Rando Rant - Silent Hill 2 Remake is a bit of a mixed bag

[@Mr.Praetor]

The biggest thing I noticed between the cutscenes is that they changed diologue. And I can't really understand why. It does not seem to improve the scene, just puts their creative fingerprints on 90% of someone elses work

[@Soubifloof]

I hate how the go to counter on "well the original wasn't combat focused" is some odd interview that seems to suggest a focus on it simply because accuracy and kill count is tracked in the ending screen...?

[@biggiecheese726]

It wasn’t the focus of the original RE2, but Capcom sure as shit made REmake2’s combat more interesting with the added dimension of control

[@Boots43096]

​yeah but avoiding combat is still viable to a degree in re2make​@@biggiecheese726

[@DoktorSammich]

@@biggiecheese726Zactly, RE2make really tightened up the combat and made bobbing and weaving zombies with slow walk, incap shots, and equipment it’s own effective and stylish system that was fun to master.

[@biggiecheese726]

@@DoktorSammich yep. Each character had unique weapons which did different things and let you play differently too. The shotgun was good for head shotting, but the grenade launcher was good for lickers and large groups, which Leon couldn’t do as easily.

[@jesusdavid3473]

@@biggiecheese726 and yet avoiding enemies was still a better option in a good part of the game, specially on hardcore difficulty. I can´t say the same about SH2R out of the street parts.

[@CommanderZx2]

The dialogue for the characters is so monotone in the remake.

[@329link]

That's a really interesting critique to see, given the original is known (and sometimes praised) for its rather uncanny acting. And just so we're clear, I'm being serious when I say "interesting". I don't have any attachment to SH2 or the remake, so I'm not trying to start some argument with that stupid sarcastic way twitter says "interesting".

[@dean_l33]

@@Soubifloof Oh I take it that you've played the original sh2

[@ClassicSteve]

I feel James' voice actor is much better but Maria's is worse.

[@CommanderZx2]

@@ClassicSteve Yeah, James voice actor is alright. But the actresses for the female characters just sound flat.

[@ClassicSteve]

I've watched a few streams and the game seems so action heavy. Sometimes there are 30 min stretches of nothing but fighting enemies, no cut scenes, no puzzles. That puts me off wanting to play this.

[@revolversnake126]

the flaming staircase scene still gets me every time. absolute kino.

[@canaldecasta]

Future Metal has control over the past but all he does is edit videos instead of warning us about disasters or lottery numbers. What a gumbo.

[@GalacticArchive0]

Regarding the comparison of clips, specifically the meeting in the cell, it feels like James' actor in the remake had much better direction than the original, but the same cannot be said for Maria. In the original Silent Hill 2, she seems much more genuine despite the sinister implications of her dialogue, which combined with some of the camera angles of the cutscene, works to create a strong sense of unease, like that of a bad dream where things aren't *quite* right. In the remake, she isn't reacting correctly to James' questioning (in the original she seems to acknowledge his panic, but treats it like a joke), which kind of immediately removes any way you could be drawn in alongside James. She is acting too alien, while in the original she was behaving like a human for the most part. The direction of the remake's cutscene also just isn't very good. None of the camera angles or filters do enough to create that sense of uncertainty. The shot from James' POV especially is a downgrade from the original, since the blurry screen made everything seem much more realistic, which makes staring down Maria much more intimate and disturbing. With the stairway scene, there are several major differences that I do not like, but the biggest one of them all is the positioning of the characters themselves. In the original, Angela towers above James (somewhat helped by the fact the steps are larger and steeper than they are in the remake), which creates a power imbalance within the scene. It also creates some really uncomfortable camera angles that you rarely if ever see. However in the original, Angela is either at eye level or sitting down in such a way that James is instead above her. It completely changes the "feel" of the scene and the dialogue being spoken. Also the fire gifs look like ass. I have my issues with the Silent Hill games, especially the story, but I can appreciate the originals for taking full advantage of the technology they had to create an arguably timeless experience.

[@vertigo3307]

Im glad someone else noticed that the prison scene was off with maria. In the OG she seems completely indistinguishable from Mary. She acts concerned but she has a warmness about her which Maria does not have. Until the Maria personality comes back out. But in this she is confrontational, almost mockingly so. You can even see it in the way she is sitting in the chair. In the OG she is sitting very properly. Back straight, knees together, hands on legs, prim. A wonderful contrast from her outfit and the environment. But shes like leaning back in the chair in the remake, a power position. So odd

[@CommanderZx2]

I think people's nostalgia for the original, without having actually played it in years, is making them overly positive over this remake.

[@blackdragoncyrus]

I played it just last year, so you can't really make that argument.

[@bazzy5644]

That doesn't fly. I played the thing to completion starting last week and finishing it yesterday. It has nothing to do with nostalgia! The remake is simply directed by incompetent amateurs, that is the only explanation. It's not just voice direction but also cinematography which is way worse in the remake.

[@xelpad2379]

@@bazzy5644 I think you failed the reading comprehension test. The OP is saying that people who like the Remake haven't played the original game in years, so they get nostalgic and enjoy it, not noticing the downgrade

[@lucienwolf5353]

I don't know how true that is. It's been a few years since I played the OG and I was sceptical about the remake. Now as it happens I watched someone stream the remake who had seen just a bit of the OG and was hyped for the remake and after finishing the game looked at the OG read of the letter on recommendation of a couple viewers and he agreed the OG was so much better despite never having played up to that point.

[@bazzy5644]

@@xelpad2379 I think it's the other way around. Op implying "without having actually played it in years" is pretty surely refering to re-playing the game not playing it the first time.

[@kevo-o-o]

I think a lot of issues in the game could be lessened by cutting down the length of the game. I've noticed that it seems to be much longer than the original

[@bazzy5644]

Only the gameplay ones, yeah. A shame these are by far not the worst of it's problems.

[@goingferalluvs]

Much longer and adding enemies to make it longer which...adds nothing since the monsters have a symbolism meaning.

[@kevo-o-o]

@bazzy5644 what would you say are the worst of the games problems? I know that they censored Pyramid Heads introduction cutscene, which while a small change is a huge disappointment.

[@kevo-o-o]

@goingferalluvs AAA games seem to be terrified of games being considered short, and they incorrectly think padding is a way to fix that. Fighting the same 5 enemies might work in 6 hour game. But when a game gets into the double digits the lack of enemy variety can be a death sentence

[@bazzy5644]

@@kevo-o-o Butchering the story. The og had a very limited focus on the combat and the remake reversed that. As a result they went so sloppy on the story this thing can pretty much only be played for the combat now.

[@EFAPHighlights]

Bloober is like AIDS. Nobody likes it, but we can't figure out how to make it go away.

[@TheLoneGamr]

Considering how well the remake is selling a lot of people disagree with you.

[@slartibartfast5861]

Already had my doubts when they left out some of the key figures of Team Silent. Won't be bothering with this bloated game.

[@EFAPHighlights]

​@@TheLoneGamr I'll eat both my shoes if you can find a single person who bought it because Bloober made it and not because it had the same name as a game everyone already likes.

[@manganimesYT]

gotta be honest, for a moment, i completely forgot that metal is on efap oftem. so when checking the comments and seeing this , i had a brief moment of "oh, efap iis over here wtf"... then i remembered and elt so stupid... haha

[@Adorni]

Okay, so. The Maria scene. Graphics-wise, it’s good? It looks good. Composition-wise? It doesn’t work compared to the original, here’s why: Film theory nerds will tell you there’s “no right way” to film a scene, which is technically true, but there _are_ better and worse ways to film a scene, depending on what you want to do with it. In the original game, Maria is kept at a distance from the camera, indicating a degree of uncertainty with regards to her, until we switch to James’ POV. She’s center frame, the object of focus, but the camera itself is fuzzy, and the lighting is harsh, casting her eyes in particular in deep shadows, hiding them. It’s a _great_ scene, composition wise. The remake’s scene is flat without as much contrast, the frame isn’t blurry, and Maria’s eyes are _always_ visible, the camera even pulling in close to her face before the noteworthy dialogue. Credit where it’s due, casting James in really heavy shadows was a good call, as it denotes his uncertainty and doubt about everything going on- he’s _literally_ in the dark, in other words. But Maria’s lighting being so bland is not good.

[@yumyumeatemup]

The voice direction in OG SH2 versus the remake to me seems like an inverse of one and other. With OG SH2, the Japanese director and producer heads, probably had exactly the kind of idea in their minds of what they were going for with the dead pan deliveries of most characters within the town as they had been trapped there far longer than James had and all had succumbed to madness from the torment they had been subjected to by the town itself. However, i dont necessarily think they had the talent pool of VAs to pull it off with people like James and Angela. Its disjointedness could be part of the bizarre nature of Silent Hill sure enough, but at the same time that doesnt excuse the poor work of James' VA. His character only just came to Silent Hill and and while he certainly may be confused, the VA voicing him simply lacked the conviction of the character's depression and desperation to find Mary. Dude couldn't deliver a line of dialogue without it sounding like he was reading off of a grocery list LMAO. At the same time, with Bloober SH2 remake, they had money and access to a large talent pool that comes from such a dominating gargantuan industry that is the modern gaming entertainment medium, but then had ZERO clue as to how the characters should act and behave, thus the VA Director totally let the talent down. Angela in her final moments is a great example of this. Remember she's supposed to be a teenager, but they just have her go "middle aged woman" in her final moments (Which is probably close to the age her VA actually is). Her voice becomes deep and haughty, nothing like her earlier sounding self when we stumble upon her in the graveyard, or when she has her mental break down in the apartment complex. Rather than a young adult girl at the end of her rope, she sounds like a disappointed house wife...its completely off and doesnt fit at all. Maria also lacks any sex appeal, flirtatiousness, or desire to be with James as "his Mary" and this was probably 100% on purpose given how toned down the character is over all, completely misunderstanding the entire point of the character.

[@nhagan001]

They sure did market this game on that Maria character. Had her all over Twitch Ads.

[@TheGruspastej]

You should cover the "stop killing games" movement and, specifically, the associated "european citizens initiative" that is currently ongoing. It is an effort to stop planned obsolecence in video games, meaning publishers can't just kill games you have paid money for. It is an actual effort to change things and remove an awful aspect of the anti-consumer games industry rather than just yelling about it to the void.

[@countD8852]

Metal was playing Silent Hill 2 in "Stupid American Tourist Mode", clearly Now that they're all out, I really hope there can be a big, long talk about the 4 horsemen of the horror remakes either on The Forge or EFAP or both: Silent Hill 2, Dead Space, Resident Evil 4, and Alone in the Dark.

[@qZbGmYjS4QusYqv5]

Bigot! He played in "Stupid German Tourist Mode". He was very upset that he couldn't find any Octoberfest bars in SH 😆🤣😂

[@thedoomofsodan5163]

Hold your beer, does Alone in the Dark Remake even deserve to be talked about? I couldnt even play it for an hour, until the only thing keeping me awake where the terrible stutter UE4-shit.

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

So how does it rate on the Gollumlike scsle?

[@yetanotherspuart3993]

A Sneem out of Schlurpo!

[@stephenlanuto5993]

Why do Angela and James look like David Duchovny?

[@bazzy5644]

Ask Bloober and their Consultency firm they hired for this remake.

[@ashes180-x7d]

> "I don't want to get in to culture war stuff but why did they change Maria's model" May as well ask people to tell you the reason but purposely not give you the actual answer.

[@Boots43096]

i hate how the remake uses music more aggressively in cutscenes. Like if a scene is supposed to be creepy they have obvious spooky music playing in the background, where og let the scenes build tension without relying on music, or if there WAS music it was more underplayed. Compare the silence in Eddies first rant scene to remake for instance. The mirror intro feels very self indulgent of the devs too. I get it's a remake of the fan favorite lmao don't have this dramatic music building and blaring before james says "mary are you really in this town?" Felt like some e3 trailer reveal shit. You can practically hear consoomers clapping at the end of that line. Also the new james is alright but i hate how he sounds tired the whole game. It feels like a pretty one note performance where guy cihi's james felt more natural

[@GalacticArchive0]

That is an excellent point. With the right direction, a lack of music can make a scene so much more dramatic and impactful. In the case of the original Silent Hill 2, it helps each line of dialogue hit with so much more weight. What's more, the player is much more likely to remember what exactly was said with fewer distractions.

[@jacksondavis9442]

Bro, the same music is playing in the original opening. The music has some new instrumentation mixed in. That's all. It's not blaring compared to the original. It's actually a bit more nuanced and adds a layer of emotion on top of the eerieness of the original track. That being said, I can't really say the same for most of the remake's soundtrack. I appreciate a lot of the work Akira Yamaoka did for the new soundtrack, but not only are a lot of the remixed/rearranged tracks inferior to the original ones, there are key tracks that have been completely removed. As for the brand new music that accompanies much of the new content, I don't have many complaints. The music is still mostly very high quality for the most part, but the vibe and the atmosphere is overall very different. OG Silent Hill 2 to this day has one of the most original OSTs for something in the horror genre. As much as they tried at times, this new one just doesn't come close. And god... the new renditions of the credits tracks are just absolutely butchered. They sound like fan covers. Not terrible in isolation, but awful compared to their original counterparts. Especially hurts knowing they came from the same man.

[@michaeleddy4101]

hey Moooooooootal! play 9 Sols. I really want to see your take on it. Sekiro-esque 2d game like hollow Knight but better combat EDIT: It has 3 of the best bosses I've fought in any game in the last few years

[@bazzy5644]

Currently playing SH 3 and oh boy does that game have similar problems to this remake. It's far too heavy on very simplistic combat and swamps you in enemies you can most of the time not avoid.

[@TomWaiting-b9b]

There was noise on the hill 0/10

[@canaldecasta]

Can't have it all. Next time, maybe...

[@bazzy5644]

Hopefully not! Bloober blew it, imo. They should not be given the SH ip to butcher another game.

[@Boots43096]

i like how the remake adds more content, makes it more different from og so you're not just going through the same exact areas

[@bazzy5644]

I still can not fathom how bad pretty much every line delivery in the remake is by direct comparison. What in the hell happend?!

[@W00JDA]

Back in the day people complained about og dubbing, now its the opposite. What happened?

[@W00JDA]

You talked about abstract daddy being repetetive but how does that compare in your opinion to having a boss in one small room and making you run around it like in the original? How interesting was it to fight a pyramid head in the small clunky stairwell instead of open space with crates? Every bossfight is just better, even if not up to the level of many other games it's still an improvement over the original. I think you and many other fans are just being stubborn.

[@bazzy5644]

I can agree on that. But is this improvement worth the story in a story centric game being mangeled and butcherd over? I very much disagree.

[@Boots43096]

i love your rants

[@I_TheLandlord]

Excuse me but you’re wrong my dad said so

[@biggiecheese726]

I haven’t played this game at all, but based on the little you’ve said, this reminds me of RE2 and how fantastic that game is in adapting something and making it brand new

[@ReaLMoisan]

I think the voice acting is significantly better in the remake. More realistic inflection, emphasis, pronunciation, and flow. The original is very flat and stilted. The remake also utilized their better graphic fidelity to give characters realistic expressions. They also emphasized expressive eye contact and movement.

[@jacksondavis9442]

While I mostly agree with you, I think Maria's new actor in particular misunderstood the character and thus gave some pretty awful deliveries at times. When she does it right, she is really good, but when she misses... oof. And sadly I think most of the new cast starts to falter toward the end of the game. I think they start to sound bored and monotone in scenes where they should be at the peak of their emotion (e.i. James' final scene with Mary.) At the very least, the facial capture and cinematography gets lazy toward the end. I actually like the exchange between James and Angela in the end a bit more than the original, except for some weird bored deliveries from Angela, but god is their lip sync, facial expressions, and eye contact practically lifeless in that scene. Also, the removal of some dialogue and shots from important scenes feels really cowardly by Bloober. In particular I hate how they removed the shot of James kissing Mary before smothering her. It's like they couldn't trust the audience to understand the nuance of the storytelling in that scene so they just removed it. Also James reaction to remembering what really happened was very underwhelming. Another great example of how, toward the end, the characters become a bit lifeless in key scenes. The most charitable reason I can think of for why those scenes turned out like that was because they started rushing everything development-wise toward the end of the game.

[@bazzy5644]

Tell me you never played the original game without tellling me you never did, the comment.

[@jacksondavis9442]

@bazzy5644 Can't speak for OP, but I played the original right before playing the remake. As I was born in 2001, I did not play it back when it came out. As much as I appreciate the original (it has probably become my second favorite horror game, right behind Soma) I think nostalgia is really blinding people who think the remake doesn't improve upon on some things. Don't get me wrong. After completing the game last night, I am very mixed on it. In fact, I think they competely fumbled the ending. At least the "Leave" ending, as that's what I got. Just so many emotional payoffs thaylt were completely missed, unlike the original. So yeah, I'm not saying the remake is superior. It ain't that simple. They both have strengths and weaknesses. Like puzzles aside, I don't see how one can say the game mechanics are superior to the remake. It has problems, no doubt, but at least the combat is actually fun to engage with and not something I actively avoid in every situation possible.

[@TheLoneGamr]

Disagree. Game is amazing.

[@jacksondavis9442]

I don't know how more people haven't realized this. You can even see it in BTS videos for the remake. Just like Dead Space remake, they use the faces of the actors for the characters models. The actors both voiced and did performance capture for the characters. To preserve all of that data they chose to keep their faces almost 1:1 to the actors. Maria and Angela weren't uglified, they look like the real people who are playing them. Same with James. Not saying Mootal did, but idk why people in general get so worked up about this when this is an actual explanantion that is rather easy to find. There is absolutely a movement within the western games industry to make female characters less attractive but this isn't one of them. Choose targets accurately. I have a lot of problems with this remake, but character design is not one of them.