Real Swordsmen Test Lightsaber Lore

[@jameslovejoy9624]

As explained in "The Clone Wars" and "Rebels", the blade-to-blade attraction is actually unique to how the Darksaber interacts with regular Lightsabers.

[@Qui-Dad-Jinn]

May the force be with you my young Padawan learner.

[@bigbear4120]

9:50 count Dooku's light saber fits that description well. He also had a claw on the bottom of his blade emitter to grab blades. He does it in the TV show. He fights with a fencing stance too.

[@JainaSoloB312]

At no point does Dooku's blade emitter guard have any useful function, so far as I'm aware. It certainly doesn't grab other lightsaber blades. It is in fact (breaks my heart to say it) a terrible design that pretty much only guards the unbreakable energy blade and doesn't remotely protect the hilt or user. It makes no sense it just looks really cool (and that's fine!)

[@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight]

​@@JainaSoloB312 I just want to say that having Jaina Solo as your pfp/username is based AF. I love the SWEU!

[@Kaldimaar]

If you look at Obi-wan vs Grievous, there is an example of sliding down to cut the hands. I remember hearing that this was because they couldn't figure out a good way to choreograph Grievous fighting with four sabers and wanted to neutralize two of them as quickly as possible. To my knowledge, that is the only real example of the blades sliding like that in the films.

[@JohnMasterCheif]

in the first Darth Bane book also has an instance of blade's sliding. bane nearly lost a hand because his opponent did it

[@shml5093]

In the cutcenes in jedi survivor its fairly similar to the first option you did where it seems like sometimes the swords function similar to long swords but there are alot of one handed thrusts into small binds and alot of the fights also have people using force in the lightsaber choreo with dagen straight up levitating his lightsabers in one of the fights and vader blocking cere with the force and i feel like you could make the argument that theres a slight pull for the lightsabers and that in the right hands you can use it to enter the bind or attack from a weak position and not worry about and not worry about an instantanious counter attack

[@django3422]

Just wanted to drop this in; I recently saw a Shorts clip of Lucas explicitly saying he envisioned the sabers as having weight and mass because of the concentration of energy. Probably doesn't check out scientifically but we're talking space fantasy. Point is, you're 100% right. However it works, lightsabers do have weight. Also, I guessed 5lbs. I was almost right. =P

[@aguynamednathan]

"No attraction, with friction" describes all of my ex's

[@mrptr9013]

The saber (slashy guys) combat looked very cool, but yeah, the last one is the winner.

[@austonvarner9142]

As someone who doesn't have to choreograph these, the bouncy blades were my favorite, followed by no attraction+no friction. Sabre fights are real stylish with lots of whirling blades, and the thrusting back and forth gives the fight a more swashbuckling feel. Probably more fitting for sci-fi series about space pirates or something than Star Wars, though

[@austonvarner9142]

Actually, of the ones you choreographed, I think all of the ones that resembled a single weapon looked cooler (and, relatedly, more distinctive) than the one that looks most like the movies Though what I really want to see now is a movie or show where different types of lightsaber fit different each of these different sets of properties, with accompanying in-universe pros and cons for each...

[@Kezarus]

I... I don't think there is a better practical analysis than this one. You considered options, experimented, both have an extensive background in HEMA and fight choreography. Hell, you even show footage of the films. For me, it's clear and settled. Well done! =]

[@gustavchambert7072]

With the "they dont attract but there is friction" option, you really could just have people using pretty much any historical style of swordsmanship. Which would be a great way of giving some life to the "forms" of Lightsaber combat from the old EU. One set of forms are various European longsword. Another set are various rapier systems, a third could be various Japanese styles, a fourth European military sabre etc etc. That would have given soooo much interesting variety to lightsaber combat. Fffffffffuck, why doesn't Hollywood respect sword choreography?

[@Ghibli-Dude]

@@gustavchambert7072 they need to include worlds and lightsaber types based on wuxia jian or samurai katana. Use the fencing style and the sword. So much creative variety is out there. Visions could do this (already has with the katana).

[@JainaSoloB312]

​@@Ghibli-DudeYou should watch The Acolyte, it uses a lot of Wuxia and Samurai inspiration

[@spooderp1074]

"Guess how much this weighs" me: 6 pounds "You're wrong, 6 pounds" me: :(

[@schonnj]

Well, if, you're wrong with the correct answer, then they must also be wrong. 😀

[@ducklinsenmayer7681]

Should have converted to credits :)

[@AlrenClan]

The way that the lore explains weight, is that because of the way the force works and interacts with the Kyber crystals and the user, it has a kind of simulated mass that depends on feelings and tuning to the force or smth idk.

[@schonnj]

I love the false start with the "damn these things are noisy".

[@theimperialfox112]

as someone who really likes Star Wars and swords this is awesome! also there needs to be a Star Wars themed Hema club that would be sick

[@lochsleafmedia]

@@theimperialfox112 check out the Saber Legion. Basically lightsaber HEMA.

[@juliaskalla3979]

Only A Sith Deals In Absolutes!⚔ In all seriousness i love how serious people are about all the lore that is just stuff people made up for Space Wizards sword fighting and magic

[@williamfeliciano8980]

That is very cool and it would definitely be awesome if the SW made choreography as good as you guys or like what the Corridor Crew guys made. Also what nobody seems to address is how the jedis precognitive abilities influence the choreography. Obviously if one fencer has precognition and the other doesn't it would be a slightly one sided fight but when both fencer have precognition, whether it be equally powerful precognition or various different levels of precognitive ability, how does it affect the fighting and how do you show it in the choreography?

[@PBoneSteak]

This was a really cool dive into the lightsaber as if it was a functional weapon! I will restrain myself from diving back into Wookiepedia, for that is a dark, dark path. Very neat stuff!

[@JadedJackalope]

How much do you think this big sword weighs? Probably like six pounds. You're wrong! Six pounds. Hah.

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

Have you ever tried getting one of those silicone unstable lightsaber blade sleeves? I imagine they would give you that grip and prevent the sliding. You can even make one pretty easily from clear silicone caulking.

[@BabyStealingDingo]

I like the final iteration breezes it reads more organically and in line with the movie fights. It also agrees with the various combat forms of lightsaber combat in world lore.

[@JamieNorrish]

Bros casually making better chorreography for every theoretical lightsaber physics than any of the disney choreography

[@JainaSoloB312]

You should watch The Acolyte

[@666FallenShadow]

@@JainaSoloB312 i'm still pissed it got cancelled. it had flaws, but so did star trek the next generation in season 1 and that show had 24 bad/mediocre episodes in the first season and only starting getting really good in season 2

[@ArthurArathorn]

Fun fact, real life plasma does have mass and occupies space so it would just be like a normal sword, only brighter and hotter. And if you see stars colliding their gravity makes them be drawn and combine so the sabers being drawn to each other would make sense too. So the drawn with friction is the most realistic with plasma blades.

[@oscaranderson5719]

attraction + zero friction would make for an amazing comedy setting

[@Miryr]

A style that I've only ever seen used in memes is people turning the sword on and off strategically both to unbalance or impale people from directions they weren't expecting. I think in the right moment that would be quite effective.

[@Dr.AutismGod]

They'd just hit you cause they'd already be aiming for you and you removed your defense.

[@Miryr]

@@Dr.AutismGod I get what you're saying but not necessarily depends on positioning

[@oscaranderson5719]

⁠@@Dr.AutismGodbeats. it’s kinda like how leg cuts are usually a terrible idea unless your opponent retreats.

[@kyleflanagan963]

I generally think that you are right and this has more or less been how I've seen the mechhanics of lightsabers for a while, but I would add one thing. The one way that lightsabers seem to behave differently in the sequel trilogy vs. the original and prequel trilogy, is that they seem to be "bouncier" in the sequels. This is best seen in the flashback where Luke strikes down at padawan Ben Solo, and the sabers bounce like they're made of plastic. I think this is where people have made the argument that "lightsabers are supposed to be attracted to each other" because they see that this looks wrong and that is a simple explanation to express how they are being depicted differently. Instead, I think a better explanation is that sequel trilogy sabers are being depicted as having a certain degree of elasticism to them whereas movies before them treated them like rigid steel bars that bounced very little (but could still be beated away). So the attraction thing does come from a real place, but it's an inaccurate explanation. And one that I admit, I perpetuated until I thought about it a bit more.

[@Djones0125]

Keep up the good work guys. Love your content.

[@SellswordArts]

Thank you so much!

[@Emaster5000]

I'd say the blades definitely have weight, because in I think clone wars, the inquisitors literally fly with them, so there would need to be mass to displace the air enough to actually get off the ground. Thought I'd drop this

[@michaels9595]

Cool a member video. Thanks!

[@chrisreilly1290]

I would really love to see a fan film made by you two, during the old sith wars or something. Like Ryan vs Dorkman or whatever that old sfx fan film was great, you guys could do that but realistic

[@SellswordArts]

We actually have done that in the past! Working on a reboot of our fan film currently

[@chrisreilly1290]

@@SellswordArts ooh! I shall find it

[@AntonDVasiliev-ss1ie]

i've seen quite a number of star wars vs earth fan scenarios on youtube, which mainly covers the military side on how the earth combined force fight the empire or the confederates, but now i'm also interested how would an earth swordsman would do against a sith if they pick up a lightsaber character ideas: olympic saber fencer, hema hobbyist, cossack regiment personnel, and (not forgetting) kenjutsu practicioner

[@anton.chigrinetc.96]

I am shamelessly promoting Fiore here, but largo longsword plays would be perfect for the "drawn together, no friction" option. Either you strike into his strike, deflecting it at the same time, or, if he sees your intent and tries to drive the blade away or push through, you can just yield the line and strike on the other side. The "follow through" option would make a good quick draw duel: you throw a zwerch, he counters with a powerful zorn, you yield and strike around. Also, seriously disagree about the Anakin vs Obi-Wan duel: from Obi-Wan's perspective, he is fighting his newly found brother and, while repeatedly saying that he is "doing what he must", he still wants to bring him back. From Anakin's, he still thinks he fights for Padme (yes, after brutally choking her), he lets all of his rage for his former mentor out, and, at the same time, he subconsciousnessly wants to die. The fight is built up to show the fighters as equals. Except, the moment Anakin utters: "This is the end for you, my master.", and Obi-Wan realizes he actually has to "do-what-he-must", he ends this fight in seconds. Which shows that Anakin was just an overrated clown with a lot of ego, and Obi-Wan was way above him.

[@JainaSoloB312]

Yes but very little of that is expressed through the actual choreography itself. Though I do think the part where they both spin in place, as silly as it looks, does prove that George intended for this to be a very mirror-like fight. With the only storytelling happening in that Anakin is usually on the offense and Obi-Wan is usually on the defense, as you'd expect from their personalities and Forms.

[@anton.chigrinetc.96]

@@JainaSoloB312 There were far too many moments, where Obi-Wan could have easily killed Anakin. Most notoriously, when they are both disarmed. Both before and after Anakin kicks Obi-Wan to the ground, he could have easily slashed him/pulled a lightsaber and slashed him. Heck, when Anakin made that dramatic jump at the beginning of the duel, Obi-Wan could have used the Force to let Anakin fly directly above him and into the lava. The choreography simply shows that they are "equal" with a few unexploited openings on Vader's side. Only because Obi-Wan doesn't want to kill Anakin on the spot, but wear him out and make him listen to reason.

[@Me-da-Ghost]

I have an interesting theory/headcannon about lightsabers (it's probably contradicted somewhere but I think it's still a cool theory nonetheless) My theory is that lightsabers are actually extremely heavy, but the force-users we see using them are able to use the force to dramatically enhance their strength and speed, making them look lighter than they actually are. It's already widely established that the force can enhance speed, so this isn't much of a stretch. In lightsaber fights, we often see characters swinging wildly and with a lot of force, which wouldn't make sense since lightsabers don't require much force at all to cut through objects. In this theory, the goal of these heavy swings would instead be to knock the opponents lightsabers away or even straight up out of their hands, or wear them out as they would need to use a lot of energy to parry (this also explains attacking the blade instead of the body). This is actually already somewhat part of the lore; for example, we often see characters pushing with all their strength in binds, and forms like Djem So are described as relying on "brute strength and pure power, with wide, powerful strikes". A lot of the lore also talks about how channeling anger can help in lightsaber duels, and this wouldn't make sense if lightsabers were light, since you wouldn't need a lot of strength and power to swing them around anyways. With heavy lightsabers, the additional strength and power from the anger would help much more. This would also help to explain the lightsaber fights in the sequels where the characters are straight up swinging the lightsabers like baseball bats,. Those characters are a lot weaker in the force, and if lightsabers were very heavy, they would naturally have a hard time using them without force strength and speed. I actually have another theory relating to lightsaber fights and force strengh/speed. What if force abilities are able to dramatically increase the practicionners' speed, but don't have much of an effect on their reaction time? If they had the same reaction time/mental processing speed, they wouldn't be able to just use the extra speed to speed up regular fencing techniques, since their brains wouldn't be able to process everything at the higher speed. Instead, they could use the extra speed in other ways, such as to build up more power, which would especially be helpful if lightsabers were very heavy and powerful strikes were useful in tiring out the opponent as described above. This would explain a lot of the large spins and flashy choreography we see in the movies, and why it's so different from real-world fencing. Anyways, I know that the real reason we see spins and wide, sweeping swings in the movies is probably just because it looks cool, and not because of any of the reasons I just mentioned. Still, I think this would work as a cool theory/lore explanation behind it.

[@desaturatedair]

judging by what they're doing in a new hope i dont think they require a whole lot of force considering theyre pushing eachothers sabers away using what doesnt look like much strength while in a bind the reason the sequel duels suck? because the actors dont know how swords work and assume they're supposed to be 40 pounds like "real swords" (not how it works), or some other reason. if the lightsabers were that piss poor at weight you'd just be using beskar swords and using the force for something else and just using kyber for better things the real reason why they have swings like a real sword? because it looks cooler than cheeky little itty bitty snappy motions, its the same reason they dont just slide down the hilt to remove their opponent's fingers from the plane of existence

[@vominomi]

@@desaturatedair Actors don't make the choreography. Also if Sequel duels suck then do the Original Trilogy duels suck too? They're basically done in the same style.

[@desaturatedair]

@@vominomi you have no idea what youre talking about, the OT duels make it clear who is attacking who, and there’s purpose behind the strikes. the sequel duels just look like redditors who watched too much anime swing comically large glowsticks at eachother

[@vominomi]

@@desaturatedair The OT duels are full of wild baseball bat swings, sabers not cutting railing, Vader tripping on nothing, Obi-Wan even does a useless spin people always complain about in newer duels. Stop bullshitting and take off the nostalgia goggles. There's not a single duel in Star Wars that's actually "good" under the criteria of realism.

[@desaturatedair]

@@vominomi just go watch the duels for yourself at this point

[@johannesbowers7467]

Here are some of the physics of lightsabers: 1. lightsaber blades are not weightless they are made of plasma, plasma is a state of matter, matter has mass. 2. Lightsaber blades are not static, the plasma is in motion from the emitter out to its calculated shape and back to the collection ring. Essentially it is a plasma chainsaw constantly in motion at an extreme rate of speed. It is this mass in motion that generates gyroscopic effects very different from a normal or even vibroblade. 3. In addition to the unnatural gyroscopic effect in hand there is also the explosive knockback generated when the lightsaber is actively cutting an object, flash-vaporizing matter in contact with the blade, unskilled wielders will actually bounce the blade rather than follow through for clean cuts. 4. further complicating things is the intense magnetic field used to shape and contain the lightsaber blade, making it difficult to maintain in contact with another blade or resistant/shielded items. Is it can skip, skitter, or even kickback like a chainsaw blade pressed against a steel plate. Another important thing about lightsabers and lightsaber crystals is they do NOT use an optical model and lenses, It is more like the quartz crystals in a radio, "TUNING" the arc of plasma making up the blade to a specific Wavelength (thickness), Amplitude (length), and Frequency (color/pitch) defining its stable shape. A single crystal establishes a FIXED shape. Dual crystal arrays allow alteration to EITHER length or thickness. Triple crystal arrays allow alteration of BOTH.

[@JainaSoloB312]

This was all true in Legends! In the new canon it's far less scientific and far more mystical. I think both are fun, but the new canon is certainly closer to what George envisioned, and I personally prefer it.

[@johannesbowers7467]

@@JainaSoloB312 Schroodinger's Ewok. Everything in Legends, unless explicitly contradicted, remains "on the table" for use, reuse, and adaptation. The only explicitly contradicted element is the bootlegging of the Khyber Crystals (stolen from the Kaibuurr Crystal "Splinter of the Mind's Eye") into the universal lightsabre standard crystals instead of [Insert anything gem-like if the Force says its okay]. Even the Sith "Synthetic Crystals" aren't explicitly obliterated just because they ADDED the "Bleeding the Crystal" ritual for CORRUPTING a "Jedi" Khyber Crystal. Both styles can be true at the same time.

[@Subutai_Khan]

Recent canon confirmed that lightsabers have mass too. It is mentioned explicitly in Mandalorian and in Star Wars Rebels. It seems like lightsabers are also semi-living or living things like an extension of the user so a lightsaber can be easier to handle if you and the blade are in sync. But even in this case, they very clearly do have mass. The lore with red crystals is that Sith bleed them so they may bend to their will. So when the jedi say that they are one with their blade and the force they mean it literally. It may seem a bit silly but these lightsabers should be thought of as magical swords first and not really as sci fi weapons. They were never meant to make much scientific sense even when George Lucas envisioned them. Even the idea of so much plasma and heat concentrated onto a blade makes no scientific sense as you would set everything around you on fire. It never was supposed to. It is just cool.

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

If lightsabers were real, I'd want a longsword style crossguard dual-phase lightsaber with a LONG second blade phase. And it would be able to split into an arming sword style one handed lightsaber and shoto dagger, like The Stanger's lightsaber. I'd also get a blaster and cortosis gauntlets with an integrated expandable shield.

[@jmgerraughty]

17:36 Not trying to excuse the bad choreography, but my headcanon for it is that in the decades since the Jedi and Sith orders were destroyed, the art of Lightsaber combat hasn’t really been passed down in any formal fashion - it could be argued that Luke’s style is really workmanlike, and inelegant compared to Anakin’s, etc. A stretch, I know. I’d be interested in your take on the lore’s use of classical fencing in Count Dooku’s style. I guess Christopher Lee was an accomplished stage fencer, and they incorporated it into his lightsaber sequences.

[@michaels9595]

That was really entertaining and informative actually! Great content Could you do a choreo for shorts that incorporates a ground slide, a jumping attack, and a can of soda?

[@Treisiess]

Seems to me if there was attraction then when ever the blades got in close proximity like Luke is Vader in Episode 5, the blades would naturally come together even when not engaging with them

[@RadicalTrivia]

Every fight between Force users is a Force battle FIRST, which sometimes includes lightsabers. This means that there is an invisible struggle happening during every fight that influences the combatants. It's the reason why Yoda and Palpatine don't just Force choke each other immediately, they're fighting with the Force WHILE using sabers, and also using the Force to wield the blades. Notice that all non-Force users who fight with a saber either have enhanced strength/speed, or treat the blade as if it's VERY heavy. Also a big reason for all the smack-talk (Dun Moch) - trying to mentally distract the other person so that their connection to the Force falters.

[@Stargazer-gs9uu]

The blade has no weight. It's structure is light. It's like saying a laser pointer has weight. There is an example of the wielders waving random attacks on the Death Star in a new hope. It happens moments before Obi Wan allowed himself to be struck down.

Excalibur did of course weigh 40 pounds. If you count the rock it was embedded in 😊

[@angrybirder9983]

I honestly wonder how much a cortosis-infused (lightsaber resistant) vibro-rapier would break lightsaber combat. But obviously, that's a horribly bulky weapon (like a real rapier, duh) because it doesn't retract when not in use.

[@iamtheJEST]

lightsaber lore is a mess and i love every bit of it

[@Timeblade_Guild]

Very cool!

[@SellswordArts]

Lucky for us we have awesome lightsabers. Everyone go check out the Timelacer!

[@chrisreilly1290]

I think the blade does have some weight, but i think the bigger factor is a gyrosco... ok i guess you thought about that lol

[@justinreeder1458]

you are right for all the fights they where i think originally suppose to be weightless as they where suppose to be harder to wield then most blades but i think for the fight secenes it was to ackward to have weightless blades

[@theinquisitor8112]

Hey, I said eight pounds - that's CLOSE to six!

[@Bigslam1993]

I guessed 5 pound I was wrong, but not in the way you probably expected.

[@Azarvail]

You're correct, I did guess the weight of the sword wrong, I said 5 pounds lol

[@ricardomano9596]

Lucasfilms need to hire you guys desperately

[@pedroromarhernandez6554]

If there IS no mas then there IS no Matter and there can not be any drag, nir interanction at all

[@TheQueerLeaf]

Cool

[@rylie8989]

Why do you think they are weighted similar to single handed swords rather than being weighted like longswords? In the movies they are almost always used in two hands, only occasionally used one handed, ie just like with longswords. (Vader's one handed use in empire is during the section of the fight where, as you pointed out, Vader is literally toying with Luke. The Kylo Rey fight you showed is a big exception where both mainly go one handed, but honestly I just ignore that fight bc it sucks. Other than those I feel like one handed use is mostly in brief moments under specific circumstances) If they were lighter don't you think they would primarily be used one handed? And yeah I always interpreted that bit about attraction from rebels as a badly written line that was intending to indicate there is friction rather than like a magnetic pull. Generally I wouldn't default to assuming the literal meaning of a line is accidentally completely unrelated to what the writer wanted to convey, but like you said there is zero attraction between sabers shown even in rebels itself lol

[@rylie8989]

Oh and I know there are examples of people who consistently use sabers single handedly, like Dooku's fencing based style or anyone who uses dual sabers, but I always assumed those sabers were altered to have lighter blades at the cost of less cutting power than normal. I know most people think of all lightsabers as instantly cutting through anything like there's no resistance at all, but that's also an idea that is actually fully contradicted by what's shown in the movies.

[@evandropaschoalini5940]

Yooo

[@BillyBeary]

I said 5 pounds

[@santadipbiswas9266]

The people in star wars can are superhumans. So 40 pounds is nothing, both luke and derth veder were stated to be stronger than the freaking death star. ( look it up if you think I am lieing)

[@SellswordArts]

Yeah, cuz no one else ever picked up a lightsaber in the films. It was only a Jedi or a sith. Definitely not Han, or... Like a ton of other people

[@ProtoBoobs]

Itd be neat to see your ideas for things you could do with the force mid saber fight, besides the obvious big force push or big force pull.