Ray Chen. Milshtein - Paganiniana

[@user-nk5ch8db3k]

I think it's a great performance. I think he has reached a high level at the moment and I hope he stays for a long time.

[@emanueleerpete9733]

Paganini would have loved it.

[@agoogleuser3075]

Ray Chen definitely has good technique. However, to me, his performances generally lack sincerity and feel too aggressive, with too much showmanship. I’ve never been able to make it to the end of any of his performances.

[@OopsSpaghetti69420]

I love ray chen, everything about his playing, I even emulate his playing in mine, but I feel like he needs to find a balance to what is too aggressive and what isnt like I have. Back in 2017 I would say is his peak, because he had that balance and played super perfect, not a technique machine like heifetz or hilary hahn but still amazing. 2022 his playing took a deep turn, which I didn’t mind then but it kept getting worse up until, this. I do like this recording but I do understand it is a bit too much and when I listened to it for the first time I cringed at certain bits, but I still enjoy listening to this, and I can comfortably say this is my favorite recording (besides that 3 minute clip of ray playing it like 12 years ago).

[@ClaimTheSpace]

fax

[@OopsSpaghetti69420]

@@ClaimTheSpaceDude people should watch your yt because it highlights ray chen at his besy nglll

[@TheSparshofMusic-wn7de]

Amazing!👍👍👍

[@christaherwig0404]

That's typical of Ray Chen. I love his interpretations, including his body language. A classical fan once sat next to me at a concert. The first time Ray Chen. He then said to me: Should classical music be interpreted like that? Yes, I like it like that🎉🔥❣️I finally like the violin playing 🎻🐬Drama with heart....

[@FrancoEscalona-z8x]

🎉🎉🎉 a la vida..!!! Muy talentoso

[@sergiocalderon8096]

Every body in comments feels the police of good taste and speak like they were Heifetz😂 Let people live their lives and play violin as they want ,this is not medicine nobody is gonna die if you take a different approach

[@benjers-2187]

Amen 😂😭

[@JAEYONGKIM-sp9xh]

Call everything tase and interpretation, but what about him not playing the section with double stops right after the 24 caprice intro? If you don't know what I mean, listen to the original piece and youll see how he intentionally threw away that section. You call that good taste? Wake up

[@jacksauvage]

@@JAEYONGKIM-sp9xh Milstein himself also intentionally skips the second or third variation in some performances 🙂

[@JAEYONGKIM-sp9xh]

@@jacksauvage Again, he has proven himself that he can play all sections with mastery. This isn't the same thing. Does the original score ever say you can skip 2nd or 3rd variation depending on how you feel? or how prepared you are?

[@OopsSpaghetti69420]

@@JAEYONGKIM-sp9xhDude literally what the guy just siad is that he skips it because milstein does not because he just cant play it💀

[@jasonqing7083]

Ray...as a long fan of yours, I think there are some parts that, sad to admit, but disappoints. In short, you do not sound like what you used to on both technical and virtuosic levels. I am a bit shocked by your interpretations in many of the sections, as they don't simply seem to be rooted on technical domains. Unnecessary drags and random stops/pauses, and arbitary variances in tempo really raise the eyebrows for myself, and it seems to reduce the overall consistency of the performance. It disrupts the flow. IMO, the ornaments or such "differentiating factors" of your recent aggressive playing in fact distracts, rather than improves. Even till the time when you were performing Wienawski 1, such issues weren't prominent. However, sad to admit, this isn't the Paganiniana that I (we) are expecting from Ray, nor does it sound on par with ones played by other virtuosoes of the past. Definitley no hate, I love Ray, but just an honest opinion from a fan who grew up with Ray's playing. Watch ray play this when he was young kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKKro2qHbKaWbtU

[@anlingitalia]

Listened to the other video from when he was younger. The difference is stark! Thanks for sharing. Maybe he was getting more guidance for mentors in the first one (his teacher's interpretation), whereas this one is all him.

[@Joshs8707]

A person bold take: classical music, and true art for that matter, is not meant to fit in modern way of life. when bland average joes all go headlong for classical music, it starts to degenerate the parts that meant to be meditated with instead of baseless judgements that sprung out of nowhere. People can say whatever they want about music and art being all subjective and thus that I can’t hate on Ray Chen for his silly interpretations and sloppy techniques, but the hard truth is that there is a very clear division line separating high-value art and some public-flattering art that average joes levitate, without a good reason other than the old subjectivity trope, to the same height as high-value art.

[@fernandowanderley8269]

Who are you?

[@neworangelacko]

With all respect Ray is not a considerable player. I am sorry to say that. Mainstream places like youtube have a flare for him (and obviously the places as well, where his performing), but if you understand the truly great figures of the violin, than you certainly raise your eyebrows, to say the least. Again, no offence. It’s just a personal opinion like many other out there… But you now… the first 60 years are the hardest.

[@Joshs8707]

This is disgraceful and kind of sad, most importantly, I can’t believe it’s played a world-class violinist

[@niiwii406]

Guys, it wasn't his best day 😅

[@violinhunter2]

There's something lacking in the presentation. You can see and sense the effort.

[@Tjpark0402]

Hamburg 12\9 ok did bro played this in future

[@onemeeliondollars]

@Tjpark0402 I'm not sure if your being serious or not, but the American date system is not the only system in the world. It says Hamburg, not hamburger. It is in europe, if you didn't know. And they use the day, month, year system. Which is mathematically the best version.

[@Tjpark0402]

@@onemeeliondollars so it’s 9/12/24nin American date?

[@irisce2799]

the technique is very sloppy here, I expect better from Ray Chen. He can turn on performance beast mode when needed such as when he won Menuhin and Queen Elisabeth back to back, but when he doesn't maintain an iron grip on disciplining his technique, it slips and falters.

[@irisce2799]

Ray definitely took the easy way out on this performance. Obviously did not practice enough and tries to compensate with stage mannerisms and milking sections where he can play an easy chord. Maybe to the non-violinist audience this is fine but to any decent violinist it's obvious what he's doing. It's a balance of musical integrity and honesty with trying to satisfy younger audience, it's not easy and nobody is perfect but I think Ray overstepped the balance a little here.

[@Joshs8707]

​@@irisce2799 Tell me about it, a bunch of beginners defending him that I'm sick of replying them furthur... It's almost insulting and utterly jarring for him to dare to play this badly in a well-sounded concert hall, in front of thousands of audiance no less. There are people down in the seats who play just as well as Chen, so at least play it well and stop butchering a piece of art.

[@tvojdedo6]

Cry me a River nigga 🤦‍♂️ btw im not a kid😄. But you are nothing, so stop talking shit

[@TheChrisBreyShow]

I feel like he’s mocking it 😢

[@justus_saas]

I think its Milstein not Milshtein

[@gerharddupreez5300]

The horrible scratching and intonation that isn't up to standard which are visible in many of his performances is a very obvious critique. But the worst part is the complete inappropriate interpretation.

[@gabea4093]

this is embarassing

[@decone9193]

Lol, funny seeing you here Gabe

[@GeejhayMariano]

(Ray Chen 陈锐 | Milstein 帕格尼尼阿纳 Paganiniana | Ray chen & HKPhil 返场曲目 超精彩的encore), (--try to copy-paste this in google) This would lead to a bilibili video of him playing this piece a year ago. I suggest you try looking into it : ). I don't comment as much in KZbin, but I hope Ray gets improve his technical flaws, because it disheartens me to see one of my favorite violinists slowly downgrade in technique.

[@jasonqing7083]

I took a listen to it. These two performances aren’t that different, esp regarding techniques. In fact this recent performance is better in some areas. Just not a fan of the way plays this piece should be the right thing to say

[@DanielKurganov]

It's regrettable that, today, "virtuosity" for many (including most music students) = over-pressing, stomping your feet, random interpretive decisions, silly faces, no respect for quality or beauty of sound. I couldn't make it to the end, even for research purposes. Just listen to Nathan Milstein...

[@interesting3174]

I agree, it seems that in the pursuit of showmanship and/or trying to cater to a younger audience, we have almost lost the true meaning of virtuosity. it’s as if it has been replaced with flashy movements and dramatic faces instead of having a respect for the sound or the piece itself.

[@jacksauvage]

Здравствуйте, Даниил! Мне кажется, Вы стали заложником собственного чувства вкуса. Конечно, он необычайно у Вас развит, и я всегда был поклонником разных уникальных видео с записями, которые Вы выкладывали на протяжении многих лет и продолжаете выкладывать. Я и сам очень ценю культуру звука старой школы, элегантность и чистый звук, но здесь не деградация, а просто совсем другое. Это типичная ловушка, когда «попсовые» скрипачи нравятся в основном только любителям и не музыкантам, а настоящие профессионалы с большой насмотренностью разносят в щепки таких как Ray Chen, считая это поверхностной дешевкой, а не чем-то настоящим. Таким профи зачастую не хватает гибкости мышления и восприятия. Насколько много в мире правильных, рафинированных скрипачей, которых слушать банально скучно, которые вроде как все первоклассно делают, но все это забывается, не вызывает особо никаких эмоций, потому что это мертвая игра. Ray, безусловно, может не делать все те недостатки, которые Вы нашли. Он вполне умеет играть нежным, трепетным непережатым звуком, не топать, не гримасничать и тд. То, как он исполнил - это его взвешенное решение здесь и сейчас. Ray вкладывается в каждую сыгранную ноту и уж кому точно небезразлично, так это ему. Он очень много рискует и играет не идеально, но от этого наоборот исполнение становится более живым и настоящим. Я вживую слушал десятки участников конкурсов Чайковского и конкурса Елизаветы, слушал тысячи хороших и не очень записей и мне тоже есть с чем сравнить. И как раз их ошибки вызывали лишь раздражение и снижение качества исполнения напрямую влияло на снижение вовлеченности. Кроме того, и сам Ray имеет огромный багаж хорошего чувства вкуса, и был так же взращен на том же, на чем и Вы. Видео не передает эффекта вовлечения, и на первый план выходят какие-то огрехи, но 90% топовых скрипачей, которых я слышал вживую имели еще большие огрехи по качеству, чем он. Когда ты сидишь в зале и слушаешь его, ты чувствуешь непривычную вовлеченность в процесс и растворяешься в исполнении. Глупо сравнивать классическое исполнение Мильштейна с нарочито роковым исполнением Чена. Это не лучше и не хуже. Это просто совершенно другое. Его «случайные интерпретационные решения» на практике дают общий вайб, вовлеченность и ритмическую выразительность. Он большое внимание уделяет битам и это выверенные заранее заготовленные паттерны, а не случайности и халтура. Когда он на бис вдруг начал играть Паганиниану так отчаянно, роково и блестяще - у меня впервые за всю жизнь возникло ощущение, будто сам Паганини появился в зале и начал играть. Я слышал вживую огромное количество исполнений Паганини, но такого ощущения ни одно из них не дало, пусть кто-то играл чище, качественней и «правильней», не передавливая и не занимаясь вольностями. Но кому какая разница, если неправильный, поверхностный и некультурный Ray Chen играет жизнь, а рафинированные исследователи играют так скучно, блекло и неинтересно, что после них ничего не остается и ценности их правильное исполнение никакой не несет? Ray Chen - это и есть музыка в чистом ее проявлении. Но, к сожалению, большинство профессионалов, кто действительно мог бы это оценить, вместо этого увидят у него лишь поверхностность, безвкусие и отсутствие культуры звука из-за собственной негибкости и профдеформации.

[@alna9681]

@@jacksauvagei agree

[@Luguanyu307]

@@jacksauvageI agree. I think Ray is one of the few soloists who are very actively exploring new ways (not just small changes in interpretation but rather dramatic change in style) to play classical music. Sometimes the interpretation may be too unusual that it will come off as "weird" and "unbearable" to people, and to be honest that's fair enough. I would prefer people like Hilary Hahn's version instead of this, both in terms of interpretation and technique, and that's fine! But, he has shown before that he is more than capable to play like a traditional soloist, and I think exploring unique ways of playing should be appreciated.

[@RealMusicalMunch]

Though for sure this interpretation isn’t as clean as good as I would like. I still enjoyed his performance and I feel like that’s what ray is trying to communicate nowadays, entertainment and spreading classical music.

[@cy7632]

i don't like his interpretation

[@the_8th_]

why not??

[@Adonai_Jehovah]

I think I would agree. His rhythm is lacking a bit of a flow and sounds slightly erratic, at least to my ears. It lacks clarity, and focuses too much on trying to appear difficult and to impress. This is typical of Ray. I love his playing though. He's awesome. Always such fire

[@kiennguyenuctrung3851]

​@@Adonai_Jehovah he often changes the rhythm to his liking/playing style, and I think that's just his own spice to classical pieces. I like them

[@Adonai_Jehovah]

@@kiennguyenuctrung3851 He's a great player. I love him

[@cy7632]

@ because it does not sound good.the tempo is weird, the playing is not clean, i can't hear the note clearly. Maybe he should put his creativity to his own music( if he ever compose any music).

[@Joshs8707]

⁠@ruslan In the spirit of taking your comeback seriously, I went on to watch some of the videos of your performing, it turns out you are very average musician and no surprise that you would defend Ray Chen.

[@benjers-2187]

@Joshs8707 Yeah so post a video of you playing paganiniana if your so much better than everyone else

[@JoseJimenez-tc6ij]

Stupid quote.... Sure youre not even violinist and youre here evaluating a profesional with so much disrespect. What is for you average? Top 5% violinist in de world?? I saw couple videos and I can asure You his level is preeeetttty high. You would be surprised if you ask the violins of your local orchestra to play paganini 17, the result will be most likely muuuuch worst. If you want to compare every violinist with the top 0.0000001 in the world, the best 200 violinist out there ok, do It but from my point of view his opinión (or Mr Kurganov even It is the opposite) means much more than any of your disrespectfull words.

[@jacksauvage]

@Joshs8707 thanks for checking my skills) Yes, my technique and sound production not so good, but you don't have to be a chef to appreciate the food in a restaurant. And you are a shining example of this.)

[@Joshs8707]

@@benjers-2187 Why would I bother to prove anything to you when you play Tarantella like that? Where's your intonation mister? It's like asking Bill Gates to prove he's not poor.

[@Joshs8707]

@@JoseJimenez-tc6ijRay Chen's good but doesn't implly he's good in his comparable league of the same skill level. Your take fails to follow basic logic. And I play the violin since 8, and I'm now 21, where did you even get that I don't play?Hilarious.

[@Scientart]

What how???

[@bunibuns8901]

lots of practice!

[@gwenael.welcker]

@@bunibuns8901 and talent

[@norbertsarkozy]

I'm sure Milstein would like it. Just remember what Milstein said about inventions...Paganiniana itself is about inventions, so I don't know what anyone is talking about here. 🤣

[@jacc88888]

Really enjoyed the interpretation: rock star like stage presence and charisma which is refreshing but I miss the refinement and dazzling precision of Milstein’s version. Milstein had a rich, thrilling resonant tone on even the most difficult passages of this piece, perfect intonation and cleanliness of passsge work which actually made it sound more virtuosic and draw-dropping. Chen, despite being a great violinist, musician and performer failed to do this in this performance imo.

[@victorjordaoviolino]

Amazing Ray!

[@thevector384]

Messing around 👎

[@gretaaleksa4502]

Amazing performance by Ray Chen! ❤

[@issanaga8575]

Personally i would’ve loved if he played 6 much slower, something about 6 being played slow is heaven to my ears

[@benjers-2187]

Why’s everyone hating? Even soloists have bad days, and this performance was still better than anything I could ever play

[@Joshs8707]

How is you being bad at the violin relevant to the discussion as to his quality of playing? You are right in saying everyone has their bad days, but Chen’s interpretation is so sloppy that it fell out of the excusable extent. I have never in my life seen such bad performance by a soloist as famous as Chen.

[@benjers-2187]

@@Joshs8707 it wasn’t even bad it was just a more fiery and daring interpretation

[@Joshs8707]

@@benjers-2187 I was two years in the performance degree at my university before switching to software engineering, I think I know what bad sounds like. If you want real fiery check out Eric Silberger, his style is pretty fiery and lives up to his ambitions. For even more fiery ones, check out LI Chuanyun, the Chinese virtuoso. They are unique in their own ways but Chen's just cringey with all his random bow banging, guy's sliding down the path quick in his current state.

[@JAEYONGKIM-sp9xh]

@@Joshs8707 We all know that Li Chuanyun is a fvking legend...his technqiue and muscality can't be compared to Ray.. sad to admit but Ray will never be on the same par. What people are confused about in this thread is in the intention of the player. All these randomness are Ray's intentions and strategic approaches to performances, which even for amatuer violinists sounds like he just wants to get out the showmanship of being able to play this piece, not truly about drilling the ins and outs of this piece and delivering geniune music across people's heart. Look at the faces of the orchestra members behind him. You can see some of them are actually in shock because this isn't how Paganinana is usually played, both on technical grade and on virtuosic levels. The lady there looks confused, and so are we.

[@Joshs8707]

@@JAEYONGKIM-sp9xh I'm glad there are some sane and less biased people in our little classical music circle! Good take!

[@O.M.1-u4f]

НЕ ФОНТАН, мягко говоря.

[@Joshs8707]

7:20, 6:25 Welp that's too hard to watch

[@formaggiogabriele]

Io non capisco tutte le critiche... A suonarci come lui! Anche solo come in questo video.

[@silvialee9397]

넋을 잃게 만드는 연주자~

[@jansnauwaert1785]

Hm. Don't like it. It sounds a bit messy. Listen to Himari's Paganiniana for instance.

[@tako3038]

I'm a Japanese fan of Himari too, but I hate fans like you. Stop making enemies.

[@jansnauwaert1785]

@@tako3038 Hateful response. I give my honest opinion. This interpretation of Ray Chen is not very good, that is what I am telling. Himari's is better and there are others that are better too. Grow up.