Baldwin IV of Jerusalem: King, Leper, Crusader - History vs. Myth

[@RealCrusadesHistory]

A magnificent interview with historian Dr. Helena P. Schrader on the life of King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem.

[@carloscactus]

I enjoy these discussion style videos, gives a nice perspective and balance. Still one un-answered question, did Baldwin IV wear that mask like he did in the movie or is that Hollywood? Also iI think it would be great to see a video like this with Dr. Helen Nicholson about the The Knight Templar. Just my thoughts!

[@converter7]

+carloscactus I don't think their is evidence about a mask one way or another. But the Hollywood portray was based on the historical fact that it was the social norm in the period for lepers to wear masks. Especially those high up in society.

[@armoda1057]

hey have you seen the directors cut of kingdom of heaven? its incredible how much better it is than the theatrical cut.

[@PennyCilllin]

The woman constantly interrupting other speakers with "yes, yes, yes" is not only rude and completely inappropriate for recorded audio, she's adding nothing to the conversation.

[@danielculpepper9258]

I recently watched Kingdom of Heaven again and I cant see Baldwin IV portrayed as a weak king who seeks peace with Saladin! He was not after permanent peace but he was trying to avoid outright confrontation with the Muslims because he was aware of the dangers and didn't want to fight them unprepared! That much is clear in the film...He was an excellent strategist, a good soldier and leader of men (and in my opinion also an honest man!) He was far from being a weak king or someone that did something wrong... He's attempts to preserve the peace were not because he didn't want to continue the christian fight but because he spotted that he's kingdom is exposed and in grave danger at that particular time...They were surrounded, outnumbered, had no easy connection with Europe, no prospects of getting any help or new soldiers, no water or provisions to do long distance expeditions through the sands etc.... He's decision to not chase the Syrians and Egyptians in the desert was very wise and one cannot but admire him for he's sense and thoughtfulness. On many other occasions he had proven himself as a great leader and very successful king even at that early age! Add to that all the suffering from leprosy and you can see a person who deserves all our respect! If he was to further live, the kingdom of Jerusalem would have survived, perhaps all through the middle ages...

[@RealCrusadesHistory]

Kingdom of Heaven got it wrong. Baldwin IV was not interested in peace for peace's sake, he only made truces to rebuild and prepare for the next fight. He was a Christian triumphalist, and wanted to utterly defeat and crush the Muslims. He was also bellicose, taking the fight to Saladin as often as he could. He did not believe it was important to build bridges of understanding between Muslims and Christians, and he certainly didn't think there was something special about protecting Muslim or Jewish peasants in particular "because it is right" as the Baldwin character in the movie said. He was far more interested in protecting Christian common people and facilitating their ability to practice their faith and dominate Jerusalem. Like all Latin Kings of Jerusalem, he forbade Muslims or Jews from even entering Jerusalem.

[@danielculpepper9258]

Well if this is what you meant then I agree unquestioningly. Baldwin IV was certainly not looking for peace for peace's sake. I also cant see him as someone preaching "kingdom of consciousness"...this is of course some far left infusion from our own time. We may argue as to what this really mean and if we agree on treating Muslims and Jews fairly etc.based on our own political convictions but I don't think any of this was on the agenda in Baldwin's time.

[@prof13fugazi]

The Crusades was pay back for Muslim incursion into Europe(400yrs of it) No quarter was given even less was expected! ;)

[@chavrons1]

Actually the Moors from Morocco took over Spain from the Teutonic Visigoths for around 781 years until Charlemagne invaded. France was always fighting within themselves around that time. The Normans were often fighting wars within France with other Christians and Pagans. Rollo was a viking presumably originally from Norway who was given land in Normandy and his descendants were the French and English Kings. King Fulk of Jerusalem was from the Tribe of Judah and related to King Charlemagne.

[@chavrons1]

I had the feeling from the Film that Saladin respected Baldwin.

[@dashinvaine]

Great discussion. Baldwin IV's affliction was one of history's great tragedies, a valiant leader indeed. Oddly a comparison that springs to mind is Freddy Mercury, in so far as continuing to achieve marvellous things despite being destroyed by a horrible illness at the time. It's also a shame that at the time of Baldwin the Knights Templar had one of their least lucky and least level headed Grand Masters presiding, in the form of Gerard de Ridefort.

[@keysac22]

Great to hear from Dr. Schrader. However it would have been a much better listening experience to have not had the other woman there at all. What purpose did she serve anyway? Just to add extra noise to the talk?

[@javiervonsydow9686]

Wow!! Thank you very much for an excellent video clip on this subject and for the knowledge and expertise of your guest as well as the knowledge of the hosts. It has been a long while since I've been exposed to such a good quality presentation, which certainly has an academic level. Thank you for putting this together!!

[@RealCrusadesHistory]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@RobinLynnGriffith]

This is wonderful today is July 28th 2020 you put this out 5 years ago but you know what today right now I'm learning a lot of things and I think this is absolutely wonderful your guests do a fantastic job thank you so much

[@johnguill6129]

I like the documentaries a lot. I wish the History Channel still broadcast such documentaries. The podcasts are OK. If there was a way to turn them into something more like a documentary they would be better.

[@FreedomFighter08]

Baldwin, Balian & Richard are my heroes amazing achievements achieved. They make Saladin sound so overhyped. Richard made even the muslims doubt Saladin as he was not seen as an unbeatable commander anymore.

[@ЖанарМухаева-е6ч]

Ричард весьма сомнительный персонаж

[@sheilahorn8913]

Thanks!! Learning so much even from these older videos!

[@RealCrusadesHistory]

Glad to hear it! And thank you!

[@19553129]

Thank you for the informative history on Baldwin the IV.

[@danielvasko6897]

Finally, a good and un-biased documentary on the Crusades.

[@SaratAnimation]

Baldwin 4 my hero.

[@MrFarnanonical]

I prefer Godfrey.

[@ibtasamatta5372]

This is not real history of baldwin read any book

[@Sforza_1994]

@@ibtasamatta5372 What books?

[@omarmattoussi389]

😂😂😂

[@muhammadkhizer269]

Saladin Aaubi my hero

[@davidsouthwell4763]

I too have been searching for more info on Baldwin IV to no avail. Seems that he was not the best written about possibly due to his geographical area. I think more may be eventually obtained by searching through the medieval Arab records.

[@colorado9125]

Imagine if Baldwin 4th didn’t have leprosy what more he could’ve accomplished, wish we could have lived longer than he did.

[@Tripyourift2]

I love your videos but your guest Deanna always seems to contribute very little the conversation as opposed to your other guest speakers.

[@chrismusix5669]

If only King Baldwin had someone like Legolas to help him save Jerusalem! Things might have turned out very differently.

[@lunaticzellot7792]

Yeah and why not just throw in Superman and the justice league. Pretty sure they're viable for historical semantics. =P

[@StetzMusic]

Chris Musix I’m sure he had skilled knights by his side. He rode with Templar’s and other knightly orders in certain battles. So I’m sure he had men who were as skilled as Legolas 🧝‍♂️

[@rlbbe5369]

Oh god, its my mom in the interview again:/...i like it better when u have knowledgeable guests on the show that contribute something rather than soccer mom asking silly questions

[@escape1777]

He was probably banging her. I mean...i'm not sure, it's just a rumor i'm trying to spread.

[@patsyk1213]

This is the best of all your interviews. Except for this one, I prefer your own presentations; which is to say that you have a great deal of talent in presenting history in an interesting way.

[@ellenampeloquio2183]

Truth is, no matter how great or feeble you may be, but once God took over, there is no impossible. Baldwin, though how intellectually brilliant and very resilient, is a very devout Catholic, and being a Crusader king, has great Christian faith. Bringing the big true cross from the very wood of our Lord with them in battle would be a clear testament to that

[@Jeremiah17v9]

Just bought a recently released book titled 'The Glory of the Crusades' by Steve Weidenkopf.

[@David-lu4gq]

I've heard it is a good book. Keep us updated if it's a worthy buy !

[@davehallett3128]

Good for you

[@boylostindark]

Film Kingdom of heaven portrayed him in overdone romantic way. In Arab sources it's possible to gain some information of his life and compare it to known western ones. He was surely a reasonable man, especially becouse of his sickness, he could understand some things others didm't. Militarily he was a good king.

[@RealCrusadesHistory]

He was totally committed to the defeat and destruction of the Muslims and the preservation of Jerusalem for Christendom.

[@CNNBlackmailSupport]

BoyLostInDark in real life, sickness is rarely a strength. I get it, we want to believe that weakness (in the form of an illness, in this case) is a virtue. We want to believe it provides insight and a deeper understanding of mortality and what truly matters. That may be the case today, if only because we've been taught that our whole lives. The truth, regarding antiquity, is that sickness, weakness, or physical ailments did not provide leaders with some magic compassion or understanding of humanity. More often, it created paranoid and ineffective leaders, and in many cases, we look at accomplishments through the lense of our age. As in "he did a great job despite being sick!" We forget that sickness would have put him on a timer for glory or success. In a world where brutality is the norm,(compared to today) that timer would have screamed "MORE BRUTALITY!" or at the very least "most efficient route to success because you are dying" I promise, as a chronically ill person who is only alive due to modern (1970ish) surgical procedures, that I have never said "Good thing I shit blood, or I might not be compassionate and magnanimous." I merely have some experiences that others may not have, and a drive to complete my life's work before the inevitable moment when my intestines break down at the surgical seam. I understand being weak and sick, and I can respect that in others, but a leader in the middle ages (with a saracen horde on his ass, no less) would not be able to indulge in that train of thought. He was working toward heaven, as they all were, which was the sole driving factor (whether good or bad as an influence) behind his choices. Life is messy. Leaders of the past scrapped and scraped for every advantage, like Jackie Chan fighting in an office.(everything is a weapon, no matter how unlikely) They would also seek to negate or cover any disavantage, while also being regretful that they had those disadvantages. Of course, some were able to turn it into an advantage, or to make their condition favorably perceived, but that's more rare.

[@CNNBlackmailSupport]

BoyLostInDark in real life, sickness is rarely a strength. I get it, we want to believe that weakness (in the form of an illness, in this case) is a virtue. We want to believe it provides insight and a deeper understanding of mortality and what truly matters. That may be the case today, if only because we've been taught that our whole lives. The truth, regarding antiquity, is that sickness, weakness, or physical ailments did not provide leaders with some magic compassion or understanding of humanity. More often, it created paranoid and ineffective leaders, and in many cases, we look at accomplishments through the lense of our age. As in "he did a great job despite being sick!" We forget that sickness would have put him on a timer for glory or success. In a world where brutality is the norm,(compared to today) that timer would have screamed "MORE BRUTALITY!" or at the very least "most efficient route to success because you are dying" I promise, as a chronically ill person who is only alive due to modern (1970ish) surgical procedures, that I have never said "Good thing I shit blood, or I might not be compassionate and magnanimous." I merely have some experiences that others may not have, and a drive to complete my life's work before the inevitable moment when my intestines break down at the surgical seam. I understand being weak and sick, and I can respect that in others, but a leader in the middle ages (with a saracen horde on his ass, no less) would not be able to indulge in that train of thought. He was working toward heaven, as they all were, which was the sole driving factor (whether good or bad as an influence) behind his choices. Life is messy. Leaders of the past scrapped and scraped for every advantage, like Jackie Chan fighting in an office.(everything is a weapon, no matter how unlikely) They would also seek to negate or cover any disavantage, while also being regretful that they had those disadvantages. Of course, some were able to turn it into an advantage, or to make their condition favorably perceived, but that's more rare.

[@RealCrusadesHistory]

I admire who he truly was far more than the silly image of him created in Kingdom of Heaven. He was a strong, courageous ruler committed to winning victory for his people and defeating the enemies of Christendom.

[@Bigohda]

I came here by the game Darkest Dungeon lol

[@gunmier8938]

Who were King Baldwin's commanders?

[@jumpjump8157]

Hence the "Leprechaun" was born...

[@Kusoka1]

Amazing channel

[@marienancyocenat4147]

I love old time history

[@giannisampo4377]

did he even wear a mask?

[@GrimdarkCrusader20th]

Nope at least not in historical paintings

[@worsethanjoerogan8061]

@@GrimdarkCrusader20th That was probably a convenient invention by the movie since the makeup work involved to make him look leprous would be huge

[@davidorbach5406]

The first King of the Belgians, Léopold I, built a very big Statue of Godfroid de Bouillon in Brussels. The royal Dynasty in Belgium consider they are all descendants of Godfroid de Bouillon. Baudouin I, II, II, IV . The French took the power after them and it was a catastroph, they killed Saladin's sister and all the caravans. They were defeated by Saladin and had to leave the the Holy Land

[@AttackTheGasStation1]

Please, come on. 90% of history of crusades deal with France and french kingdom. Templars, predicators, hospitaliers, most of the Lords there, even a half of popes were french.

[@chavrons1]

MMM. Combination of Roman and Germanic i think. Charlemagne was Germanic whose soldiers invaded Italy so they mixed. Ah Yes a few around the 1300s were from France. Many were Romans. Crusaders came from UK to. www.umich.edu/~eng415/timeline/Urban.html The Apology for the crusaders was that French Pope.

[@chavrons1]

Most of them are Vikings however. Most of them have Viking ancestry.

[@chavrons1]

Baldwin Rabbi is actually from the line of Vikings. Puiset, and M. Lords in Normandy and most have DNA Ancestry with Rollo who was given Roun in Normandy.

[@AttackTheGasStation1]

chavrons1 Vikings are part of french DNA, like are Franks and Celts too.

[@paulh7026]

Was Saladin a Kurd?

[@TakodaTribe]

Yes.

[@thatdude1710]

No.

[@muhammadkhizer269]

Yes

[@Adventurerblitz]

BYZANTIUM?!?!?!?!?! ROME!

[@felixmonagas3972]

Vaticano

[@MrRalphie14]

I wish kingdom of heaven would of got it closer than what they showed

[@robertwolf7377]

I love my Christians brothers

[@willianbarr7612]

Chemical warfare..........past,present ........future or will it change and to what ......

[@kydpsychos]

THANK YOU BROTHER !!!

[@RealCrusadesHistory]

Thank you!

[@jujubee9422]

Damn the middle east has been at war since forever!

[@davehallett3128]

You figured dat out huh edith

[@ComradeCommissarYuri]

Sidetrack could his Agnes be the bases of why the character Caitlyn Stark sucks in a game of thrones?? I say this because she thinks she’s being smart while doing really stupid things

[@howardjohnson2138]

I always enjoy seeing or hearing about mohammidans bite it

[@KingOfShadows1500]

Howard Johnson Oh, the irony! You should take a look at your grammar before making such ridiculous statements. And what do you mean by ''one of us''? Did you assume that I'm a Muslim? Well, I'm not. There go all your pathetic attempts to insult a whole culture. It's too bad that in 2015, idiots such as yourself still maintain the ignorant and hateful attitudes of medieval peasants (and I say peasants because even in the Middle Ages, there were those who were educated and used to show respect towards others). Sure, every religion is retarded, antiquated, superstitious, nonsensical bullshit, but there really is no reason to hate people simply for adhering to one and it would be ridiculous to claim that one is ''better'' than an other - they're all shit and so are you: you wish to see people die because the magical sky-daddy in which they believe different from the one in which you believe. Brilliant!

[@howardjohnson2138]

bigfun.be/Picture/Archie+Bunker+Says....htm

[@howardjohnson2138]

I hope you roast in that unreality along with your profit

[@howardjohnson2138]

This sounds like the civility you hold near and dearing www.barenakedislam.com/2015/06/05/show-tell-islamic-state-isis-beheads-libyan-soldier-in-front-of-school-kids-for-educational-purposes/

[@howardjohnson2138]

Oh, oh, I see this wman's bare legs. Quickly behead her or at the very least stone hers www.mashreghnews.ir/files/fa/news/1393/7/10/744887_274.jpg Where is her modesty that the profit requires from all of us?

[@joelymariano8573]

defeat the invader forevere till now

[@hussar62459]

didn't robert the bruce suffer from leprosy?

[@CapitanCookies]

joe murrell It was his father I think

[@hussar62459]

The Bruce, too.

[@gapfenix]

I wonder what was the situation of Jews that time. Thanks

[@cmtat1976]

Drifting from empire to empire like the usually do.

[@egialknight1667]

+

[@raznov2864]

that is georgia

[@alexp4385]

going to bendigo morty

[@ismailkhan_officials]

i love islam

[@brandon_leeroy135]

+DaL you crazy.

[@ismailkhan_officials]

Hihihi

[@barriebrunsden]

thats your problem pissss be upon you

[@barriebrunsden]

i on the flip side cant tolerate this death cult with a paedo at its head

[@user-se3nz2wy1e]

I hate islam

[@manjrajputrai6070]

Salhu Din Always Winners over All European Christian Kings and Army allied army

[@RealCrusadesHistory]

Except when he was defeated by Baldwin IV and Richard the Lionheart.

[@AkshatSTR8EDGE]

Manj Rajput Rai bhak chutiye

[@thecrow7]

say that to richard the lionheart.. defeated him every time ...

[@ShockOfGayness]

Gee, this guy isn't biased.

[@kenzonakamura8258]

+ShockOfGayness its not biased. its real. Christian lands were defending themselves (north of middle east was Christian). do you honestly think islam took over the entire middle east by self defence.

[@Ceylin_Kurtbogan]

How much you hate christians is ridiculous. Considering they will probably be the ones that would try to protect you from muslims trying to throw you from a cliff for being gay. You should know my ex religion's members are extremely homophobic. (97% homophobia)