Reflections of a Mormon Historian - Sandra Tanner Reviews "Chosen Path" | Ep. 1867

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Mormon Stories Podcast

Mormon Stories Podcast

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 134
@KaylynPNW
@KaylynPNW 7 ай бұрын
I can never get enough Sandra. I love and admire her so very much. ❤
@anthonyaduhene
@anthonyaduhene 7 ай бұрын
An awesome lady
@nute742
@nute742 5 ай бұрын
I saw her at sizzler the other day and said hi! (lol)
@donnellallan
@donnellallan 7 ай бұрын
Sandra Tanner is such an exemplary human. Any podcast is a great podcast when Sandra is involved. Thank you all for this one. 💜
@honder1866
@honder1866 7 ай бұрын
Love you, Sandra! God bless you!
@markkrispin6944
@markkrispin6944 7 ай бұрын
The Tanners are the GOAT.
@impossiblemel7
@impossiblemel7 7 ай бұрын
Sandra is a treasure! I’m so grateful for her and all her work
@paulad.4578
@paulad.4578 7 ай бұрын
I heard of Gerald and Sandra Tanner back in the late 1970s shortly after my older brother converted to the LDS church. My parents, Christian, were devastated. They found the Tanner's book, "Mormonism, Shadow or Reality," in our church library. My parents tried to get my brother to look at the book, but that was a no-go. That being said, they were greatly happy to have the information on LDS history and our family was grateful for the Tanner's work.
@lornasleeper7262
@lornasleeper7262 7 ай бұрын
Did your brother continue in lds?
@paulad.4578
@paulad.4578 7 ай бұрын
@@lornasleeper7262 Sadly, yes. He has three children from his first wife. All devoutly LDS. After his 1st marriage collapsed, he then married another woman, a real sweetheart. It was both of their 2nd marriages.
@lornasleeper7262
@lornasleeper7262 7 ай бұрын
@@paulad.4578 I'm sorry for the pain that has caused your family. Prayers....
@ATiredMom
@ATiredMom 5 ай бұрын
​@@paulad.4578is your brother in Utah?
@paulad.4578
@paulad.4578 5 ай бұрын
@@ATiredMom No. But most of his kids are. My brother lives in Southern California.
@pamelatd
@pamelatd 7 ай бұрын
Sandra Tanner is such a gift. So happy to have a new episode with her!
@jeannycastro2379
@jeannycastro2379 7 ай бұрын
I had no clue Sandra was going to be on!! I would have been waiting with huge anticipation!! She is my hero!! The only person in the whole wide world and my whole life I’ve ever wanted to meet. She is our treasure!! I wish Jerald was here also. Both of them carried me through a very dark time in me life and pulled me out. They don’t even know it but I’m sure they’ve done that over and over again for so many others like me. I could sit by her feet and listen to her till the cows come home!!! Love you Sandra!!! You are my rock of truth and bravery!
@LazarWolf07
@LazarWolf07 7 ай бұрын
Truth
@shebamaree9026
@shebamaree9026 6 ай бұрын
you praise people that you don't even know. only through a screen you enter their fake world. you would sit at her feet.these people did not save you! or pull you up. seek God and His only begotten Son that did die for you!
@jeannycastro2379
@jeannycastro2379 6 ай бұрын
@@shebamaree9026 you reject/criticize people you don’t even know. only through a screen you enter their fake world. You would not sit at her feet . these people did not damn you! Or pushed you down. seek lies and their god. ------- I can literally turn it right back at ya. You don’t know her personally either.
@LazarWolf07
@LazarWolf07 6 ай бұрын
@@shebamaree9026 Aren’t you doing the same thing? At least everyone here can see that these are real people that exist and through their imperfect efforts have spent years of their lives striving to do good for others in whatever capacity they can. I would love to see a video interview of God or Jesus or any supposed deity giving us insight and perspective and encouragement on how to make sense of this crazy existence we call life. That would be a million times more valuable today than any books or sermons claiming to be from God’s mouth to our ears. John and Sandra aren’t even attempting to do that, they are just a couple people doing a little good everyday and it has make a significant difference to a lot of people.
@derekbeauchamp2409
@derekbeauchamp2409 7 ай бұрын
It was Sandra’s books that helped me to leave the church in 1986. Beautiful lady !
@jameswalberg3265
@jameswalberg3265 7 ай бұрын
Sandra is ALWAYS a must watch. Her wisdom and demeanor are so calming. Your camera quality is better than ever. Production values rock.
@markcroshaw
@markcroshaw 7 ай бұрын
Hearing Sandra’s insights into Mormon history are so fascinating! I love this.
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 7 ай бұрын
I just adore Sandra
@cwb1400
@cwb1400 7 ай бұрын
Sandra tanner was instrumental in getting me out of the church. I had so many questions and issues and her website led me to my own research. I’m grateful everyday for her and Jerald’s in depth information. It saved me from the Mormon cult that was destroying my life.
@mosheedy9862
@mosheedy9862 7 ай бұрын
Great to see Sandra Tanner!!!!!
@jmadsen6118
@jmadsen6118 7 ай бұрын
National Treasure Sandra Tanner has saved more people than she can comprehend. In 1974 at the age of 14, I left Mormonism over doctrinal challenges at great personal expense. I didn't find the Tanners until the 80s but they reinforced my convictions. Thank God for their critucal thinking and unparalleled bravery. Deep respect!!
@TheMormonAtheist
@TheMormonAtheist 7 ай бұрын
10 am…. Hit that like button. I can’t get enough of this stuff.
@JC-vq2cs
@JC-vq2cs 7 ай бұрын
100%
@rooheath
@rooheath 7 ай бұрын
Sandra Tanner! Thank you for everything you are and everything you’ve done - you are a hero and an inspiration x
@townsendv58
@townsendv58 7 ай бұрын
Really great to see the awesome Sandra Tanner again. Excellent shoectonight.
@booswanger3801
@booswanger3801 7 ай бұрын
I’m a never-mo but have been following Mormon Stories for years. I have always enjoyed every interview with Sandra Tanner. She is a remarkable woman and I have so much respect for her. I’m currently in the process of deconstructing from a high demand fundamentalist Christian upbringing. I hope to be able to retain my faith in Christ and look to Sandra as an example. If my journey takes another path, I’m ok with that too.
@pamelaq6185
@pamelaq6185 7 ай бұрын
THEE Sandra Tanner is right ✅️ such a legend! I'll always tune in for Sandra ❤
@anandrew6641
@anandrew6641 7 ай бұрын
Please have more Sandra Tanner!!!
@tonyharvell739
@tonyharvell739 7 ай бұрын
Always great to see and hear Sandra Tanner. She and Jerold have made an enormous contribution to Mormon history. She is a gracious woman. Although I may not share her religious perspective I admire her integrity and sincerity, and her courage.
@EleanorMclean-ns1yl
@EleanorMclean-ns1yl 7 ай бұрын
Love Sandra Tanner , Ive enjoyed learning from her on Mormon stories podcasts , this episode is so interesting. Thank you for the information on these books. Going through a journey of realisation, grief devastation, at this time after trying to defend the church for years I can’t emotionally cope with defending any longer. Listening to Mormon s p helps me knowing I’m not alone. Thank you all
@mrsspeech
@mrsspeech 7 ай бұрын
Love Sandra Tanner. Such a light to the world.
@jeannycastro2379
@jeannycastro2379 7 ай бұрын
I wish we could have a Mormon stories episode with both Sandra and Michael. What a Mormon stories that would be!!!!
@LazarWolf07
@LazarWolf07 7 ай бұрын
What a dream come true that would be
@LazarWolf07
@LazarWolf07 7 ай бұрын
I seriously get a little choked up every time I just see that Sandra is on a new episode of MSP! The Tanners are possibly the most significant and legendary Mormon figures in the last 100 years. I am so grateful to you John for being the kind of person that has been a bridge between such amazing people like Sandra and DMQ. She is truly one of a kind just like DMQ was one of a kind. My soul leaps out to hug them every time I see or hear about them. Thank you al! You have all given this stranger some of my most treasured gifts in my life.
@bodytrainer1crane730
@bodytrainer1crane730 7 ай бұрын
So excited to read Chosen Path and I admire Sandra and Gerald sooooo much!!! ❤️❤️❤️
@styphlynne8253
@styphlynne8253 7 ай бұрын
Its so sad Quinn didnt have John, Sandra & Jerald and so many other resources before he died.
@explorethishumanlife
@explorethishumanlife 7 ай бұрын
Sandra Tanner is a gem of a human. ❤️ I would love to see more of her on future Mormon Stories episodes.
@Zeett09
@Zeett09 7 ай бұрын
I agree. She said she would entertain possible future interviews. She is still sharp and has a wonderful communication style. I’m hoping she will do a few interviews now and then.
@katiecrozier3179
@katiecrozier3179 7 ай бұрын
More Sandra!!!!
@PsiPhy
@PsiPhy 7 ай бұрын
Two people in SLC UT who saved me from years with a cult! Many thanks
@styphlynne8253
@styphlynne8253 7 ай бұрын
Sandra & her husband Jerald helped me in coming out of mormonism decades ago. I would sneak away from home husband to Utah Lighthouse Ministries as if I were a sneaking school girl. LOL - I then began taking classes called Fresh Start in Ogden UT. My life changed for the best when my name & number was finally removed and I was free! Many Thnx UT LtHs
@RebeccaRaven
@RebeccaRaven 7 ай бұрын
Oh, so awesome to hear from Sandra!
@MerilynRowan
@MerilynRowan 7 ай бұрын
I’m in my late 60s and I am really starting to live in fear of the aging process. I guess that’s because my father became such a crackpot in his later years and my mother’s dementia is so advanced. But every time I see and hear Sandra Tanner, I kind of take a deep breath and remind myself that people can be so sharp and articulate well into their 80s. I pray I will have half the sharp faculties as she has when I’m her age. I could listen to her for hours and hours. And I suspect she will still be able to carry on this kind of interview and pull names and dates and historical facts and conclusions out of her head in 10 years just as fast as she does now. I love her so much.
@TalismanianDevil
@TalismanianDevil 7 ай бұрын
It was likely due to their diet. Doctors find heavy metals and microscopic obligate parasites in patients suffering from MS, Parkinson’s, Dementia, Autism and Alzheimer’s all the time. Drinking filtered water and eating an organic, anti-parasitic diet with foods high in tannin really helps. Limiting the use of pharmaceutical drugs to only what’s essential and doing a parasite cleanse annually has been beneficial for many people suffering from all of the above. 😊
@jmadsen6118
@jmadsen6118 7 ай бұрын
Sandra is inspiring on so many levels!!
@denisehart5875
@denisehart5875 7 ай бұрын
As a never Mormon, I love, love, love Sandra Tanner!
@Sadie37
@Sadie37 7 ай бұрын
Love you Sandra!!!!🩷
@susanheminger338
@susanheminger338 7 ай бұрын
If I am lucky enough to live as long as Sandra Tanner, I will be blessed if I have just half of her poise, wisdom, and incredible memory recall. Thank you for having her on. And, Sandra, thank you for continuing to share your gifts with the world. (With love from a Never-Mo Christian who is deconstructing the Evangelical fundamentalism of my upbringing.)
@booswanger3801
@booswanger3801 7 ай бұрын
I’m right there with you! There’s beauty and pain in that deconstruction process. The pain is knowing that I was never taught to think for myself and the beauty is now I can. I hope you find what you’re looking for and that it brings you immense peace 🥰
@harlanlang6556
@harlanlang6556 7 ай бұрын
Sandra is such a down to earth person! She seems to know who she is and can rationalize her sense of reality, of truth. It's fascinating that she sees the parallel between Quinn's continued belief in Mormonism and her continued Christian beliefs when they both had access to the same history of Mormonism and Christianity. I think that this is one of the great mysteries of being human. We're all rational to some degree, but then there's the other side of our nature which is not rational, but includes all those human qualities of love, loyalty, generosity, humility, devotion, aesthetics, and sense of the mystical. Religion includes a combination of rationality and all these non-rational qualities. Mormon Stories has a universal appeal because the issues of Mormonism are universal: What is "truth"? What are the origins of religious truth? How should we understand ancient religious texts? Can a society exist without some form of religion? Is group loyalty more important than loyalty to the truth? Loyalty seems to be a big issue with Mormonism and all religions. The struggle to go against a toxic loyalty is one of the great struggles of life.
@jswallet
@jswallet 7 ай бұрын
This was a fantastic conversation! Sandra is a scholar and a gem of a person. I loved the insight from the discussion of the intersection of Quinn and Tanner's lives and work.
@whitesalamander
@whitesalamander 7 ай бұрын
Love the wisdom, warmth, and mutual respect among these Mormon Culture participants ❤📚
@sc766
@sc766 6 ай бұрын
Love this interview and a book review with Sandra Tanner! She is very graceful and respectful of D. Michael Quinn! Barbara shared great points and insightful views as well! Thank you MS for all these amazing podcasts!
@markkrispin6944
@markkrispin6944 7 ай бұрын
Sandra Tanner is a person of class and respect. Too much the Mormon Cult Leaders are not like Sandra Tanner. They can learn a great deal from the Tanners. long live Queen Sandra Tanner. I have just about off al D. Michael Quinn's books. Quinn deserved so much better and tons of more respect from the LDS Church and the leaders. RIP D. Michael Quinn!
@styphlynne8253
@styphlynne8253 7 ай бұрын
If only he would have had the resources we do now!
@markkrispin6944
@markkrispin6944 7 ай бұрын
So true.​@@styphlynne8253
@michaelwgrover
@michaelwgrover 7 ай бұрын
What a fantastic episode. I learned so much about both Quinn and the Tanners from this episode alone and the conversations and stories were so enjoyable to listen to.
@overthemoo
@overthemoo 7 ай бұрын
LOVING this episode! Honestly wish it was longer. However, this was my first time ~meeting Sandra, so I’ll definitely search for her elsewhere on your channel. :)
@r1kk3rs
@r1kk3rs 7 ай бұрын
Wow, another killer lineup! Awesome 👌🏼 ❤.
@marfiskey3102
@marfiskey3102 7 ай бұрын
LOVED hearing Sandra again.. I love her knowledge
@mckster56
@mckster56 7 ай бұрын
Sandra tanner is our treasure
@styphlynne8253
@styphlynne8253 7 ай бұрын
UTAH !
@RWorley3sl
@RWorley3sl 6 ай бұрын
Im happy that your getting history through the people who lived it. Very vital.
@HugsView
@HugsView 7 ай бұрын
A never mo here but love the Tanners
@juliemartin5397
@juliemartin5397 6 ай бұрын
This never Mormon loves Sandra Tanner I could literally listen to her all day. So learned, so wise, warm and fun 🇬🇧❤️
@janedanced5117
@janedanced5117 7 ай бұрын
Oh my, I just got off the episode for a minute and when I came back in, I hade to wait for a church (LDS) advertisement. John, they timed that specifically for your show. Looks like a new ad. Ha ha
@vickiegreen5107
@vickiegreen5107 7 ай бұрын
I get those adverts too x
@KNFS7994
@KNFS7994 7 ай бұрын
Sandra is the same age as my mother. I wish I could hear my mother say similar things as Sandra.
@gumbycat5226
@gumbycat5226 7 ай бұрын
This is my favourite interview since Patrick Mason. Sandra Tanner is an impressive person and comes across as both balanced and generous. I have some slight thoughts which might be relevant. If your life has really been led by the spirit then doctrine is immaterial. You will know if your life has been this way. You will also know that, while the church may be a conduit, it is not the only one and there can be a full spiritual life, with revelation and miracles, outside the church, even outside any organized religion. If you haven't had this as a reality in your life, then doctrine and belief become important, and your membership, or break from membership, becomes central. You feel vindicated when you leave but you also feel cheated.
@gdog3finally
@gdog3finally 5 ай бұрын
I have been tuned into Mormon Stories periodically over 11 years from frequent to selective to appreciative of some content. Sandra Tanner has always been the best content.
@marthacarlston4779
@marthacarlston4779 7 ай бұрын
Thank you Sandra. Wonderful.
@ellamarie84
@ellamarie84 6 ай бұрын
I'm making my way through all of Sandra's Mormon Stories videos. Her memory recall astounds me! She talks about things in such detail, it sounds like it happened days ago--not decades ago! She is so sharp!
@bewitched3912
@bewitched3912 7 ай бұрын
In supreme gratitude to Sandra Tanner, thank you for all your intelligence and fearlessness!! You are a wonderful example to us all!! Watching on Sunday 😊
@marclegarreta
@marclegarreta 6 ай бұрын
Sandra has taught me so much! I enjoy learning about the LDS Church. I know so many LDS people that I love. I hope they are never harmed by the church.
@BirdNerdJC
@BirdNerdJC 7 ай бұрын
Thank you Sandra for your continuing to engage and educate. I was wondering if there is a way to still order you and Gerald's pamphlets somewhere. Thank you.
@AlJorgensen
@AlJorgensen 6 ай бұрын
The fact that the Tanners did all that they did and how they did it is incredible. I wish I had not paid attention to all the barriers the church put up about their work early on. Finding copies of their work is challenging. God bless the Tanners.
@jessicac6787
@jessicac6787 7 ай бұрын
Yay Sandra ❤❤
@ATiredMom
@ATiredMom 5 ай бұрын
Just learned about the Tanners as I have just recently had missionaries coming to talk to me. And now I've binged all the mormon stories episodes with Sandra. I'm a never mormon and also already adoring her and their dedication to the truth.
@TheBoss-ie8dj
@TheBoss-ie8dj 7 ай бұрын
I sure hope to meet her someday...
@nocohomebuyers
@nocohomebuyers 2 ай бұрын
Sandra is a hero of mine. She is the leader is Mormon history. I've had the great privilege of meeting Sandra is 1996. She is a lion.
@barbararicker2565
@barbararicker2565 7 ай бұрын
Sandra Tanner, yes!
@williamunderwood1762
@williamunderwood1762 6 ай бұрын
In 1993 I went to SLC and visited the Tanners for an afternoon. I was in their living room for three hours interviewing both of them. They were very friendly and welcoming. I still have the tapes.
@aadams8419
@aadams8419 7 ай бұрын
Sandra Tanner is amazing!
@whitajeman
@whitajeman 7 ай бұрын
Quinn and the Tanners- Morman history I didnt know I needed to learn about. Havent been this excited to dive into life work since Carolyn. ❤ just wonderful stuff the last 2 episodes.
@LaLaJonesG
@LaLaJonesG 6 ай бұрын
Love this lady!!!!!!
@mrslonelyhearts
@mrslonelyhearts 7 ай бұрын
I wish Quinns books were all on audible
@elwren75
@elwren75 7 ай бұрын
Has Ken Sanders ever been on Mormon Stories? That would be interesting.
@ghiajohnson1547
@ghiajohnson1547 7 ай бұрын
Oh my! I’ve never been LDS, but I taught at a private school owned. I’m sitting on the floor painting with my granddaughter and I start singing the CTR song😱🤣! And the Red, Yellow, & Blue song-not sure if those are church Primary songs, or if the principal made them up!
@loriallan9294
@loriallan9294 7 ай бұрын
What a beautiful soul!
@yolitaen
@yolitaen 7 ай бұрын
John, check the lyrics of a "lost boy" Merlin Blackmore. He goes as Magic Merlin. He is one of a 150 offspring of Winston Blacmore from Bountiful group in Canada, which is a off shoot of FLDS. It is very interesting
@lebethany53
@lebethany53 7 ай бұрын
Nine minutes in, when they talk about not being able to hold positions when you are divorced… I had been divorced for almost 6 years, and the church still wouldn’t allow me to be a temple worker!! Apparently, my husband cheating on me, and then leaving me for someone else made me unworthy to serve in the house of the Lord😂😂😂😂
@LazarWolf07
@LazarWolf07 7 ай бұрын
I want to laugh along with you while also punching a picture of the prophet at the same time
@davidharrington95
@davidharrington95 6 ай бұрын
Brother Quinn and Sandra Tanner had me down a Rabbit 🐇 🕳 ⛳️ Whole I have never came out of
@LizzaJo
@LizzaJo 7 ай бұрын
John... Thank you!
@jgreen8298
@jgreen8298 7 ай бұрын
What does Sandra think about the episode on Ward about the temple ceremony in the dead sea scrolls?
@dennis-1983
@dennis-1983 6 ай бұрын
You know Sandra is the pioneer.
@rocithebest6520
@rocithebest6520 6 ай бұрын
There is no show without Sandra 🤭
@acetrades1524
@acetrades1524 7 ай бұрын
I love Sandra! Even got to meet her!! I just wish she was able to get more than half way out of a cult.
@boydx4687
@boydx4687 7 ай бұрын
I remember exchanging posts online with Lou Midgely and he put me down because I accidentally spelled his name wrong. Midgley was a turkey.
@elainebeard2922
@elainebeard2922 7 ай бұрын
I find that my feelings about the Church still go through phases.I have not been active for some 4 years.I recall the different information that we get regarding tithing,,pay tithing before we worry about other bills.Will someone please tell me how a church with so much money,property etc they don’t allow Temple recommends to those who are not able to pay. So basically Mormons hsve to pay their way to Heaven! Basically a disgusting way to treat others. What would the Saviour say?
@styphlynne8253
@styphlynne8253 7 ай бұрын
I put that together 20 years ago. Sandra & her husband Jerald helped me in coming out. I would sneak away from home/husband to Utah Lighthouse as if I were a sneaking school girl. LOL I then began taking classes called Fresh Start in Ogden UT. I had paid thousands to tithing, my missionary son in England, fast offerings etc. before I cut my losses and ran the other way. I taught the rest of my kids to be true to their soul #1- I had my name & LD$ # removed. REFRESHING !
@JoyceStarleaf
@JoyceStarleaf 6 ай бұрын
I love her!!!
@winterhail5965
@winterhail5965 7 ай бұрын
Do you have an episode on Relief society presidents or young women leaders? I would love to hear an episode of women who were in the church and leaders.
@jamesnutt4627
@jamesnutt4627 7 ай бұрын
Sandra Tanner please wear a dove of the risen Christ , he hasn’t forgotten you!
@Avenger24601
@Avenger24601 7 ай бұрын
John, I repent. Your beard has grown on me. Keep it if you want. :-)
@DebbieGavin
@DebbieGavin 7 ай бұрын
T really enjoyed this
@j.ahlberg2058
@j.ahlberg2058 7 ай бұрын
❤🎉
@CatskillsGrrl
@CatskillsGrrl 2 ай бұрын
I can’t be the first person to suggest that Michael - subconsciously- wanted to expose the fallacies of the power structure that kept him from his true self.
@letahamilton
@letahamilton 7 ай бұрын
Quinn was excommunicated & was still a believer until the day he died?
@mormonstories
@mormonstories 7 ай бұрын
Yep
@whitajeman
@whitajeman 7 ай бұрын
I was also shocked by this fact. And honestly pretty heart broken over it.
@LazarWolf07
@LazarWolf07 7 ай бұрын
Jump back into the Mormon Stories Archive and you will find a couple episodes of John interviewing DMQ where he explains more about why he still believed etc. I really enjoy hearing his voice and how he described his experiences in life…even though some experiences are kind of heartbreaking too.
@styphlynne8253
@styphlynne8253 7 ай бұрын
@@whitajeman So sad he didnt have the aid we do now!
@jenniferstevenson1618
@jenniferstevenson1618 7 ай бұрын
Polandery, I had no idea. Who knew. Educate us
@LazarWolf07
@LazarWolf07 7 ай бұрын
?
@williamcrockett1202
@williamcrockett1202 7 ай бұрын
I am a convert to the church. I still identify as LDS, but I am no longer active. That being said, it has always been hard to tolerate the Tanners…maybe it’s how I was “raised” upon coming into the church
@jenniferstevenson1618
@jenniferstevenson1618 7 ай бұрын
I fell deeply in love with a devoted morning. Whar I didn't understand was the practice of Polandary. It seems. She has several husband's.. .I didn't know!?!. Why don't you ever talk about that?
@LazarWolf07
@LazarWolf07 7 ай бұрын
?
@katieLavo
@katieLavo 6 ай бұрын
John is looking like a snack, that tan really suits u!
@ApostateApostle
@ApostateApostle 7 ай бұрын
LMAO, now the church is advertising on your videos. AHAHAHAHA
@PsiPhy
@PsiPhy 7 ай бұрын
At ts 7:40 -Didn't most mormon Mom's put a fictitious dream out to their sons that they would be an apostle or prophet? 😂🤣
@froggie9871
@froggie9871 7 ай бұрын
She reminds me of my great aunt who I loved and who I miss so much. One of the smartest women I knew 🫶🏼
@rvierra7235
@rvierra7235 5 ай бұрын
Sandra is an absolute treasure! We love Sandra, wish her the best in retirement, but how can we let her go??? WE CANT!!!!!
@deweydewey6714
@deweydewey6714 6 ай бұрын
Wow! Pioneer apostates buying in more lies and half truths!!!
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