Ranch Fairy & Darrel Barnette - Are Heavy Arrows Better for Deer Hunting? | HUNTR Podcast #55

[@darrelbarnette3216]

Finally getting around to watching the podcast. Troy and I both had a great time getting to meet y'all and sitting down for an honest conversation. Great questions, great interaction, and just a fun time. Looking forward to following up in a few months!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Loved having you guys on Darrel!

[@iamtheshaker]

I’m an aerospace engineer working for Lockheed, and I just have to say I love hearing your insights. The only missed term I was anticipating was neutral point, but your explanation of lever arm was very efficient.

[@darrelbarnette3216]

@@iamtheshaker Thanks for your comment! I like your word choice 'efficient'. I have found that introducing concepts such as neutral point, while certainly correct, requires additional explanation that can be distracting in an introductory discussion. But anyone who's changed a tire understands lever arms. Best of luck in your career in the aerospace industry!

[@iamtheshaker]

@@darrelbarnette3216 Thank you sir! I know Troy mentioned he's currently using Tuffhead broadheads, what are you using? Also, is the presentation you gave the day after this podcast available anywhere?

[@rachett9795]

My girlfriend and I won the draw for Aransas National Wildlife Refuge I hunt with a bow tech amplify maxed out at 70lb draw. I just purchased my custom arrows. The shop had run out of heavier inserts but they got my arrows to 483 grains and from my calculations they have a 15.3% foc. I plan on getting lighted knocks to put them over 500 grains. That takes care of my rig. She hunts with a 10 point m1 turbo crossbow. My question is does this information and configurations apply to crossbow bolts?

[@NimrodArchery]

I love this podcast that people can disagree and agree and go actually have a debate. Every hunting podcast should be for learning not for sales.

[@HUNTRPOD]

That’s the point! Just talk, we are wrong a lot and that’s the point…someone tell us why and let’s move forward!

[@isLife-nn5yl]

Troy’s a great guy. I just found his channel and he literally took time out of a holiday weekend to personally email me several times. I’m all in on trying the “Ranch Fairy” method. Midwest whitetails are not shot at 80 yards. Range should not be a major concern. If it is, do better scouting.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Keep us posted on the success

[@stephenballard3759]

He seems like a "giver", but not the weak type. That's a good leadership quality.

[@brycehiigel235]

Absolutely love this. Great when there is a civil conversation with different ideas. Everyone kept an open mind. When you do you Rocketman test can you video that so we can see the results. Need a part 2 to this

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks Bryce! It was an awesome conversation. We will likely start it this spring!

[@KenKen2023smith]

My head started hurting! Troy showed patience with the hard headed one! He was so hooked on seeing blood. The vital V is the high percentage kill zone. Even more forward than a liver shoot . What’s funny they keep saying we are on the same page but no the heel they not!😂 lord help them!

[@ericsmith5919]

"I want blood trails on gut shots!" "How about shooting better arrows, so you can aim forward and stop getting gut shots in the first place?" "But I want blood trails on gut shots!" Repeat for 2 hours

[@kenferguson2095]

You can take a bowhunter to the fairy dust but you can't make him snort, to me it makes perfect sense, when given the facts some people don't want to know, cognitive dissonance its called 🤦‍♂️🏹🤣

[@jonesoutdoors9901]

I settled in at about 500 grains last year with 150 grain iron will wides. Shot forward as Troy suggested and no deer went out of my sight…counted 25 steps from arrows to deer twice. One deer didn’t have much blood because the shoulder blades helped plug up the hole but when they only go 25 steps it doesn’t matter.

[@timl8302]

I'm going with 525gr.

[@omarcurbelo5342]

The smartest guy in the room didn’t get to say much. The beauty of Joe Rogan’s podcast is that he brings smart people, stimulates conversations and allows the smart person speak.

[@tothepoint1418]

Great podcast. Need to see more of these back and forth conversations. A lot of good info and explanations come out with a little push back.

[@HUNTRPOD]

All we want is for people to start talking, tell us we are wrong and don’t know what we are talking about! Discussion is good for us all!

[@dock9626]

Well done, boys. I think Troy's appeal is it speaks to folks who are honest about their archery skills. A setup that PLANS for the shoulder and isn't coming from someone who shoots over 40 yards is very reassuring.

[@jasonito1723]

This was such an awesome conversation. It brings the pov of the average joe hunter, guy pulling 65#, the 🍖 head that wants to pull 80#, the physicist, and the blood trauma expert in one place. This was a must watch if you want to successfully harvest more animals with an arrow.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Haha thank you (I think)

[@jasonito1723]

@@HUNTRPOD I truly meant my comment to be a compliment. I too am a pseudo meat head who owns an Obsession lawless 80# limbs and flings 620 gr arrows with it. I want less drop down range, but all arrows drop that's what practice is for. After changing to 300 gr single bevel grizzlies, i have not lost a boar yet. Most shots around 15 yds and in the head or neck. They normally fall right over. But i know if i have to take a far shot the drop is around 40" at 50 yds. It's not intimidating if you practice. Anyway I rambled on long enough. You got a subscriber and a believer. Keep on flinging adult arrows

[@barrelmaker3930]

Just built a set of arrows following Ashby's 12 factors the best you can and play with it. It is actually fun and interesting.

[@TradTech]

Just catching up on Troy's input where I can find it. It's taken months to find content to help me understand FOC and the advantages. Wrapping my head around it was a cranial catfight. Great podcast guys. BTW, Apollo 300/100gr insert/200 grain fp/single bevel. My drop at 40 yds is 3+" with 200 gr vs 125. At 20 yds, insignificant. I'm an eastern whitetail hunter and TN/FL hog hunter. 635 grains rock and perform!

[@Stempy]

Just fell down this rabbit hole few weeks ago, moved into some Vector arrows, tuning to find my tip weight now, 200, 225 and 250 are similarso far. Was shooting light arrows with Rage Hypodermics. New subscriber to learn with you! Great stuff so far!

[@kanemullins9495]

I’ve had the blades on a hypodermic just shear off hitting a deer definitely trying the heavy FOC setup this year

[@Stempy]

@@kanemullins9495 I can report it's been an awesome change. Harvested 2 by bow last year. Clean passthroughs.

[@allenchason2473]

The industry needs more podcast like this. Great info!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks Allen! We will keep them coming

[@zackarnett2070]

really enjoyed how you guys pushed back on some of his points and did not just agree with everything. really refreshing. Could you guys list your arrow set ups? I know you mentioned it multiple times but it is hard to catch everything. Really entertaining episode!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Zack I’ll (Jeremy) do my best: Mine - 29 3/4” victory rip tko 300with victory outsert and 100gr broadhead Jared - 29 1/2” victory vap with ethics outsert and 100gr broadhead

[@glennl9630]

Pushed Back these guys some how know more than a Rocket Scientist.

[@raybship1]

One thing I wish you'd have discussed is arrow speed and deer reaction time at distance. You need to be at like 700 FPS at 30+ yards to make any real difference if a deer starts to move so 625gr or 350gr isn't going to allow you the extra speed to beat deer at a distance. I am at 530gr at 268 fps the last two years and my bow is quiet. Deer are dying again and fast. All pass throughs with a single bevel that is razor sharp. 3 deer all dead in sight 40 yards or less. Thank you Troy I'm never going back

[@HUNTRPOD]

Good testimony Ray!

[@outlawcustombows]

Absolutely loved the big talking about their set ups and then shot placement on a deer broadside and they were like "wait what do you mean its liver? Ha ha ha!! Guys out shooting deer and don't even know where to shoot them... straight up the leg, 2/3 down from the back. Hit that heart shot lads!!

[@michaelroberts3731]

A few years ago I was on a management hunt were I had to harvest two does before harvesting a buck. The first doe I shot with a Rage Hypodermic and experienced one blade deploying before the other on impact. It stopped the arrow and the rear of the arrow went drastically to the left, killing all momentum. It was at 15 years, perfect broadside, shooting 70 lbs. Took me by surprise. Two days later, same tree stand, second doe comes through and I used a 100gr fixed Thunderhead. 15 yard shot, arrow went completely through the doe and still had enough energy to stick into a tree. At the time my setup was just over 480 grains. Both shots in the same spot on the animal.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Interesting…how was the blood with the Thunderhead?

[@michaelroberts3731]

A good blood trail. Started about ten yards from spot of shot. Complete pass through helped.

[@kevinmeeske3412]

Grew up shooting archery. Early 80s never had any problems shop's. Had to earn on my own.. F.F. Overdraws come on the scene. Short light arrows. Speed kills I heard. Bows blew apart. I Never agreed. Throw a pillow off a roof at me. I'll drop a brick on you. I never had science to back me up. But knew from shooting 10s of thousands of arrows light was asking for failure. Later I talk to guys on the light fast wagon..tell of turkeys that stopped arrows n ran off. Ugh. Thank you Troy n guys

[@matthewgill9820]

Just switched to a recurve from 14 years of shooting compound. Bare shaft tuned my first set of arrows. What these guys are saying makes sense once you break it down and see it yourself. I think most common compound shooters just worry about point of impact and not perfect arrow flight. I understand the worry of loss of speed but also the further you shoot the more chance for a poor shot and then you need the “plan B” arrow even more. Was a good podcast to hear someone questions Troy’s theories though!

[@timl8302]

I'm going to 525gr with 250gr total upfront. He says 550gr minimum. It's speed vs weight vs distance. Personal choice.

[@bmalone0688]

I hope a lot of industry folks went and listened to their seminars. I think at first a lot of folks thought Troy was full of crap a couple of years ago. Having Darrel and his background and way to explain things will definitely help them make a bigger impact with their ideas I think. I added about 75 grains to my arrows this past offseason to put them right around 500 and did the tuning and could tell a huge difference. Keep em coming guys!

[@HUNTRPOD]

That seems to be the sweet spot we are leaning towards

[@bobbyjorogers4937]

Absolute needed conversation in Archery Hunting .

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks Bobby!

[@bradheni2216]

Great podcast again! I switched my arrow setup 2 years ago because of Ranch Fairy. Cutthroat single bevel 125 grain, 100 grain insert, 500 grain total. Pass throughs at 10 and 15 yards on 2 nice bucks, both heart shots and neither had a blood trail at all. Both crashed between 50-70 yards so no blood trail needed.

[@jfreak7589]

You would probably have got a pass through with any setup on a heart shot at 10 yards

[@HUNTRPOD]

I’m not entirely sold on a setup super heavy. But I think the 425-500 sweet spot is there and that’s success!

[@bradheni2216]

@@jfreak7589 Probably not, but you would hope. If you pay attention to the podcast, back lung shots with flappers many times stop on contact. Heart shots are more forward which involves shoulder and bone. Agree to disagree!

[@davidholliday3286]

@@HUNTRPOD on a deer for sure, on an Elk???

[@colbykinney5633]

Great show fellas! I love Ranch Fairy, I've learned so much from his channel.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Troy and Darrel are a wealth of knowledge

[@timstangret2348]

Absolute perfection guys !! I really love the smart questions and the feedback you got in return was very educational thanks

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks Tim! Really enjoyed this one

[@joeykessinger6464]

One of your best podcast this far. Keep it up!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks Joey!

[@christopherkielbasa7797]

Wow. I missed this. Excellent. Dagnab Rocket Man dented my brain with this lift controls the arrow, but that gives me a new topic to talk to my therapist with.

[@darrelbarnette3216]

Better get another appointment with you therapist. We'll all be back at ATA to do it again in January, 2023!

[@-lovefromnh]

I went out to Ohio this year and shot a nice 8 pointer at 33 yards with a 600 grain arrow. I saw exactly what Troy described firsthand! It went through his on-side scapula, severed his aortic arch and exited just about the off-side elbow (the sweet spot). I watched him drop exactly 30 yards from impact. He was deadah (yes I live in New England) than a doornail. Complete pass through with a Tooth of the Arrow XL 125gr head. All the blood was in his chest cavity. I from what I got from the exchange of the mechanical vs. fixed was if you're aiming correctly, the advantage goes to the fixed for more forward and the mechanical for further back mistakes. Thanks for the content as always. Good luck out there. -Love from NH

[@HUNTRPOD]

Makes sense man, I guess if they drop in sight no worries. But if no blood and out of sight then we worry

[@-lovefromnh]

@@HUNTRPOD but they don't go that far. UNLESS you hit them through the guts. I did that on a doe this year. She was quartering away. I made a good shot through the guts and out one lung. She went 200 yds. She was still alive when I bumped her. Lost two feet of intestines and then died within sight. Blood trail was easy to follow. I understand what your thought process was though.

[@davidholliday3286]

@@HUNTRPOD That is what the dogs are for. Call the blood trackers, great organization.

[@danchamberlain9434]

As a mostly trad guy I loved this! Every word they said is true. Great show & hope u guys really look into this info. I shoot a 51lb longbow & 585 grain arrow with 18-20% FOC. Shoot great & blow thru deer & bear here in NY

[@HUNTRPOD]

Makes a ton of sense for trad setups!

[@carlparisi9749]

With THP running Ranch Fairy approved setups the market is bound to shift in this direction. The confidence I’ve gained using 575 grains from my previous 440 is huge in itself. I know if I hit some bone at 20 yards it doesn’t matter. I don’t fear one side of the vitals over another so my concentration doesn’t break or blunder. I’m not perfect but being confident I’ll blow through whatever I hit let’s me concentrate on shooting for the vitals.

[@carlparisi9749]

Didn’t know about you guys but I’m now subscribed 👍

[@cgraham9727]

Ive watched/listened to just about every podcast Troy has been on explaining these concepts and I have to say I have enjoyed this one the most! The format/style you guys have going allows you to ask the skeptical questions that are on everyone’s minds which is perfect. This gives the person (Troy in this instance) a unique opportunity to answer those questions directly and allows us to listen and learn! Great job guys! Im a new subscriber!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Love hearing this! This is exactly what we try to do week in and out

[@alexpinnow6509]

Absolutely great podcast guys!! This is the stuff that people need to know. Heavier arrows and cut on contact sharp fixed blade broadheads work! I learned a ton about spine aligning and supplement bareshaft tuning and just want to build some arrows now

[@HUNTRPOD]

We are just diving into this world!

[@kenamatice282]

Very good info here. One thing I was thinking when they were talking about blood trails and wanting a big hole. If I shoot a mechanical with a 2 in cutting diameter vs a fixed blade with a 1 1/4 in diameter and the mechanical doesn't get a pass through and the fixed does, there would be more "hole opening" in the animal with the fixed. Also, if you are in a tree stand the mechanical hole would be higher than the exit hole with the fixed. The blood would have to fill less chest cavity before finding the exit hole, more blood on the ground

[@ajrichards3720]

So I bought the Apollo ez button in a 200 spine and got them today. 632 grain set up and flies really nice out of my v3 with a 30.5 draw and 75# draw weight. Pins haven’t changed much from my previous set up. But almost 4 more inches of penetration from previous arrows.

[@CoachGoodwin23]

This is a great discussion. Excellent podcast! Great job guys!

[@travismonk2202]

Loved the podcast. I have learned so much from Ranchfairy on getting the arrow flight perfect first and then you go from there.

[@HUNTRPOD]

That’s it! Be accurate and consistent

[@bryanarnold519]

So much to be learned from this. Shared this one to all off the buddies. Thanks guys!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Appreciate spreading the word Bryan!

[@snapcrack55]

They briefly touched on pin gap. With light arrows the pin gap quickly increases, but with the heavy setup the pin gap is almost symmetrical because of the momentum that the arrow retains.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Good comment!

[@kevinfowler6065]

Probably the best info podcast ever!!!!! I know ten guys I’m gonna send this podcast to.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Flattering Kevin! We really loved this one

[@rogerramjet7567]

Great job everyone. For me, single bevel 125, always passes through. Iron will gets it done.

[@StealthTRD]

I feel like that is the perfect medium

[@CarlosRamirez-kq2bd]

Open mindedness is key, willingness to try new ideas, really enjoyed listening to troy and Darrel. I shoot 58 lb or less, due to shoulder injury, with a 520 gr. arrow, 29" drawlength. 23% f.o.c. great arrow flight with broadheads.

[@HUNTRPOD]

That’s a missile Carlos!

[@scottbryant6349]

Great job again guys, really good to have conversations and it's the same motivating factors that we all share that drive good conversations and innovation. We don't always have to agree on every small thing but it's good to be on the same team and striving for that success. Jeremy I invited you to a group if you and Jared want to continue having some conversations about this with some other professionals in the hunting community. Hope you guys can join us but if not, that's ok too. Appreciate what you guys do

[@HUNTRPOD]

We will check it out man!

[@MrJasonricker]

Great exchange and robust debate!

[@darrelbarnette3216]

And enjoyable for all of us. Funny that we met on the bus on the way back to the hotel the night before, and it just kind of fell into place for the next day.

[@shugman3090]

I switched back to fixed this year after having a Rage lose both blades going through the ribs of a 100# doe. Haven’t made the leap to single bevel, but it’s coming.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Yikes…watch out for the Amazon rage too, they aren’t real in many cases

[@StealthTRD]

@@HUNTRPOD man what about the QAD Exodus from Amazon 🥺

[@adammiller4595]

I’ve gotta say this is just taken way overboard for almost any whitetail situation. If you take any arrow and just about any broadhead with today’s bows and hit the deer in the right spot you’re not going to have a problem. People just need to go out and hunt. Good episode though!

[@HUNTRPOD]

We are with you Adam. A little weight forward and FOC…game over

[@davidholliday3286]

There is no such thing as overboard but there is such a thing as wound loss.

[@snapcrack55]

BUT.....mistakes happen. So plan for the worst=RF setups

[@lymanclark5537]

To assist folks building arrows, get the arrow manufactures to do arrow build charts (spine) for broadheads or FOC in the 150+ range. Most everything out there only tests standard inserts and 125 grain points. I love these discussions. Thanks guys!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Definitely would help Lyman!

[@russelllangworthy8855]

Easton used to have a chart on the back of the boxes of aluminum arrows. It would show a range of arrow sizes for different draw weights, arrow lengths, round wheel vs.cams, point weight, etc.

[@tacticalsnoopy]

Great podcast, maybe my favorite so far.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Appreciate the listen as always!

[@snapcrack55]

I think the point that needed to be made is that with the Ranch Fairy setup is you can aim for the kill zone from almost ANY angle because it will go through bone! Aim for the top of the heart with a heavy, sharp, durable, tuned arrow.

[@HUNTRPOD]

That makes sense but I still think a big cut and fast arrow with FOC has its place

[@ericsmith5919]

@@HUNTRPOD I don't understand how you can say "I trust this arrow setup to penetrate through anything" while also saying "I shot a deer with this arrow setup and got 7 inches of penetration." You watched your setup fail completely right in front of you, so why do you still trust it?

[@ClintLane]

Yes! Looking forward to the rocket man challenge. Great podcast fellas.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Haha we can’t wait!

[@dmc31405]

Great listening to 4 great minds sharing useful real world info. Can't wait to see Troy go Elk Hunting.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks man!

[@fisherman_rue2403]

Great podcast! Thanks for having those guys.

[@HUNTRPOD]

It was fun for sure!

[@fisherman_rue2403]

@@HUNTRPOD It sure looked like it. I'm really enjoying their prospective and influence to the archery world.

[@blakeumthun8128]

This is the 1st time I've watched a HUNTR podcast and have only been watching Troy for a few weeks. I was just like you guys and for all of the same reasons, then a couple bone hits and lost deer started changing my mind. I had already planned on upping my point weights and using a solid broadhead because of lack of penetration before I ever heard of Troy. And it's funny because a guy in a traditional group on Facebook is the 1st one I heard talk about him. If it worked for the Trad guys of old, why the hell not for the compound guys? I can say, I've snorted enough Fairy Dust to go all in down this rabbit hole. Hopefully nest year I can get some good attempts to see if this is the right direction. BTW, that was one of the best podcasts I've seen in a long time!!

[@CryptoHuntinDad]

I have a short draw length so I shoot my 650 gr, I went from 400 gr expanding head bouncing off, to 505 gr 74 lbs single bevel blowing through both sides. I can show you pics of going straight through bones and the head looks great. Sharpen it and move to the next hunt. I shoot 80 yards all the time with 505 gr at 27 in draw. But I still have range in my sight to shoot out to 100. If I went back to my 100 gr head I could shoot 120 yards

[@davidholliday3286]

Great podcast, what this industry needs. Part 2 please!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks David!

[@daniellawson652]

I’m just getting into archery and I’ve been super suspect of mechanical broad heads. To me there are just too many variables on a tool that you are launching into space and have no control after that. My quarry is: once we strip the arrow bare, how do we actually determine the favorable position of the knock? If the arrow is spinning preferably in a clockwise manner to hold the broad head tight, then how is the weight of the spine preferred at launch? Is it preferred to top load this weight? Thank you for this insight.

[@chrisduve8683]

Hi all, Troy I have been a listener from the beginning! On the topic of the old brass pins that we used in the 90’s, I believed they were at different spaces out from the bow both because of arrow flight but mostly because there were no bubble levels on sights then and we were canting the bow one way or the other.

[@danielstern9696]

Great podcast! I've seen some of ranch fairy's stiff before and it makes sense. One thing I've seen about blood trails is they are unpredictable. Sometime the blade size doesn't matter. If the hole gets clogged or is high the chest fills with blood but never leaks out. The buck I shot this year died in 50-75 yds in thick brush on a good hit. I found 3 drops of blood. When I got to the deer it's cavity was filled with blood.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Jared and I won’t sacrifice blood for pass thru, that’s for sure!

[@aaronnance4199]

@@HUNTRPOD two holes better than one for blood.

[@goldxpeak3842]

Had a bad experience with a shwacker nicked shoulder center punched rib and got 6-8” penetration(this would have happened with any mechanical because of inconsistent deployment and bone). If you saw how mangled the broadhead was you never would’ve believed how much it bled one blade deployed and bent to the side the other didn’t deploy and to boot the broadhead bent in the insert, the only open blade nicked the top of the aorta. Deer didn’t go 50 yards and spewed a gallon of blood right where it died. To add to this I was going to switch to magnus broadheads last year and do the whole bareshaft tuning process but got lazy and came so close to regretting being lazy, this year is different shwackers are going in the waste em on coyotes pile and I’ve order the broadheads and ordering stiffer arrows.

[@johna2835]

great podcast - I want to hear the results from the rocketman challenge

[@HUNTRPOD]

Soon!

[@darrelbarnette3216]

Me too! Maybe they will have it done before January 2023 and can share with us the results!

[@johna2835]

@@darrelbarnette3216 At this point I think we can all assume they were embarrassed enough by the results that they are never going to post results :)

[@daveyboy8907]

Just watched this and now 2 years later whats your guys arrow setup?? I am experimenting now with my new bow.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Haven't changed much! Shooting Easton shafts now but Jared 250 spine at 80 lbs Jeremy 300 at 70. Weighted outserts and 125 grn sevrs up front. Jared total arrow weight 500 Jeremy around 460 I think😬

[@daveyboy8907]

@@HUNTRPOD Thanks, I will keep Jeremys in mind since I shoot 70lb. Take care

[@bigz5262]

Did you ever document your cold shots you were talking about?

[@HUNTRPOD]

We will be sharing it soon!

[@bigz5262]

@@HUNTRPOD awesome!

[@justintaylor428]

followed the ranch fairy and changed my setup last year and ill never look back, more accurate, bow is quieter, arrow stuck in the ground and blood everywhere from shooting the magnis head, 19% FOC

[@HUNTRPOD]

It’s such a critical topic for bowhunters

[@grayman7208]

1:00:22 that is why heavier, slower bullets lose their velocity slower, eventually pass the lighter bullets, and also penetrate deeper.

[@christophersherrington5412]

A pass through also means your arrow has a better chance of surviving. If it is stuck in the animal 9 times out of 10 the animal rolls and snaps the arrow or breaks the shaft with the leg as it comes back. Pass through means you arrow has a much better chance of being ok to use again.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Definitely right but if kills the deer I don’t care about re use. In fact I have an arrow graveyard on my wall in my hunting room with all arrows that kill deer.

[@chucklewis5396]

Good podcast guys!! Been shooting KUDU 125gr heads and like them.. Did have a steep mountain shot this year (30yds with about a 55-60deg down angle) and caught spine and off side shoulder.. I had about 8-10" of arrow still sticking out because.. double bone lol.. 540gr arrow at 285fps. Thinking about trying the Xecutioner 125gr Hybrid head this upcoming year.. To me it's one of the toughest expandables out there, but I will also be shooting it out of an 80lb bow because the energy dump is going to be high because the expandable part is a over the top design and the blades stop at a very shallow angle. Keep up the good work!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Great feedback Chuck! We will check those heads out for sure!

[@inthemountainswithmeachum3256]

I really like the fact that these young guys are brave enough and men enough to call out the industry for exactly what it is driven by money and wannabe celebrities. Bravo to you fellas 👏 And if it wasn't for Troy I would have never changed my setup the way that I had and I would continue to be sure is equal stressed and pissed and heartbroken from deer running off with my arrow sticking out of it and never finding The deer Or worst case scenario shoot him in the shoulder a week later you see the deer walking around with your arrow sticking out of its shoulder

[@HUNTRPOD]

Haha just being us, sure it’ll ruffle a few feathers but oh well

[@Michael-um7uu]

What a great podcast! Really learned a lot. I agree with your thoughts on the archery industry and change that is needed and info like this is a good start! Great podcast!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Great to hear Michael!

[@Risen.Outdoors]

I have been interested in heavy arrows for awhile, but I always thought you needed to be above 700 grains which wasn't something I believed in. It was nice to see RF discuss 500-550 grain arrows. Also, a lot people in the industry have started offering ready to go pre made arrows which makes this a much easier thing to get on board with.

[@HUNTRPOD]

I think that was great to hear. He reaffirmed our thinking!

[@phillipthewise7758]

I use a heavy setup now as well. Aim for the armpit everytime and it works. Shot 3 deer this year. All less than 30 yard shots and watch them all die within sight. Just try the setup! The Rage will fail. It's only a matter of time.

[@HUNTRPOD]

What broadheads are you using Phillip? We are open to it all just trying to find the balance!

[@phillipthewise7758]

Magnus stringer buzzcut. (125gr) I like the fact that I can get the heads razor sharp. Never found any mechanicals that were sharp out of the box.

[@phillipthewise7758]

@@HUNTRPOD sidenote...the shot show looked dead. Do you think covid was the reason?

[@MrTim41379]

I have been down both of these roads. I was shooting a very similar set up as you guys with the 475 grain arrow and the rage on the end. I had limited success but when I did have great success I had awesome blood trails. Two years ago I switched to the high foc 647 grain arrow with a valkyrie broadhead and over the last 2 years I have not had a single deer further than 45 yards. My blood trails have been good but have not been needed all deer have died in sight.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Interesting Tim! Do you feel that you haven’t been too negatively affected by speed?

[@MrTim41379]

No not at all. I think everyone is still stuck on the speed kills saying. Bows are meant to be close range weapon not these 100 yard weapons as advertised. I have not lost a single deer since going to this setup.

[@russelllangworthy8855]

@@MrTim41379 How many deer have you shot over the past two seasons?

[@MrTim41379]

@@russelllangworthy8855 I have shot 7 deer with this setup over the past 2 seasons.

[@russelllangworthy8855]

@@MrTim41379 Pretty cool. Are you a landowner that gets multiple tags? Or just hunt a state that allows all those deer?

[@Rayraysrides]

Great discussion

[@southwestohoutdoors6729]

If you can’t give up 15-20fps and Stop shooting 70 yards, then you are the problem. dude in the Hoyt shirt had one time where he didn’t hit anything hard and you didn’t have penetration issues. Like Troy said, when it fails he’ll be there. 1:14:56 is where it all makes sense… “I built out arrows so we didn’t have to”. Set your pride aside and realize you built them to the industry standard for speed and not impact at The animal like Troy has said the last hour. I know it hurts to admit it because I had to. I went from a 440 grain arrow to a 585 grain arrow. 1000 percent better for me. I killed a hog with it at 30 yards and it was at that point I said “I was wrong for the last 10 years”.

[@cronkthecrunk]

You guys hunt south dakota? I'm from belle fourche

[@glennl9630]

True good shots everything works!

[@ericsmith5919]

My God this is frustrating to listen to. It's just 2 hours back and forth of these guys saying "I want deer to bleed when I shoot them in the guts", then Ranch Fairy saying "But isn't it better to have deer die when you shoot them in the shoulder, so you can just move your aim point forward and *not* shoot them in the guts?" Then these guys turn right back around and say "well yeah, but I want deer to bleed when I shoot them in the guts. Don't we basically agree with each other?"

[@StealthTRD]

Anybody know about going heavy with crossbows I use a raven and was thinking about going a little heavier

[@ernestroger3326]

Never ever thought about the Kinetic energy at the target . Amazing insight and information . So , it makes me wonder about my setup . I shoot a Bear Species EV bow at 40 pounds . I shoot Vector HMR 400 spine arrows that weigh 566 grains FOC is 19%. My effective range is 20;yards . Last measure at the chronograph was 192 fps. What must my kinetic energy be at the deer at 20 yards ?

[@HUNTRPOD]

Interesting…honestly I think you would lose very little at the target with a slower heavier arrow and high FOC

[@ernestroger3326]

@@HUNTRPOD thank you for taking the time . Thanks.

[@craigholland2274]

I like slick trick grizz tricks. I used to used trypans and never lost one, but made secessions to go back to fixed.they make other good 4 blades too.im kinda in middle on weight at 485 gr arrow and goes 286. Pretty happy w my setup now.

[@HUNTRPOD]

That’s a great place to be man (at least according to Jared and I) haha

[@shooter2843]

I’ve shot Grizztricks since they’ve been on the market. Every trail is amazing. My partners kill zone trails are considerably less.

[@Bullbluegill]

Everyone has their own opinions, but it's funny to watch a guy sit there and tell those 2 guys that is 470 grain arrows with a flapper is gonna penetrate anything. COMICAL. listen and learn young fella. If you can't get a deer to kill with in 25 yards....it's NOT your arrow setup. Another Note, if you need blood to find a deer, you haven't killed enough. a well hit deer doesn't make it 80 yards. Also, people that shoot heavy arrows put the arrow where it needs to be. They don't sacrifice arrow placement for fear of hitting a bone. Think about it....

[@HUNTRPOD]

I assume you've never made a bad shot...

[@sinepari9160]

That's why I love ironwill field points.. they have this massive lump on the head that provides the same drag as a BH. Hard on my targets but it works! They do pull out easier than a BH of course. I think the moral of this story is that if you're shooting under 40 yards (most southern and east whitetail hunters), mechanicals work fine. And most shots, even out here in the west (contrary to what you hear) are 40-60. My problem is with mech BH's you never know. You ALWAYS know with a fixed head it will penetrate at any range.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Good input!

[@bjonesy]

The bump is not creating even nearly the same amount or kind of drag as a fixed blade broadhead will. The bump is there to make it easier to remove the points from targets. That’s it.

[@caseyhepler2806]

Which broadheads have the best bone splitting tips to go with best blade steel

[@HUNTRPOD]

I stand by NOT shooting at bone with an arrow. There are plenty of sweet spots without risking a bad hit on bone

[@ryanp5413]

Can you have Kevin brittinham and Troy fowler on at the same time? Kind of Same idea between bullet and arrow

[@easternoutdoorsman2521]

Great stuff everyone. Shooting 70# 30" draw with black eagle rampage 300 spine 100 grain FOCOS 125 go montec. 524 total weight 19% FOC. Shoots great out to 50. I don't shoot farther.

[@andyzumwalt3632]

Something alot of folks forget that if arrow doesn't fly straight you increase drag coefficients.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Yessss they also told think about that at all

[@rayestrada5195]

Trying to buy arrows but can't believe what I'm sold. Hope you can get a company going. Would like to see you use a 3 degree helical broadhead with a 3 degree feather fletch both right.

[@radamrussell]

I've bought into a lot of Troy's view of arrow/broadhead setups and landed on 505gr to 530gr with cut on contact broadheads (125gr or 150gr Magnus, Ozcut, Cuttthroat, so far) that fly great and that I sharpen the shit out of. My goal, my buy in to the theory, mainly based around a mistake or the deer moving, especially hitting the scapula or shoulder bone, is sending a projectile with the highest percentage of lethality toward the animal. What he says makes a lot of sense to my brain.

[@HUNTRPOD]

It sure makes sense from physics and to get a pass thru, that said we aren’t ready to sacrifice speed and cut for blood. There’s a happy medium there I think

[@radamrussell]

@@HUNTRPOD I am still getting 254 fps with the 505gr - 65lb, 29.5" draw, 80% let off. I just know too many guys who have lost deer with mechanicals and any centerfire caliber under .270. There is a parallel there that I just couldn't ignore.

[@davidholliday3286]

@@HUNTRPOD Dude, you can't beat them.

[@Oregon-airguns]

Example from a pcp (airgun) hunter. A .25gr pellet leaves my barrel at 900fps and at 100 yards it’s slowed down to 700fps A 40 grain slugs leaves my barrel at 900fps and is still going 850fps Arrows are no different, obviously there’s laws of diminishing returns. But ballistic coefficient sets next to accuracy on the throne.

[@curburenthusiasm6457]

will yall be at the great american outdoor show. in Harrisburg?

[@HUNTRPOD]

We will make it for at least a day or so!

[@apexpredatoroutdoors8308]

I shoot a 665 grain arrow with a 375 grain tuffhead (300 grain head 75 grain adapter) and aim just to the rear side of the shoulder blade to humerus joint on a broadside shot, and right for the joint on a quartering to. These arrows have no respect for deer bones. The last buck I shot had a NAP kill zone healed between its ribs on a downward angle. My arrow destroyed the humerus, centered the heart and buried into gravel riverbed at least 12 inches.

[@HUNTRPOD]

That’s a heavy hitter

[@apexpredatoroutdoors8308]

@@HUNTRPOD the necropsy is on my channel.

[@tradrodsandcustoms]

I disagree on hitting the liver the vest bet is expandable and big hole. I had a crap shot on my deer last year, hit liver, 585 gr, 19% foc, 200 gr iron will single bevel....that deers liver had an entry and an exit and he died in mid bound less than 100 yds. That arrow turned the chest cavity of my deer this year into a smoothie... looked like a gunshot inside. Single bevels, high foc, let the test kit show you what flies best, i did. Epic

[@forgerat]

I’d be willing to bet the time spent on all this would be 100% better spent on learning to shoot your bow really well with a pre fletched shop assembled quality arrow.

[@JH-hx2cl]

Youd loose that bet.

[@forgerat]

John Dudley disagrees with you

[@JH-hx2cl]

@@forgerat Physics doesnt. When youre shooting a target that moves with inefficient arrows, it doesnt matter how good you think you are, bad things happen. When youre using an arrow that can handle bone efficently everything changes. You'll never be as good as JD or LM, youre just an average joe like the rest of us, youre not a 6,5" elite professional with sponsers out the ass. Youre Jerry, the car mechanic. Keep chasing the carrot tho.

[@ad-archw1582]

Great stuff!!!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks for the listen!

[@billrehmeyer5795]

Love the variety boys.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Thanks Bill!

[@larrytellman3490]

The technical forum is a great idea and would love to see it get going. I'm totally in. Even if i needed to subscribe to the database of research. I worry that the big money product manufacturers will not support it without the customers demanding the rigor of defending their advertising claims.

[@HUNTRPOD]

Agree! Would be an awesome things. Hell maybe we will start it haha

[@davidholliday3286]

Great comment here. Guys like Ranch and Rocket man are going up against the marketing machine. Some of their worst detractors have industry ties and vigorously defend them and sometimes to the detriment to the end users. When money is involved, things get messy.

[@african7498]

Lets compare 3 arrows 370gr at 299fps, 444gr at 275 fps and 566 gr at 246fps. At 20m, 40m and 60m the heavy arrow measured about 40fps slower than the lightest arrow at each of those distances - 15% slower than the lightest arrow at each distance. The kinetic energy (a bad metric) is about only 10% higher with the heavy arrow at slower speed. The momentum (a better metric) is about 30% higher for the heavy arrow compared to the light arrow at these distances. Out to 40m the 444gr will take 0.03 seconds and the heavy arrow 0.06 (6 hundreth's of a second) of a second longer/slower - for much more - a third more momentum = penetration. This is based on measured actual speeds. Kinetic energy that squares the fps is a sales gimmic - old news in rifles. I think 550gr is a good trade off for me. A pass thru will probably give better blood trail. As for arrow drop - the light arrow drops 80 inches (6ft) at 60m while the 560 grainer drops 112 inches (9 ft) - high risk shots for both arrows - especially when the live target can move. (according to ballistic calc)

[@mikekupetsky6879]

This is exactly the same phenomenon will call it that happens with rifle bullet the faster they come out of the muzzle the faster they slow down so theoretically you could take a 22- 250 coming out at 3800 fps and a 6.5 Creedmoor coming-out at 2700 fps and at some point the slower round will catch the faster one

[@JS-ji5bl]

Ok I been shooting on the lighter side on my arrows , I only hunt Deer by the way but been shooting kinda light arrows with 50 grain insert with 100gr heads my Bows are all 60 pounds 2 Hoyt carbon turbos and a elite Ritual 35 I been using 350 spine and a lot of people been telling me to use a 400 spine do yall think I should go with a 400 spine with my set up or stay with 340 / 350..

[@HUNTRPOD]

Hey JS, no I'd stay where you're at. If anything I'd rather be oversized than underspined

[@JS-ji5bl]

Ok I was thinking the same but I figured I'd ask you guys... Thank you

[@robertmanore9797]

Lay out the science give them the math.Step by step teaching for consistency of arrow flight.My rx 7 defeats everything at eighty pounds! Why waste your breath ? Some guys just can't get over that cool factor at a young age.

[@royhoglund1322]

What about the Valkyrie Deathswitch expandable broadhead that comes in 180gr and 200gr? Great podcast!

[@HUNTRPOD]

Not sure we’ve seen this, we will check it out

[@aaronshorter864]

Loving the podcasts. On the drag of the broad-head can you use a heavier field point to get close to same drop at distance to get a good feel and not have to resite every time you go from practice to hunting?

[@HUNTRPOD]

I think the shape of the field point would still have less drag but I’m Not the physicist lol

[@aaronshorter864]

Looks like a new target is in my future.