RANGE ROVER or DISCOVERY - That is the question - L405 LR3 LR4 / S5-Ep5

[@christopherterry5831]

I thought we in England were masters of sarcasm, but no the Vera and Christian stand-up have nailed it. Great vid you two :)

[@Cliffordrussellpsyc]

im about to ....well im thinking of get a range rover ...i have a land rover already ,i had and started with a lr2 now i have a lr3,and looking for my next but,we have to pay for all my maintenence lol, wih you was here

[@davidclarke9767]

I was selling one of my MIG welders the man who came to buy it arrived in a Discovery 4 he opened the tailgate and pulled out a tray on runners to load the welder on. Talking to him about your Discovery he told me that he is a fellow fan of yours apparently they are everywhere.

[@Vera_and_Christian]

😅👍👌 We have the drawings for a slide out tray on our Patreon page. 🙋‍♀️

[@angelo-212lb]

8:55 the TDV6 is the best choice…. it breaks the crankshaft once in a while… but it’s still better 😂😂😂

[@v12-s65]

do these V6 motors still have this issue after 2017?

[@98045]

@@v12-s65 yes

[@v12-s65]

@@98045 guess I‘m taking the ingenium inline 6s

[@rafaeloreirorodriguez5278]

With a few mods that crankshaft won’t break ever.

[@rokasguzevicius2473]

@@rafaeloreirorodriguez5278what is the solution?

[@jaguarxjsocd]

Oh no! Please don't sell the L405 for ages, I just bought the same car and found your channel and felt relieved knowing you will show me how to fix anything over the next few years! Note, snow is not English weather, grey drizzle and brown slush is.

[@Vera_and_Christian]

It's not going anywhere in the next time.😃👍🙋‍♀

[@doneB830]

Tell Robin to start a KZbin channel, I love that work.

[@davidfuters7152]

Guys , Iv now finished watching your video and noticed you don’t use the winter wiper park function If you don’t know what it is , go into your menu into vehicle set up and you scroll down until you find winter wiper park press ok Your wiper will go through one sweep and stop before it reaches it normal resting height , this leaves the wiper sitting on the heated window elements, which means when you switch on the heated window function it defrost your wipers too so you don’t have to rip them off the frozen window potential damaging them I’m sure your 2014 disco and the Queen will have this as Iv got it on my 2014 Freelander 2 👍👍👍

[@johnwillett4086]

It does not appear to be a function on my 2016 Discovery 4 Landmark - I just checked the manual. Unless it's the same as the wiper maintenance position for changing the wiper blades???

[@davidfuters7152]

No it says specifically winter wiper park on my menu As far as I know we share most if not all the same basic functions on the 2014 models

[@samrodian919]

The difference is that it's a Range Rover not a Discovery. If the Disco's had the same features as a Range Rover of a similar year, then why would you pay all that extra money just for a Range Rover badge? When you buy a new Range Rover then you are paying for all the extra features it has over the lesser models of Land Rover's line up.

[@sullybiker6520]

"I had to drop the exhaust a little bit" Cut to the entire system on the ground...I love you guys.

[@angelodebuys514]

😂

[@McShoot1970]

A small trick with these stainless sensorfitting is to warm them thoroughly and immediately cool them with a lot of water, it works almost everytime in our workshop. We work on heavy trucks in Norway and unfortunately rust and corrosion is our nemesis :)

[@PillSharks]

My parents live in a 500 plus year old house in the ancient maritime village of Pill, Somerset in England⚓️🦈. There’s a couple of nails just like the one he your son made banged into the oak beams what were originally from a ship as they’ve been tested and have some ships worm in them! He’s a very clever lad.. big respect to him learning a trade like that.

[@Vera_and_Christian]

Square Nails, the shaft, not the head, do not come undone. 👍🙋‍♀

[@Japplesnap]

Spray your door seals with silicone spray once a year before winter and you'll never have frozen doors again. I've been doing this now for 10 years and it works like a charm.

[@tookleleng]

I’m so glad I found someone who’s obsessed with these Land Rovers. I have an LR3 v8, Range Rover Sports, and Range Rover L322 Supercharged. I love these trucks. I do all mechanical and body works as well. Love you guys. I live in NY USA.

[@Vera_and_Christian]

😃👍👌💪🙋‍♀️

[@tonyb8612]

The best LR channel on KZbin. Thanks for sharing the your son's craftmanship and the funny bits on the "Queen". Cheers you two.

[@sheepdogman1]

Absolutely love Vera and Christian there knowledge is 2nd to none

[@OrdinaryJoe12]

The car is not suitable because it doesn't break enough lol, thankyou for the giggles this morning.

[@cjhickspe1399]

That's why they have Fabian. He's good for hundreds of hours of content.

[@tonysmith3182]

Ahh, my favourite Sunday morning entertainment, hope you are both well.

[@jatflash]

Man o man. 41 minutes late. Sunday night and just cleaned the kitchen from dinner. Missed the alert that my Sunday night video is ready. 36 degrees in sydney today and 39 tomorrow. Love watching you guys in jumpers and hats to keep out the cold. 😅

[@gregorystammbuck506]

Maybe, the next project would be a Disco 5 with V6 Diesel? Its a good truck with plenty of room...loving your channel...so much fun to wach it!

[@Vera_and_Christian]

Possible from my side but Vera does not want a D5. Christian

[@hughmarcus1]

The D5 with the V6 is just an SDV6. Christian has already rebuilt one of those.

[@devonsmallholding]

It would be great to have a go at an L322 Range Rover - best RR there has ever been 100%

[@henrysgolds.r.o.6841]

My L322 4.4 Diesel, MY2012 in a very special edition, serviced every 7000km is my dream car.. She has absolutely every extra, done 270k Km and looks like brand new.. She is one of a kind and I will never give her up.. I love her. ❤❤❤

[@Missed_Apex_GT]

I’ve learned a LOT about getaway cars this episode 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🇬🇧👍❤️ love from the UK ❤️

[@happyjohnwalks]

I have an L322 with the 4.4TDV8, it doesn't want to be driven fast either, I call discoverys dirty 80s, they are always flying past at 80mph and absolutely filthy! The warm air distribution isn't the best either but it still has physical buttons and none are sticky! 😂

[@The-Sea-Dragon-1977]

The SDV8 & ZF8HP combination is fantastic and economical in the UK where we have a limit of 70mph but most of us run along about 80mph (130kph). I have no issues with my SDV8 being hesitant, but a lesson I learned while running BMW 530d's was that using Shell Optimax diesel makes a huge difference. Yes it's more expensive but it does eliminate the pick up hesitation.

[@dougwernham5209]

Thanks for the video. Robin’s hand forged nail was fantastic.

[@GaryMartino]

Love all your videos for the same reason most folks here talk about. Down to earth and funny, honesty is the best. I wish you guys were my neighbors, it would certainly be a joy! I am about to purchase a 2019 RR Sport Autobiography V8 from a close friend. Keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't become a mistake. We have owned 5 Jaguars over the past 7 years with all of them being a complete joy and reliable.

[@chesterstorm1]

A good tip i was told and do use is spray silicon on the door rubber seals then in cold weather they dont stick.... do it twice in a winter 🇬🇧

[@hammyh1165]

I use silicone spray on mine too. You need to avoid petroleum based lubes as they can damage the seals.

[@trevorjones8799]

What’s the asl button. Ahhhh speed limiter button. We don’t need that in Germany 🇩🇪. Love that line 👍

[@rhkavli]

I accidentally pressed that button when I drove my car off the dealer the first time, accelerating onto the motorway and was almost hit by the car behind when I "hit the wall" at 60 km/h. I thought I had a catastrophic engine failure. That was the last time I pressed that button.

[@nycxed521]

Finally. A "do it yourself" car channel that is very entertaining. Thank you Vera & Christian, Cheers

[@moobaz8675]

I have a new Defender and still wish I had a D4. They really get under your skin and are the best car LR made. A total do it all car. 👍

[@mvubu6823]

You guys are the best.... Spending my last week with my 2006 DISCO 3 V8 as my primary ride. In 16 years/ 300,000km this V8 hasnt given me no engine problems. Just replaced the water bottle once before an drama started. Yes, all the regular suspension issues, control arms, etc, but otherwise hasn't skipped a beat. Not sure if will I sell it as it is worth nothing on the market. Might give it some very aggressive tread and use it on the dunes as a toy. Lexus LX570 inbound.... I don't have the stomach for LR diesel drama.

[@budge1611]

Kind of glad i went for the last of the L322's, was one of the cars on my dream list, had no major issues with it at all, just do preventative maintenance on it and its all good, getting around 28mpg from the V8 which i consider pretty good, and no stupid touchscreen to access everything, and no sticky buttons either 😂😂

[@Vera_and_Christian]

That is good 👍

[@mdshovel]

Sunday in Winter - no better way to start the day 😀

[@valdisfilks9427]

Before winter comes spray all the rubber seals around the doors, boot and bonnet with silcone spray. This will stop them sticking in cold weather. It will also stop them ripping when you force them open when they are frozen, the weather does not need to be that cold for the doors to stick, it happens in warmer countries like Germany where there is more ice/frost. Tips from Sweden. (I also spray my CV boots and all rubber suspension parts, to prepare for winter. )

[@barhaa01]

You guys are awesome!! Your videos are detailed, real with lots of humour, banter and sarcasm, yet original and fresh!! Love from India:)

[@MarkSpohr]

I am again impressed with your skill and dedication in keeping these extremely complicated pieces of technology running. I can't help but think that EVs are superior since they don't have any of the parts which you spend all of your time fixing.

[@hughmarcus1]

EVs in theory should have much less issues. However, some horror stories are emerging about traction battery failures & the difficulty with those is that they’re well beyond the capabilities of a home mechanic

[@jamesevan-cook5259]

Interesting observations on v8 versus v6. Of course we in USA wish we had the 4.4 diesel option. The pre facelift L405 can turn on heated seats instantly by pushing either of the larger climate buttons and rotate to heat or cool. Hope that helps :)

[@m_atrix]

Hello Viera & Christian, In my humble opinion, the choice is obvious: Discovery 3&4 should remain. Although I must admit that the opportunity to see your new experiences with l405 was quite informative. all the best for you 2 & see you next time

[@thomaskeane429]

Thank you Vera and Christian regards Thomas.

[@kylek2794]

On the heated seat controls - I believe you can just press in on the climate temp dials and then turn them to adjust the seat heaters.

[@jedero8046]

That squeak noise from Vera's lr3 when she turns is a ball joint on the steering arm. I just had the same issue. Very easy with a ball joint press kit

[@rogerstarkey5390]

I have that problem.... But it's me, not the car. (Where are my socks....? 🤔)

[@khalidmurad5879]

Remap to 393BHP and 819Nm. Once done, you will not have to book an appointment at roundabouts anymore. Also change the upper screen to an andriod and lower to the upgraded touch HEVC panel. It will solve your heat seat/massage selection options. Completely different drive and infotainment interface :)

[@chadwicknamasake5859]

very true,the remaping will solve the response time and make it like a sports car in response

[@1959triumph]

I recommend a Discovery 1 petrol v8 as your next project, mine is 30 years old this year and there is always something that needs fixing, but every time I go for a drive it makes me smile 😁

[@A-world-of-My-Own]

A Hammer is one of the most useful tools if used correctly. The application of a controlled force.

[@andykoops3213]

After watching another channel I did a stock check of my hammers - is 12 too many.

[@A-world-of-My-Own]

@@andykoops3213 no tools for the job. All different weights preferably.

[@franksfactorynonsens]

Another great video you two! On your comments about the V6/V8 and low speed responsiveness, I have a 2014 4.4 L405 and my partner has a 2011 L320 with the TDV6. I quite agree with you. Fortunately the L405 suits my driving style as I’m rarely in traffic due to living in deepest Scotland with very little traffic. Love your fix on the gearbox heat shield, I had done the same but with rubbish materials 😂 Just ordered some 5mm rubber! Thank you guys!

[@nickb5391]

So nice seeing Robin making some great things, he is a credit to you both

[@luisdiassilva]

I look forward to see you on the weekend. JLR should be your most important patron as you are their best technicians. Keep up doing the best videos on the brand.

[@daniarkasymkulov9173]

Thanks, makes me feel good about my SDV6. Cheers from Kyrgyzstan!

[@michaelwhyte3995]

Another awesome vid and great winter scenery. Especially since it was 38C in Melbourne last week!

[@Powerer2]

It was an eye opening moment when Christian spoke about the dynamics of the TDV8 compared to the TDV6 in low rpm modes. I also drive my TDV6 a lot in traffic, and I greatly appreciate that it is indeed very responsive and powerful in low rpm. Can we have a deal if my crankshaft breaks that I could ship my car to you from Hungary, you make nice videos of it, I pay all the repairs and everone will be happy? Thank you :-)

[@roversteve53]

You should buy a Range Rover classic you would never run out of content, I've had classics for over 30 years and you always have something to tinker with.

[@jules19671]

I’m toying with getting a recent L405. I have the TDV6 in my Jaguar and it’s a brilliant engine. Fast, smooth and sips fuel in an XF. But everyone says get the V8 in the L405. You’re the first to say the TDV6 is a better choice. They’re cheaper too. I’ll definitely test drive both and look for your concerns as it’d annoy me too. Thanks.

[@johnspear3452]

To avoid doors freezing closed, wipe the seals with silicon grease at the beginning of November, works for me in the UK where it can be raining when you go to bed and freezing when you get up. I've also got to say the ACE system worked really well on the D2, cornered amazingly flat.

[@steyndelport5988]

I have the sdv6 (d4) and sdv8 (l405 white with black roof). The D4 does offroad duty and the L405 road duty. They are not in the same league on road. L405 sharper handling, more power and lower fuel consumption. I love both but for different reasons. Thank you for a great channel

[@peterbullen3347]

Everytime i watch you guys compare vehicles with Disco 3 and 4 it confirms they are just so well designed , i think ill keep my D3 forever.. 2007 and it is soooo smooth at 250,000klms..

[@keithpvt]

Frikkin Awesome show, funny as. Drug dealers 😂😂. But they love the LR Rangie sport... love the content. You smashed it again ❤ love from Australia. Where we don't need snow flake tyres 😂

[@AW-Services]

Another brilliant video packed with facts, valid opinions, and humour

[@Mrtallguy76]

I’ve only recently found your channel and started watching a few videos but already love them. And I now have serious workshop envy !!

[@pwatom22]

Truly excellent. A very useful review and comparison for anyone looking to buy these vehicles. Love your light hearted and interesting personal pieces 😆👍👏.

[@louvendran7273]

To clean the sticky buttons, methylated spirits on a microfibre towel works great.

[@shiftmotorsports9803]

I can't believe this....I watched this video this morning. Just got done driving my LR3 and now it's making the exact same noise from the steering rack. Owned it 2 years and never heard it before. I think you jinxed me

[@Vera_and_Christian]

😅🫣and it‘s a major debacle right now, major debacle🙄😅🙋‍♀️

[@shiftmotorsports9803]

@Vera_and_Christian Oh no! It sounds like the outer tie rod, which is brand new. I'll be changing it again tomorrow, hoping it was just a bad cheap replacement part. Good luck to us all!

[@RATTLER238]

GET IT REMAPPED!! First thing I did to my L405 4.4 SDV8 5 years ago was a stage 1 remap, 400 bhp, 820Nm torque, fuel economy improved (I can now get 40mpg) and that annoying hesitation is gone!! Honestly it transforms the driving experience 👍🏻😎

[@pholland6643]

As much as I hate our 40+C in Perth, Australian. I don't think I would swap it for your -10C.

[@ruscador1]

you two are brilliant many love from hull england i love watching this so good

[@AJB1]

I thought it was just me who doesn't trust a tyre place to jack up my car or take off a wheel... I always take loose wheels in for new tyres! Glad I'm not alone!!

[@antsuh]

Change the climate panel to used one from 2016. I turns on seat heater with the press of a button. You need to clean the cabin radiator with the flow of chemicals through external pump. Check the temperature of the outgoing air from the vents. If the air at the maximum is lower then 60 you need to do the cleaning

[@grotemichael]

Great video - thx for sharing!

[@robertletby9623]

Great content as always! If you swap the climate control panel to one with part number GPLA-18A802-DH you can just push the rotary dial in once and turn it to the right to turn the heated seats on. No need to have to wait for it to come up on the screen then.

[@derJackistweg]

21:08 I can understand your point! Though this is just the software: This is how RR deciced to program torque and more important the ZF 8HP! The 8HP can hold gears or downshift very fast or even NOT upshift too early and so on. From a Sales POV RR approach is exactly correct: You can sell a lot of RR by a reduced fuel consumption (on paper) but you will not sell 1 more car because it get´s faster from a traffic light.

[@rhkavli]

When the engine is cold, I use the paddles to force upshifts (under light load) And also when towing my 1600 kg caravan, I use the paddles a lot. It took almost a year for my gearbox to start behaving as I expected. I guess the combination of the fluid change, resulting in very little friction material present in the oil and the adaption reset, which baselines on new clutches and friction discs really put it out of balance.

[@derJackistweg]

One can program a 8HP - besides what comes out of the box. There are even stand alone tranny controllers, with transbrake and so on. Really wild stuff. But even on a stock tcu a tuner can work wonders.@@rhkavli

[@denniswaish]

For the SDV8, get a throttle remap. From factory it is made for smooth cruise causing you to press hard on throttle for rapid response.

[@louisgranado4861]

I love the affinity that you have for Land Rovers. And your sense of humor you keep up the good work my man Germany seems like a very lovely place. I love your channel louis from Austin Texas. Hope to visit your country in the future. I would love to be on the auto haul, but 😂😂🤣

[@ulrichhertzer3774]

Habe wieder köstlich gelacht Ihr beiden! Weiter so - und lernen tut man als LR-Besitzer auch immer noch was!!

[@mikeboone4425]

Thanks you 2 for such a a funny Sunday morning coffee . Happy Trails

[@mrbates2]

Again, super entertaining even though I'm a Biker and drive a transit van. Love Vera's gifts, what a woman!.

[@Thesobercarper]

Only just found your channel, you guys are great fun and also give great advise and content, all the best to you both

[@desmcdermott6090]

"That's really the only real downside" - Spoken like a true LR enthusiast. Excellent video as always.

[@ege-hoj2918]

Great video, I love it - especially from minute 30:40 when Christian unmasks his inner "Walter White" - then his similar appearance becomes a bit scary...

[@Vera_and_Christian]

😅👍We even have better videos, him impersonating Walter White. 🙋‍♀️

[@derJackistweg]

5:50 cost cutting! A Display is 1 time cost + Software. A button for everything costs money + cabeling + after sales + holding stock etc. So this approach is not only related to RR.

[@shornsparks20005]

Hi guys love your videos as always I have an l405 so I'm really glad that you have got one as it's of great interest in myself I put Goodyear Wranglers on mine they look great and seem to drive lovely keep up the good work

[@alexshapley8331]

Very entertaining. Looking forward to seeing you both next week!

[@laurie9159]

Christian if you have the EGR mapped out you will notice a huge improvement in how the v8 runs, especially down low.

[@Vera_and_Christian]

The EGR is closed at low rpm. It is only open when cruising. Plus the DPF needs the EGR. Christian

[@hughmarcus1]

You’ll have 2 of them on that engine

[@smaaavoll]

Greate video, as usually! Silicone grease is used on rubber gaskets in cars during winter for several reasons. When the temperature drops, especially below freezing, rubber materials can become stiff, hard, and less flexible and give problem open the doors of the car. This can cause seals and gaskets to lose their elasticity and sealing ability. Applying silicone grease to rubber gaskets offers several benefits in cold weather: Flexibility and Elasticity: Silicone grease helps maintain the natural flexibility and elasticity of rubber materials, even in low temperatures. This prevents the gaskets from becoming rigid and cracking. Cold Resistance: Silicone has excellent properties for resisting cold. Applying silicone grease creates a protective layer on the rubber gaskets, helping to prevent them from freezing or losing functionality in low temperatures.Water Repellent Properties: Silicone is waterproof, helping to prevent moisture from penetrating the rubber gaskets. This is especially crucial in winter when snow, ice, and meltwater can cause corrosion and damage to metal and rubber components. Reduction of Wear: Silicone grease provides a smooth surface, reducing friction between the rubber gasket and adjacent surfaces. This can prevent unnecessary wear and extend the life of the gasket. To maintain optimal sealing and functionality of a car's gaskets in winter, it is recommended to regularly use silicone grease. Focus on areas such as door seals, window seals, and other locations where rubber materials are exposed to cold and moisture. This is important on JLR product because they have many rubber gaskets due in doors. Im applying silicone grease on the rubber gaskets two times a year on my Jaguar Ipace and LR Discovery 5 in mountains in Norway, and by this awoiding problems due to door freezing. Both JLR cars are outstanding winter cars. 🙂

[@jamest5149]

The heat windscreen (electric) is a brilliant feature. Works fast.

[@gavinplant8143]

Christian, the correct terminology is effortlessly all one word. ie it accelerates effortlessly. Scnell Queen...

[@frednetherlands887]

The Dutch fanclub went wild when they heard this is about sticky buttons. We would pay extra for that.

[@Vera_and_Christian]

😅👍🙋‍♀️

[@Discoworx]

L322 rangie seems to be getting a lot of votes. I second the idea.

[@hungry4solidtrax]

I’ve watched your channel for quite some time now and revisited this video again and I am shocked at your comments about the lacklustre performance of the 4.4. I have the 2010 L322 with the 4.4V8 and have been over the moon with it in every aspect. Whilst I use a Disco4 for work, the Range Rover is often used when sheer pulling power is required or when we go long distances as she often returns over 40mpg. The RR will out perform the D4 in every aspect, the D4 has the advantage of not being too worried about going on building sites ;)

[@Vera_and_Christian]

The 4.4 has more power indeed but stand next to a D4 3.0 on a light. It will only takeoff faster if you shift to sport and ignore all rules in traffic and floor it. The 3.0 is more responsive. I also find the power of the 4.4 hard to control. It’s like you light a firework. If you hesitate a split second and it loses boost, it takes longer to reach boost again. In regular traffic driving the car is stubborn and slow but maybe you just give it more throttle than I do. Overall I like it too because it just has more power when accelerating. Christian

[@drcemdede]

Loved the video ! Maybe you could consider buying an update kit for the multimedia system. Queen deserves it !!!! You add it in and without loosing the actual system inside you have an android update that can work with AppleCarPlay and Android Carplay.

[@nuclearfishin1185]

From what I've seen you can get a tune done on the v8 and it transforms the way it drives and gives it instant response off idle.. 👍😎

[@Vera_and_Christian]

We do not advice to tune, map, or alter the TDV6/SDV6 in any way or form. 🙋‍♀️

[@user-hg2vo2bk2btoyotaray]

Great video as always 😂 and the comedy first class🤣looking forward to next one 👏. From a Toyota driver 😮❤

[@CharlesTimothy-z1o]

Sunday morning has just got better. Fantastic video,love the content.

[@FinnBorge]

I would love to see the Freelander 2 on your project list. I got one - very pleased with it. Has become my favorit winter car

[@007wolfmann]

Thank you for another great video. White expensive cars with blacked out windows are favoured Yakuza vehicles.....

[@Macktruck50]

hi guys iam Charlie from Pennsylvania you sent me a reply and said you had a uncle from Erie I live in north east pa I just found your channel a few weeks ago and love it I was a diesel mechanic back in the sixties I learned everything from my dad and he was alot like you he always said fix it write the first time love your channel

[@terrybranaghan8251]

Excellent content and am selling my current vehicle and purchasing a 2022 Defender. Tyre wall cracking normally age related. Here in the UK the annual MOT will reference an advisory replacement at 5 to 7 years. Keep up the good work.

[@pabloarris]

This has brightened my day so much,😂 chuckled the whole way through this video ❤

[@euro4by4hr78]

Great content. You two are really funny have to say. Just one observation from me, permanent AWD requires 4 matching tyres, I wouldn't gamble with that. Greetings from Croatia

[@richardh3587]

Think you can activate the heated seats by pressing the temperature knob and then turning to the right

[@woodand]

only just found your channel.. its now my favourite .. great content and you've also reinforced my view that politics and weird languages / accents aside we are all the same.. !

[@johnmunro4952]

13:30 aaaaaah! That's fascinating. I knew there were strict laws about tires but it hadn't occured to me that you could get spot checked by the Fuzz.

[@fredscratchet1355]

I'll take the Skoda Yeti please.

[@paulhopkinson7479]

Hey Christian, great content as always, I’m on my second range Rover, and totally agree with you regarding the drivability, i’ve had mine back to range Rover because it annoys me so much when it keeps gearing down for nothing, when you drop it into sport and use the paddles, you realise it’s not a mechanical issue it’s poor software although Land Rover have introduced a number of updates regarding this , apparently the the gearbox software gets wiped and the new one is installed, I was told it takes about 500 miles to learn your driving style,