The Benefit of History (Saving For Honor's Lore)

[@chibipotate]

Gotta agree with you here, Even in For Honors original story, We had a fairly... Down to Earth sides-wide story, Where the good guys that the Warden reformed to attack apollyon, Are all the Knights that disagreed with Apollyon killing people in the streets and constantly pushing them into battle... They disliked that, so they joined our good guys, The story never dismissed the fact that just a few years earlier all these knights were bloodthirsty mercenaries and warlords, It just simply posited that Apollyon was worse, And in the end she was the instigator that made all our protagonists start a decades long faction war. And there was even some interesting moral stuff going on, Because as much as all the Mercenaries and Knights hated constantly having to fight and defected, All the Peasants and the like who didnt call themselves wolves though? They had it great, Aside from some verbal abuse and martial law, They practical loved it under Apollyon, It at least had stability without changing laws and leaders every few months like under the Warlords, And there was even more greyness and security in the world, With all those lines about how even with the Iron Legion long defunct, All the kingdoms of the knights beyond ashfeld still sent tribute, Which the Blackstones took despite their confusion, Its all a really interesting story where whilst people are Antagonists and Protagonists, Its difficult to say any are entirely in the wrong or in the right, We cant say anyone is justified, Because even for the Staying-Outta-Business Samurai... They werent always like that, And if we trust apollyon, They hog and colonised almost all space off-map, Landlocking everyone else with little hope of expanding seaward, The knights? Maybe justified against the Vikings but... How long ago was it that the Knights occupied their ancestral land?... just to be butchered starved, beaten and kicked off it? and how long ago was it that the vikings returned home and found knights tearing down their towns and cities to set up their own? Not to mention the fact we are told that along the coasts of ashfelds knights, There are genuine generation-old viking villages... Are they invaders? It draws such a solid line of not knowing There is so much History in For Honor that the line of payback no longer exists, Its like that mindless ancestrally-linked type of Conflict we find in Italian City-States later on, Where the initial reason for the conflict has become so buried that no one remembers why... Remember that original cinematic trailer? A conflict first over water growing into all out senseless bloody warfare long after everyone has redeveloped into their nations just because... why? Because no one stopped to wonder why not, It was such a interesting premise but now?... "Uhhhh bad-witch lady stabbed man and stole thing, and now man join war"

[@archie143]

love the idea of the aztecs being mental, and following them to heathmore just to get a fresh supply of sacrifices

[@primarchstar2087]

As someone who plays death cultists in Stellaris... I feel personally attacked/s 😅

[@madmunchkin7878]

If Ubisoft had put half as much thought into their game as you have, For Honor would be a pinnacle of story-telling. Even before playing the game, I found your ideas to be inspirational and interesting. Your videos have always been well planned and thought out, and your stories are deep and beautiful. Thank you for being a voice of reason above the wave of stupidity and carelessness that many content creators cling to!

[@frederickfreaker2211]

The lack of historical accuracy wouldn’t be such a big deal if they didn’t market the game as historically accurate in the first place. Now there’s a large divide between players who started in the early years who enjoy the more realistic aspects and push for less of the pseudo-magical and just magical abilities and the people who joined in the later years who don’t really care because it’s a game. All of this because Ubi marketed the game as historically accurate and has been trying to move away from that since.

[@pandirex7762]

I noticed they changed the lore of some previous seasons. For example the lore from the year of the harbinger. At first the Black Priors 'returned' from their 'exile'. Then the Hitokiri, some bunch of murderous Samurai executioners with big axes, that went mad. The Jørmengandr are crazy vikings with hammers, that are praying to a big snake. The Zhanhu were alchemists of the Wu-Lin and got attacked by Blackstones. Now these four heroes are the last minute card of all these four factions, because the lore writers wanted to summarize the lore with the coming of a second cataclysm.

[@thediamondcutter9185]

If i can give the benefit of the doubt, the daily orders don't make seem the "Prisoner" look like a good guy without sin, but depict him constantly as someone creepy that feels like he's waiting for something big to happen. Maybe Horkos with their quest for gold fucked up something big and the Aztec warriors were just waiting for an excuse to do some chaos or fucked up things. Tl dr: big bad guy Horkos found out there's something even bigger and badder than them and now they're forced to fix everything with Chimera in a momentary alliance. Who knows.

[@RavenKnightYT]

My guess is this: Horkos disturbed or stole the gold and this unleashed an Aztec curse. The prisoner knows this and is amused because he knows that soon Horkos will suffer as a result of the curse. We'll have to see

[@thediamondcutter9185]

@@RavenKnightYT yeah kinda similar to what I think. I would honestly find really cool a situation where the Big Evil faces a Bigger Evil. I'm for simple things sometimes lol

[@badgamemaster]

Also why is a Horkos Samurai not out doing bad... why is it only Heroes from Europa?

[@lurkerextraordinaire8220]

At this point Raven might as well write the for Honour lore for them, my man was just spitballing idea’s and that still sounded better than anything the writers at Ubisoft has written 💀

[@harveysidhu7030]

I said this once and I'll say it again. Ubisoft needs you in the writer's room Raven. They need to see this video.

[@mal1362]

To be fair, the lore didn't say the Afeera defeated Ravier easily the lore order alluded that it was a tough fight. Still i find it poor that the Afeera weren't overwhelmed by the prior considering that the Afeera really only spar against eachother and rarely go out to invade and defeat their enemies before they can come and attack them.

[@ZacharyDarkes]

That's how broken the lore is. There is no way the Horkos Black Priors would lose to a small group of outsiders especially if they are being lead by the second in command of the Horkos Black Priors.

[@Blackstonelegion]

The Direction of For Honor's lore has been Disappointing to say the least, I think the problems really started when they first introduced the Outlanders. Dont get me wrong I do enjoy the outlander heros and they are fun to play as. The problem is that it seems like every Outlander (With the exception of Pirate) has to be a Good guy character and it gets repetitive really quick.

[@DakaloMaedza-z4m]

They could've stuck with astrea your number 1 fan and story would be better so much potential has been lost with your second

[@GreatHornedCynic]

I argue it started going downhill with the introduction of the Horkos Vs. Chimera conflict.

[@DateMasamune1636]

@@GreatHornedCynicagreed

[@SomeWeirdNinjaToon]

It is also a bit concerning that they focus on off-worlders, instead of balancing the factions. As a knight, I feel genuinly bad that we have nine heroes, and the vikings and samurai only have 8 (yes because I count the new upcoming viking character). Off-worlders are cool in a way that they experiment with other civilizations, but For Honor has been first advertized as Knights vs Vikings vs Samurai (and then plus the Wu Lin and Off-worlders) and the lack of balance within the three OG factions is a bit sad. Plus, I am truly saddened that we don't get enirely new maps these days. While the old ones look good with their reskins, it feels bland because we have played them for years now.

[@DateMasamune1636]

@@SomeWeirdNinjaToon And the Wu Lin only have 5 heroes and plus they have been shafted for the past 3 years, but let’s hope for season 3

[@revan6441]

I would love if For Honor was more historical. In the lore, the armor, the way hero’s fight. 😔 I wish we had historical armor for the heroes. Historically accurate Viking fighting a Roman legionary. Samurai fighting a Italian style knight. That’d be nice… I hope the Mesoamerican hero has some historical armor and weapons.

[@RedCrusader-ph2vk]

Angry Joe boiled down For Honor's story to: Chapter 1: Knights VS Vikings. Chapter 2: Vikings VS Samurai. Chapter 3: Samurai VS Knights. So, I went into the game with low expectations. After playing the campaign, I have to wonder if Joe even bothered paying attention to what was going on, because the writing contains a much more nuance than he lead me to believe.

[@mkdemigodzillawarrior]

Yeah, I have to agree with you on that. This is dragging a lot longer than it really should. Plus I really do wish the Chimera took the initiative and actually try to reach out to get allies themselves rather than waiting for Horkos to bring them to Heathmoor somehow. I mean, maybe this could be a good reason to bring in an Indian hero!

[@jamesvarela233]

Tbf Ubisoft isn’t gonna realistically listen to out two cents when it comes to their lore in For Honor and how bad their writers are. I don’t think they really ever care at all as long as the money and players are still playing in their game or spending on the season pass.

[@spadeofpain24]

"For Honor": the game that became "For the Script"/"For Tropes"

[@kielbasamage]

To be fair, tropes themselves aren’t inherently bad. They’re tools, and whether they’re good or terrible is based entirely on the writers skills or one’s tolerance due to overexposure. Now you can argue they’re overplayed, but frankly, I’ve seen so many writers try to “subvert expectations” and fight their own audience that playing things straight almost feels like the real twist.

[@Texan8505]

10:17 Wait… Apollyon was a stereotype? Of what?

[@dynasty7298]

Of fantastic writing

[@stupendousjj8398]

History to me is like a kaleidoscope of events that happened in the past, whichever way u “rotate” it there will always be different perspectives from many people

[@williambaldwin6779]

I said this years ago and I think it might’ve saved the lore a long while back. With every new season they had a campaign expansion that not only kept the og story characters but also brough the new ones in it would’ve been perfect. Gave us a decent idea of whats going on and kept us to why we are fighting in for honor. Also I really do miss the original faction hero trailers rather than the cinematics. I could be getting to nostalgic sadly.

[@ulfberht4431]

My thoughts exactly Raven. The writing is very childish and the fact they are lacking in nuance just makes me feel sad that this is how the quality of For Honor has come to. I worry that the writers are either replaced by or are monitored by leftist higher ups. Because leftism in movies and video games is the new cancer- ur, I mean, norm (speaking as a centralist).

[@aaronburnett2261]

I love your ideas. Making ppl think and have a hard time choosing sides is very mature and extremely intriguing!

[@Wanderer-nw2so]

Raven, I would like to share for you my idea for this season’s story It starts when Astria here’s old tales from the Vikings about great warriors to the west across the great sea, wearing leopard Pelts and feathers and residing in a vast and dense forest. Astria would see these warriors as prime recruits for Horkos, and send one of her disciples general Vela and 30 soldiers on three ships to find them. The Horkos navigator plots a route using old Viking maps to sail to Iceland then sail west until they reach Vineland. After sailing on vineland’s coast for six months they think they arrived at the right spot. In a hidden Cove. They disembark and make camp, Vela plans to send a scouting party the next day. At sunrise she sends her scouts into the jungle, they later report back that they found strange corpses with their hearts missing. Vela is a little off put by this, it appears reminiscent of the servants of the stake’s sacrifices, Vela wanted see this for herself. She joins her scouts the next morning, as the group walk through the underbrush they see smoke in the distance, a good sign. As they get closer they start to hear screams and burning wood. the Warriors creep up silently to the edge of the clearing, they watch as brigands wearing what looks like leopard Pelts and wielding strange swords sack a village. Vela smiles wildly underneath her helmet, “the legends are true” she thought “they were already wolves themselves” “they would make a perfect addition to horkos.” After the Brigands left, vela and her warriors take a few of the remaining villagers back to their camp. They were able to communicate with a sign language of sorts, they asked for anyone that could be a guide. They find one but takes some convincing for him to take them to those Brigands. “These Silver warriors are fools” the guide thought to himself as he guided the whole horkos force to the Jaguars city. Vela sees fear on their guide’s face, what’s wrong? She signaled, “these warriors take us for sacrifices” he signaled back. What kind of sacrifices? The killing kind. As long as you’re with us they won’t put a hand on you Vela signals back. They arrive at a great lake with a city with farmland that seem to float on the water, with temples that jut from the lake like mountains with statues of snakes and half human, half animal hybrids doting them with a city untouched by the cataclysm of such scale painted in exquisite colors it was the greatest thing many of them had ever seen. The guide somehow managed to get an audience with the warriors leader, the negotiations we’re going well and the warlord was agreeing to an alliance with horkos. But suddenly one of the Raiders (who was a chimera spy) buried his Axe into the warlords head. Starting a battle in which horkos retreated losing 15(including the traitor) in the escape back to their camp. Vela wrote a letter back to Astria on one of their ships, requesting more soldiers and supplies as negotiations fell through. The ship comes back a few months later with Astria’s reply she wrote that Vela can easily deal with this new threat on her own, but if she cannot deal with them here, she will have Vela’s head. Dismayed, Vela looked to the neighboring tribes for help, and finds that they are enthusiastic to fight their shared foe. Even with their new allies, the war was brutal and long. The Jaguar Warriors were the equal of any of Vela’s soldiers. And Vela losed a few good friends to her foe’s bloody sacrifices to their gods. But nevertheless, horkos and their allies pushed through driving the Jaguars away from their great city, shattering them. Vela and her soldiers are seen as heroes by the surrounding tribes and are given gifts of gold and other prizes from the defeated Aztecs and themselves as thanks for destroying their oppressor. Vela and her men haul as much as they can to their ships and sail back to heathmoor with a few local warriors she found promising. When they arrived on Ashfield’s West Coast, Astria was waiting for them. Vela was asked to meet her master in the city’s keep. When she got there Astria was waiting in a dark room with a window overlooking the harbor. “so the threat has been dealt with?” Astria said coldly. “Yes master” Vela said confidently “good, I should’ve probably sent you to Arabia rather than lady misery.” “at least you wouldn’t screw it up.” Astria said looking at the ships with a smile. The warmonger queen was disappointed that the Warriors she hoped for had not come, but the gold her disciple brought back would be enough to crush chimera utterly. She would later give Vela a new title, Conquistadora. And hosted a grand party to celebrate Vela’s triumph. But unbeknownst to them, new marauders now stalk the western shores of heathmoor. Destroying everything on the coast, leaving burning villages and heartless corpses in their wake.

[@Wanderer-nw2so]

I would like your critique on my story Raven

[@owenharris6404]

I wish Ubisoft would just hire you as a lead writer

[@xenosayain1506]

@ Raven Question for your stream since it sounds fun. You mentioned story review. Do you take viewer made stories and critique them in real time? If so how you take submissions? Lastly, if 1 and 2 work would you review a lore review for homwbrew fantasy. I'm running a d&d table and would love an unbiased lore review of my world if willing

[@Wanderer-nw2so]

The original lore in for honor made the world feel lived in. the world was vast with many stories that could told from the campaigns observations. I believe they should’ve expanded on the campaigns observations by making stories from them like the samurai’s exodus from Japan and their journey to heathmorre for example. The knights rebuilding of their culture after the cataclysm, or even just stories of the Thousand year war in general. There are countless you can write from just that. It just surprises me that they cannot talk about the past more . Rather than making up stuff on the fly.

[@vorpalkickass8825]

Well, it's the flavor of modern day worldview. White man bad. The two most distinctly knight characters outside of warden were thrown as the bad evilmen - Ravier with the Black priors, and her deathmask appearance sort of hearkening to King Baldwin IV, Now Conquistador Veles, or whatever her name is, is also fullplate, with heavy conquistador coding, and both of them are the evil, the invaders, the wicked Europeans expanding. And Bolthorn is just the evil European viking. (granted, Bolthorn's story was kinda unique - a raid backfiring in a way no one could forsee it) The poor wizened, talanted, mystical, powerful [Africans, Arabs, Aztecs] could not defend themselves from the evil whiteman coming into their lands, so they must head into the white man's lands to rectify this wrongdoing. Also, yes, the medjay is designed to be sub-Saharan African, not Egyptian, and just look at the recent Cleopatra debacle about what the Egyptians think of people coding them to be "Blanket culture = african"

[@Texan8005]

You absolutely PREACHED in this video

[@dennisgarcia2109]

Nice i really enjoyed this. You had some good stuff. I think there is room for a light retcon. A original story told by someone else who was there. Like maybe one of the new factions are just pretending to be the good guys. Then that faction tricks some 100 medjay or any good guys. The traitor faction convince the good guys to fight each other. While mean while being attacked by horkos . Insert any named horkos bad guy and watch his reaction to this setting. Like imagine the third army horkos army enters the battle and see two of there enemie factions fighting. They might just wait it out but what if they think that they have bad guy allies fighting and the horkos army charges in. Then the confusion as they have no idea whats going on and both other good armys see the real bad army come in and they think its really a ambush so they start fighting like crazy because both good guy armys are just so angry at the betrayal.

[@caexinvictus6785]

The lore is one of the few things i find disappointing about the current iteration of the game. The idea that there are factions with no faults, that never do anything even remotely morally gray is a far cry from the realism from the original version. That's why I loved the Warden's story from the campaign. He called out his own faction's BS, left and then did something about it. Just another reason I disagree with the Emperor's champion being the one to kill Apollyon, but I digress. Considering the other cultures are being painted as these do no wrong victims right before Heathmore comes in and stomps them, especially considering the historical significance of the actions they took to gain their reputations gives me the impression that the For Honor devs really either don't understand why these cultures were significant, good or bad, or worse, are painting them that way to get the diversity points without having the backlash from a vocal minority that don't understand history. Im selfishly hoping its just ignorance, of course. Highlighting the faults of one culture and refusing to acknowledge the drawbacks of the other is just moral and intellectual dishonesty.

[@A10N50]

After I got Splatoon 3 and despite the fact I'm also a fan of the game, but as a For Honor fan I find myself being jealous of the game as its single and multiplayer is everything I want For Honor's to be especially with its lore. Splatfest has more impact in the world of Splatoon than For Honor's Faction War does in Heathmoor, the Splatoon characters have more presence in both modes, and have more interesting backstorys than the For Honor characters do. Hell the third game even explores further about humanity's extinction and how the Inkling species came to existence as For Honor pretty much forgets about its own, sure the single player has Apollyon explain some accounts, but we're only told through her perspective and no one elses. I would've like to hear more from the other characters and how they interpret the event that created their new home, but they never bring it up. These two games couldn't be any further apart, well except for one thing... fashion.

[@ThePa1riot]

You know how the initial story mode solved the problem of not “loosing sympathy?” Every faction already had its own internal heroes and villains. Apollyon yes, but you also had Ragnar and Siv the Ruthless as well as the Daimyo such as Kizan and Seijuro. Through the villain characters we see the vices of these cultures as we see their virtues as the heroes.

[@davidnebeker7752]

Can you do a video on how strong all the characters are in the lore.

[@lordthunder1357]

I agree with raven the lore is just really boring I want something new!

[@DakaloMaedza-z4m]

Well knowing Ubisoft and their reputation do you think they'll listen?

[@lordthunder1357]

@@DakaloMaedza-z4m no thay do not listen there just morons!

[@The_Mighty_Azapoot]

Yo, raven when you make new for honor video will it be possible talk about something i noticed, there seems to be pattern in the seasons when both the hero skin and new hero come out together, they tend to have weapons that mirror the other for example: dane axe-fan axe sword and shield-mace and shield so by that pattern's logic the aztec hero will have a macuahuitl GREATSWORD to mirror the warmonger's flamberge greatsword, what are you thoughts on this, how do you they will play and what will be their gimmick since the outlanders tend to have tricks all their own. will it be possible to make a video on this or at the very least a comment cause i would to know your thoughts and ideas.

[@funbro99]

Tbh I feel that the warden turn was a cliche. It would be more nuanced if they had let us make a choice.

[@LEMONZZZZ]

I wish they'd just hire you for the lore

[@Dragonspirit223]

Yes but you see Raven: To write decently then they'd have to remember how to put effort into the writing.

[@raphaelmagalhaes1187]

It's sad to see the writing team drop this when we know they can do amazing stuff really... because this is really bad gotta agree with you 100%

[@russian_knight]

Im getting really tired of the Knights being the bad guys every single time, from the campaign to the current multiplayer story, it's almost always the Knights that are the generic evil, it's stupid and repetitive

[@Wanderer-nw2so]

I still think it’s because they just want to self flagellate over stuff that happened centuries ago that we don’t do anymore. And honestly I just think it’s just very idiotic that they just won’t shut up and move on.

[@Brutal_Games]

Hey raven knight I have a lore question, so in some of your past videos you say that the pirates openly say that they join horkos, but from ubisofts lore recap videos (mainly the Astrea one) she said they refused to join them but would make worthy opponents. As well in pirates trailer she said she didn't care for factions, I was wondering what source did you find the info of Bou Yin and her pirates joining horkos I couldn't find anything on it in some sources and I've been real curious if it's true keep up the great work big guy🩵

[@RavenKnightYT]

In the Horkos Masquerade event, there was a daily order called "Astrea and Bou Yin" where it said: *" For the Pirates to ally with the Horkos, Bou Yin refused to treat with anyone other than Astrea personally. The leaders met in a flooded village taken by the Horkos. Only the two women know the terms of their bargain."* This heavily implies that the two have some form of alliance or bargain at the very least. Something she did not extend to Chimera.

[@Brutal_Games]

@Raven Knight ah I forgot about the order lore, I wish ubisoft could archive stuff like that so we can see it because that's big information, but thank you for clarification raven also I would like your opinion on this idea. In the past you made a video saying what if Apollyon came back (awesome vid btw) now with that in mind what if the Emperor's Champion was some how alive? Do you think that would change anything big in the story like if Apollyon returned or would it be a minor thing?

[@swan248]

Someone gotta hire you

[@edwardav.7455]

The writers have a unique opportunity to tell a history that Will be Heard by a lot of People but instead the choose to wtite it like a very lacklusting cartón conflict

[@BlackskullYT434]

I agree with everything you said in this video

[@DakaloMaedza-z4m]

This video can be answered in one sentenced paragraph trust me it'll make sense, Raven Alot of the original developers and writers of for honor left the game for reasons i don't know maybe to work on more prioritized games after all for honor is very low on the ubisoft value chain so developers and writers left for more profitable operations and since Ubisoft needed more people they got people who know nothing or little on history or know history but don't understand it, but hey you take whatever you can just to keep the product running especially if you don't care about it. Hope i was able to answer your video raven it's all i could find in what's going on even the one who started for honor is gone Jason vanden berghe who worked on the game for a decade I've seen all your characters in your for honor legends and gaius versus is my favorite

[@TheTeletrap]

I’m just gonna say it, the whole Horkos and Chimera thing was a dumb idea. The had the Wu akin RIGHT THERE and never really used them. If any faction was to shake up the power balance, it would’ve been the empire literally being hinted at for a long time. If they really wanted to have Horkos, they should’ve made Astrea more akin to Apollyon’s ideas. If she just wanted to start more war, the Gao Lei would’ve been the perfect puppet. Someone who was ambitious and had the resources to attack 3 smaller nations.

[@OkamiVtuber]

Tbh if holden got captured by the aztecs I doubt Astrea would even help I mean she is his enemy and he is her enemy soooo I think daubeny would be the one to save him because chimera and horkos joining forces to save someone would be.......meh.

[@RavenKnightYT]

At the very least it would be different. Perhaps Astrea would prefer the devil she knows to the one she doesn't

[@Wanderer-nw2so]

Or at least capture him to kill him later

[@sharkchaos5160]

Great video.

[@jaguarwarrior7627]

ubi has to know that they can't use this trope all the time or for honor will die

[@joeyvanhaperen7715]

Well they have atleast tryed with last seasons hero skin. The conqistedor skin shows that not everyone inside of horkos is bad. Instead of picking a side she fought against both sides, cause both the cultists faction and conqistedors faction were bad people. Ironicly the conqistedors faction thought they were right and sow did the cultists faction. Isn't that atleast progress? I'm not as sure as you are about what road the story is going to take next I think maby they are going to surprise us and we will lose our sympetie for the aztac hero as soon as he is introduced, cause he might be going to commit some kind of warcrime or something. 😅

[@Metawraith]

I remember caring about For Honor's lore... Then I realized the game is just a funny sword game with a very lazy behind-the-scenes development. Just focus on the funny.

[@RavenKnightYT]

I remember focusing on the funny…then I realized I shouldn’t accept lazy and half assed story telling from a game I enjoy and respect. I’ll do what I please.

[@littlealex5140]

in 2023 we cant have a good story from a major studio because that isnt what sells games anymore. people just see fancy graphics and fun gameplay so they go for that. Sea Of thieves is the worst case of it imo

[@B1_1_9_7_5]

First

[@enderman8950]

First