Recaro's Role in the INEOS Grenadier Production Shutdown - What's Really Happening?

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Please consider Subscribing if you haven't already. I always forget to ask!😉

[@joebongo4604]

Hi Josh, regards from Austria. I am a lucky and happy owner of a grenadier what I received in May 2025. I have watched your video with great interest. There is a lot of truth what you are saying and I am afraid INEOS stopped production not only because of RECARO‘s shortages, but to rather sit back and rethink about how the Grenadier can attract a wider range of clients. I hope they will not go the same way as TOYOTA did with their Landcruiser - full of electronics and nixnax. Looking forward to your future videos. Servus Richard

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comment. I think we are in agreement that this wasn't 100% due to Recaro and that INEOS needs to re-adjust. Either way, I'm glad that I got one and don't regret my purchase either. Everybody wants to route for a winning team, so I am cheering INEOS on as they make their way forward.

[@Leonmiller407]

I really appreciate you putting this channel together. Your videos are so much better than a generic car reviewer review. I’ve made my mind up. I’m getting one.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated! I'm glad that you're finding some things helpful. The Grenadier is pretty special, and it's amazing that INEOS pulled this whole thing together. You'll enjoy it once you get it. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences.

[@tdsmith]

This is a very well-thought-out KZbin video, Josh!

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thank you!

[@siliconnoisseur]

I recently replaced my Mercedes Benz G-Wagon lost to the flooding from Hurricane Helene in Florida. I was more than delighted to find the amazing Grenadier that gives a nod to my former G Class. Great compromise and I am loving it so far! Certainly hope the company will be successful as it truly is an outstanding vehicle.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Sorry to hear about the Hurricane loss, but happy to welcome you to the Grenadier family. I think you'll find that the Grenadier is a "good vibes" 4x4 as you'll soon find that people smile when they see it and approach you with curiosity wanting to know what it is and ask about your experience. I think INEOS is on solid footing, and just need a little time to grow. Thanks for commenting!

[@boddhizattva]

I purchased my Grenadier (Fieldmaster) 3 weeks ago in Connecticut and was not one of the early adopters. I saw some videos on line when I was looking at the new Land Cruiser and really liked the aesthetic of the Grenadier. I love the car (even with the quirks) and have received nothing but positive comments and questions about where to buy. one The main issue right now as I see it is that people who are willing to spend $80k+ (with the most popular options) on a new truck/suv are not willing to drive 50-100+ miles to the nearest dealership for service and with the existing quirks, some will have to come back to the dealership initially to address those things (I have had to do this). It would be amazing if Ineos could strike a deal with other car manufacturer dealerships (perhaps BMW) for service appointments. I'm not familiar with the business model so this may be an impossibility but it would almost certainly drive sales in my opinion.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Congratulations on your Grenadier! You have mentioned the #1 trepidation that I hear from potential Grenadier buyers regarding distance to the dealer for service. I know that INEOS had original intentions to supplement their dealer network with a pre-established service network and the names BOSCH and BMW were mentioned as servicing dealers. I don't know where that currently is at. They recently got a Roadside Emergency Service network deal - another issue to be buttoned down. I think things are just still really new for INEOS and everything needs attention - which is a good and a bad problem. Thanks for commenting and enjoy your Grenadier!

[@johnmeyer1518]

I ordered a new Grenadier in September after three test drives including two weekends. I love it and more importantly my partner loves it too. It’s just what we want in a car. It’s big, boxy, practical, high up and great visibility. It eats pot holes, climbs in and out of muddy fields and it is beautiful on the motorway. Ok, it’s not a sports car and if I ever want another car that I can’t legally drive at its optimum speed I’ll get one but for now the Grenadier is super at all the things I want it to do. I had a Range Rover that no garage could fix and I have an older Defender which is a joy but only for about 20 minutes. The Grenadier is so much more interesting than anything in the new Land Rover / Range Rover line up and I reckon for INEOS to win me as a committed customer says they are doing most if not all of the right things. Having said that I still miss my old 2-door Range Rover from the 1980s but I don’t miss replacing the V8 every 20,000-30,000 miles

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

You have perfectly described my own experiences with Range Rover - loved it (them) and fretted over them when strange things went wrong. My Grenadier has been great so far, I think you will be pleased and it's a fun experience as you already know from your test drives. That was a smart way to go about acquiring one as you fully understand what it is. I hope that your wait isn't too long - but it will be worth it!

[@ChuckGaskin]

Ineos needs to revamp customer service issue when those of us that live 5hrs from dealership can get work done. I’m one more issue away from selling and stop the bleeding. Thanks for your podcast. Well done very informative

[@markmcc1]

100%

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thank you for the comment. I agree that INEOS has their work cut out for them on this. It's the one thing that they can't instantly fix and the most frequent frustration I hear from prospective owners that have valid concerns for living so far away from service - especially since it's a new car from a new company.

[@MMN218.]

I got my (previously Loved) 2023 model Trialmaster July 2024 with 40 000 kilos on the clock - she has now 45 000kilos on. No issues and love the Grandier. Namibia (this is where I am from) is world renowned for its divers and remote areas and this vehicle is as stable on off road ass on tarred roads. I prefer the "gravel Travels" due to the adventure side of the vehicle. The solidness she offer is to me one of the biggest attractions and the mere fact that we can go almost anywhere is an another plus point.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comments! I really appreciate hearing from those who are driving and experiencing the Grenadier. It's helpful for others who are considering one to learn from your point of view.

[@philipkearns9757]

Hi Josh I would say your analysis is spot on.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thank you!

[@3ddiy]

It's not a matter of making it cheaper and taking things away. it's a matter of developing the technologies in house and saving on the cost of using partnerships for components of the cars. The argument was they needed to do it this way so that they can meet the aggressive time line. But I think the issues with some of the electrical could be associated with different components not working perfectly seamlessly with each other. In the end the inflated prices and every partner needing to make a profit on their end passes the inflated price to the buyer. Some people will justify the value is there and maybe the best thing you can get out of the factory. While others will opt for a more custom build and still save money. Once all the enthusiast get their grenadier. It's going to be interesting to see how they will sell. as it will be difficult considering all the retro inspired options coming out from major companies that will come in at half the cost. As well as an increase in outdoor vehicles. Sure some of them are not going to be as capable but capable enough for most.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Great points! Thanks for the comment. It is indeed an interesting time where Grenadier is certainly not the only game in town. It is certainly a unicorn of sorts and I think that adds to the attraction of many enthusiasts. Time will tell how this story plays out, but as you mention, other players are hard at work too.

[@LasoAntonio]

Hola Josh Antonio desde México: Eres un referente muy importante para que yo tomé una decisión de comprar o no un Ineos Grenadier aquí en México estoy muy atento a tus videos que son importantes muchas gracias por compartir con el mundo tu punto de vista y creo que nos sirve mucho a todos. Atentamente un cliente de Ineos con anticipo y reservación Antonio Laso

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Hola Antonio, gracias por tus amables palabras. Estaré deseando saber cómo te va con tu Grenadier cuando finalmente llegue. ¡Y recuerda que esperar es parte de la diversión! / Hello Antonio - thank you for your kind words. I’ll look forward to hearing about your Grenadier once it finally arrives. And remember that waiting is part of the fun!

[@lloydswartz7354]

I feel like as more of these are out there, sales will go up. Its a good fit for so many. Dissenchanted owners of other brands, Jeep owners that need more space, those sick of broken ifs junk like me, and so on.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comment. I think the dealer network is playing heavily into where people are seeing more Grenadiers. They recently added 4 new dealers, but still sit at 22 for the entire U.S. I do know that Grenadier is getting a lot of attention - once people find out that it exists! I get asked regularly what it is when I'm out driving. I think they need to get more exposure and advertising to build awareness.

[@TheTommyrobinson]

I think many people will buy the grenadier but most will wait a couple years for them to workout all the kinks.. hopefully they are using this time to address the concerns from initial feedback

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for the comment. I think you are right about many people waiting for improvements. The other big reason I hear from folks who wait is they want a dealer located closer to where they live.

[@thinpins1]

I like your take on this. If recaro was relying on projected ineos sales to be profitable, they were likely already on shakey ground unless major retooling and infrastructure investment was made for ineos. I’d be surprised if ineos would select an established brand as a fundamental supplier if they are reliant on forecasted sales. If recaro’s profitability was dependant on fusilier sales, that was a risky bet.

[@DavesIneosGrenadier]

The rear Grenadier seat is special but the front ones are a standard model used on other vehicles. If you look at the side of the front seats you will see cutouts for electric operation, which isn't offered on any Ineos models and was not planned to be. The German factory was canned by the new American owners probably intentionally.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for commenting - The more information I got, the less clear it was that this was a bit of a two way street and both companies needed certain things to occur for success. When that started to falter, things began to come undone. One of my biggest surprises was that INEOS is currently the only series production car to use 100% Recaro seats - I thought that other brands certainly bought more.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

I think you are unfortunately correct on this.

[@earlhamil731]

There is no market for EV’s and no business model that makes EV’s viable. Buy it, drive it four years, new battery is 28,000 and the EV is worth 15,000. Scrap it. I think a Quatermaster delivered to US with no seats, then fitted with Scheel Mann seats. Beat the seat shortage, and the chicken tax.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Interesting idea on getting around the Chicken Tax! And yes, I'm hearing challenging news in the entire industry on EVs as you mention. I think INEOS dodged a future problem by pressing pause on the Fusilier, and the rest of the industry needs to settle in with or promote regulatory change as I think the different governments legislating the end of CO2 producing vehicles is causing manufacturers to make poor choices to meet the growing requirements.

[@earlhamil731]

@ EV issues are cost, range, and battery replacement cost. Battery replacement costs more that the car is worth at 48 months.

[@markmcc1]

Good video. If you're a vendor relying on a single supplier there is no protection. In this case, If Ineos was relying on Recaro thats wrong and if Recaro was relying on Ineos, which is a low production vehicle, to stay afloat thats wrong as well.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

It seems like all of the stars needed to align with INEOS having the orders to in-turn provide Recaro with the orders to keep everybody afloat. It'll be interesting to watch how things work out. I'm optimistic that they will. Thanks for commenting.

[@zacharyfett2491]

If people are balking at the price, they should look at the current pricing of the Ford Bronco or the Jeep Wrangler. They’re very close in price and in my opinion, not even close to being as off-road capable as the Grenadier.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Great point! I often hear complaints about the price, but think that's coming from fans who wish it cost less because they want one, and less because they paid attention to value against competitors (or alleged competitors). Thanks for commenting.

[@andrewfoster1316]

i think recaro knew years ago they were going tits up. other seat companies proberly would do seats and better. like your videos.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for commenting. I am aware that Recaro builds seats the old way by hand, so they were already having a tough time competing with modern machinery competitors. It would be nice if they would survive this, but times are different now.

[@RootBeerGMT]

Well, we drove one briefly. Quite impressed. But obviously the price is sort of a Schrödinger's cat sort of thing: it’s expensive and it’s not all at the same time. Compared to garbage jeeps it’s priced fair. Compared to a LandRover or G Wagon, it’s cheap. However, it’s 86k and we are in a recession. I don’t know if they can make these for 65k, but at that price they’d be a very obvious answer easy choice.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comments. I think they have their work cut out for them. At least the product is quality. That is probably the best insurance for longevity of the company.

[@buschtaxi75driver55]

Thanks for the video which is very good. I feel so sorry for Recaro and really hope that they find a new investor but it is very difficult in Germany these days 'cause the Ampel coalition" has already ruined a lot of the economical framework conditions for potential investors. Sad but true. I was really interested in the Grenadier but unfortunately, I just don't like the front with those headlights somehow. Also, it is too heavy and too expensive. I would prefer the new Landcruiser but I'm probably a tiny little bit based as I have a Land Cruiser Troopcarrier HZJ 75. I used to have a Defender TDI300 for many years but swapped for the Landcruiser. More reliable and robust !

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comments. This helps to keep the conversation honest. I'm a fan of these older respected brands like Recaro and remain hopeful, but you're likely on target that they have reached a point of no return. Landcruiser's are iconic in their own right, and you'll never go wrong having one of those. I think the entire market for these rugged SUV's has warmed up and it's making all the companies compete for our business with their offerings.

[@cecilsharps]

I don't have a dog in this fight but i really doubt it's just the seats from recarro. Brose supplies seats to mercedes, vw and a whole slew of other brands. They have had excess mfg capacity for 4 years. If ineos wanted to resume production today it's only a phone call away.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

I agree with you in an over-simplified way. After diving in a little on this there is a little chicken vs. egg going on and who prompted the crisis. They made it clear that switching seats was not a simple process due to safety testing requirements, so they can hide behind that if need be and re-commence production once they either get a supplier update, or catch up with the slower demand by selling down existing inventory. Not sure if we'll ever get the full story. Thanks for commenting!

[@RogerCampillo]

Today it’s impossible to put in the market a vehicle like the grenadier for 50k. The only option to get closer to this price is being a huge OEM as Toyota and build it using the very most of the components (including interior) from other large scale models. Can Ineos make it cheaper? Or a cheaper version? Maybe, but even doing super basic it could never be 50k. Starting from the production scale factor and continuing through the very high mandatory added cost due to regulations requirements. So at the end, they need to get a good profit of the sells, otherwise the business is quite difficult to keep going. Maybe a minimization of the profit to reduce the cost could lead to sells increase and then more market penetration, just to get reknown and stablished, and later on find the way to increase the model’s portfolio

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

All great points! Thanks for commenting.

[@beamsgr]

With the US being INEOS largest market there is little to no demand for an EV version in America. Outside of certain urban areas in the US there is little support for EV charging and unclear (at best) plans for developing the necessary infrastructure. Being an emerging automobile manufacturer, it's even more important for INEOS to focus on their primary market and not expand their production so broadly that they are unable to financially support the Company as it moves through what is otherwise typical growing pains. While there may be good production opportunities for them to pursue, pursuing too many good opportunities at once has caused more than one company to go bankrupt because the up-front cash investment takes time to recover and they just run short of cash before those recoveries occur. Nothing breeds failure like too much success!

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Excellent point! They could easily bite off more than they can chew and need to keep the focus. I think they recognized that in going with a dealer network rather than an agency model (like Tesla) - they learned by making this mistake in a couple other launch countries that dealer networks fill a lot of gaps beyond just selling the vehicle. So they are learning and correcting course as the learning occurs, which is healthy in my opinion. Can't wait for the next chapter!

[@leslienoelmans1899]

I think you can justify the price. But in Belgium for example you have to pay 15.000€ tax on top of that; just to get him on the road. In the Netherlands or Scandinavian countries even more. (Unless it’s quartermaster or a 2- 0:44 seater who can be subscribed as a working-vehicle). And the only reason for that is the CO-exhaust. If there was a type with lower exhaust there pool of customers would enlarge a lot. Thank for the great videos by the way 👍🏽

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comments. We're not taxed quite as heavily on Autos in the US (range is about 7% to 12% depending on state). They don't offer any of the commercial versions in the U.S. either which I understand have different classifications for road tax in some countries. I do think their original objective with the Fusilier was to offset the C02 numbers as regulations change once they sell more than 10,000 units in the US, for example. But since they aren't near that yet, it was another reason for the Fusilier to be put on hold. I do know that they also have interest in alternative fuel vehicles as INEOS is a large petrochemical company and they understand that business and have a different perspective on it. I guess we just need to give them a little time to see their next move...

[@pault7977]

They got the market wrong in terms of how they priced the Grenadier. Early discussions/rumors were that it would be closer to $50K, hopefully in the $40's.That would GREATLY expand their potential market size. Ineos needs to either lower the price, or introduce a lower cost model.

[@DavesIneosGrenadier]

They can only make 25,000 per year on a two shift basis. That is all models/versions combined, for the entire world. If you are a low volume niche manufacturer you had better be doing it at a profitable price. No point doing it at USD$40,000 if that just means you can't make enough. The US dealers will just push their sell prices up if demand exceeds supply. Remember also that the US models get an extra airbag and that stupid ADAS system that was required. You also have the dealer model where most of the world has the agency model. Although this will probably change.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comment. I think the ship has sailed on lower priced versions. They do sell a commercial version in some other countries, but chose not to pursue that market in the U.S. Not sure if that's a mis-step. We'll see how things play out.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Good points! I learned that ADAS is becoming mandatory in EU countries and INEOS stepped up immediately rather than waiting until forced to add these features and do any redesigns. ADAS itself doesn't bother me - it's being forced into all new cars. I think the implementation of the features is what drives me a little crazy.

[@RootBeerGMT]

Waiting for depreciation to kick these down to 55k

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

You are not the only one waiting. It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[@DavesIneosGrenadier]

Recaro Automotive is owned by an American company that built a new factory in the US and took all the North and South American business away from the German factory. That is what sent the German company broke.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

It's a little disappointing that some private equity group bought Recaro to sell it out for parts. I'm wondering if INEOS may pull a rabbit out of the hat as they have track record for doing such things (think Belstaff - which they bought in 2017 and is just this year finally breaking even). They're keeping tight-lipped for the time being. One can hope. Thanks as always for your comments!

[@Colinpark]

I would drop the electric parking brake and offer up non-critical options like heated steering wheels and other nice to have. If a married guy is trying to convince the wife to shell out $100,000 on a vehicle it better have some of these options, if he wants her buy in. Also have a very pruned down version for NGO and defense work.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for your comment. This is the first I've heard about electric parking brake - but I understand why that makes sense and have heard many requests for a heated steering wheel (Inclucing from me!). I get your point about the Grenadier needing to suit both members of a family and an expensive vehicle without some of the usual modern conveniences (like a vanity mirror). As for the pruned down version, they actually do sell them in other countries - just not in the U.S. I guess they think their best target is the higher price point paying crowd(?). I think future updates to the Grenadier will include some of the features that will make your spouse happy - they just need to get to the next level. We know that 2025 model year is same as 2024, but don't know how fast they plan on adding new features.

[@andyorr1597]

It’s not a family SUV. Full stop.

[@iceman9678]

So many examples of automotive companies getting into EVs and then losing big time.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

So true. It's been a really tough year for all car companies, and the European ones are quaking in their boots to see how a new political administration will impact their way forward. At the moment, the EU is tightening the screws even more than the US, but with the push back from consumers on the waning desire for EVs, it's certainly gotten messy. Thanks for your comments!

[@PeterFearon-g8q]

Sir him won’t let it fail, he may however cash in and sell it job lot to bmw

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Agreed. I guess there are short term struggles and long term as well. I think they need to sort out production, marketing (who their market truly is), and sales targets before there would ever be talks of selling it on. Land Rover had a few owners over the years - including BMW and Ford - so you may be on point! Thanks for your comment.

[@PeterFearon-g8q]

To me it’s BMWs answer to the Merc W463 G Wagon (the real G wagon) which stopped production in 2018

[@martysy]

It’s simple economics, the Ineos car company will fail. It’s so expensive to meet multiple legislative obligations around the world that you either have to be small and ultra exclusive and very expensive (Bugatti, Ferrari etc) or big and have economies of scale. Ineos is neither and the capex and operational costs are simply way too big for a limited niche market. Nice try but it will disappear, unfortunately for its fans.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Excellent points and all I can do is hope that you're not correct. INEOS has been swimming upstream on this project, but have navigated a lot of tough regulatory issues - remember that parent is a petrochemical behemoth that frequently deals with such things. Let's hope that they find their balance of demand, production levels, and price. I'm not ready to call it a fail just yet - but I'm an optimist. Thanks for your comments.

[@andyorr1597]

Ineos just opened four dealerships in China. A NYC / Tri-State dealer just invested $4 million in a new, upgraded dealership. The parent commonly is privately owned and valued at $60-$80 billion. Does this sound like a company that is having troubles or a company that is still in aggressive launch mode?

[@Fr99763]

Why has my comment been deleted?

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Hi There - I'm sorry, but I don't see a previous comment from you on this topic. I don't delete comments unless they are 100% off topic (I've only had to do this 3 times on all my videos), so rest assured that I welcome your comments so long as they are constructive and on topic.

[@Fr99763]

@@MyAutomobileObsession i had made a comment about the origins of Recaro and its history (Reutter Karosserie from 1906, hence Re-Caro, subsequent sale of the mother company to Porsche) and its current production of automobile and aircraft seats. Deleted

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

@@Fr99763 Definitely on topic. I'm not sure what may have happened, but thanks for re-posting. I don't know if KZbin does any filtering before I see things. I appreciate you letting me know and please know that I appreciate comments like this.

[@peterbullen3347]

The Grenadier release price in Australia was a little higher than expected, I had an early adopter reservation in but withdrew it when I finally got to ride in one. I went to the event in my LR3 and the parking was full of LR3 and 4, It just didnt seem $90k AUD Better than my old LR3.. especially ride quality..

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for the comment. It's true that the Grenadier just isn't for everybody and the price makes you really think twice about taking a gamble. Give them a little time with it and take another look in a few years and I think they'll have fixed some of the short comings that may better justify the price, but sadly not lower it.

[@laurencefahey3132]

Having owned new defenders, when I test drove the grenadier both petrol and diesel variants, it’s on road driving wasn’t to my liking, yes I’m sure fantastic off road i know, but it’s still going to spend the majority of its life on tarmac , if they could refine it a little perhaps more people would be interested, in the uk it seems every other car is a new defender , because it’s road manners are as good as it’s off road.

[@lloydswartz7354]

The new Defender is a luxury street car. Quite a different market.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Good points! I almost thing that the new Defender was re-thought from the original expressly to address that even 4x4 vehicles spend a lot of time on the roads, and serve great utility for everyday tasks. I agree with your thoughts. on the Grenadier not being as well mannered and featured, but still gave it a go as I always wanted to experience such a vehicle. I've had 6 JLR products and the thing that always puts me off is I feel like the next one may have more "gremlins" that previous that I owned. I've had both excellent and horroble luck with Range Rovers - still love them too, though... Thanks for commenting!

[@laurencefahey3132]

@@lloydswartz7354 i absolutely agree , what I’m saying is , if they refined it a little then perhaps their market would appeal to a wider market.

[@streakychambers658]

Rubbish… you clearly know nothing about the automotive industry and how suppliers need to meet legislation. Stick to Ford, Ram and GMC…

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

Thanks for commenting, all points of view are welcomed. I still like my Grenadier and oddly would not be one to consider a domestic model.

[@loum.4377]

Ineos does not have smart people. Ineo's has put Grenadiers with no options on dealers lots. they put in a 4K Warn Winch on almost every car. I would never pay for a winch I won't use. Who thought of this? It is suicide for their business. A 4K expense and no heated seats, this is crazy. Yes its an off road truck, however people with the 100K+ still want luxury stuff!

[@Jim00]

It’s not a warn winch.

[@loum.4377]

@@Jim00 But it is. look it up.

[@peopleschamp7258]

​@@loum.4377 it's not a warn winch, it is red winch.

[@MyAutomobileObsession]

I think INEOS let people order cars as they desired - even if they didn't make sense - because the first batch of buyers were taking a 100% leap of faith as to what they would get. In hindsight, I think INEOS should have either required a bigger commitment to orders, or should have vetted the strange / bare bones orders as those are the ones beginning to clog dealer lots. So, hard to say they weren't smart when everybody was new at this - but I certainly understand your point. Thanks (as always) for commenting!

[@peopleschamp7258]

@@MyAutomobileObsession Ineos was forced to do something different here in the USA that they did not have to do in ROW. Because we are a dealership model, they were forced to assist the dealers by sending orders to fill the lots. Everywhere else was a agent model so Ineos could be more selective on what was sent. The mistake in my opinion was what you stated, low barrier to entry in terms of low deposit plus the ability to cancel at anytime including when it showed up at dealership. The second was these types of orders that were mismatched. Their should have been someone whose job was to make sure it made sense. A winch with no lockers are fine if your TC is on par with LR but how would a person know that unless they drove it without lockers which none of us had an opportunity to do. Every prototype test drive that I did was off road and the center and rear lockers were locked. I already made the decision to order lockers because I come from world rather have it and not need it.