Predator 212cc Stage 1 With Dyno Results ~ The Road to Horsepower Ep1

[@TheShepard5348]

Loud pipes save life's --- Jesus Christ saves soul's --- but ------------ mufflers make horse power. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[@jeanlawson9133]

AIN'T IT JUST AIN'T IT 😎

[@fish_R_stinky69]

@@thehemiolds455 False. If you make the straight pipe longer, it will make MORE power than the muffler.

[@RC_Trailblazers]

Back pressure and exhaust scavenging are real things. Having a little bit of back pressure in either a longer pipe or even in this case a muffler causes a small vacuum between the strokes in the pipe and head when the exhaust valve opens and the exhaust gasses are forced out. That little vacuum helps pull more of the burnt gasses from the cylinder head allowing the next combustion cycle to burn cleaner and make more power since there is more clean air and less burnt air if you will. To much back pressure can hurt performance though too. Hence why millions of dollars go into R&D when building a high performance engine.

[@SoLoCruizer]

My bike is faster when I add the wd40 homemade can on but with the 3stage from go powersports go on get u a d battery maglight hollow it out pop it on and man u will have alot more deeper power then I messed around at the electric department at home depot scored me a trumpet attachment from the light lamp section it really makes it faster now too on the cheap

[@fish_R_stinky69]

@@jeanlawson9133 Mufflers don't make horsepower.

[@mikesbarn1858]

The whole concept is awesome. Helps everyone decide how far they want to go. This may be your best series yet.

[@lizzard7473]

The world needed this. Thank you for this build.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you for watching!

[@chickenlittle5916]

Amen

[@warpedangel20]

This will be the true game changer. I won't be able to get enough of this.

[@cupwalker24.7]

Harbor freight has kept a ton of lady's and gentleman on the track and on the road for many years !! And that deserves more than tons of respect.... Without these engines alot of people's dreams would not be able to be accomplished in life .

[@donduck6195]

Yes yes yes!!! This is what I've been waiting for. I know you're going to be doing lots of other Dyno tuning, but if you are taking requests... I would love to see a dyno shootout between a gx390, predator 420, Duramax 440, and predator 459. Stock / stage 1 for all of them. I would love to know if the Honda is underpowered and if the Duramax makes their claimed HP etc. Keep up the badass videos

[@chipbruner2412]

Excellent job RB and crew! Awesome way to start a series!

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thank you for supporting!

[@srmatrong]

9:19 just to let everyone know. The header pipe they put in the description, they had to weld the pipe and the fitting together, it does not come pre put together

[@johnmattinson3513]

You should make a score board like the British top gear used to do but with hp numbers instead of lap times. You should include engine cost and stage. Like first would be, stock 212 $129 6.5 hp, Then 212 stage one $200 9 hp. You could add to it every episode.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

I will do that sir. Thanks for the idea. Ill give you a shout out when we do that!

[@billbalke7572]

I love what you do !!! Saves alot of us from the expensive mistakes and helps us get it right the first time. Thanks to your sponsors for helping you out ...

[@jwish29]

Very excited for this series. Maybe only show one of the dyno runs from each variation though? Seemed to drag on seeing the entire pull of each run.

[@CastleBravo187]

I've got a Pred 212cc sitting new in the box in my garage, I'm looking forward to this series!!!

[@davidperryman1759]

I love this series… I’ve always wondered just what performance differences there are with each stage of performance mods! Thanks guys, y’all are great! Keep up the good work

[@davidperryman1759]

I don’t have telegram

[@michealarburn9861]

It's the most fantastic idea for a series ever! I didn't have four wheelers or dirt bikes growing up I was fortunate enough to have a pile of yard carts. I always built traded and swapped trying to squeeze more power from them. It will be amazing to see the before and after results of all the types of stuff I used to do. I will be here for every one of these.

[@transformationproject3583]

I extended a light fun kart the same way they did lil red here for an adult, 212 with carb upgrades and a header, no governor. torque converter with a 48 tooth sprocket. around 4' of ground clearance. I weight 265lbs clothed. Results: around 43mph, spins tires easy in gravel with live axle, fast acceleration, I can stop and climb any hill out here with ease, it will drive through fields with 4' tall grass no problems. It always starts with ease. If I do anything it would be add a billet flywheel for safety. I rap mine out but never hold it there. I have driven this kart for miles on road trips instead of taking my atv. Cool thing is im the only one out here in my rural area cruising one of these things. Honestly im not sure why more people dont have one lol. It just seems the big blocks are more work. I would consider twin 212s. Ive found since I was a kid that the lighter frames and more reliable engines were always the best combination for care free fun. I do have a vintage mcculloch f1 frame and im seriously considering selling off some of my prized junk and getting a tillotson 225 for it. I think if you dont leave them floored all the time it would be another reliable kart.

[@jasongrinnell1986]

Wow! What a game changer. Love seeing the results with the modified parts.

[@james10739]

I didn't expect that much of a difference

[@miketee2444]

This is a fairly simple idea that I'm sure many have wondered the answers to. Many have wondered that actually had the equipment and means to find answers. You are just the one that took the time to plan the tests and gather what is needed to get data. Thanks, it's not a lazy man's game for sure. I always knew y'all had it going in the right direction.

[@jimciancio9005]

Awesome tool my man! Thanks for someone finally doing something like this with actual numbers to back up the claims! And let me know when you have a Dyno capable of handling a Briggs Vanguard 570 fully modified billet, chrome-moly and roller everything inside and out, oh and its also superchargerd via a Eaton belt driven supercharger. I'd be afraid of it breaking your new machine there!?!? Lol! Believe it makes somewhere up in the triple digits if not right at them? But definitely worth the time and effort to make these videos to show the differences between the modified engines and how they change its characteristics and performance levels. Where you may gain power you may lose torque and this will be really interesting to see how it goes with a billet flywheel??? I believe the one on the Vanguard was something stupid weight wise difference? Like almost 20lbs down to a 7+lb flywheel. It was worth the money to get one of the ARC billet wheels when you're acceleration more than quadruples off idle!

[@jeffreypowell3427]

Enjoyed the video, and thanks for investing in the dyno, it’s good to finally be able to see some numbers on these parts.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Big thanks to Mark for the dyno. Its a game changer for sure.

[@danf4616]

Stage 1 Speed Gains are actually: 0 - 35 ---> 20.1%, 0 - 39 ---> 33.5% Still pretty darn good! 👍👍

[@ryanswiggart7553]

Got in an argument with the tech barn last weekend when they claimed no mufflers make more power. Thanks for proving me right!

[@TheFastKart]

Awesome! Finally, we've got a guy that's providing the straight-up no bull scoop on what works and what doesn’t. Thank you RB and thank you Aimsoil for making it possible. Can't wait for more of this!

[@tommybally03]

Finally a no BS way to see what each modification does! Absolutely what we (your viewers) wanted! I would ask the you please consider running a test tube (exhaust with bung and wide band 02 sensor) to keep an eye on the air to fuel ratio. There by ensuring that each fuel mod isn’t adding too much or too little fuel. If you’re interested in doing so I might have an new extra wide band and gauge squirreled away in my garage.

[@ericmorgan7657]

This is so awesome,Thank You!!!!......I pray you do a wildcat 223.

[@morgunfreedom4346]

Going to be a great series... How about flathead briggs up on there

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will be doing that soon sir. Thanks for watching!

[@charlesgraham9954]

sweet.! iv been waiting for a channel to do this, I'm glad its u RBG.

[@cedhome7945]

Might want a chain guide/tension just to be safe. Great to see what gets the most gains for your bucks

[@RedBeardsGarage]

The floppy side of the chain is the return. I will be building a few guards to protect from several things lol.

[@officiallistengreatmuzik]

What is a chain guide/tension? I've had issues on my gokart with the chain break since I've did a stage 1 upgrade

[@michaelnelson7305]

One thing to consider is A/F ratio, keeping it consistent after each change will give better results. After removing the muffler, the engine may have been too lean to make power....

[@fish_R_stinky69]

Then it'll make LOADS more power when you rejet it.

[@troysmoliak4924]

I would just like to say Merry Christmas and a Happy New Years to you red beard and your family I really don't hope you're having a good one God bless and amen to all of you my respect from Canada. Oh yeah I almost forgot Lonnie Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year's to you and your family as well.

[@TheWildernessFamily]

No Hemi's near us. Would love to see a Predator224 build like this! That is what we plan on buying.

[@kinotransam]

That A/F Ratio sensor would really improve your tuning capabilities to get the max power. If the 17.7 AFR that was displayed is what that engine was actually producing, it's entirely way too lean. Most naturally aspirated engines like to be between 12-13.5 AFR. General rule of thumb is the right timing for torque, and the right AFR for horsepower, but both tuning aspects effect both parameters in different ways.

[@Thorbrook]

That's awesome. Can't wait for the next one. It's definitely my new fav series

[@thewildernessfactor2667]

Love the vid I’ve done lots of big bore kits and stroker cranks on the gy6 engines, now I’m looking forward building my 212 on my go kart now because of you

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We have everything you can think of coming. Stay tuned and thanks for watching!!!

[@SRT-Dani]

Can’t wait for the 224 dyno run

[@DangOldHillBilly]

GOOD STUFF. Can not wait to see the Predator 224. Excellent job guys.

[@seansysig]

RBG awesome series! Can’t wait for next video in he series.

[@lloydbaker7099]

Great addition to the channel

[@OGTtom]

Great information Greg , thank you , will definitely watch the next video .

[@madixj]

Awesome! I definitely noticed a difference when I added the stage 1 kit! The only problem I found was that if I put any jet bigger than stock, the engine would have terrible valve float, but I found the stock jet with an upgraded emulsion tube worked great and I'm loving it!

[@jeffrykopis5468]

Well, hell, bud, why not put stiffer springs CO in? You can do it by hand in under an hour! 24 lb springs won't float with a stock cam.

[@madixj]

@Jeffry Kopis yeah, the only problem is if I replace the springs, I'll then probably blow up the flywheel/rod, and I can't really afford billet parts or a new engine right now 😅

[@jeffrykopis5468]

@@madixj If it still has the governor in it, can it turn much over 5000?

[@madixj]

@Jeffry Kopis if it has the governor, you're fine, but I took the governor out 🫤

[@devenbelanger8463]

I love this series. Great work. Educational and informative.

[@cjsexton5380]

Ya this is the best video for the small engine community in awhile

[@jonathanzimmerman2976]

I can't wait till you get everything possible done to it and see the numbers enjoy your show Merry Christmas and God bless

[@montanasoftware5954]

Awesome video! Please do this with a Briggs 627 vanguard 23hp engine. Thanks!

[@brianking1138]

Great video. I am looking forward to the rest of them.

[@devivoman]

For sure this needed to happen, you have been showing a true talent with your build and fabrication quality on KZbin for some time now, I'm glad that you will be delivering this content. Thank you for bringing it to us.

[@downtoearthconstruction7768]

Well as Martha Steward would say about the muffler removal, “Back Pressure, It’s a Good Thing” 😆

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thats what a muffler shop has told me for years. Guess they was right!

[@DanielTD2]

Awesome video, can’t wait to see the full build!

[@Goblingimp]

just wanted to say i love your channel every video is so clean and professional

[@a1racer441]

I liked this shows a very clear with numbers and real world test before and after.

[@TheFastKart]

@redbeards garage - Lets prove its the timing causing the torque loss by putting an offset key in to retard the timing 4 degrees. We all need to see this in action to be sure we know what works and what doesn't. Thank you for a great series of videos!

[@shark11175]

Beautiful Editing and Video!

[@3dconceptsofutah757]

Thanks Red Beard! Great to see the data! Like you mentioned, it's hard to quantify stuff just by feel. Cheers mate!

[@lungsup]

This will be like Richard Holdener's videos proving what works and what doesn't. Useful beyond description.

[@chadtetrault1386]

Looking forward to seeing how rocker ratio changes the powerband depending on camshaft selection

[@clayhunna7357]

Great series look forward to seeing the figures on a big block. thnx RBG an team

[@mmoncure11]

Great start to the series, I really appreciate you doing the muffler vs the header. Edit, did you get it all the way to 5k rpm just by removing the throttle stop screw and the governor in? did the valves float?

[@delandbrooks3291]

This makes the mods comparable. I want to see this same testing done against a Ghost.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will in an upcoming video.

[@glenproctor795]

With no muffler it's running lean ...still needs bigger jet with no muffler....or getting drag pipe sag... great video

[@kirkclegg5960]

I have plans to build one of these soon. This will be so very helpful!!!

[@daevincaldwell3201]

I’m getting into this small engine world coming from v8 mustang engines. This series is matching exactly what I will be doing through these next few months. I’ll be stopping at stage 3 with a non-hemi 212 similar to your “billet everything” video you’ve posted before. Can’t wait to see the results! I’ll be subscribed and watching all of them!

[@NatashaB]

Love this. Would also love to see similar rundown for a 420 in the future!

[@ProbeGT2]

This series is really cool! One suggestion, if you can get your hands on a lower stall clutch, we could better see the low-mid range power gains or losses. I never expected a stage one to be that good. I'm trying to find parts to upgrade my briggs and stratton 15hp in my snowdog, i wonder if most of the clone parts would fit.

[@gabrieljohn5241]

Absolutely love this video 🙏💪 found your channel on Instagram 😄

[@GibsonsGarage]

Love the fact you can get hard numbers to put behind these engines now. Make me want to build a drag shopping cart

[@JCTEAM60]

This series is going to be awesome. Great idea to show what effects these actual upgrades have.

[@GrantOakes]

Super great info! Can't wait to see what stage 2 and 3 does to this motor. Hope you do a series on the 420cc and 670cc.

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will be doing 420cc, 440cc, 460cc, 625cc, and the v twins soon. Waiting on a clutch to arrive. Thanks for watching.

[@GrantOakes]

@@RedBeardsGarage SUPER! I can't wait!

[@speedyme200]

I guess no one cares for the 301cc preds

[@azlongtales]

@Red Beard's Garage yes!!!!! I think exactly what the internet has been waiting for!!! Awesome content as always very informative. Thank you for getting a Dyno on the channel much needed for the internet reference specs of these engines.

[@kurtadelman272]

I noticed the engine was mounted at a bit of an angle on the Dyno, may be more consistent if you can level,up the engine, may impact fueling and float level, possibly oiling. Great series!

[@jessebrowne5243]

Validated my theory on my fun cart, awesome vidja!

[@clivecole1290]

Excellent, you cant beat empirical data, well done

[@marvicty]

This dyno is a game changer plus Lonnie in the vids is always a good thing

[@yoster77]

This series is great!

[@RedBeardsGarage]

Thanks for watching!

[@andyb9994]

Great vid glad to see you got a dyno, we use these engines on race Karts, and this is super helpful info... Thanks!!!💯

[@coachjbates]

Just found you guys and thanks.. Bring back memories of my Rupp Mini Bike... Yep i am that old... These seems fun

[@robertwall713]

Wow dude thanks for doing this and sharing it with us !! Currently I am starting a build using and old Bucket Bug go cart that I have picked up from a guy that builds some truly amazing 5 HP Briggs motors, Kato gets upwards of 50 HP out of a crazy built up consisting of custom cast crankcases and the works. Because of parts availability I am using a 212 clone and in the first steps I will be doing the standard stuff like a round slide 26 mm carb, cast flywheel and valve springs and a custom exhaust by me. after I get bored with that combination I will be experimenting with camshafts , cylinder head work and compression ratios. I will be following along closely with your progress, I really like the methods and work you do! Like you I like mufflers I want my performance to do the talking!!!

[@Logic44]

11:07 That dyno recreated the downhill pops almost perfectly lol

[@sethgarrett1994]

Love what you're doing brother I'm glad to see you guys doing this the right way with a good reliable dyno

[@mlindsay527]

I like seeing some real numbers! Pick up an adjustable jet for the stock carb so you can tweak the A/F mix without having to swap jets between runs. I’d also like to see a O2 sensor on an exhaust for tuning.

[@josephschmier3733]

I love this stuff and the way your doing it. I would love to see preditor Goast vs tillison stage 1

[@CODOutdoors]

It is awesome to see the real results, thanks for sharing!

[@sfeather7088]

Really Fun Too Watch!

[@TheWildernessFamily]

From my research, the non-hemi model offers better part compatibility and modding options. I sure hope you do a non-hemi 224 build soon :).

[@lifeisabeech941]

Love the idea for the magnetic dipstick def gonna pick one of those puppies up

[@LordFred69]

just bought a 224 cc so appreciate this video

[@NE_OffRoading]

Loved everything about this I remade your yerf dog 32001 and have the 440cc duromax, If that gains 35% hp that'd insane that'd be 24.3. Would love to see that test

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will have big block and v twin stuff coming soon. Just waiting on a few parts to come in.

[@051570orion]

I like all the videos you do but these tutorial/instructional videos are really good

[@CodyPowell-oe4pj]

ive been waiting for a series of videos like this to come out. simple concept but very good idea considering ive yet to see anyone els try to cover it. RBG is the shiii so ill be lookin forward to the next

[@normangarland6558]

Nice! Been watching you since you started and you keep getting better. One quick question, if you go from 6 to 9 hp its really a 50% increase. This results in 33% more hp though. :)

[@jonsiglar2505]

Great idea and series.

[@MrSaaadpanda]

Could you do a continuation of this video with just changing the jets to see if you can gain more power from it before it runs to lean like going up and down one size from stock that would be a cool video to see on the dyno since you are the only one online that has a dyno for theses types of engines. again thank you for posting all these videos!!!

[@redman112010]

I used to run a Honda "13hp" 390cc with about 30hp on a pulling tractor. Turned about 6500 to 7000rpm all the way down the track.

[@redman112010]

Also had a Honda 20hp vtwin with at least 50hp that was a torque monster on a pulling tractor.

[@zachariekelley]

Hay Red Beard could you dyno test a 228r? That would be neat. ✌️

[@DOITALLMFER]

Ok I’ll subscribe now hahahaa. Let’s get it man these dyno videos are gonna be the best thing out.. please pump em out man thanks.

[@jesseshelby4383]

I see that when you are using the dyno the chain is just going nuts and I was thinking that a tensioner would be a good addition to your new dyno? Love the comprehensive testing of the engine from stock to built 👍

[@Singh_1989]

I have a request that you test a home made performance parts for those who like to make cheap horsepower. Edit: A great option for diy horsepower would be an old Briggs flathead engine. Do some porting and polishing, a 3hp flywheel, a coke can as a head gasket, and some other stuff like that

[@RedBeardsGarage]

We will be doing stuff like this soon sir. Thanks for watching!

[@gregswafford9839]

Great video, look forward to upcoming videos showing progress on these builds. Real world numbers never lie, thanks for sharing the info. This makes me want to ditch my shorty header and try a longer header pipe.

[@kevinjohnson9372]

This pretty neat stuff show what a thin head gasket or porting may do b4 u cam swap it I know u mentioned non hemi head for compression bump and valve to piston clearance

[@rollinwithrobbie]

I hope you do a stock muffler shoot out. Maybe a semi built 212 testing the stock 212 and 224 mufflers... i am trying to make a lil more power with my 212 generator.

[@ClericChris]

I'm glad you have a sponsor, it helps pay to do crazy stuff so we can make an educated decision. So, knowing what we know now, you'd have to be a lunatic to put Amsoil in a Predator, then bolt-ons. Let's do the math $40 of oil and $70 in parts .... to gain 2 HP ..... on a $100 6.5HP engine. MADNESS! It's maybe better to just cram in a bigger one.

[@igokarts4510]

Had to pop some popcorn for this one.

[@fastcars63]

I have a land and sea dynamometer. My saying is, if you don’t dyno you really don’t know, and I have a super flow, flow bench we test carburetors, heads for carts, even air filters and more if you want it to go it’s really got to flow