Raven Speaks Out on Leaving TSM & Possible Re-sign

[@kzuuu_tv]

my guess is that TSM lowballed his offer after restructuring the org, so he wants to see if he gets more money elsewhere.

[@ReFLexX_ii]

Faze/SSG👀

[@David.77]

Yeah, the "looking for other options" aka "looking for a good deal." As they say, business is business

[@ThorHiney210]

Oh for sure. Tsm has like 5 staff now outside of their esports. Very likely Raven is exploring options while waiting for tsm to get their shit together and offer him what he’s worth 😂

[@crusadering4772]

@@ThorHiney210 looks to me like hes worth 17th place

[@ThorHiney210]

@@crusadering4772 1.3 million you mean

[@samlasalle3853]

It's crazy to me that people don't understand a contract ending and someone wanting to look for a new project. It is such a reasonable thing to want/do so the fact that everyone is trying to find drama in this is ridiculous.

[@CountryKirby.]

U gotta understand the fan base

[@Tury1799]

It’s crazy how gaming causes drama like this lol.

[@tyrellturner5602]

Your thought process would make sense were it not for the fact that TSM is indisputably the most successful team in the history of professional Apex No other team has won as many LAN’s as them. And they are one of only 2 teams that has won ALGS multiple times Him moving to any other team ( except for DEBATABLY Dark Zero) would be a downgrade professionally. Because he would be working with less decorated ( and arguably less skilled) players Either there is drama going on that we don’t know about. Or it’s a money issue. Those are the only logical reasons he wouldn’t resign with TSM ( assuming he’s telling the truth about being offered the opportunity to resign and declining)

[@gandrod50]

Yeah I swear people haven't had a job

[@gandrod50]

​@tyrellturner5602 coaches leave Real Madrid all the time this doesn't make any sense are you dumb

[@nojithan]

Imagine thinking anyone gave a fuck who he was before signing with TSM

[@soldiers360]

Exactly, he literally joined a championship team. And bro thinks it was all him lol

[@jessed5057]

My thoughts exactly like a world champ fighters coach thinking he is the actual champ not the fighter….. ego is massive

[@mcfliermeyer]

@@soldiers360god so true

[@MsPango123]

To be fair, he was a big reason TSM kept winning after their falloff pre-Raven

[@nojithan]

@@MsPango123He took the pressure off Hal, simple as that imo. Also, none of the other teams had coaches back then, now they do and are steamrolling TSM

[@luckorski1181]

He's def coaching MOIST or SSG

[@ReFLexX_ii]

Forsure only 3rd option I see is Faze since they decided to stay in apex

[@tyrellturner5602]

Moist is still dealing with visa issues. They couldn’t even represent there org at LAN. No smart coach would go anywhere near them. That team is a legal and logistical nightmare

[@sparkyenergia]

@@tyrellturner5602 Only for lan being held in the USA. London was fine.

[@zeronin4696]

​@@tyrellturner5602 what are you talking about? Its not moists fault with the visas. Blame the US border for being dumb. Some other big esports titles like Valorant and CS I think had issues with visas too

[@tyrellturner5602]

@@zeronin4696 I never said that its Moist's fault What you don't understand is that it doesn't matter whose fault it is. The problem is still there regardless. And until they get it figured out it wouldn't make sense for a coach to work with them. Because there are a dozen other teams that need a coach and don't have this problem

[@cdv1qa]

If he is so good, why did TSM come 17th?

[@Simple.Wordless]

Raven didn’t do much let’s be honest 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@HDPS3GAMES]

Bro hal literally said the opposite, stop chatting

[@Simple.Wordless]

@@HDPS3GAMES he’s running cover

[@Lucas_Stradeus]

What's with his attitude. So arrogant, as if he were the most valued person on planet Earth. He was supposed to be a grown man, not a spoiled teenager.

[@brettlynch2707]

it's your pug passed out in the background for me, biiiig chillin

[@rwmikarawn1435]

That boy high asf enjoying life

[@ba460]

Bros jus yapping he joined a championship org and didn't get resigned, that's all it is

[@zacwallis9078]

they 100% offered him a new contract and it was lowballed and he said nah

[@sparkyenergia]

Did anyone know of Raven before he signed with TSM? I didn't so I'm going to assume TSM signed him for a pretty ecconomical amount of money. Now that his contract is up he will hit up other big teams perhaps even one that has previously left the Apex scene like NRG etc.

[@TheMikeMassengale]

He was probably expensive for an apex coach. He wasn't a big name in the community but he was a decently big name in the comp scene. I used to watch his KZbin all the time.

[@AnonJ777]

Yes he was known for using glitches to give his team advantages and got caught multiple times and when he was signed to TSM he was using the same glitches till he got caught and got called out but got away with it and then the glitches he used was patched like a month after. He was legit known as a cheater. It was widely know there were many videos of people talking about it with proof of him in discords talking about and videos of him telling TSM where people were because of the glitch.

[@israelgonzalez8769]

Apex coach is a joke lol who ever pays for that is dumb

[@mattjtx93]

This dude coached a talented roster to a 17th place finish in LAN finals and is acting like he’s got options….LOLLLLL

[@twocontollersonebrain9071]

Everyone talking about how TSM got 17th don’t forget about all the massive wins they’ve had along with over 500k winnings to TSM, yes I agree he is cocky but it’s not like he’s cocky out of thin air he has a solid background of wins

[@Uafoe]

bro this guy ego is wild

[@ro9387]

I mean he is a ALGS champ

[@jitchell8486]

@@ro9387that’s no reason to have an ego. Especially when he’s a coach aka strategist. Kinda like being a top tier settlers of catan player.

[@henry3397]

It’s normal, in any other field a coach or professional is allowed to save face and be allowed to resign rather than be fired, so why can’t he?

[@g_ball321]

Imagine no team picks him up and he has to make a team cause he wants to much

[@soldiers360]

@@ro9387 He also took over a championship team, with the best IGL, 2 of the best fraggers and a great support player. He wasn't successful with his previous team.

[@moedeez7654]

Raven is classic came into a great team took credit for the win they got on their own with him behind them and now that he’s fully involved and they lose it’s clear he ain’t shit.

[@zombiedeathrays8862]

When he joined TSM they were flailing and he implemented some things that changed coaching in ALGS. So I think he did have a major impact, though more recently I think other teams caught up so not so much anymore. Just my opinion though.

[@moedeez7654]

@@zombiedeathrays8862 I don’t disagree with you but prior to him Hal and reps already had titles under their name despite their 3rd. Evan was a huge addition and while he make have taken the bulk of macro work from the team and let them mesh him leaving is a bad look. Who knows the future of the org in apex and if that’s the reason he left cool. Leaving after a loss is just shady to me.

[@zombiedeathrays8862]

@@moedeez7654 Yep, just not what you wrote originally. But yah, I don't think he has been as effective recently as he was in the past.

[@XENOX-777]

​@@moedeez7654 TSM had titles and were doing well, but they started to fall off slightly at some point. Raven+the addition of verhulst helped them become more aggressive and win more tournaments. You can see it in the difference between their new gameplay and old gameplay where they camped spots a lot more and didn't go for enough kp.

[@dashtfied8508]

I don't think 95% people knew about Raven to be a hater of him before TSM signed him. Probably most wouldn't have cared much about him just would have wished him luck for the future. Let's be honest people care mainly about the main roster. It's the clear arrogance and over confidence in his speech is what setting people off. Maybe he already has a contract big chungus enough which is giving him this outrageous ego boost. Looking for a better payout is always understandable but over selling yourself isn't the best thing to do. Bro acting like he owns the scene.

[@vagabondcaleb8915]

E8 most likely. Maybe DSG if he thinks Timmy boost his stonks. Maybe o7 if he really wants to play with Gnaske. Maybe Optic/Faze if they want to build around Raven.

[@Beepus12]

He said NA so o7 is out. Optic left Apex. Faze doesn't have a team currently and no pro league spot.

[@jessed5057]

Nobody “building around raven” or any coach lmaooooo such a clown take he maybe counts for 5% off their success the rest is on the pros playing not the guy who couldn’t even make it as a pro lmao

[@fettilaflare2249]

@@jessed5057 Look at the teams that played lan with a coach & the ones who didnt, and you'll see the impact of a coach, its a reason DZ & TSM had them. But either way saying they're useless is such a casual take.

[@javiderivia4224]

​@@jessed5057he is a pro wtf are you talking about 😂

[@zombiedeathrays8862]

If money is the issue Faze and C9 are the only orgs with similar amounts of cash as TSM, and C9 only one of those with a roster. But he reacted the most to Moist... maybe they are getting resigned or picked up?

[@RegularDude]

Ever since this dude was on Twitter cheering about T2 Pros being kicked out of tournaments for liking Nickmercs Tweet, I never had an inkling of respect for the guy. Still don't, either. If he's the "best coach in Apex" the next team he gets put on better place Top 8 at LAN, otherwise dude loses all credibility.

[@jessed5057]

The coach aspect is completely overhyped he maybe and I say MAYBE 5% of the actual success of tsm in apex

[@jordoncardinal7817]

everytime i watched TSM it was Hal saying we should have did this or that and go hard on evan or jordan and raven just agreeing.. i question whether hes a legit coach

[@jessed5057]

Yeah acting like TSM the best team in history needs this guy who couldn’t even be a pro himself……

[@mrteata6866]

It’s because raven as a coach has a specific role that Hal brought him on to do. Which is to come up with MACRO strats, which if you dk what that means it just means rotations, looting path not just for the team but for your opponents as well. ppl don’t realise how important this is to get god spots/good loot before final zones. apex pro scene its not just “i shoot gun, enemies go brrr, i am champion” like you neanderthals think. Do me a favor and develop some ridges in your brain will ya ?

[@veqad2242]

oh gods sake, how about ima gonna comment about u being bad at ur job when i know 0 shit what u do behind computer screen. u are wasting time and braincells with guessing whats happening in the backgrounds and listens to few comms and go ''oh this guy is doing nothing''

[@giangiang]

All these chatter about TSM wanting that LOL spot so bad is making me think TSM is going to drop the APEX team (that's why raven wasn't resigned), Reps and Evan will be free agents and Hal would be a content creator for TSM and be on a pro team (Much like what Timmy is doing signed with 100T and playing pro with DSG). Another crazy one is that, they get dropped and NRG resigns them. If this happens, shit gone full circle. lmao

[@Croagge]

If that happens thats the last straw for me. I’ve been supporting TSM as an org since 2014, and I’ve stuck with them even with the 700 million stupid fucking decisions Regi has made. The Apex team and Leffen are the only players in the org that still win them trophies, and if they drop the Apex team just to play LoL in Korea and bomb like Regi always ends up causing, I’m done with the org

[@giangiang]

@@Croagge I feel you dude. I've been an fan of OG eversince (Their Prime CS days) and was glad when they signed a pro apex team but I've always been TSM fan for Apex. If Hal, Reps and Verhulst will not play together, I'm going to quit watching comp. It's like the 90's bulls breaking up, didn't watch basketbal until Kobe and Shaq dominated the league.

[@jackwaters7775]

​@@Croaggeweird seeing ppl bring up leffen or any melee player lol. Is that game still popping off? I love melee but I haven't even played it in years...

[@YYung]

tsm is not gonna drop them. they are playing for tsm in world cup. the whole team btw

[@gpauldejesus]

they’re the most successful org in all of apex, one of the most dominant esport teams in any game lmao they’re not going to drop them

[@fromtheheartpodcast8965]

Raven coaching a team with Hal is like anyone trying to coach a team with Lebron on it . Thats a tough scenario

[@FarewellOrwell]

Your ego needs to humble thyself

[@lovernatz]

i always think its strange to have an apex coach lol

[@Miguel-fz8ol]

we all know he was straight dissin Mac talking about mentally stable. cmon now 🤣

[@mc_squared]

I am going to say it. I really don't like Ravens attitude.

[@gpauldejesus]

Jesus, this dude is a bit insufferable isn’t he this all seems like a stupid negotiation tactic to get the contract he wants from TSM, plus bro is loving all this attention and speculation

[@CountryKirby.]

That’s smart for his career, when your contract is up you explore options that’s sets you up for the future.

[@anhpham2733]

Soccer players do this too. It's sports bro

[@badassmexican9479]

It’s smart wym you the type to work hard for cheap and complain

[@ImKhaos.]

i really hope he doesnt join DZ bc i think hed honestly make them worse

[@scottsycamore8209]

The dog in the background is my spirit animal.

[@xomenace999]

1:02 was just about to type LG lol

[@dark_tracker]

Sad to see you leave TSM if you do go. I thought you fit in so well with the team. But best of luck any org will be lucky to have you

[@KingManeTV]

DSG?

[@zenibas_seal]

I feel like he’s still going to do worse with a new team

[@cb7636]

holy brownie that guy is annoying af

[@Wasappiii]

I calling it, TSM dropping whole team and leaving apex. the team stays together

[@mehhhhhhhh2215]

Having a coach for apex is legitimately fucking stupid.

[@GirthosaurusRex]

This is grass is always greener type

[@JustinNard]

Why people hating on raven? It was a good relationship and everybody learned a lot.

[@Valarizator]

Because he needs to be humbled

[@JustinNard]

@@Valarizator he’s earned it to feel that way.

[@veqad2242]

u all haters on raven really needs tinted glasses for calling him arrogant in this video. its either jealousy or u simply dont like him no matter what, go outside and touch some grass seriously. there was nothing disgusting how he spoke about his situation, ppl really needs to chill out

[@mariankowalski9797]

They dont need a coach...

[@bradleyhenry2411]

I dont think TSM should resign after what happened this split. Do i think he finds a team? Yes easily. Will he get a raise? Most likely no, not with the current esports market.

[@Spectrasweapon1]

TSM is dropping Apex, which makes everyone in TSM FA except for Hal who stays as content creator. This allows Hal to still join a different team together with the rest. Hal already said today that HE isnt leaving TSM. Possible teams might be NRG, 100Thieves or maybe (?) Faze, but highly doubt the last one

[@deki5616]

Brother tsm isn't dropping apex comp it's literally their one of their popular teams fans their milking their fans on merch cuz their tsm fans dummy

[@mrteata6866]

Source : Trust me bro 🤡

[@Spectrasweapon1]

@@deki5616 They're getting 10mil per match in league meanwhile Apex isnt generating more than 2 mil, obviously this could be a possibility.

[@SithAssassin]

He was let go Yes contract was up but he didn’t get resigned So they let him go not the other way around 🤣

[@heygarebear]

he's defintely trying to talk himself up

[@danielcampbell1357]

He already told everybody his contract was up and he wanted to explore different options

[@sharbs9368]

Glad he’s gone

[@giangiang]

L take, Pandemic TSM was the worse version of TSM. When Raven took over coaching they won 2 titles in a year! People like you don't give credit to Raven as it is, he basically opened up the coaching meta and realized most teams can't do it on talent alone. I'm not saying he's the first coach a team (PVPX, SeaLion, ZZ etc.,) but TSM's popularity helped coaches get the attention they deserve.

[@jackwaters7775]

​@@giangiangI think it's just people being uneducated. Ignorance is often just due to a misunderstanding of the information. Most people don't realize how much impact raven makes because you don't see him playing.

[@jackwaters7775]

​@@giangiangyou definitely said what I was thinking better than I could lol

[@blitz_5612]

wait why does raven and sweet have beef

[@jamesmcfadden5214]

Wait, the poi draft is real?

[@jr5296]

Does he not like sweet or is he trolling? Is it about the data mine issue?

[@JOE808AG]

Koy and Raven going to SSG. Calling it now. Come back and like this comment once it happens lol

[@scags365]

I just like the pup in the back

[@nitceu]

"worldclass" mentioned = SoaR Hollow gonna play in ALGS (im just saying random shit)

[@swapnilm.parmar7280]

Hal gave off "i give up" feeling during this LAN. they might not say it publicly.. but TSM are just burnt out with each other.. if all of them are Free Agents, i wouldn't be surprised if TSM just blows up the team and leave apex to focus on some other Esports.

[@swapnilm.parmar7280]

keep in mind there are 9 employees working in TSM. they honestly dont have enough resources.

[@MustafaKhan-hg8lu]

Calling it rn TSM is doing some massive merger or someone's getting saudi money to form a super team

[@Croagge]

Raven pulling a Neymar rn

[@franka2315]

So arrogant it’s unreal

[@Euphoriant]

my guess would be optic/ssg

[@twocontollersonebrain9071]

He’s probably gonna go to moist the have a decent comp of players they just need better execution

[@IamJacksColon4]

the way raven talks its as if tsm is leaving apex

[@IamJacksColon4]

I think C9 is the best fit, strong fighting team in need of Macro help.

[@akeemstewart8083]

Why do you even need a coach to play a video game?

[@jlockz7061]

As a bro from Australia and a DZ Fan….I don’t care about this news. Fk TSM 😂

[@bal7530]

Come on man!!! You've blue ball us! I'm fucking hurt right now, spill out the beans

[@pariah5113]

People act like this is weird I fail to see how? The Vitality coach left after they won RLCS world championships to see what else he could accomplish , plus TSM as an org has been having a lot of money problems and at the end of the day it's still a business he is here to make money using his talents

[@ultrapotus]

Play whatever is insane to hear from a coach 😂

[@BOKBrand]

bro your pug was straight passed tf out in the back.

[@guccibangs9216]

Bruh i qatched like 10 separate ads on this video wtf.

[@TheNewThrone]

Yeah he is a good coach but he is also annoying af and his ego is bigger than his talent

[@YEETYfrmXBOX]

They’re all just gonna leave tsm and follow raven to another org lol

[@emmettwoodward7631]

OXG or something… nobody would’ve guessed that

[@oneounceslugAPEX]

Who is this guy?

[@itsprod.472]

Can see him moving to SSG if he still wants to pursue Coaching lol

[@deanz_]

DSG would make sense logistically. But it's not likely.

[@javiderivia4224]

Raven tatto is a$$ 😂 bro is a great coach hope the best for him

[@apexlegends9348]

Kpop songs in the background?

[@JoeCarroll77]

I think his next team is ssg for some reason

[@aussieguy9070]

Why do people care?

[@unscarred444]

This guy had a bad showing all split and he thinks hes on termto demand lol

[@elwinsosa2860]

Ngl tsm was better because of him

[@HJOTech]

It's moist 100%

[@ialhaj6424]

Wait he’s actually leaving TSM

[@djoerrr]

TSM's current roster is not staying together

[@reybeltran1209]

Do people not understand what contracts are?

[@gilbertogutierrez1605]

Watch him coach notmoist

[@skawattle1213]

Bring back TSM couch Dolphn

[@mrredbeard594]

Not Moist

[@bradleyhenry2411]

They ain't letting Draugr go.

[@AintPopular]

Lower pay cut

[@f2punkown12]

I think TSM is leaving apex

[@tee-boppin_em8147]

When someone thinks they're a genius 😂😂

[@imoisture903]

dsg or moist

[@_Channel1_]

This game has coaches😂😂😂😂😂😂.

[@terpgawd4018]

Yeah raven that’s def a dig at Tsm. Goofy weirdo

[@buffalobill7595]

Ohhh now make sense kkkk

[@ohCorz]

Kobe

[@samyarbrough545]

why does Raven not like Sweet?

[@royalpoop5122]

its banter

[@RegularDude]

@@royalpoop5122 It's not banter. Sweet accused Raven of "cheating" in a sense and withholding information in terms of Zone Mining to give TSM an edge. Raven has also consistently trash talked Sweet and numerous other pros behind the scenes (Dezign, Dropped, multiple others) despite him being nowhere near their level in terms of skill - he essentially rode the coattails of being signed to TSM and talked down to Pros that were not on TSM. It is definitely not banter. They hate eachother.

[@veqad2242]

@@RegularDude shocker, when u represent a team, he is defending team and trashtalking about other teams/players. tell me who doesnt have ''hate/love'' relationship in apex scene. thats one big pile of history btw

[@djoerrr]

it's so obvious TSM's current roster isn't even staying together. Hal is gonna play with Zer0 mark my words.

[@Aesirskal]

That doesnt make any sense

[@Destruction52]

If that happens, apex pro scene might be over

[@DH-pd8iw]

No chance Hal joins zero.

[@kurtramos59]

@@DH-pd8iw ha. I'll be back here when that happens. You can never say never.

[@djoerrr]

@@DH-pd8iw save this thread

[@nothing8900]

noob got booted out , ntng much lmao

[@IMABUZ]

He’s trash lol

[@Themobbdeepzz]

he's going back to Tsm 200%

[@joemarrivera6511]

Does anybody really give a fuck

[@jr5296]

Yes.

[@keeley1333ify]

they did better without him tbh. I think where ever raven goes that team will lose....

[@djoerrr]

yeah they did better without him. They got 1st 2nd first at a year of ALGS without him. Hal definitely didn't go on stream to say he might leave TSM 1 month before raven.

[@Spectrasweapon1]

He literally save them from their previous downfall to win multiple PLs and LANs, what the hell are you talking about? Or are you missinformed thinking that Raven joined this split? 😂