Rating a Surtha Ek True Chariot Master Doomstack

[@doktarr]

Yeah, so this is my army. To answer a few of the questions: The Ice Wolf Chariots are pretty much just better than the regular chariots. they are faster, have more health, higher MA, higher weapon damage, and do frostbite damage. Plus the ranged attack, which unfortunately isn't that useful because it's not 360 degree, but it is AP damage. The only thing that's worse is 5 points of armor, which isn't much. Also it's honestly nice at times to be able to turn on skirmish mode and just let them make enemies chase them around. It's no contest really. The Frost Wyrms are there for sieges (and to deal with things like artillery, but mainly for sieges). I include 2 Frost Wyrms in all my mammoth doomstacks, too. I think it's pretty handy. The War Mammoth Warshrine and Surtha Ek and the the Skin Wolves are an anchor you can cycle charge around, particularly if there are large units to deal with. You kind of saw this in the battle, where stuff would get attracted to the mammoths (despite Legend's best efforts to avoid the combat) and this would pull stuff apart, allowing the chariots to attack where they wanted. You could just build this with Surtha on the chariot, a wizard on a chariot, and 18 chariots, but I don't think it's as good. Obviously the wizard was the star here, which is fine. Most of his kills were just the few times he hit a packed bunch. (That one overcast burning head was delicious.) Rather than casting random flame-storms, one other thing you can do is pop flaming sword of ruin when the chariots are rolling into big units. It helps quite a bit. Why the sentinels? Well, my campaign was going fine (already got the victory conditions) and I just wanted to get this trait, so once I finally got it I just threw the army together and went for the only pack of armies that was nearby. Unsurprisingly that was at the black pyramid. (I actually lost Lothern in an autoresolve the turn before, which is why chariots aren't available in global recruitment.) The cheapness of this army does help, but at the same time it took me so long to get around to bagging the trait that it does reduce the value of that somewhat. If you beelined it you could easily get it by turn 100 or so, but really, why would you want to... I agree this is FAR weaker than the Mammoth spams (i.e. all my other armies other than Throgg's troll stack) but I think I can beat basically almost any single army the AI is likely to build, except maybe a Necrofex spam or very very strong rite of primeval glory, or a very hydra & dragon-heavy Dark Elf army. Almost every High Elf and Brettonia army includes lots of infantry, and the chariots are so fast that you can kite the enemy all over the place. It's also nice how it full recovers if you don't lose chariot models. But I agree it's not a true doomstack though.

[@alexd832]

Well it may not be the strongest doomstack but i personally really like that its thematic

[@AlphaRebel]

its crazy legend doesnt consider the one offs as anchors. obviously the larger units tie down blobs for the chariots

[@QuantumRockAndRoll]

I like your doomstack! You can safely raid on the map wherever you want :)

[@IAmebAdger]

You're more likely to run into phoenix and dragon-heavy High Elf armies than any of the other problem armies you listed imo. Or at least, that's what I encounter everytime I step foot on Ulthuan.

[@darth0tator]

liked your explanations on how to use it

[@askelarsen7595]

Clearly this doomstack is beyond Legends comprehension

[@holdinmcgroin8639]

Surtha Ek isnt on a chariot, smh

[@Garuwashi_]

was scrolling down with the intent of posting this, smh my head

[@richieburkett9471]

Smh

[@apocolototh1948]

Its truly sad Surtha doesnt get mammoth-chariots

[@gamer_eza47]

The only mount truly deserved

[@Michael-kd1ho]

Beyond his comprehension

[@florians9949]

Or imagine Surtha ek could turn into a deamon prince and his new form is just a giant chariot.

[@Galvanidze]

I'll never not be weirded out by their decision to make chariots fire forward only. They were literally invented for drive bys

[@IAmebAdger]

Ye these chariots have a very khornate way of fighting. I’m just glad most of the elven chariots can fire 360

[@ingold1470]

@@IAmebAdger Also their missiles do so little damage that I always put them in melee mode when I use them.

[@AlphaRebel]

scourge runners i believe can only fire back wards with the ballista part

[@IAmebAdger]

@@AlphaRebel They can also fire forward, or at least I've never had a problem with getting them to fire in any direction while kiting.

[@doktarr]

Yeah it's super weird, and makes the missile attack so much less useful. It's really only useful in a few niche cases (some weird siege cases, some drawn out endgames, kiting slow large units like giants or treemen). If it was 360 then you could have them go skirmish mode to start every battle, and the whole army would be significantly better.

[@trumble-dj5md]

Maybe people should include a brief description in their emails, telling how the doomstack was intended so that Legend doesn't always have to guess and possibly use them in a wrong way

[@fplatkrtem]

Strength: 4/10 Meme: 11/10

[@MagicHjalti]

Over 9000

[@Warmaster2001]

Hello from 2024. Meme: BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION

[@lucho6883]

How can you rate something that is BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION?

[@vincenthall7174]

Thinking about this from a tactical standpoint (This is definitely not a doom stack) this looks like an army specifically designed for the tomb kings since they bring loads of skeletons. The skinwolves, mammoth and frost wyrms might be there just to handle the few constructs these armies go up against.

[@doktarr]

It really does fine against anything infantry-heavy. Yeah the mammoth and skin wolves are your anchor units to deal with opposing large units.

[@Meyna86]

The reason for having the two Frost Wyrms is to deal with artillery, use them to draw enemy units away, fight on walls during a siege or taking out separated heroes or units. There are lots of uses for them. They may not be useful in this particular battle but it doesn't mean that having them is pointless. I also get annoyed every time Legend says that the spellcaster should be on a chariot, not a horse. A chariot can't hide in forests, a horse can. Just because there were no trees on the map the battle took place on doesn't mean he's on the wrong mount. And he doesn't need the chariot's pushing power, he's not supposed to get into combat in the first place.

[@ingold1470]

That's a strange reason, because chariots have the speed to deal with artillery quite easy.. until the AI discovers corner-camping that is. I remember building something like this on normal difficulty as a cheap meme stack and brought 3 armoured skinwolves, a werekin, some chariots and horsemasters. The horsemasters draw the enemy into separating and the chariots charge at isolated units, while the skinwolves kill anything too large for the chariots to fight well. Mammoths are still stronger, but supply lines isn't that bad on normal so I use it to mop up all the minor settlements and fight infantry-heavy factions.

[@sablesword6239]

Actually, chariots can hide in forests now. That was changed with Twisted and Twilight. You can actually see it on the wizard's unit card if you look closely.

[@Meyna86]

@@sablesword6239 I didn't notice that. I think I've only been playing factions that give flying mounts to wizards since the update. Thanks for the info. If that's the case then yeah, chariots are better. My bad.

[@doktarr]

Yeah as I said, the main reason I put the wyrms in is to fight on walls during sieges. Sieges are pretty obnoxious for Norsca since they don't have any way to tear down walls. It's nice to have dragons that can broadside the wall units and cycle charge archers on the walls.

[@ingold1470]

@@doktarr If you burn enough settlements with a Norscan lord and research the right technologies, the settlement will be starved out after 1 turn of siege.

[@Raygeing]

Troy chariots are amazing fun, thousands of kills per unit taking out multiple stacks with 5-6 units XD

[@ThomasL12.]

if u try an archer doom stack u will see it’s superior. i forgot who it was, the trojan archer, buffs them so much they can easily take out 3-4 armies and still have some ammo

[@SereglothIV]

Nobody remembers Rome 1 chariots? I had my entire army of hastati, archers and cavalry againts 2 enemy units of generals' bodyguards on chariots once. I couldn't win it.

[@AegisHyperon]

Everything is so expensive in that game that you spend all your time in debt, even with diplomacy exploit.

[@nvmtt]

@@SereglothIV oh god..........not those again.

[@sadrien]

@@SereglothIV I watched 4 units of spears kill 2 armies in Rome 1. That game has some serious issues.

[@ClapYourHairFlip]

15:55 “and these guys here are free to pick at their rear” 😂😂

[@2Vasilisk2]

It really sounds like someone pissed in Legend's coffee just before making this video

[@ALegitimateYoutuber]

We need someone to build an empire gunnery team. Which if i remember right is lord, fire wizard, witch hunters, hell blasters/hand gunners, and hellstorms. Thus pretty much, rockets from afar, magic and machine gun fire at medium, and lord and heros at close range.

[@RhysWalker2]

Settra bone chariot spam is pretty strong. More of an early game/midgame doomstack but I beat the tomb kings campaign on legendary with it.

[@alvarodebarrio7718]

Did you use settra with the chariot of the gods or did you use another mount?

[@RhysWalker2]

@@alvarodebarrio7718 - chariot of the gods. :D

[@doktarr]

I much prefer the chariot spam with Alkhazzar (the 6th dynasty unlocked general). He actually gives better bonuses to chariots than Settra does. It's a great midgame army because you can throw all your chariots there and they're useful. In late game it becomes one of my weakest armies but it's still a fun one to use.

[@alvarodebarrio7718]

@@doktarr wait that was the guy that declare war against the vampires of lamia, right?

[@geschichtenerzahler8426]

Also known as the troy exchange students doomstack

[@GodlordBazi]

"Norscabots - ROLL OUT!" - Surthimus Prime

[@lordmaur180]

Chariots were stronguer in early versions of the game, now entity mass has been increased for foot lords, some infantry, cav etc... so they cant pull trought as they could before is for obvious balance issues, but makes them harder to use

[@Debilinside]

Also this behavior where 1 entity getting stuck makes the rest of the unit charging back is just plain annoying... Also chariots (or at least the advanced versions) should have some kind of aoe dmg while moving. Maybe a short range mortis engine effect? Its kind of dangerous to be near a moving chariot whit the spinning blades and barding...

[@Debilinside]

@@fucku6556 I think Three Kingdoms had physic dmg or at least more than Warhammer 2 had. I'm really curious if these issues will be addressed properly or not, but CA tends to gets lazy... The biggest problem with this game that is not terribly bad, but could be SOOOOO much more with a bit of tweaking.

[@TheDinofou]

use the mammoth to pin the ennemies then cycle charge with the chariots + spam flamestorm and breath attacks. Don't know why legends didn't think of that combination. If the chariot charge into a shrine they'll get all the buff it provides aswell.

[@FuelDropforthewin]

The mammoths are the anvil. The chariots are the hammer. Classic hammer and anvil army.

[@AytonGang]

It’s a shame that neither cavalry, nor chariots, nor even elite infantry are really any good for campaign. I mean they can beat a single army, but on harder difficulties when the ai constantly has multiple armies to face, they’re just completed outmatched by SEM, artillery and ranged units. Personally I play on very hard campaign, hard battles, because even though I could beat harder difficulties, for me it’s no where near as fun as building a regular army, of like a lord and a hero, 6 infantry, 6 ranged, then a few cav or monsters.

[@raryraru]

usually you don't build up entire armies of them. They have their role and you shouldn't be all surprised pikachu when they are bad outside of that role.

[@CapybaraConnoisseur89]

Even on Normal difficulty they get shredded to pieces try to us Har Ganeth Executioners or Swordmasters of Hoeth against Ranged units.

[@raryraru]

Yeah but its your fault if that happens.

[@Crucial_End]

I agree on the whole the game is poorly designed when it comes to units, specifically their ability to perform an intended role.

[@raryraru]

@@Crucial_End they perform their intended role. Cav is for killing singled out units, ranged units, artillery, flanking, cycle charging.... Their most important role in total war is chasing fleeing units till they are dead or off the map. Just look at what your specific Cav unit is for and use it that way. They are NOT intended for being a meat wall or drawing archer fire. Thats on YOU to prevent!

[@ЦентурионГацийМуций]

BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION!

[@sirgaz8699]

I think you're thinking of the Goblin Wolf Chariots as early game units, Marauder Ice Wolf Chariots are a straight up upgrade over Marauder Chariots.

[@warhammerguy]

This stack hurt me. I would actually really like to see a Surtha Ek chariot doom stack. But the fact that it is an icewolf stack and Surtha himself isn't on a mount misses the entire point of the stack. Only people who played before the Norsca faction came remember the terror of those Chariot and troll stacks. The AI was making actual doomstacks by default instead of balanced armies as the AI usally does. Chariot stacks themselves are not very useful since it requires a lot of micro, but for the computer that have no issue microing 20 units at the exact same time made those stacks a god damn terror. Now that Legend has played this battle there is a real chance we will never see a doomstacks like this again.

[@euromanijak]

Surtha Ek on a mammoth ? 0/10

[@TheSunMoon]

Darth Surtha!

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

Can't wait for Slaneesh's chariot Doom Stack !

[@theovertaker40]

I get why legend doesn't like using other units when rating the stack but I like building stacks of single units and sometimes the other units have an important function to make that army work.

[@Abb0able]

Maybe not a doomstack but it does looks like fun to play... fun stack?

[@redtsun67]

Hear me out: a chariot, but instead of horses it's pulled by two mammoths, and the guy riding it is a Giant.

[@Nightstrid]

Surtha 10/10

[@mat7835]

The Norscan Ice Wolve chariot are much stronger than the regular chariot, with more Health, MA, Weapon Strength, Speed and an AP missile attack and the Fear and Frostbite debuff. So saying the regular chariot is better is way off.

[@futonrevolution7671]

To be fair, they checked after the battle, and agreed that IW chariots are better.

[@sim.frischh9781]

Takes out over 7000 enemies "Not adequate test" LOL Legend flexing with mere standards.

[@ehk5948]

7000 tier one skellies is meaningless. Any army with a decently leveled wizard does the same. Congrats the stack is better than literal garbage

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@ehk5948 I know, Legend said it himself in the beginning. But it was garbage WITH EXPERIENCE.

[@ehk5948]

@@sim.frischh9781 Still garbage. Makes them better in melee and that's about it. They burn just as easily

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@ehk5948 I didn´t claim otherwise.

[@ehk5948]

@@sim.frischh9781 Then why did you mention it?

[@ttestagr]

wouldn't the mammoth basically be there to go hit the enemy army and cause them to blob up so your chariots can just cycle charge a blob over and over again?

[@sadpee7710]

i feel like the cost/effect ratio should have elevated its score quite a bit. instead of 1 mammoth stack you could potentially have like 4 chariot stacks. granted that doesn't make it a better *doomstack* necessarily. because you'd like them to be able to hold their own without reinforcements. but still.

[@TheRavenofSin]

But the trait specifically says it buffs chaos chariots. Does that affect the marauder ice wolves chariots as well?

[@psydog6]

Maybe people should write how they intend to use their army, I sometimes build a skirmish army and withdraw after inflicting damage and go after them with another one since I don't want the game to be a select and repeat generator for every army

[@yanickkrause2974]

what is the shortcut/key combination legend uses at the begin of the battle to attack the whole enemy line instead of just one unit?

[@pietrocogliati9705]

He put them in a locked control group If i recall correctly is "ctrl g"

[@torquevonthorne948]

Those carrions had no brain to charge 2 frost wyrms... Oh wait they died long ago

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

Looks fun!

[@KazeKoichi]

Oh my, Legend giving less then 6/10.

[@lolhaha1921]

Me who doesn’t know who Surtha Ek is: interesting

[@deanbarton8960]

I loved the new shorts content

[@KP-co5io]

Whose the best starter hero?

[@Joyexer]

In general? Tyrion is good.

[@indrickboreale7381]

Lord Kroak is the best starter hero, obviously. Lore of Nuke is really strong

[@KP-co5io]

@@Joyexer I meant hero like Tyrion starts with a noble I think or Krog gar starts with a skink priest

[@KP-co5io]

@@indrickboreale7381 yhh true

[@Joyexer]

@@KP-co5io I actually didnt play Krog, so idk. I just quote Legend with Tyrion. I guess he said it in his last Ikit stream, that Tyrion probably is the easiest one to get into the game.

[@senshibat8920]

the good chariot rentals were gone at gatwick so he had to dip into the cheap leftovers lot? imagine GTA kislev baer chariots??

[@pangalaxar1991]

Rating a Surtha Ek Doomstack: ... ... ... ... ... ... BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION! /10

[@zduke5979]

Glowing wolves...nicce.

[@maciejtedeque8096]

How to control attac all units like in 3:42 ?

[@reeeeeeeeeeeeepr2362]

does Surtha Ek have anything unique in the yellow line that boost the Chariots?

[@gregsmw]

no his skill tree is standard norscan lord

[@dmitriyk.2890]

Asacfar as I knowe he just gets a chariot mount from lv. 1 and that is all.

[@voodoodummie]

A bit of history, once there weren't the norscan legendaries and I think there were only 2 norscan factions that acted independently from chaos, one of them was led by Surta Ek and for some reason the norscan AI was very fond of chariot spam which are stupidly annoying to fight against. Setra is the canonical master of chariots and can boost them. So the devs made two traits for one defeating the other solely as a meme. Surtha's trait is to give +100% weapon damage to chariots, but chariots are mid-tier at best.

[@reeeeeeeeeeeeepr2362]

@@voodoodummie lol GG CA, what is the trait that Settra get for defeating Surtha?

[@futonrevolution7671]

@@reeeeeeeeeeeeepr2362 Settra gets +10 chariot capacity and chariots in his army gain +10 armor.

[@Kilen_BE]

Not a doomstack, just not qualified for the test imo. Giving 4/10 seriously diminish the value of a 8 or 7 in comparison... there should be a mention “doomstack or not”, and rate them on 2 different scales, that would be more logical for the true doomstacks.

[@gregsmw]

i think the idea is anything under 5 is just not a doomstack a 10 is a "true doomstack" while a 1 would just be a "stack" and not remotly doomy

[@2ndcitysaint52]

just enjoy the memes man, not everything in total war needs to be so god damned serious

[@sstsaldana24]

Legends really doesnt like theis doomstack from what I've see so far. The squeeky voice came out!! 😆

[@Etrusx]

I just notced that mammuth trumpet. My eyes q.q

[@anonymous_coward]

I took down that army with a failed attempt at a doom stack using black coaches supplemented with a few anti-large and magic. It was a shit army with none of the units other than the lords and heroes leveled up and it only performed slightly worse than that chariot stack. That army shouldn't have given any score for the following reasons: a) The Black Pyramid's army sucks and can only be used for eliminating armies with no potential for doom. b) That campaign was set to large unit scale and that army was helped quite a bit from that.

[@doktarr]

You actually get a fourth chariot model per unit on ultra. Chariots aren't really helped by large unit scale the way single entities are.

[@anonymous_coward]

@@doktarr The thing that helps chariots on smaller unit scales is that they have an easier time breaking through formations and staying mobile due to there being fewer entities around. Fewer enemy entities means fewer entities to absorb charges and resist knock down, and then bog them down. Fewer chariot entities means fewer entities in the unit to get stuck, on each other, on enemies, and on other obstructions that then drags down the rest of the unit.

[@shirtlessviking9225]

next campaign livestream, try make a serious army, that you actually use with just wizard and lord... You could probably win lol

[@ListenAndDie]

he tested the ariel + sisters of twilight doomstack

[@minhpn5711]

Settra's unique trait is not that great because the day Suthar Ek defeat Settra, it was the greatest day in his life but when Settra defeat Suthar Ek, it was Tuesday.

[@Amyante]

Total War: Carmageddon

[@tristanitus9921]

Please rate my Bladesinger doomstack! Big love

[@svenbrede6151]

If only Surtha Ek boosted the dmg of chariot mounts.

[@vigil2150]

Surtha Ek boosts Chariots? I've played Norsca more than any other faction in the game and I never even noticed that.

[@Viryu9]

Surtha's armies tended to recruit mostly chariot units, hence the meme. I think it was dimmed down in one of the earlier updates, I don't remember now.

[@Ashandorath]

There is an easter egg trait. If Surtha Ek beats Settra the imperishable, he gets a special trait that boosts chariots. Settra also gets a unique trait if he beats Surtha Ek. The whole thing is a nod to an older warhammer meme. In warhammer 1 norsca originally had a very limited roster, and Surtha ek (and norsca in general) tended up with armies consisting only of chariots.

[@voodoodummie]

@@Ashandorath to add to you comment, the AI is actually pretty good with chariots and cavalry because of its micromanagement.

[@7337simi]

Frost Wyrm slow enemies underneath it

[@crochetcocoking4275]

i rate this meme/10

[@sawtooth6679]

id be more impressed of a chariot spam army from another faction that has life magic with decent chariots, even though this has a surtha ek buff basically HE chariots maybe? hell gorebeast chariots > this

[@ballbatboy]

You may as well get rid of the Legend part of your name if you need to be explained how an army should work.

[@wisp6826]

In Troy chariots should be overpowered. Otherwise it would be historically inaccurate.

[@andy4455]

Then an Arrow to the face should be insta kill or Else it would be inaccurate

[@wisp6826]

@@andy4455 medieval 2 really sucked with their focus on heavy cav. Terrible game 0/10

[@lenkagamine4145]

@@andy4455 Extremely wrong, arrows were historically extremely inneffective against heavy infantry in full armor. Armored infantry are borderline impervious to arrow fire.

[@thehunter8714]

I mean it's called a doomstack/spam for a reason, you can spam a unit without putting much thought into it, of cause you can put thought into it but most won't

[@cynicalpsycho5574]

Can someone explain the surtha ek meme to me please?

[@albericdecarrere8436]

I'm not entirely sure but I think he used to be really op with chariots and I'm even less sure but he used to be the actual lord of end times in the game (pls correct me if I'm wrong I'm interested in the answer too)

[@ProfessorHanger]

Surtha Eks AI tends to recruit only cavalry-type units, especially chariots I believe, and his AI tended to use them very well. Being a Norscan faction leader in Warhammer 1 meant that you're going to see him a lot.

[@BigBoneBusiness]

Before Norsca was made into its own faction, the settlements up there representing Norsca just used a gutted version of the Warriors of Chaos roster. The AI seemed to like recruiting the strongest unit it could, and without anything like Chaos Warriors, Chosen, Dragon Ogres, etc., the AI would just send stacks of chariots at you, Surtha Ek in particular. I remember one of my first attempts playing Total Warhammer 1, I was playing Karl Franz when Surtha Ek and his chariot legion sails down the river to shit on Altdorf. Combined with the old Norsca diplomacy dialogue which was very goofy and hammy, Surtha Ek quickly became a meme.

[@cynicalpsycho5574]

@@BigBoneBusiness Awesome! Thanks

[@dr.vanilla9017]

@@BigBoneBusiness Not to mention I've seen him attack marienburg with marauder horsemen spam and somehow win.

[@morechris4ugaming457]

3 minutes in with the thumbs up

[@IZn0g0uDatAll]

Meme stack >>>>>>>>>>> Doom stack

[@Bangeres357]

first

[@indrickboreale7381]

To die under chariot's wheel

[@jaydenjackson8618]

Fourth

[@TheBlackSwordsman8]

First

[@grimgorironhidedabestdamas3602]

NoOneCares

[@TheSunMoon]

First to not be swallowed.

[@UCeagle79]

It's starting to get really tiring to hear Legend just shit on any "doomstack" that isn't his. Like this is an amazing army. the dragons and mammoths are for any large monsters and to have some balance. You didn't even realize till you saw that wolf chariots are better in every way. They are a 1/3 the price of mammoths. Legend really can't and won't fight with any armies he doesn't like.

[@Jeryyyyyy875]

So don't watch the videos.

[@Nathrezim0]

So just bring mammoths instead so you dont have to bother microing chariots AND your anti-large units. Not like the upkeep matters at all as Norsca once you get to that point.

[@ingold1470]

But supply lines being an additive multiplier means that many "cheap" armies are more expensive than 2/3rds the number of expensive ones.

[@futonrevolution7671]

Norsca's all about reducing the percentage of its upkeep, not the flat cost.