Trans Rights vs. Women's Rights with Kathleen Stock

My guest today is Kathleen Stock. Kathleen is a philosopher and a writer, and she was a philosophy professor at the University of Sussex for many years, until she was stampeded out of her job by a mob of angry students. As you'll hear in this episode, Kathleen's main offense was her views on trans issues, which are broadly aligned with people like JK Rowling and Helen Joyce. Due to these critiques of Trans activist ideology, she was more or less run out of her university. Kathleen's story didn't make as many headlines in America as it should have. However, it really is one of the most egregious examples of cancel culture since Brett Weinstein's debacle at Evergreen.
Though Kathleen and I don't agree on everything, as you'll see in the episode, I think the treatment she's received has been shameful. In any event, we discuss all of that in this episode. We talk about the conceptual distinction between sex and gender. We talk about whether one should respect people's preferred pronouns and I think there's some distance between Kathleen and me on those two topics. We also talk about the conflict between trans rights and female rights. We talk about what to do with female-only spaces such as locker rooms, bathrooms, women's sports, and prisons. We talk about what to do with children who self-identify as Trans. We talk about puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and surgical transitions. We also discuss the phenomenon of social contagion, detransitioners, and desisters.
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[@ColemanHughesOfficial]

Thanks for watching my latest episode. Let me know your thoughts and opinions down below in a comment. If you like my content and want to support me, consider becoming a paying member of the Coleman Unfiltered Community here --> bit.ly/3B1GAlS

[@SavGaEckmann]

@ about 33-34 mins. You are compromising your values and the truth. Thank you for these conversations and I respect you both. Here’s where I stand. I will use someone’s chosen name. I will not use the wrong pronouns. Those pronouns don’t belong to them. They belong to the sexed body. Real respect is shown, when being honest with another human being. That is the opposite of being patronizing. Patronizing is calling them by their preferred pronouns.

[@mikiafu]

@@SavGaEckmann What do you mean by pronouns belong to the sexed body? You are just trying to rationalize your close-mindedness and inability to accept social reality.

[@GoannaUK]

Professor Stock is a very articulate philosopher (quite hard to do!) who makes no outrageous claims and is someone who is not demanding people 'take sides', but rather, consider what language means in real terms, for women, if male people can, for example, be acknowledged as female when it comes to prison sentences. Self ID is a con. Vulnerable women have been paying the price for this for some years now. Enough, already. Society is rendered incoherent if we do not know which group of people - male - are impacting the lives and prospects, safety and wellbeing of female people.

[@thetshirtblog]

Would have wanted discussion on bathroom usage policies

[@SavGaEckmann]

@@mikiafu The pronoun he refers to the male biological sex. The pronouns she refers to the female, biological sex. There’s no closemindedness to it. It’s just a fact. The truth isn’t bigotry. The “ social reality” you’re referring to is just another regressive social contract. Transgender ideology is a regressive social construct built around regressive social constructs.

[@learningvidz4kidz989]

I can tell she started getting slightly annoyed when Coleman continually said "natal male" or someone born male" and she blurted out it's just male. All of this circumlocution and tip toeing is maddening. This woman is clearly a voice of reason.

[@BillClay88]

Hey, man .. I'm cis-het. What are your pronouns? Mine a .. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR PRONOUNS ARE!

[@backintodaylight]

I'm surprised that Coleman of all people would believe its in anyway appropriate or logical to change language in such a manner. It's very worrying. I undertand that people want to be respectful, but lying to people is not a helpful way of them dealing with reality.

[@lilyweatherwaxHRH]

Never watched this guy before (clicked because of Kathleen) - wonder if it just shows how easily people can be ‘brainwashed’? If a thing is repeated enough times, anyone who hasn’t thought critically about it might just unconsciously parrot what they’ve heard. Like a little kid. Until brought up short by someone like Kathleen?

[@ryansalwaysright]

Thank you for saving me a watch. I won't support someone who can't identify what's real and what's not. I've seen this argument far too many times. There's an ability for nuance but men are men and women are women. Everything else is a modification and should be handled as such.

[@harry011984]

​@@lilyweatherwaxHRH you've hit the nail on the head.

[@blove142]

She is spot on! "Trans" is the real social construct, that relies heavily on sex stereotypes and is regressive, if you are born male , then you should embrace that reality, and express that any way you want. so simple. Thanks Coleman, for another informative much needed discussion.

[@frankdracman4084]

yuppers, and is there a correlative term for "Tomboy"? None Ive ever heard that dont carry a negative implication. Girly man or much worse are the only things Ive ever heard. I suppose the origins of Tomboy might well have not been all that benign but over time its become so. Now I understand terminology and words arent equivalent to the multitude of inequalities women have faced for thousands of years, however thats because of a gender inequality about how men are affected by mere words vs women. A belief which is much more a social construct than a reality. Regardless of recent fruckus about abortion in the US, theres more forms of highly effective contraception readily available throughout the US and more than just the west yet as far as the courts are concerned custodial law and asset division in divorces the laws basically arent all that different from 100 years ago and woefully unfavorable to men. I dont know what countries treat men and women equally when it comes to military service other than Israel which insist both do 1 or 2 years of military service. And of course its poo pooed as right wing radical blather but there arent many if any long lines of women wanting to be rodent abatement workers, or ship hull scrubbers, or brick layers or a host of low paying unglamorous work men do 99% of. Why is there a term like Toxic Masculinity instead of masculine and feminine or just humanity? Im a big fan of Betty Friedan who strongly advocated that the feminist movement went much deeper than birth control, abortion and even workplace inequities and that was nearly 100 years ago well before a litany of legal changes as well as social attitudes that have happened since. She also was adamant that men needed to be included in the feminine movement, that they werent the enemy, at least not all of them. The extreme trans activists are just anarchists and temperamental children who wanna create chaos instead of enlightenment or unity, which is even worse.

[@serpentines6356]

@@frankdracman4084 Some of the worst things about the feminist movement though have influenced our society, to our detriment. Not supporting marriage, motherhood/parenting, creating a good family as the most fulfilling job in the world, for most people. So many young people have become shallow, and are suffering so much because of the shallow ideologies of feminism, neo-marxism, and now CRT, and this very destructive "queer ideology". I definitely agree with your last statement..

[@serpentines6356]

Well, it's just common sense if a child, teen is being confused, or has "gender disorder" then you find out what is going on, and try to help them become comfortable in their body. The very, very last resort is to do surgery if they really are one of those rare "trans" people who has gone through thorough counseling, and wants be like the opposite sex. Deciding as an adult. The "affirmation only" cult is evil In my book. Why so many people have gone along with them I do not understand.

[@Phoneybeetlemaniacxs]

Despite medical evidence ot isn’t what evidence do you have that overrides thst

[@AnneliedeWet]

​@@serpentines6356 shallowness prevails indeed...but I don't think it's feminism that took away the support for families. It's freewheeling men who want a young thing once his wife's body has been spoiled by birth giving etc etc... they want to bump the secretary while Mommie is at home with her new washing machine. There's always been a tacit understanding that men will be men, and that's a good thing, is the common belief. Fine, but not very family supportive, this roaming dog affirmation. In Africa where I live absent fathers are a fixed social phenomenon.

[@nycrae]

This woman is a superhuman. Not threatened by idiocracy. Gives me hope.

[@nicolerainier8498]

Yes she’s strong

[@Mrs.Stone99]

Yes...talk about integrity! Gives me hope too. She is brave and tough and willing to suffer for her convictions.

[@farmfarmdorrie]

She's an amazing individual.

[@MarcoBotelhodeSousa]

She really restores the hope that humans are actually human. Clear, articulate, straight to the point, fearless... Well, a Woman with a capital W as well as a Lady with a capital L. Cheers.

[@denniskavanagh1649]

Professor Stock is an intellectual titan and decent woman. Her dignity and decency is more than the gay rights movement deserves, and more than we will ever be grateful for.

[@Salamander407]

Well said

[@rbaker368]

Titan indeed. Well said.

[@brianmeen2158]

Agree but I have to wonder where this movement is going?

[@catherinerobilliard7662]

LGB don’t want the homophobic and misogynistic TQWTF+ forced teaming

[@lechakan]

The trans movement latched onto the successes of hard-won LGB rights. The LGB community wanted to assimilate into the larger society, and be accepted as contributing members to that society. The trans activist movement wants none of that. Instead, it wants society to change its practices and language, in servitude to their demands. It also demands surgical and medical conversions to avoid their inherent homophobia. T+ Infinity is narcissistic and toxic.

[@mcusta]

Imagine being so obsessed with yourself and your ideology that you'd actually conspire to remove an academic of such obvious quality from your university! Their loss!!

[@6422022]

my thoughts exactly. They are literally erasing gay people entirely. Most will not be able to produce offspring. Maybe this was the whole idea in the first place...have them erase themselves? It is the straight people that are literally trying to save them from them selves.

[@megazw7740]

Brighton. Unfortunately that's how it is here. Intolerant.

[@jesipohl6717]

She quit, she wasn't removed. She's just a quitter.

[@gmailyou367]

@@jesipohl6717they made her quit🤡 it’s the same 💀

[@sussexwoman]

She is a woman and she was hounded out, she was bullied she was threatened she was followed she was constantly intimidated comma it was absolutely terrifying and all you can say is she's a quitter. How long do you think you could put up with that day after day after day in your workplace?

[@Grimxxfandango]

As a gay woman I think these conversations are super important. I always thought when I was a kid a kid I wanted to be a guy. I was even told by my peers “you think you’re a boy!”. I’m now 30 and a happily gay woman, notice the way I use the word gay? It’s actually a word more acceptable than lesbian particularly in the work world I lived in and I’ve carried it into adulthood. We don’t hate trans people, we just want to give people the space to make up their own minds.

[@cecilelee2442]

Thank-you for posting. Transitioning is a serious medical decision with life long ramifications and those making these decisions need to hear from people like you. I know this isn't a comparable decision but I wouldn't want to live with the huge ugly tattoo I loved at 15 years.

[@Grimxxfandango]

@@cecilelee2442 I completely agree with you, and thanks for not seeing my response as an attack. I’m legitimately concerned about gay kids, I was a gay kid not looked after and I think if I was 10 years younger I’d be open to manipulation and think I was trans

[@kellharris2491]

Same. I was always considered a tomboy. I also hated when adults paid attention to my 11-13 year old self. I said I wanted to be a boy. Treat me like a boy. At 33 I am a bisexual woman.

[@RalphJBater]

​​@@Grimxxfandango... well according to Stock, your claims about what you perceived to be the case in your past is suspect (I disagree with her take) ..so accepting what you claim is true I can honestly say that as a gay person myself, I NEVER questioned my gender... going on the spectrum theory, perhaps you ARE more trans than I am... the problem, is that aside from your "self identification" (which Stock refuses to accept when trans people do it) you (or I) cannot prove these claims to have any truth..

[@sunni4715]

For me it's more or less the oversexualization of being lesbian vs just being gay

[@AF-gd7fh]

Nothing this women has said was controversial 10 years ago and now she has a fringe opinion, at least in politics and education. It makes me incredibly angry and sad.

[@DeePal072]

I'd add frightened. They literally kicked her out of her University and marginalized her.

[@chocolatesugar4434]

To say ‘I am a woman’ is apparently radical nowadays 🤯

[@jennieazak6724]

see Jennifer Bilek|Who is behind the TRANSAGENDA

[@brianbachmeier34]

Exactly

[@animaldefender0001]

​@@lks6248this is how Hitler got power. People are so weak, they just allow insane monsters to take over society. The same thing is happening with the WEF, WHO and monsters like Klaus Schwab and Bill Gates being allowed to take over the world and push totalitarianism on us all.

[@deanedge5988]

Its not just the intellect and the cool - its the courage...

[@highroller-jq3ix]

How is it courageous to jump on board the transphobic hate train?

[@elysanchez6740]

Indeed!!

[@Mrs.Stone99]

I'm so proud of this professor, she is so clearly exhausted and exasperated with this insanity and has suffered greatly for speaking out, yet she continues to do so. We need to be having these conversations in society and talking about these issues does not mean you are transphobic...at all. Discussing issues means you care.

[@jesipohl6717]

Speaking against scientific consensus is hard work. Be it denying climate change or the existence of trans people. Stock hates science and women.

[@alexarvanitis4331]

All I'm saying is, I'm glad I grew up in a time where my mom wouldn't take me to the doctor to get castrated because I liked singing Celine Dion.

[@selfpreservationsociety]

That's what I'm talking about

[@Kat-I-am3333]

I almost subbed, til you went along with the pronoun bs... imo, that makes you part of the problem. My sense is you are childless 😔

[@arnicalakes3880]

Phobic!!!

[@sueinraleigh3091]

Right? But I have heard parents say they are now scared to take their child to therapy for other problems lest they be shoved in to some sort of gender affirming program.

[@MichelleMikey-el6pb]

@sueinraleigh3091 yes. Go down the transgender rabbit hole. Trans people are actually being slowly eradicated by the permanent sterilization of affirmative care. AFFIRMATIVE CARE IS AWESOME

[@pancakepancake3789]

It's insane what this brilliant, articulate woman has been put through for simply being a truth teller. Seems like society seeks to punish those who think clearly and speak plainly these days.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

Yet she still calls herself a liberal??? How can she not become more conservative from this process?

[@pancakepancake3789]

@@ronaldreagan-ik6hz Just because you're not following the Looney Left off the cliff doesn't mean you agree with the Bible Belt Republicans. A lot of old school lefties (the kind that cared about the environment, the working and middle classes) are politically homeless now.

[@daisiesandpandas1218]

​@@ronaldreagan-ik6hz I don't think the British are as politically led like Americans. There isn't a great divide to be taking about red and blue States like America... Thank God.

[@ronaldreagan-ik6hz]

@@daisiesandpandas1218 yes. It’s gotten bad here. The policies of liberals are insane - yet liberals keep voting blue. It’s so crazy.

[@helenwebster6020]

Indeed it does…I wonder why?

[@cheapimitation2242]

This woman is a saint. Those people who harassed her out of a job are the real enemy of progress.

[@jesipohl6717]

She quit her job, she's a quitter in addition to being a woman-hater.

[@Sherlock245]

She dare not do a friendly debate with Blair white.

[@mootpointmusic7627]

This was a superb, polite and deeply informative interview. Stock is very articulate, and can calmly explain her position with class and clarity; she is, contrary to what you might see online, an uncontroversial figure that has been unfairly maligned. It's Sussex university's loss!

[@sarahmurphy-nf4yl]

WELL DAID 👍

[@MarcoBotelhodeSousa]

Thats the result of this absolutely shameful cancelation culture we live with nowadays...

[@lewreed1871]

Thanks for having Kathleen Stock on. One of the most powerful voices in this whole thing. She's brilliant.

[@moo9141]

As a mother of three tomboys my greatest fear is someone not standing up for my daughters’ right to be who they are , but to try to convince them they are something they are not.

[@Mrs.Stone99]

👏👏👏

[@jesipohl6717]

That fear is called transphobia and its based on nothing, only 1% of trans people regret affirmative care as compared to double digits for cosmetic surgeries. Stock is simply spreading misogyny and transphobia and you're buying it wholesale. Sounds like you're the only one set to pressure any children, imo?

[@wonderwoman5528]

Are your daughters Same sex attracted?

[@RobynNicholson-Reid-bz4hw]

Yessssss! Something they are NOT!

[@lilpinksliplee7310]

I was a tomboy and hated dresses always will. I am not gay but l can't imagine what people would have done to me if l was a 10 year old now. l loved my converses, blue jeans, and t-shirts to my mothers horror, and my hair was cut in a pixie. Just allow the kids to feel comfortable being themselves without labeling them at all. They will eventually figure themselves out. These activists and social media's are labeling them as one sexual group or another.

[@jesipohl6717]

Being a tomboy is not anything like being trans. what we trans activists want is that children can grow up knowing what kinds of people exist. What stock wants is for kids to never learn that trans people exist. The real threat of indoctrination is that everything is organised around cis kids and we know that intersex and trans children exist. Are you close friends with any trans people? Because from my perspective you are making up myths about people you have never met.

[@6422022]

This is what I have had to say to my girls without realizing that it was being taught in school. They thought they were gay or bi and I said its normal to be curious doesn't mean anything just let it sort itself out. Ridiculous what is happening today.

[@stardustgirl2904]

The world 🌎 is trying to erase people, from the world as part of the depopulation AGENDA❗🚩🚩🚩 They want to wipe out the white race especially, because of so called white privilege ❗🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩White people are really busy buying into this crap, without actually thinking about it ❗🚩 Children are no longer being born to people anymore ❗ Irish, Scottish, Dutch English are being targeted in the world ❗ We are heading to a very dangerous place in the world 🌍

[@mosaicsanctuary3]

Agree 💯. Enforcing labels and saying they need to declare to the world what their gender is in elementary school is harming our children beyond belief. It’s forcing confusion upon our children and then putting them in a corner to choose the most trendy gender, which is anything but their own “natal” gender. God forbid my daughter declare that she wishes to be the girl she was born to be. Not a popular choices! Leave them alone and let them find out who they truly are on their own! How did this ever come to be? It’s unforgivable and the lgbtq community forcing this agenda on our children need to be held accountable, penalized and brought to justice.

[@lorraine.-.]

Same, I was the typical tomboy until I hit my teens. That’s when my feminine side started to come out. Since then I’ve always been a bit of both. I’m a straight woman with a son, I like diy & power tools, but I also like to paint my nails & where dresses & heels. I’m a normal woman.

[@sardonic12]

Professor Stock is an amazing role model for all women and has many, many fans in Canada who support her stance on womens rights.

[@annlouise8909]

I concur!

[@highroller-jq3ix]

How is she a role model for ALL women? The majority of women don't want to be hateful transphobic bigots.

[@ambientjohnny]

@@highroller-jq3ix All TRAs support male feelings over material female rights and protections. "Trans" ideology is regressive sexism, YOU are the bigots.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@ambientjohnny All raging fundie transphobes are false feminists. Transphobic malice pretends to be about genetic females when it's really only about hateful, putrid, Taliban-level bigotry. YOU are still the disgusting, vile bigots.

[@ambientjohnny]

@@highroller-jq3ix Tell me exactly what is FEMINIST about allowing MALES into single-sex spaces reserved for FEMALES? How is even one single female on this planet helped in any way by having the right to single-sex spaces removed???

[@JD-xd4sy]

As a gay man - and a white person - not from the states, I always found the concept "cultural appropriation" somewhat strange and unrelatable. Until a former female colleague of mine who was very left-leaning, gradually turned herself first into non-binary, then "male", and now calls herself a "transfag." She can finally celebrate Pride as a "gay" guy with her boyfriend that she's had for most of her life. It feels like appropriation of "my culture" (not that I ever celebrated Pride or know many other gay guys). But it's like a slap in the face, to think that growing up as a quite voluptuous girl with feminine personality, suddenly can claim the lived experience of how it is to be a homosexual man.

[@LissLives]

That is how I see older men saying they are women. Did they go through puberty as a girl? Were they frightened to walk across a dark parking lot? Probably not.

[@JD-xd4sy]

@@LissLives I get what you mean. Nothing about them is female, and yet they claim to be something that they do not even understand. Many of those older chaps are autogynephiles too, meaning they have a fetisch for seeing themselves as "women." It's just rude.

[@blacksludgetoxapex5035]

Fellow gay man here. I feel the same. Solidarity Brother!

[@resolecca]

sad that people such as yourself have to experience things personally until you "get" them

[@JD-xd4sy]

@@resolecca It's the way of most things. We all learn through experience

[@embracingtheq5856]

As the mom of a trans-identified teen, I know first hand how trans ideology can negatively impact vulnerable teen girls. Hardest thing I’ve ever had to parent through.

[@Berryations]

Omg 🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@luvbug1318]

God bless! It's so hard to see our kids struggle or go through trauma, and the lgbtq has been taken over by transwomen who turned it into a terrorist group by threatening anyone who disagrees with them.

[@jasonrodriguez8569]

Why not raise your kid based on reality?

[@annas4843]

@@jasonrodriguez8569ou think is easy? Mass media is crazy influential, I look back during my teens when internet was only available at home just for the time your parents allowed you to access and still I got on with all the trends! Now I find myself wondering how all these people can follow daily “influencers”, Kardashian etc, be all day on Tik tok or Snapchat or whatever they are using. If I had kids already I would be very worried if I could handle it correctly for the kid to be able to critically assess them and not be influenced

[@paolavesgasalcedo3278]

Ooooooopooo

[@camsonnenberg4399]

Having activists come after you is affirmation that you think critically and share your thoughts honestly.

[@jesipohl6717]

undisputed fact, she's literally marched with and defended marching with neonazis. what does that tell you?

[@msmachiavella]

Kathleen deserves a medal 🎖

[@SavageArtificer]

Good conversation. You asked her views and didn't attack her. These are the conversations that need to be had. As a lesbian woman, her views on womanhood absolutely should not be banned on the broader conversations whether she's on the left or right. We need a space where these conversations can be had. Thank you for being the platform for this.

[@stardustgirl2904]

Yes, but why is it she's saying that men can't become women, and while I absolutely agree with that statement, why on earth 🌍 does she think 🤔 it's ok, to look like a man? She literally thinks, she can distote the image of a man! I find repulsive! All of this, is much bigger than this conversation! This is all apart of the depopulation AGENDA, the ELITES are pushing along with environmental issues! If you are looking for a real conversation on KZbin, go to Big Picture with Jennifer Bilek, she follows the money 💰💵 and brings out the truth about these issues! Elites are pushing this and we need to better understand why, and put a stop against it!

[@MM-li8nk]

yeah, and one of the much needed important places to keep these conversations would be universities, the irony!

[@Anon-v8o]

I’m going to assume that you’re using your husband’s account because of the profile picture

[@Pixietoria]

@@Anon-v8o The commenter here doesn’t say whether they’re a man or a woman themselves.

[@janeking9540]

By far the most rational and thoughtful commentator on this very present conundrum. She has thought through all of its connotations. Unlike other commentators, who tend to come at it with their own set of agendas. Here we have a woman who happens to be a philospher, paired in conversation with another philsopher. We need these highly intelligent and articulate people to help us on our journey to understanding what's at stake.

[@jesipohl6717]

bigot

[@The_Remnant86]

Excellent conversation. This women is of the character I want my daughter to look up to. Smart, well spoken & strong.

[@NicoleTedesco]

Dr. Stock and Coleman Hughes nailed it in this conversation. I was particularly pleased with their compassion for trans people while acknowledging that the current craziness has, unfortunately, changed the game for the worst. I like Dr. Stock’s use of “fiction” in this context. She defined it quite well, especially in explaining “legal fictions.”

[@KristaMorine]

The suicide threat is just that. Just think about when someone tries to leave a abusive relationship. The one being broken up with will threaten to kill themselves as a means to get the person to stay. It's manipulation in this context too.

[@Nyte_Kitty]

It's not just that, but youth in puberty are extremely emotional. Your first love you never think you'll recover from, your first embarrassing moment is a horrific disaster... Etc. The dramatization that comes with being a pubescent youth is often characterized by feelings of wanting to die or life can't go on after certain events that years later, in retrospect, are often remembered with the lense that one didn't have enough experience or wisdom to realize at the time that everything would be okay and those events and the people associated with them have little to no affect on your existence as an adult

[@brocktoon8]

Suicide among trans people is actually highest AFTER transition. 7 - 10 years AFTER transition, when they realize it hasn't solved their problem and has only added more problems.

[@heatherbishop9260]

Trans terrorist like to use this as an example to groom kids as early as 4 into yransing...they'll kill themselves etc. The question is that if their belief that the reason for hundreds and hundreds of children transing today isn't social contagion but the k8ds feeling safe to come out in hoards. Well then it's there are many suicides if they weren't aloud to Trans. Well why if they were oppressed for decades, why is there no massive suicides amongst children? It's a manipulation to scare parents and government to alow massive tran political move. There is facts that Trans people are coming out against their community saying that they regret the surgery and then being terrorized for telling people.

[@mingthemerciless886]

My wife was basically told that if she had said she had contemplated suicide she could have gotten a breast reduction on the nhs. In the same way "trans youth" are being coached into saying they have contemplated suicide (among other things) in order to get medication faster.

[@kellharris2491]

Another thing is its often a self fulfilling prophecy. If you are told you will become suicidal often times you do. This is called social contagion. They showed a film with girls cutting and using a certain common household item to throw up and they discovered some groups of girls started to cut and use that same item to throw up too. These things spread. This is why trigger warnings first started. Of course people went overboard like they do but we have learned in broadcast that the way we showed certain things caused them to be repeated. Young girls are particularly vulnerable because they have rampaging hormones during puberty. This is just the price of evolution that girls are more vulnerable to mental health. But the unseen is that boys also struggle too but to a less extent. But they are also less likely to get help because people aren't watch the boys as much.

[@caroline1919]

It's emotional blackmail to use suicide and fear of someone hurting themselves if you don't agree with their feelings and ideology.

[@englishgoddess8238]

That’s because they are a cult these people can only weaponise blackmail and fear plus hate. These teachers only showed up after Covid and they were put their by the government. And they are trained to lie and confuse young children. To push an agenda under the flag of lgbt 🏳️‍🌈. Now people will not believe this but if you’re child’s teacher has bright dyed hair and has pronoun pins and wears a Covid mask get your child out that school. The reason the government is pushing this top down is for the corrupt Big Pharma to make bank on confusing and lying to our children to make them live long customisers. We need to come together to stop this madness it’s pure evil and the democrats want life long votes this ideology is just like hitlers Nazis ideology and like communists china this Marxist cult is sick and children need protection more than ever before.🙏🤦‍♀️💔💔💔🥺

[@alexbennet4195]

Only if it’s disingenuous tho, right? If someone’s mental health is so shit they are actually suicidal, sharing that isn’t “blackmail”

[@mfoltz3720]

@@alexbennet4195 sharing it isn't blackmail, but sharing it in order to change someone's mind or acquiese a request of yours such as getting carcinogenic drugs or mutilating surgeries, is however. You can tell someone you are suicid@l as a means to reach out for help without emotionally manipulating someone for something.

[@davc1995]

​@alexbennet4195 a doctor telling parents in front of their kid that their kid "will probably attempt suicide" if they don't immediately go for affirmative care is emotional blackmail and abusive.

[@videomakingfrenzy]

Kathleen is brilliant and brave. Thank you for interviewing her! I loved her book Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism.

[@janeking9540]

​@DoubtingThomas Examples. 🤔 Just curious.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

What is brave about jumping on board the transphobe hate train?

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@janeking9540 What are the examples you use to be a gushy fan girl?

[@janeking9540]

@@highroller-jq3ix Not sure I understand the question.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@janeking9540 You asked for examples of this person's negative, unprofessional, and provocative behaviors. I'm wondering about your examples of her exemplary, highly professional, or compassionate behaviors. In short, I'm assuming (perhaps unfairly) that you are probably a hypocrite.

[@Kernewik101]

Usaine Bolt could come out of retirement tomorrow, declare he IDs as a 'woman' & dominate Women's Sprint events for the next 5 years...legally. Crazy BS😢

[@lukecarey613]

Heartbreaking to see someone that’s been so hurt, yet continues with integrity.

[@rebeccapenders5050]

Professor Stock is a phenomenal woman. Her book was superb. Thank you, both!

[@freemind1923]

Des that bitch look like a woman to you sitting like a macho man!

[@Frannied]

I was mesmerized by this discussion. This professor has such compassion, intelligence and realism all thrown in. I really enjoyed her perspective and she was able to put into words a lot of my views that I have difficulty expressing.

[@Mrs.Stone99]

My daughter thought she was Elsa from frozen for atleast six mths. She believed that she was Elsa and that her name was Elsa, that doesn't mean it was true or that she actually was. (Before that she was Cinderella) My son was the "Flash" for 3 yrs and raced around the house like a maniac constantly. He wore his flash costume all day everyday...and slept in it too. Doesn't mean he 'was' the flash. Identity exploration is a normal part of childhood development, only insane adults think these identities are authentic, permanent and part of objective reality.

[@loftyradish6972]

I used to think I was a magic dog. Forced my parents to walk me on a leash and collar (I would crawl) and once memorably crawled out of the bath stark naked to bark at a visitor. If I couldn't have a dog, I would be a dog. And I would be a magic dog. Resolved once my parents got me a dog.

[@monalee7687]

I tried to pee standing up too 🤣. I grew out of wanting to be a boy. I am definitely a woman and being a mom to my daughter is so awesome.

[@jaijai5250]

Hahahaha. I tried it when I was approximately four years old, after watching my brothers and male cousins. I can assure you, I needed a bath and change of clothes afterwards. Plus the bathroom floor neeed cleaning!

[@monalee7687]

@@jaijai5250 same! 😆 I have an older brother. I think a lot of girls who grew up with older brother(s) have wanted to be a boy at one point

[@jesipohl6717]

this is not the same thing as being trans. how many trans people are you close friends with? sounds to me like a bunch of bigots making up myths about trans people. you lot are hopeless.

[@anneloving8405]

I wanted to be male coz I had extremely heavy periods that lasted a week and my cycle was lucky if it went 17 days(not 28+)I actually had quite severe iron deficiency as a result as well as I developed paranoia,agoraphobia and went from being stait A student to failing for the first time in my life,Also had to give up swimming.Even a trans doesn't go thru this they just get the "fun part" of womanhood,

[@monalee7687]

@@anneloving8405 I have also always been anemic because of my super heavy and frequent periods (about 22 day cycle). 17 day cycle sounds terrible 😢. May I ask how old you are? Mine used to last a week too but I’m in my 30s now and I get them for 3-4 days. Maybe that will happen for you eventually too.

[@htpeck91]

I had no intention of watching this entire video but I could not tear myself away. Coleman, you are a national treasure. Your grace and intellect are so vital to the social platform of the US. I never thought the ridiculous thuggery would go on for so long. Kathleen, I am very sorry for what happen to your career as a professor, but maybe there was a reason. I admire you and completely agree with you on every point. You both inspire me.

[@mounteverestoftheobvious1182]

Like heroes, "national treasures" come pretty cheap these days. In all likelihood, you'll instantly assume that I'm opposed to Hughes -- which is a breach in the very basis upon which you put these people on a pedestal. All I said was "'national treasures' come pretty cheap these days" --- but rather than consider that, you wanna dig in to defend. And by the way, have you ever dealt with any of these people one-on-one? I have. Glenn Loury once called my writing "brilliant" and was "blown away" by my site and signed up. But he wasn't too keen on the truth when I took his hero to task. Funny how that works. These purveyors of virtue sit on their high horse trying to reach the irrational who behave stupidly to protect their shortsighted interests. But the second they're challenged (or anyone in their community), they turn on a dime to change the rules (instantly abandoning their precious "principles" to protect their shortsighted interests while behaving stupidly). Repeatedly rehashing issues is not the mark of problem solving - it’s the mark of a market. These people are not "brilliant" and they haven't made a dent in the issues they incessantly talk about. In fact, they're making matters worse -- but they can change all that by broadening the debate. "How so?" -- I hope you ask. To get the answer, you're gonna have to put some time & effort in. But who wants to work our way to solutions when it's so much easier to endlessly complain about problems? Here's your chance to stand apart: ***************** Work is a journey on which you welcome challenge. Work does not instantly respond - work digs to discover and inquires to clarify. Work is difficult and demands discernment. Work wonders, pauses, listens, absorbs, and reflects. Work does not rest on who’s right and who’s wrong: Work wants to know if there’s something more to see, something to learn, something that sharpens the mind. Work never stops building on the foundation of your own work and what you learn from the work of others. Work works its way through material that is not easy. Work recognizes complexity and the demands of in-depth explanation. Work will go on a trip to ideas that take time and effort to understand. Work knows that you can’t see a solution without understanding the different dimensions of a problem. Work does not defend before you consider. Work does not race to conclusions - work arrives at them through careful consideration. Work is willing is rethink what you think you know. Work takes integrity, courtesy, curiosity, courage, and decency. Work comes with the willingness to be wrong. Work is not self-satisfied. Work does not sling snippets of certitude - work crafts argument on the merits. Work is an exchange where each party takes information into account. Work does not issue childish insults - work demands that you act your age. Work respects your intelligence by using it - and shows respect to others as we work our way to mutual respect. Work won’t be pretty and might even get ugly - but work will do what it takes to work it out. And if you wanna start solving problems - work is what it’s gonna take. Speaking of work: I’m looking for fiercely independent thinkers for an idea that could turn the tide. If you’re not interested in hearing me out and having meaningful conversation - we have nothing to talk about and I wish you well. Please contact me through the site or DM on Twitter - as I no longer respond to Tweets or superficial fragments of any kind. You can find the site in the description to this link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmXLfpmQm7NrjaM OR You can go to “OneVoiceBecameTwo” dot life (same as wordpress.com) to find “Do You Want to Solve Problems or Protest About Them?” Thank you! . . .

[@donnastrom9640]

I have been thinking along these lines for several months. As valuable as open and honest dialogue is, in and of itself it doesn’t appear to be sufficient to bring about actual change. I want to believe that we are simply working our way through Phase One. Time and patience are the greatest warriors (Tolstoy).

[@sueinraleigh3091]

I refuse to live in someone else’s delusion. I’m so sorry Ms Stokk has had her life and livelihood turned upside down for having to courage of her convictions.

[@Anna-vl4ju]

A brave, intelligent, articulate woman. So glad people like her are speaking out

[@skaughtsman]

Consider this: The Emperor's New Clothes was written precisely for issues like this this. At some point, we need to set aside personal or ideological considerations, and just allow objectivity to define law and public institutions.

[@geeksanonymous]

🎯

[@Jenny-nz8fb]

@ Scott Henderson - 100% agreed.

[@samueloconner1482]

I agree. We must get rid of all these vaguely worded anti-trans laws, and govern based on objective fact. The conservative lawmakers in this country must be stopped so that we can live in a rational and objective society, and one that is able to not just define terms like man and woman but is able to understand what they mean.

[@jeannahayescook9375]

@@samueloconner1482 This thread clearly understands objective facts. You apparently do not. Stay out of our spaces dude.

[@samueloconner1482]

@@jeannahayescook9375 i will leave your spaces when you stop trying to make the world a worse place

[@lillianbrooks7148]

Thank you Kathleen for articulating what some of us have trouble doing because of fear of being called all kinds of negative names. I was involved in the 60's when women were screaming for equal rights. We worked so hard on that and now others are hoping onboard by proclaiming that they are women too. I have trouble wrapping my brain around that as a feminist.

[@serpentines6356]

At times I have tried to wrap my mind around it, and then I don't try because I know this insanity is a total attack on simply acknowledging the truth of our human, s3xual biological reality. It doesn't matter to certain people if it doesn't make sense. Don't worry about being called negative names. Negative name calling means nothing to me, since they are bs. I am not a "fascist", "bigot", "nazi", "transphobe", etc., so someone can throw that out there all they want. "Bounces off of me and sticks to you" kind of thing. Hearing the same slurs shouted over and over thousands of times, really helps to make them sound meaningless too. 😂 Remember, throwing a slur out at you for simply stating a biological truth like, "Men are not women" takes no brain power at all. Two people making an effort to have a decent conversation together, that don't agree with each other, is at least an effort.

[@angelagreen242]

That was great, thank you. Kathleen Stock is a very reasonable, thoughtful person, I’m sure she was a brilliant lecturer and it’s a huge loss to academia that she was forced out in such an outrageous manner. It’s only touched on in this interview, but she was bullied and threatened and the aggressors should have been thrown out of university.

[@RenegadeContext]

Any person guilt tripping someone into sex is using coercion. It doesn't matter how they identify that is wrong and hopefully illegal at this point. It's so fucked up

[@samueloconner1482]

Its a good thing everybody agrees then!

[@missygoldstein12]

Re. Social contagion one girl in my 4th grade class got glasses. Even though at the time glasses were NOT even considered cool or trendy I myself liked the way they looked and was secretly envious of the attention I told my parents about my blurred vision and they took me to an eye doctor who I kept up the lie to and kept this charade going until the doctor gently told my parents my eyes were fine and they asked if anyone in class had gotten glasses. This was just ONE person. Social contagion is a thing

[@DirtyLifeLove]

My wife purposely stared at a bright flashlight day after day until she got glasses like her "cool" daddy

[@plantsntrance5513]

I remember being a child and pretending to see blurry so i can get glasses!! 😮 Memory unlocked for me.

[@saistrology]

Your example isn't social contingent. Bulimia in young Chinese girls spreading rampantly after a Chinese journalist published an article about the chronic problem in the US and a Chinese student shared the article at her school, THAT'S social contingency at work. What you experienced is called being a copycat. Nothing more.

[@missygoldstein12]

@@saistrology Influence is influence.

[@Mrs.Stone99]

People pretending they dont know about this phenomenon that teenagers, especially girls, are susceptible to, drives me crazy! Everyone knows it happens. Why would parents care about who their children hung around if it wasn't such a potent and common issue.

[@hendrixisgod777]

I feel sorry for Stock. She is quite clearly still upset by what she had to go through. The feelings are still raw.

[@KH-aug]

My read is that she's making clear that it was indefensible that she or anyone in her position should have been treated as she was. She seems to appreciate much about her work life now.

[@serpentines6356]

@@KH-aug The fact that so many people in stations of authority, in Academia, corporate, etc. are such cowards, and either encourage this nonsense, or don't stand up against it, is pathetic, and frightening really.

[@jaijai5250]

@@serpentines6356 that’s further evidence that this ridiculous agenda, and ideology is being driven by extremely powerful, wealthy people. These people clearly have control and authority over governments and legislators.

[@serpentines6356]

@@jaijai5250 Yeah. The agenda is a "transgender, transhumanism" agenda, and it's quite sick. Big money (wealthy "trans women" and others) is fueling this, but why so many people just go along I do not get it.

[@slacktoryrecords4193]

Kathleen Stock is amazing! Awesome ‘get’ for you and your show. Her writing is dryly hilarious and splendid, and she’s one of a handful of really clear, brilliant thinkers on the gender/trans issue. Up there with Helen Joyce.

[@crumblyduckling403]

@@doubtingthomas136 There is no debate; womanhood is not something that can be granted. It's not a commodity to be bartered. Argue that manhood can be granted to women if you wish to be consistent. Then tell the women in countries with self-ID who've been hounded out of public life that the decrease in their safety is merely a matter of statistics.

[@KH-aug]

@DoubtingThomas All you seem to be saying here is that you yourself are ignorant of the data. Please educate yourself about crime rates for domestic violence and paraphilias. Self-ID is beginning to obscure the numbers, but they're still significant enough.

[@SuperLchilds]

@DoubtingThomas Do your research the statistics are there-Men are dangerous to women in society at large, even more so in our private spaces-Any male sexual predator can self ID!

[@jujutrini8412]

@DoubtingThomas How long have these countries been doing this? Has there been enough time to collect data on this? Has data been collected and reported upon?

[@Madonnalitta1]

​@DoubtingThomas you cannot "grant" womanhood. The suggestion is bizarre and nonsensical. Could you grant me manhood, or childhood? How about alienhood?!

[@rosshowarth3266]

I love this smart woman. She seems really sweet too. Often take time to listen to her and am grateful she's on a greater public stage now.

[@cooperwesley1536]

It's important for straights to understand that A LOT of preteens their same-sex attraction with being "trapped in the wrong body." I went through this for a yr or two as a 10 yr old, and so did most of my gay and lesbian friends. We grew up and in the 1970s and 1980s... and all of us eventually became comfortably gay, lesbian, or bi. DO NOT EVER confuse childhood gender confusion and experimentation with authentic dysphoria requiring hormones and surgery.

[@scotlandtheinsane3359]

Stop speaking for others other than yourself and your friends. It actually isn’t ‘normal’ to think that because you’re gay you must be in the wrong body. Get fkd!

[@jujutrini8412]

I don’t even think it’s just gay, lesbian or bi people who have a feeling of being “trapped in the wrong body” at around that age. Puberty can be EXTREMELY traumatic for some children. Many of my friends in a same sex school went through hell - self harming, anorexia, bulimia, mental health difficulties all starting around that age! I think society needs to study this age group of children and find out how to make things better.

[@jujutrini8412]

@@scotlandtheinsane3359 ?

[@scotlandtheinsane3359]

@@jujutrini8412 haha misread you, apologies!

[@jujutrini8412]

@@scotlandtheinsane3359 That’s ok. ✌️

[@annarocha3254]

My husband just introduced me to your work, Coleman. I appreciate your deliberate manner of discussion and your thoughtfulness on issues that evoke such strong emotions from all sides.

[@kelly-kx2io]

I transitioned and completed my SRS years before any of my nieces & nephew were born. It was not something I felt I needed to speak to them about. For me it had been a personal mind and body mismatch issue that i had fixed then moved on with my life as if issue had never existed. As my nieces were growing up I had a strong feeling that one of my nieces was going to grow up to be lesbian. I never mentioned it to anyone. Fast forward 25 years or so my niece had grown up and come out as lesbian. By this time she knew i was transsexual but we had still not had a conversation about it. Then one day she told me that she knew that she had figured it out a good few years ago after seeing some old pictures of me as a child growing up at my mums house. She then said had I of not been her auntie and had she been 10 years younger she could of easily of gotten caught up in to the idea of being trans and needing to transition to be happy with all this socalled transawaerness. She said in a perfect world I would of been born male but am not am a butch lesbian and I accept that. I then told her I had realized that she was going to grow up to be lesbian when she was young. She asked me why did you not tell me. I said it was up to you to discover that for yourself and not for me to be putting ideas in to your head. I said I would of been there for you had you needed to confide in someone. Many of todays transfolk are too quick to encourage others to take the same path. I feel stuck in the middle and hated from both sides. People need to look at the bigger picture & dissect it into the relevant boxes. Then look and see which are the ones the most visible/vocal and making the most noise and crazy demands while stamping their feet and branding folk transphobic just to shut down any sensible conversation. . Then take note how much they commit to being what they claim to be. Here is my take on all this madness. I am an old school Post-Op Transsexual who is closing on 4 decades Post-Op. This is utter madness at its best ! It's gone from transsexuals fixing a personal mind and body mismatch issue with one's self and then getting on with our lives unnoticed as best we can. To folk now who do not want to make any effort to be what they claim to be who actually thrive on the attention and privileges it grants them under the term transgender with all these new woke laws etc. Many are out to make others around them change their perceptions of what a woman is or fall foul of the woke policing. It is lunacy at its best. I get labelled at TERF quite often because I will not side with these folks and their crazy demands and expectations. Transsexuals should not even be lumped under the term transgender as far as I am concerned. It's not even in the same postcode. I find all this very demeaning of all I went through and suffered growing up in the 1970's and early 1980s to be happy within my own skin.They tried to force me to change who I was back in 1977 when I was only 13 here. county asylums stanley-royd wakefield . They could not force me to change who I was or deter me and that taught me that it would be just as wrong to try to force people to understand or accept me too. My intentions and actions back then were to change myself so I could be happy within my own skin, not to force the world around me to change or pay the price. There are different definitions of the word TRANSGENDER , The most prevalent is those who are political in nature and refers to anyone who considers themselves as different in terms of sex or gender. Most transsexual persons refuse to be lumped in with the TG Community, but others like non-op TG persons see political value in working together. A transgender person is someone who deliberately lives in a way opposed to their physical sex. For example, if a person is born with female genitalia and wants to keep it, but expresses and feels that they are a boy mentally, then they are transgender. Transsexual and transgender is not the same thing as transsexual is only applicable to those born with a need to correct their genitals as best they can, while most transgender people desire to keep their original genitalia. A person is born with transsexualism,the whole idea of the surgery is to stop having transsexualism and to get on with life as if they never had the condition. For me and many of my old friends it was important to fix our mind and body mismatch ASAP and then get on with our lives. Often going stealth and only letting those who need to know about our past know. The term transgender covers a wide spectrum of different folks. Most of whom are more vocal/visible. Hence more well known by the public online and offline as they tend to go out of their way to make their presence known and felt. Whereas many of us old school transsexual's the aim was to fix the issue and move on with our lives unnoticed. Many of us had to make big sacrifices like losing family members and old friends and moving to avoid publicity at times. As that for us would defeat the whole object of fixing the issues we had with ourselves in the 1st place. For us it is not a badge we wear. Just a distant unhappy memory we rather leave behind us and not dwell on. This leads to our side of the story being less heard by the public, leaving them to assume the outspoken ones most often seen kicking off on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram & KZbin etc are what its all about for all under the umbrella term transgender. Which is not the case at all. There are many of us out there in the world that can hold conversations with folk who disagree with us without resorting to branding them transphobic or getting catty and bitchy. It's a shame so many of these outspoken trans folks will brand someone transphobic at the drop of a hat yet forget it took themselves years to understand and accept their own situation. Bit hypocritical if you ask me. But hey that's what happens when what it is to be transsexual gets hijacked and turned into a trans radical agenda/movement. It's now become a money spinner for many. It's like reality TV with a large helping of soap opera thrown in for good measure. Fed to an ever growing gullible audience grasping at straws. They have only gotten away with it for so long because transsexuals tend to avoid outing themselves as it defeats the object of fixing the mind and body mismatch in the 1st place if you're going to and broadcast that you did it. I'm older now and my husband has passed away. I have nothing to lose and someone needs to speak up for the genuine transsexuals and point out the difference that the transgender agenda has tried to blur. I did my SRS in the beginning of the1980s then I just got on with my life with my late husband after my surgery. So was quite shocked when after my husband sudden death 31 years later and I went searching for a Post-op Transsexual widows support group and only found the embarrassing radical transgender agenda movement crap online that only serves to make a mockery of what it is to be Transsexual and trample all over women right as if they don't even matter. Many of today's trans folk are a breed unto themselves who lack empathy for women and women's rights. I find all this shameful, embarrassing and hurtful. My advice to anyone who is planning to come out as trans, is to invest in some big girl knickers 1st and stop trampling all over women's rights. On a side note I was amongst one of the 1st to be legally allowed to apply from my gender recognition certificate. As it was offered to those of us who were over 7 year Post-Op or longer 1st to clear the backlog of those of us who had been waiting decades for that day to come. I looked into it and decided I did not need to get mine. Since then the requirements needed to apply for the gender recognition certificate have changed drastically to include non-op so basically anyone who decided they wish to identify as female. So for me it's now not even worth the paper it's printed on and is demeaning of all I suffered growing up in the 60s 70s & 80s to be happy within my own skin. Of course women have reasons to be concerned about this. Even I do not feel safe around many of today's folks claiming to be trans. It covers such a wide spectrum of weird and wonderful people, many of whom do not have womens best interests at heart.

[@sabymoon]

I think what we need is a complex discussion about this issue and not a stamped-out "Only Two Sexes Because God Made us That Way". College kids deserve and in-depth exploration. I think this issue has been blown way out of proportion or everyone is just stupid and shallow minded. Kids should be allowed to be as masculine or feminine as they wish. I'm a cis woman, a feminist, and disgusted at the commercialization of humanity. It's a racket! A damn waste of money. Always manipulating people to buy more so they can be OK. BS. I went to high school in the 1960s and we were taught about fascism. Fascism bans books. Discussions that are open and not in the service of condemning individuals (sending gay kids to hell) should be the model.

[@mirariri98]

I read it all and all I can say is thanks for educating people without the cattiness. I can’t tell people to know their place but sometimes it’s just that. Why try to bully everyone into some radical change when I’m guessing people were threading on the path of acceptance. Now it’s word Olympics, glad there are people like you.

[@kelly-kx2io]

@@mirariri98 Thank you for taking the time to read my comment & reply. The idea all those years ago was to blend and not offend but that as been turned upside down by the trans radical activists. They are out to try and change people's perceptions of what a woman is. And there was me thinking a woman was the opposite to a man & so much more that I could not experience given I was born a biological boy. As an old-school Post-Op Transsexual I do not deny I was born male. I transitioned in my teens & completed my SRS almost 4 decades ago. It alleviated my gender dysphoria & I am now happier within my own body. It was a personal mind & body mismatch issue that I needed to fix ASAP. I did it for me, not the approval of others or try to force them to accept and understand something they can not. It's a bonus if folk accept me but it's not a requirement.

[@pointofthisbeing]

It's infuriating, ain't it? Old pattern of a good intention reaction to right wing target seeking, mixed with new perpetual information purity testing of the internet, leading to something inscrutable. Can't say there aren't bad actors on both sides: profit-seeking medicine, hatred of difference, children blamelessly enjoying power over adults, rushes to condemn at a whiff of ideological difference. Tiny, tiny portion of a populace used as a wedge to affirm or deny traditions all over the place. Seems like society reaches a point of conundrum and, rather than attempting a different approach, just bashes its head into a wall until collapse. (It's capitalism--hierarchical economics. Gotta go through it.)

[@TheRealPunkachu]

Before reading your full comment let me just say that the statement "I feel stuck in the middle and hated from both sides." is becoming much too common in today's world. Lots of love. Edit: Read the whole thing. I disagree with some of your points but a youtube comments section is not the place to get into it, so just hope you have a nice day.

[@robertjkershaw]

I read Material Girls: Why Reality Matters for Feminism almost a year ago now after ordering it from the UK. It is essential reading. It's shameful and sadly telling that Kathleen and her book are not more well known and widely read here in the US.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Right! Mein Kampf is neglected as well.

[@ambientjohnny]

@@highroller-jq3ix "Trans" ideology essentially espouses a form of eugenics. That's probably why you lot are obsessed with levelling baseless accusations at people who reject your regressive and sexist ideology.

[@22Unlucky]

It's such a pity.

[@SuzLa1]

I think feminism means something different in USA than Europe, as in Europe it only means fighting abuse and subjugation of women. Such as women didn't have as many rights and were less represented in their own country. It wasn't until recently women had the right to not be raped by her husband. In USA it seems to be an insult by men who hate women, who spend their time searching out examples of idiots who talk nonsense to say all women who fight against abuse are like that. Funny how they spend too much time online whinging against women, filling comment sections no matter what the subject as an excuse to whine on against feminists and saying what women should want, but no woman finds an abusive misogynist who feels threatened by women who have rights against them to be a turn on. I also think men and women dislike each other more in the USA than Europe, as USA women tell men they're disgusting if not cir'cised and some men who had that done develop issues, such as less sensitivity, which they spend a lot of time online trying to take out on women. Like the USA man who was banned from entering Europe for making web pages promoting men rpe and abuse women when travelling. Although I also acknowledge men from many places who have had injunctions taken out on them by women offline, then use the internet to carry on being abusive.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@SuzLa1 Some great observations, but one of the new abuses of the concept of feminism is to use the label as a justification for transphobic propaganda. This is prominent across the anglophone west.

[@christenpotvin]

She’s wonderful! Thank you for having her on. I’ve been waiting for someone to speak on this issue in an intellectual rather than rhetorical manner. I found this conversation so refreshing 😊

[@kcsunshine4008]

Both Coleman and Kathleen are so respectful and intelligent in their discussion. Thank you for the opportunity to hear it.

[@pradipamahadeva8051]

WTF! Western Society is soooo screwed. This WOMAN is fabulous 👌

[@SongMangosteen]

It's not just Western Society, this stuff is also creeping into Asia. For example, the trans agenda is growing in India (as if the women there don't already have enough to deal with!). Recently, here in Hong Kong, a woman (transman) tried to sue the government for the right to change the sex on her ID to male. She won. However, just days ago, the High Court overruled this... so common sense prevails (let's hope it remains so).

[@glennhagg2439]

What an amazing woman! Homosexuality is a fact, not an identity.

[@LanaW123]

Noone cares about what ppl do in their bedroom

[@markmacpherson90]

Facts

[@blackgateboxingxuanmenquan6407]

Specifically, it’s an action, not an identity. A behavior. A habit.

[@Berryations]

Huh?? It’s not really a fact

[@THXx1138]

Homosexuality is a sexual perversion.

[@TheNesbittExperience]

I found you through Kathleen Stock. I’ve been binge watching her, along with Dr Helen Joyce. I’ve been waiting for this conversation to hit America. Thank you for having her on! New sub!

[@mujy12]

Me too

[@robinwatkins8528]

I am now officially in love with Kathleen Stock. 😄

[@suedavis1781]

Brilliant podcast. I'm a new subscriber to "Conversations with Coleman". As a lesbian, I appreciate that the discussants brought all the essential issues to light: reality and fiction of sex difference, present day social contagion compared with "old school" transgender, mental illness plaguing young girls and boys, parental agony about transitioning, and the expressed - but not named - atmosphere of misogyny. Thank you.

[@guarichapicante]

What a great conversation. I love how you conduct the interview . It was a delight to listen to. It is so refreshing to hear people who are aligned with this sensible way of going about this issue , express about it in this manner. We need more of this . Thank you

[@LowellBDennyIII]

I'll write what I keep hammering on and on about in every venue. According to the recent Pew Polls on this issue, most people in the US support full civil rights for trans people. As that percentage inches up, so has the percentage of those polled who maintain that sex is set at birth and cannot be changed. What would you do with these statistics? What so-called "trans activists" do is revealing. They demonstrate that they aren't organizers. An organizer would take these statistics, organize, and win tangible benefits for the people they're organizing for. But instead, that high percentage of supporters of trans rights are called TERFS. As a gay man, I've seen similar. Gay men who won't hook up with trans men on the gay apps are deemed TERFS and BIGOTS. Some of us are having to fight all over again what HOMOSEXUALITY means, and this is bizarre.

[@talonr7818]

Last night, I saw some screenshots that a man shared on the tweet app and was horrified by the vile names TIFs were calling gay men. This is so regressive. It's also ineffective because it doesn't change the reality of what being a gay man means. And some TIM "transbians" are saying the same things about lesbians. These people are delusional. But most people are unaware this is happening or they give Ts the highest priority.

[@queenofspiders]

Literally this! I am best friends with a gay male. I don’t understand how he could be called a hateful transphobe if he wasn’t attracted to a trans “male” (biological female)? And I’ve tried to explain my point to trans-activists online but it falls on deaf ears. Not really sure what’s going to happen with all this as we are literally having to redefine everything! It’s absolutely insane and I’m so glad there are people like the two in this discussion that can be caring/compassionate while also being logical!

[@rialimpe]

Such cool discussion. You two are obviously very graceful communicators. Professor Stock is a brave woman to face the angry mob.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Where does the bravery come in? How is it brave to be a transphobic hate-monger?

[@rialimpe]

​@@highroller-jq3ix She's a homosexual. Homosexuals are a group who were put in jail because they want to have relationships with other homosexuals. They have a right to have their words which define them and their spaces. They have a right to disagree with TRAs trying to redefine the words homosexuals, gay and lesbian to include non same-sex relationships. Homosexuals defending their rights is not transphobia, nor hate. LGB has nothing to do with T.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@rialimpe Yes, gay bigots have the right to be bigots just as homophobes have the right to be homophobes. The transphobic hatred of a particular demographic doesn't make their hateful malice any less hateful or hypocritical.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

@@rialimpe I'm still wondering where the "bravery" comes into this particular display of transphobic ignorance.

[@rialimpe]

​@@highroller-jq3ix There's no hate, there's just reality. Biological sex is real. Same-sex attraction is real. You can be mad about it, you can change laws, you can call people transphobic and bigot, it's not gonna change nature. It's not gonna make same sex attracted people become attracted to the opposite sex, no matter how they identify. The bravery come from homosexuals defending their homosexuality, when they've been persecuted for that for thousands of years. I don't argue with mentally ill people or homophobes, so this convo ends here.

[@dawn5227]

Its good you had this conversation with Kathleen, shes an intelligent woman with much to say that is logical and really worth listening to. I find myself as someone who wholeheartedly agrees with her. As a british heterosexual woman on the left she pretty much sums up my values and if anyone just took the time to talk and listen to her she is just a very normal, comprehensive rational thinking person. There are very few like her I can wholeheartedly agree with. So its great to hear her speak.

[@rubyruby6358]

Thank you so much for introducing me to this wonderful, brilliant woman. You gained a new sub! I'm thrilled to hear she has teamed up with Bari Weiss and the new Austin University. I appreciate hearing all sides to an issue and look forward to reading her book and Unheard writings.

[@Jan-iv7kh]

Thank you so much for this fair exposure of Kathleen Stock. I've subscribed to your channel, it's so hard to find truly open commentators.

[@marcellamcclure4915]

Love DocStockk's cool, thoughtful style. Her knowledge of and sensitivity to the trans influence in our lives is spot on. One of the top thinkers in the UK today.

[@teejarado5543]

Thanks for exposing the ideas and story of Kathleen Stock. Even though I'm very familiar and impressed with her work I found the interview informative and important. The US is behind the UK on the trans nightmare but with more exposure to people like her (Helen Joyce, Maya Forstater, Dr. Michael Biggs, et. al.) we can close the gap sooner rather than later.

[@highroller-jq3ix]

Actually, the US is way ahead of the UK on theofascist transphobic hate-mongering.

[@serpentines6356]

Also, check out Ayaan Hirsi Ali, "The Market for Victimhood", on KZbin, and "When the West Abandoned Women". "The Glinner Report", "Realitys last stand" are also good.

[@claudiastokes6485]

When I was little, for a little while I wished I was a boy. Not that I didn't like being a girl, but they had so much more freedom and respect. Kids wish lots of things that they outgrow. The fact that children are being given sex change operations makes my head explode. If children cannot consent to sex, cannot vote or drink, how could they possibly decide something like that ?

[@Raven_Fable]

Less than one percent, of less than one percent, actually reaches this stage.

[@alexbennet4195]

@@Raven_Fablehave you not heard about what happened at the Tavistock clinic?

[@Raven_Fable]

@@alexbennet4195 no I haven't why

[@alexbennet4195]

@@Raven_Fable there was a scandal after it came out that (young) children (who often had a whole host of mental issues) were being pushed into taking various (often underresearched and low-key experimental) drug without proper psychological evaluations.

[@annamariposa6959]

@@Raven_Fablehow many girls cut off their breasts? At the age of 12? Even 1 is too many

[@susanstandard8727]

This woman really knows of what she speaks. Why is this not popping up all over the internet. The families and young adults in the trans community need this as required viewing!

[@katedean6258]

Professor Stock. So calm, so articulate, so entertaining. Love ❤

[@rigilchrist]

I have read (and I recommend) Stock's book "material girls". I live near Brighton and so I saw first-hand the graffiti demonising her. Just as in the case of the writings of JK Rowling, the complaints about her were not based in reality but were the consequence of misrepresentations by activists on social media. In situations such as we are living in, we desperately need philosophers - thinkers like Stock. Social media is utterly deranging - most people taking offense are not doing so for themselves: rather, they are signalling their virtue by being offended on behalf of imagined victims. The feeding of destructive ideas to young, vulnerable, impressionable minds is the real crime today. As others have observed, none of this would matter if the adults and those in authority were to ignore it. Transgender used to mean someone who suffering from gender dysphoria, where "gender" meant sex. Such a person (and I used to work with one) suffers terribly. In my friend's case, he had years of painful surgery to resemble (so far as is currently possible) a person of the opposite sex. This is obviously not the same thing at all as a transgender person, where gender is merely performative. Advocates of this gender recognition reform, conflate the two meanings of gender. Thus, a large, bearded man with a penis can change his performative gender (and now, his sex!) by simply filling in a form and changing his pronouns. There is more to a woman than a pronoun.

[@KH-aug]

It's sad that your friend experienced so much mental illness and chose -- and was allowed -- to undergo cosmetic medicalization. If he nonetheless wanted to respect girls and women, he would need to continue to stay out of their single-sex spaces, and never demand or expect to receive female pronoun attribution, whatever his wishes. I hope he's feeling and doing better now. ...I'm sorry to say, but men with paraphilias are at least as likely, statistically, to commit any of various types of sex-related crime as non-trans-identified men.

[@rigilchrist]

@@KH-aug He was a middle-aged man, who had lived in dysphoric distress all his adult life. He is certainly happier now, living as a woman and accepted by most. I think that there is a very considerable difference between someone like him who had years of surgeries and possesses no male genitalia; and a bearded bloke with a penis and a wig, who opportunistically wishes to enact the performance of a woman (often a ghastly parody). I would expect the former not to present any risk to women (certainly I have never read of any incidents); whereas the latter are often autogynephilic and/or abusive and should never have access to female spaces or act ivies.

[@KH-aug]

@@rigilchrist As we learn more about various kinds of mental illness and neurodivergence, especially ASD and ADHD, we're also deepening our understanding of their interconnectedness. It's now thought that far more than half of trans-identifiers are neurodivergent, and many more have unresolved trauma in their past or internalized homophobia or sexism. Because developing a dependency on opposite-sex hormones has a number of serious health risks, it would be better if any underlying challenges had been addressed therapeutically first. Nowadays this is more possible -- or would be, but for the trans lobby's efforts to undermine such therapy. That said, sex-related OCD's are among the most challenging to resolve, and some specialists now say the best that many sufferers can hope for is careful management of their condition, the way paedophiles do. Attempting woman-face is one way to do it, but there are others. In the end though, if he wants to behave ethically when he's out and about, he still needs to respect the dignity and human rights of girls and women by staying out of their female-only spaces. This likely means choosing venues with single user facilities as much as possible.

[@rigilchrist]

@@KH-aug You are leaning on an open door with me concerning children. However in this case, we are speaking of an adult who had a great deal of psychological help before embarking on transitioning. This was way before the current social contagion of ideas concerning trans. (S)he has been stably living as a woman with a man for years.

[@davidlohrey4793]

This is a marvelous conversation. We are all so lucky to be exposed to such a high level of decency and intelligence. Bravo to you both!

[@ojyochan]

These two are both so reasonable on this topic! Loved to see this conversation♡

[@The88Cheat]

Hughes is one of my favorite young thinkers.

[@carolphillips682]

Kathleen you have total common sense and I as a woman support what you say and the way you say it. Your dignified way of being is beautiful. Please carry on and I am happy to contribute to your community cause.

[@RaefonB]

I've watched quite a few KZbin interviews with Professor Stock over the years but this is the one where I felt I had the best, in-depth understanding of her stance on the trans issue. Thanks Coleman, you did a great job of keeping things compassionate, accessible and rational.

[@amberhamer8572]

I really admire this whole conversation. I think it’s thought through. Healthy, and fair.. I think this woman is brave and has a good head on her shoulder. Thank you for this 🌺

[@tellemanndergaertner]

This is such an excellent conversation, more people ought to hear this.

[@DEWwords]

She is most acute. Thank you for hosting her.

[@racs9606]

Did you mean astute?

[@jzkramer]

@@racs9606 or cute?

[@Kathykatz27]

I am a woman, I love being a woman. A man is not a woman. A man cannot feel our make up or feel our struggle. A man can be transgender, gay, zim zen zoo zah. But stay out of my bathroom (you don't know what I've experienced or who i trust) , a drag queen out of my primary school and stop telling little children who's brain has not formed they have no gender. So sick of this. I thought I did not care and thought "to each their own" but this crap has broken me. These extremists are making trans peoples lives harder than it was already.

[@random_person6041]

Preach!🙌

[@MPD_dogmom]

👏🏽

[@samueloconner1482]

Did you know that there is no evidence of an increase in sexual violence when trans women are allowed into womens spaces (Bathrooms/prisons/etc.) However there is an increase in sexual violence against trans women when they are forced into mens spaces. Why are you pro rape?

[@Diamondsparkle788]

​@@samueloconner1482 They tried to put a rapist in woman's prison and that Bloke Karen White raped women. So there is evidence

[@samueloconner1482]

@@Diamondsparkle788 first of all, are you saying this person raped women and then got put into prison or she raped a person in prison? If its the former that would be totally irrelevant. If its the latter then its almost totally irrelevant as 1 person doing a shitty thing is not evidence of a broader problem. Lesbians have raped women in prison before, should we ban them from women's prisons? Straight women have raped other women in prison. should we ban all women from prison? Or put every single prisoner in solitary confinement? Obviously not. you need to hsve evidence if a broader pattern of behavior before making decisons like that. If you really carevabout rape happening in prisons a) you don'twant trans women in men's prisons. And b) you should address the actual problem of prison guards taping inmates.

[@Larubia90631]

God bless Kathleen Stock. This is my introduction to her and her story. Thank you, Coleman Hughes. We need Kathleen to do more interviews over here in the US.

[@dreimalnein22]

I think Coleman was in the UK taping this.

[@alleycatpinkcat3841]

Amazing Woman Kathleen .....you're so admired ,never forget that.

[@DLH.23]

By activist standards, any male can enter a women's space at any time, for any reason, because they "feel" like it. These are people that are incredibly hostile towards women in the name of inclusivity. I am amazed that any woman would support it, but I think many people simply haven't thought through all the implications of it.

[@samueloconner1482]

Dis you know that there is zero evidence to suggest that allowing trans women into womens spaces increases the rates of sexual asdult or rape in those spaces, but that forcing them into mens spaces does increase sexual assault snd rape of trans women. Just thought you should know

[@crumblyduckling403]

@@samueloconner1482 And did you know that men assaulting men-in-dresses in men's spaces is a men problem, whilst allowing men-in-dresses into women's spaces means there ARE no women's spaces any more?

[@samueloconner1482]

@@crumblyduckling403 yeah that sounds right, however I'm not sure what that has to do with the conversation. I was talking about trans women not men in dresses

[@y2ksurvivor]

​@@samueloconner1482lol the word games you play.

[@samueloconner1482]

@@y2ksurvivor you guys are the ones playing word games. I'm just describing the world as it actually is. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

[@jemmarowley3442]

My son didnt want his hair cut from the age of 4 to 10. He had super long, blond hair. Multiple people asked me if he was trans gender, while me(his mum) was standing next to him with short hair. Sometimes things don't need labels! Let kids be kids and explore their style and likes!

[@ambientjohnny]

Shows you how utterly superficial people are and desperate to label things according to fads.

[@aabracadavra]

@@ambientjohnny Ironically it also shows how conservative and regressive the liberals have become.

[@luckystarship2275]

Great talk, informative & intelligent. Kathleen Stock is brilliant.

[@susancoughlin222]

Once again, a riveting interview. Women should not back down on this, and those that do, don't understand the issue. Once again, men are trying to dominate over women. It's really sad that women can't see this. Why do women always concede, it's a sign of weakness.

[@DieFlabbergast]

SOME men. Judging by KZbin, there are just as many men speaking out against this "trans" lunacy as there are women. Most men have a mother, a sister, a wife, a daughter, or a granddaughter. This is OUR fight, too.

[@minuishaq631]

They can see it they are just too afraid to tell the truth

[@GXObserver]

Don’t just blame men. It’s SOME men - enthusiastically supported by many women.

[@TheSapphire51]

​@@GXObserver yes I agree with your observation and despair of the stupidity and blindness of many of my own sex.

[@GXObserver]

@@TheSapphire51 Appreciate the support. Thank you. 🙂

[@MarcoBotelhodeSousa]

Great interview. Lovely lady with the most clear and sane view about the issues discussed i have ever seen so far. I could not agree more with her. Note I: I am a male, born a male, identifying as a male, with a male name and a male posture. In other words, I am an original and complete man, nothing added, nothing taken out. These woke people are transforming a quite serious issue in a circus performance, and a damaging one as it is, which is something I utterly detest, given the fact it is damaging for everyone, incredibly irritating and reduces a a quite serious, more than usual dramatic and definitely a real issue to a simple fad, and an obsessive one. The fact is that when push comes to shove, and it will, the damages will be greater than the recovery capacity. Note II: I am getting my dragon skin shield out to defend myself from a - most probable - public flaming, provided i don't get banned from youtube before, because of the contents and unpopular nature of my comment. Cheers.

[@aimansfield4]

I’m glad I clicked on this. Never heard of either people but now I’m going to buy her book. Thank you ❤

[@debbielondon1809]

Kathleen: feels to me like so much anger and sadness are being repressed here. A woman of such deep kindness and intelligence. I'm glad you've got a niche.

[@AnneliedeWet]

None of us expected this vicious mob from the dark ages in our midst to come for us.

[@alexiabenac391]

When my sister was 5 she said, she would be a dad when she grow up. We played like that: i was the mom and she was the dad. Now we are two very stable hetero wemen and everything is fine. Thank God our Mom didn't make a tragedy out of our Kids-Play-Fiction! ❤ Thank you for the very important words 🦋

[@martinda7446]

I could feel the pain in her voice. There's not much more destructive to the soul than injustice. Kathleen, I am sending you my thoughts through the ether. And stuff preferred pronouns, they are the thin end of the wedge. I prefer not to use any but those I see apply. We have gone way past the, 'be nice' phase. PS. Thanks Coleman, that was very enlightening and entertaining. Subscribed. Only have one minor criticism, if you invite a mind on like Kathleen Stock to share what's in it with us, you should give her the last thought. I think that is customary, good manners aaand, even though you are a wise man for sure, I would have liked to hear what her summing up was.

[@JohnSmith-nc6ul]

Great, thanks Kathleen. Words of common sense and wisdom.

[@cynthiamartin6606]

How brave she has been, to speak up knowing how that could threaten her safety and livelihood.

[@steph744]

thank you coleman for having dr stock on your show. would love to see more interviews on that issue.

[@claireaustick8898]

I can completely identify with her I feel bullied and isolated because I share this view thankyou for this interview

[@6422022]

I don't know any child that wasn't bullied. I was called bubble butt pizza face, slut one day whore the next then gay...I never even kissed a boy or girl. Kids today don't have a thick skin they are given privilege's out of pity this is why we have a generation of week minded, poor job performance, entitled pri%%s. This is why our family and moral values are messed up today.

[@pamphease5955]

Thank you so much for this interview and your views on this topic. I have been researching this issue since Posy Parker was accused by our NZ mainstream media as being a far right, hate-speaking, anti-trans activist and then being assaulted and threatened by radical trans activists. I had never heard of her before these events. My sister fully transitioned about 40 years ago when she was in her late 20s and lived her life as a woman. No-one, except our family and people from our small town, knew she had grown up as a boy. After fully transitioning and changing her sex status by law, she married a man, worked as a female, used female public toilets and travelled overseas as a female. I guess she would be what Kathleen referred to as a "old school transexual" - thank you for clarifying this for me. She just wanted to quietly live her life. Her and I were very close. Sadly, she died 18 months ago but I know that she would be horrified about what is going on now - men being able to say "I'm a woman" and then using that status to their advantage, about the young females caught up in this trans craze and chemically and maybe surgically altering their bodies, and the trans agenda being promoted in our schools, on our main stream media and by our radical left-wing government. Thank you so much Kathleen.

[@callummilburn8204]

I remember the news of Kathleen being forced out of her university position. Is good to see her and Colman have a good open discussion. Quite balanced. Not for right or far left. Contrary to the narratives that are mainstream now days.

[@katec9893]

Kathleen is brilliant, glad to see she is being interviewed. She's a voice of reason on this topic.

[@marycollins8215]

A friend shared with me Mr. Hughes, and I'm so impressed with your conversations. I needed this one because it is something I've been really attempting to grasp, and I'm a 64 year old heterosexual female, however have always been very much in support of gay marriage a rights. Much of what Kathleen Stock resonates. On a recent Bill Maher Real Time program one or two gay male guests, both over 40 were saying that they didn't like feeling that after all they had done they were to be advocating for the trans community. When I thought about that it made sense to me, why that "grouping" with more and more letters being added? Also, I have other friends who are moms of young adults who are supporting them in their transition decisions. So above all I want to be loving, kind, and compassionate, but also not be constantly dealing with the "identity" aspects of things. I may say I'm a unicorn and want to be called Lavender, but that doesn't change who I am really. Mental health issues with children who have been natives of social media and tech is really a major concern. Thank you.

[@nancykisich3263]

She nails it. We were doing fine evolving thru our identities before this BUSINESS & POWER GRAB of our identity. Another casualty of not being big enough like a JK Rowling

[@libertasdemocratiam887]

Make sure you guys keep our British women who daring to stand up for women's rights, Posie Parker's treatment in New Zealand should be a wake up call for all.

[@misfitm1457]

Yeah tha\t was horrific and very scary

[@animaldefender0001]

I was totally shocked by that. I live in NZ and until this last government came to power, this was a very peaceful, cruisy and tolerant society. Jacinda "jack boots" Ardern divided our society, and created two classes of people - making a whole class of people into pariahs and "lepers". That government has set us on the road to totalitarianism.

[@francishooper9548]

As a Kiwi I would tell any woman looking to visit New Zealand that they should think twice before doing so. The police will not take any steps to protect you should you be unfortunate enough to get into any strife. There is a very bad gang culture in NZ and should you run foul of these gangs you will not receive support from the authority.

[@lunalith]

I'm a biological male who is bi and who presents across the gender divide. Regarding the question as to whether I am spoken for by the radical trans activist movement, I am not! Kathleen, as a voice of reason and good judgement, was very let down by Sussex Uni and others in my view. Thanks for a very well presented piece and for getting to the good sense so calmly, clearly and effectively.