Raiding Is Easier Than You Think!

[@Brixegael]

i'm sorry, but when people ask for 100+ kill proof to a raid (or even for strikes recently), it doesn't matter how you feel about yourself, you ain't gonna raid, and that's that. and if by any sort of chance you find a beginner friendly raid, it will never get pass the first boss they try to do, it's always like this. the real problem here is that majority of the people doesn't even get the chance to raid and so they do not, thinking they are not capable because they don't have the "requirement" kp

[@Mish844]

I recently found this problem. I have a workable solution but it's going to take a loooot of time. There are discords making trainings for raiding, but then you have to make your own social networking, build your group, pass the knowledge on. This entire process, for each member of your group, assuming noone leaves in the meantime, for each wing. This is a joke. A sad one.

[@dylancamarena7591]

I tried to get into raids by joining beginner groups, but the problem was it was a bit too “beginner friendly”. we would never be able to get past the first boss, because of one or two people holding us back. I found it easier to join a guild that’s willing to bring you along in a majority experienced group, so that the few one’s learning are progressing and having a better time doing it.

[@Adam_Gw2]

Real

[@insertwordthere]

Best way is joining a prog static or training discord. People are dedicated enough to have actual builds and game knowledge, but you also get enough reps to really start to learn a fight properly.

[@yvindvego9404]

yeah wiping for hours on the same boss, just hoping to get through by knocking your head against the wall is boring and will just make people demotivated and leave. on of the most educational training runs i had was with a commander on slothasor who tald us in discord what to do and when to do it. i went from barely knowing anything to become a shroom eater after just one clear on sloth, we didnt even wipe that many times.

[@utmastuh]

This so much! Experienced teams won't take newbies and beginner groups stand no chance

[@F16_viper_pilot]

Exactly, and I think this point is lost on very experienced people who have been doing this type of content for years. They seem to forget what it was like to learn and there wasn’t as much disparity between the experienced and inexperienced. Now, we have a huge gap in experience levels and the objectives of these people.

[@damiankrzemienowski8263]

Damn raid community truly does seem toxic

[@deeps6979]

It is! They need a PR fluff piece to con players into joining them. lol

[@Snebzor]

@@deeps6979 "PR fluff piece" -- I'm honored you think I work for the company.

[@nicolefrench2968]

Nice discussion and story by Sneb. I agree with lots of what you guys said. I'd like to add my own 2 cents. Regarding barrier to entry for raids. I feel like GW2 has a few things working against it compared to some other MMO's. I'll use FFXIV as an example. The dungeons in FFXIV that you start playing from an early level, onboard you to a lot of the mechanics that stack together in some of the raiding later. The game teaches you over time what to expect when you see certain things. You recognize tank buster cast bars, certain AoE markers and what they mean, when to interrupt, etc. I feel like the onboarding on mechanics and how to respond in GW2 is terrible. What in the fight indicates when stability is needed? When is Aegis needed? Are there clear indicators for these or is it just learning what the individual physical movements of the boss mean? Strikes have helped for sure though. Another thing with GW2 is the lack of defined roles - one of GW2's strengths, but also a weakness in this regard. In FFXIV, the game teaches you from an early point generally what a tank is expected to do - group mobs, move out of ground AoE's, use a defensive CD to block tank busters, and rotate defensive CD's for large pulls. All other roles have their own expectations the game teaches you over time. With the high build/role flexibility of GW2, it is REALLY hard to know what is expected of you in a given fight. My impressions have been that in instanced content, you are expected to know your full kit of all trait-lines and all utility skills so you can switch them up for a given encounter. That's a lot of knowledge and flexibility expected of the average player compared to FFXIV. I know that I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think there is a bit of that expectation for being flexible to adapt to the needs of the group on the fly. FFXIV is much more black and white about a given person's expectations based on their role (Tank, DPS, Healer). Along the lines of no trinity in GW2, how do you know when an encounter (raid specifically) needs a "tank"? I've played all fractals minus CM and most of the strikes and haven't needed someone rocking high Toughness yet for that "tank" role, but I've heard that it's needed in certain raids. These above things make it pretty daunting to get into raids compared to other MMO's. I'm not saying that the way GW2 has approached raiding, mechanics, and buffs is bad, just that it leads to a greater barrier to entry on high level content.

[@Celine-kn5wv]

The story from the bigining is clearly the reason why people don’t do raid. It’s impossible to find a group that would take you in if you don’t know the mechanics. If the player told the group he never really did raid, he would never been invited in the first place. But you can’t know the mechanics if you are not allowed in in the first time. Therefore, only élit players who had the luck to find a training group in the first place are able to raid.

[@MightyTeapot]

Making your own group is the way to go

[@Celine-kn5wv]

@@MightyTeapot you need friend and people who play with you to do that. It’s harder to get a group of stranger joining you as a lead of you have no clue what you are doing 😂👌🏻

[@macabrecreation1067]

Never again touching RAIDS it's the toxic part of GW2 full of elitists

[@l-chan3347]

You can look up the mechanics online.... As someone who does weekly raid trainings and leads a guild with a lot of newbies I still want people to know mechanics. I can tell you about this orb that drops from the sky that a pylon dps has to catch to his left every now and again and if you're completely new you'll have no bloody idea what a pylon is, what a pylon dps is, what orb is falling from the sky, meanwhile you could go onto youtube, type the name of the boss and type the word guide and you would get a clear picture of it within 20 seconds. And in these runs, we don't always have beginners and if I waste the time of 8 other people trying to explain mechanics to that 1 person that just joined every time it would take much longer for something I believe is completely unnecessary and there is not a doubt in my mind that visually seeing the mechanics in a video is MUCH more easy to understand and much more efficient. And I can very often tell which person doesn't know mechanics and which person does. Also even if you have done that raid and succeeded and didnt die that does not mean you know ALL the mechanics. You may have not gotten a mechanic that could've been detrimental to the group fif you failed it that run, or you did, but the group hard carried you. It's simple as heck and with that said of course people don't want to bring in people who are lazy enough to not even once look into the hard endgame content that they want to do.

[@cloudcleaver23]

The social component and the barrier between "completely green" and "experienced" are what holds people back. Instanced content groups tend to have high expectations (many of which won't even be familiar to new people) and you're also more likely to find toxicity there than in any other part of the PvE experience, so people are intimidated by it. And then it's hard to break into the experienced scene without just watching some Mukluk guides and lying about your experience level, because learning on your own, in-game, with a group entirely comprised of fellow newbies, is insanity. Breaking into the raid scene largely depends on training, which is an outreach from the experienced to pull the inexperienced up to their level, and most of those opportunities come from guilds or discord communities.

[@shu-kaidalmatiner7389]

If there were difficulty steps for everyone to slowly climb, as in fractals, with legendary insights as an reward. (less then an actual clear) it would fill the gap. But its a jump from Open World PvP to 10 men organized raid group. There is Challenge Mode already. Is there an easy and medium mode aswell? The emboldened mode is scheduled. Give "completely green" players and option to become "experienced" with a less steep learning curve. Veterans can enjoy their normal mode and challenge mode rewards and returning players/newer players can slowly get adjusted.

[@cloudcleaver23]

@@shu-kaidalmatiner7389 That would probably help ease people into things. I also think the game is awful at giving players meaningful training tools, like zero-reward solo instances. Think about the stupid shenanigans you have to do in order to train Dhuum greens by yourself, for example.

[@shu-kaidalmatiner7389]

@@cloudcleaver23 would be great to be able to spawn mechanic training dummies next to the golem in the areodrome training area. learn movement, learn queues. Sometimes its hard to focus on the queues since they are overshadowed by team mate fx and sfx. having the opportunity to properly learn without 9 other people would be amazing. Is it possible to skip bosses in raids? no right?

[@cloudcleaver23]

@@shu-kaidalmatiner7389 It is indeed impossible to skip them. I think Dhuum instances get sold in LFG for about 5 gold, and you need a special build that I think only two classes can pull off to actually run greens by yourself.

[@FlowerBot]

Totally want to be able to practice and understand wth is going on solo or in a smaller group. I don't enjoy the thought of being responsible for the group failing or not pulling my weight.

[@patrickcollin9896]

This is one of tho biggest things I’ve noticed in GW2 compared to other mmos I’ve played, in ff14 it’s very common to find learning parties or groups where nobody has cleared the content and everyone there is learning. I feel like GW2 is all trainings where someone tells you what to do and it’s a big reason I have had more trouble getting into a W1 group than I’ve had learning any of the savage raids in ff14 which are in my opinion way harder

[@iioxy7530]

I think the biggest reason is the pf/lfg system and the flexibility of gw2 classes. In ffxiv just set the group to 4 dps, 2 heal, 2 tank (no need to care about role 1% buffs if you aren't hitting enrage) and a reasonable ilvl (like 610 currently) and you are good to go. People can't make a bad build as there is only one so the only relevant factor is player skill and experience, and once you load into the raid there aren't really any expectations of the party leader. On the other hand in gw2 the commander had to spend 300g for the tag, needs to know the basics of squad composition to make sure you have the basics covered, for vg that would be 2 heals, a tank and 2 condi (all of that while dealing with a shit lfg system). And once the squad is full they are usually still expected to lead, make suggestions if something isn't working or someone plays a wrong build, unless a more experienced player takes that role. Also expectations seem to be higher, probably because of raids being shorter + easier and experienced players being able to carry a lot more. In ffxiv getting consistent in the first half of the fight within 1-2 lockouts (90-180 min) with randoms and no helpers would be pretty good prog but people probably expect a kill by then in gw2 (or maybe leave before that) Tldr: shitty lfg and more responsibility on the commander Edit: I'll add that ffxiv pf is a chesspool and sometimes someone has to leave or the group just doesn't work and only lasts for 30 min. But because it is quite easy to make a group you can continue from your prog point with a different one. And once in a blue moon you get 7 others at your level who stick together and prog a boss from start to finish in one 5h session (had that in p7s). And I'll partly disagree with their argument that it is easy to have a character ready for raids in gw2 compared to other games. For an experienced player it is, but for someone unexperienced it is easier to get current gear when the game funnels you into that direction than looking for outside ressources or figuring it out for yourself

[@patrickcollin9896]

Great response, thanks for the input

[@juanpunch2793]

If you can beat savage raids in ff you can make your own squad in gw2.

[@juanpunch2793]

You don't need two healers and a tank. One of the healers is the tank. Always. Sometimes both are tanks.

[@iioxy7530]

@@juanpunch2793 I never said you couldn't do role compression, but that's not a requirement for killing the boss in a trainings raid. Same way you don't need alac or quickness. And I disagree with the healer always being the tank, there are situations where a min toughness (or trailblazer) dps/boon support is more optimal, especially when running soloheal

[@atrelios]

I am not sure if this was mentioned, but for me one of the reasons why people think they are trash (me, kind of included) and want easier builds to play is the instant jump of difficulty from the open world to any instanced content. You go from do whatever to you need a good build, boon uptime, to know the mechanics of the fight etc, and all of a sudden you get overwhelmed. You try to join a few groups, but people either tells you that you are trash or the group disbands without any reason (and I am not talking about groops with requirements). At some point you decide that people are right, and that you really are trash because you cannot put your head around all those things that are all of a sudden required from you and were not introduced gradually (or that were introduced badly without any consequences). And if you are like me and lack a bit of self confidence, this feeling stays with you permanently even if you improve. I did improve a lot since I started playing (a few years ago)... I do decent DPS now (at least in the open world bosses and the golem), my rotation is not perfect but is servisable, I understand what boons I can provide and so on, and I have even watched all the guides for all the raids and strikes, however I still I cannot find the courage to actually join a group and try a raid or even the easy strikes because of the anxiety and the lingering feeling that I am not good ENOUGH and that I will waste the time of all other people in the group.

[@demizegw7461]

"Make your own group" is not an effective means of communicating with players that are unable to get into content. It alienates them and is counter productive. The raid communities response to these players should always be to point them to the proven effective pipeline of training guilds.

[@linkazzatore]

and how do you think the people that do trainings started? they magically knew all the encounters or they made their own groups? can't wait to see you raid training every day in lfg

[@demizegw7461]

@@linkazzatore I must have miscommunicated, because it seems you think I am saying that people can't/shouldn't make their own group? That was not my point at all. The point I am making is 100% about how we communicate with these players. Wether we like it or not, in GW2 starting a group has the "expectation/peception" that you are leading the group. So when you say that to someone that is not comfortable with leading, they are then even more put off the idea of raiding. Instead, we should point these people towards the useful resources that we have in the raid community, such as the training discords. Not sure about every day but I run my trainings on Tuesdays and Fridays.

[@deeps6979]

"Make your own group" doesn't shield players from trolls and hijackers. Happened to a guildmate not too long ago. He did exactly what he was told to do: make a group. Ended up getting kicked *from his own group*. It's definitely a community problem that entrenched raiders are ignoring.

[@Nexiebean]

I have raided semi-harcore on WoW and FF14 for years. Yet GW2 i've only cleared some raids once or twice. I want to clear all of them and I love GW2 and would love to clear them all, all of the time. I feel like I can't do that in GW2 because of the culture around raiding in GW2. Now hear me out. On WoW or FF14. I can apply to join groups, training or experienced. Put in a message that i'm experienced in previous raids, or even other mmos. "Give me a shot or something". Then I can work at it and prove my worth sorta speak, kill bosses. Gain achievements, then most importantly. I can show gear upgrades, history and parses for the future raids I do. The cycle repeats and it's easier for me to join groups after it as I have now history to show. I have fun raiding and even after long breaks I can come back join new raids, progress etc. Here's where my issue in GW2 comes in. There's literally only one place I can go. Training raids, which i have being a part of a few times. Now, don't get me wrong training groups are great and what they do is amazing, getting people into raiding and what not. The problem lies is what if you're a raid experienced kind of player, but you only lack the experience in the specific raid you want to do? Training groups, is usually 80% complete raiding newbies who have 0 raiding experience anywhere. So after a while where I feel like I should be progressing to something more challenging, where still hitting our head on a fairly easy boss. So for me It's really draining and I feel like i'm wasting my time. I don't want to join an experience group (even though I can't anyway) because I don't want to be carried. So i'm stuck in this limbo middle ground where I cannot join any statics or groups online that are pushing harder bosses because I have no proof I can perform, and I don't want to wipe on Gorsavol for 2 hours because i'm a healer doing 80% of the damage as a dps is doing. I don't want to spend hours and hours working my way through training groups every week just to get *enough* kill proof to try something only slightly more challenging. I ask online or forums on places to find groups similar to me of more raider experienced players who want to have a shot clearing raids for the first time and I get directed straight to Training groups every time. I just simply don't have this issue at all in other MMOs. It's really easy in other mmos to get into groups of difficulity that suit you. In GW2 there's like this HUGE gap between full clear experience groups and complete novice groups. The training groups that clear the harder bosses are usually players who stuck with them for a long time to earn ranks or whatever to hit that. Which at that point I would much rather find a raiding guild, which ironically are hard to find if you're not experienced already to meld into.

[@frankmills1917]

Why not go completely blind? Or at least read or watch some guides and then join an experienced group since you are confident with your skills? This is what I did when I tried doing kite/g2 for wing 5 and it's one of the hardest roles to do raid-wise. I put the effort to at least learn the fight and mechanics beforehand by watching/reading guides online. I failed a couple of times but managed to pull through and finish the raid.

[@katharinepearson8150]

it is not so hard to join a static group. Sneb has guilds on NA and EU which help people find a static group. You do not need to have KP to join one and people there, from what I heard, are not new to raids anymore but on different levels of knowledge; either prog HoT raids or full clears of HoT with CM, moving to prog PoF, into full clears there, prog CM....... I myself started with training raids and ask people in the training guild if anyone would want to form static group and 1 week later we started raiding as a group. Now doing PoF prog.

[@atd9945]

@@frankmills1917 "join an experienced group since you are confident with your skills" "W1 |250 kp| " after 1 wipe: "No time for this. -comm" "well, good luck you all. -dps"

[@KornSaw]

As a new player it definitely feels like the content is meant to be taught not learned

[@daydev2599]

I got acclimatized to making my own groups with dungeons because the threshold for success is so very low (esp. story). Now I'm up to making my own T4 fractal groups, and even though I always feel like such an impostor with my

[@MiTaReX]

T4 fractals are harder than normal mode strikes, so you have nothing to fear =D

[@Chris-pe1zx]

Mastery is pretty useless anyways, as long as you have autoloot and any applicable masteries for what you're doing (fractals or raids or whatever) you're good to go. Half of them are useless and super specific to the maps you get them on

[@johnmerritt5351]

I see plenty of 455 masteries/30k+ achiev points that do worse is everyway than some ~200 masteries 8k+ achiev in fractal or strike, don't worry about that 😅

[@Maldoror_Ducasse]

My problem with raids (at least in NA) is the fact that you only see maybe 6 groups in LFG, and 5 of them are just people selling the run. So if you don't have enough time to get involved in a guild and get a spot, you are doomed.

[@linkazzatore]

meanwhile there are other 100 people watching the lfg waiting for someone to tag up and nobody is playing the game, smart practice!

[@deeps6979]

The reason why is "all welcome" and similar groups can fill quickly. One of the points the vid tries to make is that if you make your own group, you can at least gather some players to give the content a try. At least until some impatient metababy commandeers your group and starts kicking people, but that's a separate problem with GW2's crappy grouping tools.

[@Mystic___]

I never did a raid and the one thing holding me back is I'm scared to do badly.

[@trigguerrier1308]

If on NA, Snebzor guid sets up statics yo could get into. Or if you like to just dip your toes in one weekend reach out to me.

[@supersploof]

i was nervous for my first raid too, but through the hardstuck discord i found a commander willing to train a group of newbies and we cleared wing 1 first time no issues, sure people failed mechanics and died but everything got explained well and then its just a matter of listening and learning, trying not to make the same mistake twice, as long as you know how your class works and have a decent build, you should have no issues other than a bit of learning the mechanics

[@wolfyno3950]

4 words: Elitism + bad party system! Elitism: - People require some high or even crazy high kp to join even some easy nm runs, most of the time random numbers - High LI isn't taken into account anymore, they require the kpme stuff - Players don't want to waste time with newbies, which is within their right, they just want to finish their runs and be done with it. Bad party system: - There is no automatic lfg / joining party system like the other MMOs - Kind of a forced social aspect and interaction - Terrible kp system with the rng boss drops - Raids rely on a Commander stepping up and starting a group instead of it being it automatic, which instills that reliance on guidance from someone else instead of learning all mechanics... this also destroys any chance for newcomers learning the more demanding jobs like tanking, healing, kiting or a combination of those 3... "already hard enough to get a spot, like hell I am gonna waste it trying new things. I just wanna do the run and be done with it". Same for dungeons, no automatic. - No incentives for veteran raiders to help, other than being helpful, repeating a Raid is a waste of time. .

[@deeps6979]

Seriously though. FFXIV handles this so much better, and I've had no problem getting into raid content there. -Duty Finder queue makes it super easy to get into a group -10-minute minimum participation or those who leave/kick get a penalty and can't queue for a while (really need this in GW2) -Party Finder is better laid out and allows exclusion of first-timers (kinda necessary for prog groups) -Roulettes and first-time rewards give veterans more incentive to participate and guide newer players

[@wolfyno3950]

@@deeps6979 yea, these are good ideas.

[@nayzak9791]

​​​@@deeps6979you forget that ffxiv has a rock non leaniant builds... They have jobs for tanking jobs for healing and jobs for dps... Traditional mmo trio stuff which gw2 doesn't have.... If you play guardian there is no way the current system is able to know of you're a healer, dps or boon healer, boon dps... Etc... Which imo should be easy to implement seeing that mods/anet partners can see pvp builds in tournaments... So why not let the auto lfg offer a "choose your role" where the player picks if they want to be healer or dps, and boons they would provide in the build they're raiding with And there is no system in gw2 currently to distinguish between players who are completely new to raids and players who are experienced... Even tho it's an easy fix by implementing a system to see how much the player done each boss... But how is the system gonna distribute the squad...? Like 5 experienced players and 5 noobs? Healers should be experienced? But what about experienced dps raiders? Wouldn't the boon dps burden the group if they're noobs who can't keep the boons 90% up? It's stuff like that that complicate implementing an auto lfg system... But unless there is one, the raiding scene will stay stagnant

[@adarg2]

Allow me to play devil's advocate. I once got called a "trash baby" and was kicked from a group for having the wrong food, we hadn't even done a single pull. It's behavior like this that makes people avoid making their own groups. They're afraid those same abusive people are going to join them and verbally harass them again. Not to mention it really takes the wind out of one's sails to be called names, etc. and then to expect that person to have the confidence to make their own group? C'mon bro I love you but let's be real, most people are going to give up and avoid it instead of putting themselves in a place where they can be hurt so easily. When I started my own group (Contradictory to what I just said, I know. I believe I am an outlier, you see things as you will) I made sure never to kick anyone for gameplay reasons. These can be corrected, and fairly quickly with some coaching. No need for names, bad behavior, etc. I've been a raid "leader" for over three years now, still haven't kicked anyone. My group has cleared all raids/strikes, many of the CMs, and many of us were new to raids when they started.

[@MightyTeapot]

I would invite you to consider how many good experiences you had for that single bad experience, I would guess that the negative experiences are an extreme minority.

[@adarg2]

@@MightyTeapot I'm not chalking up any number of good times to a bad one, sorry. Moreover I didn't decide to become a commander because of this abuse. I did it for my wife and our friend. As far as I'm concerned there's no excuse for treating people that way and it's why I try to be the best commander I can.

[@MightyTeapot]

@@adarg2 There is no excuse but you're always going to have at least one negative experience in content, I've had plenty of extremely negative experiences in open world (far more than in raids in fact) but I don't let that color my view of the entire community.

[@adarg2]

​@@MightyTeapot I think there's a disconnect here, friend. I don't see the *entire* community this way. Nor did I even say that. If I felt that way I wouldn't pull in pugs every time I get my squad together. We're not a "static" of ten. I'm saying I had this experience, and others like it, and I do what I can to be the change I want to see in this game mode. That is, less perceived barrier-to-entry, and more positivity and encouragement. Sorry for all the edits.

[@deeps6979]

Teapot there saying there's no excuse, yet his behavior is exactly what you describe: dismissive and entitled. Similarly vile on the GW2 subreddit. And yet the raid tier wonders why people don't want to join them...

[@schampioo6978]

To add to the story at the end: Failing doesn't mean being a failure. It's a conclusion that is easy to fall into during difficult times

[@deeps6979]

The biggest problem with GW2's raid community is that they're averse to failure. And I don't mean those who are trying to learn raids. A lot of folks are find going in blind and figuring it out as they go or getting direction/tips as they run into problems. That's not how raiders work. They've entitled themselves to the rewards and want the most assured odds of getting them.

[@hughjass2896]

Watch the mukluk guides on the bosses themselves, learn one mechanic, cannons on wing 1, mushrooms on wing 2, things like that, join up, call out that the mechanic is yours and not to be disputed, and wing it on the rest, you will learn as you go, I've had the game 2 months, on my 2nd week of playing I had been through all 7 wings and now I host my own raid lobbies. Learning that each sub group needed Alac and quick and how to organize a raid group and the professions needed took me longer than learning the raids lol

[@ChocoTacoMan]

"I'm sad that people think they can't do things" proceeds to tell story of a person not doing things correctly in a group and pissing you off... Yeah, I know the group description said otherwise, but I don't know if I could have read it right. That's why I don't even bother in the first place. Getting yelled at for not knowing the 1,472nd mechanic of this raid...I don't feel like this game is for the casual player at all. Either you're a worthless or know everything.

[@Snebzor]

They didn't get yelled at. I politely told them the requirements and that what they did was impolite and told them to do 1 mechanic and carried them through all the raids. They didnt do the mechanic and we won anyway. To be clear, I am not mad that they didn't know something. I would have taught them on the fly if I knew. I'm mildly annoyed that they lied to me, because it's disrespectful to the 9 other people in the group and also doesn't help them learn and grow.

[@ChocoTacoMan]

@@Snebzor Fair enough, I retract the "yelled at" part. You did say you let it slide. But, honestly, this just confirms my hesitancy to join a group. There don't seem to be many learning options and the others are super-vets who expect you to know every mechanic. I understand that the person in your story was certainly wrong for not communicating, but this just makes me not want to joins raids/groups more because I don't have the time to memorize all of them. Like others have commented, the expectation of groups is what deters non-hardcore players.

[@Snebzor]

​@@ChocoTacoMan If this same person had joined the group and said, "Hey, actually pretty new to raids and know you're asking for experience, but could you give me a shot? I'd like to learn." I would have said, "Of course! Can you hop in discord? It would be easier to explain things as we go." At worst I would have said, "Actually, we have a goal to go for a record time here so this might not be the best time, but I'm training a bit later, wanna join?" If you are honest, people will respect you. If you are not, they won't respect you. You don't need to memorize all the mechanics, you just need to be honest. My personal expectation is that people will at minimum respect what's being asked and communicate. Then, put in a little effort. Would it surprise you to know that among raiders I'm actually not even that good? I don't really get invited to "competitive" things and I'm certainly not a first choice for a hardcore prog group upon a new release. I'm just someone people trust because I communicate, I'm honest, and I do my best. I did 3 training raids in the last 3-4 days and there are 3-5 events in my discord for NA / EU training raids right now. There are also ~100 raid teams across NA / EU that all start as progression groups in my guild. There are opportunities, you just have to seek them out. Guild Wars 2 is weird in this way -- it doesn't really happen in game, because the tools in game aren't very good. Every time a player has come to me wanting to start a group for prog or to learn, we make it happen (unless literally impossible because of timezones)

[@MrCarlWax]

I got back into the game and you've inspired me to just say "fuck it, let's go" and just make a group for a wing.

[@ferdinandoarmeni6328]

Im going to make a group right now. You've inspired me to be a better gamer and human in general.

[@ferdinandoarmeni6328]

just did my first raid, vale gaurdian. Damn easy.

[@Jakerunio]

The worst part to me when players say "I can't do this, I am bad" or similar is that when you push back and tell them that they can do it and that the content isn't scary, they push back. Players insist that they cannot do things, and sometimes they will call you ableist for encouraging them. It is so disheartening as someone who just wants to help get players into the content.

[@Velakor9150]

the reason I haven't gotten into raiding is because of elitests. Tried joining a few groups in the past, and while I had watched videos and knew the mechanics from it but hadn't actually played the boss fight before the leaders and elitests didn't like that. I'd do the mechanics fine majority of the time, maybe one or two small mess ups but nothing serious. But because we wipe a few times I'm the new one so it must be my fault. I got full ascended and optimized gear, know my rotation and how to pump dps out but simply just because I have got like 2 raid boss kills every both being vale guardian, I'm the issue and I must leave. If there wasn't so much elitist I'd be down to do it but it feels very hard to get into without getting a headache from elitests.

[@sealboy1211]

I just love that I came into gw2 on steam launch thinking I could not fit a full on deep mmo with all its annoyances and triumphs and time commitments in my life. And that’s exactly what I have now and it fits beautifully.

[@doom8294]

Exactly what Sneb said. Effort, Desire to learn and Communications is what is required if you want to raid. If you WANT to LEARN raids, it's not that difficult, but it requires EFFORT. Often players either do not want to learn, they just want to get through it, OR they want to learn but don't want to put in the effort. if you're in either camp, you need to be able to communicate. If you just want to listen and type if asked a question, great. If you want to participate in voice, even better. But saying nothing when asked repeatly, politely, is very aggravating.

[@F16_viper_pilot]

Or, in some cases, they don’t have enough knowledge to even know what questions to ask. It’s easy for experienced players to think an inexperienced person isn’t trying, but they honestly may truly not know where to start. They’re hoping to learn by watching and trying to put the pieces together.

[@skunk_992]

My only similar experience to this would be back in GW1, getting into UWsc. Speed clear was the most accessible way to complete the Underwold. Experienced groups required "kp" in the form of Ghastly Summoning Stones, dropped from the end chest, and any individual not knowing what to do the entire time could cause a party wipe. Highly specific builds and tactics were required. We learned by reading vague descriptions, watching videos with no commentary, and practicing over and over again. Eventually, we were able to modify the team comp and take several new players while teaching the clear. There was no expectation to get an experienced pug to teach the content. Either you figure it out on your own or find a training guild.

[@derpzone7425]

raids are easy, the problem is finding a group as a new player.

[@linkazzatore]

1: open raid lfg 2: click advertise group 3: write w1 all welcome bring boons hardcore entry trial right? who would ever come up with making their own group idea

[@willdeit6057]

At 72 years of age I love to play GW2 I can't keep up with the rapid play required for Team events which is a shame but I accept that so don't play them.

[@Borando96]

My 2 cents to this as a vet with decent raid experience is, that the LFG menu/system sucks and annoyingly hard to coordinate and secondly, PUGs forget, that their main priority should be just a normal kill, not a speedrun. After 100, maybe 200 max LI there is no noteworthy metric/threshold to measure realistically "skill" anymore (which on its own is questionable anyway IMO, but I guess helps at the start) and you probably sit longer in the LFG waiting for ppl to join than to get a normal raiding player with "only" 100 LI and have a normal kill.

[@hutternen]

Commander tag being 100g was the biggest hurdle to making my own groups tbh. I didn't have 100g to spare.

[@chobdawg]

Isn't it 300g?

[@hutternen]

@@chobdawg probably, have not had the time to play in a while. Point still stands, I didn't have 300 either ^^

[@BigBroccoli_]

10:28- what holds people back from making their own raid group is because they have no idea what they’re doing and paired up with 9 other people who also have no idea what to do it will take hours just for there to be no progress at all

[@l-chan3347]

Thats because people often aren't willing to invest time in any guides...

[@boyshark123]

I can't raid solo :(

[@linkazzatore]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game

[@MightyTeapot]

What's interesting is that you kinda can, you don't have to be social in order to raid - you just need to communicate. There are a whole bunch of players who blast out pug groups without joining guilds/communities.

[@sumpwa]

Just pretend the other group members are AI.

[@trigguerrier1308]

Be the change you want to see. Is the motto I try to take in gw2.

[@adarg2]

Absolutely

[@sumpwa]

People are definitely a lot more capable than what they give themselves credit for. I did KO a month or so ago for my turtle in a completely scuffed group. One healer, no defined roles, no real explanation beforehand. It took several attempts but EVENTUALLY we got it. I also recently got a commander tag and I am somewhat convinced overall that people just need clear guidance and leadership to be able to succeed, and sadly there isn't a lot of that to go around these days.

[@lolwater777]

KO for turtle is a strike though not a raid

[@deeps6979]

They're not scared of the game. The community tricked itself into thinking raids are hard. You're part of that. But now you're trying to walk that back after insulting everyone? So now there's a niche, impatient, whinging subcommunity begging for more support, and still complaining when they don't get exactly what they want, in case you haven't figured out the real problem yet.

[@Snebzor]

You're so right, I am the problem for telling people that they can do raids and hosting groups where people don't have to worry about failing and can progress through the content. Can you direct me to any of your resources for help with raids? I'll start sending people there instead.

[@Stinger05]

I have troubles getting into raids because The only training runs that my guilds run are in the mornings (for me) so I can only do them on saturdays and usually the saturday runs fill real fast or don’t exist at all

[@FlowerBot]

My guild runs training, its a couple of experienced people who can take only 7-8 at a time, one session a day, and when there's more than that who want to go, and then the trainers fudge around with the starting time its too unreliable to bother.

[@ИринаА-п6д]

Long time I was afraid of t4 fractals, many MONTHS evaded it. But resently joined a group of ppl progressing from 80 to 100, all of us first time in t4, with our own speed cleared all with no big problems. Even did Observatory with only 4 members. So yes, russian proverb: "eyes are afraid, but hands do the job done"

[@TBaggerofTBaggers]

Fractals are already intimidating enough. The content feels easy but I always find “elites” in groups that make life unpleasant on someone. I don’t enjoy reading people argue over silly stuff. I’ve always felt if the boss does we are all good but so many want perfection.

[@spicy_gouba272]

Just look at Preach, making a group with players that have mostly no idea in raids and clearing them.

[@Seb7an]

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡 streamer privilege

[@johnmerritt5351]

This is my number one probleme when i try to make learning group for anything CM or raids related, experienced people want smooth clear ( and they should no problem here ) but inexperienced player wont join because they either want a carry and not a real learning group or they're afraid to do too bad with mechanics. Most people will say "no experienced player/teacher/carry, i'm out" Progression with a full group of similar knowledge of the encounter is so much more fun than a fully guided group imho

[@leftwardglobe1643]

I mean, it's not required that you, the experienced player, carry people. But it is in your best interests to teach them in small numbers and create a welcoming environment for yhem to enjoy themselves. That lets more people get a foot in the door to raids, it makes the experience fun, and it means that there will be less helpless pugs out there trying to get into top tier groups. If you just kick them because they're inexperienced they're going to be discouraged from trying raids, they're going to push that attitude forward in future, and it's going to hurt your personal reputation as well. Always ask as the first question, even if the post was for experienced players "hey, so does everyone know the fight" or "have we all done this before?" It's a good ready check and it lets you figure out who knows what ahead of time. If someone's new, be patient, be polite, be welcoming, and try to start a dialogue. No reason to be hostile. And a lot of dedicated training groups are too pug heavy to realistically work as a good introductory experience. At least a third of the team should know what's up ao that you can get through encounters together and make progress while teaching. Otherwise it just turns into a multi hour slog on the same boss for most people. Which ain't fun unless that's what you're looking for out the gate. I've not really done raiding in GW2, but I have tons of experience in other MMOs, and this holds true in all of them. Be kind to one another and you'll make a much better environment for people of all skill levels.

[@Identificador757]

I can't get into raids or strikes CMS because all always are asking for kp.

[@Snebzor]

This happened to me. I ended up making my own groups and slogging through it.

[@linkazzatore]

and how do you think people got their kps? magically appeared in their inventory or maybe they just made a group with others that haven't done it and played the game? sounds like you're just way too lazy to organize anything by yourself instead and making excuses because of it

[@DrZaius3141]

The problem is that people diverge massively: There are those that suck but think they are the best (see: beginning of the video) while there are also those that are among the best but think they suck. The reason why these groups are so large is because if you think you're awesome, you won't work on getting better and vice versa. And the people that do hold themselves to high standards would be great leaders but they need some extra nudging towards it - and in an MMORPG it's always brutally hard, because there is so much to learn and quite often no chance to learn it in game. And the big problem with leading a raid is that there is a responsibility there. If you don't lead it well, you will rob 9 other people of their time - at least that's how it will feel to you. What's more is that it's difficult to grow a new crop of leaders, because they first need to get all geared up (which admittedly takes less time than in other games) need to learn their own build well enough and only then can start thinking about leading, because there's little benefit to leading when you sandbag the team with your individual performance (at least in your own mind).

[@John-qo1kh]

I love the topic, good thing there is a pug training group, and joined it while listening to you guys and we cleared w1

[@revolverdragon4958]

We know we can do stuff. I play since october of 2012. 10'000hours. Play all spec. full legendary stuff except the sec ring (the raid one). HT every week since HoT release. same for OLC. did some CM. god of fractals title. but for a lot of ppl I am monkey that can only spam 1 cause I dont have 250 LI or KP. And cause of that I will never be able find squad to try raid or HT/OLC CM.

[@katharinepearson8150]

No, you will be able to do it. Do not say never. Last year I joined a training guild that did only training for raids, we were like maybe 20 people starting out (now, year later with so many people, there are fractals, strikes, wvw dungeons). I was soo bad, everything was so overwhelming and it was my first group content I ever did lol. Now I got my legendary armor collection from learning there and joined static group also all from people there, got my legendary armor. Learning now PoF strikes. And you know what, I just progressed to T2 fractals lol, did strikes maybe only a few times and also with people from this guild. I am still scared of joining random people for fractals. Raids are so much fun. Find your people if you are not able to pug. There are plenty of places to learn to raid. Snab also has this amazing place where you can join static groups, on EU and NA. Just do it!!!

[@HandyMattCreations]

What about for all of those people who want to have the most difficult builds to be different? That would be a good video.

[@sedalf]

I know, this Videoupload is 6 days old, but I wanna write my experience from 2 days ago in raid Wing 5. Always everybody told me, W5 it's one of the hardest Raids from all the Wings and you need to be experienced and have done once with your Guild or so. Know mechanics.... I just read the Mechanics on the Internet and never was in there. I learned by doing and trying. Lots of Players left and other entered. Some with more motivation to finish it other less. Once we got a perfect grp. we done that Raid with fun but with big effort. I was SecondTank HS with QHFB, I healed the Grp on the Way up, then I changed to DPS Ranger. I have done the whole Raid for the first time. The Commander always gave me some advice. And we made a party after killing dhuum. And know that... nobody asked me if I have done that Raid before and it was quite more fun to do it! Give them new Ppl the chance

[@pierce_grossman]

That student story from Sneb was awesome.

[@bokan800]

Biggest thing that turns me off to raids is that it has no easy introduction to it. It's this thing that presents itself as "Hard" content. That itself is a big gate. Strikes to me before was on the same page BUT the way they did EoD Strikes made it easier to get into strikes.

[@ycl260779]

The 2 of you have already mentioned this multiple times, but I'll just mention it again: I don't know WHY in gw2 everyone expects the commander to do everything for the content - waymarks, sorting boons/roles, organization, etc etc. I've raided savage/ultimate in FF14: people there don't expect the leader to do ALL the heavy lifting, especially in prog, but even in clears, the leader can always put a message in the party finder that he doesn't have the macro/waymark positions and someone will join with it usually. Now granted, FF14 is so rigid in its roles (2 tank 2 healer 4 dps) and every class has a fixed role, so that is partly why that part of the work isn't required by the leader unlike in gw2, but still its way less of a headache making a group in that game than in gw2 because there is less responsibility put onto the leader compared to what a commander is expected to do in gw2. And also because in the FF14 party finder you can lock out players who never cleared via an option in the party finder (Duty complete) so you don't get people who never cleared. Still doesn't stop people who were carried though an encounter from joining though, since its one clear only.

[@Shadaaala]

I get where you coming from but the amount of anxiety that comes with MAKING a group shouldn’t be underestimated. Just because it’s a no problem for you doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone. Just thinking about tagging up in any form of content makes me so uncomfortable that I’d rather close the game then do it. It’s like saying that everyone can sing in a stadium with 80000 people you just need to practice. Yeah, not everyone can do that I really like your content but the whole video just proves why so many people think raiding is toxic. I’m a nurse for people with special needs, so many people say they could never do this work. Yeah some people aren’t meant to be. You speak from your standpoint and when you think about making a group you can’t grasp the idea that this could come with a real physical uncomfortable feeling and anxiety but it does. It’s just hard for a streamer that is on camera to understand

[@MightyTeapot]

It's fascinating reading comments like this, because they always assume I've always been this way, and I've never had any type of social anxiety or self doubt, that I've always been this unassailable monolith of perfect mental invulnerability. It also of course makes the assumption that I don't have anxieties right now. My point here, is that confident people aren't immune to anxiety - they process their emotions and overcome anxiety. Being brave isn't the absence of fear, it's acting despite your fear. There have been times in my life where I replied to every single communication with a one word answer or nothing at all, and now I can handle being live in front of 20000 people no problem, or giving a speech in front of hundreds of people - but it wasn't always like that, it was a skill I developed and it certainly isn't always easy. I'm here to tell people how to get stuff done, and to encourage people to try new things and challenge themselves, that is the essence of my channel, because that is the essence of my worldview. Cheers.

[@arcticnightwolf]

i do like 5k dps, i'm pretty sure i do not have what it takes to raid or even just to do fractal :D

[@YungPixel]

if you bring some boon giving abilities with you youll be fine while you improve on that on all fractals up to t4 where people expect a quick clear

[@johnxina2601]

If you do 5k dps its not your skill thats an issue its your build some builds can do 15k dps just pressing 1

[@benbeckman2377]

If the barrier isn't so high, why the elitist doing strike mission with 250li requirement? ON NORMAL MODE?!🤡 If NM strike have barrier this high, imagine the standard required by these people on raid pug. Sometimes it's the player that becomes barrier, not the raid itself. It's the prejudice of newbies player from the veteran that often kills the excitement to learn. For example I did IBS5 - DS - AH and on AH the commander decided to do CM while I afk, then some new people come in because some left after DS. When the strike started, I didn't know it's CM but I've seen some of AH CM guide videos on youtube. I got the bomb mechanic and completely panicking because I forgot the bomb part and killed everyone. With that one mistake, all the new squad member that entered on AH strike got mad and blamed me. I said sorry because it's my first time and didn't know it was CM, then one of the new guy said "then leave, stop wasting people time. go to training groups". Then I ask them to teach me, point me out on the bomb mechanic and no one answering then people keep leaving. The other problem is, I rarely find CM strike on training LFG.

[@delvaarg]

beautiful story from sneb

[@fullmetalathlete]

I know its not raiding, but stuff like what happened in Sneb's story happens all the time in pvp...the other night i got kinda stuck in a rotation where i got grouped with a certain player that would quit on the team and go afk within the first minute of the game if we lost the opening team fight. 4 or 5 times in a row i got grouped with this guy and he afk'd on every single match, thus leaving us in a 4v5 multiple times in a row...ive never been so frustrated in ranked pvp as being perpetually matched with someone who had no desire to even make an honest effort in a match if we didn't just steamroll the other team. Reporting an idle player does nothing.

[@Seb7an]

If raiding is so easy the disgutsing gatekeeping in this game doesn't make sense at all.

[@MightyTeapot]

Extremely experienced players not wanting to play with people who have never completed content before is not gatekeeping. In the same way it's not gatekeeping for a platinum ranked player to not want to play with bronze players. The only thing gatekeeping you is yourself.

[@johnbennett1729]

@@MightyTeapotor those experienced players can teach others the content.

[@Repede98]

This is definitely a Gw2 issue. The LFG tab is essentially an outdated global shout chat that demands someone be a leader for content they don't know. Most players don't like to assume all the responsibilities of leading a group through any content they're not super well versed in. Especially if it's older content. IMO, players need the tools to push them towards that first step.FFXIV and WoW have better recruiting/party systems that help with alleviating some of the pressures of leading. Imo they should revamp the LFG system. Im a returning player that's been playing FFXIV for a while. From my experience there I agree that people should just make a learning group and go for it. Worst case scenario is people leave or yell on the Internet. You just make a new party and life goes on.

[@Unlock3dWish]

If i wanted to start training group what raid do i put in the party thingy? Like what's the easiest one first lol? 🤓

[@drbuni]

It's not fear, it's not wanting to have neckbeards breathing down your neck because you decided to have fun with a weapon or build that you like, instead of playing the samey garbage meta build everyone else plays. The tendency of minmaxing everything and speedrunning everything is tiring.

[@Eragon-wv5td]

I got a few points to make regarding the topic about getting a character raid ready in under 15h "using gear giving by booster": First of all: To be that quick you will need a substantial game knowledge like to know which masteries to level first (gliding, pact commander) and which to first ignore (mushrooms, legy crafting, most mounts), recocnising the need/ power of having not only a power dps but also a condi and playing only the nessesary story episodes to get gold, mastery points and access to some stuff. Second and to me most important: I am not a fan of just stating that the booster gear (full cele, 1532 toughness) is perfectly fine to start raids. First of all, while condi builds and most support builds can perfectly use this gear setup for power thats not correct. If you dont crit often then you gonna loose a ton of dps (with normal berserker ferocity bringing the crit dmg to around 1.5-1.7 x non crit) and your dps isnt mostly reliable across fights at all (because of crit rng). This would make your performance hard to judge for the player themselfes and the group leader trying to identify the sources of possible dps problems on fights like gorse. Furthermore if i lead training groups in w1 (for example) and someone joins with 1532 toughness i expect this person to tank because espeacially new player wanting to practice tanking dont have the possibility to just change stats using their legendary armor/trinkets to get higher than someone joining on full cele. I would rather recommending using a few cele pieces (like full armor, or full trinkets) for a bit more health, more hybrid-style build but also using other exotic pieces with some berserker or assassins (for power) mixed in to get the much needed crit chance and make life much easier for players with only few legendary pieces planing on tanking. Otherwise in my mind the full-cele-guy has to tank vale guardian and gorse regardless of his role except the planned tank is able (and willing) to beat fucking 1532 toughness which is much more than ever needed in w1 to tank.

[@jamesklee]

18:46. It truly is systemic. The problem (of the divide between so-called "elitists" and non-"elitists") runs very deep in GW2. No other comparable game I can think of seems so afraid of hard-checking players from time to time. They go through so much of the game never being told 'no' in any fashion, and thus find it rude for fellow players to start telling them "no, I don't want to waste my time on you." For almost every other comparable game I can think of, the game itself is usually quite willing to give players a hard "no" if they've failed to meet certain expectations. Players don't even have to tell each other "you're really not the groupmate we're looking for" - the game itself will make it clear to players whether or not they're up to snuff. GW2 is like the one lazy parent that never tells their child no, leaving the other parent to be the bad guy all the time.

[@raquetdude]

0:05 curious but wonder if peoples setups (laptop, PC build impact this) cause given the nature of GW2 do suspect that a LOT of players are on laptops or old gear.

[@Godooable]

I'm on a laptop, but I get over 100 fps with medium graphics settings, and 70ish fps with nearly all settings maxed. Shadows off really helps

[@WaterYaDune]

Yep that’s my case, not even bothering to attempt raids until I upgrade because I’ve crashed multiple times on fractals and world bosses, and my slow ass laptop takes like 3-4 minutes just to load up the game again, not even including the 1-2 minute map loading times. Plus I can’t even do proper rotations in most group content because of the lag, there’s just no point

[@Keinish79]

I think ping and distance can have a bigger impact, for example when you play from South America on wi-fi. The game is old enough that most PCs can handle it on lower settings.

[@Snebzor]

This absolutely has a huge impact.

[@utmastuh]

A lot of fallacies in these arguments. I was a tester on the game and put 2500 hours into vanilla. I knew the game inside and out and always had competent experienced people to play with in all activities. Coming back after almost 10 years off i dont know the metas or new content. I've been kicked from multiple groups for being inexperienced or not having THE meta build for my profession. So i occasionally check LFG for a team looking for all or looking to teach. Otherwise i stick to open world content because of the gatekeeper mentality. Also a teammate isnt always a leader or the best player on the team. Dunno why you either have to be a top contributor or a spectator. There's roles to fill in between

[@manictiger]

The meta builds are garbage anyway, lol. All my closest friends have stuff that strays far away from those builds, and they sweep the floor (admittedly, mostly sPvP). Point is, as long as whatever avante-garde thing you're doing even remotely respects how your class plays, skill is more important than "serkers everything serkers, durr hurr".

[@plat6667]

Never forget Moa the Aizza Slayer

[@quick2bud]

19:25 literally happened twice this week. 35 ppl in Chak Garent main map que, but nobody willing to tag up and do events. Event fails with over 40 ppl on map because more than half of them just afking and waiting for join main map.

[@hardbrocklife]

Laziness. Its laziness masquerading as a lack of self awareness.

[@pixiemillie4326]

I would 100% make my own group for raid training. Tho I believe I need a commander tag to start the fight just like strikes. I'm actually a very experienced Strike player but yea I am scared to raid and I cant make my own training group because I dont own a commander tag. Im sure people will tell me to just get a commander tag but there's so many ways gold get spent in this game and I'm far gone into crafting my first legendary so im dry!

[@pixiemillie4326]

@@RobGale but can you start the fight without a tag?

[@bdhdr4226]

I want to raid, but we only have 3 people. I would love to learn and progress naturally with a static as opposed to pugging/being told how everything works. Do any strikes/raids scale so 3-5 people is doable?

[@sharkstaint1373]

just go on raid training tab , type what bosses or which wing , and go explain to people by checking a guide from teapot or muk , and try , you'll overcome the stress holding you back from doing stuff , same happened with me on cm fractals , i made a training group , ran it multiple times , understood what i should do better and what not , and i can now make cm groups and get my daily cm , dont think of people as monsters , they are legit the same as you , probably scared to make groups also , but once u get in , then its over.

[@bdhdr4226]

@@sharkstaint1373 I'm not afraid to make a group, I just want to progress blind with friends for fun. Problem is we don't have 10 people. I highly doubt blind progress with pugs would go well, but after I've learned on my own I have no problem pugging and making groups.

[@Snebzor]

@@bdhdr4226 Blind progression is extremely uncommon, since raids have been out for years and years and are mostly "solved".

[@johnmerritt5351]

Hey man, are you playing on EU ? We are a group of 3 looking to do a full progression static/group too. Maybe we can manage something

[@bdhdr4226]

@@johnmerritt5351 I'm NA sadly but thanks! And good luck :)

[@nd6886]

Makes group. "This CMDR doesn't know what they're doing". Group disbands.

[@l-chan3347]

Make it clear that it's a training... If you ask experience players when you're not experienced even as commander ofc people will leave

[@nd6886]

@@l-chan3347 Lol then no one joins.

[@aaron6112]

I think you may be slightly out of touch with this. I have raided many many times in wow and FF and SWTOR. It is incredibly frustrating sitting in a group pull after pull where people don't do basic mechanics with any level of competency

[@Snebzor]

Yes, it is very frustrating. How am I out of touch with that?

[@aaron6112]

@@Snebzor Apologies Snebzor, I meant Teapot due to him being the owner of the video when I said you. There were comments made about: you can just make a group, learn the fights yourself and just do it, you shouldn't want to be around experienced players when you have none yourself. Just because someone doesn't have GW2 raiding experience doesn't mean they don't have MMO raising experience. On an individual level, a player may be able to fully prepare themselves for a new raid but finding 10 random players (or slightly less because you are right some things can be brute forced) is an arduous experience that takes too long to bother trying for many people. Not everyone has a raiding group that does a sub 2 hour clear of all raids or clears the new challenge modes in one shot as soon as they come out. I know you pug more and I'd love to hear if your experiences differ in the training LFG section.

[@Snebzor]

@@aaron6112 I never use the training LFG section, because there aren't any transparency tools to support new players. For example, I can't check players' gear, runes, sigils, or build without constantly getting them to ping, but even that doesn't show everything. I train everything via my discord and the trainings are always super full. The whole premise behind my guild was making it easier to find 9 other people to prog with, because the systems in the game to do so are very poor. You can make a group and do it, but most choose not to. Relying on experienced players is a poor idea, because there may not always be experienced players around. In short, it's not easy, but it's kind of the only option. You have to be willing to try and throw yourself in there or join discords even if the outcomes won't always be perfect. The LFG needs tuning, that's for sure.

[@R.senals_Arsenal]

7:18 The barrier to an elite class is actually no longer requiring any HP train at all if you have all 3 expansions. This kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqfYl56Eiq-Jq9E will show anyone how to get enough HP for an Elite w/out using a single attack skill.

[@willdeit6057]

Tell them why you are kicking them and also explain that they need to join training groups.

[@yvesgingras1475]

My 2 toxic elitist favorite gamers :3

[@phnty]

Regular Raids are easy honestly just learn what the mechanics are, It's so stupid how much ppl gatekeep raids... I understand not all ppl that play this game are HC gamers but still like...ugh

[@CuriouslyCurious8Bit]

That last story by Sneb is very wholesome and honestly quite inspiring. Sneb, you are cute and I like you

[@zacktory161]

I just started raiding with my guild, its so much fun and i love it, fck off fractals i am a raider now.

[@seafighter4]

34:00 Why are people saying they are bad, they need an easy build? I guess because in open world, you are never confronted with how suboptimal you play. In Open World, doing 5k dps is more dps than most people will achieve. And even if the collective lack of damage or skill causes an event to fail, you'll never know that you had a significant part in that failure. And then you enter any instanced content and suddenly you are expected to deal 20k+ dps. Most people don't even realize where they are unoptimized. They just think that they play to the best of their abilities, so the people that deal four times as much damage must be four times as good as them.

[@manictiger]

My vindi rotations are pretty bad, and I'm using mostly dragon's gear, because, idk, reasons. 12.5k dps if I don't even switch my legends. The class literally snaps to target and has a bunch of stamina recharge and evade skills (dual swords are crazy). Hard to get more mindless than that, lol. Anet should make the Special Forces Training Ground more obvious to new players. Idk, add a pop-up that lets them know it exists. There's runes, sigils, etc. that also affect builds, ofc. New players probably don't really understand how that works either, because it's information overload to them.

[@tomwillymyrvang2806]

I dont think raids or strikes are hard , only unfunn

[@n1cemaiden879]

Sneb's story had me in tears, was so powerful! I wish I had had a teacher like him back in school.. 10/10 Snebtime!

[@apatik279]

On the point of not being good enough or looking for an easy build is more due to not really understanding the class and skills. I struggled with that initially. I would die often and feel like I was holding my team back so I would refrain from playing in groups. Recently, with the Hardstuck community build pages rotation breakdowns and explainations, I feel like I have a better understanding of what I am doing and what my goal is during gameplay. Yes I may still go down, but I can find what I messed up on and target that more directly than before. There are still some classes that intimidate me, but I have grown to really enjoy playing guardian, warrior, Necro, engi and ranger. I am still working on gaining a better understanding of the rest.

[@SeeHang]

team work should be the number one priority with every player in gw2. the problem isnt that people are experienced and people are not. the problem is that explaining things to people takes a lot of time and energy therefore everyone plays the same metas, raids, strikes, wvw and pvp differently. gw2 likely does not have the same consistency problem as other games in this way with how people contribute to the events per game mode. the game developers have always made the responsibility of the game's success on how players conduct themselves with other players. if they didnt we'd be back to gw1 and how we had npc companions that we could use on the field to tank, heal, dps. the big problem with the gw2 community is that people are on different levels of game experience. most people arent trying to master the simplest things that ultimately become advanced skills. Teapot covered this in a previous video explaining the importance of how to maneuver your character in general and how those skills are compounded in later events in later masteries and later expansions. more inexperienced players should really focus on story mode as terrible as it can be in the base game because those lessons learned are translated into different game modes like pvp and wvw even if its just based on how to use a treb or a cata or an arrow cart. how dodging is something everyone struggles with. gw2 is very open in it's world allowing players to skip whatever disinterests them and thats part of the problem because they forget they need the basics and struggle up to the point where now they feel awkward and have to map chat to avoid shame and guilt in asking players face to face for assistance. I think the biggest tell for inexperienced players is that of players who only have 1 or 2 characters that have reached level 80, not played at least 10 games of pvp, not played wvw for at least 40 hours or have solo-ed eliete mobs equal to the ambush oni mobs in Gyala Delve. i'm of the mindset that 90% of players are inexperienced in gw2. I believe i sit in the 70% in which I'm still missing a lot of knowledge base but can typically manage on my own but every now and then something stumps me and i need a wiki or someone to push me in the right direction. I've done the Gyala Delve Meta 2 times a day since it has come out and have led meta runs including secret chests for the Playing with Infants achievement and struggle to run it with complete compentency because players dont read chats, players get distracted, players want to play their own way, players troll but mostly its because they dont know how to contribute in events until they are fully explained with little to no errors. the fact that I'm double-ing or tripple-ing the repeat messages of 'if you dont have skimmer, dont have swim speed infusion to use glowing plants at the bottom of the tunnel to heal because the water in the tunnel is poision and that its too hard to res players in the tunnel' should surprise you that people are still dying in the water poision tunnel on the way to the other side to fight the last champion / mushroom. Players will do what they do no matter how much you try to help them even if it means that you have to be the bad guy and not res them when they should just wp back to self res and run back to help kill a champ or mob.

[@F16_viper_pilot]

I think you guys in the video are very biased, due to the experience you have with the game at this point in time. For people just now trying to get into some of this content, like raids, they lack the experience to be effective and many are hoping to join an experienced group to learn the mechanics. Sure, ten years ago everyone was learning at the same time, then at some point people emerged that could and would assist others to create a larger pool of experienced people, but now there is a much wider gap between the experienced and inexperienced. The experienced people mostly just want to grind out the content, and the inexperienced flounder in pugs. As for people starting a group, it’s generally believed that the person starting the group is the leader and has some level of experience. Why would inexperienced people want to put themselves in that position? As for the example given about the one guy not responding to questions, I doubt they were lying. They probably weren’t even sure what you were asking and had no idea what the mechanics were to be effective. They even said it was their first time. I don’t think it’s right to presume the worst, as that just fosters unnecessary ill feelings and leaves a sour taste for new people.

[@crow_buddy]

I recently got into strikes/end-game content. Overall, I like it, but even Teapot died in this video to a one-hit kill fighting Soo-Won during the Dragon's End meta. Timestamp is around 30 minutes, 35 seconds if you want to see. Yes, I am brand new, but I could barely tell what Teapot did wrong (if anything). It looked like he was in Soo-Won's lethal wave zone, but apparently didn't dodge/evade it in time? Because Teapot and a ton of other players died while standing behind a pillar which appeared to be safe. Is that not safe? I guess not. I ask because I did really well during my first time in this meta, except the one-hit kill mechanic. Not a fan of the one-hit kills, because it feels like it cheapens a lot of the depth/complexity of the game. Maybe I'll get used to it with more experience, but as a new player, it can get frustrating quick. Thankfully it's easy to respawn on this meta, so that's good.

[@MightyTeapot]

Very late reply, but that is a bug with the meta event that's been in since launch.

[@SeitziXD]

This is a message to spread! loved the vid

[@flik221]

This was a good listen..I still wish there was an rss feed so I could listen in podcast format though

[@Snebzor]

Surprised you're not flaming us out again.

[@mattbrowning8624]

I feel like people do the content for the rewards and as most of GW2 is "casual" players, they don't want to feel like their time is wasted. With raids and harder content, part of the experience is failing and learning from it. However, those casual players just want to get the rewards (like legendaries from raids) and be done with it. That's why the expect to be carried or at least find a group where they can perform bottom tier just like they can in open world. In open world, you can get away with it. As long as the group succeeds, it doesn't matter at all. In raids, some groups will call you out if you're half the DPS of everyone else as an example. And those same casual players, don't want to bother making a group because that means they have to learn the roles and mechanics instead of getting "carried" through the content. The people that complain about the "just make a group" solution are those same players that would complain when someone calls them out for underperforming or get mad if the group leader set requirements for joining and they didn't meet them. Some people just want the rewards without putting in the actual work, but again that's a systemic issue within the game since open world (which is what a bulk of GW2 content is) is like that, so it sets the player expectation.

[@tatatorterra]

tbh timewise the biggest issue with gw2 raids is that they have a lot of trash between bosses, if it was like ffxiv where barely have any trash at all if any (most fights you enter and respawn direct at the boss after a wipe), it would be way more easier for people try content blind or do practice groups for certain mechanics/phases

[@mattbrowning8624]

@@tatatorterra nah it goes way beyond that. If a little trash is stopping someone, that’s their own problem. This goes to people not even attempting to create groups or expect people to do it for them. I hardly ever hear complaints on trash in raids

[@deeps6979]

Ahahaha, nothing worse than someone who's done it 10+ times whining about how "I just want my clear". Entitled nonsense. Those people just want to be carried and not do the work.

[@mattbrowning8624]

@@deeps6979 exactly, and that’s why I like “static” groups that aren’t pug runs just together for one single run

[@TheKrepen]

Im in a guild that is completely trash and its a sad bunch of dudes indeed

[@Jyotishjyo]

My main issue with raids is to decide what role i should play and what class i need to use 😅, like if i pick condi necro they ask if i can go power and i don't have power and now I feel awkward, and next i wanted to go as a healer then people are like what kind of healer tanky healer , healer healer etc etc and then I'm lost again 😞

[@Eragon-wv5td]

It is rather simple most of the time: Most of the time (with a few exceptions like handkite or such) the only one in squad who has any toughness higher than 1000 is the tank. Since almost a year the tank is also the healer for his subgroup and has to atleast give alacrity OR Quickness to his subgroup plus much needed boons like protection, might, fury and regeneration. The other healer ("healer healer", but i never heard that term) needs to do the same thing except he doesnt tank. Pretty much every heal build can be used to tank, just replace some harrier pieces with givers or minstrel pieces so you are the one with the most toughness. Because every subgroup needs to have access to alacrity and quickness (both boons) the subgroups needs an offensive support providing the missing boon depending on which of the two main boos the healer gives (called "Quickness-dps" and "Alacrity-dps"). The other three places are filled with any dps class available. To conclude: If you prefer to play healer it is perfectly fine for a beginner to do so, maybe even better because you will have an easier time to get into groups than dps:) While it is advantageous to go for two healer builds one with quickness one with alac, i would recommend starting with one and getting comfortable with it because that makes it much easier to do certain mechanics and deal with unexpected situations which will always occur when starting new. Regarding the class i recommend using sides like snowcrows.com or hardstuck.gg where a wide variaty of heal builds are documented. If you enjoy playing engineer then try heal mechanist if you enjoy ranger try heal druid. The better you already know your class including weapon skills, important traits and support skills the easier it is for you to focus on the boss and its mechanics rather than how to play your build. After picking a build remember to practice it first to make sure that you are not activly thinking about your rotations to give boons or do dps. And especially try to avoid looking on your skill bar for too long! Your attention has to be primarily on the boss, not your Skills. It is not nessesary nor easier to learn your build at the practice golem but rather recommend using the build and its rotation in open world. If you are able to heal/give boons or pull reseonable dps during "dragons end" you will be most definitly be prepared to do the same job at raid bosses. You will still have to learn the mechanics and get comfortable with them but it is much easier when thats your focus instead of your rotation.

[@xeno1030]

I mean, I don't mind playing with pugs but if the new players are like ok we tried once but we died so now we don't want to play. If you can't carry us then we won't play and it's like this most of the times. That's why sometimes it gets really annoying.

[@iiSeaCoooooooow]

@12:25 This is the community created problem that plagues a lot of the new players. Let's face it, most people who pick up gw2 have already tried WoW. The casual groups will kill the entire raid at a difficulty that is trivial for a lot of players at a slower pace, and they can run the risk of not completing it. The community does not have the patience and attention span to wait around for X minutes more when they can easily jump ship to one of the many vetted groups. The issue for the trepidation in Gw2 is the lack of vetted experience for the wow jump ships. The players are conditioned to ignore the unvetted. The players are now themselves the unvetted ones. They know what they would do, so they wait for someone with an accepting hand. To top it off, Gw2 PvE has the hardest punishment of mechanical failure in the genre, while also having the single strongest survival combat tool of any in the dodge mechanic. The dodge mechanic is also so unique in its importance from second to second. It replaces the dynamic of "Tanking" and returns the constant burden of survival on the player. The new player is just going to die a lot in Gw2. A wow player dying in group content might as well come with a therapy brochure. You are getting kicked, noticed, told, ignored, flamed, belittled, but most importantly, hardly ever will you be helped and encouraged to get them next time. Often people claim a newer, less experienced player is doing a third of their potential damage. Add on top of it that they expect to die and become the point of blame and failure in the group and you have the perfect recipe for someone just going full hand-hold and accepting the coddling.

[@orack6355]

I don't take easy build cuz I'm bad, I do cuz I'm lazy ! :3 And yes, I had this discussion with many people, you can't said you can't do something if you never tried in a good setting :)

[@mangoman93]

Once again people need to learn the secret art of making their own group and setting expectations. Gatekeepers hate this one simple trick. It's just so suuuuuuper easy to get a group for anything you want to do, if you channel the elite group maker inside of you.

[@Seb7an]

🤡🤡🤡

[@kyley428]

This is why raid is toxic haha

[@manuelmusetti5026]

@Sneb: you assigned cannons to a guy that didn't even respond when you asked him? and what are you pissed off about, exactly? Also, omg how much you trying to be inclusive with that 'super-pro only' group.... Also, personally if you say something like that to me i would absolutely spread TRUE information about the toxicity of your raid, no matter if you kick me or not. I would do well worse if i could...

[@Snebzor]

I did about 6-7 hours of training the last 3 days and I did 1 "omega exp" group. One. Sometimes, I like to try and improve myself and play with players who are around my skill level. I think it's disrespectful to join a group that asks for experience when you do not have experience. I asked the player in question to do cannons multiple times. We got to cannons and they didn't do them. We still killed the boss because everyone else in the group respected the requirements. It's whatever. It doesn't really matter, but this should be an illustration of why people dislike using the LFG. People consistently disrespect each other. How many trainings have you done? If you think I'm not inclusive enough, then go be better than me.

[@frankmills1917]

You're calling out Sneb but not the inexperienced guy joining the experienced group? The guy just probably wants to be carried without putting any effort, and that, in my opinion, is the more toxic behavior.

[@linkazzatore]

1: Commander asks for experienced people 2: Inexperienced player doesn't read, listen, care and joins anyway 3: It's commander's fault for asking him to do mechanics ????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Exit your bubble and watch reality

[@dathancornwell349]

I have only been kicked from a raid once and it was 100% my fault. I was doing tempest dps (back in PoF when people didn't know it could do dps) we blasted wing 1 and i was all good as condi. Get to wing 2 and i think, i should swap to my power build. So i swap my build, but halfway through the fight realized i only swapped my gear and not my traits and my damage was sooo garbage i was kicked after sloth. This was a pug run and during the sloth fight i was just saying to myself i deserve to be kicked for greifing.

[@fenriskarvainen4031]

iam a main wvw player its cool i love but i want the legendary from raids for my char but its hard for me to get into raids when i go into a guild that do raids i cant spend time to anything else most guilds want taht you just have time for them and nothing else but i want to play when i want not when i must ... its hard and weird i know :P

[@michaelmay1317]

The guy talking about the “exams “ sounded like he’s about 25 years old. 🎉

[@p12ofesor]

Can someone teach me this game

[@MeMan5K]

wow!

[@jancuq2585]

I am nothing