Reappropriating Feminism, Maternity, and the Woman’s Role | Mary Harrington | EP 466

[@itsHeatherKay]

As a stay at home mom, when many friends were not, I ended up being the person everyone almost expected would help them during the day with babysitting, emergency errands or such, because they saw me as not busy. For stay at home moms, we end up bearing the weight of several families on our backs in surprising ways. I’m the only one who brings a homemade dish to events when others have bought some processed cookies or snacks from the deli. Women in the workforce means less physical and emotional care to go around. I recently made cupcakes for a birthday for an adult who saved the cupcake on the corner of their desk just to enjoy it for a few days, since it was the first homemade thing someone had given them in years. That was devastating to me. Women’s work is essential to everyone’s health. I wish everybody had more personalized care… including me, honestly. It’s been a lonely 20+ years for me since we move often, and finding moms that live like me is hard. People often tell me I’m the best cook they know (I’m average). The truth is I’m one of the only cooks they know. I feel like stay at home moms are often doing the matriarch role as they are raising their kiddos.

[@kariepw6792]

I stayed home with my kids when they were younger and packed their lunch for many years. I used to put 2 cookies in their lunch. One for them and one for a friend because many of their friends did not get homemade food very often.

[@michellemariejanewalsh5302]

I agree with you completely but an opposite extre examples I've known a couple of toxic just two of this example so clearly it's not wide spread. They both claimed they had the job of being stay at home mothers however all there children were in school the bulk of the day they were child free they both did barely anything to help around the house while their husbands worked using be stay at home mother was a hard job therefore they didn't have the time to do an of that and one even went as far as saying her husband needed to do more to help out which he worked so much that he was basically a wage slave and barely ever saw the children. On his days off he was always working on the yard and the house for both maintenance and to increase the value of the property he barely had a moment off and he still needed to do more. He also packed the kids lunches for every morning she got then up drove them to school than sat on instergram all day. Then picked up the kids largely ignored them and mostly continued with her phone then cooked dinner ever night which was some processed deep fried every night. One child was significantly obese and the other was under weight she didn't eat any of her meals and usually opped for drinking her soy milk over time it became more and more clear the underweight one had RAFED which is a eating disorder that develops in children adults never develop it however adults can have it if they had it as a child and never received treatment. She had no real concern for either weight situations unfortunately both her children while died before her due to extreme eat problems from very young age that was maintained and enabled by their mother. She was actually quiet a nasty piece of work but I won't go into that. She wasn't busy at all and spent majority of her time on social media particularly instagram and the children suffered from her choices and her husband suffer for her choices. And she constantly used being a a stay a home mother was hard work ad more so an excuse or a claim to manipulate personal gain. The other woman not as toxic but same in fact all her children are fully grown with the youngest 38 married with three children. And it's hard being a stay at home mother more so free loading stay at home wife that filled an entire room with home made rustic dolls coz she needed a hobby to fill in her time define how flat out and hard working she was. When one of her adult son became intangled with the law she used it as an excuse for her husband to pay for her to get a lawyers degree and a woman's studies degree DOD she use it help her tone the very excuse she got it nope did she ever use it all not never got a job ever or particated in volunteer work. She just used her sons negative situation as an excuse to get free education that was just to get fancy paper and nothing more. However her husband ended getting cancer and continued with servere ill health so she moved them into her daughters home for her daughter look after then including financial coz I she owed her mother that as if it wasn't for her mother she never would have gone to university and maintained I high power job which she juggles with raising two boys but her mother encourage only her single daughter to go do that education and career path and if it wasn't for her mother she wouldn't have the luxury for their high incomes they don't really get to enjoy because they're busy working or busy raising two boys and trying juggle the two together. So now the daughter pays for her mother to continue being spoilt stay at home wife getting and doing whatever she wants at others expense coz she work really hard for a long time as stay at home mother and some of that wasn't stay at home mother any more and simply stay at home wife also I've never known her and her husband to share the bed together. She allows slept in the and he always slept on the couch in all these decades I've never known them to share a bed together once. Though those are only two example this is highly likely because they are a minority. But I want to share these to examples to be ware that someone may illegitimately claim hard working stay at home mother when they're and is both an excuse and manipulation tool. And they hide very well under it that majority around then are completely fooled by it in fact the first example had a friend circle that include actually hard working stay at home mothers and they were also completely fooled by it.

[@marywiggins7411]

​@michellemariejanewalsh5302 Wow, how intuitive of you to figure it all out!

[@michellemariejanewalsh5302]

@marywiggins7411 no I directly saw it. It's called observation.

[@michellemariejanewalsh5302]

@marywiggins7411 what where you even trying to state. I saw it all dorectly first hand. Sorry physical observed facts has nothing in the slightest to do with what you said it just sounds retdd.

[@wisdomandy9361]

I've never seen Jordan remain this quiet so for long before. Fascinating

[@go2therock]

I know! I just sent this to my family: You know how Jordan Peterson always hogs the mic in his interviews? Remember I recommended Mary Harrington's conversation with him? She reminds me of my friend, Marian. Well, I'm 32 min in on this... and not this time, JP. 😅

[@erakordnesuhe]

i have never seen him fighting with himselt to keep eyes open!

[@seriousoldman8997]

​@@erakordnesuheBless your heart.

[@chaseoneill2965]

It's refreshing to see her perspective, I think many would agree, especially if they also have multi-generational influences to compared to our modern society. She beautifully articulates her arguments, recognizes potential gaps, doesn't conflate empty talking points with merit-based debate, she flushes out her arguments with great detail and without mincing words, belaboring points or being repetitive, and she delivers a clear and cohesive narrative. She is not combative, she resonates as being sincere, she embodies both agreeableness and strength, and she is able to separate what she feels is important to defend and what she believes is destructive to her cause disguised in a thin facade of strength and liberation, despite how the one's who will undoubtedly attack her for saying so. In the modern day of bad faith debate and toxic out of context sound bite harvesting, rage porn and flame fanning, she was so very refreshing to listen to, and I believe that Jordan was equally enjoying a refreshing conversation with someone who is actually solution oriented instead of the usual accusatory, toxic, self serving, deceitful and propagandistic interactions he has had to endure trying to make sane headway in the areas of feminism and having to dismantle and debunk the notion that we live in a tyrannical patriarchal hierarchy, that equal opportunity is superior to equal outcome by an order of magnitude, or pulling statistic after statistic showing that men are worse off in a staggering number of metrics such as imprisonment, successful suicide rate, etc, time after time and by the end of those interviews, the one hosting the interview typically has run out the clock and no real progress was made, no collaboration on a pragmatic solution was allowed to be made, and those interviewers typically are racing off to their social media teams to chop it up into sound bites for Facebook reels, KZbin shorts and Tik Tok videos. I believe that Jordan would have respected respected her tremendously without his previous history of the above, but I imagine that he respects her much more because she doesn't hide behind talking points but rather can actually defend herself and her ideas clearly and succinctly. I thoroughly enjoyed this talk

[@Ryan-vi1tu]

When someone is helping your argument, you never stop them

[@esm1817]

I love the "matron" stage. I'm not there yet, but so many times as a young mom I've beem rescued by older members of the community who do exactly as Mary's said: tell me I'm doing fine, offer to hold my child for a second so I can do something, and just generally be loving when instead they could choose to be grouchy and disengaged or disillusioned. Older women (and caring, compassionate older men, too) can really be a blessing for their whole communities!

[@CMVBrielman]

I’m a dad, and I can see how invaluable that is to my wife when someone can step in and give both of us a break. I appreciate it, but she *needs* it.

[@markyehlen243]

@@CMVBrielmanan official 😂 I😂😂 🎉😂😢 No okokoknw🎉🎉😂 to t try třthis re🎉 s a great day🎉 r

[@davecampbell9803]

I completely agree. ​@@CMVBrielman

[@janellekilroy2008]

I was thinking the same thing!

[@tammiewalker5156]

It’s a hard stage to get your mind around. Society basically throws women aside at about 40. I am 57 with that being said you realize just how a majority of women’s lives we are “objects” I love to share my wisdom with younger women not by telling them what to do but sharing my journey. God is key❤️having him and being accountable to him has saved me in my most difficult times in my life

[@AmberMcAvey]

Sit down, folks, for a master class from the brilliant Mary Harrington. She spoke for 22 minutes straight out the gate, and I'm here for it!❤❤❤

[@marquisreed1797]

I’m not tuned in for a conversation got a monologue. Has any other guest ever been allowed to ramble this long?

[@ScottlandShaffner0423]

AMAZING!

[@gregbatchelor9205]

IMO It's refreshing to have a guest that makes JP actually stay quiet for a few moments. And the stuff she's saying is genuinely interesting.

[@marquisreed1797]

@@gregbatchelor9205 not really as for 1 it’s long winded and could be summarized. Two she’s describing history but gives no dates, artifacts, or people throughout this entire monologue. Lastly she pretty much is espousing the same oppressor oppressed narrative account that feminist gave of the past.

[@jrd33]

Never heard JP be silent for so long in an interview!

[@hckyplyr9285]

My wife is the mother of 7 children. She was a registered professional engineer in three states prior to having children. She gave up a great deal but now never wants to work again. When our kids are all grown she wants to help others, especially young mothers. She is already doing so. Thus maiden, mother, matriarch.

[@AW-it1gc]

good for her, but why on earth would any woman put herself through having seven kids is beyond me!

[@Jdawn92]

I don’t want to work more than part time and I don’t even have kids

[@hckyplyr9285]

@AW-it1gc Religious conviction, and family history. She was #8 of nine. Her recently deceased father had 67 grandchildren.

[@midmomom2490]

@@AW-it1gcwow!! You’re a bot or either a feeling less human…what a callous remark!

[@aseneth43]

​​​Why would any woman...? If this question is being asked in earnest and not merely rhetorically, I recommend the book Hannah's Children: Women Quietly Defying the Birth Dearth. (I have 2 sisters and we have 23 children between us, with 2 on the way. All three of us are happy with our choice.)

[@ingridcope3323]

I treasure marriage and motherhood. I stayed at home during my children's formative years and worked around their Kindergarten hours, worked nigbts while hubby worked days, so one of us was always home. Yes we sacrificed financially, but we had so many hours of visiting the library, exploring the outdoors, creativity...and modelling good old fashioned values, respecting the strengths both men and women have.❤

[@toniduval4350]

What differences do you think manifested in your home by 'ensuring a parent was always at home with the kids' that you think do not (or has less of an opportunity to) manifest in families where both parents are working full time jobs? Speaking from personal experience, my sister and I had three parents (my mom and dad divorced when we were toddlers, my mom got into a relationship with my stepdad within a year or two of divorcing my dad, and all three adults worked very hard to remain united and very involved on the parental front right through to my sister and I becoming adults). They all worked full-time jobs, and as such didn't notice my younger sister had no idea of how to read by the time she was in 3rd grade, until one of her teachers pointed it out. By contrast, as a stay at home mother I know exactly which letters of the alphabet my 5 year old can identify by name and phonetics along with those she is struggling with, and I know which words she can spell from memory and which she can spell by sounding out. Because of my time spent with my 5 year old, it is very unlikely that she will be illiterate by the time she reaches 3rd grade, unlike my sister who slipped through the cracks in a large part because the adults in her life assumed someone in the group of many candidates (my mom, my dad, my stepdad, the teachers, etc) had taken on the responsibility of teaching her to read. While I have understood the theory of how an involved parent is more beneficial to the life of their child, I would like to hear some practical examples. Do you have any that you would mind sharing?

[@kandilula]

​@@toniduval4350I also stayed at home, we had a policy that our children would only ever be looked after by people who loved them (this included very involved grandparents.) I was able to be involved in their school through the P&C (PTA) and they knew there was always someone there who loved them. They are now 20yo and we are all very close and can claim a level of honesty and shared interests and fun that I do not think possible if we had been mostly absent from their childhood.

[@alenaadamkova5322]

M. Pelz said some lady couldnt get pregnant for several years it could be because of the birth control pills, but also the stress. As she told her the tips, how to avoid the stress, and other things, she became pregnant within one month. Human body developed by exercising in nature , it oincrease the immuniyt of teh body, not be in constant stress. Expert M.Pelz explained many women have altered hormonal cycle, because of 20, 30 years of birth control pills....the pills affect women´s health and microibiom in guts and also causes depression, because it affects the production of serotonin as her microbiom changes, so it affects womens moods....... If men would take similar birth control pills it would affect their testosterone and sperm quality and mental state and microbiom in body....so the men would refuse such pills. If women start using the pills month after first period, her body dosent get the chance to adopt the natural period with natural hormonal cycle. So it will alter her health 40 years later in menopause she may had many hormonal problems. But society decided to make this decision on women without explaning them the side effects. She exlained there a rec 6 factors women should follow to have abundance in her hormonal balance and realtionships. Fasting, exercise, food , etc. but in different times of the period. Its interesting. Because during the natural hormonal perriod the boyd is cleansing itself fromw aste, so maybe her mind is also cleansing itself...So its normal that men and women have bad mood sometimes, because the mind and body is cleansing itself. and its about the hormonal balnce in body. People should dos sports and expercise or do meditation.

[@Amy-fk5we]

@@toniduval4350 As a teacher who teaches primary school, I can 100% tell who has good stay at home moms or dads. I say that because some kids have terrible parents on welfare (by choice) who stay home and don’t take good care of the kids. It kids who are always home with a parent, avoid daycare and have supportive parents are usually more emotionally, socially and academically advanced than other kids. They usually have more life experience and manners. Daycare doesn’t teach kids much, I know, I worked in them during my university years. The kids just play all day and aren’t nurtured by workers. Some parents who work full time and that are amazing parents can give their kids their best and it shows, but never at the same level than stay at home parents. Parents can only be over extended so much with work and just life in general. Those kids will do okay, but they would do better with a parent at home because the parents aren’t as exhausted. It really comes down to that. There is so much more to say but I just encourage parents to do their best, no matter what their situation is.

[@carolinereuter7924]

​@@toniduval4350 I would say, mainly paying focused attention to the child daily. This would also correspond to your experience. It's a great thing that you've learned from your childhood experience and put into practice the opposite. Lots of love and keep it up!❤

[@NettyB]

Some takeaways: 1. Fleeing from responsibility and sacrifice demolishes meaning 2. Adopting a heroic mode of being is beneficial 3. Women can uniquely tame the brutish 4. Woman and infant as a unit is fundamental to their identity (which our society no longer holds sacred) 5. Modern motherhood is lonely because of a frayed civil society (women largely stay in the workforce) 6. Maiden, Mother, & Matron (latter are backbone of social fabric) 7. Abortion en masse is a travesty 8. Sexual freedom promotes r-type, dark triad men and further damages male/female relationships 9. Progress is largely a hedonistic project aimed at circumventing nature and moral order 10. Birth control was maybe one of the first transhumanist innovations 11. Accepting your fate, whatever it may be, makes it easier to endure it Thank you Dr. Peterson & Mrs. Harrington!!

[@ERH-ph5gb]

Thank you. That was kind to put here into the comments.

[@Readabookfoofoo]

Well done

[@michellemariejanewalsh5302]

Thanks so much for that effort I find it highly beneficial thanks again for the time and effort.

[@citytrees1752]

1. The Industrial Revolution is the source of many modern social problems because it made humans into units of production instead of people who need each other. It changed the identities of both men and women - made competition a man's focus instead of family. It took away purposeful production from women in the home and turned them into consumers. It fragmented homes and halted the way men and women had worked side-by-side for the good of their families.

[@verycurious23]

Well done,thank you❤

[@bethanyshipman2310]

I am one of the outlier women (childfree, soldier, leader at work) but I really love this conversation. For anyone feeling attacked by this I would say why? Most people find fulfillment and purpose through their children. My calling is a little different. Still sacrifice, mentorship, caring for others, but in a different capacity and that’s alright! We do need to support mothers because I know I could never do that job.

[@NgaTran-ex7pi]

Love this sentiment/comment as i have seen the animosity between child free women and mothers all too much (from both sides!).

[@jacquelinehowe2041]

I have been following Mary for some time and Im gleeful that you had her on your show because it will expose her message to a wider audience. The world needs to hear the eloquent way she communicates the facets of womanhood and the harms of modernity upon the roles of men and women. She in fact is a true feminist who is fighting for the truest form of the well being of women which looks much different than what modern culture persuades women towards. It was a fascinating discussion between the two of you. Thanks so much!

[@gregbatchelor9205]

This woman is amazing, I've never heard someone describe and expound so clearly and in such detail the nuanced issues directly related to the issue of abortion, in the light of the 'pro-care / pro-freedom' perspectives of historical feminism. Bravo, madame 👏🏻👏🏻

[@ULEFOFANTULEFOFANT]

I second this comment

[@pomtubes1205]

Wow. That is the LONGEST time I heard someone speak on this podcast without interruption. I'm also a fan of his work btw

[@Meyer-gp7nq]

She had some very interesting and intelligent things to say. For a women /s

[@marquisreed1797]

Sadly

[@anynimus1617]

OMG, I was looking at the clock and thinking well over 20 minutes and he still hasn't interrupted? Hahaha, funny to see I wasn't the only one noticing this.

[@hees0009]

I think he must have read the comments on the Elon Musk interview and took note.

[@yakinimoseley6792]

I did notice that myself. I hope he keeps that style because I’m not a manic, and am horrible at focus, so really can’t keep track of many topics.

[@alexandraiacob8359]

Love Mary. No matter how many interviews I see with her she always gives me something to think about

[@patriciachilds6725]

I am 73 and I have found my feminist home in this woman. Thank you!!!

[@thealphahuman5465]

The single most impressive guest I’ve heard Jordan interview. All class and so well spoken. Pushes back against him when needed and pulls apart Jordan’s logic at times to find an amazing middle ground. A brilliantly delivered back and forward discussion. Bravo.

[@autumnleaves2766]

Another superb discussion, Mary Harrington is an excellent speaker. I liked the fact that she talked about that group of women in their 50s to 70s who do so much work in their communities, once their own children have flown the nest. That is what I have observed too, and we should also remember that many women in the 50 to 70 age group will have elderly parent/s to look after. I can attest to the pitfalls and serial failures of dating, whether it was in the old days of adverts placed in newspapers and magazines or the online dating of the last 25 years or so. There's also been the tendency for governments to want women to get straight back to work after having their children, the mothers are seen as economically unproductive if they stay at home, I'd say they are even demonised in some quarters.

[@wisdomandy9361]

But we're at a place now where there's an increasing amount of 50-70 year old woman with no children.

[@kaitlynp821]

She has incredible thoughts but is definitely a circle talker to her point

[@pattyhansen7563]

They certainly are demonized. I have a young acquaintance who stays home with her 2 young children. Her MIL just told her that she is "placing an unfair burden on HER son" by staying home & 'making' him the sole breadwinner. It was her son's decision for his wife to stay home. My own MIL kept bringing me job applications & told me I was making it hard on her son. Many of the women in the 60-75 yo age category are witches to you if you want to stay home. I started a women's group at my church. Out about 15 women ranging in age 44 - late 70s, I am the only one who stays home. even the older ones are still working. I have been told that I don't 'contribute anything to the household, only cooking & cleaning' by a woman who doesn't cook or clean for her family. I have been labelled as 'nuts' & I get told all the time that other women would go crazy if they had to be with their kids all the time. Its a bad look for a culture, if mothers can't stand their kids

[@dahliaherrod4301]

​@@wisdomandy9361yeah they're still valuable to society. I would say more so because they don't have an allegiance to family that takes up their time. Childless women can do A LOT, especially when they're older with more experience under their belt

[@RaffieFaffie]

@@dahliaherrod4301 What the hell didn't we speak in another comment section under some other video like two days and now I find you here

[@Swede2of3]

This woman is bursting with so much information. I'm going to have to listen to this three times to catch it all. My thanks to you ma'am and Jordan, for yet another Viewpoint to see the beauty of motherhood from. As a father of six, I admire my wife for being so focused on her task as if it were nothing at all. She is so in her element I can only watch in wonder and know there is a God.

[@corriemooney9812]

Mary is awesome. You’ve found a goldmine. Keep digging- she has lots of stuff!

[@jacquelineandrea8172]

It's wonderful being a women. Motherhood is a gift and should never be looked upon by anyone, especially women as an position of lesser freedom or importance.

[@epicplanetaryfaceplant]

@@jacquelineandrea8172 Freedom is a deceptive good which many seek as a fraudulent cage which they believe has not led them into the paralyzing expanse. Motherhood is not about freedom or importance, and neither is marriage. The good in both motherhood and marriage - but also fatherhood as well - are the limitations to which shape and apply an individual for a necessary objective/goal.

[@grannyannie2948]

The only people who ever looked down on me as a stay at home mum, were childless, unmarried women in middle management

[@CoperliteConsumer]

It's the single most important aspect of any biological organism ever. It's immortality achieved and only the woman can truly decide how it turns out. How could a society do anything other than revere the mother? How twisted we have become

[@CC-xn5xi]

When you got divorced, you needed money and a job.​@@grannyannie2948

[@inotaarto8719]

Imagine a world where goverments would pay a professional salary to mothers.

[@justmbhman]

With the announcement of Peterson Academy, his Joe Rogan appearance, and this new podcast, Jordan's on a roll 😂

[@grannyannie2948]

Mary is great too

[@arabaeight8172]

Woke us to all these goodies… and my day is made😄

[@valindaomoruyi1079]

And Interview with Elon Musk

[@MrGflan]

@@arabaeight8172the best kind of woke haha😂

[@thespian44]

I like that Peterson let Mary talk at length without interrupting

[@Meyer-gp7nq]

He is really good about that, I've noticed

[@sampro454]

Just like in the Musk interview /s

[@kennethng9653]

@@sampro454 If Elon had spoken like Mary does here, I'm sure he wouldn't have been interrupted as much. That being said, he was definitely a bit too excited trying to engage in the conversation as an interviewer, assuming it was an interview

[@sampro454]

@@kennethng9653 Yea but you can't blame the interviewee for their mannerisms, it's up to the interviewer to find the best way to interview someone. Speaking as someone who has a lot of respect for JP - I think he could've done a lot better in that one..

[@kennethng9653]

@@sampro454 Yeah absolutely I agree. Btw, since that interview is part of The Dr. Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, I do wonder if there's the childhood origin stuff on the dailywire side which he didn't mention at the end. Edit: nvm, I checked and it's not there. Seems to be a special arrangement rather than a proper episode

[@rosemaryalles6043]

Thank you for featuring Mary Harrington. ❤❤ She's wonderful. Provocative and articulate.

[@justzaya]

Mary is awesome. So happy whenever I get to hear her speak extensively on these topics

[@lunaa764]

Loving the discussions about womanhood & feminism! As a young woman who doesn't feel like the modern iteration of feminism resonates with me, this was a really good watch. I liked the concept of there being two poles of feminism. I also agree that the 'maiden, mother and matriarch' archetype is a crucial three-step process of womanhood that dictates the natural way women settle into their maturity as they age, and that the 'mother and matriarch' categories of women are often ignored or dismissed in favor of the overtly sexualized, commercially profitable image of the maiden. I wonder if this has something to do with the fear many women possess of aging and no longer being viewed as "young and beautiful" - the glorification of the maiden simultaneously demonizes women who are deemed "past their prime". Mary is a great speaker and I found her knowledge of history to be very fascinating!

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

I have just finished the Daily Wire section, and I enjoyed the conversation keenly. The segment drove home to me, as no other segment has, what a “long and winding road” it really is to get to where Mary is, and that gives me a renewal of faith about my own long and winding road. I, too, was introduced to Butler in university, but my professor encouraged me to disagree with her- as long as I could collect my thoughts and make a clear and cogent argument. Everyone should have a professor like that. As a result, Butler didn’t blow me off course. I was too well rooted and grounded in the Bible and classic literature to be swayed by her arguments, and as soon as I read the first page of her assigned work, I could sense the bitterness and vile spirit behind the obfuscating words. So I dodged and intellectual bullet. What Mary was saying about the “Maiden, Mother, Matriarch” hero’s journey moved me deeply. I believe that in each stage we should be building a foundation for the next stage; when I was a Maiden, I was preparing for motherhood. Now that I am a Mother, I am preparing for the years when I am no longer completely overwhelmed with motherhood by learning and growing as much as I can. So that when my kids are older, I can write the books I am now learning how to write. And thus pass on all that I have learned. Soul-food, this podcast was. With Ruth Anne’s love ❤

[@HadrianGuardiola]

This is a great comment. We are so easily lead astray when youthful and it is the cooler heads who must lead us to real knowledge.

[@zenden6564]

IMO you're of signal intelligence seeing through the malarkey yourself that young. Very admirable. I've never met a woman IRL that had your clarity on this point. ❤

[@petiadavis5122]

Can I just say that I absolutely love this conversation. What a profound insight to feminism, womanhood and life in general. Remarkable lady

[@simonBAGL]

The profundity of this conversation is incalculable

[@mamabearwarriors93]

I LOVED her book so much and I seriously hope she writes more. She's incredible.

[@englishdogs]

Mrs Harrington is lovely. One of my favourite teachers.

[@alexijeknavorian4914]

I absolutely love it when your guests have the opportunity to speak uninterrupted for extended periods of time

[@annathompson5819]

Don’t forget the matriarch’s who are taking care of their grandchildren whilst their mothers are at work! Most of my friends in their 50’s and 60’s are spending around 20 hours a week in this capacity.

[@alisonkirby4398]

I`m that grandparent to a three year and 14 month old...absolutely enjoy every second. I`m not saying it`s easy, very tiring but worth it.

[@nurmelu907]

Embrace being woman, love yourself as you are, you are not racing with men.

[@epicplanetaryfaceplant]

@@nurmelu907 Loving yourself means nothing. It is in fact, a Satanic and sinfully prideful venture in vanity. There is no actual ability to love one’s self either, as you can only love what isn’t a part of you. Love is conditional and it must be desired to love - as it is the desire to unify with what is apart from you. You cannot love your child or God himself if they were already you. Self-love is the Devil’s worship. Women must learn to conform to their duty as it is necessary and conditionally valid.

[@swampfaye]

​@epicplanetaryfaceplant then why would Jesus say love thy neighbor AS THYSELF.

[@epicplanetaryfaceplant]

@@swampfaye This is already a stupid question with a stupid framing to answer it, but I will spare this stupidity. You are loving another as thyself - you are loving, one - as thyself, second. This means you love them enough as they are to be regarded as a part of you. That does not equal loving yourself - it equals loving another as if they matter like you matter to yourself. Same as a familial love, you are loving another as if they are of your blood (this was also intended amongst Israelites - to love their fellow kin as family - not to hate their fellow shared bloodline).

[@swampfaye]

@epicplanetaryfaceplant lol... then you're still loving yourself. You literally called it satanic and here your explanation is to just put yourself second in love, but that's still loving yourself. Think of it this way, you can't rescue anyone until you are rescued. You can't save a drowning man until you learn to swim. The work to be a disciple has to be done on YOU FIRST before you can apply it to someone else.

[@epicplanetaryfaceplant]

@@swampfaye This is why this is stupid, in part, because you refuse to see what I told you. There are plenty of men who hate themselves but can and do love women, children, or even God - despite their self-contempt. Love is independent of the self. Only Satan has enough love for himself as to sin. Additionally, there is a difference between an organism prioritizing themself in both necessity and pursuit of continued duty/function - with no specific regard for the self in a manner like “love”. In fact, loving yourself has many issues, but one of which is that you cannot truly love another if you love yourself. Love is an external operating process, not internal. Contentment and righteous pride are both internal processes, with pride being one that can be rooted externally - but there has to be a link of internal pride if external pride were accomplished. Furthermore, a baby cannot have pride for their parent, but a parent can have pride for their child. A baby, however, thoughtless as they are, can and will love unconditionally upon their parent without even the slightest idea that they themselves exist. As an added note, love can only be rooted externally. If you were to love anything about yourself, it is because you merited an ideal which was achieved/practiced by another, to whom you now see as a part of yourself. You are not born as anything in life, you cannot love yourself at birth. You can love your father however, as he is smarter or stronger than you - and one day when you become just as, if not greater, strong if not stronger (as a man) than your father - then you can learn to love a part of yourself which carries a residual memory or virtue of someone/something you interfaces with - apart from yourself. But you don’t love yourself, you love the essence of who/what you’ve integrated within yourself (which is the meaning of love - ex. To love God is to mold yourself both in His Image and Word - not to tell yourself you love Him - that is fallacious love - a genuine desire to integrate His essence as your own is love). Same goes for women, and why their simplicity matters to men. They can only integrate with the world or men - they cannot choose both - and when they do, they will never love a man, even if he is largely greater than them.

[@mitchmclennan4]

Bring Paul Kingsnorth on! He had a fascinating conversation with Harrington a while back and I have been curious about how you two would engage ever since. He has a truly beautiful mind and such a way with words.

[@garrygreenberg8420]

Yeah! Also Martin Shaw

[@AndyJarman]

​@@garrygreenberg8420, what THE Martin Shaw? The bloke from "The Professionals"!? Inspector "George Gint-ley" ?

[@sherylwhite2201]

​@@AndyJarmanha ha, No! (Though I've always liked him 😊) Martin Shaw mythologist and storyteller

[@liseb.4485]

Mary Harrington and Paul Kingsnorth are my two favorite intellectual discoveries in the recent years

[@anneh8249]

I appreciate hearing Mary Harrington's perspectives and have much respect for her. Thanks for having her on Jordan!

[@elanorhaynes1769]

Nice to see JP letting someone speak. And Mary returning the etiquette. Great conversation.

[@Venator1230]

What an incredibly well spoken guest, thank you for this episode. Mary built her case like a well built home, great detail and solid foundation. Please come back soon, Mary. This subject just has so very much on the plate, there's not enough time to get into it all.

[@markbirmingham6011]

In my opinion he did a much better job listening/letting the guest speak and limiting the duration of his commentary/questions. Great job summarizing her positions. Well done

[@lchoraszewski]

What a captivating giggle/chuckle she has. It's great!

[@daniellem.3194]

So glad Mary Harrington is getting an interview on Daily Wire! Her interviews have been my thoughts out loud from my early college years until now as a the 32 year old mother, wife and woman I am now.

[@showmanshipgaming1326]

This was thought provoking. I'm going to go expand my understanding of the Maiden, Mother, and Matron now.

[@GraceHarwood88]

52:32 The mother is the warrior over and above the maiden and the crone. Pregnancy and childbirth & infant care isn’t for the weak. Risk of death, or permanent wounding. Bloody, strenuous, laborious, endurance building if ever there was a path to transform a young woman into a being unrecognizable to her maiden counterpart. Bravery. Honour. Grit. Resilience. All are birthed along with the child. A mother is born.

[@citytrees1752]

no, not over and above, and why would you want to be unrecognizable from who you were as a maiden? And what about women who were not able to have children? Are they lesser women?

[@gisellemagraibhaigh8342]

​@@citytrees1752 would you see a son who couldn't go to war less of a man than the one who could? Should the son who went and survived war, multiple times, feel motivated to diminish his knowledge and achievements? For fear of offending the men who stayed behind?

[@midmomom2490]

@@citytrees1752being a bit sensitive

[@thepope9023]

​@gisellemagraibhaigh8342 yea being a blood spiller for jews and women isn't a flex. If your a vet you should hush up.

[@JNiina]

​@@citytrees1752you know some experiences in life are so profound that you will never be the same again. Like the Fenix bird rising from ashes, you're reborn into something stronger and more beautiful. That is motherhood absolutely.

[@adamwhite1920]

I see those matriarchs also at the hospitals I work for doing volunteer work. They really do hold the social fabric together.

[@milo_thatch_incarnate]

The Maiden-Mother-Matriarch journey makes _so much sense_ to me as a young GenZ woman! I was lucky enough to be raised in a traditional homeschooling Christian household, and I'm _so excited_ to move from Maiden to Mother. But it makes me so sad deep in my heart that I know almost _no_ other women in their early 20s who feel the same way. They really, really believe that children are a burden, and why on earth would they want that when they can make bank and travel and have sex "freely" their whole lives. I personally consider it my mission field to be a good Christian homeschooling mother, have LOTS of kids (my husband and I are planning on 5-6), raise them and educate them well, and help repopulate the world with _good people._ This episode encouraged, inspired, and uplifted me even higher in that aim and purpose for my life. Thank you for having Mary on, Dr.!

[@carolinereuter7924]

Children are a boon and a blessing. Oh yes, they are burdensome as well and it's difficult raising them but by God, it's so rewarding! I wish you all the best for your motherhood journey❤

[@noontide_sun2880]

I don't think it's fair to bring more children into this hellhole of a world until my country has a stable economy and a bright future. Currently it doesn't ans I don't think it's fair to project my want of children onto an innocent soul. Also pregnancy messes up your body and mind in ways that are tremendous- and overlooked. My body is not the ideal pregnancy/birth body. There's a good chance I'd either rip into oblivion or have to get a c section. You have your kids for more than 18 years. Yes. It's a burden. That doesn't mean they aren't amazing little beings. I have two younger siblings with a 14 and 16 year difference between me and I love then more than anyone or anything. But I see it as something to be done responsibly.

[@RoseKamado-wf3ff]

@@noontide_sun2880god I hate this “pregnancy ruins your body” idea so much. People like you were the reasons I hated my PP body until my hubby reminded me everyday that it was the body that gave my daughter life and I’ve never regretted having her! I’ve lost 50 pounds and weigh less than I did pre pregnancy! I will always get the chance to improve myself but have limited chances to have kids. I encourage ppl not to listen to someone like you

[@margaretsorohan]

Marys thesis is true. This should be taught to young girls and boys at school, so they can understand what choices to make when they finish 2nd level.

[@psyche8187]

I’ve been waiting for this topic from BOTH Harrington and Peterson for so long. Can’t wait to watch!

[@thecrew777]

What an intelligent, well studied woman! This was a joy to listen to, and it filled in so many gaps in my understanding of the history of feminism - especially in light of "how did we get here"? Seeing how our technology has essentially changed at a far more rapid rate than our ability to get the distance to see clearly and make wise decisions was a real eye opener for me. Thank you for having author and columnist Mary Harrington on, Dr. Peterson.

[@jonahrodrigues]

This exploded my little gourd. My views have never been so consistently upended in my entire life.

[@anomietoponymie2140]

I concur, it's been very difficult.

[@viperstriker4728]

That is how I felt when I started looking into gender roles of the past. This video just perfectly articulated 90% of the conclusions I have come to by piecing together other sources. It's as if everything my culture told me my entire life about gender is wrong. Listening to women explain why they would choose a bear over a men to be in the woods was the think that broke my understanding of the world.

[@b.snipes]

Glad they showed Jordan occasionally so we could make sure he was still alive! He was doing a great job listening, haha!

[@pela907]

The woman makes the hero. She is the self, the identity giver. She inspires his ambition and gives him a reason to slay the dragon. She is the reason the village is valuable, she is the one who gave him humanity, both as a mother and a lover. She is Mary to Christ, and Belle to the lost beast. She is essential.

[@esthersokolinski8079]

💯

[@oliviakilpatrick]

I so appreciate Mary identifying the three stages of a woman’s hero journey and will be sharing the concept with the women in my life. It’s so encouraging to have someone sew together metaphorically what my heart has been searching for language for.

[@ClaireGreen-wd2gm]

Mother maiden crone has been celebrated in Pagan culture for centuries. Its been Abrahamic barbarism that has sought to push women down and deny they have power or fear the power women have.

[@karenlawrence8331]

Thank you for your words of encouragement for the matriarch.

[@maryboylan3093]

Mary is saying what I have felt for a long time about what is being taken away from us as women.❤

[@Lynette-u2u]

I’m a matriarch. It was my goal in my life. I also believe in radical loyalty and totally agree with it being the most romantic. My husband has grown more and more romantic and at 49 years together is very romantic. I have 8 children living and had 21 foster children. I’ve also helped raised and continue to be very active in many of my grandkids lives. I also worked outside my home for years, and accomplished success in my career, but what I call my natural role as a mother/matriarch is where I found real fulfillment. I hate what I’ve seen around me with young women being feed a lie that is leading to a plethora of mental health of these young women and leading them into the hands of men who only use them and they don’t even realize it. They struggle with hurt and pain because of it.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

Oh I am so keenly looking forward to this conversation and have been since Tammy spoke with Mary a few months back. And I enjoyed so much the conversation Mary took part in at the first ARC conference. Because I am a novelist, I think about the hero’s journey ALL the time. And it seems so good to see Mary speaking here on the woman’s hero’s journey. Will be enjoying this tonight after the kids go to bed. Also, dearest Dr. Peterson, your interview with Elon Musk was so close to my heart. It was so rich and so moving. So often I’ve been frightened for you that in all the suffering you have experienced and the attacks leveled against you, that you might lose your extraordinary sweetness of spirit, and your childlike (not childish) excitement and enthusiasm, and when I met you, and then again when I saw your interview with Elon, I knew that you haven’t lost any of those precious things. Oh, and I’m reading “The Great Divorce” by C. S. Lewis and thinking about how much you would enjoy it. SOOOO excited for your latest Rogan. With so much love from Ruth Anne ❤

[@redridingcape]

I agree, I saw the comments on that Elon interview and so many of them were berating JBP for talking too much. I think they were overreacting, JBP was just excited to talk to Elon and it was an informal conversation.

[@AFringedGentianToEnnien]

@@redridingcapedollars to doughnuts, ninety-nine percent of those comments were troll bots and not actually humans with opinions. I found them rather monotonous. I don’t think Dr. Peterson gives them a second thought, nor should he, the dear man.

[@autumnleaves2766]

It was a shame that You Tube took down Dr Peterson's interview with Elon Musk, they have no business censoring it in that way. Have just watched Joe Rogan's 2 hrs 36 mins interview of Dr Peterson, who was his brilliant best. His energy levels, both physical and intellectual, must be remarkable but I always hope that he gets enough rest and recovery with his family and close friends.

[@williambenner701]

​​@@autumnleaves2766unfortunately it's THIRE platform, they can do what they want!

[@grannyannie2948]

I've been waiting for this for a long time.

[@swampfaye]

Wait... what does a woman get from a heroes journey epic? SHE GETS A HERO. She gets a much better man as a companion and father to her children. Say THAT.

[@KatallinaVT]

Precisely. Many people get impatient with hero stories if they linger too long on the village and the people in it before going off to slay the story's dragon. But without the village, the hero would have no reason to lift a blade. And without the hero, the people of the village would be devoured. Both the hero and the village have value. Otherwise, there would be no reason to object to the dragon and it would be in the right.

[@matthewparlato5626]

Well said.

[@unapologeticanti-feminist3205]

Not to mention, in most women's romance stories, the hero is willing to do anything for her, she's more the master and he's the servant. He is the smartest, richest handsomest, strongest servant and he'll do anything to protect her and make her happy. Quite the ego trip for women.

[@maryangelica5319]

​​​@@unapologeticanti-feminist3205 right, but this ends up working against the romance as the woman's story, at least as it is today. The man's hero's journey is ultimately about his growth in virtue. The woman who gains the hero doesn't typically have a similar trajectory of growth, so there isn't anything really for her to aspire to. Which kinda sucks for women, if you think about it. We also should strive for the good, true, and beautiful.

[@Kit-kk9cb]

@@maryangelica5319 that's not true. women were always expected to bear virtues like purity and warm-heartedness, virtues which aren't as intuitive for men, but which are very important. the man was expected to have the experience of the world, while the woman was expected to have humanity, warmth and social wisdom. unfortunately it is no longer so, as everybody is just expected to work and obtain power.

[@SE-ve9gx]

Mary Harrington is a force of nature - both a formidable intellectual and an incredibly courageous woman in these very troubling times. Radical loyalty - what a term! Thank you for all that you do. ❤

[@mariabyrne1954]

This woman described my hero's journey to a tee

[@jakemaxwell5989]

I watched the movie Puss in Boots: The Last Wish this week, and I think it does a great job encapsulating the similarities and differences in the hero's journeys of men and women. A male and female cat are both aiming at the "wishing star," which is the etymological origin of the word "desire." Their wishes are different, but in a real sense they are the same. The male is, without his knowledge, aiming at a worthy cause to give his finite, fragile life to, someone to love more than himself, someone for whom he would die. The woman is looking for a man that she can entrust her finite fragile life to, and that trustworthiness is essentially bound to that same resolute character that the man is himself aiming for. The difference is that one is aiming at a worthy sacrifice of his ambition, the other is aiming at a worthy sacrifice of her independence. The difference between these two motives is unnameable apart from, in my estimation, the "male" and the "female." The union between these distinct gendered aspirations is "self-giving." Love is, for both, the wishing star.

[@citytrees1752]

"The worthy sacrifice of her independence" - great way to phrase it. I wish more young women understood the worthiness of motherhood and homemaking.

[@zenden6564]

Beautifully expressed ❤

[@lygiabird6988]

That was INSANELY well put!

[@anomietoponymie2140]

I don't agree with you but love the way you wrote that!

[@viperstriker4728]

I have not seen the movie but I might have to watch it if it's message is so profound. Especially ending with the unification of the male and female goals as both being self-giving. Christianity would call this agape, and puts it as the highest virtue.

[@t3tsuyaguy1]

1:11:40 This is such a huge issue in American society. Our entertainment apparatus has painted an image, for generations, that marriage is about spending the rest of your life with someone who makes butterflies in your stomach. That can certainly be part of a successful relationship, but a marriage is first and foremost about partnership and commitment. I think the reason so many people divorce is because they are marrying for romance, rather than choosing a partner that complements them, with whom they can craft a stable and fulfilling life.

[@hannahn7375]

I learned this truth after mine failed. Wish I knew it sooner but .. I watched a lot of TV then and that's what I saw.

[@barefootsunshine8364]

I have been trying to workout the heroines journey in my heart and mind as a literary aspect for ten years. I only just recently in the last 18 months really dived into putting my finger on the triple goddess as that path. Mary, you are now my heroine! For articulating so eloquently exactly what has been haunting my thoughts and abstractly gathering in my own mind. Spiritual confirmation is always so magical when you stumble upon a like mind of greater wisdom to encourage you yes! You are on the right thoughts!

[@AndyJarman]

Have a look at the triple Greek goddess Hecate. Marker statues or Hecatea were erected to describe property boundaries. Hecatea depict Hecate with three faces. Like Mercury she is a messenger between this and the other two realms (basement, living room, attic). She embodies the past present and future and communicates between the three.

[@viperstriker4728]

Well I agree with the concept and think it characters the female heroes journey quite well.... I would drop the word goddess. There is no greater pride then aspiring to be god. Maiden, mother, and matriarch are great identities to strive for. But to hold those identities up as a god is actually spiritual death. Christianity says that God is agape love, and that there can only be one god. Agape being unconditional self sacrifice with Jesus setting the example. If you reach the end of the journey and become a matriarch, but don't have love, what has actually been obtained? To put it another way, becoming the hero doesn't make one virtues (the hero isn't the god/goddess), but being virtues does make one a hero (the guiding virtue on the journey is god ).

[@shovas]

Thank you for allowing your guest speaking time

[@pienkunicorn]

This is fabulous. Irs so nice to hear the guest talk without getting interrupted. And she's so eloquent

[@TonyGizer]

It's nice when JP lets smart people finish their thoughts before he begins his lecture.

[@unclerukmer]

This is one of the best discussions JBP has had. Not difficult when you're talking with Mary Harrington, but he adds to it with some useful observations.

[@hees0009]

Jordan needs to research NFP (natural family planning), how is keeps women healthy biochemically and hormonally, facilitates communication and empathy between the spouses, and helps couples who may be extremely fertile to maintain family size relative to their financial, emotional, or physical ability to manage.

[@Jdawn92]

It seems like most of them want many kids, I see mostly it’s the poor immigrant community who have 3-4+ kids

[@midmomom2490]

Agree!!

[@DeniseHousewright]

And it often does not work, despite what Catholic Church cons women into believing

[@DeniseHousewright]

Oh, and when it doesn’t work, NPF proponents blame the woman

[@JosephZepeda]

@@DeniseHousewright studies show that some of the simplest NFP methods are more effective at preventing pregnancy with typical use than condoms are with typical use. See Efficacy of the new TwoDay Method of family planning DOI: 10.1016/j.fertnstert.2004.03.040. More sophisticated methods of NFP have rates of unintended pregnancies that match hormonal IUDs. See The effectiveness of a fertility awareness based method to avoid pregnancy in relation to a couple's sexual behaviour during the fertile time: a prospective longitudinal study DOI:10.1093/humrep/dem003 When did the Catholic Church manage to gain control of medical journals? Do you have any sources to back up that claim?

[@kasonglover1638]

Thank you Jordan for demonstrating growth in your hosting capacity. Your listening with us, the audience, is refreshing and easier to participate with.

[@jeffp5991]

Interesting perspective on feminism. Personally, I (as a man) don't think life is ever binary. I believe it's important to support a person, man or woman, where they are in life. I think there are many women who have been irrevocably hurt by following the popular understanding of feminism with disregard for their own feelings and inate instincts. Similarly, many men feel shame for their feelings of a woman's role in a family because of the labels placed on him by society. Like is so often the case in modern society, our instincts are just hooks for the political elite to prey upon.

[@karrishannon]

Mary Harrington is a true blessing. Thank you for your hard work and bravery.

[@andrewbartlett9282]

Great guest. Excellent discussion. Thank you both 🙏

[@meditativ_ely]

I just Love that he allowed her to speak. Finally someone not interrupting the guest.

[@Razear]

The problem with selling "radical loyalty" to the current generation of young women is that dating apps have inundated them with the allure of endless options. It's difficult to convince an entire cohort of young women to risk putting all of their eggs in one basket when they're accustomed to being bombarded by sexual attention in every direction. Now that our potential dating pool is no longer confined by geographical boundaries, we're more prone to overthinking our relationship choices, which is a hallmark symptom of those with a pattern of serial dating.

[@metamormonism]

Well said. I think Peterson should focus his energy on fighting dating websites, not pronography

[@GraceHarwood88]

Illusion of choice. A whole lot of poor options isn’t an advantage. (Geo-specific)

[@AndresColumbus]

There's no putting the genie back in the bottle.for women...the cellphone is always available and a husband can never compete with it. Unless they are raised biblically they will more than likely continue down this path until a revolution happens

[@Firantula]

@AndresColumbus Nah that's bs. My wife wasn't raised biblically and she has a stronger moral compass than almost anyone else I've met. Women aren't monolithic and many more than you think actually want a relationship based on radical loyalty. As do many men. Also if you think that women are the only ones subject to the pitfalls and vices enabled by modern technology you're mistaken. It's like Peterson hypothesized. The things that most men and women want aren't fundamentally different. Last point, if you think a husband can't compete with said things a cellphone gives access to, you either A) only understand women on a very uncharitable and one dimensional level or B) you don't know what a good relationship looks like

[@j.davila4523]

@@AndresColumbusi’m afraid you might be right!

[@birdiehall7817]

Incredible interview, her best yet. So life-giving to hear as a new mother. WOW. LEGEND MARY HARRINGTON

[@i.m.gurney]

Even with my previous counter point comments, I found this episode interesting with many valuable points raised. Thank you both.

[@belenharris8174]

In my cultural psychology class, we called it "masculine feminism" and "equal-but-different feminism." We are of equal worth, even if we stay home. We can vote, go to school, be "the boss" - also stay home! Cook from scratch, train up the children, clean the home, etc. Let us be different! Love this video ❤ great insights!

[@nichreyn]

Read her book. It's a lot of information and hard to digest. I plan to reread Feminism Against Progress in a few months so as not to lose some of the value because it was excellent. I highly recommend it.

[@laniyamamoto6693]

This is honestly one of my favorite JP interviews yet--I'm so happy to hear from a woman who cares about what the female hero's journey. In a lot of ways I think that us women are just as lost as the men because wisdom stopped being handed down through the generations to help guide us. My favorite movie, Arrival, I think is the perfect modern take on the female hero's journey of "Maiden, Mother and Matriarch." The main character goes through all of these stages, but in a way that's not exactly sequential because that's kind of how our lives are. We take on different roles throughout our lives in a kind of eb and flow. It really is beautiful.

[@keepingitreal-thatsright]

Mary, you certainly are not alone!!

[@benclark1482]

I've been articulating this narrative for years. Happy for this incredible woman to put in the elbow grease and articulate it so well!

[@marshallrobinson1019]

My father was narcissistic and I didn't start my emotional development until my early twenties at university. However, I lacked the organizational skills to make it. I returned home and studied at the local college. After a series of events (parental spouse abuse, bipolar familiar care, and pallative paternal care), I met my former wife. I knew nothing about marital communication and treated my wife in an ignorant manner. She was highly agreeable and dissociative. I felt the need to protect her. I believe she was raised with the idea that emotional affairs didn't exist. I didn't recognize the behavior when it occurred while we were dating. I believed she'd grow out of it. I used up most of my life. So, my question for you is, "Is there any possibility remaining for me to experience fatherhood with a good woman?" Or should I completely give up on my lifelong dream of giving my biological child a better chance at life than I feel like I was given?

[@queenB1963]

Don't give up. There are plenty of good women out there that would love to have a child with an emotionally introspective, sane man.

[@citytrees1752]

Why is 'fatherhood' limited to biological children? There are other ways to give, protect, provide and find purpose as a man with fatherly affinities.

[@PJ-om2wq]

Are you still with your wife?

[@marshallrobinson1019]

@@PJ-om2wq She left me and rightly so. I mistook what I now believe is OSDD to be cheating. I do believe she had a series of emotional affairs (aka Limerance). Also, she assaulted me, refused to explain or stop, and I was forced to restrain her. I used Akido to perform a pain based hold. Unfortunately, pain in OSDD/DID is absorbed by the subconscious system [alters]. From her perspective, I believe she doesn't remember the assault and her system sees me as being dangerous.

[@actingapostlesage]

I just got her book, and my God!!!! This woman is a great thinker. Love to see it

[@puddingpop6058]

What a lovely woman

[@phyllislovelace8151]

Many thanks to you Dr Peterson & your guest Ms Harrington, much appreciated.

[@photohounds]

We love women, however the powerful ones in 'the movement' were NEVER about equality... They were about absolute POWER😮

[@hees0009]

I would say that's probably fairly accurate, although Elizabeth Blackwell was pretty influential in the 19th century, and I don't feel she was chasing power. But yes, it's sad that it's always the loudest ones who get heard, and they tend to be rude, arrogant misanthropes hiding under a mask of socially concerned misandry.

[@zenden6564]

​@@hees0009indeed...everywhere in the West

[@viperstriker4728]

The reason those types were put in charge is that the movement as a whole wants equality of power. We should be chasing equality of value instead. Women haven't figured this out yet, but men inherently have more power (physically more power from biological differences) so when a men and women marry they are automatically unequal in power. And if you try to equalize this you end up with a war between genders which is doomed to be won by men. That is why this world view based on power is so toxic. When a women respects a men that loves her there isn't anything he won't do for her. Effectively, she then wields his power as the 2 symbolically become one. But it requires the men show love and the women show respect, if either fails it becomes a contest of power again.

[@photohounds]

@hees0009 There are always exceptions that hilight and prove the rule.

[@DANJEDI]

Radical loyalty..Radical Sovereign Love..Mary Harrington X J.Peterson. Good show 👍

[@carycastle4269]

My husband and I have been in a radically loyal, “devoted” relationship for 55 years. I very much want to reclaim the term feminism to what it was when I was in my 20s and 30s. The early years of our marriage were delicious.

[@donewithprecision785]

45:21 he just said in 1 sentence what took me 19 chapters to explain…this guy is something else.

[@excaliburironforce9908]

Who said Jordan wasn't a good listener 😅

[@christelwilk6166]

He always has been, don’t forget he is a clinical psychologist and intently listening to people is an important part of his work

[@zeph199-n4x]

She debated strongly, this was an incredible discussion

[@0bsidianfire948]

As much as I like this discussion, that the title is "The Female Hero's Journey" rather than "The Heroine's Journey" speaks volumes to me. The "Hero" is the Masculine Archetype. The "Heroine" is the Feminine Archetype. They play *very* different roles in stories, especially in relationship to each other. *Many* modern "female heroes" are just the Masculine Archetype in a female shape. They are doing thematically masculine things in the story rather than thematically feminine things (while the main male character in those stories very often is in the *actual* Heroine role). Also... there *are* other Light Feminine Archetypes out there other than Maiden, Mother and Matron. Those are by far the most common, but there *are* others and those should be acknowledged... (for example: Athena's role/archetype... she's neither a Maiden, a Mother *or* a Matron... and she is not the only female character with her particular archetype either).

[@bonniebrown5102]

I'm sitting here listening to this at my desk job entering data into a computer, while my babies are at daycare and school. I SO wish my husband was able to find a job in our small town that supported our whole family. I have only listened to the intro, but learning about the "feminism of care" put words to feelings I have always had but could not put a name to. I cannot call myself a feminist in the modern since, but I am VERY, VERY passionate about making space for mothers and helping others. I suppose that is why I have always worked for non-profits. I just wish I didn't have to be removed from my babies and my community in order to provide for my family and help others.

[@MR-sr5gh]

Thank you Mary! I agree whole heartedly with what you shared here. I can’t wait to read your book.

[@kriszed5329]

Good to see thoughtful, intelligent and meticulous people come together. Useful topic too

[@danielraab2155]

I love listening to Mary talk. Wow

[@Thierry-in-Londinium]

Mary is an intellectual powerhouse who has evidently thought thru her ideas and concepts in great detail. I will defo be checking out her books & other works. Never heard of her previously.

[@celestialcircledance]

I was debating letting Jordan's old argument that not having kids is evading responsibility slip by since I liked this talk . Kids aren't the only responsibility that adults have to shoulder so the only thing we may be evading is taking on more than we can handle , plus our current society is not designed to make it logistically viable or affordable for many .

[@laura44135]

Having kids isn't the only responsibility of adults, but it is the most hard, meaningful, transformative and important responsibility we can take on. When you become a parent and responsible for another human being in that way, you feel this deep in your bones. Nothing else comes close.

[@celestialcircledance]

@@laura44135 Irena Sendler was a Polish humanitarian, social worker, and nurse who helped a lot of Jewish children hide during World War II . She made a big impact on the survival of generations of Jews but in her memoir she talked about how she didn't have enough time left over for her own husband and child and she's not just a one-off . There are others like her who are pulled in different directions and while I agree that Parenthood is a high calling , I don't believe that it's for everyone and that everyone should be guilted and shamed into it .

[@TheKnellBelle]

​@@celestialcircledance I think our modern, individualistic culture is to blame for how a lot of childless people balk at the absolute way people talk about having children and families. It's not really about guilting or shaming people, it's about affirming something important in a straightforward way. The importance of having a family used to be a common sense given. Now we are expected to tip-toe around the topic. The individualistic lens also affects how we measure what is beneficial to society. I think we tend to ignore the impact of many small individuals doing the right thing and prefer to focus on large, exceptional acts by exceptional individuals - but this is hardly a template for the average person. I will agree that some people have a "calling" that pulls them away from having children, but I think you have to be an exceptional person for that to really be the case. Most people will be more successful acting out their transformation for good in the microcosm of their own families because of the very sacrifices it requires.

[@TheKnellBelle]

So, I agree that not everyone "has" to be a parent. But let's be honest, no one is really in danger of being forced. It's a matter of trying to persuade people that it's a good thing for them and for society. I would say it's the intentional humble and sacrificial taking on the role of parent that really does alter how you see the world, yourself, and other people. Please don't think I am saying having a family transforms people into perfect, selfless, angels, but wanting and choosing to be a parent - and giving up your old self in order to make it happen - does put you through a transformational bootcamp that not many other experiences can duplicate. I've noticed people who do and don't have children tend to prioritize different issues, which is to be expected, but I think it adds up and causes a large, societal impact when we have larger and larger portions of the population not really concerned with raising a new generation. I've noticed that many childless people have a callousness and event resentment towards families and children. This is just not good for a civilization. An example is how many subscribe to the population bomb myth as a way to add a layer of virtue to their choice to be childless, when in reality many nations are experiencing concerning birthrate declines, and have been for decades. Also - and I'm not saying this is you personally - but not having a family does seem to preserve childishness in many people, but in a way that is difficult for them to recognize. I have some in my own family. I think people can escape this by still having a supportive, positive, and realistic attitude towards children and families even if they choose not to have their own, but I think many childless people are just going to naturally have blindspots when it comes to important issues and choosing what would be best for the rising generation and not their own.

[@celestialcircledance]

@@TheKnellBelle I can't resist adding that " the importance of having a family used to be common sense," not because humans were more selfless but because society was structured differently with kids helping to run the farmstead and care for their aging parents under one roof . A lot of people have a more pragmatic bent then an aspirational one land I suspect that it wasn't so much different back then .

[@johnlado6727]

Brilliance recognizes brilliance. What an amazing discussion! Thanks for posting this video Dr. Peterson.

[@mindfulmw]

Guest is allowed to speak at 2:30 but is then given more space to talk than usual on a JP interview. That’s progress as a good interviewer is better at listening v talking over the guest. I am a JP fan btw and just want to see the best of his guests, rather than having to turn off as too many interruptions for too long that destroys the input of the guest. Speaking as a retired psychotherapist with over 25000 clinical hours

[@clamarroan]

I love her positive, constructive stance.

[@myresallen638]

I would love to see Dr. Peterson speak with JK Rowling. She is a lifetime feminist who has been adamantly speaking out against the trans-humanist movement.

[@rotekamelie9857]

Yes, I would also love to see that!

[@anomietoponymie2140]

I am grateful for Rowling's role in exposing the harms of transgenderism but she is hardly an interesting thinker.

[@MimCotton]

Another excellent interview by JP with the equally excellent Mary Harrington.

[@go2therock]

⭐️"We think "technologizing" ourselves will liberate us from some aspect of our nature. What, in fact, happens is that aspect of our nature becomes open to commerce; and in the meantime, that aspect of our nature remains unchanged."

[@alexweaver7558]

Brilliant point she made! Absolutely brilliant. Just absolutely opened my modern western cultural understanding.

[@paco2ski]

Thanks JP. . I'm so glad you joined a team and can focus on THINKING.. Be good to yourself. You were a Firecracker 10 years ago. You are taking on much bigger topics now. Don't fear the CONCLUSIONS .. MY OPINION and Emphacise others can have theirs.