Razib Khan on Genetic landscape of the Indian-subcontinent - Urban Chatterati

Geneticist Razib Khan talks about the genetic landscape of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh and also touches upon recent developments in American politics.
Twitter: razibkhan?s=20
www.razib.com/bio/wordpress/

[@vik8860]

Wow.. great to see Razib here.

[@akshatvishal2653]

Kashmiris are genetically more closer to the UP people... Mind blowing revelation

[@qh5716]

not UP but UP Brahmins...

[@tamashbeen6610]

Kashmiri Brahmins moved from Bengal and Bihar. This is how Tantra migrated from Bengal to Kashmir and mixed with Shavism.

[@chiefrabbi6735]

Close to UP Brahmins

[@abhinavshukla2202]

He even later mentioned pundits. Kashmiri pundits.

[@foxmulder545]

@@tamashbeen6610 do you think Tantra was created in Bengal?

[@user-xg9ys6bb3e]

For people commenting here, please note that Dr. Khan is commenting on the genetic landscape of India, and not Aryan Invasion (even though he commented on this frankly when asked) . AIT/AMT is largely a linguistic issue, as is OIT, and not a genetic one. However, we need to take a multi-disciplinary approach to learning about our ancient history. I appeal to people to be more precise when commenting or you risk inadvertently supporting views you don't mean to support! Also, be open and read more on the subject vs just watching videos if you are truly interested, no matter what position you take.

[@usc4405]

Any RECOMMENDATION.. Firstly, we need to write more and print more than only one can read more. Very few books are written . Watched Shiv Shastry jis video. Will surely read his book. He has touched upon all aspects of AIT.

[@Vishnu_Karthik]

@@ZZz-kf4oy If out of India is true then that means i'm a deshbhakt for speaking English, because English came from Latin which came from Proto-European language which came from out of India So English-Indian bhai bhai

[@indravrtrahaana763]

@@ZZz-kf4oy Genetics are also very concrete. They melt away all the delusions. Indians have Steppe DNA whether you like it or not!

[@natalkumar6132]

@@ZZz-kf4oy Linguistics also has errors , some which are further glaring due to AI and other research tools.

[@discomallu9769]

@@Vishnu_Karthik I am told the dinosaurs also spoke Tamil. 🤣

[@patmclaughlin107]

Very knowledgeable person. I learned a lot. Thank you, Razib and Abhinav.

[@TheBhumbak]

Yes in india media and govt just made this research a mess 😅😅😅 just to hide foreign origin of Brahmins

[@zulu2885]

Abhinav brother , wonderful questions , such insightful interview , what a gem , thanks mate for all the info and effort

[@sudhanshusharan5720]

Wonderful interview. Razib is brilliant

[@infinitewisdom6065]

Mr. Prakash is an excellent interviewer. He gets interesting people to talk to on his shows and then asks good questions and lets them talk.

[@bindruk4321]

Hey isnt this the same guy who built or was building a South Asian genetic database called the Harappa Project ? Oh my god ! I have been following his work since 2000 s . This is an amazing add to the chanel. Wonderful to get this guy on board. He is an out and out expert in his subject.

[@anuragsharma4159]

is he zack?

[@bindruk4321]

@@anuragsharma4159 No , he was one of the first "geneticists" of South Asian ( Bangladeshi ) origin in the UK. who actually did a comprehensive genetic study of South Asia - called the Harappa Project in the early 2000's i think. It is because of his work that today we are able to demolish western narratives with science. He was one of the early pioneers.

[@themaskedman5954]

@@bindruk4321 You say because of him we can able to demolish western narratives but he himself supports aryan migration theory

[@bindruk4321]

@@themaskedman5954 Only migration theory NOT Aryan invasion theory. Migration is a common phenomenon in human history. Recently we found Indus valley dna as far as Uzbekistan. There has been two way migration in every part of the world since the beginning of human kind. There has been loads of migration out of India to Europe. Look at the Roma ( gypsy) people in Europe. They are Indian( Rajasthani) in genetics and even culture and language. That doesn't mean there was an Invasion or that modern day Indian are not native to India lol. All immigrants have intermarried and mixed with adivasis at least 6000 to 7000 years ago. Today they are all native. No "Fair skinned people" came from Europe in hordes to kill native people lol. Thats a western lie.

[@themaskedman5954]

@@bindruk4321 Major Indian DNA (IVC) has not been changed or replaced since the last 12000 years

[@pranavkumar1818]

Very fascinating ! Please do more such shows !

[@arnabdas4322]

Great content Abhinav

[@FinEducationBFSI]

Nice discussion Abhinavji.

[@GauravKumar-xe1oi]

I think rice regions of India (Bengal, Odisha, North East) have some South east Asian ancestry. Also hindi itself become more tonal when you move east wards. That's why hindi spoken in North west is called Khari boli. We know that East Asian languages are known for tonal features. When we typically visualize how India was peopled we think of various people coming from western asia in various migratory waves resulting broadly in ANI, ASI. Then lately some tibetan genes came from Himalayan tops. Razib rightly emphasized South east asian genes coming from east and penetrating deeply into India and not just in frontiers areas.

[@chiefrabbi6735]

Pala Empire was a powerful Buddhist empire which brought Burmese population to Bengal.

[@themaskedman5954]

Bengalis and people from odisa are south asians and they have lot of South Asian ancestry

[@chiefrabbi6735]

@@themaskedman5954 bro south asia refers to Indian subcontinent. I think you meant south east asia

[@themaskedman5954]

@@chiefrabbi6735 Sorry I misunderstood your comment

[@chiefrabbi6735]

@Mohammed Sarfaraz yes palas were Bengalis and they were Buddhists. There was immigration from Burma and Tibet because they were also buddhist regions. Bangladesh was buddhist before it converted to Islam.

[@sarahmughal2164]

18:51- some city hindu groups on the west coast? Which coast and which groups exactly?

[@ritwikmallik4777]

Siddi groups, not city groups

[@pmishra786]

Interesting Abhinav ji 👌👌

[@ppchowdhury9332]

Also how the gene flow is related to Sanatan/Dharmic civilization? By assuming that there were some inflow of foreign gene aren't we assuming that arbitrarily what is foreign and what is local?

[@rupeshvislawath]

You can check the KZbin channel "Survive The Jive" where the guy explains when and how Indo European and Pagan cultures evolved. Check his video on Ahswamedha Yajna.

[@anonymouslyopinionated656]

genetics and culture flow differently

[@ppchowdhury9332]

The fact is that Indic civilization is not based on some racial/ ethnic or religious homogeneity. It's mainly Western concept. The basis of Indic/ Sanatan civilization is based on certain sense of looking at life in a very fundamental way. That itself is an embodiment of a number of cultures, languages, foods, facial feature but connected/related by a very fundamental spiritual aspect. Also the spread of Indic civilization was much wider than the modern day country of India. For example , Afghanistan was a very much part of Indic civilization as say Madhya Pradesh. Even the pre Islamic Arabs use to worship idols (Al Lat, Al Urza, Manat etc). The concept of religious homogeneity as a basis of civilization became more prominent over the years with Christianity and Islam

[@jojobabok9373]

@@shambhaviarun2261 I don't think he said it is. All first-order civilizations had little to no racial/ethnic basis. It was about evolving a political & cultural consensus among various tribes. Overtime one becomes more dominant, to the point of primacy (much like the world order today). Racial basis for civilization is indeed a Western (more specifically White) concept.

[@abhisheksharma-sb3er]

What is Indic , did u mean indus ? And u used sanatan too, did u here when he talked about the same ancestry of 2 different cast people 1000 yrs back that predate Mughals and Britishers. Remember Muslim general doesn't have cast system yet south eastern muslim do.

[@ronitrajput3934]

bsdk tune sunna podcast mai wo log kya baat kar rahe thai.

[@anuragsharma4159]

I think steepe people were already quite mixed before further mixing amd then stopped mixing!

[@jayakrishnanm7838]

Namaste Abhinav bhayya

[@urbanchatterati]

Namaste!

[@adurna22122]

Nice..

[@veerapandyan8403]

some of the things mentioned by guest match exactly with history

[@RajKGajjela]

interesting discussion.. Perhaps the timing matches with drying up of saraswati river and people were forced to migrate to inland india What abt kalash people? It would be better if you have a discussion panel with the likes of raj vedam, dr.indu viswanathan, shrikanth talegiri who have somewhat differing take on Indian genetic pool. Nonetheless, great video

[@chiefrabbi6735]

Yes but somehow only the men from stepped migrated leaving their women and children behind. Sounds like an invasion tbh. Turns out Tamil Brahmins are genetically similar to UP Brahmins. Everything screams invasion here.

[@RajKGajjela]

@@chiefrabbi6735 I'm not disputing the fact that invasions never happened but lack of evidence of conflict gave rise to migration theory. That's a possibility but not the ONLY interpretation. It requires multi disciplinary observation, that's why I've asked for a panel discussion with people of different views. IMO, Mr.khan's descriptions aren't devoid of abrahamic bias.

[@chiefrabbi6735]

@@RajKGajjela Anybody who has a Muslim surname suddenly becomes biased towards Abrahamic viewpoint. Brother, most highly educated people in the West don't give a shit about religion.

[@RajKGajjela]

@@chiefrabbi6735 stop jumping the gun and discuss the point I've mentioned. Scientific racism exists whether you chose to acknowledge or not. Most of European scientific renaissance was driven by abrahamic bias irrespective of their religiosity. Coming to the point, all I wanted was a discussion with scholars of different take.. If we're still stuck in acknowledging the problem at hand, we're doomed

[@jojobabok9373]

@Turtle Kingdom BITCH Yeah? Capitol riots was done by the third world, I presume? We live in 2021, boi... Christian fundamentalism is out in the open. The American (& by extension, Western) posture on Human Rights has been dented (if not buried). Also, what about Barack Obama being an Arab & all back in the day?! America is a highly collectivist society, with a strong emphasis on religion. Try explaining the billion dollar foundations arguing for teaching creationism in schools. It's a good thing they at least don't have much diversity in this regard to contend with.

[@videosforyou567]

32:36 Jatt IQ joke got censored smh

[@AVirk]

Dangerous territory. It would have been nice if he’d have explained in detail what exactly does he take to mean IQ, in these iq comparisons. And how reliable are these iq tests of jatts. As a jatt myself, I’m not sure if people who have largely been involved in agriculture for a millennia, if suddenly thrown in a broken education system in India, would perform well in an IQ test that perhaps was intended for students educated in a well formed educational system of America. Even that last part is debate-able. You’ll probably have to take into account how much of a role language acquisition plays a part in this. Since we jatts speak very specific dialects and languages, in which educational material is scarcely available. Whereas the language of the Brahmin has always been the language of “education” and Brahmins were indeed in a better position to acquire a foreign language faster than us. A better comparison would be of jats and Brahmins born and raised in America, in comparable income brackets.

[@harisadu8998]

@@AVirk It's just a joke. I'm sure you have heard the jokes about Jatts.

[@AVirk]

@@harisadu8998 honestly mate that’s the first time I’ve ever heard that. I didn’t even know people were judging us in that fashion. Maybe they do so behind our backs. Like a white person might use the n-word while sitting among a “safe” group of white people. I understand the joke was intended to be satirical. But I’m not sure if he’d say the same thing about blacks, and then laugh at the end of it. In that last case it’d be borderline racism. In our specific case it’s borderline casteism.

[@harisadu8998]

@@AVirk It's fair enough, what you're saying. I guess in the Indian context, it is more acceptable to make jokes about certain people than others. For example, there are jokes about Baniyas also but I don't know of any jokes about Dalits (since you gave the example of blacks). At the same time, there are also jokes about Jatts, especially Sikhs. Even jokes about Parsis. I think there are jokes about communities which have some peculiar characteristics, but are not necessarily weak communities. As I mentioned above, I haven't heard any Dalit jokes. This seems to be how society functions. Lampooning communities which are stronger but not weaker communities although to be fair there are some jokes about black people in America too. But there are no jokes regarding intelligence as such. And regarding casteism Amoljit, if you want to be fair, you also know very well that Jatts are excessively proud and wear their caste on their sleeves. In Punjabi music, they talk about their caste and being Jatts all the time. You also know that you won't find any Brahmins boasting about their caste in music and popular culture even if privately, they feel proud.

[@AVirk]

@@harisadu8998 you make good points there. And fair enough, we yet to have the fair side of wokeness reach us in our part of the world. All we have is the bad parts of that lefty culture. But I think the joke bothered me more the first time I head it. Sorry if I lashed out too much. Never really heard anything like that in Punjab while growing up here. I think I’ll be more desensitized to those jokes from now on. I did have maybe a different take on the last part of your comment however. Do you think communities which have not really taken part much in the brahmanical casteism and I might even say were willfully sidelined by the modern Brahmin communities, though that last part is debatable, but it’s viewed as such here, are proud because they don’t take part in that superior/inferior comparisons. And we live in, I think very concentrated pockets. For example 90% of people I grew up with were jats. They have a few rules of observable behaviour for each other and when one does not do so, they are socially outcasted and those songs are particularly aimed at socially defining what it means to be a jat. Like to me those songs sound like, “a jat must do this must do that”. A sense of tribe is kept alive partly because the nation has failed to rouse within us a collective national identity that has no fault lines so we cling to what is near to us. and it didn’t even dawn on me that so many people listened to those songs😅, I think they are aimed at our concentrated pockets of jats and not a declaration to the world. I think when we are judged to be casteist there is a bit of orientalizing going on there. Looked at from afar, like an animal is looked at in a zoo, never really truly understanding us. Do you think my argument has weight? And would you say this maybe will help you understand that last part you raised in your comment ?

[@vijaynarainmishra]

Thanks , Good information. Indic civilization has great future.

[@mandy28887]

India was cosmopolitan 2000 years ago and caste became dominant about 1500 years ago

[@janardansingh5926]

Right india was really a very sensible & mature trading civilization across the world with a strong maritime presence , it had a very developed way of life it's people had equal command on applied astronomical science as well as had great insights into human life, they aligned there living processes with the Nature's great forces for attaining maximum benefits for the living species of the world.

[@janardansingh5926]

The whole Indian civilization got great economic & social order setback due to repeated foreign invasions particularly Khilzi , however whatever was left during late Mughal & Britisher's Period

[@adwaitvedant3297]

What if I say 800 years ago...

[@janardansingh5926]

@@adwaitvedant3297 post samrat Harsh

[@chiefrabbi6735]

@@adwaitvedant3297 then you would be wrong because before Islamic invasion India was already getting pummeled by foreign forces. The hun invasion of India destroyed gupta empire and what followed was a fragmented civilization. Hina were Turks and Afghans (the same guys who later invaded during sultanate times). So India was already in decline before Islam arrived. We don't hate guns because those that stayed in India and settled here assimilated into Hindu society.

[@dante911ify]

Around 10:11, Razib is talking about vysya (or Komati Chettiars) of Andhra who are a mercantile group

[@saiteja3437]

Did he said they are not from here like migrated?

[@dante911ify]

@@saiteja3437 no, he didn't . Afaik, they are not that different from other caste telugus , it's just that they have maintained stricter endogamy for long.

[@saiteja3437]

@@dante911ify Thanks ...I understood it differently

[@dante911ify]

@dash Rex Any group can cook up any story , it's common in the indian subcontinent with groups claiming ancestry from this and that :)

[@ppchowdhury9332]

If there is 30 % steppe ancestry in the Northern part of India, how that necessarily mean that people came to India from steppes and introduced the gene? Why it cannot be the case that somebody from India went to steppes and populated the area resulting in what we know as Steppe gene? Can gene study alone determine the direction?

[@historian2]

The variety of R1a1 in West Asia/Eastern Europe are older than the India Z93. Also, 30% is for upper castes like Brahmins, the percentage foes down as we go down the caste ladder.

[@ppchowdhury9332]

@@historian2 Kindly see Raj Vedam's and the related videos.

[@freandwhickquest]

@@ppchowdhury9332 impeach fascist modi and ban hindutva fascism.

[@user-km1nu2hw5w]

Steppe genes originated in the steppes

[@freandwhickquest]

@@user-km1nu2hw5w it seems to me that members of the steppe (sintashta) culture called each other as aryans. According to tablets persian rulers also called themselves as the king of aryans: in Parthian shappur I himself says "aryān šahr xwadāy ahēm" which means i am the king of aryans. Authors of avesta also called themselves as aryans. Authors of the rigveda also called northern parts of india as the āryavarta which means the land of aryans. It is plausable to suggest that steppe warriors from the sintashta culture of 1800 BC used aryan as a self designation. They migrated into india and iran.

[@TheLazyVideo]

The rapid admixture in ancient North India from both the Steppe (north) and ASI (south) could indicate that its ancient society was economically advanced and therefore had many immigrants from all directions, not unlike how the USA attracts immigrants from all directions. And they were likely open to newcomers, again not unlike the USA. Were these newcomers just on the Y haplogroups, or on mtDNA as well?

[@zulu2885]

The dominant paternal lineage in north is steppe related , it was more of a replacement than casual admixture , before that indus people were predominantly Iranian farmers similar to baloch people and on the paternal side haplogroup j was reduced drastically so it seemed more like a taking over than just immigration

[@mudra5114]

In the agricultural era, the Indian subcontinent was surely a USA. Excellent agricultural land.

[@anitahaldar4467]

no it's also mtdna new study finds

[@schaudhurikol]

A lot of Bangladeshis like Razib mentioned and East Bengalis in India have East Asian ancestry as their ancestors came from Myanmar, Thailand and South East China. Even today it is visible in some of their facial features.

[@mitsengupta8945]

Spot on. I checked the Harrappa excel sheet. Bengalis on average score 15% East Asian.

[@team_tsubasa6484]

its common for himalayan ,bengali munda,northeast etc and many other communities to have 15-40% east asian dna..

[@congresswallah]

Nasrani Christian from KERALA, what Razib is saying is very very true.

[@sachguru1]

Pack you bags then!😆

[@animegod1714]

@Leviathan it's a joke man. Calm down.

[@punyashloka4946]

@Leviathan no every Indian is not migrant its you Christians and Muslims who migrated from middle east into India.

[@zulu2885]

So technically indians are different races categorised within castes , as much as I enjoy the revival of Hinduism and Hindu culture , tall claims by not so genetically literate people regarding continuum of genetic signature in all of india by way of common people never made sense to me , this is much more nuanced approach , probably quite dangerous in the hands of southern regionalists groups but it is what it is

[@topg2820]

Not all, Indians are mostly caucasoids throughout (with slight australoid), it's only in places like Bengal where you have multi-race mix in higher proportion

[@topg2820]

Southern divisionalists don't have 2 cents in this issue, everything about South India is and always has been by the work of Tamil Brāhmaṇs whether they like it or not

[@zulu2885]

@@topg2820 huh! , Its probably true brother , wierd how bhramins are leading the race divide despite being closer to northern bhramins , life moves in wierd ways

[@abhisheksharma-sb3er]

@@topg2820 and southern Brahmin have more similarities to northern 😁

[@crsumiran]

Razib definitely has many Telugu friends.

[@jayakrishnanm7838]

Abhinav bhayya bring Dr Niraj Rai next time and talk about his latest paper on Rakhi Garhi also. And do a commentary on the findings.

[@indravrtrahaana763]

What is your interpretation of Rakhigarhi Results?

[@anuragsharma4159]

@@indravrtrahaana763Pre Steepe and less iranian mixed population existed there.

[@indravrtrahaana763]

@@anuragsharma4159 The Rakhigarhi Woman has a good deal of Neolithic Iranian and less AASI.

[@anuragsharma4159]

@@indravrtrahaana763 I mean Those Iranian farmers . Im sorry I shouldn't have even mentioned this thing here.Yes they were about 70-80% of Iranian side (which can vary from individuals)

[@indravrtrahaana763]

@@anuragsharma4159 Yes but IVC people in general have a heavy Neolithic Iranian Ancestry and comparitively less AASI.

[@team_tsubasa6484]

Any idea about kumaoni thakurs (Uttarakhand)

[@akashsinghal4517]

What about factoring in how much diversity r1a has in indian population vis-vis european-west asian population? That data as brought out by Dr Neeraj Rai indicates much diversity in indian subcontinent as compared to outside- which then again strengthens the out of india theory. Also segregation of populations among the ancestral south indian and ancestral north indian could be attributed to human civilisations being mostly drawn towards soil fertility. Which in north india is based around the ancient sapt sindhu and ganga-yamuna belt and in down south pretty much most of it being deeper black soil area. So the segregation could be a result of a lot of central india being non-agrarian forrest dwelling. Which also matches with geographical descriptions in texts of ramayana and mahabharata- which are now proven to be atleast geographically accurate.

[@stalinsampras]

Like the diversity of conovirus in india. There is delta version and new triple variation and few other variation, This is know only by sequencing just 1% of the genome, if we had analysed 10% of the positive coronavirus cases it would show more variations of coronavirus. And this variats are more potent. So by your logic, Did coronavirus originate in India?? because it has more variations here than in any other country or did it originate in china like we all know

[@akashsinghal4517]

@@stalinsampras bro too many logical inconsistencies in your argument. Too lazy to even reply.

[@topg2820]

@@stalinsampras the originator of r1a and r1b i.e. R is from India, so according to your virus argument it is like saying that since the alpha variant was found in China so it originates from there

[@kanishkgulwadi9245]

@@stalinsampras Well your point sounds plausible but it is full of fallacies. Firstly, Virus the rate of multiplication of virus depends from host to host unlike humans. The rate of increase in population is almost the same across the planet. Secondly, India has highest diversity because it was present in India only after few months it started. So what K wanna say is that if R1a originated outside India it came to India much before 1500 BCE. Since it is also found in ISOLATED ABORIGINAL TRIBAL POPULATIONS. Third, R1a Haplogroup is a DESCENDANT of R* Haplogroup which itself is of Indian origin. Did coronavirus descend from an Indian microbe ? No right ? But R1a did.

[@topg2820]

@Alexios I Komnenos can't be sure

[@mariamtee]

This is mind blowing stuff. However the subtitles are really bad

[@NatrajChaturvedi]

Fantastic discussion. I've wondered sometimes how much central Asian or west Asian ancestry I have as a fair-ish Northern Indian Brahmin..well now I know....

[@NatrajChaturvedi]

@Turtle Kingdom BITCH it's not a express upper limit but the upper ceiling for the average in Brahmins for my state or region. In any case, I understand the point and will probably get myself tested at some point as I am more than curious after listening to this discussion.

[@user-km1nu2hw5w]

Around 33% PIE, 41% Neolithic Iranian and 26% AASI

[@topg2820]

What gotra are you and from which state?

[@ramabapat]

Razib is the twice modified form of Rajiv. Rajiv to Rajib to Razib.

[@user-jn1ts4wl1c]

Wow you figured out his name is exclusively South Asian

[@ramabapat]

@@user-jn1ts4wl1c Indian, not South-Asian.

[@alokpandey9532]

"We want a prosperous America, we want a stable America, that is a force for good in the world" - Abhinav Prakash

[@vaishnavnegi9640]

This makes me curious too. My people have a very vague background.

[@team_tsubasa6484]

what you mean by vague... anyways what are you kumaoni or garhwali..

[@vaishnavnegi9640]

@@team_tsubasa6484 Garhwali, but we can't really trace our origins well enough to a place. Also from what I've gathered over time from my research, we most definitely are an admixture of local khas population with the plains Rajput over the last half millennia.

[@RD-pp9ds]

I might sound stupid but Indian climate and geography is such that every rich person (especially from north India) has a fair complexion! A rich dalit from Punjab and Haryana is way way fairer than let's say a brahmin from UP who has to go out in sun to earn! I had a very dark complexion when i was in school but since last few years, i have become as fair as a north Indian can be

[@indravrtrahaana763]

I am sorry but this fair dark talk is very unscientific. Genetic tests are accurate.

[@RD-pp9ds]

@@indravrtrahaana763 i totally agree hence i said that skin complexion depends totally upon geography and affluence (in the case of north India, especially north west) You won't find rich dalits with dark complexion in Haryana or Punjab even though it is alleged that dalits usually have dark complexion

[@indravrtrahaana763]

@@RD-pp9ds In UP and Bihar,the dalits look very different from Brahmins.

[@RD-pp9ds]

@@indravrtrahaana763 not at all! They may look a bit darker in complexion but that is purely bcz of that fact that majority dalits are still poor! Dalits in HR and PB dont look much different from brahmins. Especially the well off dalits

[@anandrmnn]

Look up Chedder Man - the 150 generation old ancestor or today's white British. He had dark brown or black hair,[ and dark or dark to black skin. His relatives have been traced and they are all white now.

[@debasish.d5616]

Do one with Omar Ali as well.

[@sarahmughal2164]

25:40 - so Rajib is saying that a central asian indo Aryan group with r1a1a paternal haplogroup ra*ed other indo Aryan r1a1a groups of South Asia ?

[@sumukhhegde7161]

Very insightful. The mistake these people who ask geneticists if steppe people are smarter, is that they equate it to "Aryan Invasion". But archeological and textual evidence points to much older prevalence of the Vedic culture in India before 1500BC when these steppe genes start appearing. Besides, Swami Vivekananda's talk about Kshatriyas and Rajputs shows how he lamented that the Aryan blood diluted with "Central Asian" intermixing back when no-one knew of the central Asian link..

[@AVirk]

Could give a citation as to where a advaita vendatist “ lamented aryan blood mixing with central Asian”. In which essay, which book, which speech does vivekananda writes or speaks this in. I’ve covered everything that’s available of him in the market but never did he, as you put it, lament central Asian blood mixing.

[@sumukhhegde7161]

@@AVirk there is correspondence of him with a Rajput king of a kingdom in Rajasthan. If I find it, I will share here but it certainly is part of his complete works.

[@sumukhhegde7161]

@@AVirk here's the excerpt from his correspondence with Maharaja Ajit Singh of khetri.. "The Kshatriyas had always been the backbone of India, so also tey had been the supporters of science and liberty, and their voices had rung out again and again to clear the land from superstitions; and throughout the history of India they ever formed the invulnerable barrier to aggressive priestly tyranny. When the greater part of their number sank into ignorance, and another portion mixed their blood with savages from Central Asia and lent their swords to establish the rules of priests in India, her cup became full to the brim, and down sank the land of Bharata, not to rise again, until the Kshatriya rouses himself, and making himself free, strikes the chains from the feet of the rest. Priestcraft is the bane of India. Can man degrade his brother, and himself escape degradation?"

[@luvsuneja]

The Vedas themselves feature Saraswati river hugely. This river dried up around 1800 BC. Obviously, the “Aryas” were there before central Asians arrived.

[@akashsingh4005]

@@sumukhhegde7161 the whole " rajputs are descendants of white Huns " is debunked and was peddled by colonialists to justify their rule .

[@ebenrenil307]

Can you define how much extend nasrani people has middle eastern ancestry...?? Are you meant knanaya people or saint Thomas Christians???

[@ralph6417]

Nasranis are less than 5% Middle Eastenern. Knanaya are less than 10% Middle Eastenern And Razib said Nasranis basically Nair converts in one of his blog.

[@atharvasharma5814]

👍

[@veerswami7175]

Ram ram sat shree akal pranam abhinav Saab

[@statickk14]

I am a Bengali and had my DNA analyzed from National Geographic in 2013. I am 66% South Asian, 19% South East Asian/Oceanic(which Razib mentioned, Bengalis have this unique mix), 13% Central Asian/Steppe Region, 1.5% Neanderthal ( this is more among Europeans). So Indo Aryans did come to India, whether you call them Aryans or not but people from the Steppe region did move to India. I see this in my own genetics. What I disagree is that these nomads brought in Sanskrit language. They assimilated into the Indic culture, they didn’t bring any from outside. Europeans could not handle the fact that Sanskrit is where it all originates. Aryan invasion is a bullshit cooked up story. Sanskrit is native to India.

[@adwaitvedant3297]

Eh that Steppes genes during Hunas and kushan period...Not in vedic period...The Origin of R1A1 gene has been found in India only...Even i m bengali..

[@statickk14]

@@adwaitvedant3297 This is where you are wrong. Your being a Bengali has nothing to do with the science. R1A1 originates in the Steppe Region, science is very clear on this.

[@chiefrabbi6735]

Southeast Asian mixture happened during pala Empire. Pala Empire was a Buddhist imperial power under which Burmese and Tibetan Buddhists migrated en masse to Bengal. In fact Tibetan Buddhism went to Tibet from Bengal.

[@statickk14]

@@chiefrabbi6735 likely not. The South Asian mix happened at least 1500 years back. Watch the video. Pala Empire was lot later.

[@chiefrabbi6735]

@@statickk14 Pala empire was formed 1100 years ago. Well bengal was already buddhist before that. So yeah it could have been a couple centuries earlier.

[@sarahmughal2164]

17:10 - Ashraf person from Bihar. But what his haplogroup ? R1a1a

[@SR-mv2mf]

How many years ago did this "indo-aryan" steppe group come to India?

[@kishore2486]

About 4k years back

[@dbmdrums1105]

If ...only Abhinav could get Satoshi Kanazawa.....

[@srivatsa7292]

Near 10.25,the group he is referring to is the Vishya group

[@darthvader098]

Everyone should watch video on Aryan Invasion Theory on Jaipur Dialogues recently with Dr Shiv Sastry where they have talked about everything related to it including history, archeology, linguistics and genetics. Highly recommended. kzbin.info/www/bejne/foepenhvdpqDi5o

[@YashKansalx]

What is vishya

[@BalajiRavikanti]

He was referring to Vysyas, there are many of them across India, Arya Vysyas, kalinga Vysyas etc. baniye basically!

[@satanshameer690]

Richard Lynn has claimed AASI enriched Tamil Nadu has the Highest iq in India while lowest iq is found in northwestern indian states which is both western Eurasian and steppe enriched

[@124akshat]

This was pretty good.

[@urbanchatterati]

Thnx :)

[@anandrmnn]

@@urbanchatterati Hi Abhinav, congrats on your new channel. Really enjoying the talks! Several Indian 'right wing' channels (in some of them you also participate sometime) keep bringing same people and discuss almost the same topics... so it's quite refreshing to see fresh faces (eg. Vikramjit Banerjee and Razib Khan) discussing fresh topics that we don't come across elsewhere. Keep up the great work!!

[@arkapravamukherjee5363]

Bengal used to be a bastion of Buddhism in South Asia . Obviously a lot of Tibetan Monks were granted land and interbreed with local women . Pal Kingdom ruled Bengal for 500 years , most of the important centres of trade , education etc were in modern Bangladesh . Brahmin and Hinduism came only during Sen Empire which didn't last more than 100 years and fell to Muslim rule . So Bengali Hindus were always minority. Most of the modern Bengali Muslims were Buddhists . Phenotypically Bengali Muslims look more Mongolian than a Bengali Hindu . Amongst Bengali Hindus caste system is also not rigid , intercaste marriage happens a lot here . That's why Mamata Banerjee , a brahmin looks like Mongolian here , a lot Brahmins are black , short statured , consumes fish . These indicates heavy mixing , Brahmins used to Practice polygamy untill 1700 in Bengal . Most of the bride's were of low caste. Since their numbers was less .

[@mitsengupta8945]

Bengali Brahmins are 75% UP Brahmins and 25% Bengali. So yeah they are mixed. And yes Sena empire brought Brahmins and Baidyas (Senguptas for example) from North India. Before that Bengal was Buddhist. Bengal adopted caste system from Mithila but it was never as strong as them.

[@sanjibmukherjee8484]

​@@mitsengupta8945yeh

[@sanjibmukherjee8484]

Are mukherjees r1a or r1b

[@kishore2486]

​@@sanjibmukherjee8484 Tamil brahmin =75 % UP brahmin +25%Tamil Bengali brahmin =75%UP brahmin +25%Bengali

[@ramabapat]

I wish to give this Razib samples from my state and see if he can tell different castes apart. It’s impossible to place implicit trust on any expert these days. You never know who is being funded to push what agenda.

[@vaibhavmishra6006]

Check Singh's. They're most misused caste😕

[@discomallu9769]

Use this data can we predict at what point the mixing of populations slowed down ? Basically predict when endogamy kicked in. Once we know this, we can look at historic events that would have led to the raise of endogamy.

[@vibhavdeshpande8196]

I am not sure about it but I think it started 2000-1500 years ago.

[@stalinsampras]

bro easy look at Manu smriti you have your answer there

[@stalinsampras]

Endogamy existed in some tribes in india even before the waves of migration from the central asia, but the whole socitial and forced endogamy started in the period of Manusmiriti which criminalized and punished people if they weren't endogamous.

[@discomallu9769]

@@stalinsampras ha ha. Is the manusmriti the Hindu Bible or Koran ?

[@discomallu9769]

@@stalinsampras are you saying that there was a centralised system that enforced endogamy ? And this system was in power even when the existing kingdoms were destroyed, looted and burnt down by plundering hordes ? You seem to be smoking some good quality stuff.

[@tamashbeen6610]

What about Kashmiri Muslims? Are they also like UP Brahmin?

[@chiefrabbi6735]

He talked about Kashmiris in general. That included Kashmiri Pandits.

[@RD-pp9ds]

Most Kashmiri muslims are pandits Bhat wani mattoo kaul etc etc

[@shankyxyz]

with titles like bhat, guru etc you think they were not pandits before the disease of islam spread there?

[@bond7079]

@@shankyxyz...FROM DARKNESS TO LIGHT.

[@RD-pp9ds]

@@bond7079 define darkness and define light

[@abhiglad]

Pffft…Parsis in India are from Persia where Zoroastrians lived before Islam took over. Obviously they have genes matching people from that region. And if they did not intermingle which many minority communities won’t do (in general), they would maintain the gene makeup.

[@ganga6591]

what about the effect of the mass raping that happened when East Pakistan was made to Bangla Desh, that would have also affetcted the results

[@Drganguli]

Endogamy is not a good thing from a medical perspective

[@ralph6417]

So every South Asians are full of various medical conditions.

[@patmclaughlin107]

I loved Razib's sense of humor. It is unfortunate that Abhinav has to nod and smile diplomatically, and he is not willing to venture into humor. Abhinav, please relax, and laugh, at least.

[@snl1754]

It's not that every humor needs a burst of laughter. Thats more like comedy (not humor) when you laugh out loud.

[@sarahmughal2164]

19:50- the Kashmiri pandits and Brahmins have sake genetics as UP Brahmins..

[@veerswami7175]

Plz add English subtitles bro 🙏🙏🙏🙏 he speaks too fast at some time

[@dbmdrums1105]

Are.. bhai itna difficult to nahi heh . Slow down the playback . Samajh ajayega dosth.

[@ss00731]

32:36 🤣🤣

[@MrRrrr698]

These jhaats 🤣🤣🤣

[@sarahmughal2164]

23:40 -

[@sarahmughal2164]

25:10 - violent

[@sarahmughal2164]

24:40- there's gene flow into India. But

[@akshatbhardwaj7163]

So North Indians have much higher indus valley ancestry than South Indians(70% vs 30%). That ends the debate of dravidians being ivc people and native indians. They are native South Indians and North Indians are native ivc people.

[@akshatbhardwaj7163]

@GOUTHAM KRISHNA how did you reach the conclusion that Dravidian languages were spoken at the indus valley? The way I see it, even if migrations from steppe happened, they assimilated with the ivc people in the north. It is impossible for the invaders to completely annihilate the language of the masses yet we don't see any major influence of Dravidian languages on the languages of the north. It doesn't support the idea that Dravidian was spoken in the North.

[@abhiglad]

Not sure how much I believe his inferences here. Large parts of UP, that is now Uttarakhand has Tibetan, Nepalese traits. Same goes for Himachal Pradesh. Geo proximity of Bangladesh with Burma explains linkages with Burmese people. Somehow hard to believe when he said Bangladesh is this cosmopolitan gene carriers while the same is not true in India. I would again question his sample size and distribution across Indian subcontinent.

[@mitsengupta8945]

Spot on. East Asian ancestry is prevalent across the Gangetic plain from UP to Bengal. East Asian looking people are found in UP and Bihar as well but it increases as we move towards WB and even more when we reach Bangladesh. Uttarakhand is even more East Asian than Bangladesh. Even Uttarakhand Brahmins I've seen score East Asian around 24% in Harrappa excel sheet.

[@team_tsubasa6484]

@@mitsengupta8945 yes uttrakhand brahmin gets a quater east asian dna... mostly these are native himalayan ppl(kirats lord shiva is associated with kirats) who mixed with north indian plain( after migration).. rajput get higher east asian dna ..while dalits get little to no east asian dna... this study was done by punjab University 2016 ... you can google it..

[@shashanksri5993]

Hmmm...why do Brahmins, Kshatriyas and vaishyas have more steppe ancestry than Dalits? Jyotiba Phule and Ambedkar were probably right

[@ayushsingh4574]

Ambedkar were true about Aryan migration? Have you ever read about Ambedkars views on this matter he totally rejects such gibberish nd calls shudra ancient kashtriye from whom Brahmin stopped doing vedic things

[@punyashloka4946]

Amber kar was the one who actually thrashed Aryan invasion theory ,he actually show the migration theory which is more likely to happen , go read his work first.

[@punyashloka4946]

Also north indian used to travel all over the world because of trade so that might be reason.

[@Austenite762]

Jats have highest steppe ancestory They are nott Brahmins In fact last time they were demandiing reservation saying they are backwardd calss Also southh Indiann Brahmins have less steppe ancestory thann northh Indiann Brahmins They were as influentiall as say northh Indiann Brahmins

[@raulepure9840]

@GOUTHAM KRISHNA South brahmins has same origin as north brahmins , after initial mix in the north with locals they come into south and mix again so this is why they have lower steppe. you will see the same in Europe as aryans (steppe people) came into south they mix more and more so southern europe has less aryan ancestry that north.

[@rohandev1444]

Hi Razib Is your mom Razia ? If so I know you.

[@smoky3302]

It's clear that Aryan migration happen and I don't think any issue with that many migration like sakas,khushian,huna,tumhara,yavnas or Greeks,bactrians come to India and settled here.

[@darthvader098]

Everyone should watch video on Aryan Invasion Theory on Jaipur Dialogues recently with Dr Shiv Sastry where they have talked about everything related to it including history, archeology, linguistics and genetics. Highly recommended. kzbin.info/www/bejne/foepenhvdpqDi5o

[@jayakrishnanm7838]

@@darthvader098 yeah watch the one with Niraj Rai on charvak podcast. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5DCY2trZsyWiJY If u watch it they conclude there was no Aryan invasion.

[@qh5716]

Indians mixed heavily with foreign tribes starting from 3,000 years back. Indus valley merchants regularly traded with Persians, middle-eastern tribes. Even Chandragupta Maurya married a Bactrian princess. It was common in that era. The Vedas talk about the battle of between different tribes some of which are of Iranian origin. However, at the end of the day, the civilizational essence of India is native to this land. No tribe/ethnic group is pure. Even Iranians heavily mixed with Greeks, Arabs also mixed with others, Chinese mixed with Turks, Central Asian Turks mixed with White Europeans to form the modern nation Turkey... And India isn't any exception. India even has been ruled by foreign tribes like Kushanas before, who would be perhaps more close to Turks/Chinese. Just 1000 years back, the rulers of Afghanistan were Hindu Shahis, who were Hindu Turks. Hence, the essence of Inda isn't limited to ethnicity but inclusiveness.

[@indravrtrahaana763]

Of course it did! All ancestors should be honoured and respected.

[@smoky3302]

@@indravrtrahaana763 so Persians,Turks and Arabs also .

[@ramkrishnadas4230]

Please get Dr Raj Vedam to review and respond to this interview. Since he is an academician he won't say no to you. Sir JI, whenever you get some 'pop' version genetics in an interview, where the terms and percentage are being thrown in very vague phrases, please do us and yourself a big favor, get this interview through Prof Ranganathan-just peer review sort of; not in anyway being judgemental about the guest. Peer review is a must. Otherwise delete. Or at least make this a declaration that it has not been peer reviwed and Abhinav is certainly not his peer in technical sense. There is contentious debate on this issue.

[@stalinsampras]

lmao you want to peer review interviews??

[@ghostnation9642]

In Bangladesh everyone mixed with everyone. For the sake of unity, India should follow the Bangladeshi pattern and become a homogeneous nation.

[@rohandev1444]

No it should not. We are happy with our diversity.....

[@ghostnation9642]

@@rohandev1444 not everybody thinks like you sadly. I've seen many Punjabis looking down on south Indians. Another case is where Dalits are not allowed in upper castes house. Diversity is fine only in proper civilised countries and not in casteist country like India.

[@rohandev1444]

@@ghostnation9642 well in Bangladesh there is quite a bit of classism too. And I think overdoing the Dalit Punjabi is getting a bit much. As far as civilization goes we are behind none. I work on the IS and find more jerks here in a so called ‘civilized country’ and Bangladesh is eons behind us and at best like us, kinda sorta same people.

[@ghostnation9642]

@@rohandev1444 I agree with you about the classism in BD, but once they become a developed nation it will disappear like Europe. OTOH The caste or Jati/Varna is a very different thing. It usually doesn't follow class-based hierarchy otherwise the Banias would be the highest community in India.

[@rohandev1444]

@@ghostnation9642 what does that even mean. They are ages beyond becoming a developed country engulfed in Islamic extremism and overriding everything that their country was formed out of. It is Sheikh Hasina’s dictatorial semi democratic India friendly but China baiting policy that is keeping them going. Ironically there is as much anti hindu and anti minority atrocities in Nangladesh as there is in Pakistan but doesn’t get highlighted as much in India. And don’t even get me started on how they are treating their fellow. Muslim Rohingyas- pretty much driving them to India.

[@pif4347]

It is surprising to see how much Indians are interested and concerned with America’s future. It’s been 3 years since this video posted and he was right, it still doesn’t look good. Things will continue to get worse before they get better, for America and the world. Trump will be back, and America will be reborn.

[@N0-PvP-Plz]

Im pround of my aryan ancestry

[@yash-lu7qp]

AIT was rejected by Ambedkar in the 40s even before the scientific evidence.

[@ralph6417]

He doesn't even talked about AMT lol.

[@bookmankdw8669]

Steppe mlba = indo-aryan Its unproven. Don't understand why people drawing tangents. Neither Harappan language is deciphered nor the language of Andronovo or for that matter BMAC.

[@shashwatkumar4204]

He supports Aryan Invasion Theory From 23:13 - 26:23

[@luvsuneja]

Well, there is central Asian inflow. It doesn’t mean these people were Aryans. The language a person speaks does not correlate with genetics.

[@Kapil_Abhi]

Aryan invasion is false!! Too many videos on this..Plz search out!!

[@shashwatkumar4204]

@@luvsuneja yes and that Central Asian gene is found more in the upper caste than lower caste and in the North and North Western part of India than in the South and Eastern part of India.

[@freandwhickquest]

@@Kapil_Abhi impeach fascist modi.

[@abhianand3316]

Vedic people (punjab) Elam (Dravidian)( tamilnadu) Mundari( chota Nagpur plateau) Tibeto-Burman( northern mountain s)

[@apurvaykk]

Omg! PATIDARS are not so-called 'FORWARD'. Good grief. Not that I subscribe to forward or backward. But Razib is wrong in that particular analysis that people who emigrated to the US in the 70s and 80s wrere forward. Groups. Infact a large proportion of them were OBCs. While the so-called forward groups were very few. His statement that 25% of the population was Brahmin itself suggests that majorty of the population wasnt brahmin. He never answers coherantly what the rest of the 75% was.. and patidars do not fall into the so-called forward category.

[@anuragsharma4159]

He doesnt sound like that harsh troller Rajeeb from BP.

[@veronicalogotheti5416]

The indu valley civilization was from people of the south The casts are not aryan They are hun

[@narayanprasad4008]

The word Aryan does not refer to Caste . It is just a prefix to recognize an honorable person . Europeans weaponised this word .

[@Austenite762]

You dint hear Raqeeb correctly He said North Indians have more Indus valley gene Nd south Indians have more Andaman gene So stop this bullshit dat South Indians were Indus valley folks

[@user-zy8vk2ip8o]

It looks like its difficult to be truly neutral... Such hate for brahmins!! Why? Why? (First look at what proof exists for Brahmin oppression??? Is there any?? Such a small percentage of the population!) So you will definitely look at data with that lens... we need to find some way to double blind this area of work. It might lose all meaning!!

[@suyashawasthi1]

Proof of Brahmin oppression? Did you just miss the whole history of India.

[@user-zy8vk2ip8o]

@@suyashawasthi1 you seem to have missed it. Sunce you believe history as told from colonial eyes in last 200 yrs We are much older than that.

[@suyashawasthi1]

@@user-zy8vk2ip8o Where did I mention I believe in history told from colonial eyes? When did I doubt we are much older than that? How are these issues related to what I mentioned?

[@user-jn1ts4wl1c]

>First aryan brahmins migrate the bengal area, naming the indigenous inhabitants as "dasyus" just for carrying out their practices trying to replace their culture and language. Sena rule, which had introduced aryan brahmanism to the bengals, hence introducing the 4 castes system, not only excluding the lower castes out of the society but also persecuting common people, specifically buddhist. *Wojak seethes about supposed brahmin oppression*

[@user-zy8vk2ip8o]

@@user-jn1ts4wl1c Such huge lies perpetrated by British. It suits you Islamists now.

[@shibanighose8694]

Why is he perpetuating the old theory of steppe migration which has been thoroughly DEBUNKED now???

[@discomallu9769]

Yeah, they are calling it migration instead of invasion. Basically all these studies are to further slice and dice us.

[@indravrtrahaana763]

@@discomallu9769 Thinking this way,genetic studies are nothing but to slice and dice all countries? Ideology should be based on truth,not vice-versa.

[@discomallu9769]

@@indravrtrahaana763 yes I believe studies like these are the best way to keep a diverse but poor population of weak state with subpar economy and infrastructure, constantly on the boil

[@indravrtrahaana763]

@@discomallu9769 But just because there is flood somewhere you cannot ask rain to stop!🤣

[@discomallu9769]

@@indravrtrahaana763 did I ask for these studies to be stopped ?

[@3ipl]

I think Buddhism was more popular in Bangladesh before Islam. Could be the reason why they don't have caste system. They were not that Hindu to begin with.

[@Pork393]

What a poor knowledge. Calling caste as 2000 yrs old is factually wrong! The division u talk about Abhinav is the Jati & the other is Varna. Seems u r confused & not well informed???

[@sarak220]

It's not interesting who cares

[@anonymouslyopinionated656]

smart people care