Electrified VS Insulated Model Railroad Switches or Turnouts

[@ricktrinkle3060]

Kevin, Very well done! This has got to be one of the most complex issues model railroaders face and its one that affects them every time they run if they do not address it - especially with a switching layout like your planning. I have never seen a more thoughtful, organized, and easy to understand presentation of the topic- including all the parts and graphic labeling of electrical changes as you discuss them. Pinnacle of your videos! You just keep getting better and your videos keep getting more useful! This video is on my immediate go to list when I start wiring! Thanks,Rick TrinkleTrinkleTrains

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks Rick for the nice and thoughtful comment. Glad you found the video informative and useful. Looking forward to seeing some of your trains running again soon. Cheers, Kevin

[@WestOkieRailroadVideos]

As someone who is baffled by how electrical systems work (and especially when they don't work), this was very helpful. Thanks for the info, man!

[@Modeltrains]

You're welcome and thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear you found the information helpful. Cheers, Kevin

[@karhukivi]

This takes me back nearly 60 years - using little pieces of wire to connect the siding rails! Great explanation - thank you!

[@Modeltrains]

George, thank you for the nice compliment. Cheers, Kevin.

[@garygonska8504]

Best explanation I've seen so far on insulfrog vs electrofrog pros and cons.

[@Modeltrains]

Gary, thanks for the feedback and compliment. Cheers, Kevin

[@richardclowes6123]

Cheers for this video, very clear and precise. Helped me loads. Changed all my points over to electro-frog points as I have several 0-4-0 locos which were having problems at slow speed. Haven't bothered switching polarity through the frog. I just have an off/on switch to isolate sidings to fiddle yard, otherwise all trains in the yard start moving !!! No problems with shorting out ever. Look forward to more of your vids.

[@genegreen9613]

Good explanation, clear language, excellent illustrations. This is the first time I actually understood the various possibilities.

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you. Glad to hear you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@brandeevelez8288]

That was a great explanation of the differences between Peco's products. Perfect timing too!

[@Modeltrains]

Brandee, thanks for the feedback and compliment on the video. Cheers, Kevin

[@ppgwhereeverett4412]

Thank You !! For this video !! It saved me from giving up before I began. Electrical problems. You Explained it so I could understand. Thank You !

[@brucewoods9377]

That has got to be one of the best explanations ever.

[@Modeltrains]

Wow. Bruce, thank you very much for the really nice compliment. Cheers, Kevin

[@figodavide]

Thanks for this. Starting out on my first layout. This has been the best and clearest explanation of the point differences that I have come across.

[@Parax77]

Electro Frog Option 3: as with option 2 cut the jumpers between the closure rails and the frog, and then add a jumper wire from the closure rails to the outer rails. so the closures do not rely on the contact of the switch rails but are always powered. (they cannot short at the gap between the closure and frog because the wheels never run on that section when the frog is in the wrong polarity.)

[@flyboy2610]

Nice video, but you forgot to mention something. When you modify the Electrofrog point rails by snipping the little jumper wire, you electrically isolate the closure rails. On the Electrofrog, the closure rails depend upon the point rails for power. By snipping the jumper wires, the power source for the closure rails is removed, and the closure rails are now un-powered. The solution is to solder a small jumper wire from each stock rail to it's adjacent closure rail. This has to be done at the gap in the bottom of the ties. Doing this, the closure rails draw power from the adjacent stock rails, and are once again powered. Allan Gartner has a website "Wiring For DCC" which has a lot of useful info on track, turnouts, and other projects. Thank you taking the time to make this video. I found it quite helpful and informative! (Edited 1-13-19. I mis-typed something. Sorry for the inconvenience :? )

[@Modeltrains]

Actually the point rail does remain powered. When the point rail touches the stock rail it becomes powered. The jumper you mentioned is still a good idea and will prevent the point from becoming unpowered if paint, dirt, or something prevents the point from electrically contacting the stock rail. Glad you found the video informative. Cheers, Kevin

[@dalek-dan-1]

absolutely brilliant video, very clear, precise and detailed. cleared up everything I wasn't sure about. Thank you very much for making it and sharing it. I have watched several videos on this and this was by far the clearest and best presented.

[@nssherwoodsub]

I too use Peco insulfrog turnouts on my layout but I never really understood their electrical connections until this video. For your switching layout, I believe that electrofrog turnouts are the correct choice.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you liked this video. Cheers, Kevin.

[@bradleyplank4046]

Outstanding video! Much more clear than other videos or written instructions. Your graphics overlaying the track configurations really helped to visualize. Again, excellent!

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you for the feedback. Glad to hear you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@dannyholt105]

Ah, so now I see where I have been so confused. I didn't understand the difference between "power routing" and "non-power routing". Thanks for clearing that up for me Kevin! I may have to refer back to this video often. I hope the layout reconstruction is going well. Cheers, Dan

[@Modeltrains]

Dan, glad to hear you found the video helpful. The Joint Line layout is still the same, but the Pennsy switching layout is coming along nicely. Cheers, Kevin

[@moyroq4729]

I really like your video, I was able to fallow. I only started 6 month ago into the model train hobby.

[@nssherwoodsub]

That was a great explanation. I too use PECO insulfrog switches and I was using insulated rail joiners which you explained are not needed. So, with my latest switch installation, I stopped using the insulated rail joiners and it's working as expected which helps me a lot...Harold

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you for the nice compliment. I'm glad to hear that you found this video useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@rainman7992]

this is crazy...WOW...it's seem so simple from the books. oh so complicated...I never even knew this existed as a potential issue.

[@JacobKampLund]

This is a nice introduction to problems and solutions to turnouts.

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you for the feedback. Cheers, Kevin

[@SCWatches]

Thank you. 3rd video I have watched as could not understand why it was necessary or recommended to cut wires on new points. UK term points. Got it now.

[@InterCity134]

Excellent descriptions of the switch types in a clear manner.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the nice compliment. Cheers, Kevin

[@njsurf1973]

Thank you. I am new to the hobby, and this answers a whole lot of questions. I appreciate the visual aids! Excellent Video.

[@Modeltrains]

Mike, thank you for the feedback. Glad to hear you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@phil36310]

Hi, I build a new layout and used only PECO Insulfrog switches even running small tender loco's 2-4-0 (Fleischmann made) No problem at all and happy with it. But every switch has a feeder wire soldered to it with connection to both stock- and closure rail. Runs fine. Greetings and thanks for explaining & sharing.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the information. That's similar to how I wire all mine as well. Cheers, Kevin

[@l.rod2827]

Thank you for the informative video, I'm a newbie wanting to build my first layout and I'm trying to learn as much as possible before I begin purchasing tracks, switches, Locos and controllers. Very informative, gave me a better understanding of the switch technologies, purposes and best approach for wiring them.

[@Modeltrains]

You're very welcome. Cheers, Kevin.

[@jurgenschilke8999]

Thank you very much.Very clear explanation of the different options. Just helpful!

[@Gaz3801]

Just to confuse the issue, we call switches 'points' in Australia ! Great, simple video.

[@Modeltrains]

That's a great 'point'. Cheers, Kevin

[@thomream1888]

Hi Kevin - Thanks again for another educational video. Just when I think I've finally figured something out, you come along and show me the part I overlooked. With my visual-oriented learning style, your diagrams really helped me understand the points you made. You do a really nice job with not only the "this and this", but the "why it is this", which helps me understand in greater detail. Your videos are well-lit and in focus, you have a great speaking voice and understand about volume levels, you just make it easy to learn! Some KZbinrs have great info but they can't communicate to save themselves. Thank you for the effort you put into these lessons, to help us become better modelers. Big heap o' gratitude my friend! SPGhost

[@Modeltrains]

SP Ghost, thanks for the very nice compliments and feedback on my videos. Glad to hear you're finding them informative and useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@richard9984-e3z]

Thanks for a clear and succinct explanation. I am making a change to Peco O scale which only comes in electro frog format.

[@chronus1015]

My layout is new, a 17 by 18 ft garage N scale project. Iv'e found that the insulated turnouts work so well with little wiring but, using only PECO #6 and even a few #8 turnouts. But to control them I use model aircraft hardware and make them manual control. So dang reliable and fun to use. However, my 5 track staging yard uses Tortoise switch machines and Atlas turnouts but it is only here that they are used.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the information on your switch control. Glad the Peco switches and control mechanism are working out for you. Cheers, Kevin

[@tony270145]

The best video i have seen on this subject very easy to understand the difference between the two.

[@Modeltrains]

Tony, thanks for the nice compliment on my video. Cheers, Kevin

[@tony270145]

Thats ok Kevin i now fully understand , i am going to use insulfrogs as they will match my Kato turnouts , i run large american SD70S AND SD60S with long wheelbase .

[@aroostookrailfan]

Thanks for this. I have an N scale layout, DCC, and most of my switches are Peco insulfrog (power routing), but I'm wondering if I can use the few electrofrong switches I have in a stub-ended yard where there is no power fed beyond the switchpoints. Thanks.

[@gvet47]

I need to watch this more than once so I really understand. Seemed I got mixed on multiple possibilities being covered. Just to old to learn quickly I think.

[@Tipman2OOO]

Thank you. Best video explaining this subject!!!

[@leonsmoker9315]

Question, I have put together a switching line using Insulfrogs switches now entering the switches by way of wing rail side of the switch the locomotive will stop then start moving each an every time but I am now running locomotive entering the stock rail side of the switch and is no hesitation, Is there any suggestion on how to fix that problem

[@signman9328]

I'm using DC on my small switching layout and have soldered power feeders to every single section of track, but have unpowered frogs. I don't know if it's the age of my old Athern loco (35 years old or so) or something else, but it's speed seems to constantly change just enough to drive me crazy, depending on where on the track it is! I don't know if this is a function of the loco's age, or if it's because of un-powered frogs, but YOUR loco seems to go very smoothly and evenly through your un-powered turnout, even at slow speeds. I have hard-wired the electrical pickups, cleaned the wheels, motor pickups, cleaned and lubed it, cleaned track, but it just doesn't have a nice smooth, consistent, slow speed. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[@sparky107107]

super video. you explain that well enough that even I can understand it. thanks for taking the time to help others out in this great hobby.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the nice compliments on the video. Cheers, Kevin

[@Crookedriverandeasternrr]

Hi Kevin thanks for the explanation of the differences between the two. Just like Brandee said it couldn't have come at a better time. 👍

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear you found the information helpful and that the timing worked out well for you. Cheers, Kevin

[@rvnmedic1968]

Excellent video, clearly spoken, close-ups when needed and the graphics are great. I'll probably have to watch this again a few times to let the wiring sink into my 73 year old brain! One question: why do you use Code 83? I'm just getting back into the hobby and see a lot of Code 100. Cheers, Bob

[@Modeltrains]

Bob, thank you for the compliments and feedback on my video. I use code 83 track because it is closer to scale than code 100 track is (though even code 83 is over sized for most prototype rail). Most, if not all, engines and cars made in the last 20 years will run on code 83 track. Prior to that, some cars and engines had larger flanges that wouldn't run smoothly on code 83 track. In my opinion, if you're running newer cars and engines, code 83 track will perform just as well as code 100 track and I think it looks better. So that's why I chose code 83. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin.

[@rvnmedic1968]

@@Modeltrains OK, I now remember the flange issue. As I'm literally starting from scratch, I will use 83 due to the looks. I have an MRC Prodigy Advanced2 system on order, along with an Athearn UP SD70ACe Salute to UP with the veterans salute also. Now I need to get some rail and build my platform. Thanks for the detailed reply, and BTW, I've already liked and subbed. Cheers, Bob

[@frankhicklin715]

That was very helpful in that insulfrog is ideal for the railway modelling beginner. Thanks

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you for the feedback. Glad to hear you found this video useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@billfusionenterprise]

I was wondering in anyone saw the issue why and seen one somewhat below. Issues can be with number of pick up wheels and smooth electric motors. The trains that have most issue are the little doodlebugs and 4 wheel switchers

[@georgeferrer23]

Thanks for this video, it was a huge help with my problems with electro frog switches thumbs up for you my friend.

[@Modeltrains]

George, thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear you found this useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@georgeferrer23]

Scale Model Trains & Colorado's Joint Line cheers buddy

[@uptownphotography]

Nice video. I never used the Peco Turnouts. Do they have sprung switch points like ME Turnouts? Thanks.

[@Modeltrains]

Peco Turnouts do have a spring in them that keeps the points pushed firmly against the stock rails. Cheers, Kevin

[@Phoenixknight79]

so for a husband and wife, who are planing to build a layout. Which ones would you feel would work best.. I'm just not wanting it where the train stops and jerks I want smooth running.

[@Modeltrains]

Steven, welcome to the hobby. I'd recommend Peco Insulafrog switches if you're just starting. They are very reliable, offer smooth running, simple to wire, and work with either DC or DCC without any modifications. You can see at the end of this video I'm running a small 4-axle switcher through a Peco Insulafrog switch and it is nice an smooth without any problems. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin

[@jimaz6532]

Thanks so much for this explanation of these two types of switches. 🚂

[@Modeltrains]

You're welcome. Cheers, Kevin

[@pauld5818]

HELLO THERE A VERY CONCISE VIDEO ,,BUT I HAVE A PROBLEM,SOME OF MY SMALL..SWITCHERS,ESPECIALLY MY BROADWAY LIMITED STALL ON THE SWITCHES,,VERY ANNOYING ,ANY ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT PLEASE

[@Modeltrains]

Paul, it is very hard to troubleshoot electrical problems from afar, but here goes. Is is just one engine, all smaller engines on one specific switch, or the same smaller engines on all of your switches? That might help you narrow down whether you should be looking at a problem with your switches or a problem with your engines. It could be that the wires for the all-wheel pickups in the engine are disconnected so only some wheels are picking up power. It could also be that either the switch points, closure rails are not powered. If your switches have a small hing on them (like the Peco ones in the video) between the switch points and the closure rail, sometimes the electrical connection at that hing isn't very good. That will lead to the entire length of the closure rail being unpowered on an insulated frog switch--that's a pretty long stretch. You might need to run a jumper from the stock rail to the closure rail. However, if you have powered frogs, then the wiring is a bit different to ensure all the various rails are powered. Try to narrow down exactly where the wheels are on the switch when it does have power, and when it doesn't have power. That will help you figure out what type of problem to start trouble shooting. Additionally if the switch points are only powered through their contact with the stock rail (most switches are like this), then any paint, glue, ballast, dust, etc between the switch point and stock rail when closed will impede electricity flowing from the stock rail to the switch point. Again, if that's the case you can have a really long section of unpowered rail. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin

[@lionellance]

Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance put this one in my favorites

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the compliment. Glad to hear you liked the video. Cheers, Kevin

[@alainaarrhodge5413]

This is probably one of the best videos comparing electro vs insul-frog switches I've watched...and I've watched many videos!! I do have a question for you though. Our club layout just upgraded our power box and now, for some unknown reason, we're having issues with our crossovers. We have DCC with the option of DC power with the flip of a switch on 4 different "lines." We didn't have issues previously with our crossovers but we do now. Any thoughts?

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you for the compliments on my video. As far as your crossover it is had to say. One thing it might be is that your upgraded power box is allowing the power to arc just a bit farther and that's causing the short. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin.

[@alainaarrhodge5413]

@@Modeltrains that's a great place to start looking. Thank you so much!! Keep up the great work!!

[@ronk3031]

Great video, I understand it much better now! Could you make a video on the wiring and frogs of a Peco double cross over with all the motors and frogs and everything explained! That would be great Thanks!

[@Modeltrains]

Ron, thanks for the feedback ans suggestion for a future video. Cheers, Kevin

[@douglasallen511]

I am a beginner and so my question is, don't instructions come with the turnouts which would answer your questions?

[@derRoteKampfflieger]

As I promised elsewhere I am watching your other videos. Another great, clear concise video. You've got this down! I don't bother subscribing to many channels, but you've sold me. I do have a question; do these shorts damage the locomotives at all? I am the sort that likes to buy once, planning for future needs so the electro frog fits the bill, but the insul frog IS tempting for simplicity sake. Risk to equipment could play a major role in my decision making.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the feedback and for subscribing to my channel. I've personally never experienced any problems with my engines or control system because of any of the shorts. Most modern control systems, whether DC or DCC, have short protection built in. Generally if they detect a short they will cut power to the rails. Both types are excellent. Additionally, Peco has now started producing what they call a "Uni-Frog". It is effectively an Insul-Frog out of the box, but the frog can be powered like an Electo-Frog if you need a powered frog. I've gotten a few of these in HOn3 and they work great. However, I'm not sure they have made these yet for their entire line of switches and crossings. Hope this helps.

[@philliproe204]

Thanks, never knew what they meant by frog in model railroading!

[@barrytipton1179]

Thanks I think I understand and just to confuse thinks more we call them points here in the uk where trains were invented lol good video

[@leeclarke2743]

Also where he says "guard rails"... in England we call them "check rails" and the English term is probably correct because none of you foreigners can speak (nor spell) our language properly only joking but it's true 😂😁😀

[@haroldsmuck3569]

Where did you purchase the #8 turnouts? Thanks. I have been enjoying your videos very much.

[@Modeltrains]

I bought them at House of Trains in Omaha Nebraska. Cheers, Kevin

[@2491bluebottle]

excuse my confusion but if you use insulated joiners on a electrofrog switch (point) you will have a longer length of dead rail ,which is ok for us locos but with 0-6-0 locos could be a problem,good video.

[@Modeltrains]

With an electofrog switch you have to power the isolated frog and rails separately. This section has to change polarity based upon which way the switch is thrown. Cheers, Kevin

[@2491bluebottle]

thanks Geoff

[@nathilliv1002]

VERY well done. I appreciate it very much.

[@Modeltrains]

You're welcome. Glad you found this video useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@rtalbot87]

Good video. Very clear. Thank you.

[@ghewitt94]

A very good summary of the differences.

[@Modeltrains]

George, thanks for the feedback. Cheers, Kevin

[@spacecalander]

what does it mean with a peco switch electrofrog when i switch it it shorts the main and my nce. Brand new, changed to an atlas same thing. Thanks great video.

[@Modeltrains]

Had to tell, but I'd start by making sure the rails leading to the frog are electrically isolated. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin

[@spacecalander]

Thanks so much Kevin, love all your videos very informative, thanks for taking the time for us all.

[@nrandel1]

I don't comprehended well at all, one of my learning disabilities; so, my question would be how do I determine which turnout to use-what's the determine factor?

[@Modeltrains]

It is really personal preference as to which turnout to use as they both work really well. However, if I was to recommend one over the other it would be the Insulfrog version. They are a little bit easier to wire than the Electrofrog versions and for most all applications work just as well. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin.

[@grandparails8858]

Valuable information to have! Thanks Kevin!

[@Modeltrains]

John, thanks for the feedback on the video. Glad you found the information useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@urban4957]

1:50 I kinda just call them points, thats probably a british thing though.

[@kirboysgaming6937]

Lol

[@matthewlastrapes8104]

Don't know what turnouts are the best I am going to have code 100 track can't find good turnouts

[@Modeltrains]

Matt, Peco makes code 100 switches. You might want to try them. Cheers, Kevin

[@ChinaAl]

Did ya even mention aout reversing loops as concerns the 2 switches? You mentioned shorting but I didn't hear you specifically mention that. A lot of folks get confused.

[@Modeltrains]

No, I didn't cover reverse loops in this video. There are lots of special wiring considerations, such as reverse loops, that need to be considered when building a layout. This video was not intended to cover how to wire your layout, but rather focused on the differences in powered and non-powered frog switches. Either can be used with reverse loops as long as you understand the wiring and power routing differences between them. Cheers, Kevin

[@ChinaAl]

Thanks for the reply. Okay I stand corrected but using the insulating frog I thought would make it easier in that respect.

[@Synthematix]

PECO made in Devon England, and its still the best track

[@Modeltrains]

Agree. Cheers, Kevin

[@michelemiller3122]

Thanks ! Cleared things up for me.

[@Modeltrains]

Michele, you're welcome. I'm glad to hear you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@j8u2]

A "turnout" is comprised of movable switch points, a curved stock rail, a straight stock rail, closure rails a frog and guard rails opposite the frog attached to the stock rails unless the frog is self-guarding. "Switch" refers to the movable point or points of a turnout as per prototype catalogs such as L. B. Foster, Bethlehem Steel, every railroad that I know of as well as my experience on the prototype. It has nothing to do with an electrical switch that you may use on your model railroad.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the additional information. Cheers, Kevin.

[@mikedurhan9941]

Very helpful. Thank you.

[@dwightatnorthernstar1820]

According to Peco web site, in the instructions, if we following the instructions EXACTLY, that short at Insulfrog frog can be avoided...:) Or so I am told......

[@Modeltrains]

Both the Peco Insulfrog and Electrofrog are excellent switches and are DC and DCC ready straight from the package. The potential for a short only occurs if a wheel set is out of gauge, derailed, or something else that would cause a piece of metal to contact the two closure rails at the same time. On my current layout I have only Peco Insulfrog switches and they all work great and this short very rarely happens. Cheers, Kevin

[@dwightatnorthernstar1820]

Scale Model Trains & Colorado's Joint Line same for me ho and n scale layouts

[@JoeG-firehousewhiskey]

Awesome information, this is very helpful!

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks Joe. Glad to hear you found the information useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@farokhkapadia1373]

Very good explanation

[@markmatteo2417]

I recently installed a #8 Peco electrofrog into my layout. I wired a Blue Point switch machine. When I run a locomotive over this turnout, there is a point where the locomotive stops completely, especially of course at lower speeds. Three other locomotives responded exactly the same way at the same spot. I checked my wiring, I ran a voltage meter over the turnout, there is voltage, even where the loco stops. I rewired the Blue Point. Nothing changed. Now, I can't tell 100% but it seems as though the frog is not the dead spot, but more that the switch point rails may be the dead spot, but again, it appears there is voltage there with the meter. I also soldered jumpers from the main rails to the closure rails. I'm completely lost at this point. I can't figure it out, but it is likely that I will replaced this track with insulfrog. Also, even when the train stops or I switch the track, there is no evidence of a short of any type. I'll never put myself through this again. - Mark

[@Modeltrains]

Mark, I think we've all been there before. Not too long ago I spent a couple days trying to isolate a short on my Joint Line layout. It ended up being a Insulfrog switch. Not sure what to tell you about troubleshooting your Electrofrog #8. It sounds like you've done everything I would have tried. I'm going to jumper my stock rails to the closure rails as well so I don't have to rely on the switch point making goo electrical contact. If you think it might be the switch points you could add a small jumper wire from the closure rail to the switch point. There should already be good electrical contact between those two pieces, but it just another idea since you said that might be the problem. Since there isn't a short it does really seem like some portion of the switch isn't powered. Cheers, Kevin

[@markmatteo2417]

Yes, it does Kevin, maybe I will have a more clear brain tomorrow. Frustrating, but maybe the points are dead.

[@markmatteo2417]

It does seem that the point rails are dead, but how many feeders can I drop under a switch? It's already a mess with wiring.

[@markmatteo2417]

I think I am just going to spend the 30 bucks and buy an insulfrog version.

[@grahammoores7244]

Excellent explanation

[@briang6040]

Great explanation of everything!

[@Modeltrains]

Glad you liked the video. Cheers, Kevin

[@JohnAnthonyMcKenna]

Hi I'm from England Liverpool Here we call them "Points"

[@mysowgyna2927]

The ONLY reason you will have problems with older DC loco conversions is if you do not have multiple pickups, as most older(DC) locos DO NOT. Adding a pickup to another set of wheels only requires that the space between the pickups is greater than the insulated frog.

[@Modeltrains]

You're correct that having engines with either all wheel pick up or at least pick up from multiple wheels on at least two trucks will greatly improve performance when going through switches with insulated frogs. Additionally, having flywheels in your engine will help carry them through any small interruptions in power pick up. However, even with all wheel pick up there are still occasions when an engine can momentarily loose power when going through an insulated frog switch. Especially if the engine is equipped with a sound DCC decoder. It shouldn't happen since both sets of wheels aren't above the insulated frog at the same time, but it does happen sometimes. I've see it lots of times on various layouts over the years--with long wheelbase engines with all wheel pick up. Even on my Colorado Joint Line layout, which uses all Peco code 83 Insulfrog switches, occasionally a sound equipped engine will get just enough of a change in power pickup going through the switch that the sound will cut out for an instant, or even turn off the sound and then begin starting up again. It doesn't happen often, but every couple months one of my engines will cut out just momentarily as it goes over the switch. Cheers, Kevin

[@mysowgyna2927]

It is interesting that you mentioned the sound interruption, that alone tells me that your problem is NOT mechanical, i.e. insulated frogs, but an electrical problem. There are 2 possibilities: 1) You are over loading your power pack or 2) The wires in your loco are "original" gauge. I looked at a couple of my locos and found that the wires were the same in new "full" featured decoders and the older ones, as well as, the wires from the pickups. Check the layout voltage near the turnout with the "problem", while all your trains are running. In my experience most, not all, intermittent problems tend to be electrical rather than mechanical.

[@billfusionenterprise]

Maybe a buffer capacitor on power lines to sound module (old electronics trick in load switching)

[@geomodelrailroader]

Atlas and Peco both make the Insulfrog line they work great with six axle engines but when you have switchers they don't run. this is why you should upgrade your switches to powered if you are using switchers. if you are using road engines go ahead and use insulfrogs. also note you must gap your rails if you are going to install switches.

[@InterCity134]

Additional reasons for temporary power loss are that your layout and loco are not ideal components but real components on a layout with an environment around it. So dirt and oil on track can mean that the wheels that do have pickup don't get clear signal/power. Thus ensuring as many wheels as possible get the right power is always a good idea.

[@cva6238]

I'm not seeing why you feel the need to switch to the ElectroFrog turnouts. Those Atlas S2's are sweet running little locos. Not sure if they are actually made by Kato, like some other Atlas loco's but the way they run it would not surprise me. Like in life, I try to keep the wiring simple. Less is more. Less is better. Anyhoo, good video and great explanation and thank you for your contribution to our great hobby.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the feedback and compliments on the video. Cheers, Kevin

[@Ryan_Rail]

do you work on your own layout, or are there other layouts you work on that you don't own?

[@Modeltrains]

I mainly work on my own layout but also help out my friends on their layout. Cheers, Kevin

[@Ryan_Rail]

Cool

[@pauleyplay]

That did help Many thanks

[@Modeltrains]

You're welcome. Cheers, Kevin

[@MoosesWorkshop]

Great comparison!

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you. Cheers, Kevin

[@TrainsNStuff]

Fantastic explanation!

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks for the nice compliment on the video. Cheers, Kevin

[@dwightatnorthernstar1820]

Very good explanation, thanks

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you for the feedback. Cheers, Kevin

[@kamala2111]

Thank you excellent video

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you. Cheers, Kevin.

[@kgw800]

Very informative video.

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks. Glad you found the information useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@heronimousbrapson863]

Or you could refer to turnouts/switches as "points".

[@RadINation]

Well I done F***ed up. I bought a lot of atlas insulated code 100 #8 turnout for my yard.

[@douglasallen511]

According to Atlas wiring book #12, all Atlas frogs are insulated but one type has metal and the other one has plastic frogs. If you have the Custom-Line Mark IV style then they can be powered. The book explains the process.

[@BALD8BIL]

great how to video!!!!!

[@suhrrog]

no sound?

[@matthewlastrapes8104]

All right thanks

[@rjl110919581]

THANKS, VIDEO GIVE NEW DETAIL ON THE POINTS

[@Modeltrains]

You're welcome. Glad you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

[@williamrook8580]

Instructive, however hands kept obscuring some parts

[@ryanznamierowski94]

Thank you!

[@ВалерийФилиппов-д8о]

Very good.

[@Modeltrains]

Thank you.

[@MarkInLA]

Please modify your Vid and state which switch is designated "Power-Routing" and which is "All-Live" (At least what are accepted US MRRing terms ) for the viewers. I do know ! But this important MRR nomenclature is beginning to get lost in the shuffle, like telltail and hand car ! But, excellent treatise otherwise ! M

[@crsrdash-840b5]

They are called turnouts because its a hobby term use to identify them from the real railroads. Its not because of toggle switches. Also, you said you are going to use all short wheel base engines. That's just crazy and bias. Any long base wheel engine can handle switching assignments to. Examples include the SD9 series and U28C, Alco RS series, Balwin AS1000 to name a few.

[@Modeltrains]

Tony, thanks for the feedback. I'm sure there are multiple reasons why a lot of model railroaders call model railroad switches turnouts but I've seen references to the reason being to avoid confusion with electrical switches as the most common. That's the reason given in the NMRA definition of turnout as well. I disagree with your assertion that using small wheelbase engines for switchers is crazy or biased. While lots of longer wheel based engines were used for switching assignments, especially in later years, a lot of switch engines, especially early diesels, did have short wheelbases. If you read Pennsy Diesels by Douglas and Weiglin, the chapters on early road switchers and early switchers you'll find mostly short wheel base 4-axle units. Looking at steam engines you'll find 0-4-0, 0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0, etc engines doing switching jobs. On my current Colorado Joint Line layout, the primary yard switchers at my Denver yard are a pair of BN SD9s (since that's what they used there in the 90s), but I don't plan on used any Pennsy SD9s as switchers on this layout. Pennsy had 25 SD9s (Pennsy class ES-17m) and they were used almost exclusively as hump yard switchers. Also, since they were purchased in 1957 they are after my early 50s time frame. For SD7s (ES-15a), Pennsy only had 2 and they were used as pushers on Madison Hill Indiana. The Alco RS series you mentioned does have 4-axle trucks, but the RSD series has 6-axle trucks. I do plan to have some of both RS and RSD road switchers. However, the U28C was a high horsepower road engine, first purchased by Pennsy in 1966. I'm never going to have one of those on my switching layout. If you look at the engines that were used in Philly on switching assignments (not yard switching) in the early 50s, you'll find most are short wheel based engines-both diesel and steam. I never said you can't use a different type of engine, and you'll probably be able to find an example of pretty much every engine doing a switching job at some point. But on my layout I do plan on having mostly short wheel based engines because that is what Pennsy commonly used for its switching and transfer assignments (noting of course the exception of the Baldwin RT-624 transfer engine). Cheers, Kevin

[@crsrdash-840b5]

Thank you for not being cross with my comments.

[@jeffrigden4790]

dirty, oh yeah

[@davidhaczynski8618]

Peco

[@robertwhite8238]

These are known as "points" in England and as they are Peco made (from Devon England)maybe you should adopt the correct terminology?

[@samdean5465]

American English, you call hoods bonnets, spell tires tyres, etc. in the us they are switches, in the UK points.

[@MrNeild123]

That. Sucks.

[@BALD8BIL]

great how to video!!!!!

[@Modeltrains]

Thanks. Cheers, Kevin