Ranking Batman Villains by How Transphobic We Think They'd Be

[@MadMax-de5uh]

Two face would be like “if the coin says heads I’ll accept your pronouns” lmfao

[@CoolusGuyus]

More than two genders flipping his cryptocoin: doge, you’re a male… but bitcoin… you’re a female

[@cartoonishidealism582]

One of his faces is transphobic And it’s not the one you’d expect

[@legendswarble2845]

I think he'd be super chill with binary trans people. He'd see it like flipping a coin but with gender. That said, I think nonbinary people would blow his mind so he would try not to think about them.

[@fafmundo4449]

@@cartoonishidealism582 which one?

[@MuteMar]

I think he'd flip a coin for NB folks and just be ok with plain trans people

[@wetoddedd]

the woker be like: why so queerious

[@GooberBlooper]

God I love this stupid ass brainrot humor. My favorite is probably the one where it's him taking "STUPID" pills saying, "I Must Jonkle!" And the thumbnail of this video is peak too.

[@king_poyo64]

Then proceeds to beatbox.

[@chazzilla8919]

"You wanna know how I got these pronouns?" -Woker

[@JoJoDoe1997]

J-Lest put a Smile on That Face, Darling 😋

[@jinjay354]

“We love in a Cisiety” - The Woker

[@sunbirth4795]

ventriloquist accepts trans people, scarface yells slurs

[@calemr]

@@sunbirth4795 Scarface is based on the classic monster archetype. Of course he'd be steeped in toxic masculinity.

[@HeliatroCipher]

Absolutely

[@stevenwall2010]

@@calemr*mobster?

[@calemr]

@@stevenwall2010 Yes, thank you.

[@TheRealSusieDeltarune]

@@stevenwall2010 **lobster

[@SucreAmygdalum]

Riddler being a "transvestigator" just makes sense in my head

[@windwind3170]

I can imagine Two-face just flipping a coin at the start of the day to decide if he's feeling transphobic today.

[@AlriikLives]

Hrm. Trans rights, or Trans wrongs? *Flips coins.* Trans wrongs.

[@intensestare5027]

nah he flips the coin to assign your gender, even if you're a cis person he doesnt care, only the coin decides

[@Simply_Bintang]

​@@AlriikLives Gosh that ain't supposed to be that funny and yet I'm laughing my ass for 20 minutes straight

[@goopdoodle]

There's a caveat about Joker. Joker will not stand for bigotry *unless he thinks its funny*. Joker doesn't strike me as particularly ableist but he does cripple and mock Barbara Gordon. If he found out one Batman's friends was trans and wanted to hurt his toxic yaoi obsession, he would absolutely torture them in a very brutal and transphobic way, as well as mocking them along the way. He's evil. He definitely isn't principled enough to restrain from tormenting queer people.

[@PhoenixFire2]

Joker would despise the attack helicopter jokes not because he's pro-trans but because he thinks it's outplayed and no longer funny

[@slashercat8649]

I think he also does have standards (not in the moral way where he has some lines he won't cross) but in a professional way. Like he might just see that as a lazy joke and since he thinks super highly of himself he wouldn't perform such low tier comedy

[@leithaziz2716]

TLDR, if the joke is low-hanging fruit, he'd hate it out of principle of comedy.

[@gaminganimators7000]

Absolutely, I think he would also be the type to mix and match political ideologies if it means getting someone to help him

[@kul2130]

Lego Batman Joker is omnigay demiboy 100%.

[@unclefrunkus5538]

Professor Pyg out here giving me the worst top surgery ever 😭

[@june9914]

BUT Would they give the worst top as well

[@christopherearth9714]

​@@june9914 Prof. Pyg would give insane top

[@phoenixpoole7667]

“Bruh, look at my surgeon, I’m gon die 💀💀💀”

[@KnucklesxReala911]

He is gonna give you even bigger boobs just for asking or leave you with the biggest hole in the chest while keeping you alive

[@gusboll1325]

Gets scars that look like an X for some reason

[@donniejefferson9554]

Riddler is absolutely transphopic. It's not because he's particularly hateful, it's because he doesn't "get it" and since he considers himself the smartest person in existence, anything he doesn't understand must be stupid and fake. He's definitely leaving reddit comments about how dumb he thinks being trans is.

[@edwardjacobus6986]

I mean he's dealt with harder conundrums than gender dysphoria I think he'd be fine with it but mostly be proud that he understands it, like how he'd understand a riddle

[@HadeTheReal]

He would consider them delusional and therefore stupid

[@nicholaspearce2250]

So smart and yet so slow all the same.

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

Yeah, I can see that. The major irony of Riddler's character is that he himself hates riddles he can't solve. That said, he ALSO hates leaving a riddle unsolved, so I could see him researching the neuroscience behind transness out of a need to understand, and accepting the data he finds. ...and then he'd start explaining the trans experience to trans people.

[@getschwifty5537]

​@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth lol he becomes the most annoying ally?

[@cartoonishidealism582]

Would this make Joker a TIRM Trans-Inclusive Radical Misogynist

[@_chew_]

"Oh, you're a woman now? Cool. Make me a sandwich."

[@SpiralSine6]

~ A Better Way to Hate🎶

[@halfmettlealchemist8076]

DUDES ROCK

[@conwool2609]

JOIN THE WINNING TEAM

[@hannahfanning9585]

Hilarious interpretation of the Joker, I love it

[@amberreed5324]

24:21 Trans person: "I'm trans" Firefly: "No, you're kindling" Transphobe: "Ha, I'm right!" Firefly: "No, you're kindling"

[@stupendoushorrendous8258]

🤣

[@Vivigreeny25]

Fun fact about the F slur btw, it just means a bundle of sticks, because a bundle of sticks is used to light fires, and I assume that in the west a few hundred years ago, if people thought you were gay you got burned. So. I mean. Kindling isn’t too far off?

[@zachariahmerry2396]

@@Vivigreeny25 Another fun fact! Fascist is pretty much just the f-slur in Italian!

[@galaxycamerata]

I love the conclusion of The Riddler being transphobic in the sense that when he says 'I can always tell' he's not saying it to justify excluding anyone from anything, he's saying it because he's just a dick who thinks people with deeper histories are just fun puzzles to solve. He's still okay with you going to whatever bathroom you want, he just wants you to know he had you figured out.

[@mikaroni_and_cheez]

Riddler is the type to try and "crack" completely cis people's eggs as a puzzle.

[@Numbabu]

@@mikaroni_and_cheez​​⁠​⁠getting transgenderized by the riddler and totally not falling for it and being confident in your identity and not seeing him again. but like a decade later you’re going to the pharmacy to pick up your hormones. You haven’t thought about it in years, just an awkward step in your awakening that you never think about, but as you walk away the bag they handed you feels a little heavy so you open it up and there’s a stupid little green question mark. You could stop to consider if he somehow tricked you into this, or if he could just tell all along somehow, but you don’t feel like it so you throw it directly in the trash and continue on with your day.

[@rockassassin64]

I kind of hate it because I really like the Ridler but I do agree.

[@ellie8272]

​@@mikaroni_and_cheezShit wait I do that

[@bionodroid547]

the best villains you love because they’re so easy to hate

[@CoolusGuyus]

Killer croc and bane are most trans accepting (bc killer croc has been called a freak, monster, crime against god, and outcast while bane heavily promotes taking testosterone)

[@cheeseburger12]

Do you thinking baseball players that juiced in the 90s are more trans accepting than a random person? My wild guess would be no. I don't think steroid taking for performance relates to gender changing. Admittedly, I do not know a single baseball players stance on trans, so that is an unscientific estimate of a subset of competitive males form the late 90s.

[@CoolusGuyus]

@@cheeseburger12 i dont think you can compare a 8ft tall 7ft wide man who broke batman’s spine and is one of the strongest non-metahuman people on the planet to a juicing 90s baseball player

[@cheeseburger12]

@CoolusGuyus I don't think you can compare people using steroids to get stronger and people thst use steroids to change genders. I do think people that take steroids together stronger at sports have more in common with people that take steroids to get stronger for other reasons then changing gender. Unless you think people that use steroids to change gender have more in common with a 7 foot tall super criminal that tries to kill a giant Bat.

[@idonotresidehere.5709]

@@CoolusGuyus no but the point still stands that he could easily have a "it's cool when i take horomones but not when trans ppl do it" attitude that a lot of gymbros on juice do

[@moshymosh]

Riiiight.

[@DaughterOfDrakes]

Pyg would be like 'oh you're a woman, yes you will make a beautiful doll' but in a way where like. He thinks you need to get surgery to be 'really' trans.

[@DaughterOfDrakes]

upon further consideration: thoughts on a headcanon where Pyg is transfem but in denial? The obsession with creating 'perfect' feminine forms could be argued to be redirected personal desires, and Pyg definitely has plenty of trauma that could lead to that kind of denial, in my non-expert opinion.

[@hannahfanning9585]

​@@DaughterOfDrakesoh that's fascinating

[@loadeddice4696]

Transmedicalist Pyg

[@groetaer]

9:07 clayface actually has some trans moments in the harley quinn show, initially because they actually needed him to transform into a girl, but then he got too much into the character, there he also says he identify as ''fluid'', so himself is technically genderfluid, and there's also a bunch of queer subtext in his btas incarnation

[@breezeshooter42]

BTAS is kinda gay as hell and it's weird that doesn't get talked about more. Not just the villains either.

[@creed8712]

What about the like 4 other Clayface?

[@notsmrt4521]

Also he has a daughter made out of his own body which he initially made to sneak into a private school to get revenge on a play director (until she betrayed him)

[@groetaer]

@notsmrt4521 katherine karlo, yeah? or was it the other one? he does this at least 3 times, 2 in the comics and one in btas

[@oliverthegorgon5281]

hes also fluid bc hes clay and theres water in clay harharharhar

[@Icedsobaka]

Professor Pyg and Hugo Strange wouldn't be transphobic simply because deconstructing humans is their speciality, Professor Pyg would be fascinated by the physical side of transition and Hugo would be fascinated by the psychological side of transition There should be a row of "Accepts Trans people maliciously" For villains who belive in transexuality but that don't mean they're inherently positive towards it

[@Icedsobaka]

And I don't believe Bane and Deadshot would be in the kills transphobes row simply because they don't care enough about this sort of stuff, But Mad Hatter tho, He should be in JK Rowling row

[@WelloBello]

Agreed, Scarecrow too. Man would have a field day with body dysphoria. He’d be on board for every wrong reason imaginable.

[@TheRealSusieDeltarune]

@@Icedsobaka I'd be willing to argue Mad Hatter doesn't care whether someone is trans or not, dude's just nuts and wants an "Alice" and i don't think he'd be too picky about whether his "Alice" is trans or not

[@degurkin]

Nah see Strange would see trans people as sick and treat it as a disease.

[@ellie8272]

I disagree completely that they'd be accepting just because they view it as a real medical phenomena. Doctors like those tend to view people with disorders as subhuman lab rats and I have no doubt Strange would be the same

[@LethargicScientist]

I will say in the Harley Quinn TV show Riddler is gay and married to Clock King. He is, however, depicted as an asshole gay, so he could be like an LGB alliance type dude.

[@dillydraws]

Oh so James Somerton.

[@comedyman2817]

Ew

[@jonathonriddle9922]

Riddler in the show Gotham seemed to be developing a queer romance with Penguin, so maybe he's bisexual?

[@hannahfanning9585]

​@@jonathonriddle9922The Riddler gives me big Bi vibes for some reason. It might just be a case of "I'm bi and I like him" but he just kinda gives me a feeling

[@CaptainBarnabas]

​@jonathonriddle9922 i know that there's a billion different iterations of these characters but i believe a valentines day comic from 2022 had the riddler be explicitly bi

[@Yan4rchy]

The Mad Hatter in some versions also kidnaps men to turn them into "his Alice", so I think he might accept trans people.

[@Flareguy]

In the Arkham games tons of moments imply he views Batman. As his Alice

[@mell7249]

Forcefem Mad Hatter?????

[@Yan4rchy]

@@mell7249 And it's definitely his hypnosis' fault that I do crossdressing with the Alice in Wonderland theme, just his fault.

[@Popcultureguy3000]

The Mad Hatter’s view on gender roles is _absolutely_ something that depends on the continuity. Arkham gameverse Jarvis Tetch would think gender is fluid, in so much as he’ll make anyone who fits the physical characteristics “his Alice”, but classic DCAU Jarvis would would *absolutely not accept* any person assigned female he fancies coming out as a man.

[@PedanticPig]

The Mad Hatter is definitely a chaser.

[@calemr]

Hugo could go either way. He could go Peterson, or he could go purely clinical, mildly irritated, "No, transexuality is a fully recognised part of medical science. That's just how it works." And then start psychoanalysing transphobes in his standard fucked up way. Not because they're transphobes, mind, he just likes tormenting people psychologically and would see that as an opening.

[@ChristyAbbey]

As long as he doesn't call us "monster men".

[@killerqueenisbestmanneko8419]

Blanchard option

[@moshymosh]

He wouldn't care.

[@PedanticPig]

​​@@killerqueenisbestmanneko8419Yep, Hugo Strange gives full Ray Blanchard/conversation therapist vibes.

[@AlriikLives]

@@ChristyAbbey Deep cut, but goes hard.

[@nameless55697]

Joker is the only one who gets away with "I treat everyone the same"

[@valenetta8017]

5:43 i disagree that Gotham itself is more transphobic than your average city, but rather the average criminal is more transphobic and because of the sheer number of them she would need to carry self defense. She's at a higher risk of being attacked because trans people get hate crimed and there's a bunch of terrible criminals in Gotham, and that's why she said what she said

[@nassiemartinez4399]

It might also be about being a trans WOMAN in particular. Alot of villains go out of their way to attack women

[@breezeshooter42]

In the comic that panel is from, Alyshia says that "violence against trans people is on the rise" though it's unclear if she's talking about Gotham specifically or just in general.

[@Miles_Phantasmagoria]

​@@breezeshooter42yeah honestly it could be just a commentary on the country at large, though I wouldn’t be surprised if Gotham - a city usually representing the worst of the capitalist hellscape - would have higher levels of transphobic violence

[@sinfulpuritan3430]

I was thinking that it's not even that the average criminal is more likely to be transphobic, but moreso that because Gotham has higher levels of criminal activity (which probably means the population has a higher population of criminals) it's more likely that a transphobic person would also be a criminal. So it's because there's more criminals in the population that leads to more possibilities for hate crimes.

[@winterohern3233]

Fun fact Batman canonically not transpobic.

[@dillydraws]

Ofc not, it's Batman. He's like the best ally you could ask for.

[@leithaziz2716]

I thought that was the assumption...? He's one of the most selfless guys you could ask for.

[@hannahfanning9585]

Batman is such a good person, one of my favorite characters, I love him

[@bigjok3929]

I would have been more surprised if he WASN'T

[@Fanimati0n]

That seems obvious. When Tim came out to him, he told him that he just wants his son to be happy. No big reaction. Just "are you happy with who you are? Yes? Good, b/c that's all I've ever wanted for you"

[@harleyklawz]

As a trans woman, I think we may have found the most based cis dudes of all time

[@ShennaTheShinyEevee]

True allies

[@discord5238]

This video gives very big "Discord call me and my friends would make at 2 am" vibes and I love it

[@legendswarble2845]

The Deadshot minset being "transphobia hurts my friends and I have a gun 🤷🏾‍♂️" is so goddamned funny

[@hannahfanning9585]

Deadshot is such a great character. Particularly Deadshot as played by Idris Elba in The Suicide Squad. He barely even reads as a bad guy to me.

[@MarcyRavenManji]

​@@hannahfanning9585idk if you're joking but Idris plays Bloodsport in that movie... Will Smith is the one who played Deadshot

[@casualcyberguy1314]

In Arkham Asylum:A serious house on serious earth. It’s explained the Joker wakes up everyday and creates his personality. It’s why he can go from laughing fish to blowing up hospitals. So the Joker would just wake up and figure out if he’s transphobic or not.

[@AlriikLives]

Ah, "Super Sanity". I love that concept. Keeps us from having three Jokers.

[@kirakoraawesome]

The only item I disagree with on this list is poison ivy. Love her, but with how much she despises men, I feel like she could fall into the biological essentialist view point very easily and think like, 'once a man always a man' or some bs like that. I guess it also depends on the version. Poison ivy from the Harley Quinn animated series def would go killing transphones as a fun date with Harley. But other, more villainous versions of her wouldnt care because she hates all of humanity, or actively despsise trans people.

[@CloudDieStrifende]

Well if she hates humanity, yes sure. But i think she's smart enough to know that what's between your legs doesn't dictate your gender i.e. what your personality is.

[@halfmettlealchemist8076]

I slightly disagree (though I do see where you're coming from) since modern versions of Poison Ivy are characterized less as hating men and more just hating humanity in general (except for Harley of course), so I don't think Ivy would discriminate against trans men specifically even at her most villainous. IMO, for her, transphobia would be like deciding to discriminate between different genders of ants - i.e., utterly pointless.

[@KnucklesxReala911]

​@@halfmettlealchemist8076like the op said, depends the version, she can go from killing indiscriminately any person, to just killing men and forgiving women (and all kids I guess) but I feel either way she likely fall into hypocritical territory since I see her as jumping from mindset depending her moods and how much she is connect with nature that day

[@kirakoraawesome]

@@halfmettlealchemist8076 that is fair! I don't really read that many comics so my only exposure to modern versions of her is the Harley Quinn animated series.

[@hannahfanning9585]

Uma Therman's Poison Ivy gives big TERF vibes. Modern Poison Ivy like in THQS would be an ally.

[@Miles_Phantasmagoria]

“Batman! I’ve poisoned the water supply with the chemicals that turn the freaking frogs gay!” - idfk, one of those guys, I don’t read comics

[@Alienhimbo]

I THINK THE MAD HATTER IS A CHASER LMAO

[@BougGroug]

The thing is Riddler also reads as kinda autistic coded to me, and autistic people as a demographic are statistically more likely accept trans people. I don't disagree with you guys completely tho, I can totally see him as a bioessentialist "LGB without the T" type, but I also think he can change if given the chance. Like, he'll probably get very defensive and annoying about it if you try to convince him, but if you let him figure out the "gender puzzle" on his own he could end up in the "accepts" tier. Not "kills transphobes" tho, he's too self centered for that.

[@mutantmuseum]

Yeah I could see that. I think we were mostly thinking of Paul Dani's Riddler, who is more than a little Qanon-coded

[@donniejefferson9554]

I could see that. Personally though, I see him as the sort of guy to not "get it" and be hateful because if he doesn't understand something, it must be dumb. Likd he probably wouldn't kill trans people or target them, but he would definitely try to debate them about their identity. Maybe leave some kinda sus reddit comments.

[@Yan4rchy]

As an autistic person who is hyperfocused on the Riddler, yes, I completely agree

[@xx_isabel_the_wolf_xx3869]

Get him thinking about how certain things are entirely abstract, and then ask him if he thinks gender is abstract, don't bring up the answer immediately because you want him to feel smarter for "figuring it out" so just point him in the direction and then he'll be like "ITS CLEAR! GENDER IS LITERALLY A SOCIALLY APPLIED CONCEPT! I'M A GENIUS!!"

[@BougGroug]

​@@mutantmuseum oh yeah, that Riddler is just straight up an incel. He's transphobic for sure

[@A_Shrubbery1901]

the fact that killer moth is not on this tier list is a crime

[@puppetman833]

@@A_Shrubbery1901 That’s because the answer would be too easy.

[@AlriikLives]

Killer Moth goes in both the JK Rowling and Kills Transphobes tier. Like, he is fabulous, but he hates anyone enjoying life.

[@halfmettlealchemist8076]

IIRC the same issue with the “trans flag baseball bat” panel has that same trans woman (Barbara Gordon’s best friend) get into a fight with Killer Moth, but Moth has no actual issue with her being trans and is only fighting her bc she’s in his way when he’s trying to fight Barbara as Batgirl. So I think Moth is in the “uses trans people’s preferred pronouns while he’s mugging them for their wallets” tier

[@weeping_me362]

Classic killer moth W

[@Whispurer]

More like Killer GOAT

[@manskronqvist2537]

26:20 Very apt analysis there! There’s a quite prominent comic panel from Whatever Happened to The Caped Crusader where Joker refuses to kill someone because it wouldn’t be funny. (Also, he’s a natural born comedian, picking on trans people is hack comedy) Also 50:22 the idea was that it didn’t really work. They made him decide his every action by drawing from a tarot deck and it lead to him being unable to make a single decision because there were like 60 options at once.

[@beywheelzhater8930]

Joker complains about attack helicopter jokes not because he hates that they are transphobic as his care for other people is about zero he just hates how overdone they are. Transphobes use the same cookie cutter jokes with no build up and basically the exact same punchline while wearing different colored gloves and I think that would be the most likely part to actually anger him. I feel like Joker is merely just accepting in the way he is indifferent to most people’s lives and what they identify as, he just ends up hating transphobes because of comedy based spite and it makes him look like a much bigger ally

[@halfmettlealchemist8076]

On a similar note, Joker would hate comedians who complain about how “PC/wokeness is killing comedy” because those people are hacks who can’t come up with anything original. Plus, he knows that political correctness isn’t killing comedians - _he’s_ killing comedians, because he kills everybody lol

[@manskronqvist2537]

@@beywheelzhater8930 I think he would like trans people on principle the same way John Waters does. We are naturally subversive just by being ourselves. We are punks down to the very synapses of our brains. We can make any side of the political spectrum uncomfortable. Joker loves himself some shifting paradigms

[@hannahfanning9585]

​@@halfmettlealchemist8076Joker would hate people who make bigoted jokes, not because they're bigoted, but because they're just not that funny. If there was a bigoted commedian who was actually funny, he'd have no issue with them.

[@fairucku]

there's a case to be made with Ras Al Ghul that he would be accepting having come across the numerous queer identities present in the ancient world. modern conservatives want people to think normative "family values" have been consistent throughout history.

[@shlonkyplonky]

This is a good point. Ra's sort of hates humanity as a whole, I don't think he would really target any one group in particular. Living for as long as he has certainly put Ra's into contact with plenty of people from all sorts of backgrounds, orientations, cultures, etc, and he's watched them all change with time, developing his own sense of things over the course of many lifetimes. He's had a long time to come to terms with things. The guy's pretty much seen everything, and living in a world where crazy sh*t happens every other week, I feel like he'd treat the subject as no big thing. Also, considering just how intelligent Ra's is, I think he'd know better.

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

Ra's out there living for more than half a millennia, training with or fighting all sorts of people. Knowledge of your enemies and allies is your biggest weapon.

[@404maxnotfound]

Imo Ras Al Ghul would be like a grandpa who is an ally. Like sure he tries to respect you but can sometimes be accidentally transphobic/confusing because he would use older terms from accient greece or someshit when talking about you to someone else.

[@DaughterOfDrakes]

This is a very important point.

[@amberreed5324]

Idk, 'cause isn't there times where Talia asked "Why can't I just become your successor since I'm obviously your favorite?" and Ra's response was "Cause you're a woman and women can't lead"? Would trans-friendly Ra's change his mind if Talia became Talio and let him become his successor?

[@felixmckinney7132]

Decided to make a Batman Beyond Villain Transphobia Tier List: JK Rowling tier: • Blight • Shreik • Cynthia Doesn’t Accept Trans People Tier: • Spellbinder • Bigtime Accepts Trans People Tier: • Patrick the Rat Boy • Wily Watt (Golem’s Host) • The Terrific Trio • Armory Kills Transphobes Tier: • Inqe • Curare • Mad Stan • Payback

[@thenexus8384]

What about Curare?

[@felixmckinney7132]

@ She’s on the list, check again

[@thenexus8384]

@@felixmckinney7132 oh, I missed her, and I agree with that she definitely kills transphobes, same with Inque

[@billyboleson2830]

The Jokerz would be like half accepting half not imo

[@windwind3170]

Nah, Maxie Zeus would go: "Can I fuck it?" because he's so much into Zeus RP.

[@Popcultureguy3000]

Wasn’t there a minor Greek and/or Roman Diety who is explicitly both male and female? Greek/Roman Gods are more gender nonconforming than most people give them credit for, they weren’t _just_ known for polyamory and being M/M gay relationship accepting (as long as you’re on top, their masculine culture thinks being a bottom is the most shameful thing a man could be).

[@AlriikLives]

Maxie, as a Greek roleplayer, is super inclusive. Sad thing is, he's into Pederasty.

[@slashercat8649]

The 'kill transphobes' roster is so funny, imagine if that group had to hang out with each other. Half of them have personal beef with the Joker. Also, I will say that the Talia Al Ghoul and Batman conception of Damian is pretty widely considered as a racist retcon that came out of nowhere for Talia's character and is basically character assassination. At no point was she set up to be a character that would do something like that, and it took away all of her complexity to just demonize her. She would probably still fall under "doesn't accept trans people" but more so because of her environment, and I feel she's one of those cases that could change her mind as she grows

[@gaminganimators7000]

The rpe was racist or the cloning?

[@slashercat8649]

@@gaminganimators7000 the first one, as far as I know people don't have as big a problem with the second one

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

Wait, racist? I'm confused

[@jackmahoney3783]

Bane is very much an ally, he’s close friends with Ragdoll who is non-binary.

[@theo4834]

On clayface the BTAS version was written queer (subtextually, f those censors) and was supposed to in a relationship with his friend in the episode

[@tabbingphafner3681]

yep, the producers confirmed Matt Hagan (BTAS Clayface) was canonically gay, and specifically included a scene of Matt’s boyfriend standing outside a hospital, not allowed to go in to see Matt, as a critique of 80s/90s hospitals who determined gay relationships “weren’t real family” and therefore gay people couldn’t see hurt loved ones due to restricted patient visitation.

[@hannahfanning9585]

​@@tabbingphafner3681that scene was heartbreaking

[@rachieebeee]

About Tahlia al Ghul, originally it was consensual but then it was changed in the Morrison run which was wrote her incredibly out of character and was probably just racism. In the New 52 her and Batman had Damian consensually, so the r*pe got retconned. Morrision's Tahlia was portrayed really racist and misogynistically so not great at all. She is a super interesting character so it sucks how her best characterisation is ignored over a retconned version that is literally just a racist stereotype

[@gaynerd06]

THANK U. ive been looking for a comment like this. i love talia! batman son of the demon is like my favorite comic ever

[@TGill-f2h]

UserID checks out

[@weeping_me362]

That's very interesting. The daterape of Batman has always been my point of reference for the character other than her relation to her father and her relationship with Batman. Honestly we should just have disclaimer on Morrison comics that no matter how good they are, the interpretations of the characters are batshit for no reason. See : Magneto in New X-Men. That really bums me that either character got saddled with unnecessary rape, especially Bane since I am attached to that character. But to your point, I think its very telling that I've known about Tallia's rape in Morrison for about a decade while I've just heard about Bane's rape right now

[@leithaziz2716]

I think a telling problem with this confusion is that neither Talia or Ra's has had any memorable stories to the point that Grant Morisson's oopsie is the only thing people remember about her. When was the last time a story with Ra's was relevant to the casual audience? Batman Begins? Talia's had it worse.

[@rachieebeee]

@@leithaziz2716 Yeah true. Like Ra and Tahlia had a few episodes in BTAS but way less than most of Batman's other notable rouges which sucks. They're both really interesting characters too

[@joshkaid]

I think it's worth noting that Hush was a surgeon at one point and has shown to at least have a passing ability to perform cosmetic surgery, so it's entirely possible he performed gender reassignment surgeries on people.

[@steampunker3843]

Hush is also massively racist, misogynist, and hates poor people tho so I’m like 95% sure he’d be JK-Rowling levels of transphobic

[@wyvernscale9634]

So I'm a trans woman, and before I inevitably end up ranting about transphobia, I just wanted to say how wonderful this video is

[@strigoi_guhlqueen8355]

Hey, thanks guys. This was a hillarious watch. As a trans person myself I have sometimes mused over what such nerdy topics before. Great fun. Also I distinctly remeber reading a german non licensed batgirl comic i got at my local dingy comic shop. It was bound and printed in an odd way and like 250 pages long. I think it was authored by one of the owners friends. It was wiiiiild. But I really liked it and the protagonist was a teenage boy who would dress up as batgirl and later was turned into a girl and so and so forth. Didnt realized it at the time but that was probably the first trans story i evet read. I hope i have it still somewhere.

[@notsmrt4521]

10:05 in the comics he has canonically (said it in the main universe, and it hasnt been retconned) come out as sapio-sexual (sexually attracted to smart people)

[@beywheelzhater8930]

I like how I didn’t even need to check to know who you meant Riddler regularly browses 4chan and Reddit

[@davidc.]

Scarecrow would love scaring transphobes.

[@Gitaxixn]

BOO! TRANS PEOPLE!!! YOU NOW HAVE THE OPPOSITE GENITALS!!! WASHAHGAHAHAHHAHAH

[@auditect950]

If Scarecow ever used his fear gas on JK Rowling, she'd see trans people being treated nicely.

[@MadMax-de5uh]

Prometheus hates cops so I feel like he’d hate transphobes

[@TheLostArchangel666]

Agreed

[@nkosig4995]

Ngl i really feel like mad hatter would be jk rowling teir like even if he would mostly be tranphobic towards transmen i still think that would be MORE than enough to get into jk rowling teir

[@bepisthescienceman4202]

Mad hatter imposter however would be trans accepting

[@Miles_Phantasmagoria]

Honestly viewing people as objects is the reason we’re in this mess to begin with so I believe it. Like JKR is also vibing on this wavelength

[@Qloworm]

I think that Two-Face would definitely be transphobic, since he's obsessed with binaries.

[@calemr]

He'd be fine with someone being trans-male or female, but he would deny the existence of non-binary people. I could see him shouting about "Male or Female! The coin only has two sides!" And then in the end, when he gets punched in the face, he drops his coin and it lands in a crack between some tiles so it's on it's edge.

[@_Tozzie_]

its a coin toss really

[@respectfulevil9022]

"Pick a side" type mf

[@astrissterne]

Lmfao two-face would accept binary trans people but his transphobia would be appaling with NBs

[@WerthPower]

Sure, but that's a bit over-simplistic. Like, that's the most arch version of the character, but any real characterization goes way beyond "I like anything when it's two." Two-Face does struggle with a kind of mental dysphoria (in some versions split personalities like Ventriloquist) in that he feels there are two fragmented sides to himself and he has trouble landing on which one is real or how to synthesize them. In both comics and some shows, he's even developed third personalities. He also struggles with body images issues often. On the basis of saying you think Batman is accepting of trans folks and he generally lends support to politicians whose values he truly believes in, it also suggests Harvey Dent was probably not transphobic (Dent was also very concerned about police corruption and investigating police, woke)

[@erikm8373]

I think Joker is in the kills transphobes tier not because he in any way cares about trans people, but just because they're such good targets to mess with. Uptight and stubborn, obsessed with things like appearances, rules, and expectations.

[@SevenminutesisallthetimeIhave]

Hey! That’s me! A trans person who knows all these characters! I feel so seen…

[@inferodios]

Yeah Croc would definitely kill transphobes. Waylon is always looking out for the marginalized and underprivileged people of Gotham. He was also Roy Harper’s AA sponsor. I love him so much. I hate when writers just use him as a big guy to be an obstacle for a hero.

[@stupendoushorrendous8258]

YES! Lore-backed analysis, I love it.

[@SouLeozinho]

Professor Pyg should be in the "doesn't accept" category, because he doesn't care about people's feelings. The Dollotrons are created from people he perceives to have no physical flaws, who he kidnaps and forcefully removes all feeling, making them "perfect". People *with* physical flaws, however, he murders because they'll never be perfect (that's how he gets caught, he leaves a trail of victims with bone deformities and other physical ailments or uniquities). It should be said that the Dollotrons are genderless, but it's because they have no feelings. Pyg's "perfection" removes all discernable traits.

[@nicholaspearce2250]

30:37 why do I feel like the mad hatter would accept trans women but not trans men simply because that gives him more victims to prey on?

[@gintygaz493]

would he be a chaser??

[@Qualithony_Contentano]

Is he Lou Reed??

[@philardo]

I only know a few batman villains, since i'm not that deep in the matter, but if I had to guess, clayface would be an ally, cause he can relate to gender dysphoria, what with what his body has going on, riddler would not care, cause his entire shtick is kinda far away from the whole topic and penguin would be a bigot, just cause he's a complete kook. Looking forward to see how accurate that is lol Also that speech at the beginning is incredibly based. Can't wait for republicans to get exactly what they voted for

[@lalas181]

The Iceberg Lounge, however, would _totally_ have themed weekends and rotating specials for the entire month of June. The Penguin would use that as a "gotcha" against any accusations of transphobia, but really it's just because he can recognize a potential revenue boost when he sees one. Regardless of his own prejudice, he knows for a fact that they/them dollars spend just as well.

[@dillydraws]

@@lalas181 Ah.. So Disney

[@philardo]

​@@dillydraws you're both so real lmao

[@AyanoAishi888]

@@lalas181 so basically that means penguin b like any corpo on pride month, claims to support the queers and even sells merch on pride month bc *Mr krabs voice* money but in this case he’s just do something special for that occasion in the lounge (he’d probably sell merch and hire drag queens for entertainment for that one month idk). But once July hits he takes down all the rainbows and goes “back to hell ya go u stupid fruit” and then just waits for pride month to come by again to start his “support” all over again

[@timmyuniboi2050]

I would've put Firefly in JK rowling since in Batgirl Year One, the only place I know any real backstory from him, his motivation is literally to see a beautiful woman on fire. His view of women, in that iteration at least, seemed misogynistic. I'll update the comment if i have future thoughts. Edit: nah no more notes.

[@KnucklesxReala911]

Nah personally I just think stuff he kind gets interested into he mentally wants to connect it with fire, in other appearances he also set fire to a zoo and an amusement park because is where places he wished to go when he was. A kid, but he doesn't see it as destroying what he couldn't have but more as in mixing the psycho pyro desire with the experience

[@rorschach1848]

If Firefly is a misogynist then he should also be trans-accepting.

[@snufkin-w7n]

Feel like there should be a chaser tier

[@iwillsaythistho3023]

Haha who do you think would go in there?

[@MadMax-de5uh]

Riddler would definitely go in there

[@MadMax-de5uh]

Penguin too

[@MadMax-de5uh]

Poison ivy aswell

[@MadMax-de5uh]

Two face also because of his obsession with duality

[@404maxnotfound]

Hush would be the oli london type of transphobe. Ie obssessed with someone(for hush it's bruce wayne for oli it was kpop idols) enough massively change their physical appearance then when they get called out for how weird that is they turn it into a anti trans thing to seem more "normal".

[@nkosig4995]

diddystroke

[@trissi4468]

Diddy the Terminator

[@mell7249]

Anarky is like, an actual anarchist that does anarchist shit lmao

[@cladladd]

I love the unhinged thumbnail

[@MariaKryvohub]

There is a thing where being a victim doesn't automatically make you a good person. There is a comics Maus about that, although it's about a holocaust and it's survivors. I'm mentioning it here because Croc doesn't neceserrily has to be trans supportive just because he has problems with his body.

[@TheBatman39]

That's too much of a nuanced take for certain people's brains to understand

[@astrissterne]

The nuance of whether the crocodile man chooses to eat people equally or not (fr tho that's a very interesting concept. But like, aren't many Batman villains like this already? Ostracized to the point of having almost no empathy or having empathy limited to only a few people)

[@cloththesupervillain6094]

True, but I don’t see any reason Croc *would* be transphobic.

[@Fanimati0n]

He has, however, been shown to be a very accepting person who looks out for the marginalized people of Gotham & was Roy Harper's AA sponsor

[@geekgirl616]

Fun fact it’s cannon in the live action dc universe that Harley voted for Bernie

[@theguystealingyourinternet3712]

Considering Mad Hatter is a sex pest, I could see him being like a chaser but I don't know where that would fit in this list

[@Hi.im.V]

17:37 also Jericho’s actor in the Titans show , Chella mann, is a trans guy

[@iwillsaythistho3023]

That would have been great to know before we made the video lmao

[@BougGroug]

You're telling me Man is a man?

[@wetoddedd]

@@BougGroug it was in his destiny, the gender at his birth was just an obstacle

[@endermangames1112]

19:40 bruce is a very progressive man, he uses his money for a lot of social stuff, and works to fight a lot of global issues

[@DeAndreJaquess]

Batman is canonically a registered Democrat and supports trans rights and actually paid for Victoria October (a trans scientist helping him cure Clayface in DC Rebirth) he paid for her gender reassignment surgery and sent her a congratulations card. He also accepted Tim Drake Robin when he came out as bisexual. Like y’all said the Justice League has diverse ppl on it he’s used to working with so Batman is definitely not transphobic

[@Reinoiro]

Batman cannot stop getting more based

[@sherleeoneill1087]

51:58 I think a lot of people don't reaize how smart Bane really is. Like even Ras Al Ghul said he's on an intelligence level as bruce wayne (now he tends to be less refined than bruce, but he's still extremely smart) which it's sad to see versions of Bane that don't take his intellect serious

[@mastercrafter2252]

This was absolutly pointless and had no greater effect on the wider dc universe. I loved every second of it and honestly every choice made me laugh harder and harder. I just imagine someone trying to cancel one of these guys and gals on twitter. And they just go “…. This is what you have a problem with? Not the murder or terroism or crimes against humanity… but this… huh” then they just thwack them or shoot them. Funnesit shit ever

[@beywheelzhater8930]

Joker would get all giddy if someone got mad at him for being trans accepting over the murder specifically because he would find the situation hilarious. He interacts with transphobes specifically for the unintentional comedy, although that joy tends to quickly fade as they begin to once again cycle through the same handful of jokes about attack helicopters and neo pronouns. He doesn’t even really care about trans people that much, he is an ally in the sense that he will shrug and accept these kinds of things without a second thought because it is none of his business, he just ends up having actual strong feelings against transphobes for being bad at comedy I feel like Joker saying “bored now” is something a number of people have heard before dying

[@SomerandomShmuck]

@@beywheelzhater8930Batman is trans??

[@NethanTheDrawer2]

"Drakestroke"

[@SomerandomShmuck]

YESSSSS! 💀💀

[@eaglest0554]

For some reason I feel like the riddler ONLY respects neopronouns.

[@S12ALT]

Professor Pyg actually removes his victim’s sexual organs and makes them all neutral. It says this is Arkham Knight and in the comics.

[@mynameismyname4713]

REAL QUICK Talia s/a ing bruce is a horrid and racist retcon because grant Morrison didn’t do their homework.

[@BonnieFluff]

I think Mad Hatter would be one of those twitter dudes with a loli PFP who argues with trans people, I don't think he's JK Rowling but he follows her and tolerates her as she agrees with him. Hugo Strange started as a generic Mad Scientist who made monster men, he also had this obsession with killing and becoming Batman, I think he'd understand trans people but I agree with you, I think he'd try to mentally (and later physically) dissect a trans person to understand them, accepting is a coin toss though. Ventriloquist accepts trans people but I could totally see Scarface just spurting out slurs. Anarky has changed with the times, but I'd never describe him as a brocialist the way you kinda painted him. Anarky is an actual practitioner of praxis, most anti-idpol folks tend to be more auth-left, Anarky would be this trans liberation dude, hell you could convince me he's Trans-Masc and I'd kinda agree. The 6 sided Die thing in Serious House was shown to be horrible for Two-Face! They got him onto a deck of cards and he was so overwhelmed by choice that he couldn't go to the bathroom. But at the same time, it ends with him flipping a coin and (potentially) ignoring it's outcome to let Batman go. I do see him flipping a coin and either becoming the most vile transphobe or the nicest ally.

[@creed8712]

We know the coin thing for two face is sorta bullshit because he routinely flips it again and again until he gets the outcome he wants

[@beywheelzhater8930]

I also feel like Scarface would spit out slurs not out of any specific hatred towards them, the puppet is actually indifferent about all that, he just knows it will hurt them He is an equal opportunity horrible person and would just as soon congratulate a minion on a gender reassignment surgery as an excuse to bust out the booze as he would spit out the most vile stuff possible

[@monochrome_soft9472]

i love the concept of transmasc anarky so much holy shit ..tranarky

[@gaminganimators7000]

​@@creed8712that's just a Batman Forever thing iirc

[@Insane-Howl-Cowl]

In Gotham Central, Two Face could not accept that Renee Montoya was gay. He knew her before she came out, and thought she was just confused.

[@ericlayton8888]

I feel like Joker truly views every person in the world of all walks of life as equally murder-able. Like he doesn’t hate any specific group because he just does not care

[@ToddAnderson-gq9xh]

"I don't see batman as that sort of guy." I love how in the 80s run of JL comics, Bruce deadass just decks a guy for being racist

[@JoltedAlive]

This is not the type of thing i expected a channel with 300 subs to be making, but damn am i glad to have found this channel :3

[@ellie8272]

It's not often you watch a video that's "two cis guys ranting about politics on the internet" and they're just completely based. It rules

[@johnprime1147]

I know a lot of Batman's super villains. As a writer who tried writing Batman but has too much procrastination. Ahem! Joker is is honestly too chaotic to be on either. Crocco boy? Accepts. Baggy boy with gas? Doesn't care. Popstickle? Accepts. Mr. Smiling guy who found out who Batman is? Does not accept. Proffesor of something? Let's just say he'll try to make you "Perfect" so top of the scale

[@glassbearproductions]

I feel like with Riddler, or at least more modern versions of him, because he's smart and loves puzzles, he would actively try to further his knowledge of trans people, partially for selfish reasons (he can't let this be a blind spot in his knowledge) and genuine curiosity. He would pursue trans writings and art, he would pursue how transness intersects with different groups and institutions, and so on. Even if he does ask some ignorant/insensitive questions, I feel like he would try to understand and accept trans people, even if he is making some mistakes along the way.

[@chatese]

In the Valentine’s Day special of Harley Quinn Clayface does in fact go on a date with a man!! Also it’s so refreshing to see cis men talk about trans people so educated and respectfully 🫡

[@Empress_Of_The_Void]

Joker would 100% break into a transphobs house, force transition them, and then tape mirrors everywhere and leave just to antagonize them

[@mason_mwm4890]

two face meets a trans person does coin flip: Heads, gives hug + uses correct pronouns. Tails, gun

[@lalalalalalalalalala-js5xl]

Statistically neutral

[@Silburific]

Tails: starts shouting every slur he can think of

[@plumdowner1941]

The Joker would be super woke and even attend pride rallies, just to piss off Batman. Knowing that one of his greatest antagonists is out in the open, and he can't do anything about it because it'll make it look like Batman just attacked a pride rally. And the Joker would revel in that fact.

[@mell7249]

Professor Pyg's motivation is very similar to a lot of invasive operations on Intersex irl

[@NKO_lindo]

my favorite type of content is when nerds are nerding about things i nerd to

[@AspelShuyin]

Two cis guys starting a funny trans video with "you can't be neutral, that's the side of the oppressor" is an amazing way to start. Love it. You just come out swinging. Also, Clayface has a sort of split off of him that's a young girl who was sort of Robin's love interest for one episode. So something between daughter and self, but she is treated as him in the cartoon.

[@AspelShuyin]

I think Mad Hatter is a chaser.

[@AspelShuyin]

I'm just gonna feed the algorithm here and comment whenever a stray thought crosses my mind: On the subject of queer people on the Suicide Squad: Grant Morrison (the writer) was on the Suicide Squad. They died of writer's block.

[@AspelShuyin]

I will say that while Anarky is supposed to be an Anarchist, he was mostly written as an Objectivist. So it depends on when he was written and by who.

[@AspelShuyin]

Maxie Zeus when he's crazy and thinks he's Zeus, maybe he'd be accepting, but when he's just a rich billionaire he's definitely a JK Rowling. I also don't necessarily think he'd be a mythologically accurate. Like he's not becoming Zeus, he's just thinking he's Zeus. And who he thinks Zeus is would probably be transphobic. Which actually brings up a story from a health care worker training I went to. It was about how you're not there to push back against schizophrenics or anything like that, and how she had a client who thought he was Darth Vader and once said his legs grew out of a silver box, and I'm sitting there thinking "that's not lore accurate!"

[@windwind3170]

Thinking about Strange reminded me of his audiologs in Arkham Asylum and City, and yeah, he would totally try to gaslight into thinking that you're only trans because you were either abused or had a traumatic experience during childhood. But I don't think he would do it because he's necessarily a transphobe, but just because he would enjoy tormenting you for shits and giggles.

[@owellafehr5191]

Glad to see all my favourite villains are in the bottom two tiers so I can like them with a clear conscience 😆

[@velvetbow39]

this was actually extremely comforting because of recent events so thank u both for making this!!! it was such a fun time!! (also i did not expect that dr steel mention?!?!)

[@ampisbadatthis]

I'm 5 minutes in, and this is the most based video I've ever watched

[@dylansickinger545]

“Why so conservative?” - The Woker

[@Random_ghost3958]

I just found this channel, and i love it. Yall are amazing and funny. Keep the good work up

[@thebean297]

i found wholesome shameless cis dudes on the internet. subscribed 👍

[@iwbee]

I'm a nonbinary batman fan and I think this is my new favorite video

[@olivesherwood]

Wasnt sure what I was expecting when I clicked this video. This was truly delightful. Really really lovely. Thank you for that intro. 💝

[@spectrum6266]

Loving the energy only 2 minutes in, I have no idea who you both are yet, but so far, awesome.

[@wondershroom]

21:34 Honestly "what if Batman was evil" is also so overdone that it's also an annoying trope to me to, it can work don't get me wrong (insert obvious Owlman or Dark Knight Returns reference). But then you get cases like Tek Knight in the Boys TV Show (I say the show specifically because the comic version is apparently actually complex) where the intention was, and I quote, (though censor cause idk how youtube comment sorting works) "We view it as hilarious. Obviously, Tek Knight is our version of Batman, and we wanted to really play around with that trope: Batman's fascist undrpinnings as a really wealthy dude who hunts poor people, and then profits of incarceration. So that was one. Tek Knight was already set up to be a freak, so we were already kind of halfway there. Then the notion came up of, he should have a Batcave - but let's be honest, the Batcave would be a s3x dungeon. Like, even the real Batcave is just this side of being a s3x dungeon. It's really dark, and there's rubber suits everyone. It's not much of a push to add a couple d1ldos and then a weird ur1nal that turns into a face mask" The Boys is one of the shows of all time

[@billyboleson2830]

Most evil batmen straight up suck outside of owlman and maybe wrath. Nemesis also sucks

[@wondershroom]

@@billyboleson2830 I haven't hear of Wrath till now but I do still plan on reading Nemesis, even if I'm not expecting it to be high art lol

[@leithaziz2716]

The big pitfall everyone falls into the moment they ask "what if Batman was evil or killed?" is that you now fit that description into half a dozen characters. Now he's Punisher, or Red Hood, or litterarly any tactical mastermind with lots of gadgets. The non-lethality, trauma and selflessnes is what makes the character interesting to write about.

[@wondershroom]

@@leithaziz2716 True but I still do like the idea of a story in which Batman kills and ends up becoming everything that the mainline Batman fears, which is TECHNICALLY what Batman Who Laughs is but I was super disappointed when I found out the reason he turned evil wasn't a downward spiral of morals or anything, it was just joker gas

[@LazyTempHandle]

@@billyboleson2830 Killer Moth could've been a top-tier too. He would be an A-lister if anyone took him seriously and I will die on that hill!

[@avabriley5626]

I feel like the joker would forcibly transition transphobes

[@WelloBello]

Not because of any sort of moral principle on the subject. He just thinks it would be funny.

[@leviachan5611]

the riddler would be a transvestigator. I agree

[@winterohern3233]

Anarchy definitely kills transposes

[@Lordwakawaka]

Fun fact: there was a trans woman in doom patrol in the 90s, I think. Coagula. She was written by a trans woman who picked up the book immediately after Grant Morrison. Oh, and of course there's Rebis who is...non binary in a complicated way.

[@iwillsaythistho3023]

Rachel Pollack! I read one of her scifi novels a while ago