Re-Maiden of the Dart 250 with iNav 5, and Autotune.

[@jonesnforfish9649]

Thanks!

[@bonafidepirate]

I appreciate the support more than you know!

[@holaperrito2554]

I prefer step buy step videos and your video walk through of INav 5 convinced me to upgrade to 5.0 thank you

[@stevearodgers]

Audio sounded great!

[@Chris-vc1dh]

hi how to be able to have dynamic vtx power?

[@brubakerjm]

My Diatone Ripper R690 exhibited the same roll-during-pitch movements during Autotune on 4.1. I have way too much mechanical surface movement so I assumed that was a function of a poor mechanical setup. 4.1 also autotuned pitch feed forward to almost 200. I lowered it to 90 (to reduce massive pitch bouncing) and I now have *very* little pitch authority. I'd love to see you do a P, I, and D tune on the Dart and see your results as well as possibly tweaking the recommended settings to mitigate horizon drift. Thanks for sharing, Keith!

[@bonafidepirate]

Hmm, that's odd then. lol I assumed it wasn't anything iNav was doing, and if it was someone would have pointed it out by now. I think in my case my control throws are a little too low. Oddly enough my FF on pitch is also ramped up high after the autotune, 255, maxed out in fact... lol I've since raised the throws mechanically, and will load the stock tune back in and start over. I'll see how it behaves before and after autotune this time. While it was loiter it really felt like the dreaded horizon drift at first, but from what I've seen in the past that generally just pushes the nose down and it never recovers. This one was falling then climbing again. It also didn't show signs of any bad drift when turning in acro mode right after that. It's something strange either in the FC or the airplane itself. It will be fun to see if I can pinpoint it! lol

[@tachyonpost1472]

Thanks for the vid. Did you ever find out why you saw roll when you input pure pitch. Have done a maiden on mine amd see the same so looking around for some tips.

[@flyhigh1491]

Hi, when I switch to autotune in acro it doesn't show in OSD autotune. So I'm afraid it's some problem with entering this mode. What's can be wrong? Mods are ok and testing in on the desk seems to be OK.

[@holaperrito2554]

Your Audio sounds good now. Loud enough for me, I’d say it’s good.

[@bonafidepirate]

Great! Thanks for the feedback!

[@53roger]

Thanks for the video. Good info. I am just about ready to maiden my Dart XL enhanced (inav 5.1, Matek F411Wte, first time using Inav on a FW). I have a question about saving after landing. I noticed you went into the OSD screen to save which was a surprise to me bc i was not aware that was possible. I never noticed the option (i am using 2.5.1 on my quad). I was reading the Inav wiki which says to land and save using the stick commands which shows throttle stick to lower left corner and aileron to lower right corner. Do those stick commands not work or its just your preference to go into the OSD? Appreciate your help

[@bonafidepirate]

The stick commands should work, I just like doing it in the menu to get a confirmation that it's doing something is all... lol

[@hughmarloweverest1684]

Thank you

[@Caroline_Tyler]

I lost one of my mini talons to that unstable loiter, the same plane was lovely and stable in loiter under INav 3 but since 4.1 I am learning not to trust it in loiter.

[@bonafidepirate]

Well that's no good! I never used 4.x on anything, went straight from 3.0.1 to 5.0.0, though apparently some of the auto tune stuff changed between 3 and 4. I'm still not positive what the root cause is in my case, but I've made a few small changes and will start over with the stock tune when I fly again, and see if it's any better before and after autotune this time.

[@AerialWaviator]

Overall a good re-maiden Keith. The roll with pitch input during autotune seemed odd. Was not expecting to see this. It did seem to become less after autotune, but not completely gone. Only thing that concerned me was loiter on RTH (safe-home) and porpoise in altitude and speed (or horizon drift). Wonder if this related to the Dart250g descending in altitude as it entered loiter mode? Wound be interesting to descend first (last waypoint), then enter loiter to see if behaviour differs. On the waypoint mission there was no issues with any of the turns, all very smooth, consistent altitude and airspeed (no horizon drift). I was admiring how consistent and dialled in the horizon seemed to be during the waypoint mission. Even from the initial re-maiden launch horizon drift was minimal. I'd be almost tempted to have a plane do a two waypoint hold pattern vs. circular loiter on a single waypoint.

[@bonafidepirate]

I agree, it flew great right from the start, and seemed fine after the autotune, other than the loiter at the end... lol The weird coupling between pitch and roll is one I can't figure out, yet. I doubt it's anything iNav is doing, I have to think someone else would have noticed that by now. I know it's been flown and tested plenty by the time the stable release came out. Pretty much ruling that out... lol I also don't see anything weird with the airplane, servos are fine, both moving the same amount, linkages are set up the same, etc. I'll see if it's any better after making a few little changes and starting over. (bumped the throws up, and changed the mixer for 40% roll and 60% pitch)

[@North49RC]

When i auto tune i noticed the inherant roll as well. I thought it was my thumb swinging the arc from top to bottom. The pitch on was anemic compared to the roll as well. Might just be a wing thing.

[@spartan3299]

Definitely the case on my Nano Goblin Plank style.

[@bonafidepirate]

Yep, I think just about every wing I've flown is more sensitive on roll than pitch, with the "elevator" being so short coupled relative to a traditional design. I think I'm going to raise the control throws mechanically with the linkages, and see if it tunes better. (suggestion from Marc) Then maybe later I'll play with the weights in the mixer and see if I can better balance the pitch and roll control. This is the part I find fun and interesting, sometimes... lol The fine tuning.

[@North49RC]

Always best to tune mechanically as much as possible. I increased the throws on mine and got more responsive pitch, then dialed bach the weights on roll some like you said. The Dart is a solid wing, i should get one sometime. Anything Zohd has never done me wrong

[@AerialWaviator]

With flying wings, often one servo is inverted relative the the servo in the other wing. So if there is an offset needed to position control surface to ideal physical tune, then the offset (auto-trim) needs to be added to one servo, subtracted from the other. This might be a bug in INAV (when a servo is setup as inverted for dual-aileron servo channels). If the auto trim is being added to both servos (not added to one aileron servo, and subtracted from the other aileron servo). Could be question for INAV team.🤔 It may be worth a double check to see how well physical neutral position (1500pwm) is to the post-autotune position of the control surfaces ended up. With a conventional (T/V-tail) configuration, there is a rudder input (possibly mixing) so than it could help to compensate for roll, should there be when adjusting pitch. Definitely not torque related, as motor was at nearly constant % throttle.

[@bonafidepirate]

@@North49RC After this flight, I've raised the throws mechanically (linkages out one hole on the servo arms) and while I was at it I adjusted the clevises to keep the surfaces trimmed, and return the servo midpoints to 1500uS. I changed the mixer for 40% roll and 60% pitch to see if it balances those better. I will load the stock tune, and start over to see how it behaves that way, then after another autotune. Hopefully that resolves it, if not there's something else weird going on! lol

[@johndeesfpv9289]

im having a problem with 5, im loosing my set ups and not sure why, iv had to reload my diff 2 times already.

[@bonafidepirate]

It's a known issue in 5, from what I understand if power is removed while anything is being saved to the board, next time it boots it sees something is corrupt (checksum doesn't match) so it loads the defaults as a safety measure. It will be fixed in 5.1, to be released around the end of August. In the meantime, don't quickly power up, then remove power, it saves the gyro calibration in the first few seconds after the board boots and calibrates. Also don't remove power immediately after disarming, some values are saved at that time too, like autotrim. There's an open issue on github somewhere that explains it all.

[@johndeesfpv9289]

@@bonafidepirate thank you.

[@gosurc1860]

Was there any wind?! It looks so stable for a 250g.

[@Super_Mario_Fpv]

Interesting, before I lost my talon I also noticed that the pitch was rather sluggish as well. But roll was fine.

[@fubarphill]

Interesting maiden and autotune. I have pretty much the same setup as you, except running it on 2S and currently inav 3.0 (maybe 3.0.1). Was thinking of using it as a 5.0 test bed too. I have noticed that I have always felt like I have had less pitch authority than I would like with this wing, but roll is great. I will definitely be looking to see if you can work that one out - my linkages are in the 'stock' setup!

[@bonafidepirate]

Yeah with the default mix of pitch and roll (50/50) this little wing seem to have more roll than pitch. I've bumped the throws up a bit mechanically, and reset the mixer for 40% roll and 60% pitch. I'll start over with the stock tune and see how it feels, then autotune again and see if it's any better.

[@GKCcisco]

Thanks for the vid I have a dart250 With inav 5. No maiden yet…

[@holaperrito2554]

Did you setup your fc so it changes power by distance? If so, can you please make a video? Thank you

[@bonafidepirate]

I'm manually changing it with a switch on the radio. However, do check out Darren's video here, he'll show you how to set it up to change automatically vs. distance, and even accounts for altitude as well: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKeYhXand9yAnqs

[@holaperrito2554]

@@bonafidepirate will do! Thank you

[@jonesnforfish9649]

How would you give it up trim for the maiden toss?

[@bonafidepirate]

I have a mix in my radio on a switch. If I flip that switch, it offsets the pitch channel by a certain amount. I'd have to double check to see how much, but it should be around 15-20% "up" elevator, that's what I usually start with. As far as the FC is concerned, I'm holding the stick back a little... lol It's something I carried over from back in the earlier days of FPV when there was no autolaunch on anything, and I found it hard to launch big heavy planes without a bit of up elevator to get them in the air. I'll likely set up auto launch on here soon. I use it on my Arduplane builds and love it.

[@horsship]

So when flying between Inav 5.0 and Ardupilot, which do you enjoy flying more? Not setting up, just flying.

[@bonafidepirate]

Arduplane for cruising around, having the link to Mission Planner is fun too.

[@jonesnforfish9649]

Can you do auto tune in Manual mode or does it have to be Acro?

[@bonafidepirate]

Should be fine in either acro or manual, but nothing that levels the plane like angle or cruise.

[@johndeesfpv9289]

@@bonafidepirate it wont let you tune in manual

[@spartan3299]

Very strange behavior that roll with pitch. My problem has been pitch washboard like bouncing on climbing. I too have had poor altitude smoothing or holding on loiter on 4.1. Both yours and mine seemed to multiply with each undulation. Worse than an uncalibrated hot end temp swing or a toilet bowling multirotor. Mine has usually improved with additional auto tunes.

[@bonafidepirate]

Marc suggested I check the control throws, we're thinking they may be too low based on how the plane behaved in the air and the rates it landed on for pitch and roll after the autotune. I will probably revisit this in the near future and see if it's better after adjusting the linkages on the elevons. I never flew anything with 4, 3.0.1 was the last time I'd updated or installed iNav on anything... lol

[@adamlovell23]

Ya I've noticed inav gets pissed when I trim in the radio 😆

[@bonafidepirate]

lol Yeah, don't do that! :p It doesn't know the difference between trim and stick inputs.

[@eltio77556]

Please more ardu flights. 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤭🙏

[@spartan3299]

A little this, a little that. Whatever peaks your interest. How about INav Radar and a flight of 2?

[@bonafidepirate]

I'll get back to flying Arduplane soon. I've been looking at the AR Pro hanging on the wall, it's starting to look like it feels left out... lol

[@eltio77556]

@@bonafidepirate I have been looking for my next protect-vtol. It would be a good idea. Anyway you have a big runway

[@bonafidepirate]

@@eltio77556 I've not had much interest in VTOL really. It looks exciting for sure, but to me it's a lot of complexity in the airframe with the extra moving parts, more tuning, and slightly less efficiency for something I don't really need. As you said I have a big runway... lol If I ever built one it would just be for the learning experience and the challenge of it.

[@mkleespies78]

The drift is what bothered me the most.. the reason i learned arduplane