Reference Recording: Mahler's 4th Symphony

[@jerrygennaro9732]

An insight (for what it's worth) from Robert Philips's "Performing Music in the Age of Recording." The biographer Henry-Louis de la Grange describes Walter's tempo for the finale as surprisingly rapid and reveals that Desi Halban informed me (de la Grange) that he (Walter) was following the instructions from the recording engineers, who had to keep in mind the duration of the 78-rpm side.

[@swimmad456]

This took me completely by surprise. From my teens in the mid-1970s it was Szell and Cleveland that was the starred recording in both the Penguin Guide (which I know you loath) and the EMG Art of Recording Buying (sadly long gone) and remained so for quite a time until Maazel/VPO. I think for a recording to be classed as 'reference' it needs to be well known. Perhaps it had greater circulation in the US than in the UK?

[@johnnewton4461]

I was sure he was going to name the Szell!

[@connykarlsson9969]

I also thought it was going to be Szell and Cleveland. I grew up with it during the seventies in Sweden and my conducting teacher always highlighted it. But David makes a compelling case for his choice of reference recording.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Szell, obviously, came much later and never had much play outside the US and the UK.

[@Mooseman327]

@@connykarlsson9969 Me three. I think it just slipped his mind.

[@rogermilne8563]

When I started Mahler collecting in the mid 70s it was Szell that was being acclaimed. I think it first came out in 1965 so had already had time to be accepted as a recording to judge others by.

[@sivakumarvakkalanka4938]

Interestingly, in the UE interviews, Zubin Mehta says this recording is the first time he heard the music of Mahler as a teenager in Bombay. I too expected the Szell/Raskin recording, though i have a soft spot for the Klemperer/Schwarzkopf Philharmonia recording.

[@richardtomasek]

While it may not be a reference, the one I grew up was the Reiner/CSO. It is still my favorite and the orchestra is phenomenal. Reiner came late in his career to appreciate Mahler's music, yet the two pieces he did with Chicago (Das Leid is the second) are excellent performances.

[@mobershan]

I totally agree! The Reiner Mahler 4th is superior to the much praised Szell recording, fine as that is.

[@peterjohnstone2877]

The Walter 4th was a studio recording not a live performance. There are more than a dozen Walter Mahler 4 recordings captured at live concerts.

[@brunoluong7972]

I count "only" 10 Live and 2 studio recordings from Mouret's Mahler discography

[@peterjohnstone2877]

@@brunoluong7972 There is only the one studio recording. by Walter., the one Dave is reviewing here with the NYPO with Desi Halban issued on Columbia from 1945. Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (last movement sung in English) (a) Desi Halban, Soprano; New York Philharmonic February 6, 1944; Carnegie Hall (live performance) . Source: Private collection Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (b) Desi Halban, Soprano; New York Philharmonic May 10, 1945; Carnegie Hall . 78: Columbia M/MM 589; LX 949/54; LVX 21/6; LX 8522/7 . LP: Columbia/CBS ML 4031; 33CX 1034; Odyssey 32 16 0025; 32 16 0026E (simulated stereo); Philips NBL 5038; GBL 5608; CBS/Sony 20AC 1956 . CD: CBS/Sony 32DC 578; MPK 46450; SRCR 8686; SMK 64450; Sony SX13K 92460 Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (last movement perhaps sung in English) (c) Desi Halban, Soprano; Philadelphia Orchestra February 4 or 5, 1946; [Academy of Music] (live broadcast) . Source: Private collection Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (d) Desi Halban, Soprano; Boston Symphony Orchestra March 25, 1947; Symphony Hall (live performance) . CD: Seven Seas KICC K30Y 305; Dante LYS 315 Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (e) Irmgard Seefried, Soprano; Vienna Philharmonic August 24, 1950; Festspielhaus, Salzburg (live performance) . CD: Varèse Sarabande VCD 47228; MCA Classics MCAD 42337; Originals SH 836 Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (f) Annelies Kupper, Soprano; Städtisches Opernhaus- und Museumsorchester, Frankfurt September 4, 1950; Frankfurt (live performance) . CD: Greenhill GH 0001 Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (g) Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Soprano; Concertgebouw Orchestra June 6, 1952; Kurhaus Scheveningen (live performance) . CD: Globe GLOBE 6905; RN Music MCCL97018 Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (h) Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Soprano; Concertgebouw Orchestra [June 1952; Concertgebouw] (live performance) . CD: Music & Arts CD 1090(2) Note: The date for this performance-given as June 19, 1952-is in question; nevertheless, this performance seems different from that of June 6, 1952, and almost certainly derives from the concerts Walter gave with the Concertgebouw in June 1952. Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (i) Irmgard Seefried, Soprano; New York Philharmonic January 4, 1953; Carnegie Hall (live performance) . LP: Seven Seas K22C 182 . CD: Music & Arts CD 656 Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (j) Maria Stader, Soprano; Orchestre National de la R. T. F. May 12, 1955; Théâtre des Champs-Élysées (live performance) . LP: Educational Media Associates EMA 105 . CD: Nuova Era 2233; Allegro CDO 1050 Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (k) Hilde Güden, Soprano; Vienna Philharmonic November 6, 1955; Musikvereinssaal (live performance) . CD: Deutsche Grammophon 435 334-2; andante 4973 Mahler: Symphony Nr. 4 (l) Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Soprano; Vienna Philharmonic May 29, 1960; Musikvereinssaal (live performance) . LP: Bruno Walter Society BWS 705 . CD: Music & Arts CD 705; Hunt/Arkadia CD 767 ________________________________________________________________________ There also is a live recording which emerged this discography once published from Italy on RAI (Italian Radio) from 1952. This makes 12 live recordings.

[@davidaltschuler9687]

This is the first of your Reference Recording videos where I don't think you made your case. Granting there is not always a clear single option, but in my 50 years of collecting classical, and with friends doing the same, we all knew Walter's recording but it was not the acknowledged reference that Szell was... and is, and that includes references and comparisons from published reviewers. IMHO! (But thanks for the video.)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, but as I said, this was as special case where Walter was certainly the reference before those later stereo recordings arrived, and once they did they eclipsed it right away. I think I was pretty clear about that. Afterwards, Szell was highly regarded in the US and UK (Penquin), but not so much elsewhere, especially as by then we had Kubelik, Haikink, Kletzki, etc.

[@peacearchwa5103]

As to the sound of the Bruno Walter/NYPO recording, which of the many releases offer the best sound quality? Many Columbia Masterworks recordings from that era, which the company simultaneously transcribed with 78-rpm and 33-1/3 rpm disc recorders (CBS was preparing for the future release of the LP), can sound fairly decent when properly transferred. I don't know if this studio recording was undertaken in Carnegie Hall or Liederkranz Hall (the CBS studios before they acquired the legendary 30th Street Studios).

[@TheGratefulDeadhead]

I guess I've started a cult as per the video, I'm the high priest of the Mengelberg cult. Tho most people would rather listen to that than the horrible Roth/Les Siècles recording. Wonderful video as always Dave.

[@leestamm3187]

The 1939 Mengelberg live recording is among my favorite Mahler 4's. I don't care about the tempo bending, which I think just reinforces the childlike atmosphere, and Jo Vincent's vocal is one of the best ever, capturing the innocent lilt that eludes most others. Mengelberg knew the 4th inside out. That recording is of the 110th of his 112 performances of the 4th with the Concertgebouw. Fun fact: Mahler used sleigh bells to represent the small bells on a jester's hat, which are too tiny to be heard in a concert hall.

[@philipmay3548]

I figured you go for Szell. But, clearly Walter was the most influential Mahler conductor, certainly of his era.

[@johannesortmann2789]

Certainly correct for America and the Commonwealth. In Central Europe there were essentially three recordings available in the mono era: van Beinum, Leopold Ludwig (Dresden) and Karel Sejna (Prague). All beautiful recordings. Bruno Walter's recording was not always easy to obtain here.

[@MrJdaniel1371]

Not just a reference, but my go-to, all short-comings notwithstanding. Sweetest high strings towards the end of the slow mov't, not to mention those yawning, late-afternoon celli in the first mov't, and the the bittersweet woodwind solos in the 2nd. Seems like instrumentalists were more individually imaginative in the early to mid-century. They plays as if turning character sketches into music, Carl Stalling-style.

[@zdl1965]

I remember this recording, which I had bought for myself as a completion of high school exams indulgence. It was a budget-priced Odyssey LP which did not have great sound but now bears a certain sentimental value. Thanks for reminding me of this!

[@mlconlanmeister]

You know, whenever Stephen whips out his Colbert Questionnaire, the "song" that comes to my mind is the Mahler 4th: there is something perpetual about the music (inspired admittedly by a comment made by maestro Muti somewhere in the YouTubiverse). Anyway, the Kletzki was the first Mahler anything I purchased, and it's beautiful.

[@pierrevigna]

In Europe, it seems to me that the reference recording was O. Klemperer and E. Schwarzkopf. For the same reasons you highlight for B. Walter. Heavy marketing (W. Legge / EMI), Klemperer credentials with Mahler, and very good performance even though everyone acknowledged that E. Schwarzkopf was probably not the most suitable voice for the finale

[@markritchie9590]

What are the Mahler Reference Recordings? In addition to this one I’d suggest: Mahler 2 Klemperer Mahler 3 Bernstein NYPO Mahler 8 Solti That’s it. Many many great recordings of the symphonies but just these three that really “stick”

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It would be nice if you looked at the playlist first.

[@tomasfagerberg6323]

I think it would be interesting to hear your list of the best 10 composers in different criteria and start with the 10 best orchestrators. Sorry for my bad english.

[@ΒασίλειοςΚουτουλίδης]

Mahler and Ravel definitely on that list

[@tomasfagerberg6323]

@@ΒασίλειοςΚουτουλίδης And perhaps Rimsky-Korsakov and Berlioz. R Strauss? Debussy?

[@xtrapnel68]

Wow, I had no idea the Szell had been so popular. I had always assumed his Mahler was kind of a joke -- the 6th is one of the stiffest Mahler recordings I've ever heard. Ugh, well, de gustibus, etc anyway. I early imprinted on the Karajan, which is a bit musty in hindsight, I suppose, although no one beats his opening of the heavens moment in the 3rd movement. The one I return to the most now is Abravanel -- it has a high level of funk, in all senses of the word, but it avoids too much high-mindedness. Relistening to the Kletzki now. Pretty magical!

[@gavingriffiths2633]

And Reiner recorded Mahler 4? I think.....or have I misremembered.........

[@itsagasgasgas]

Indeed he did. With Lisa Della Casa on RCA Living Stereo of course

[@edwardcasper5231]

Yes he did.

[@edwardcasper5231]

One reason why Mahler's 4th was recorded as often as it was is because it could fit on a single LP.

[@warrenhapke2091]

Yes he did, with Lisa Della Casa as the soprano.

[@daawesomedude6119]

Although Walter had a step-up over Szell chronologically, I still feel as though Szell's late arrival ended up outshining Walter in the end. However, I'm surprised Szell's recording of the 10th's Adagio and Purgatorio aren't more popular.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I wouldn't dispute that, but as I keep saying, it's not the point, which was how a less than good performance could be a reference recording for a time. Why does anyone have a problem with this?

[@daawesomedude6119]

@@DavesClassicalGuide It’s not that anyone has a problem with it; it’s more that if 100 people in the comments make a small mention of it, from your perspective, it seems like there’s a lot of pushback, but in reality it’s just all of us collectively verbalizing the same thought process and the effect probably seems overwhelming when pointed at a singular person (you).

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

If one is going that far back for a reference recording, why not go just seven years earlier and cite Mengelberg?

[@MDK2_Radio]

He mentioned it. It wasn’t readily available which is requisite of a reference recording.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

@@MDK2_Radio I missed that.

[@frankgyure3154]

Dave,,I made an earlier comment supporting Szell/Raskin as the true reference recording. Others have pushed back against you with this choice. What say you?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Listen to the video, first, and read the comments. I've already answered this.