Raker Gauge height v Attack angle one can't exist without the other

[@pracakosaipilarka4301]

One thing, the attack angle depends also on how the tooth is sharpened, maybe that's why the rakers on Hexa are higher.

[@ChainsawUsers]

I think stihl pay a bit more attention to detail. It was the Husqvarna chain where the rakers needed attention from new. I check all new chains and adjust if necessary. I have found that happen before where a new chain needs the rakers to be filed a bit

[@masisaltun7640]

Great video champ and thanks for taking the time to explain this relationship. May I ask why you prefer the stihl progressive depth gauge over the husky one? Cheers

[@ChainsawUsers]

The stihl gauge is a bit more aggressive and harder steel

[@stihlnz]

Mate this is Gold .... Will be ordering a Klein asap ...was thinking of going cheap and using my phone level app ...( tell me why that won't work ) I cut 300 + cube a year ...have all the big saws ...square ground chain gives me some sharp chain ..but this will get me a bit more consistent I think ..especially with an old chain. Thanks for your time and effort. If you ever get to Wanaka NZ look up Tom O'Donnell for a beer.

[@ChainsawUsers]

I have a phone app for angles but the Klein is a dedicated unit

[@stihlnz]

@@ChainsawUsers ordered

[@henrybarker1159]

Most interesting This must also tie in to the top plate angle and the amount of hook where is the software to design your own progressive gauges

[@ChainsawUsers]

www.arboristsite.com/threads/tutorial-make-your-own-raker-depth-gauge-supported-by-software-tool.320388/

[@apistosig4173]

Gawd - the cutter raker relationship / ratio is very important.

[@academicmailbox7798]

There was an interesting comment made by one of the individuals milling lumber (and whether it is band saw blades or chain that one uses), I hadn't considered it before. He just had a visual aid of a cross section through a tree trunk with lots of rings. He did explain that with normal cross cutting work (top plate angles of thirty degrees etc), the saw in cross grain cutting it's having to only deal with cutting through a limited number of tree rings at one time. When sawing down in parallel with the fibers of timber, in ripping cuts through lumber he explained that the chainsaw is having to saw through a few dozen tree rings at once. It's a very different type of problem. Anyhow, one gets in to scoring teeth and clearing teeth in those ripping chains. It was noticeable though in another demonstration that when using bog standard full chisel, but chaning the top plate angle to 'zero' degrees, it did produce the smoothest face after cutting lumber along the grain length and direction. I've changed a lot of things about how I sharpen chain and maintain it, from this experience of hundreds of hours of taking 'jacket timber' off of Poplar logs with a chainsaw. And that includes paying more attention to rakers or depth gauges. I feel that my angles of top plate on my chain have gotten flatter. And maybe, I stay out of the gullet more (I sharpen differently for my first sharpening of each day, I use the Oregon file holder guides, which I never did before). Just to kind of bring the chain back to standard (not extremely sharp, but standardized or regularized). For each subsequent re-sharpen over the day's work, I had file using new files without file guides. And that's when my angle of filing gets a lot flatten. I file the gullet more, bring the file up from underneath and scratch the unerneath part of the tooth. And visa versa, file fom top down, from along the direction of the top plate. A lot of tricks and methods aimed more at sharpness. Ripping though has thought me one thing, how fast that chain really becomes dull (in cross cutting we tend to re-sharpen a few times a day, with ripping it can be after every couple of cuts). So if one goes ripping jacket timber off logs, cutting through bark etc, one had better like chain sharpening. What I find now that when I look at cross-grain saw folks, I find they prefer using the saw far more than sharpening it. So they are different disciplines.

[@academicmailbox7798]

One thing I've noticed in looking at lots of sharpening approaches, is metallurgy. Some individuals gravitate towards harder metal tooth chain, Stihl and Husky chain, and a lot of Archer is hard metal too (chainsaw users who prefer their chain to maintain an edge longer). And if you're in that camp, you had better go and look for round file, some of the Swiss brands that the round file metal is hard enough too. And then there's a whole other camp who much prefer Oregon chain that is softer metal, but can be made sharper (those guys will gravitate to shorter bars, larger sprockets, heavier and bigger saws, and often tighter chain tension). And most importantly, chain of .050 inch kerf width, which I find too narrow, but some like a soft, sharper cutting edge. That is smaller, spins quicker on a larger sprocket backed up by a bigger engine. It's a whole different way to cut (the latter want higher rakers, to try and maintain some sharpness a little longer, because they're using the softer chain teeth to get a slightly sharper edge, but it's also a weak edge). And the biggest lesson I learned was not to use softer Oregon round files, on chain that is too hard. Such as the X-cut and the Stihl chain. I do pay way more attention to this now, I used to believe all of the chain I owned with different brand names, it was all the same. And that round files, one is the same as another. And I've learned different. Within 'round filing' itself, it's far from being one standard thing. There are in fact wildly different strengths of metal tooth preferred by folks who approach their cutting and sharpening a totally different way. Arborists just want to put one loop on the way and run it all day. The hardness tooth they can find. Others are the exact opposite, they want the softest tooth they can get away with and try to protect it somewhat (by tightening the chain tension and using as high a raker as they can get away with, and speeding up the chain using an extra sprocket tooth). You could never get both of these camps to agree on anything, but they'll both claim to be in the same 'round filing' team or side. But they're doing everything completely different. Then throw in ripping chain experts on top of it, it creates a whole load of new angles too. I've kind of cobbled together something that's working better for me, but I realize that I have to choose an approach and then set up a saw a certain way. There's no hope of reconciling the soft tooth, and the hard tooth approach together on the one set up. One has to choose a side, choose an approach for whatever setup is most appropriate (and yes, I think that real masters can vary this approach to the circumstance in question, type of tree, type of cut, time of year, moisture content etc).

[@ChainsawUsers]

Thanks for your comments as easy as a. Chainsaw and chain looks ,there are many things to learn about angles and the type of wood you are cutting. I am still learning new tricks in this game.

[@academicmailbox7798]

@@ChainsawUsers What has happened in the 'new media', is that folks trying to learn get conflicting and incompatible messaging (the above example is one case in which there's a reason why the individual might hear things that are incompatible, neither wrong or neither right, and after much consideration now I understand there are different kinds of 'round file' practitioners out there). What one can understand though, is how culture has increasingly become suspicious of information in a broad sense. It turns out that having a wealth of choice of training or tutorial, has un-anticipated kick-back (to borrow that phrase from the realm of using mechanical saw tools). Actually, knowledge of kick-back in my different Husky tools, if anything it has improved my awareness of the broad concept in all my other tools. In circular carpentry saws for example, many don't see that risk, . . . the kick back manifests itself in a different way too with circular carpentry saws (unlike chainsaws where both of one's hands are on the tool, circular saws are more notorious because people 'hold' the timber directly behind the tool, assuming that it's safe). The opposite being true. Same with four inch small angle grinders at the ends of cuts, people have one hand on the grinder and it can rapidly kick back, the vulnerable area being arms with blood arteries. With chainsaws of course it' arteries in thigh muscles. Or toes. My surprise was that small angle grinders said, that with metal sometimes the recip saw can be a lot slower, but far less dangerous from a kick-back point of view at the ends of metal cuts. Anyhow, I'm satisfied that knowing something about chainsaws, it's sharpened my senses when it comes to everything else. No bad thing.

[@ToddAdams1234]

Due to the way a chain works WHILE cutting, you don’t want to maintain a steady angle or you’ll actually slowly go from a “hardwood” setting up to something more aggressive than the “softwood” setting. It’s the same theory that I use the WCS raker gauge tool which is the essentially the modern day Carlton “file-o-plate” tool. Those tools (which are just like the Husqvarna tools) allow you to customize each individual raker to its cutting tooth. Just remember that a chain works in a “rocking” motion. 😁

[@ChainsawUsers]

That's the critical part the rocking motion. As the tooth wears down so does the leverage a 3/8 new chain has approximately 6mm gap between the raker and the cutter at end of life it's about 13mm and the rocking motion leverage has been decreased, so more raker depth is required to make the tooth rock and bite in. It's a bit like a double linear x y graph there is a matching ratio here. The cutter length must match the raker depth. A tooth that is only 3mm long end of life mark will have very little leverage as the the rivit is now almost level with the tooth point and when it reaches this stage the leverage has dropped off dramatically and requires double the depth to allow the same attack angle so the tooth can bite into the timber

[@keparti66]

Did you harden your custom gauges?

[@ChainsawUsers]

No the custom ones are used for certain chains. Then a file runs over the top it mainly just scratches the surface rather than file it. So they last a long time.

[@keparti66]

@ChainsawUsers stainless steel would last quite long i guess

[@chadrogers4635]

Your so called attack angles are redundant. You set your depth/racker gauge for the type of wood you are going to cut. Softer woods can have a lot more aggressive cutting then that of harder woods. And the harder the wood the less aggressive you want the chain. Go ask any logger an they will tell you the same thing.

[@ChainsawUsers]

Why is that please explain so we can understand your logic. No point making a claim without any explanation. Attack angles are used in many wood applications and metal. Do you understand what an attack angle is ???

[@Mightycaptain]

What? My man. This guy knows a lot. He's giving an angle to raker depth. That's it. I find it useful to consider it a different way.

[@pm270100]

In 60s that cut welland good for riping /// pm 270 and rex 122cc