Rebels and Patriots - First Impressions

[@steveholmes11]

In defence of firepower. My reading shows that most battles during this period were decided by close range shooting. It was the decisive mode of combat, and the crossing of bayonets was extremely rare. Gamers who play larger battle systems frequently assume that their "close combat" represents cold steel work. Most design explain that close combat is a mixture of close range volleys and actual close combat. When you zoom in to this large skirmish level, shooting up to 12" is close range. Close combat is the actual crossing of bayonets. I've been happy with the blend of movement, shooting and melee compared to historic outcomes.

[@steveholmes11]

I do like your suggestion for limiting the upgrades. The published lists at the back of the book are fairly limited. Some period sensitive upgrade and downgrade options could enhance the choices without unbalancing a game. I'd tend to reserve "good shots" for troops with superior equipment: minie ball rifles when most are shooting ball, or troops with breachloaders. I'd also prevent its being combined with sharpshooters, as that feels like stacking the same bonus twice.

[@TheEccentricMan]

Played our first game last week, I think you may have got some rules mixed up, much like we did lol. If you are charging your activation roll is the distance you charge. So you need to get at least 6, anything below and you are not charging. I quite like the way you can tinker with the units to suit the period you are playing. For morale tests and Rally's if you fail but roll more than 2 you must retire half your move. We did have fun playing the game and it plays in a couple of hours unlike Sharp Practice.

[@BootsontheTable]

it's entirely possible we got several rules wrong! It's certainly quicker than SP and can be fun. I need another game to be sure as at the moment I think it might be too simple for my personal taste, but I know not everyone feels the same way!

[@steveholmes11]

On rallying, I believe a unit does retreat when it fails a rally check. It might be worth checking the rules again. Apologies, I don't have mine in front of me.

[@LawnBowlsforFun]

Nice vid Dom. Yes, as Eccentric Man says we did do a few things wrong so we may have to rethink our changes. Overall I like them, but after only one game it is too early to tell really. They are certainly easier to play than most, so for an evening they are ideal, but for a longer game, you may find you are going home early. Game two this Friday. :)

[@BootsontheTable]

yes they need another try for sure - I am still worried shooting seems so damn strong that it becomes a defensive dice roll up but maybe the scenarios will change that

[@yankeewargamer3098]

Great review. I very much enjoyed your retelling of the game you played. I do think the shooting would probably be fine for the American Civil War, but it does sound too powerful for the War of Independence. Given the propensity to arm skirmisher units with breach-loaders and repeaters in the Civil War, then I would leave the shooting as is. I do not like the idea of allowing an entire unit to fire, if only a single figure can see the target. I definitely agree with your adjustments on that, based on what you've shared.

[@BootsontheTable]

yes I think that's the nub of it - for ACW firepower was devastating and I think the rules reflect this well. If you go to the earlier period the flintlock was not as devastating and I believe the rules make them too strong. But they are quick and simple rules so maybe I was expecting too much. Thanks for the comment!

[@leonleese4919]

Rule could cover up to the end of the ACW and as far back as Marlborough’s Wars. I’ve looked at this quite a lot as I’m trying to alter some 1975/6 Napoleonic rules for the SYW . The biggest alterations are in the original Napoleonic rules and that is in definitions and inconsistencies not that they were poor but they did cover 5 editions. Originally for 1 man = 20 men and ending with 1 man = 40 men. The more the number of figures per battalion is reduced the greater the Napoleonic feel is reduced. For me 1 man = 33 men is as far as it will go without a lot more thought being put into it. Replaying a Peninsula scenario with all the figures/men present will alter this once I’ve sorted the rules out to run smoothly then I think it will be ok.

[@BootsontheTable]

if you are going to adapt them that much i'd look elsewhere - Muskets and Tomahawks or Sharp Practice for example - great systems

[@NeedGamesNow]

I like your idea of rolling less dice when the unit takes casualties. However, won’t that make units with 2/3 casualties useless? They wouldn’t be rolling enough dice to make kills? Maybe instead the unit would never roll less than 4 dice in combat?

[@BootsontheTable]

yeah that might work

[@steveholmes11]

This is a perfect example of meddling with one rule and not considering the knock-on effects.

[@leonleese4919]

A fair review but I pre for a little more depty

[@BootsontheTable]

yeah they are beer and pretzel type rules