Regular vs Inverse mounting of Subwoofers and Speakers

In this video I go through the positives and negatives of regular and inverse mounting of speaker drivers, in order to educate, inform and assist in enclosure design choices.
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Introduction
0:22 SPL and Sound Quality attributes
0:26 Thermals
3:24 Turbulence and Motor noise
4:51 Waves and Reflections
6:35 Form and Function
4:41 Terminals
7:29 Balance and Weight Distribution
8:33 Space Efficiency and Footprint
9:22 Environment- objects, dust, magnetics, moisture

[@jackhammell1926]

Inverting on a sealed box lets you smell the subs which is very useful...a must have

[@godzillasballs]

Ha ha

[@marvinjgerald6007]

Bs not a significant reason enough to invert a subs.

[@________GHOST________]

BE MORE TECHNICAL EITHER YOU WANT SQ SPL OR MY FAV LOW END BASS IF YOU HAVE NOT TRY ALL THREE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SOUND OUTPUT YOU WANTED AKA WASTE OF MONEY :D LOL

[@DeDandy]

😂😂

[@hydroponic6561]

Thank you for running through all the possibilities and negatives from different mounting, great video!

[@azmike1956]

Even more to consider when building your own speakers! I sometimes mount my crossovers externally for ease of access, never thought of inverted driver mounting. Thanks man!

[@KevinDC5]

Just found your channel about a week ago and I must say I absolutely love it it’s a must to have if you’re like me just entering the technical aspects of signal audio. Peace from Texas! 🤘🏼🤘🏼

[@sylvandemercado7144]

Well done! Precise demonstration

[@gowayneshipman]

Great work! love your presentation !

[@entri8363]

I love your vids man! they're really informing, and usefull. I'm still a bit of a noob at speakers and its mechanics, but I am understanding it way more since I've started your vids! Keep up the great work!

[@3dScience8]

Very very informative video. Well done

[@budgetaudiophile6048]

Always a joy seeing your channel pop up in my feed! I bet inverse mounting would get annoying quickly with my home theater. It'd be cool to look at the backs of the subs but I bet when those 10 to 14 hertz tones start hitting, that chuffing sound would get old quickly.

[@Dakoustics]

Yeah, and it'd be particularly irritating if they throw out torroidal vortices, getting a puff in the face is more likely irritating than immersive.

[@budgetaudiophile6048]

@@Dakoustics Would that even be feasible given the space of the area and with all of my subs being sealed? Currently the nearest sub to my main listening position is 14 feet. The rear subs are nearly 30 feet away. If that's possible I'd almost wish for it to happen, LOL. Multiple times so I can experience it, then confirm it, then film it.

[@seancarroll8103]

Great stuff.

[@michaeljohngalagata214]

Nice explanation" I learned a lot.

[@blade4363]

Agree with some of the stuff you’re saying about sealed enclosures if you inverter Sub In a world tuned ported box my experiences have been very positive in fact better sounding then it would be mounted the other way of course I’m talking about high powered competition equipment

[@jjbled]

Ive had same question to myself. I read and see opinions. And i tried it. Had figure out the correct wiring n phase. But i injured my leads inverted had to do direct leads and after that inverted was no issue just amp adjustment. Im using a huge ported box.

[@Petrezen1982]

Invert mounted speaker in 4th order subwoofer box is my next project. Looks nice on WInISD and has very useful features like good Xmax control.

[@workingclassperson2124]

Right on man! Cool vid as always. You speak well and I can easily understand everything you say. Boot :) over here we call the trunk. Just Incase some of your viewers get confused

[@Dakoustics]

Yeah, I usually use one or the other and clarify, this was the third attempt at the recording and it must've slipped in.

[@vikassm]

Awesome video! I like the idea of inverse mounting. Practically, a down firing (up-firing?), extended cabinet (like an H frame) inverse mounted driver would have all the thermal advantages and none of the mechanical disadvantages as discussed.

[@marvinjgerald6007]

True but the Sound Quality definition level decreases with reflective/echo wave cancellations and so forth. The best configuration is a non-inverted driver with an extended or large ported enclosure.

[@sc0or]

Vent holes are for increasing of Qms (because an air damping factor goes low). What we see at 4:30 is an increasing of Qms and reduction of Qes in order to keep Qts at a desired level. Of course this needs to keep an amplifier and a crossover (in case of a multi band speaker architecture) output impedance very low (no tube amplifiers, folks), but at the same time this increases a linearity of excursion and group delay (that makes a bass faster and more clear).

[@carlthornton3076]

Very Good!..

[@mjl6425]

When inverting the sub in a 4th order enclosure, can you mount it traditionally? With the sub screwed in on the sealed side?

[@highhat5229]

It would be cool if you did an Isobaric pros and cons video, (cone to cone, cone to magnet and magnet to magnet) And maybe a enclosure over view/pros and cons video (front loaded horn, rear loaded horn, reflex, W bins, scoops)

[@Dakoustics]

I could do one for face-to-face right now, but I'd have to think a bit more about magnet to magnet. I've got both types of enclosures, one's a tiny 6th order I made, the others are isobarik loudspeakers magnet to magnet.

[@ainemark7296]

Great video!... Do you have a video about a sealed speaker with a passive radiator?

[@Easydread]

Yo its a old video but you have taught me alot on your video.... such a simple video & great information, cheers i will subscribe if your still around 👍🏽

[@Dakoustics]

Cheers, yeah still around, busy with uni and such, only really get one video out per month, overdue right now lmao

[@DrewAk49]

Awesome descriptions and pictures, thank you! Not all the way through yet, but any point of a dust cap or fact there isnt one when inverted?

[@Beatsfromthestreet]

Damn I saw someone bumping 2 15s inverted. It really Vibrates my store from distance

[@foobart8746]

Got mine inverted in 2005 Denali 2 15 American bass banging hard

[@kil-tha-kid2799]

What do you think about Bazooka tubes non amplified. Can they really do a great job ? ( with great after market 10in subs)

[@FrozenPaint]

Curious why you didn't take displacement into account when discussing the amount of space used by each mounting type.

[@JasonKerlin]

Becausee the video is about mounting position, not displacement. It would matter with the larger subs and by larger I mean displacement of the whole speaker, not just cone displacement. .1 cu ft would only change a typical box alignment by a few percent at best. When the sub takes up 1.5 cubic feet (.5 cubic meters) then displacement would need to be considered. Or if the speaker is a large part of the overall volume of the box. At least that has been my experience. Good day.

[@Dakoustics]

Main reason why is I'd say changing enclosure volume by something like 10% barely affects tuning, it's just as common to be out in terms of measurement. Speaker enclosures only change drastically once +/-30% is considered. It would matter for a perfectionist.

[@FrozenPaint]

Perhaps I'm being pedantic but not accounting for changes like that only compounds the issue of tolerance stacking you mentioned. Regardless, I appreciate you responding to my question.

[@Gr8rome407]

@@FrozenPaint Would never be a problem unless u have MASSIVE subwoofers but then u would have a MASSIVE enclosure so prob just as well not to mention lol

[@naldiproduction7294]

Wich is better for big bass?

[@nickparkin8527]

My speaker mentor who is teaching me all about horn design said that he was actually using an inverse mounted subwoofer because when you inverse mount it it doesn’t play any of the high frequencies. Even if you have a crossover on it it’s still playing some higher frequencies to a degree so by inverse mounting it all you hear is the low end because all of the high frequencies drop off and you’re never actually listening to the speaker “on axis” which is where the highest frequencies play the loudest

[@Dakoustics]

Neat trick for a faux low pass, alot of sound does come from the dust cap, so essentially covering it with a magnet should block alot of the highs. I just use regular mounting for the driver in my bass horn, though it is a folded horn, so the highs mostly get lost inside the enclosure above 200Hz.

[@mikay877]

we used WSX,i like soft bass

[@scamchan]

Did you cover the sound benefits of either one?

[@Reedic20]

I have ran them both ways could not tell any difference in SQ or SPL both the same if you closed your eyes you could not tell the difference. I currently run a Isobaric clamshell setup in a ported box 2 10s on a 4K amp a lot of people argue about that setup on how there is little gains I beg to differ and probably never heard a setup like this and are simply repeating what they read or what someone has told them because that’s a night and day difference.

[@ricefamily1381]

So is it better to invert subs , 2-10 ct messo's in ported box, should I invert or put them in regular way???

[@matt6951]

I have a zvx in a smaller than recommended box( in a 2.6 box, calls for 3) I inverted the sub to compensate for the box volume.. it sounds worse.. not as loud especially at lower volumes, and more mechanical noise. I’m thinking about just stacking a few 3/4” mdf spacers under the sub, and running it like that. Each one is .05 cubes.. so I wonder if that even matters? Maybe the smaller box benefits my set up running 3k (smart 3 bass)watts to it? Who knows

[@barryadcock7992]

If it is a ported box it may be easier & give you a better result if you just remove the port tubes & seal the hole . Most subs require significantly less space for sealed enclosures than they do for ported ones. Idk your setup but maybe this will help

[@shyne_rds5446]

I have a question how do you know if your subwoofer doesn't have enough air flow. Cause I'm have a problem with my subwoofer when I at a high volume the speakers makes a pluk sound. Few people told me not enogh airflow in the box

[@Dakoustics]

Hmm, pluk sound is a tad odd, by air flow do you mean the box is choking the vents on the subs, or the box is too small for the sub? It could possibly be amplifier clipping too. Can't imagine a pluk sound other than plucking the strings of a guitar, and not sure how a sub could make that noise.

[@ragextico]

If you want to invert your subwoofer, would you have to keep the same dimensions for what the sub needs or can you have the enclosure be smaller? (Ported)

[@Dakoustics]

SLIGHTLY smaller, but really depending on the speaker could be 1L smaller or less. Unless its a 2000w 18" ferrite sub, in which case difference is closer to 10L.

[@YusufGinnah]

Yeah, the volume that was occupied by the woofer is now filled with air, air which will most certainly increase the total volume of air held within the enclosure, However, in real world terms, it's a negligible change that falls well within the tolerances allowed (when designing your ideal enclosure).

[@95Sn95]

Wonder how you could cool a sub with the vehicles Air con, guess you could put a refrigeration coil inside the box and plumb it into the system. I've heard of people tossing the idea around of liquid cooled driver so if you put a cooling coil around the pole but had the liquid cooled by the Air con. Like the "active" intercoolers used on some performance forced induction cars. May have to adjust driver gap tolerances?

[@Dakoustics]

Main thing with any "sub ambient" cooling, water will condense on anything cold, which can lead to glues failing, box absorbing water or even mould growing in the box. Good thing with airconditioners, is the air is dried already, so no moisture should collect. Best way of cooling a sub is to keep the air around the coil as cool as possible, by either cooling the magnet, or pumping cool air straight up the pole vent, although blocking the pole vent this way could lead to a missing dust cap

[@876caraudio4]

Inverting signal can clear up some of that, rather than pushing in the box...I inverted my subs and inverted the signal at the terminal and no audio able difference than conventionally mounted.. port frequency change due to ratio of box bigger..a lot more cooling capability for coil..

[@marvinjgerald6007]

Inverting the system’s signal polarity has nada or zero loss or gain. Inverting a driver decreases Sound Quality definition considerably more than you’d think.

[@tonywoodward1983]

If inverting would it not be best to recuce the cu in of the inside box

[@anthonyguilianoii8836]

I did not know that marine woofers are designed to only mount standard. I just purchased a Jeep and I am currently researching marine audio since it already rained 2 times inside the Jeep 😆

[@adriancrosslan7]

What about a ported box with the subs mounted with the magnet in the box.

[@Dakoustics]

Temperature is no longer an issue, though all other factors apply still.

[@JasonKerlin]

Just one nitpic at around 530 when talking about the behavior of the waves in the box, either way the waves are interfereing and transferring through the cone regardless of mounting. The only real difference is the magnet and basket diffracting the sound and the motor noise being much more evident. Seems you said that but in a different way I suppose, Great video, mate. How is that horn sounding?? Mabye do a video with a showcase of range and intensity. Have a good day.

[@Dakoustics]

Yeah, the magnet diffracting was essentially what I was getting at. The horn had a 200Hz peak with a standard small magnet driver, but when I put in the 812 it was such an obstacle standing waves couldn't form. I've got some in-room sweeps done, though I'm never satisfied due to how drastically levels change throughout the room, It's hard to choose where to consider it a baseline, sounds like +20dB from the middle of the room to the corner. I'm building a dual 18" box now as a comparison, so I might just wait and see how they compare.

[@JasonKerlin]

@@Dakoustics Will that be the same design but for two 18's? I would love to see something like that, and can't wait for the videos on the comparisons. It is relatable that satisfaction is a seemingly impossible goal to achieve when pursuing sonic excellence, as everything possible affects the sound and not in easily identifiable ways. Your videos are excellent and I love that you don't polish the reality out of them. Thanks for the reply, man. Have a great day.

[@marsalan4982]

Hlo dear sir. Sir if you don't mind ? Can you make 10" inch subwoofer box design like svs pb 16-ultra .

[@joebrooklyn5865]

Definitely in side look at rla sound systems

[@twotoneprixflako956]

can i reverse my subs ? i have 2 12” db drives g2 on a custom box tune to 33hz

[@Dakoustics]

Possibly, but you'd need to make sure they seal properly

[@laceymcreynolds736]

I do have a few questions if had a Email, would like to get ya opinion. If not I understand. Thanks

[@yeanlingsoda359vortexcars8]

2 3k watt 15s in a qbomb box a good combo? For 600$

[@mjl6425]

How do you invert the sub and still sit flush with the wood when there’s that raised lip on the outside of the basket?

[@Dakoustics]

A few options, spacer ring/gasket, foam sealing tape and torque it down nice and snug, or mount it from inside the box.

[@mjl6425]

@@Dakoustics Is that how most people do it

[@Dakoustics]

@@mjl6425 Yeah, or even route grooves into the box, although that might require still having the baffle in one piece to use the centre point, could be done freehand though will likely come out messy, some speakers if they come with removable rubber gaskets they could be flipped around, so for example if they have text on them, instead of cone side it's magnet side

[@mjl6425]

@@Dakoustics What about just mounting it normally in the sealed section of a 4th order bandpass box? With just the magnet in the ported section?

[@classic88warrior83]

🤔🤔🤔I might try this

[@rossg9363]

There is metal particles in dust to that would prematurely wear the sub inverting it, i know this because i have a magnet on my ebike on the speed sensor that i have to wipe off periodically that metal dust is magnetized to it.

[@Flaco7136]

Yooooo what about ported box???

[@Dakoustics]

Main jist is sealed is better in most cases except for heat, but since ported have the port, heat isn't an issue so mounting it standard should be fine.

[@joebeparrenas5827]

Sir is it okay if I enclose the whole 12" subwoofer ? What will be the size of the speaker box? Any advantages or disadvantages on the quality of sound?

[@rizzrizz2291]

So which one is better?

[@thestreaker4635]

I think inverted the bass goes lower

[@joebrooklyn5865]

Folded w speaker box 5 ft by 3 ft believe me on level 1 on the volume the whole house shook with 18 cerwin Vegas crown amps

[@m.i.s.t.777]

The electrical things that spend a lot of power in heat are the best. Lights, Class A Amplifiers, sealed Boxes xDD

[@Dakoustics]

Too true, even voltage regulators.

[@Erkzyzz]

i have 2 15s in a ported box tuned to 30hz..so if i reverse the subs will my box tune go lower?

[@Dakoustics]

Yeah, it'll go slightly lower. Likely barely noticable though.

[@Alexkadabra]

How is inverse not considered free air?

[@randomtube8226]

For those trying to squeeze out a few more db. Invert is the way to go.

[@FrozenPaint]

How do you figure?

[@JasonKerlin]

@@FrozenPaint Good question...Unless the speaker is huge, that is not gonna happen.

[@Dakoustics]

In basic terms for efficiency, theres no replacement for displacement, so any added enclosure volume in a competitive environment can be beneficial. Also, added cooling allows for the up and rising one minute tone tests at low frequencies, that added cooling is a must.

[@JasonKerlin]

@@Dakoustics agreed, I actually have the two fifteens on the passenger side in my b pillar wall inverted, for that little bit extra. No passenger seat in my 93 mercury cougar either, also for the extra volume and cooling. It is too loud for my wife anyway so I don't need it in there. I haven't metered it since this wall was put in, hope to do that this summer, also have upgraded charging just recently. I should do a video, I am just a bit self concious as the project is in aa perpetuaal state of unfinished and is ratther shitty looking, but pretty is not loud and my car isn't pretty. However, it is dangerously loud. Have a good day.

[@gassedupgarage65]

@@JasonKerlin bruh you put a sound system in a mercury 😂 smh

[@xsm5525]

inverted of course. why? cause it looks cooler

[@amjaudio9064]

Sealed is the best punch bass

[@thestreaker4635]

Inverted the bass goes lower

[@ducktwacy6702]

You can also buy a Volt driver voltloudspeakers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/RV3863.pdf

[@legionvad9744]

To my ear, drum and bass sound better in inward facing speakers.

[@jonathonlyles3349]

You inverse your sub when the enclose is too small because you remove the magnet and basket out of the box 📦 makes the box larger I prefer inverted subs I am testing out my dbs both way problem is I maxed out my meter at 130 so idk 🤷

[@fredbradshaw3835]

Nice, now i know i do not want to invert, thanks english dude.

[@alecconway5032]

Fred Bradshaw he’s Australian you gronk, thanks dumb dude.

[@MayzDayz007]

Why the racist comment on English? Are you that hated? Don't love life? Or don't love your life?

[@fredbradshaw3835]

@@alecconway5032 same difference

[@fredbradshaw3835]

@@MayzDayz007 how is that racist, i hate all you muda f_ ckers, equally and the comment was on his accent, not nationality .

[@Dakoustics]

Lmao yeah Australian, a variant of English, I myself half English. Never been to England though.

[@chrisdexter3451]

Who runs 250w everything we run is in excess of 2000w

[@k.ctheking]

I think having them flipped backwards is better

[@thestreaker4635]

Unless you have 2 12s it looks cool

[@k.ctheking]

@@thestreaker4635 Ik right my shit slaps in my car soon I’ll be buying two subs for my car and changing the radio to

[@thestreaker4635]

@@k.ctheking same here

[@ernardbonny997]

Have some questions your email plz....

[@laszlosokolai2858]

You forgot about thermodynamics... if you use fiberglass insulation inside the sealed box with the driver non-inverse mounted, you can run louder and longer than the inverted woofer because the glass fibers pull heat from the voice coil. You forgot the most important common sense in building a speaker cabinet. Don't use polyfill like the cheaper lower quality companies do. The glass fibers count at heatsink area. The fiberglass artificially increases volume of the box making the woofer play deeper than a hollow empty box

[@jasonneal]

I knew there was some kind of sound difference between the 2. But all the guys the invert their subs claims it hits harder and more accurate 🤣

[@Dakoustics]

Could hit slightly harder, as for accurate, ever seen a high end speaker invert its midrange drivers? Nope, cause its worse for sound quality.

[@MAGNUMTIZED79]

Never invert speakers in a inclosed box always use ported sounds louder💯

[@JunaypaserM]

Plise translate indonesian🙏.

[@vdfritzz]

inside the box, because it takes a stupid amount of space when outside the box

[@notyobiz6207]

so then all 6th orders are half inverted lol

[@drillsergeant623]

🤦🏻‍♂️ we really are dumb.

[@nicoras8803]

Your ideas are nonsense since your box volume does not remain the same when inverting to woofer, thus all your spl and quality of sound is utter rubbish. Go learn about speaker design.

[@Dakoustics]

Speakers are typically, say, ~2L displacement for a 12" subwoofer, so when considering a small sealed box, that being only 7-10% of the volume, the difference is neglegible. I would consider over 20% to be a more important factor.

[@laceymcreynolds736]

Come on man, Noone wants to hear you breathe or try to and some of the information could be skipped because it's common sense. The dry, monotone speach doesn't help ya either. Was some good info though and hope ya keep try n to get it out to people.

[@Dakoustics]

The difference between the breathing sound being there and not is 19cm and 20cm from the mic. The total recording time is about 30 mins including parts I mess up, so if nothing else goes wrong I call it good enough. Also hard not to be monotone for that half an hour sitting in front of a computer screen. I've got a few more video ideas, I'll work on quality.

[@laceymcreynolds736]

@@Dakoustics I still have questions? This good way to ask?

[@Dakoustics]

@@laceymcreynolds736 oh, yeah, youtube is finding it hard to notify me of comments, if you've got a question just ask here, i'll check back in a day or two, as long as its not too long winded

[@laceymcreynolds736]

@@Dakoustics I guess I'm old school consider n had my first loud ride in Ninety-six! Think n bout try n a 15 square solo out on my BD one thousand Rockford. Was think n run n sealed to their specks on their website. My question is though how do you think will do? The enclosure they recommend is barely enough for the sub itself! I have the pictures of specks if could email. I want to hit One Fifty again and low! I want clear low no distortion. Distortion kills! If you check this out could you help me figure out how low that enclosure will go? Hell back when I was really in this was no real tune n the box. Plus sealed shows power and hopefully clear low only a fifteen can do!

[@Dakoustics]

@@laceymcreynolds736 Sorry for the late reply, I lost this comment and just found it, funnily enough a few people ask about the L7 15, so it's a tab I keep open, from the looks of it the sub seems ideal for a large sealed box, considering a Qts of over 0.7 its damped well for a big box. 150 out of one of these in a sealed box on 1k sounds unlikely. An option might be to go with a 200L/7 cu ft ported box, could also add 2 ports for the choice of tuning 26Hz or 33Hz, so 2 6" ports, about 16" long per port. This box is a tad bigger than suggested on the page, but a low tuning should keep excursion in check.