alien movies are “monster movies” and Prometheus has too many “big ideas” - that’s precisely why I love Prometheus: it’s something different, it’s more pure sci-fi, it’s not a monster movie as such, with some great world building regarding the Engineers. It has some fan-service at the end with the giant hugger etc., but it was always Alien-adjacent, part of the universe, but with the Engineers as the antagonists. I’m still gutted Ridley didn’t get to expand that lore, as he was forced to do a more traditional Alien sequel as the audience didn’t get it. I almost wish it had no connection to Alien at all and was a new thing, then audiences might have had a different reaction and then he could have pulled off a “Split”-esque ending (diner/Bruce Willis) for part 2 or 3 where he went “Boom! It’s part of the Alien universe!”.

[@PFredin]

Nice! This is what is missing regarding the Alien prequels: discussion. I find it a bit troublesome when detractors of these films mostly point out stupid decision making of the crew etc, when they're not even scratching the surface. Not masterpieces, no... but these are interesting and worth talking about. I love how David is the main focus of Covenant, such a great villain.

[@JeffreyHand-o9t]

The two movies are not misunderstood they are just poorly executed! Ridley Scott is not a genius film director, he is in fact a very hit and miss direct, with the emphasis on miss!

[@frenchcoupon3391]

SPOILERS!!! Alien Covenant has chosen to make David the Aliens creator. For all lovecraftian fans out there: a Red Flag and a very very wrong decision. The worst in the whole franchise.

[@randallbesch2424]

Many agree with you including myself. A very stoopid idea.

[@angelcandelaria6728]

As someone who did not grow up with the Alien movies or series and found it on my own as an adult, Prometheus is the reason i am a fan now. I never knew that Prometheus was part of the Alien franchise until After. I always knew about Alien and Predator. AVP was awesome. For me seeing all the ancient stuff and the where did we come from story pulled me right in. Prometheus and Covenant are probably my favorite which i know isn’t popular, but 🤷🏻‍♂️ they made me read all the comics and watch every movie in order back to back. The fact that these stories are basically the true history of humans as a poetic epic sci fi, has reignited my creativity and faith. This series is GREAT WORKS full of wisdom. I always thought it was just a sci fi horror until i started reading it and not just watching it for blood and gasps like many smooth brain people do. I now love horror in a way i didn’t know was possible. Horror is a sacred medium. It is the hardest and most boundless format to create in. Step into the blackness ❤

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@angelcandelaria6728 amazing!

[@christophercampbell4670]

I think the David storyline is genuinely cool. Unfortunately, the protagonists removing their helmets so quickly in a completely foreign environment really mars the movies for me in way that pulls me out of the story

[@MegaMK13]

"DISC JOCKEY"

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

😂😂

[@Drewgantka_97]

I’ve found myself disliking both over time. At first I actually enjoyed them quite a bit. But throughout the years I’ve realized that they pose more questions than answers. The entire purpose of their existence was to explain the how’s and the whys but all they did was create more how’s and whys! I can still enjoy some of the ideas they played around with in the films but overall I find them to be a disappointing addition to the lore. Mostly because it’s incomplete and somewhat inconsistent. Especially when you dig into the behind the scenes and studio interference that led to a convoluted storyline.

[@digit861]

Love Prometheus. Covenant I'm mixed on. Love Tennessee he gets stuff done! Here's my issues with the franchise as of now: Alien Romulus doesn't have an identity of its own. It's ai being told to make an Alien move based on the other movies & we literally got it. Not just homages here & there but same action, same shot, same dialogue at times. It's become what Star Wars did- it only references itself instead of outside influences. Now they were headed down this road with the [insert female Ripley actress here] archetype. AVP. Prometheus. Covenant & Romulus- they're there because we need a Ripley. I love Prometheus but maybe we grow to like Shaw just to then get Daniels just to then get Rain. All end up redoing Alien and Aliens finale which were earned because we cares about Ripley. My biggest issue with Romulus is that film does not have an identity of its own. I'd happily take AvP Requiem (terrible movie) over Romulus because it's got its own identity & ugly cinematography. Everything good about Romulus is because it's copying meticulously Alien's look, vibe, cinematography, sets. Resurrection I've got issues with but that films 100% is its own film with its own feel and gags. Romulus is the future its conveyer belt corporatism soulless content. I've seen comments from reviewers say 'with how bad everything we've gotten I was happy with this' 'My expectations were so low that I loved it' That's like saying 'I love my wife because I knew she was the best I could get at the time'. Blows my mind that the best thing people talk about is how good it literally copied a masterpiece film. Covenant I don't love but that movie is a Frankenstein making a monster film. Has its own screenplay, its own look, its own mythology added. David is fascinating although I don't like him designing them. We are becoming soulless eating content machines.

[@richlisola1]

I think Prometheus was the more interesting premise, but some of the dialogue and casting of Charlie Holloway and some of the minor characters harmed the film. Covenant to me wasn’t as good. It was a middling Alien movie leaning into Michael Fassbender’s awesome David too much

[@raidersofthelostpodcast_]

@@richlisola1 🫡

[@Brakiri]

They are not misunderstood at all and they aren't epic either. They feature the dumbest people you can select for this mission, without their stupidity you wouldn't even have a movie, black goo is boring and unimaginative and the engineers suit demystifies the Spacejockeys. Covenant is even worse, dumb people in space, bro romancing androids and demystifying the Alien. Ridley proofs directors don't get better with age they just turn senile and destroy their own legacy with crappy prequels.

[@idiot_city5444]

Daniels is possibly the most boring and uninteresting character from any of these films. Waterson is awful, haha, as is her toupee. They also managed to somehow make their cast of characters even more dumb than the Prometheus crew. That's an accomplishment.

[@derekgreen7319]

Good luck meeting your maker.

[@vincentjames7210]

For me, its the stupidity and awful decision making from the characters. It completely takes me out of the movies. Especially Covenant, my goodness do people make the worst decisions in that movie

[@randallbesch2424]

But you knew more than anyone in the movie.

[@LukeLovesRose]

The planet was never meant to be so hostile. They only discover how hostile the planet is when people start dying. They have no reason to distrust David. No one had any reason to fear robots until Ash.

[@mangamegs]

I really hope they do a crossover with the romulus characters an David to close off this stoty.

[@mangamegs]

Story I meant lol

[@Fideliooooo]

I don't agree with Covenant being better than Prometheus at all. It's some of the best writing done in Scifi, because not only are you having to create an origin story but you have to make it better or just as good as the original which lets be honest it is very difficult because not only you are dealing with expectation of greatness like ALIEN,I mean day one fans were already up in arms about touching it. To be fair prequels don't have the best of rep.s when it comes to comparisons to the predecessors. Many have failed at trying it. However Prometheus was able to ground a brilliant yet simple monster movie. Its actually quite poetic and rare to be able to expand on an idea or story that was based on a contained and simplistic monster movie and then flip it & create a deeper, philosophical metaphor of the creation of life. Im all for enriching plot lines.