Realm of the Mad God - Was I Wrong?

[@heyfell4301]

I love how this isn't a "hey, this game isn't that bad as i said before", it's more of like a "this game is bad, but not for those reasons."

[@eruhinmakhtar9162]

As an on and off ROTMG player its exactly this

[@darlingxluxii7977]

@@eruhinmakhtar9162 ikrrr

[@Lin.QiYuan]

He ain’t wrong though

[@genericnpcs]

I mean it isn't Warframe

[@sun332s7]

I played ROTMG for years I remember when it came out. As I got older I gave up on the game. I can say right now (after checking all the new stuff) it’s still just a generic grinder. The perms death is actually a worse for the game now too. Also exalting a character it’s a monster of a task.

[@elizabethviolet8448]

josh: "realm of the mad god is bad" rotmg fanbase: "you're wrong, it's SO MUCH WORSE THAN YOU THOUGHT LMAO"

[@shinkamui]

tbh if they want to make a positive change in the game, props for them to wanting something that accurate represents exactly how bad it is and what its bad at. These players are nothing if not dedicated lol

[@LunaSolarysAD]

Lmfaooooo

[@IhungryROTMG]

@@shinkamui trust me, as consistently one of the top 5 most active rotmg discord users, all we talk about is ways the game isn't getting better and what we wish would change hoping they actually pick up some ideas or criticisms.

[@hyperdavid_]

All i got to say is skill issue LOL

[@water-poweredmachine8291]

litteraly lol

[@Wilverry]

What an absolute legend for your monologue in the beginning, it takes a big man to admit that you didn't do the best and to try again after, so much respect

[@gimreaper7125]

Man really said, "I apologize. This wasn't good enough" even though he could've doubled down. I respect it man, thanks for giving our dying game the exposure and honest criticism. Earned a sub

[@clyde7143]

Moreso that he didn't took down the wrong video. Definitely have my sub

[@Sephiroso.]

@@clyde7143 He didn't take the video down because the video as a whole wasn't wrong. He's clowning on the people who claimed h is first video was bad in this one the same way he did with the person who clowned on his Tera video.

[@brandonl4663]

@@Sephiroso. no

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

When being cordial, the best mindset is to check and be informed by the community resorting to anger entrenches feelings and justifies the critique

[@j1337-l1n]

@@Sephiroso. you have a strange definition of clowning

[@ZX3RR0R]

Although there were some major misunderstandings on certain game mechanics like (soulbound, pets etc.), ultimately the first review still captures the new player experience very well. I did not know about the community either when i started sometime before watching your video and that might even push me further away from the game since I care about the solo experience a lot more. Props to you for addressing your shortcomings and releasing a response to the criticism.

[@CloudWalkBeta]

Watching a series about MMO’s, but you say you like solo experience games?… Do I get to tease you for that?

[@Tiana_atr]

@@CloudWalkBeta just cause someone prefers to play solo does not meant there is no value to playing an mmo. I like the solo content of ffxiv, but I much enjoy watching everyone else go about their business. I'll be crafting in limsa only for someone to start playing a song and I will stop just to listen to them. People do all sorts of crazy or weird things and it makes the world feel alive. I'm not playing much *with* other ppl, but the experience would be lesser if they weren't there at all.

[@Utrilus]

​@@Tiana_atr I don't play MMO's, not anymore, don't enjoy them. Tho realm of the mad god was one of a handful I've played. I'm not the target audience for the video, but thing is they are entertaining in their own right even when you don't care about MMO's, at least that's the case for me.

[@Kaikirith]

@@CloudWalkBeta there are people out there that play mmo's for a solo experience for a variety of reasons. that's their prerogative. "Do I get to tease you for that?" why? because someone has the gall to play a multiplayer game by themselves? who cares.

[@PrettyKnucklehead]

I have played rotmg only as a solo player for a long time its still fun just a bit harder for the really top end game dungeons

[@Kokonutzlz]

4:32 I was one of these people. Any new player I came across, I taught them everything I knew about how to play the game, what to watch out for. I know how important it is to get a good tutorial and not feel lost, and even more importantly, to feel welcomed into a community/game, so I tried my best. I got some of my best enjoyment from the game when I was younger around 2013 (?) or so when I was generously given mid-level equipment from strangers who had no use for it, so I am proud to say that I've paid it forward.

[@darlingxluxii7977]

I’m glad you’ve done so much good things! Spreading positivity in the community and giving support is the best thing

[@MrMaksibon]

I did the same thing lol

[@MonochromaticPrism]

Same. This last Christmas I went to the trade server and sold pots (and asked for donations) for tier 11 gear and t3/4 hp rings to give to new players. Many players were quite generous, and by the end I only had a few ability items for less popular classes left over. It was honestly more fun than grinding. I also recommend anyone reading this to save your egg drops to give to newbies, getting your first pet going is rough for a new player.

[@thesteampunkking7141]

I don’t think I’ve ever met a toxic player in the game, it’s such a sweet community

[@Kokonutzlz]

@@thesteampunkking7141 bruh. I'm glad that you've had that experience but that's definitely not the type of experience I had

[@xzhaetrotmg3078]

I've played RotMG for over a decade and I must say i've never seen one person have such an impact on the community. Thanks for addressing the issues the game is currently facing.

[@TheFallenAngelxX1996]

um, swatsec, msellers,bert, alot more

[@MrInsiipid]

@@TheFallenAngelxX1996 entirely different kind of "impact" they're talking about here lol.

[@AQworldsined36]

@@TheFallenAngelxX1996 these guys are forum heroes mate, completely different.

[@mcfarvo]

BMJ

[@mcfarvo]

Seven/Sven

[@kellykr22]

As an active player from 2011-2018, the “RotMG is more of a community and not a game” line hit hard. And I forgot how tedious it was for new players to hit level 20. I’m used to being able to take a new character to 3/8 or 4/8 in a few hours from having a group of 5 to play with and years of doing PPE challenges. Also sad to see that the p2w has only gotten worse in the last few years, but with this 2nd video I don’t see any lasting inaccuracies so props to being humble and props to the player base for being so welcoming

[@pedromurta2963]

@musesesese yeah, the p2w was WAY WORSE on kabam era

[@Ombrepoyo]

I played through 2013-2020 and it was really good except for kabam era, i think deca really brought a new breath to the game but after joining ds servers and a tryhard guild i found playing the game more like a loot randomizer than a mmo bullet hell, the best times where when i got my first 3/8 and consecuentially died to a group of medusas in gl bc i got greedy

[@DudleyIntelligence]

@musesesese Pet nerf ruined the game imo. People paid stacks and stacks of $ to get their pet to be the best, and they nerfed them.

[@DrPwnU915]

honestly he really didnt address anything, everyone knows already that the people who complain about pay to win in RotMG are honestly the worst of the worst of scrubs

[@mysteretsym]

@@DudleyIntelligence pet nerf didnt ruin anything

[@DarkCobra88]

Gotta love both Josh and the Realm community. Props to the community for not being dicks and actually just wanting a fair review and props to Josh for being humble to himself and everyone in his honestly of his "mistakes"... even though it still reads the same end result. Love this channel so much, such a good person and very honest, no bias.

[@freddieclarke8751]

I am a 8 year realm veteran and I really appreciate the effort you put in to re look at realm. Your statement about realm being a community and not a game is so true. For as long as i can remember realm has had terrible devs. We went through about 3 years on no updates but the game was kept alive because the community was so strong

[@rexthero]

Sounds like a passionate community. I have only played realm of the mad God on a browser on school. Despite the pay to win I might give it a try just for the community

[@kernium]

Are you sure you are not talking about Team Fortress 2? I'm joking of course but the "3 years of no updates" made me think about TF2.

[@DoingFavors]

Thanks for being honest about what's going on. It's okay to love something and still be a little critical of it.

[@freddieclarke8751]

​@@kernium Unfortunate not, the OG devs WildShadow were amazing for the game and made most of the good content and weren't P2W at all. However they were also a tiny studio and couldnt keep up with the demand the game had so they sold the game to Kabam. While things started off well with new dungeons and content people realised they were very very predatory. It was the classic big company takes over small game and rinses it for profit before dumping it, which is exactly what happened. Soon enough for about 3 years straight there was a single person, NullBot, working on RotMG, no updates at all. Despite this the community was really good, the KZbin scene was small but very active and the game lasted way longer than it should have. That's when Deca Games took over who are the current devs. They are frankly much better than Kabam and have implemented a bunch of new features including porting the entire game from Flash to Unity although they seem to be more and more focused on money now, the content is slow and steady but the communication is lacking. It sounds a bit depressing but im really hopeful for Realm, the community is super strong and the game itself is addictive. Even with no dev support it would last a long ass time as it has done before. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[@kernium]

@@freddieclarke8751 Oh no... Not Kabam. I remember having a lot of fun in a mobile/Facebook game called Blastron back in 2013 if I remember right. The game was getting more and more P2W and there were more and more cheaters but instead of fixing all that, Kabam decided pull the plug and shut down the servers. I am terribly sorry that Kabam got a hold on this game, Realm seemed like a cool game if you did not think about all the P2W stuff.

[@Luckydeath973]

I appreciate the re-review, I'm surprised no one mentioned to you the extensive settings to make dungeon/oryx a lot easier on the eyes. I too was very confused how anyone could dodge in such a massive mess, turns out there's settings to hide other player's attacks, or make them transparent to such a degree that it becomes a lot easier to dodge. It's at that point that I enjoyed the game a lot more.

[@studiesinflux1304]

I guess it's another thing that shows the game is set on milking the dwindling playerbase unfortunately In games that are still actively developed, the devs would listen to the comments and change the default settings.

[@Zealwind]

I just knew this. Thanks

[@Flaruwu]

@@studiesinflux1304 people are adverse to change, many people would complain if the Devs went around changing their defaults and presets.

[@Remls]

@@Flaruwu The defaults for new players would be changed, not for everyone. Changelogs + social media posts should then let existing players know that the new options are now there, for them to use if they want to.

[@Aerowind]

@@studiesinflux1304 Eh, I mean that's even a problem for FF14. Default settings in FF14 will lead to you outright wiping (ESPECIALLY in Endwalker where the animations have been turned up to 11). The animations are neat, but you just flat out can't see what the boss is doing with them turned on.

[@reese4627]

Having played this game for years, i can say that a lot of the community wants nothing more than new players to stay because for a lot of us this game goes back years. I love this game it has a special place in my past but i can absolutely agree that the devs dont care. Its a hidden gem and if it ever made a comeback i know this game could be enjoyable to everyone as it is to me

[@biohazardmilk631]

The catch to the game is the "rogue like" part thats supposed to be. And this game will never revive since u can just buy items levels pets potions. Hanse defeats the purpose of the rogue like part, that people try it out for in the first place.

[@simodelfario4739]

@@biohazardmilk631 I get that its possible to buy gear and that it defeats the purpose of a rogue like but there are genuinly almost no people actually doing that since getting the gear thats purchasable is an actual waste of money and noone that plays this game knows that, except new players. The ingame shop unfortenatly is mostly an issue for new people wanting to play this game, making it very hard to get into

[@RemedialRob]

I kind of agree but at the same time since certain servers like US East and US East2 are at Max capacity most of the time if you can squirt your way on to one of them there are loads of players and it feels very vibrant with all that's going on. I get that it would be better for the game if all or most of the servers were near capacity and the devs were struggling to open up additional servers to handle the large player base but when I'm waiting ten minutes in a queue to get onto USEast and I burst into the Nexus with 100 players or more there bartering and popping dungeons and two of the three available realms are at 85/85 players it doesn't feel like the game is lacking for players.

[@xXWorldgamefunXx]

​@@biohazardmilk631 Everything that you can get, you can get for free through skill, events or grinding. And there is a lot of skill expression in rotmg, it's one of the hardest games that exist. Buying 10x a good item set in a row will not compensate for a lack of skill, as you will die immediately with that set anyways if you haven't earned it. Btw. leveling up to 20 takes less than 5 minutes and I wouldn't even consider buying level up potions pay2win. Your critique of pets is completely valid, though.

[@biohazardmilk631]

@@xXWorldgamefunXx im not arguing about skill or how hard the game is. The idea of a rogue-like game is to reset the progress once you die. The shop kills the whole concept of rogue like. How skilled one is has nothing to do with the fact that you can buy the things you should be playing for.

[@thegamesforreal1673]

This is why I respect Josh! I haven't even seen the video yet, but this kind of integrity to go back and re-examine past videos and correct himself is what elevates him above a lot of other content!

[@Oi1Suzy]

No, it'll just be the next iteration of "the loop". Reacting to and reviewing his own review. It's finally corrupted the main channel.

[@grimkitten8254]

ikr it does tell alot about his character to not stoop to that level and then just ignoring his mistakes :3

[@NicoTheCinderace]

@think differently Bot detected.

[@iglidor]

If these mistakes do not happen regulary, then respect to Josh for fixing the few mistakes he made. If apology/correction vids became kinda common place, that would mean that author is making the same mistakes again and again without learning anything. So far Josh is solidly in the first category. But I remember few content creator that I stoped watching who started exactly like this, with their first correction video and ended up messing things from then on on regular basis. So lets hope that Josh truly learned from this and that he did not become complacent about his content creation.

[@RomanRichter420]

Except Guild Wars 2

[@cparty7790]

Being able to go back and admit faults is already far more than the overwhelming amount of content creators out there these days are willing to do. Mad respect for that, actually adds even more to your credibility.

[@kyotheman69]

still he didn't have to, his video was still on point the game is terrible and doesn't convey things to new players, clearly sign that game is losing its player base and company is trying nickel and dime those people been there from beginning and still playing

[@Utrilus]

But did he really have to harp about himself admitting fault for half of the video's runtime?

[@laranjo5999]

As an added benefit, being wrong just means more content.

[@vcdonovan5943]

Except Josh isn't really at fault here. Everyone seems to agree that the game doesn't acclimate new players. If anything, he was just going through the real new player experience of having to have veteran players step in and show you how the game is really played. Really, it just further highlights just how poorly designed the game is. It's nice of him to submit a follow up to changing circumstances, but there's no fault of his that he has to own up to. This addendum still says more about RotMG than it does about him.

[@Sephiroso.]

@@Utrilus He's not really saying his first video was incorrect. He's just politely schooling the idiots who shat on his first video same way he did on stream with the guy who shat on his Tera video. The idiots who shat on his first video but praise this one are truly short bus riders because he's practically making fun of them but in a polite way and they're eating it up. Case in point, he's reiterating the same points his first video brought up and didn't change his conclusion in the slightest. He just corrected the 1 mistake he did about what soulbound meant and highlighted how what soulbound actually is is even worse than what he thought it was which is so funny.

[@re7ro896]

To explain the new class at lvl 5 thing, we need to dive all the way back to its beginnings with Wild Shadow Studios. It had it's own client and was later available for play on flash game websites and Steam. It used to be where the wizard was the only class you had, and you needed to reach lvl 5 to unlock the other 5 starting classes. It's... honestly weird that it hasn't been patched out yet considering those days have been gone for years.

[@wowisntitanamazinglyamazin9550]

Duuude I remember that, I was in like middle school

[@super4bobba421]

@@wowisntitanamazinglyamazin9550 Saaame

[@ZeloepOlleh]

Still does it today lol

[@MrSilzs]

This is why I'm subbed to you, no double standards, really professional, humor and self reflection.

[@DrPwnU915]

this is a scrub hating on the difficulty of a game thats not even meant for his learning ability, and uses completely inaccurate statements to back it up, you might as well just put his cucumber in your mouth

[@squirrelthegamer8483]

I really appreciate this isn’t your typical apology video or submitting to the demands of the masses. He’s genuinely considering feedback and doing a reassessment of the game while also fixing objective mistakes in his last vid. I was hoping he wasn’t solely going to be positive and still be honest with his criticisms and well Josh hasn’t let me down. Great job man, love ya.

[@angelonip2367]

14:10 the reason of that is because you're playing the Steam version that allows you to Play with 4 different classes since the beginning, but in the webpage game (old and original one) you start only with wizard.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

This might not be an "I was wrong" but more a "I wasn't wrong, but I was right in the wrong way." As long as he doesn't backtrack on how stupid it is the first thing that you see in the main game is the ACTUAL CURRENCY SHOPS, I'm happy. That really got to me for some reason.

[@Dorfs]

i used to play RotMG when i was a kid, the core gameplay is fun but its wayyyy too riddled with micro transactions imo. its a good time waster though if you got 30 min to play something light

[@intrigued381]

Yeah realm has plenty of issues but josh focused on all the wrong things

[@Jepegish]

This!

[@TheJustVillain]

@@intrigued381 it wasn’t about why he didn’t critique the problems we were having about as players it was his criticism regarding his experience with the game in the time frame of 10 hours and the additional hours necessary for an additional review.

[@ArcDragoon]

@@Dorfs Having thirty minutes to waste? Go play Vampire Survivors. $3.

[@cargodrotmg2451]

Good video. 14:12 - the only starter class used to be wizard. With wizard, you'd unlock priest and with priest you'd unlock the archer. Deca made it so that there are 5 starter classes instead of just the wizard

[@RandomNickCanada]

The fact that you summed up what is essentially the pinnacle of capital incentives through supplying what is not only in demand but expected is beautiful. Holding yourself to such a standard is something that huge monopolies, news stations, online creators and influencers, and most importantly politicians needs to have at a bare minimum in order to get my respect. Let alone that of the millions they are supposed to be appeasing anx working for on the daily, nay on a second to second basis. I don't need to hear more, though I will watch the whole video. +1 sub. Thank u. I'm literally moved while laying in bed at 12:36AM.

[@ButNotMyWife]

I found it funny how you got a lot of major facts incorrect, but still arrived at the correct conclusion that the game is essentially Pay To Win due to the strength of pets.

[@Fuudo_123]

Sounds like what happened to me many years ago in an exam, I got the right answer but because I didn't use the working they wanted, I still got it wrong haha

[@osuplaeyurreallygood]

it's more pay for convenience than pay to win. what exactly are you winning in this game? if you aren't careful even with maxed out pots and top tier gear you can still die even in glands

[@temmmieeee4389]

Although pets are pretty strong, I don't think its completely pay to win since even with a really good pet you still need to have at least some skill at dodging, and I say this with divine pet in the 90s for heal and mheal

[@WillowGreenheart]

@@temmmieeee4389 It's still p2w. Sorry but that's what it is.

[@LeafRunner]

You can pay for best in slot gear, storage space, inventory space, legendary pets that heal you, potion slots, buffs, dungeon keys, and lootboxes, but still you Deca simps insist the game isn't pay to win. Sounds to me like an abusive relationship. The issues run much deeper than just pets, and your comment just seems like a bad faith strawman of Josh's argument.

[@DaMasque]

Love how humbling he is, admitting and fixing his mistakes. Takes quite a person to accept faults and learn from it. The game... well... its definitely a game.

[@clray123]

Not much humility, he just uses his air time to double down on his whining.

[@Hugsloth]

I wish he wouldn't call every single one of these videos "WORST MMO EVER??" as if games like Neverwinter, Digimon Online, and ROTMD are even REMOTELY comparable, or even close to 'the worst' of the genre. But I guess this is a YT algorithm thing.

[@kleeraly]

@@clray123 Where the fuck was the whine?

[@Varue]

@@Hugsloth straight from this video: "the worst mmo ever series is indeed a provocative title designed to generate an emotional response, but i don't want it to be click bait, i want to set up a question and then answer it fairly" i feel like this makes sense

[@NateTheScot]

Humble* humbling is the response from the players

[@pixelcrust]

i got interviewed as a pixel artist and felt like they were looking for someone cheap and did not like the price i told them

[@bullbruh2753]

"neglected" is an amazing way to put it. I've been playing RotMG for 6.5 years with over 8000 hours and 1.2k usd spent on the game. I enjoy the game, but it IS neglected. DECA simply lets the players keep the game alive while the whales keep the servers up. If you're still interested in RotMG and it's background, look into all of the content that is in the game that comes from the players from the game. Those $30 skins you see? Made by players. Some of those dungeons? Made by players. Almost every single music piece? Made by players (unpaid). The amount of user generated content in RotMG shows how much the community cares about the game and how much DECA depends on the current players to attract newer players.

[@Sevarrius]

All unpaid? The only word I can think of is exploitation, the Devs sound awful. Knowing that they are sitting back and likely making a sizeable amount of money off of all of this 'appropriated' content is the kind of thing that makes me a little sick due to it's morally dubious nature. Honestly I have dabbled with RotMG over the years but if this is true I don't think I'll be touching it again.

[@rabbit2686]

@@Sevarrius Yeah, I don't care how good the game eventually gets. I would not support that kind of exploitation.

[@MCLuviin]

You are part of the problem.

[@OwinBlazer]

As info, the work is voluntary in the sense that the community is doing stuff out of love for the game. But the company prefers to pay us back in in-game cash rather than take the grace in thanks or just paying for usage properly.

[@wyattfliess4793]

@cyotee doge LOL that's why part of the community play "private servers" which is really just a realm sc copy and then added on to

[@wesleyward5901]

A KZbinr with standards and integrity? Those are few and far between so I'm glad you're one of them

[@SECONDQUEST]

Bad dudes are more likely to game the algorithm.

[@dakotakent4246]

Came to watch this guy's content because of two clips I saw randomly on youtube that made me say "Holy shit this guy seems reasonable" and this video cemented that impression for me. This dude, to me, seems genuine and wholesome so I think I'm gonna stick around a bit. We need more of this on the internet. P.S. In case you're curious, the clips were one about being judged for ordering "girly" drinks, and the other was about how E-girls are not ruining everything or stealing views.

[@Charziken]

The reason you “unlocked” archer when hitting level 5 with the priest is because back then, you only started with the wizard. You didn’t have the 5 classes to choose from right away. This seems to be a remnant of the code from back then

[@elmooth0]

if you play on the standalone launcher you only start with wizard still, whereas steam starts with 5 classes. thats probably part of the issue

[@Charziken]

@@elmooth0 didn’t they remove that? Pretty sure when I started a new account on standalone I had the first five unlocked.

[@solomonpardue3605]

@@leeboykevin9583 You don't need to be a professional director to give valid criticism of a movie, you don't need to be a 5 Michelin star chef to say a burger tastes like shit. If you think otherwise then you're a hypocrite because you have opinions on things too. You can be good at a shit game and you can be shit at a good game. It doesn't matter much as long as you're good at thinking objectively and use your frame of reference from playing years of games to point out flaws you've seen in other games, or films, food, art. The only way to determine if you agree with someone or just understand their point of view and find it valuable is to play a game he's reviewed that you either like or want to try and play it. If you agree with most of his takes well done you can watch his videos with a sound mind and if you disagree you might still see his point of view in which case try another game and repeat or decided for yourself. If you disagree entirely that's fine too just make up your own mind and don't try to gate keep critique.

[@mitotakjde9763]

@@leeboykevin9583 well, it isn't about being good at a game, but about accurately explaining his experience in the game. He might make some mistakes in his reviews, and he did make some in the past, but this series isn't about researching the game in depth, but about what a new player experiences, if he did his research before playing, it would no longer be a new player experience.

[@Zulfar-bd9tc]

@@leeboykevin9583 He's reviewing a game based on new players entering it. He has lots of knowledge about MMOs in general, but not this specific game, which is a very important distinction to have because you want to have knowledge of the topic you're dealing with to be able to explain what's bad, but not so detailed about this specific game that when you go to review it for new player experience you accidentally misrepresent it in the process, because a new player experience is very different compared to a experienced player creating another character.

[@_Pyroon_]

When veteran players want you to work on early game and not end game, you know you're doing something wrong

[@themythicaldragonhunter9504]

The problem is veteran players want both. I've played since almost it's birth about 1k hours on the steam version. The content becomes too easy after a while since you can mesmerize boss attack patterns. It leads too a vacuum of wanting new and old items while also wanting more players to play with since it's fun with friends and hearing their reactions. The early game is different from what it used to be the game was simpler and less hard. Now as a new player you can fight something impossible for you to kill in the world and die instantly but yea I'd say the game has been making bad decisions for a while.

[@mysteretsym]

@@themythicaldragonhunter9504 getting good at a game doesnt make the game bad. It’s not a bad thing that you can become skilled at a game. Plus soloing a few dungeons is impossibly hard but the most skilled players have managed to do it

[@unky5724]

@@mysteretsym not tryna put a character i’ve put months of trading and grinding to max out in a solo dungeon if it’s 1 of the hardest because some of them get pretty insane

[@charlesblake9261]

@@unky5724 *weeks at most, not months. No one spends months just 8/8ing a character it takes like a week of playing 2 hrs each day max.

[@Rakadramon]

This also sounds like DC Universe in a nutshell. Especially with support roles and them handing out free CR skips to near endgame, thrusting new players into Raids without a clue to all the layers upon layers they're missing out on.

[@sanderolsen7426]

its almost annoying how, honest, nice, humble, real and good minded this guy is. bro apologised to something he doesnt even "have" to point out. love it

[@skellymon1771]

Technically does if you consider that his business is built on reputation. Ignoring issues that affect the core of your business is how you go out of business. You can tell from this video that is what deca (the owners of rotmg) are facing and clearly neglecting and clearly suffering from (he even pointed this out with the user decline chart).

[@domie1420]

Can you explain to me why you'd feel annoyed by another person being honest, nice, humble, real and good minded? It always baffles me when I feel this (what I suppose is envy) in people. Shouldn't you rejoice that you've found a real, honest humble person, and try to build with them if possible?

[@sanderolsen7426]

@@domie1420 its called a joke, i like him. u are overthinking it whiteknight

[@domie1420]

@@sanderolsen7426 No Sander don't do this. Don't be a coward. Analyze what you felt and why you felt it. I've seen this energy way too much from people and they always cower back. Genuine envy is what is is. Next time be happy when you find a good person instead of being a geek

[@kpkieuphong2097]

@@domie1420 I feel like you're a pretty nice person who wants to help others, so ima leave a little advice here. For starter, the usage of the word "annoying" was a joke by itself and he did not mean what he said. Which leads to my point: You need to consider other possibilities of what a person could be thinking without assuming that you're 100% correct, since words can be used very subjectively. You should also understand relevant information about a person before you help them on a specific aspect. Good luck with whatever you're doing and enjoy the day

[@Bert4th]

Hey, I'm not sure if anyone else pointed this out but the hitting level 5 thing is an old design. No idea when this was changed, but for years you started with only the wizard, hit level 5, got priest, hit level 5, got archer, hit level 5, got rogue, hit level 5, got warrior, and then all the other classes required level 20.

[@mbase6469]

And before THAT all classes were unlocked from the get-go and wizard didn't have a cool double bolt. Back then your characters were stored locally and you could just copy the file out and back in to "save" a character who died. What a time.

[@F-00]

correction: that is still the current design, for some reason they decided that steam accounts have more classes unlocked at the start, if you download the game from the official website, make an account and then start playing, you will only have the wizard unlocked and you will unlock the other classes the way it was intended.

[@seankkg]

I enjoy that your take on soulbound items was far more optimistic than the reality.

[@RandommBoyo]

I feel dumb for not giving enough of a crap how actually braindead buying ST items is. You pay several bucks for a set you can grind, that you can also easily lose,and get scammed, bruh.

[@raphielle.]

@@RandommBoyo 90% of ST arent even viable for endgame so it doesnt matter in the end. Unless it's a tenne or a mercy, youre probably gonna feed it to your pet.

[@Jarrothegeesh]

the game genuinely has changed imo. When i first started playing realm i was...like 15? this was 9 years ago. In an early phase it was a great wholesome game with a lot of nostalgia being that it was very retro stylized. Now its become so pay2win and there are so many more complex systems that arent well explained that im afraid it will die due to lack of new players. Being a veteran player i simply know to use the resources that the community provides instead of trying to only listen to the game. The community has extremely helpful wikipedia pages, trading websites, discords, and youtube videos explaining how to play the game. Even players in the game are extremely kind and helpful. The thing i love about the community of this game is that i could still nowadays ask any question and atleast 5 people will dm me telling me how to help. I genuinely really love this game and i still enjoy it sooo soo much. But it makes me sad because im only enjoying it because i already have played for 9 years and have 7 maxed out characters so i can do the huge difficult raids and hardest dungeons while new players are struggling with snakes and pirate caves thinking that the game has little to offer them. This being said, i think the only reason this game is still keeping players is because of the community being loyal and helpful as opposed to the devs actually caring.

[@TheCrappyZipper]

The nature of the game has always been based on intrinsic values. Fame is the name of the game.

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

@@TheCrappyZipper *fame was the name of the game, now it's gold...

[@themythicaldragonhunter9504]

I think you're right but we gotta remember some of the hired developers used to be part of the community. The problem is the company has become so corporate in the recent years. Rather than the small indie developer studio Deca upon buying the game. While the regular open world with Highlands lowlands godlands have only progressively gotten harder especially in the godland category. Got lines of now become even more difficult and more confusing for newer players to understand. While vault storage, character storage, and pets are intrinsically pay to win. The community is the only thing holding it together man.

[@BlackAxe101]

Unfortunately I would have to agree. As someone who has seen whales leave the game after years of draining their wallets for their pet or whatever. The game wont last if there isn't a large number of players spending some money, or more realistically, a small number of huge whalers. I think the new content they add also reinforces this since its for high level players usually. If it isn't most players don't give a shit since they already have "end Game" characters vs the few amount of new blood that will enjoy new low-mid level content.

[@FlyHiqher]

started at 10 years old, currently 17... wild to think of that

[@Gunstling]

Absolutely top tier class and integrity, willing to take feedback and re-examine to become better at this craft. Absolutely brilliant

[@yourworstfan]

I love this guy, honestly. I will never play the vast majority of the games he covers, but the care he puts into discussing game design and where it goes wrong is fascinating to me.

[@wolfwyvern3662]

Yesterday when I've watched this, I noticed a lot of things going on in the comments of people trying to correct the wrongly addressed mechanics / issues, it feels so nice to know that Josh reads those and then addresses it himself just the next day!

[@finntastiq1524]

Rotmg is one of my childhood games, I loved it from the start because of all the risks involved just by playing the game. After years of playing I've come to experience a lot of it and especially the dark side of it all. Your videos about Realm really did help voice a lot of the concerns I have that I couldn't word out myself. The quality of your videos really is something that I appreciate, I hope your motivation to do these kind of things never waver because it is something that is very inspiring even to just everyday gamers.

[@AJ_Ol]

The overall conclusion is still the same, a shitty company making a game that is held together by an incredibly dedicated community.

[@Patrick-go8ub]

Yes, but the big difference is that it is now based on fact rather than assumptions. This makes it both more fair to the developer and more valuable to anyone considering playing this game. I think the important take away here isn't that he was right in both cases, but that the way he went about it the first time, meant that he could have just been wrong.

[@HEARTHLINGjoel]

Heh, as a rotmg fan deca has arguably been the best company we've had. They may be greedy and slow to develop the important content but they at least released content (looking at u kabam)

[@neiloch]

@@Patrick-go8ub His first experience is still a "fact." That was how he perceived the game when playing it for the first time. Getting details wrong because the game communicated them poorly and depends on the community to fill the gaps is still a negative aspect of the game. When this one was so "off" and dozens of others he made were much more accurate just speaks to another aspect of the games poor quality.

[@Patrick-go8ub]

@@neilochhe made incorrect assumptions based on his experience and didn't do his due diligence to check if they were correct. He later corrected them when confronted about it. Sharing your experience is valuable for a review, but that is completely besides the point, really. And also, NO, an experience is NOT a fact and should never be treated as such.

[@neiloch]

@@Patrick-go8ub What? Of course his experience of the game is fact. He experienced the way he experienced it. Do you think he was lying? Yes he was objectively mistaken about some of what he said but he genuinely thought that is how it worked, he thought that because of the experience he had with it. Therefore that experience was "real." Its a "fact" he experienced the game that way unless you thought he was lying.

[@GleffRotmg]

This video sums up the other one so much better! I'll be sure to share this to the game developers (im partnered with them) since here you bring up alot more better points that sounds reasonable to an endgame player like me and others! Good work!

[@Wallynator23]

I heard that Deca partners are neglected and your suggestions are ignored. Is that true?

[@broba3799]

@@Wallynator23 he's not legally allowed to answer such a question.

[@cebmofroz]

@@Wallynator23 Pretty true but no snitchin lmfao

[@cowbobs1296]

@@Wallynator23 Yes they are, most of the former deca partners quit because of the lack of communication and care of Deca.

[@RandommBoyo]

'We've listened and are listening to the feedback, and trust us we're 'working' on it. But first let us relesse 4 more sets, new dungeon that's gonna be easier to get with keys, update the shop with more deals and be more greedy as usual because *we love you guys, we're a family.* '

[@SATOhara3173]

Been watching your videos as they show up in my recommended feed and this honest and thoughtful reaction to criticism about your commentary just sealed the deal on subscribing to you.

[@GuyFromCanada]

It’s good to see that games having lacking tutorials and relying on the community to on-board players isn’t just a Team Fortress 2 thing.

[@Flamme-Sanabi]

What the hell ya mean? Stop talking nonesense AND PUSH THE CART!

[@HexPhoenix]

@@Flamme-Sanabi HOW

[@Flamme-Sanabi]

@@HexPhoenix You numnut! You stand behind it, AND PUSH!

[@FakeMaker]

Oh man, TF2... How's the game been recently? Haven't played in years, but I have very fond memories of it. Loved the gamemodes like dodgeball, surf, rocket jump courses, etc. And the community was (mostly) awesome, especially on smaller servers where you played with regulars and the owners. I still remember the summer nights, playing on a small server at 2 am with a few people, talking to each other, emoting, flexing with the hats and weapons I got for my hard earned refined metal, keys and buds. Those were the days. Might come back for a while to see what's changed. Ehm, thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[@Flamme-Sanabi]

@@FakeMaker it is surviving. Like the human body with outside virus' and bacteria, is Team Fortress 2 unable to get killed by bots, despite their extreme ways of lagging servers and stuff.

[@grimkitten8254]

this video totally got me to respect Josh way more among many other youtubers for being a professional and honorable person to watch and trust to be influenced by, thank you for making the effort for us Josh

[@Sephiroso.]

He literally didn't change his views or opinions though lol. He just corrected himself on the one glaring mistake which was about what soulbound meant and got powerleveled with people from the community and still came to the same exact conclusion as his first video. People are dumb. His first video was fine barring again the understandable mistake he made with what soulbound meant. Game is still trash and dying for a reason.

[@gerax2003]

@@Sephiroso. it wasn't about changing his views or opinions, read the smart casual gamer's comment: the result stays the same, the game's problems won't change between videos, it's just the way he presented his arguments that was wrong, and that is what the RotMG community explained to him

[@Sephiroso.]

@@gerax2003 Other than the soulbound thing, name one thing in his other video that was flatout wrong.

[@Voldycssm19]

@@Sephiroso. He thought that the only way to access content was through buying keys, he didn't mention how you could escape to nexus, he makes it sound like getting level 20 is a big part of the experience and getting exaltations is another major step, while in reality getting level 20 takes like 3 minutes done right and getting max exaltations takes months or years

[@Voldycssm19]

@@Sephiroso. Look dude, people aren't dumb because of this. We aren't disagreeing with his point in his previous video or this video. We disliked his lack of care when critiquing the game, and we respect that he came back, corrected himself, analyzed the game some more, then came to a revised conclusion, even if it's mostly the same as the previous conclusion

[@magmahead923]

I've played this game for 6 years and just came across this review. The game has been through 3 different companies and is over 10 years old. Everything that I heard in this video was completely stop on. New players get introduced into a boring and unhelpful tutorial and have to tediously die over and over just to find any decent content. Most of the people I play with in this game only play to spend time talking to each other and not actually for the game. Other veteran players only play because they have spent so much money on the game that they feel tied to it. The company that currently runs the game had a fantastic launch and promised lots of changes, marketing to new players, and development but have slowly gone in that same direction as all the other companies. Making small events which generate fast income, but don't change the experience of the game at all. I'm glad I found this channel, keep up the good work.

[@stitches4714]

Honestly, I just hope he keeps the other review. Even if he changes his mind. It's a step that was made to get to the mindset that he has now. And that history is important

[@MemoriesLP]

Yeah but MANY people will not see that it was wrong, so he will spread wrong information.

[@7svn.]

Misinformation is never good and he should delete those videos due to it.

[@yanhuideng8263]

@@7svn. Better to just make a pinned comment or change thumbnail/description to reflect that

[@Goremize]

@@yanhuideng8263 Yeah, just put a link in that vid to this one in a pinned comment and desc and bam. History kept and the reason for this vid still exists. History is history, its bad to remove it. Never delete vids!

[@L1g7h]

Although history isn't important in MMO's it is important here

[@fungusman]

Thanks for coming back to re evaluate. This is a much better representation of the game. It’s true that realm shines when you have a lot of experience and the skill to consistently 8/8 characters. Unfortunately Deca does not seem to care about new players and has never fully update the beginning of the game. The end game has constantly evolved to where it almost feels like a different game than what new players experience.

[@comfyeon2]

As a new player myself, this couldn’t be more accurate. I played a bit years ago but never got into it because I didn’t know what to do or would get far then die and have no easy way to get back to where I was. Even now, having started again last week, I’m only as far as I am because a generous stranger dropped a T9 item for me and I discovered gifts near my vault. Thankfully I realized dungeons give way more XP and spent some time on them, but even then I have no direction beyond that. I may give the community a try after seeing this but I’m so-so with the clear, strong monetization direction the devs are taking. Thanks for the vid, that was an easy sub and I love your commitment to quality and honesty!

[@cedrikblais6673]

Genuinely amazed that he so quickly turned around and apologize for honest mistake he has made! It takes guts and integrity to admit when your wrong! good job and keep up the good work mr hayes!

[@xLewleit]

Your level of commitment, honesty, and integrity is commendable, Josh. We need many more people like you reporting on games in general, not just MMOs. You deeply remind me of TB in multiple ways, and you definitely help fill that void in the gaming scene.

[@revikofficial]

I haven't play this game for like a decades, now, things changes a lot in this games, When I discovered this game, It looks like a low budget MMO game and cost a lot of money until these days. Now, 3rd party stores makes a lot of players become powerful and better from level 1. Now I'm amazed that the developers did this game more fun and relevant.

[@note_than]

This is amazing. This game deserves criticism and I’m glad you are giving it. But coming back and explaining where you were wrong just makes your opinion that much stronger. Thank you.

[@Chichaetomate]

what you showed on the first video is the very same experience that many one time players had and until changed will have maybe change the title to first impression of Realm of the Mad God and this one is, a more informed analysis of Realm of the Mad God

[@gepflegtePCSpieleKultur]

What is an Adult? Someone that is responsible for himself & others. Someone who is always true to their Moral & Ethics, without been harm- & hurtful to living creatures. Well done, good Sir.

[@howlrichard1028]

"But enough talk. Have at you!"

[@DarkExcalibur42]

Really rad that you're confident enough to come forward with your mistakes like this. I know I can trust your content even more now.

[@caickP]

I truly hope they redesign the open-world "realm", would be cool to have a new world to explore. I believe the developers said they will look into it in the future.

[@garbonzobeanslover2448]

Never gonna happen, DECA has been recycling old content and stealing new content from the community and acting like they made it since they purchases it from Kabam. DECA is a greedy snake that has been sucking this game dry with microtransactions and loot boxes worse than Kabam ever did. And now they ban people for speaking badly about them as developers, they have no spine either.

[@tyuk5107]

They have said so much stuff about looking into in the future we can only wish on a shooting star passing by a blue boon that the feature will come

[@scraberdash4286]

I despise the fact that the open world isnt a full map lol, most of the corners of the map are more often not filled in lmao, I was expecting to be able to use ninja when I first joined as an easy fame farm for exploration but nope 1/3rd is like nonexistent

[@thecoolcarhd4402]

@@garbonzobeanslover2448 What do you mean steal?, So they "stolen" content from another game?, Just becuase a game has a sword in it, doesn't mean its stolen. swords have been around for many years.

[@Kokonutzlz]

I had a grand idea for a whole game redesign, in line with the late-game dungeon running. Something along the lines of Castle Crashers, where you're going in with a group of friends into a dungeon and the fun is seeing if you can survive. Loot would probably be consistent across death while also rewarding using varied builds. My favorite part of RotMG was the arcade-like feel of it, unlike any other MMO that I'm aware of, so the new systems would be much more geared towards just sitting down for a few dungeons runs with a group taking maybe an hour or so on average, instead of the really long grindy process that it currently is

[@Sleksin]

The way the experience changes for an experienced player is quite notable. Most of these issues don't show much for me, because I'm already past them, or adjusted during their introduction (like pets, introduced by the previous (but not original) owners of the game). I haven't played in a few months, but my last time playing felt like the game was arguably the best is has been. But that's as someone will ~1.5k hours. Doing a "PPE/NPE/UPE" run (challenge runs where you have to loot everything yourself, or don't have a pet, or only use specific gear, etc.) often exposes you to the same gameplay as a new player, except you still have the knowledge and familiarity of a veteran player. Also, that advertising as 'an evolution' is, eugh. What makes Realm of the Mad God stand out is not how it develops the MMO, but that it is an MMO designed entirely around its own ideas (at least in terms of gameplay). This makes it unique, but also a very specific game. Even if Realm of the Mad God was put to its absolute ideal state, the best it could ever be, I couldn't easily recommend it to people because it's a freaking bullet hell MMO roguelite. There's a good game in there, the core of it is the same as it was in 2012, but it's surrounded by issues.

[@squee116]

Great video. I've spent about an hour in Realm of the Mad God, so I didn't have a dog in this discussion, but it's nice to see that the community responded relatively constructively and that you accepted the criticism with grace. Gold standard for a creator and community, imo.

[@cuberotmg8308]

What you talk about at like 13:47 , the lvl 5 thing. It's because the steam version starts with 5 classes instead of just 1. Old thing not changed, like you said. Good video. I think you said it really well "Realm is more a community than a game".

[@nozza1015]

Old video cause I’ve been binging your new vids as I’m trying to find some mmo’s to play but I wanted to say I’ve never seen a KZbinr realise their mistakes from internet backlash and make a video addressing it all and fully apologising in such a sincere way, props to you mate

[@MissCookieThief]

Stuff like this is why I love this channel. It shows incredible maturity and respect for someone to hear criticism and honestly reflect on it. It's never easy to be criticized, or to admit when you're wrong. You're a classy guy, Josh. You seriously deserve more subscribers.

[@johndoe-nr9ju]

As a person who hasn't played the game, the first reaction was a bit in line with the follow up review but expanded on the merits and faults, good job.

[@GoodVibes-qy9lp]

Honestly, really respect that you can admit you were wrong and that you hold yourself to a standard. It's a rare mindset in todays world and one that deserves applause.

[@cenciende9401]

'today's' world? Always has been rare, humans are humans.

[@IntegrityGames]

Eh, I put 20 hours into this game before I saw the original video, and the original critique seemed spot on. I'm sure there was more information that could have been conveyed better by a veteran player, or someone with 100+ hours, but I found it to be an honest impression of a game from the perspective of someone in the 20-40 hour range, which is more than a fair amount of time to sink into game like this.

[@optimchs1]

I mean this comment for anyone who might think the endgame looks cool and wants to try the interesting new content, not decade old flash garbage.

[@garcardosotan6172]

It is accurate, completely. Mainly cause he does first play impressions, and not veteran impressions. The first one was spot on from a new players perspective, and the second one made the game look worse. I love both.

[@lonerotmg3249]

The only difference is that isn’t isn’t only the new players experience that is shit… it all is, only the community deserves to be regarded highly. The game is a shell of its former self which began to fall off at least 5-6 years ago just before deca games took over. The devs are now just currently shitposting ptw content and I see no change coming in the future. It’s a miracle that the servers are even still up. It USED to be great… 9000+ hours on record and have played the game since it was released 12 years

[@xchickenx3479]

when i first started playing realm about half a year ago i just wandered around the nexus for 2 hours because i didn't know what to do, eventually i found the portals and went in but i immediately died because i teleported to glands. This made me put down tha game for a few months before i came back to it and now i understand everything that goes on in it and actually can have fun

[@TheCrappyZipper]

There is still some history to tell into the formula that drives intrinsic values.

[@MrEnArC]

Good on you for taking it on board and making this video. I've played the game and struggled with the same things you did and had to do A LOT of google searching to figure out what I was meant to be aiming for but could never get too deep into things playing solo. Good to see your perspective

[@scorcher_11]

The game gave you a horrible new player experience with no direction, Of course you would be more critical of it. While I think the original was fine albeit a little more aggressive than the normal video in this series there is no need to say you were wrong in my opinion. I do appreciate you holding yourself to a higher standard though and 1 video that you aren't happy with out of 100's is a great accomplishment. Be proud

[@Equinoksl]

I agree 100%. But this makes me even more curious why he never made a "was i wrong about..." video about Genshin Impact since he had quite a few things wrong in it. Yes in the end his opinion about the game probably wouldn't change that much but it would've been nice to see nonetheless.

[@peregrine3400]

@@EquinokslBecause videos take time. Imagine this is a show, he still has to make new content. In simpler words, there isn't enough time. Remember that he plays the games he reviews, so it takes time to make a new video and go through a new game. MMO's are particularly fat in content, so it's even more work.

[@thechugg4372]

I don't think it was that aggressive, and this entire series has always been about what a new player will experience, so I don't see why people didn't like the original video.

[@frozen3078]

​@@Equinoksl Aye, I agree with this. Not only Josh but most Genshin reviews done by non-Genshin players are usually filled with wrong information. I kinda do get why, Genshin really isn't a game made for people who could spend a lot of time in a single session. It has improved very slightly on it but it still has a lot of AR barriers. Increasing the AR depends a lot on comissions and spending resin. Exploring the massive world does help a lot but it also takes A LOT of time, which is great for those willing to play the game and enjoy it without rushes and simply play it over few weeks or months.

[@Sephiroso.]

Lol the only reason you think it was more aggressive than normal is because you're a rotmg andy.

[@giannipiccioni8411]

The video will be 2 seconds long, and he will say "No". And I say this as a person who enjoyed this game

[@lalaleyna2283]

As a person who frequently watches Josh's streams, I'd agree that this might be exactly what he's gonna do

[@dagbroad]

he got a bunch stuff wrong in his previous video so it'll probably be addressing that

[@TheWhiteagle99]

Man X)

[@Toadster115]

As someone who loved the game, that'd be funny and what the game deserves, but there were some things which were horribly wrong like soulbound items not being lost on death. It's a bad game yeah but that doesn't excuse objectively bad criticism

[@noukan42]

Much better, the video is 10 minutes long. No and then 9 minutes 58 seconds of rickrolling

[@eddiechen9968]

Loved this video. First started RotMG around 8 years ago cause all my friends were playing it at the time, but quickly lost interest since everyone else was well-established and simply "expected" me to figure it out while they ran mid-game dungeons, etc. Came back to this game on a whim a couple weeks ago, and I was only really able to "figure it out" after gear donations from random veteran players in the nexus and a vague memory of how to play. For new players, it can be hard to run any of the meaningful content without any gear/pots/pets etc, while the only way to get said gear is to run those very dungeons.

[@PR4D3R4]

I think it's at least understandable. You usually have bad times with bad games, but the video itself made clear that, for you, the experience wasn't that of rage or anger because something is awful: you were bored. ROTMG bored you. And it's ok. Sometimes, things like that happens. People that had actual good times with the game will be clear in pointing that out because they love(d) the game, that's also understandable. We like your content a lot and its only fair that you respond to it, so...Keep up the good work!

[@somerandomashellperson7130]

There used to be a nexus tutorial that guided new players through the nexus. I am not sure why they removed it, but if I remember it had to do with people bypassing the 85 player limit for the realms.

[@Donghua-clips]

I really appreciate you taking the time to make this updated video. I had just clicked off the prior video because it felt off in it's criticism of a game I have played, loved, and been frustrated with over the years. This video was immediately recommended to me, and I have to say you've done an amazing job this time around.

[@JamieDunbar]

Makes me immensely happy when someone on the Internet can openly admit to being wrong. You sir, have earned your 'like' :D

[@clray123]

When his own channel viewership is at stake, what is he supposed to do other than post fake apologies. Cancel culture etc.

[@JamieDunbar]

@@clray123 Wow, it's really sad that you're so cynical and jaded you don't know a legitimate apology when you see one. I was never going to play Mad God. I would never had known the initial video was sub-par if Josh hadn't said something himself. One mediocre video was never going to bring this channel down. This apology was a choice, not a requirement.

[@Dramn_]

@@JamieDunbar ^

[@altusshow7574]

I like how this video is "I'm sorry, my last video saying RotMG is bad, was wrong. In this new video I will correct myself by saying that RotMG is bad.". But in all honesty, this does show the integrity of Josh, and in today's industry we need voices we can trust. There seems to be less every year, and seeing Josh stand up with Jimquisition and Dunky is encouraging.

[@Mojomanmax]

Great job revisiting this one! This fixed most of the major issues with the previous video.

[@ThePibsss]

This unlocked a memory for me I played RotMG back in grade school (mid 2010s, it basically looked the same except the UI) and all I could remember was spending countless hours that never really amounted to anything. I come across this video and learned that there's wayyyy more to this game than I could intuitively figure out. Great review, explains why the game was such a struggle

[@LemurG]

Oh yeah, same here! It was only through the community and KZbinrs that I learned about all the fun stuff in the game.

[@HonorableAssassins]

Saaame

[@gusthompson]

I don’t like videos often but this one gets it from me! Thanks for going back and taking a closer look. Most realm players are painfully aware of the issues it has which is why you were able to get so much feedback from the player base about the issues it has. Been playing the game for 10 years now and I can’t imagine having to learn the game based on only the given materials 😬

[@timpind.8237]

one thing I can say about this game is that it has a great community of players. my favorite phenomenon that this game has is that people who go to higher-level areas will fill up their extremely limited inventory with decent gear that drops (and they don’t need/benefit from) and teleport back to the nexus just so they can drop the gear on the floor in spawn for others to collect. this is the mindset of the players. the part of RotMG that always gave me the most satisfaction is the solidarity shared among its players, and it’s a large part of what makes this game feel so good to play. still, it’s not very communicative to new players past the tutorial. the cash shop is incredibly pervasive, but it does at least tend to stay in one location in the world/on your screen and not jam itself into every other action you take in the game like some other games do

[@denniss.663]

I havent watched the first video since i stumbled upon this one but it really hits the nail on the head... ive "quit" the game for 2 years now, but back then i would probly spend like 10h on a good day just grinding away... and to be fair new players really dont get anything to guide them and u really needed someone who went through the pain of understanding every mechanic to pass it down... there is that "tipping point" in realm when u get hooked and where everything clicks... but the game slowly but surely lost its charm, be it by the whole discord raid culture or the event system that is currently holding this game on life support i dont see any effort given by deca to reform this game and it makes me somewhat sad P.S.: 10 year veteran of this rabbit hole of a game

[@CandidObserver]

So a little disclaimer before I write this: I do NOT play RotMG, I watched this video after the original, and I am a die-hard fan of Jo-SH. So admittedly, I didn't see "too" much of a problem with the other video but I do see what they meant now. This follow up video makes me an even bigger fan of Jo-SH and worth all the watch time that I give him! God bless you brother, keep making this great wholesome content! :)

[@deejayf69]

As somebody who racked up over 1800 hours in this game. Let me tell you it's a very specific kind of game. Watching this made me realize just how bad the on-boarding process is, even after so many years and changes in leadership/company I can't for the life of me sit down to play it anymore even though the last time I still genuinely played was when Deca ( the company who works on the game ) had the game in their possession for roughly 1-2 years. And ironically I enjoyed the time when RoTMG didn't receive any change at all more than when they were doing something with the game. Because Kabam, the previous owners of the game, introduced the Pet system the game became easier and thus dungeons were all possible to do solo. I quit mostly because I was very anti-change/disagreed with the direction the game was headed but also because the novelty wore off ( go figure 1.8k hours isn't exactly what you'd call "short time frame" ) I still log on for dailies because I have fond childhood memories playing this game. ( well that or I have Stockholm Idk. Damnit why did they have to design white bags to looks so god damn cool! it just reminds me of getting that poggers loot )

[@bloodwolf2609]

This video was much more enjoyable than the first, simply because he had all the correct information and the 'right' experience. I wasn't on board with everyone calling the first video 'lazy' but after seeing the re-review with a proper analysis I'm much happier with this version than the last. Well done :)

[@garcardosotan6172]

Showing that there is a 'right' way to play, but no one in the community waiting on new players showing that this doesn't work. He even said he sat at spawn, and watched multiple people load in with no idea what to do, so this doesn't work.

[@bloodwolf2609]

@@garcardosotan6172 I should've combined my comments but my other one says "I do think that some of the comments on the first video were aggressive but I appreciate that he took the time and effort to review them and RotMG again. Especially the segment about Pondguy, games like Warframe for example, really only benefit from having a full anecdotal experience from a high level player that can help you wherever you get stuck, whereas if you dont have the high experience player to ask questions, like he said, new players just uninstall it's really that simple." So yeah same thing.

[@PersonCalledErin]

I'll post it here again; As someone who has spent over 2300 hours on this game. Don't play it. Don't support the company. Been friends with people who worked on the game, am currently friends with someone who USED to work on the game, and more or less the same applies, most people with any passion either lost their passion or moved on to better things. The executives behind it are milking it like no tomorrow, raking in millions and making themselves rich, while the people who were/are producing content are doing so on an un-contracted volunteer basis, taking advantage of newer artists who are younger and often naive or unknowing. Those who worked for them for a while stopped eventually because the "payment" of ingame items you can lose anyway, heavily belated credits and overall "meh" treatment just really aren't enough to justify producing profit for a bunch of rich people who know barely anything about the game they're not even making content for themselves. I'm friends with a person who was among the few who were... actually paid and employed, that person soon moved on for own personal reasons but I can pretty confidently say, it's not great. (I also had SOME connections to people including the Main developer of most Endgame content. So. Yeah. I saw a lot of the issues with perspectives from the top down in some cases) There was a large fiasco regarding the OST; being produced by two Producers. One, WangeLine, who later moved on and openly explained what happened on the game's official subreddit. And one other who seemed to be fine with the treatment they had received. Basically, the same situation as with most others, advantage taken of young newcomers to certain forms of art. The forms of payment were not up to boot and a lot of people (who really didn't have any clue what they were talking about) were blaming Line, for it was "her fault" for accepting the contract, when in reality they were defending the rich leeches who could easily have paid a decent (industry standard) wage, but chose not to. The nail in the coffin was when there was a lack of communication, or clarification in which things that were absolutely possible for the sake of improving the game, were denied, despite Line being perfectly willing to work on them with lots of experience in the production of those features, moving on to one of the few things Line was supposed to receive, Credit in the game, not being added properly until after Line had already resigned. (the aftermath was that Line said she didn't care if they kept using the music so long as her credit stayed, I believe The other composer seemingly had a better experience or didnt have the same issues, but judging by the entire UGC (User Generated Content) group, and how its cycle boiled down to people joining, making art, getting experienced, realizing they are being exploited, and quitting, I'd say the norm was not a pleasant experience. The absolute best treatment I had heard of was from the Aforementioned friend, one of the longest working members who had actually been officially employed and paid... Such a high standard, no? And they of course left after a while, wanting to actually move on and do more with their art. Most people slaving away for the company were and are unsatisfied, unpaid, not well treated, not given even enough freedom to compensate, or anything else. Not sure if that has or will ever change. The company behind ROTMG (whom are knowledgeable particularly in the field of P2W mobile games) specializes in squeezing as much money out of a game which had already been squeezed for all it was worth, with the promise of "reviving it", by relying on Volunteers and Naive young artists producing content for them (most of which is heavily drawn out and delayed, or used for overplayed events that force you to login daily and AFK until someone spends money for a group of strangers, buying keys), for either no real compensation or extremely underpaid. While their profit reports smash records in the millions, spread across the few higher ranking individuals who operate it. I was addicted for a long time for it's permadeath roguelike high risk high reward nature. But all the plundering of the game done by several companies, as well as the most fun content they had added which I had experienced (Oryx 3) being heavily gated and unfun to access for the majority of players, while the main mass of "content" was the boring time sink of leveling and maxing characters whenever they die, made me finally put the nail in the coffin and quit. Don't waste your time, on this game. Thanks

[@Jepegish]

Well said. It pains me to say but I doubt I'll EVER "enjoy" the game again. The game's lost its charm with all these fucking discord runs and "metas". It's just not fun anymore.

[@jorionedwards]

This debacle was the main reason I left the game besides the repetitive and demoralizing game play. By the time more recent updates hit which did vastly improve the game in making skill actually matter, it a too little too late.

[@ivandagiant]

There is a lot wrong with the game, but the whole WangleLine debacle was all on her. Spave has no issues what’s so ever. Wangle declines the contract and changed her mind later expecting to get paid. That’s just delusional

[@ShmittyRotF]

Absolutely true

[@yanhuideng8263]

That's not even close to an accurate recap of what happened in the whole composer drama. Disappointing, because you ignore the later developments that literally exposed Wanglelines dishonesty.

[@kerianhalcyon2769]

I'm glad this video was "I'm apologizing for the low quality of my critique, here's a higher quality, in-depth look at what I missed" versus what I thought it was, which was "I'm now finally being held hostage by an MMO's community to rescind what I said earlier on pain of death, here's an apology." Good video.

[@robintst]

I maintain my ongoing respect for you to admit when you've made a mistake, Josh. I've never played this game but it's only fair it get an honest critique and shout out to their community for stepping in to help.

[@MDTako]

An important question: would the community be so quick and willing to help a new player who didn't make a youtube video and have a their own reddit or discord? If Joe Nobody downloaded and made a character, would the community contact him directly and give him the tips and tricks to get the most out of the game?

[@JakeOunce]

We try to be extremely helpful and open to new players from my experience! I mean would the outreach be as massive as what Josh experienced, probably not. But you would still have at least a couple players trying to help! That being said, I don't think many experienced players are actively trying to recruit new players. Most of us wouldn't wish this kind of a new player experience on anyone.

[@redking36]

Sort of. I think it’s happened to me before. People will give you items though, usually without you even asking.

[@KezJUNGLIST]

yes, the most dedicated players in my guild were at one point new players that i invited to help them out, once you have maxed out every class you don't need any of the tradable items so they just get traded to people who are struggling.

[@nostopit179]

Yes, I’ve helped many people on my own and ran a guild for years that was explicitly targeted at new players so they would have higher level people to help them out.

[@coflechsig]

Absolutely. As someone who has spent far too much time in realm, most of my favorite memories were running early/mid game dungeons with new strangers just picking up the game, and giving them a taste of the fun you can have. The community is OVERWHELMLINGLY positive, and this is due to the fact that 0 part of the game is pitting you vs other players. The game is meant to be played alongside others, and literally it is the more the merrier. Increasing people in your party doesn't change loot, and actually makes the game more fun.

[@_.Jays_Life._]

Josh, you earned a passionate sub here man. I watched your ROTMG vids because I actually just got back into it. It’s definitely not a game for all, it’s a hard, angering, and grindy game. I like it for simple nostalgia and am completely comfortable saying so, as well as I enjoy hardship in games, as it means that I have to be genuinely GOOD at the game. I did want to tell you though that in the shops you can use fame (an in game currency earned by playing) the P2W players are real, like many games, however, I have no problem spending maybe an hour to grind a character to lvl 20 and get my unlocks and later go back to grow even more later. Also, all people who get the game on steam at least can get a free “welcome bundle” with 3 eggs, another vault slot, and many other goodies to welcome you in. I agree with your statement of “realm is more of a community than a game” I also enjoy Entropia universe, and I can simply say I am attracted to the games where you have to learn from each other. It’s dire for lonely people, but encourages social interaction, which I appreciate personally. I have no complaints with your criticism on the game, as almost any person who plays will tell you the problems, it’s simply the devs. There are other games growing to meet ROTMG and hopefully overtake them in the rogue like space. Daria is a good example. I am excited to get back to the days where games where plentiful and fun, as it’s been a little boring recently, but I do truly enjoy my time in ROTMG as of now and would encourage only to people who can handle the grind. Sub like your way buddy, I appreciate the great content.

[@0Kinn]

Well this is interesting, since i was a new player to this game but i didnt play it much. Because right as i started and got into nexus, I was teleported to fight the mad god right away as a level 1. So thats why i just left the game, it was confusing and i died without able to go anywhere. But now I'll try it again because of this video and try to talk to the commumity. Thx josh.

[@benpark5074]

Good luck mate. I’ve been playing on and off for around 9 years and it’s very much a game that you take on in hour-long increments. Also, you’re going to die a LOT. Learn and improve, and know that nothing is unbeatable. Hope you enjoy

[@0Kinn]

@@benpark5074 thx man.

[@granicade8768]

If you can set yourself small goal that basically tells you, that you have learned from your deaths. Thats amazing progress. Im still learning the game and the mechanics of some bosses and dungeons. And ive been playing for about a year and a half.

[@whatareyoudoingthis4]

Look up Darza's Dominion and Beneath the Nexus. Fan takes of this game that look insanely promising.

[@xrefed]

@@granicade8768 theres boss mechanics? Isnt it just dodge?

[@Nerobyrne]

major props to them for having the absolute BALLS to sell you lootboxes and then just take those items back when you die. That actually disincentivises lootbox purchases.

[@bobjhon9914]

But that is the game. The individual knows that the items they are buying will be lost in time given playtime on those characters, (every char has a lifespan if played on, always) you deserve to waste your money if you think buying items is a good long term investment regardless of playtime, spare niches like meeting hardcore raid reqs for more efficiency

[@Nerobyrne]

@@bobjhon9914 good job on making a pointless comment

[@b4krr]

Your first video of this gameis uniquely valuable for game devs actually.its the walkthroughless, wiki-less, backseatless experience From A huge mmo expert or connoisseur at least (roguelike aside). 7-8 hours per opinion piece is extremely fair. it's obvious that the player isn't given enough adventure line or drive to continue to the features you werent even really made aware of.

[@Champion_14]

As a guy who has been playing realm for a decade, i didn't think your first video was unfair. A little overly critical? Maybe, but a lot of that is the fault of the game itself. I appreciate your level of commitment to making good content though, that takes a lot of integrity and i welcome a more nuanced take on the game that this video gave.

[@loftyz477]

I thought even the first video was very fair. what % of new players discover pets? probably 30%. what % of players reach level 20 without quitting first? probably 10%. Josh just fell into these 2 categories. I probably would too, because there’s no communicated reason to think the gameplay will fundamentally change after your level reaches some arbitrary number.

[@thezonic27]

Wonderful review, ive played realm for 9 years and i never realized how unintuitive having a massive useless open world is. The gap between new and old players has increased thought because when the initial systems where intorduced, pets did not exist and what is now just middle game content was considered the end game. The weird thing is the main goal of the game is not actually to get to max level, rather to max out your stats individual via stat potions up to a specified maximum for each class.

[@Delantho]

i would argue the main goal is to acquire the skills to reliably complete every dungeon with every class

[@unknowncompany4479]

Been playing this game since back when it was a flash game on the browser. It was vary difficult to get into, and unfortunately the best way to get into it, is after dropping about 10 bucks for an additional character slot and vault space. Fortunately, char slots and additional storage space such as, vault space and potion stash slots is now available in things like event rewards, daily login bonuses, and the battle pass.

[@zport1853]

10:30 this is the core reason as to why the game is fun. the private servers created by players of the game are astounding. the passion of the community and the camaraderie is what makes this game so fun to play. that's not to say it isn't fundamentally flawed as a base game but the depth of community works and of the playerbase's open arms should in my opinion be part of the decision of whether or not the game is any good.

[@raccoonbiceps9613]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned private servers until I found your comment, that's where the fun is at, no pet systems, new & faster content and way to progress.

[@zport1853]

@@raccoonbiceps9613 or maybe even.... better pet systems.

[@IDontKnow-zr2jo]

Humanoid eggs have a guaranteed chance to have heal as their first ability, making those a bit easier to snipe magic heal as your secondary.

[@Delantho]

also there is very often login rewards of humanoid eggs

[@plumberpool]

I just stumbled across your videos a couple of weeks ago and I've been periodically watching them but this video right here has earned you a fan for sure you have my utmost respect

[@pinobeppo9287]

Wow! Looking forward to this one. I put some time into this game and stopped after its studio was acquired by Kabam. I honestly liked it at the time the P2W was not that bad. Then as usual with these games the P2W unbalance got worse and worse after every update. Josh previous video was very fair in my opinion, to be fair there is a little bit more structure in the progression/content than he covered, but not that much. Curious to see what he will add .

[@killerluuk]

Josh does catch me as someone whom finds it hard to take critique especially during streams. Very manly and mature to re-review your own work. Stay critical Josh. You're an amazing content creator.

[@NeiasaurusCreations]

I think its more how people act towards him on stream. Like the 'tera incident', where he was basically blamed for killing tera...Despite it already being dead lol.

[@Dramn_]

@@NeiasaurusCreations LOL they blamed him for Tera? Jesus

[@NeiasaurusCreations]

@@Dramn_ Yes, that was a real thing. You can find the clip of it lol.

[@chrismanuel9768]

TERA. An MMO I played for about three hours before realizing it was full of pedophiles. Everyone was a child character in a bikini with names like Daddy's Girl or Lil Missy or Bad Girl. I uninstalled it and told everyone else to keep away from the kiddy fucker MMO. Not surprised it's dead. I'm only surprised the developers aren't in prison

[@NeiasaurusCreations]

@@chrismanuel9768 There were a few too many of those. But there was also people who hated how elins were handled. I myself hated it, especially because the reaper class was fun. In the NA version they actually toned down the elin outfits, at least the armor ones. So you could pretty safely use the armor.

[@SunnyAznable]

I’ve been watching this channel quite a lot lately over the last month and I think it speaks volumes of the quality of content and the character of Josh that since this video his number of bosses has increased by 271,000, which is technically a massive demotion but definitely a sign I have been recommended a channel that is not only popular but truly has integrity. It’s shown time and again, and so I’m here to stay. Many thanks and long may your good work continue.

[@terryperaltta1987]

Wow this is rare. A youtuber owning up to a few mistakes and a community being some what diplomatic. This felt real and well done, love to see it. Nice work JSh.

[@Pomodorosan]

It's always crazy to me how the game was made as part of the Assemblee competition in 2009, and the dev took the game to steam and started making bank on sprites that were made by someone else. Dungeons of Fayte and Great Dungeon in the sky were my favorite.

[@MareSerenitis]

When I played Realm, it was just a Flash game. The shop existed, but it was something you had to go and find in the nexus - the main room was just a spawn point, a couple of fountains and world entrances. Pets didn't exist, permanent stat boosts didn't exist, there was no clutter all over the screen, and while there was only 1 piece of background music, it was both good and fitting. Aside from the complete lack of caring about new players, the core game is fine. But the way all the various parts work together mean it's basically impossible to progress beyond a certain point without either having a huge amount of skill already, or being part of a massive group and somehow managing to not die in the confusion. When I played I was lucky if I ever saw more than 2 or 3 other people at a time who all ran off instanly to various high level things I couldn't handle, so I had to play solo. The few times I did get involved in a group I inevitably died because I couldn't tell what was going on. And I abandoned it because it's basically inpenetrable for a new solo player.

[@mysteretsym]

This game is extremely addicting when you get into it. Yes, it’s pay to win as shit, but things have gotten better than they were. And you can get by without paying, and if you do end up paying you can always find a good deal on character slots or vault space for only like 10 bucks. If not, there are typically events which allow you to get free character slots and vault slots

[@jungyo8417]

i dont see how its pay to win at all. im 4/8 with a rare pet with the 3 best abilities in game. played 3 days. if u dont suck u can just get fame

[@tydy5266]

@@jungyo8417 It's significantly easier when you spend money

[@quack3891]

​@@jungyo8417 magic heal and heal both get exponentially better the closer to 100 you get, and It IS p2w. Arguing otherwise is the same argument for BDO, LA, or Diablo Immortals. Just because you can "eventually" attain the goal, doesn't mean that it is a feasible definition for p2w. Necessarily p2w doesn't extend from access at all but instead from ease of access. Yes, you can theoretically f2p in LA and get to the end content in 3 months at half the power compared to a whale who could do it in a couple of weeks with twice the power you would end up with. It's just that people have mutilated their definition of p2w over the years because they became comfortable with knowing that every game in some form will engage with it. Warframe is a good example, where it IS p2w but the player base does not consider it egregious since it stokes the economy of the game and is necessarily "not a direct transfer to better gear". Despite it being a very obvious standpoint of WoW p2w standard of WoW and OSRS money to power transfer. It is not direct, but through it's economy, and even then when you interact with it, you still gain power much faster than your f2p peers.