Reacting to Joe Rogan and Cam Hanes Broadheads MFJJ x Tim Connor (ep 75)

MFJJ and Tim Connor sit down and chat about many things archery including: Joe Rogan broadhead choice, Cam Hanes broadhead choice, and other random off shoots. #archery #podcast
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[@joshuadouglasarchery]

Perfect listen on a drive to muley camp

[@JoshandTim]

Awesome, good luck and enjoy ✊

[@cjr4497]

Ashby's No. 1 rule is to have a high quality sharp head. Sharp through the ribs matters. Having an Ashby arrow isn't all about weight. The next factor is arrow flight. Then it is FOC. The weight of your arrow is 6th on the list of importance. People hate what they think Ashby's preaches. You wont find one that hates what he actually does preach. Read his 12 rules of penetration.

[@coltonheuker1497]

I wouldn’t say Rogan’s new to hunting at this point. He’s shot more bulls than 90+% of hunters will shoot in a lifetime. Obv he’s had a unique experience but def has seen some action.

[@michaelpimenteljr3530]

I would guess Rogan has hunted and killed way more than you think. He's mentioned every year multiple hunts since 2013

[@thecalabungaboyz9500]

For sure, he’s a damn good archer as well.

[@charlesgrubham2736]

I have never seen Joe hunt. Always has a guide and is the shooter.

[@michaelpimenteljr3530]

@@charlesgrubham2736 I've never seen these guys hunt.

[@outlawcustombows]

I'd bet Greentree has killed more than Hanes and Rogan put together...

[@geoffmcdaniel7082]

The question I always ask first in these conversations of penetration vs wound channel is where is your aim point? Are you aiming at the vital V and the heart or are you aiming further back just trying to "Double Lung" the animal". Cause depending on where you are aiming should 100% drive your arrow/broadhead setup.

[@dennyvillemure1088]

Countdown to Oct. 1 in Michigan....

[@jon_because]

It starts tomorrow!!

[@cliffnicholson2210]

My arrows last year were 478 grains with a 2” Swacker and both my kills were pass through. (30 and 32 yards) shot placement is more important then arrow and broadhead. This year I’m trying a 410 arrow with a 4 blad slick trick and G5 Montec.

[@85ZERO17]

HOW MANY YEARS HAS TIM BEEN HUNTING

[@bigz5262]

His whole life. But casually. He has said he wasn’t serious about it until a few years ago

[@manbearpig8971]

So, what is it about the Ashbey foundation information dont you like?

[@SlimPickins_07]

Ashby saying he stopped testing with compounds because he got too many pass thrus. Almost like speed does help 😂

[@stpaul0859]

I went through the phase of chasing speed. And then I got caught up in the heavy arrow crowd. Now that I have learned a whole lot more I am back to speed with some balance.

[@wayneswendsen8310]

Love the conversation, and I appreciate how the RF has emphasized a sharp, solid broadhead. But if you compare an arrow flying at 315fps and an arrow flying at 260fps, at 60yrds the difference in time to target is 0.12seconds. How can you argue with a straight face that you can determine how much the animal will move? I don't think that is the argument here when talking western hunting. The only argument is how much arc you can get away with in your environment. I do like the conversation, because it make us all better.

[@bigz5262]

Plus at 60 yards they’re probably not jumping the string, it’s the sound of the arrow

[@michaelvstheworld3680]

Why is it my 672 grain arrow going 150 fps out of my recurve is fast enough for whitetail, but my 920 grain arrow going 213 fps out of my compound is way too slow? Granted in both scenarios, I rarely shoot past 30 yards.

[@Cooldibs]

Why tf are you shooting a 920 grain arrow out of a compound? That's ridiculous.

[@michaelvstheworld3680]

@Cooldibs thanks for proving my point

[@bigz5262]

920 is insane! But also awesome

[@jsienesi]

You basically answered your own question with the last line of your statement 😂

[@michaelvstheworld3680]

@@jsienesi huh?

[@justinmulvaney7323]

Does “adequate penetration” have a direct value? Certain % of arrow length? Is it dependent on the targeted species? I understand shot placement is also incredibly important. I would like to know about penetration only, isolated in a vacuum, without other factors to consider.

[@ryanbealer4280]

I have a lift 29.5 and what pisses me off about the grip is that if you remove the grip, you lose HALF of the arrow shelf!

[@ez7977]

I removed my grip and shoot bare metal bow on my Phase 4, I loose a bit of shelf, but I dont understand why that matters? never effected me. The arrow does not rest on the shelf, nor does the shelf do anything for your grip if you are holding your bow correctly, or even half correctly.. please explain what issues you are seeing? thanks

[@ryanbealer4280]

@ez7977 first, I've put on a third party grip so I don't have any problems. Without it, there's a safety concern in general when you have broadheads installed. Secondly, I use a hamski drop away rest and the little arrow holder that sits on the rest barely sits on what little shelf there is.

[@Cooldibs]

you don't need it. That's what your arrow rest is for.

[@ez7977]

@@ryanbealer4280 - I see your points. I have a hamskea too so I know what you mean. to get the little arrow rest on the shelf it is offset from the center of the rest. I personally think the broadhead concern is a mental thing that concerns us but is not really an issue. my opinion, if your fingers are in the way, then we are holding the bow improperly. regardless, thanks for you response!

[@ryanbealer4280]

@ez7977 there's also the risk of shattered arrows. There are some dumb people out there. I was at my local pro shop yesterday and they just had a guy dry fire his bow and he claimed he was just trying to warm it up! Like, wtf??? Lol

[@dannybrandonTX80]

My prediction: With the limb issue the Lifts had, Hoyt is going to grow substantially… and for good reason. After my lift limb splintered, two weeks before going on Colorado back country elk hunt, I lost all confidence in my setup and headed straight to my local shop (West Houston Archery) and shot every decent bow they had. Confidently left with an RX8 Ultra. Best shooting bow I’ve ever owned. Way nicer than any of the Mathews I’ve owned or shot. Smooth and so easy to get bullet holes. Don’t get me wrong, I still like my Lift, but I love my RX8 Ultra. Will be very hard for me to look at another Matthews before wanting to look at new Hoyt bows in the future. I’m not a big Dudley fan, but I know lots of people are, and he will likely bring Hoyt some extra customers this year. If Hoyt exploits this opportunity correctly and market it right, they can grow substantially this year.

[@BowHunter74]

The best podcast period!

[@Nicholas.m777]

I shoot the altra centrum 350 spine ,with the beast broadheads. My arrows weight is just at 400 grain my draw is 28.5 and my bow is 70lbs light fast with a head that cuts wide

[@wyohntr]

Really appreciate the nuanced broadhead discussion that acknowledges that there are pros and cons to each. Very often this conversation is heavily weighted to one side vs the other.

[@workinonitsteve]

Great pod guys. Look up the Paul Harrel meat target.

[@SlimPickins_07]

Rip 😢

[@bigz5262]

Mathews don’t care about the grip because it hasn’t really affected their sales numbers. If everyone is going to slap on an aftermarket grip anyway why spend the time redesigning it?

[@SNAGEMNTAG3M]

Not a knit pick just a question and I'd love to get y'all's thoughts on the hybrids fixed with expandable ... personally I use a fixed at a closer range due to cut on contact and flight and then at further distance mechanical heads also shooting a hoyt rx3 that pulls at 74 pounds 80 percent let off and running axis match grade 5mm 28.5 draw at 650 grain brass 75 grain insert idk the foc off the top of my head Btw love the content keep it up really informative and keeps me on point about helping new hunters I've gotten into hunting to grow my group love ya guys thank you MFJJ for all the input of course hope to see you guys at the Redding shoot next year

[@jeffspencer7489]

Anyone else tired of the debate of arrow weight in the industry? Use what works. For me, I hunt white tails and use an arrow around 450 grains with no issues or penetration. I’m sure there are people using higher weights successfully as well.

[@paulhenry8586]

This is all I know for a fact. I know that I've bowhunted( and even shot some ibo shoots when I was younger ) for 35+ years. And in my early years you only had fixed blades and slower bows hahaha and I saw deer shot with every configuration known to man. And I saw a lot more deer escape wounded back then than now by a large percentage. I also know I shot every fixed blades you can imagine from Magnus two blade heads to muzzys to razorback 5s thunderhead 3s to rocky mountain titanium's to every satellite head they ever made and even tiny rocket bacon skinners and i killed deer with them but I lost several too. The second year rage broad heads came out I had already sworn off mechanical s from bad experiences with the rocket aero head three blade expandables. I lost two nice bucks with the rockets two years in a row and I was done. Then a buddy gave me two packs of rage two blade originals and since that time I've been on a streak of around 100 whitetails killed outta 101 shot with an average recovery rate of about 60-65 yds. The one I lost was due to me hitting my elbow against the tree on a really weird angled shot causing me to drop my bow arm shooting low through the top of the deers front leg. I can say the biggest reason mechanicals became so popular in the whitetail woods is merely outta convenience. You can grab a pack of straight fletched arrows off the shelf throw on most mechanicals and they'll shoot like a feildtip and need less mechanical perfection in your bow set up ie tuning not being as big an issue to a point . So the average whitetail hunter who doesn't shoot year around or know how to tune and create perfect arrow flight are going to naturally go the easiest route with the best results . This is only in the whitetails woods because that's what I do and can't speak on mechanicals performance in any other situations.

[@jetskiordie7976]

Tim, having a resource like Podium would be really smart to have a flagship bow shootout. Get EVERY bow from Josh, get 3 more guys with different level skillsets, and complete a shootout by gathering the data. Just like the bike, auto, or golf industry…but better.

[@jon_because]

I'm going with the sevr hybrid this year for first mechanical. Shooting a 425 grain arrow at 250fps on whitetail only. I have confidence bc of the fixed bleeder to try it even with my lower speed bc of my short draw length. I can't wait to see how it works and I don't shoot for the vital V. I shoot a cpl inches back for lungs vs heart

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

That would be so much fun. I love doing shit like that. I have all kinds of stuff down in my garage that I plan on getting to whenever I get more time here. I have three boys 12, 7 and 3 and 1/2 SOE. I'm constantly doing something with them and whenever I do get some free time after they're in bed I'm usually tired cuz I have to get up before they do. It's just rough but I'm sure you know the feeling there. Mfjj I can't wait till you find that medium so we can see that video. Thank you guys for everything. Thanks, Tim

[@westinsatzinger7854]

I will say this as a very novice bowhunter as I've only been seriously bowhunting now for about 7/8 years. I do flat out enjoy gear content and learn as much as I can about all bow set ups/arrow set ups/broadheads etc. One massive eye opening experience I recently had was bowhunting in south africa this past august. We were pursuing african plains game. I used my 442 grain RIP TKO arrow with the evolution hyde mechanical going 288fps 29.5" draw and 70lbs bow. It absolutely wrecked the couple animals I shot. The huge thing I noticed was how the small exposed blades on the evolution hyde on the mechanical part are sharpened all the way around so the blades begin cutting immediately on impact. I had a hard quartering away shot and hard quartering too shot, both left massive holes and put the animals down insanely fast. My PH was very impressed with the design and even wanted to try and get some in his own hands. As to what he uses for 95% of his african animals (BESIDES CAPE BUFFALO) He uses a mid 500's grain arrow and 75# bow with 28" draw. He uses exclusively Sevr 2.0. What I found super interesting, is how many animals he shoots with his bow (hundreds and hundreds over the last few years) how often he reuses the same broadhead. Just because the cost of broadheads would be absolutely insane. He showed me one sevr 2.0 that he had shot 6 animals with. Did not change blades and even ran out of the rubber bands and shot it with the blades locked and open from the start. He explained he had shot one animal this way at 57 yards and just dropped it (even showed me the video). Obviously this is extreme situations, but very interesting that he is able to put down animal after animal with a used sevr. They were big proponents of us using mechanicals because of the blood trail issues with fixed blades. Obviously low poundage etc. they discouraged mechanicals. But when we had 28" plus and 70lbs draw etc. They encouraged mechanicals. Just my experiences that I found interesting as I am still new and always looking to improve. But for now, the evolution hyde will stay in my quiver until I find something new, or get bored with it.

[@kip.k]

You could get pretty close to the light arrow set up with the mechanical advantage using a magnus stinger. Also, I got a $20 grip of Etsy for my lift. I'm not a great archer, but noticed an immediate improvement when changing over. Agree though, it sucks to have but an aftermarket grip.

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

I mean I know titanium would definitely work but it would be a really expensive broadhead but if you could get three of them for probably under $120 I'm sure that they would sell like hotcakes!

[@henrybright8531]

I’ve gotten full pass throughs on several whitetail bucks with 65lb, 28 in draw and rage broadheads. Never seen a reason to switch

[@royhoglund1322]

Why would you limit yourself to a stock grip when there are so many options? I understand if you are testing bows from the manufacture. But I don't understand if you are looking for a bow to purchase.

[@colbykinney5633]

The Natal study was done using mostly antelope and warthogs. African games vitals is way more forward than most critters. That's why African hunters are more worried about heavy bone.

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

I actually have three of those grim reapers in my quiver. Now that are the hybrids they're a inch and a quarter cut that are like the micro Hades or whatever and then they have. I have three different ones. One is an inch and a quarter with the inch and a half mechanical. The other one is an inch and 3/8 mechanical and then the other one is an inch and a quarter fixed with an inch and a quarter mechanical SOE. I wanted to try them all and see if I get clean pass-throughs or what the penetrations like and if I can use the biggest one. I'm going to go as long as everything works out well. I also have three of the beasts on my other arrows.

[@MikeVaccaro-o3c]

How did Fred Bear ever get it done. How about the Wensel brothers. Don't forget Chuck Adams.

[@MegaElkaholic]

Used to own a 2.9 pound bow,bare. It was a High Country,carbon extreme,lightest bow ever.

[@garrettaguillard]

In regards to the Matthew’s grip comments. Is it better to make a grip that most people like and some people don’t? or one that can be customized to anyone? Is there a perfect grip that a company could make that everyone will love?

[@B.Allen413]

Another great podcast! You guys are killin’ it! I look forward to this every Monday on my drive home from work.

[@Bearhawk_Life]

Interesting that “Bowtech shrunk” when it seems they have the most tunable bow. Does the weight of the Lift beat out the tuning of the Bowtech? Looking forward to the answer as I am leaning towards a Bowtech Core SS

[@Doober560]

Thank you, Tim for speaking some sense about Mathew’s. Yes, great bow but it’s not this knob fest everyone is obsessed with.

[@jordanhudson5075]

Hate to jump in with everyone on here about Rogan being new to hunting, but he’s not I’d have to agree with the people saying he’s shot more than most folks

[@adamlanger5327]

Wouldn’t using a lab radar to see down range deceleration rates for a tuned or untuned bow be an easy way to assess how much energy is lost? I think this information would be almost more beneficial than a penetration test.

[@papaschuette]

Wassup Brothers. Best way to spend my Monday morning. I agree with you, there's not much more they can due to make a bow shoot any faster. So, some design changes, and definitely more integration between companies is what the major brands are gonna focus on. Awesome mower review. I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes their electric mower. I bought a 21in 60v Greenworks push mower and weedeater. Sure, they're more expensive at first, but the money you save over the long run makes it well worth it.

[@silashall7512]

I’m here to leave a comment for the algorithm. Good guys seem like, learn a lot! Cool show and videos.

[@tommy001996]

I would be curious seing Tim shooting a Prime, if it can help for the bubble having more mass lower and grip higher

[@jon_because]

Season starts in the morning for me!!! Been a long 9 months of pain. And they say we don't understand.

[@ericandlindydubbelde3538]

How could somebody test to prove or disprove the "time to target" with light vs. Heavy arrows?

[@MegaElkaholic]

Does the average guy shoot 90 lb.?? NO more like 65 /70. More than enough DEER are not tough.

[@DavidBowCrazyBabyak86]

I just bought a lift used from a reliable person, it was a bow from January but I had no worries

[@wpshelton]

The “Smarter Everyday” guys might be able to help with the arrow testing?

[@davidwhite8909]

Speed kills mass moves mountains if you can do both nothing is impossible

[@Chriis_Perry16]

Interesting food for thought; a Pronghorn rib is thicker than an Elk scapula.

[@richardbaldwin7055]

On the fore mentioned Cameron Hanes video he mentioned a forthcoming Hoyt bow is impressive.

[@dhsu04]

I just want to see the new bows drop from all the companies on the upcoming months.

[@quintonmartin5507]

Reverse draw bow is how they will be faster. Bishop archery, I believe.

[@moneyking6659]

Thank goodness Josh's cooking has more seasoning than his feet!

[@Frankie4231]

Is the fire just to set the mood or is it actually cold in the room asking for a friend

[@TRRuss]

People can’t handle honesty. Feelings, pride and ego get hurt.

[@stick__shooter]

Why does it take so long for your episodes to get onto Spotify?

[@carloscaceres9298]

Change your grading to a 0-10 score. Great Pod cast

[@jons7e]

Let the good times roll

[@JoshandTim]

CMON

[@mikenutto396]

You hit it on the head , with everything is marketing. The point of a mechanical if it works, is cutting diameter. Your not hotting on the average bow hunter. Rogan and Cam shoot 500 grain arrows ,at 80lbs. That is a heavy arrow compared to what most people talk about. If your like dudley with a 31 inch draw it adds to the speed. So they all talk speed. Yet if you have an internal defelction on bone your either going to have little to no blood. Ive seem this more then once with guys shooting cross bows. Most guys are in the 28" draw length .You have to change things to get better penetration. This argument started because at some point, speed became the seller and they were giving everyone 400 spine arrows. It was whatvwas on the charts. Ive killed deer with those. Ive also killed a deer and hit broadside and the arrow deflected and came out by the rear leg. There are different times for different arrows. We can now reach 60 yards accurately, eithically on a whitetail not doing it. On an elk different situation. As an archer you have to find the balance.

[@bigz5262]

Can and Joe got custom 90 pound bows made

[@tbs74831]

The wolves have killed most of the elk in Idaho.

[@gordyduggan403]

I Agee that a sharp broadhead with good steel , along with perfect arrow flight is the most important thing . The last podcast with ranch and Ashby , Ashby said that he’s not opposed to having different weights and broadheads that would break bones but hasn’t found one yet. I wish more people would talk about sharp broadheads and good arrow flight than on weight and speed ,, once again good pod…… Tim might learn more if he watched the Ashby ranch podcasts that they recently put out .

[@bobbylewis1966]

Ashby said something along the lines of that it’s not attainable yet with our current technology in vertical bows and crossbows. They need a substantial increase in speed to lower that 650 bone breaking threshold

[@NimrodArchery]

430-550 TAW is all you need.

[@michaelpimenteljr3530]

The answer to the grip discussion is pretty obvious. It's an avenue for more revenue and sponsored revenue... It's a business straight and simple.

[@mgtnr9209]

I'm a couple years new to archery but got the lift last year and I don't mind the grip...maybe because I havnt tried anything else but to me it feels similar to the drill grips I use on a Daily basis

[@Practice2Perfection]

Thank youf or finally being honest and clear about the reality of fixed vs. mechanicals. Thank you for being honest about the reality and benefits of an Ashby 12 factor arrow. Thank you for explaining that the whole point of this type of arrow is just to be a contingency plan against hard bone impact and that they never claimed anything differently. This is all I've ever wanted, for you guys to just present the facts without your normal hints of bias. The idea of a mechanical hybrid with the proper mechanical advantage for penetration is GENIUS. I would be first in line to purchase a dozen just to support the cause and the innovative spirit behind it. I'm really pleased with this episode. Thank you so much.

[@NODAK-x9x]

Funny choice of words "bias" as you miss his points right beside it as to why the majority of us think that mentality is goofy. Before this latest Ashby series, Ranch Hand was making videos trying to convince people to hit animals in the front butt, because that's what he does with pigs. So is it plan B or where we should be aiming?? The truth is coming out on that channel as well, Ashby knows that different arrow setups with modern equipment will breach heavy bone. It sneaks out at 10-15 second intervals, and then it's straight back to the agenda.

[@DarkGuardian94]

Birthday podcast! Let's go.

[@Muskrat78]

Speed is a huge factor for sure

[@DavidJ-iz3fx]

Great topic, just wish I wouldn’t have to see your legs from such an angle

[@outhere1990]

Can't keep your eyes off them manly legs huh?

[@lynnydimes2353]

16:50 is that a giant wart Josh?

[@BlumeAngelo-t3x]

Riley Viaduct

[@JTFII]

Kinetic energy is speed and mass. Because speed degrades over distance the more reliable variable is mass. This is the ashby foundation findings

[@jshobe393]

Speed will also degrade faster with more mass so there is probably a happy medium. Cough 450 cough

[@bigz5262]

@@jshobe393 faster, lighter arrows slow down faster

[@JTFII]

@@jshobe393 thats not what newtons law of inertia says. Josh bowmar shoots a 650 grain, 90lbs and over 300fps. Heavier objectsin motion stay in motion

[@tobymatkowski]

monday morning and a coffee, here we go!!

[@JoshandTim]

Yesssir 🤝

[@djlaxton5687]

Wheres the video of their broadhead convo? I haven't seen that yet

[@JoshandTim]

Cam’s KZbin Channel. Video is also linked below in our description

[@xcr-fg7nd]

Watching George Ryals I’ve heard the anchor point may change from 20 to 120 yrds. Also, that peep sight alignment is more important and touching your nose isn’t as necessary unless you’re shooting an Olympic recurve. Thoughts?

[@hunterslifestyle625]

.

[@MegaElkaholic]

My guess is Adam has taken more game than Joe and Cam put together. People should take notice of his set up. Same bow and arrow combination for rabbits to Buffalo. CUT on contact two blade for better penetration.Most American bowhunters have limited experience actually taking game. In australia you can hunt 365 days of the year,no limits on numbers as they are feral.You can shoot more game in a week than the average American in a lifetime. YOU can tell the dynamics of the conversations Joe was probably picking up the TAB.

[@SlimPickins_07]

Until you realize some folks in the US hunt hogs darn near every day. We have year round animals to hunt also, but I do admit I would love to try some Aussie hunting

[@MegaElkaholic]

Notice i said most.​@@SlimPickins_07

[@TD3_Archery]

73lb bow at 26" draw, 388gn arrows, sevr hybrid 1.5" broadhead, shot my buck though the heart as it was quartering away and the broadhead shaped the opposite leg in half and was between the fur and shattered bone. Heavy arrows are for people who make alot of bad shots 🤷‍♂️

[@rescueridgeadventures7776]

Hunting is now cheaper at the grocery store. Thank God for bidenomics

[@Matto_Harvo]

Steve Hanh from Archers Supplies Australia would be a stud on the pod

[@ryanolson2430]

I gained more experience this year on elk. I'm shooting my heaviest arrow to date. 327 grains. Expandable broadhead. Elk died within seconds right in front of me. Actually that has been my experience on all my elk. I used to shoot a 290 grain, that punched through at 60 yards, elk went less than 10 yards. Shooting a heavy arrow is like wearing a hard hat while laying tile.

[@joshjohnson1748]

What speed are you getting?

[@ryanolson2430]

​@@joshjohnson1748I haven't tested it at 75# yet. At 80# I was getting 312fps.

[@ryanolson2430]

​@@joshjohnson1748290 grains at 76# I was shooting 327fps with my MR6. The lift shoots a few fps faster than the mr6

[@longrangeredneck1335]

What arrow is that light

[@bigz5262]

What arrow?