There Are No* Kingdom Hearts Spin-Offs

[@koumori9214]

normally id say a spin off is a game that diverges greatly from the main gameplay of the series or doesnt tie in to the main plot, like a rhythm game or racing game, but of course, this is kingdom hearts, where the rhythm game is plot critical. now i just wonder when were gonna get kingdom karts

[@MrsSetsuna101]

Honestly, due to how little original content is in MoM, I am perfectly OK with calling it a spin-off, with the caveat that KH4/whatever comes after Missing Link recaps the important bits. Namely that Sora's in Unreality and Riku was able to take a pathway there that was formed with Kairi's dreams, the star's memories, and Fairy Godmother's magic.

[@GaleGrim]

Kingdom Karts was in BBS. Part of Disney Land.

[@scipocelah6677]

I describe them to my friend as "console and handheld." but with everything on PC now 🙃

[@SoraXiEiRiO]

next thing we know Disney Speedstorm is KH cannon

[@ubermaster1]

@@MrsSetsuna101reading this gave me an aneurysm KH story is insane and I both love and hate it

[@ridgematthews175]

What is Pat talking about? We played Riku's Mansion in the second half of COM

[@DarkOverlord96]

You dummy, that was clearly Riku's Crazy Castle.

[@tsunderecat413]

and half of ddd is riku's mansion 2

[@ridgematthews175]

@@tsunderecat413 Except instead of introducing Polterpup, now you can jump off of the walls

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

@@ridgematthews175 Well.. it did introduce its own Polterpup after all, and is for the 3DS

[@Bravidunno]

@@tsunderecat413 what mansion? mansion of dreams?

[@UmmHaha]

There is no Easter bunny, there is no tooth fairy, and there is no* kingdom hearts spinoffs

[@zedorian6547]

But the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy are real so you should probably use different examples

[@mitchellkresge9446]

@@zedorian6547there is no Megamind Rules

[@caiasmith1341]

Easter Bunny can be found by going through the egg shaped door outside Halloweentown

[@gachagav_gc]

​@@caiasmith1341I understood that reference

[@makaiwise4609]

There is no war in Ba Sing Se

[@GothamGuardian12]

Pat, you silly. You forgot to mention all the spinoff movies they made featuring our beloved pals like Hercules and Ariel and Peter Pan. They’re even doing a whole spinoff trilogy for Cloud and Sephiroth and that girl who punches Heartless in the Hollow Bastion fight.

[@zedorian6547]

Lets not forget about that one game that shows us why Squall is pretty dang strong….though it does make you wonder why he and Seifer don’t talk anymore

[@Valtharr]

...trilogy?

[@komaytoprime]

​@@ValtharrFF7 Remake, Rebirth, and the planned third one.

[@AlastorNahIdWinRadioDemon]

​@@komaytoprime I thought they meant Crisis Core, VII and Advent Children tbh-

[@rosies69]

This has nothing to do with the video...

[@caseydanielllle]

i was admitted to the hospital for treatments for my autoimmune disease again and my boyfriend surprised me by bringing me his steam deck and he had bought all of the games and he said, “i bought you kingdom hearts and the spin offs” and i got SO HEATED explaining to him how they aren’t spin offs that my blood pressure went way up and the alarms started going off - i ended up with 4 nurses running into my room sensing danger, only to find me shouting about beating up things with a giant key 😭😂

[@KRJayster]

You just have your priorities in the right place. And also your boyfriend’s heart is in the right place.

[@royalrick1]

Understandable.

[@Marliemac]

This comment is gold

[@zetten4109]

That’s adorable

[@autumn_west]

This is the funniest comment, I hope you're doing well!

[@Spikey-Valentine]

“Super Sora Sunshine” best thing I’ve heard all day

[@JFairy189]

😁🗝️🌞

[@Gamechamp3000]

This video is my drugs

[@Charizardtrainer6]

Loved your kingdom hearts true play order video gamechamps, very funny seeing you here

[@SrtaElaine]

omg it's her, i thought about your true play order video after watching this one

[@Drew3966]

Did you finish the kh game in complete order

[@acehealer4212]

Hello, Gamechamp3000, canon protagonist of Kingdom Hearts χ! Happy to see you here. Keep up the good work.

[@SunshineRey]

Girl, after watching your KH play order video fully, yeah makes sense.

[@liamwhite3522]

I'm going to make an extended metaphor of the Kingdom Hearts series as a road trip you and your friends are taking across country (sorry to non-Americans/Canadians for the unrelatable concept) The planned destinations on this trip are 1, 2 and 3. Those are all you think you need to hit to have a good time. CoM is a bridge between 1 and 2, but Days is like if that bridge also lets off at an island between the two landmasses. CoM gets you where you need to go, but only the driver needs to be aware of what's going on. However, they can turn off the bridge at Days Island and have a little break, spend some time on the beach, but then pack back into the car and resume your trek towards 2. After 2, you think you're going to get to 3 with no issue, but then the car breaks down, and you have to wait until it gets repaired. While you wait on that, you go to BBS Park, throw around the frisbee, and also read the little placard that explains why the park's called that, which gives you a little more appreciation for 1. Meanwhile, one of your buddies is making a scrapbook of your trip, a digital one, called coded. He's including all these little details which is cute, but really it's not necessary for the people on the trip to read it, since they are living it. Once again, you set off towards 3, but its getting late, you stop to rest for the night, except no you don't because there's this cool club next door, the DDD club. You and your buddies go there, get wasted, have a great time, but the next morning you're all plagued by headaches and wonder what exactly happened. Finally you reach 3, the alcohol finally out of your systems, and the trip finishes off right. There's an amusement park at 3, called Re:Mind, but you only go there if you can afford to, especially after goofing off on the way there, and only those who can stomach the intense rides would get the most out of it. And so, you head back to your home, while a buddy of yours makes a mixtape about the adventure you guys had, Melody of Memory. It isn't until you get home that you realize one of you, Sora... is just missing? Did he get left at the amusement park? Did he get kidnapped?? And so you head back, towards 4. I will not elaborate.

[@jothamsalifu9053]

Top 10 KZbin comments of all time, I'm crying

[@nunuzuzu2991]

I love this explanation lol 😂

[@AtJoee230]

please pin this comment pat

[@LimeadeRaimi]

You forgot about the wormhole you go through some time around getting to 3 or back to 4 where you go back in time to a past version of 3 and the only way to get back is to meet some guy who's really good at doing plays and watch both parts of it. One or two of your friends actually got to be in that play a while ago but this is your chance to see it again and it'll push you towards 4. At least that's what you're promised, until you get really invested and end up staying there so you can see his other play that's still in production. Also some time around that you heard that you could meet your ancestor which is a cool concept and like 1-2 guys did as well so you know it's possible, but you're still waiting for that to be released to the public despite it being promised that you already should have been able to see them.

[@liamwhite3522]

@@LimeadeRaimi Listen, there's only so far I can stretch a metaphor to fit KH weirdness. And frankly, I can't judge those games (which I think you are implying KHUX and Dark Road?) correctly because I haven't watched the cutscenes or played them.

[@olaoladejo2765]

You could play ANYTHING over namines theme and it would sound like a solemn, emotional, encouraging motivational speech

[@Aid1043]

Hell yeah! Any day where we force Pat to talk about Kingdom Hearts V CAST is a good day in my book. I appreciate the shout-out, and I'm shocked that the sliver of people who said they played V CAST is even visible on the pie chart. Also, I'm in lockstep with your assessment of a "spin-off" with respect to KH - there's simply no other series like it.

[@JonseyLetsPlays]

Yo it's Aid1043 the goat 🔥🔥🔥 💯

[@aliceyuri]

really the only series that's similar is trails, which is an ongoing narrative, but those are all fairly standard jrpgs, so they don't share the interesting context that kh games exist in where kh 2, dream drop, COM, and MOM are all canon despite their pretty substantial gameplay divergences

[@SignificantNobody]

Wait Pat you didn’t say which games were the cheese and the crust! We gotta know how the KH pizza is assembled

[@RegularPat]

KH3 easily cheese, KH2 deffo the crust

[@sorasun7757]

And the other games are the toppings.

[@JoelBurger]

Besides some people just being ignorant of any game that doesn't have a big number attached to it, I think idea of a "spin-off" was born of people wanting to lessen the blow of not having the system a KH was on. Because to be sure it was an issue in the 2000s that you'd need to get a PS2, GBA, DS, PSP, and 3DS to experience the whole thing. But with the plethora of collections we have now the label is largely useless and only serves to spread misunderstandings about story importance.

[@CrowQQ]

Totally agree with "it's cope" theory because I remember dismissing CoM as spin-off because I only had PS2 and then being rather miffed when I loaned KH2 from my friend and being mildly confused about story stuff and learning that funny haha GBA game was story relevant explaining why I should know who the bugger Namine was.

[@flamestoyershadowkill]

Remove GBA, because the ds was backwards compatible was it until the dsi models, or remove ds because 3ds had backwards compatibility. So only need 4 Consoles for the whole thing.

[@Rihcterwilker]

​@@flamestoyershadowkill no. We're talking how it was seen ---at the time--- of every game release, so every different console the game was made for is included.

[@djuv4375]

Mickey:"You see, Melody of Memory isn't really a spin-off game. It was just going around telling everybody it was!"

[@hanikamu81]

Pat, please never stop showing up live action at the end of the videos I hate change and these segments bring me joy I will cry. Thank you 🙏

[@treddox5880]

Pat, your writing and editing are as sharp as ever. People who listen to your videos podcast-style are missing out on how much you’re getting out of the Wayfinder Project. I loved participating in the survey, and I’ll gladly do another one.

[@StarWolf5298]

I guess my issue is the assumption that spin-offs=not important to main narrative. Like who made that rule? It certainly doesn't apply to the realm of TV spin-offs, which are often treated as the continuation of the original show. Like are the various Star Trek series not all technically spin-offs of TOS? Getting back to video games. If Mario doesn't quite work as a reference because Mario doesn't have an overarching narrative, then maybe we should look at some other game franchises then. With Mega Man, we got the classic series, X, Zero, ZX, and Legends in chronological order of the main franchise timeline. I think most people still think of MMX as a spin-off to Classic even if it continues the history of that world and likewise for the other sub series. Final Fight is a spin-off to Street Fighter but is constantly interwoven into later SF games. SF6 literally is set in the city of FF and acts as a pseudo sequel to the FF series. But Final Fight is still very much a spin-off regardless imo.

[@TheAnimatedIgnoramas]

My big problem with your definition is its dependence on future games in order to effectively categorize past games because narrative importance is difficult to determine without that future context. This is why Dark Road seems so difficult to categorize with your definition, we have no clue if anything from it will ever be relevant yet. If Xion or the Wayfinder Trio never returned or Coded was never referenced, would they still not be spin-offs? I just don't find the exercise particularly useful if we have to wait for future games to properly categorize games that are already out. Gr8 video ftr, this was just my prevailing thought after watching.

[@dattos140]

Dark road is already relevant to union x and missing link is it not? It confirmed that the protag of missing link was the reincarnated version of the union x protag, meaning it sort of connects those 2, and is basically a sequel to both of them.

[@samforrt2898]

They can't be considered spin-offs because they are plot relevant, even without sequels. They expound upon elements mentioned in previous games regardless. Unchained and Union X are plot relevant to BBS, where Xehanort first references the Keyblade War. Dark Road is Xehanort's backstory, which makes it a prequel to BBS. Days is immediately plot relevant to CoM, being the events that happened during that period. CoM also follows up after 1's immediate ending. BBS is a prequel to 1. So at worst, the mobile games are just side games. The DS games are side games at worst as well, seeing how they have very little follow up but are themselves follow-ups to previous entries.

[@Kingdom850]

To your point about Xion and the BBS trio (Coded will unfortunately always remain relevant because the Datascape is still being mentioned to this day in current games), if they were to never appear again, their games still can't be considered spinoffs, because all of their stories led to KH3 in some small way. You get their pay off of being rescued in that game. In terms of the Dark Seeker Saga, they're not spinoffs. Now as for the Lost Master Saga, we'll have to wait and see.

[@ashemabahumat4173]

"I make up for it by having strong opinions and saying fuck." Yup. Sounds exactly like me, lol

[@madmaster0015]

Here's how I classify KH games: 1. Kingdom Hearts 1 2. The Kingdom Hearts 2 Trilogy (Chain/Re:Chain, 358/2 Days, Kingdom Hearts 2) 3. The Kingdom Hearts 3 Trilogy (Birth by Sleep, Dream Drop Distance/2.8 Collection, Kingdom Hearts 3) 4. Mobile games I will never play (possibly becoming part of the KH4 Trilogy) 5. Everything else The point of the grouping I laid out is not dividing by "side game" or "spin-off", but asking which game provides supplemental material or significantly contributes to the narrative of that numbered title. I believe asking what is consider a "spin-off" in the case of Kingdom Hearts is asking the wrong question.

[@trueblueryu5713]

Not a bad manner of grouping, but I might re-title 2 to “The nobody trilogy” and 3 to “the Master Xehanort trilogy”.

[@zedorian6547]

You will play the 4 section when they are inevitably remade without the micro transactions

[@鹿野修哉-u2k]

Dark Seeker Saga Lost Masters Saga

[@majinya6199]

I would group CoM with KH1, and have Coded in KH2 trilogy

[@madestmadhatter]

​​@@zedorian6547you can watch the cutscenes on your phone still, the gameplay was mostly supported by the gotccha mechanics and guild support, it's nifty for the first 10 or so levels, but you eventually stopped actually playing and set it to auto run, there's never going to be a restored release.

[@blahblahgdp]

2:07 im glad you made that distinction. A lot of people that are chronically online get in the habit of "all people are X" and it ruins themselves mentally.

[@alexandreturcotte6411]

"KH1 is the sauce" - Regular Pat circa 2024

[@LazerzZ]

I didn't expect the Crisis Core jumpscare, ruined my night Pat

[@arios6443]

This is just the remaster, remake, or reimagining argument all over again, only this time there's time travel involved.

[@numbug1234]

To me, a "side game" and a "bridge game" are both sub-categories of "spin-off", and a spin-off doesn't need to not be important to the mainline entries. But also videogames have their whole entire type of spin-off-ness entirely resulting from gameplay, so some games could absolutely fit the requirements for "mainline" in a narrative sense but still end up as spin-off entries due to their shift in gameplay.

[@splatman7300]

11:52 - this kind of synergy of visuals and script is why i love this channel so much

[@Lucatrocity]

9:20 only Persona 4 Dancing is canon the other 2 dancing games aren’t

[@daniellemurnett2534]

Isn't it technically that they're dreams and _may or may not be_ canon?

[@velvetbutterfly]

@@daniellemurnett2534no because things like Fuuka being aware of Alibaba contradict the timeline of events.

[@tiredenby437]

@@velvetbutterfly Fuuka isn't aware of Alibaba outside of her computer connecting to Futaba's

[@velvetbutterfly]

@@tiredenby437 she says the name is familiar even though it won't be used until several years after

[@dattos140]

@@velvetbutterfly Could just be a cheeky reference, no need to make an entire game non canon because of one line, its like a person from another game saying joker looks familar, because he too is a wild card, obviously they've never met him, but its referencing the fact that both he and the other protags are pretty similar due to their nature as wild cards and, you know, protagonist.

[@Kaweebo]

This KH drought has left me so parched, I’ll take whatever unhealthy, sugary junk Pat wants to pour down my gullet just to survive until the next year

[@dekuisagreatmaincharacter]

Whether or not any given KH game is a spin-off is up for debate, but what is absolutely not up for debate is this video’s status as the most Regular Pat video of all. There’s intense KH1 love, internet arguments, surveys, language analysis, rankings, DDD and Coded slander, weirdly obscure pop culture references, what else is missing? It’s the most Regular Pat video of all time.

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

30:49 Hi! I'm one of the ones who voted for Chain of Memories to be considered Mainline My reasoning mainly stems from the fact that KH2 on its own doesn't really make full use of the elements introduced in CoM. Too many major events happen within Chain of Memories, as it's a game that completely changes the status quo compared to the first entry, it's basically Kingdom Hearts I's actual sequel. Chain of Memories is just as indispensable as KH1 & KH2, as several games continue referencing events from this game. Vexen and his Replica Program is not reintroduced properly in 358/2 Days, which Xion's entire existence hinges on. Riku gets the start of his redemption arc here, Axel gets to be Axel here (you forget how little he actually does in KH2, he just goes to get Roxas back from the data Town, kidnaps Kairi, then gets a very half-assed death.) And like, this game is basically the reason Organization XIII is allowed to be called that to begin with, when Sora wakes up he only meets 7 of the members in the flesh (Demyx, Axel, Xaldin, Xigbar, Luxord, Saix, Xemnas, 8 if you count postmorterm Roxas). I think KH2 can't work on its own properly without experiencing all the changes that Chain of Memories brought, I think it deserves to sit at the top with the five, even if it's Disney worlds are all rehashes Days is practically a bridge game.. between CoM and KH2, because CoM is mainline enough to get its own bridge

[@zedorian6547]

10000% agree with this sentiment. At worst its the prologue to KH2 or the epilogue to KH1. Either way I think its just as important as the other two titles.

[@indecentthinking]

Agreed, CoM sets up WAY too much to be a side game, never mind a spin off. You cant just introduce half of the integral antagonist group of the second game, set up why Sora has a nobody and what happened in the time between and non-chalantly state that its not mainline.

[@Rikarikun]

CoM and Days are two sides of the same event, effectively. You could argue that they're both the bridge, and that they're different parts of it. CoM works on its own, sure, but Days improves upon that. Days is a renovation to the bridge that is CoM that made it bigger. It might be easier to liken them to sidequests you have to do to be allowed to progress into the next part of the main quest, but even that isn't a good metaphor.

[@saxor96]

​@@RikarikunI would argue you don't need Days to "bridge" because KH2 wasn't made with the pretext of playing Days. What you didn't know about it that appears in Days was supposed to be learned by you as plot twists or when you actually get to play Days afterwards. CoM on the other hand is constantly referenced in one way or another and KH2 assumes you played it. It's almost as if Jiminy never forgot at all with those journal entries. I was sooo confused back.

[@RFDN0]

KH1, CoM and KH2 were an original trilogy. Com was the bridge. You didn't need to know about it because KH2 did a good job summarizing it (I would know I learned about it after playing KH2 the first time) but it was the solid story that then got another plot line added to it. BBS was the real beginning of the Xehanort arc. It was a solid prequel that began pushing this story. 358/2 and Recoded were the side games which had key content for the continuation of this arc but it was not really their main stories. 358/2 flushed out the members of organization 13 and hinted at both Xehanort and Luxu. Re:coded was mostly a character piece for KH1 Sora that explained KH2's vague end scene being the entry point for Xehanort to make his arrival to the main plot. DDD was realistically the funnel bridging the previous side games and prequel from the realitively closed ending of KH2 to KH3. BBS .2 was originally the tutorial section of KH3 and got broken off into a bridge game between DDD and KH3. KH3 was the capstone game for the Xehanort arc and the bridge tothe material for the foretellers arc.

[@Nexus_427]

My personal take always was that something being a "spin off" doesn't mean it's NOT relevant. Sure, it depends on a series, but in case of KH alone, anything that isn't mainline 1-4 can be called a spinoff, but that doesn't make them any less important... as infuriating as it also can be, I fully expect a good chunk of people to be confused by some events of KH4, because they weren't following events of a mobile game that got pulled from app stores.

[@hasuotaku]

There are actual words for these concepts. Prequel is for games like BbS, and interquels for games like Days, CoM, DDD, Recoded because the games take place between other games. Sequels is obvious, no need for me to explain.

[@TiredHighProductions]

Interesting take that you consider Conker games as spin-offs and not, you know... Diddy Kong Racing as a DK spin-off. So that makes Conker a spin-off from a spin-off, one of the most true spin-offs of all time. I mean, I agree with everything you've said. But I figured if your video is all about semantics, then my comment should be too.

[@WahnderfulWah]

The Fraiser reference/analogy was so brilliant and good, made me smile as a huge fan of both, thanks so much. Frasier does have episodes that calls back to Cheers and even features all but one Cheers characters that give life updates. Also Lilith is in many episodes. I think Frasier and Sam have a conversation about the bar but I don’t remember it enough. The set of Frasier was even built on top of the Cheers set. It still deviates far enough from Cheers despite some additional content. It is like a canon spin off to me, or a side game haha. Definitely a main line game in the Cheers/Frasier narrative haha

[@StarWolf5298]

10:50 FYI, in Cheers, Frasier once stated that his father was dead. This was obviously not true in the Frasier show. A later episode addressed this continuity hiccup by explaining he was mad at his dad at the time and said it out of anger.

[@sm4carnageihope]

I have tiers for them Tier 1: Numbered titles built specifically for consoles, introduce new worlds, including a new type of Disney property, have a new main theme song and a CGI animated opening. (KH, KHII, KHIII, KIV) Tier 2: Not numbered, made for portable devices, doesn't have new types of Disney properties and just recycles a previous main theme song. BUT it they do introduce new Disney worlds and a CGI animated intro. (Birth by Sleep, Dream Drop Distance) Tier 3: Built for portable devices, all Disney worlds and main theme songs are recycled from previous entries, and the intros are just montages of footage from previous games. (Chain of Memories, 358/2 Days, Re:Coded, Melody of Memory).

[@zincpodzzz]

8:12 Hate to be THAT guy… but Bowser Jr mentioning “a strange man in a white coat” making his paint brush (and F.L.U.D.D. also being made by him) kind of goes against your idea of Luigi’s Mansion not effecting the narrative or world of Super Mario. I only bring it up since you bring up Sunshine right after lol. Great video so far tho, just wanted to throw in my thoughts haha

[@trueblueryu5713]

E. Gadd also appears in the Mario and Luigi games, and Luigi’s fear of the ghosts is referenced in the Galaxy games.

[@velvetbutterfly]

@@trueblueryu5713E Gadd was more of a cameo like Link was so I don't know if I'd count the M&L games

[@Lil_Meatball_Sub]

love when Pat spits bars about Kingdom Hearts for 30+ minutes

[@chables74]

The little in-person one-sided convos at the end are the best, keep them up

[@JIP214]

Pat the type of guy to say "I really needed this" while out with friends

[@FMT_Player]

Patrick Paopu, you just straight up rambled for 40 minutes about a niche topic in a video game series you play a lot with some statistics thrown in. This is basically just what I do for about 3-5 hours every week on a scheduled Discord call (including later tonight) to/at my best friend and I straight up respect this :3

[@Nhblubird]

Jan Misali mentioned omg

[@DominoPivot]

Writing jan with a capital letter? ike a!

[@Kalernor]

To me the word "off" is crucial to the meaning of "Spin-off", meaning I only consider a piece of media a spinoff if it has truly spun-*off* from the main source title into its own self-sustaining thing. Your Fraiser example is a good one for a spinoff, since really Fraiser became its own thing independent from Cheers. Meanwhile for the case of the canon KH games, none of them became its own thing, they all heavily reference and feedback into the "main" games' stories; in a sense, they have "spun-within" the KH series rather than "spun-off" from it, which sounds stupid but aptly gets my point across I feel.

[@RegularPat]

This was basically the crux of those 700 words I threw out of the script. In my mind, even things like V CAST are hard to call "spin-offs" because it's spinning "off" into more KH

[@TruelyNotLaim]

I just want to say how happy I am that your channel has grown so much over the past 4 years I’ve been watching

[@Eagleemperor]

Videos like this are a big part of why I love Kingdom Hearts. The mental gymnastics we have to do to categorise this stuff is genuinely a fun exercise. Thanks for you perspective Pat.

[@secureb00t39]

You made a jan misali reference right when i came down to make a jan misali joke. Screw you Pat

[@ChampionAnalysis]

The numbers on Dark Road are hella surprising to me. Dark Road was a pleasant surprise for me as one of the best KH stories that successfully integrated Disney material into its larger narrative.

[@TallManVanitas]

Regular Pat referencing Frasier? It’s like you KNOW me, man! 🤣🙌🏻

[@delphinium4987]

"Bejeweled but it listens to paramore" had me cackling. This video was just what I needed at the end of a long day. Cheers Pat!

[@robTCGZ]

The way I see it, narratively speaking, NO SPIN-OFFS! Gameplay wise, yeah, I can see enough deviation to categorize them as such.

[@StewFor2Dollars]

29:50 Chain of Memories being a bridge game is fitting, given that cards are involved :P

[@joeldavis9298]

As someone who actually played Kingdom Hearts 2 first i kinda see why it's #1 in importance.

[@samuraikarasu]

Im glad you lit Goofy on fire in VCast. Hes had it too good for too long.

[@gojiramonster2388]

I'd say since every single Kingdom Hearts game was created in order to push the narrative of the main story forward, they are all main games.

[@GruntyGames]

I'm not the only one to find out that KH-Vcast existed from this video, right?

[@tronixchl2004]

For the ppl who say BBS and Days are spin offs, tell me: Who is the woman Sora rescues in KH3? Why the return of Roxas was so important and who is the girl he owe's something WHY IS THERE A ROXAS CLONE A NEW TYPE OF ENEMY AND WHY DOES THAT EDGY MF LOOK LIKE SORA??? WHO IS THE MAIN ANTAGONIST OF THE GAME?!?!?!?!!?? Yeah that's what i thought. Also any game in final fantasy that's either a prequel or a sequel of one of the main games are not spin offs, Dissidia, Tactics, Crystal chronicles, the chocobo games are clear spin offs (of the main line)

[@TGHowaith]

The funny thing about Days is it having the dubious honor of contexting the original secret ending, i.e./technically the first bit of sequel material in the series. Obviously, they admitted it was a lot of dart-throwing, and the NicoNico lines are sprinkled throughout KH2, but they also decided to write in the time gap. They had to sleep in that bed at some point. Shoring up the foundation of strong character motivations-making out the role of its protagonist as something controlled and rote, worth escaping, but also keeping-will always be a highlight in the [too-often questionable] writing of the series. It's a shame the game itself couldn't have been better, though I sustain both it and Re:coded had enough sauce to add to the rest of the series. All the same, were still left with a game starring the 3rd and 5th most popular characters in the series; one of the most iconic music pieces outside of Dearly Beloved, attached to the most less-controversial-than-she-was-in-2009 character; Lexaeus smacking Roxas so that his Limit Breaks; and "Roxas, that's a stick". Honestly, we ate.

[@JP-1990]

I feel the best term would be "tie-in" It's like in comics where you'll have Spider-Man somewhat suddenly switch sides in Civil War (whew!) but in his tie-in comic we get to see more context as to why this happened.

[@whiz8569]

26:39 I was NOT prepared for V-Cast Goofy with his...hat on fire?

[@xkharmahx]

I definitely agree with you those are side games a spin off is something that is based on the original material but it’s own thing but don’t really intersect with the main material

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

If there's relevant plot development in a game, I wouldn't consider it to be a spin off, no matter what platform it was made for. But if there was a game that was only about what the Final Fantasy characters got up to during the events of KH3, that i would call a spin off. Kind of like how the show All in the Family gave us The Jeffersons and Maude, which itself had Good Times as a spin off. I call it the Norman Learaverse.

[@MoeNinjaCat]

I'm so glad someone made a Kingdom Hearts version of the Mainline Mario jan Misali video, when I was watching that video this is the first thing I thought of was "hope someone does this for Kingdom Hearts". Honestly the findings are about what suspected even if I disagree with some of it. Amazing work as always, Pat!

[@katzenreichm]

NEW REGULAR PAT VIDEO, THIS IS SO REGULAR!!

[@eendsofthearth]

Honestly the mainline vs spinoff discussion isn't something that generally interests me but the data of how many players have experienced every game was amazing!! Thank you for sharing!! I think BBS is so high in experience because it has a female protagonist, ngl. I'm biased because I talk to a lot of female and lgbt fans but. I know quite a few people who played the series for her and couldn't wait after KH2 to start BBS. And this is just my opinion but I think if people were to only play one BBS route, its hers.

[@dex1157]

One of the 3500 or so people who submitted answers here, glad to see the videos finally out (this isnt a knock on you being slow or anything, I imagine it was a lot to sift through/script/edit). I kinda forgot my own answers, but i think they more or less lined up with the consensus. Maybe quibbling on whether MelMem is a bridge or side game, but thats it. I thinl some of the games are hard to quantify right now since we dont know wgere exactly they're going, but i still did err on the side of caution and call Dark Road etc side games rather than spin-offs. Although I may have put BBS as a main game. Excited for the next thing like this though! Submitted a few answers for "dumb KH lines" that im excited to see discussed!

[@colestevens2224]

Great video as always. Big fan of the Survivor reference and the Jan Misali shout out.

[@AtomicF0x]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I tend to agree. Since each title (to my knowledge) contributes more or less to the overarching narrative, all, if not most of them are canon---and technically not spinoffs. For example, if I had to compare them to something like the Marvel Cinematic Universe canon, then the unnumbered Kingdom Hearts titles are more like the shows/miniseries, while the numbered Kingdom Hearts titles are like the main movies. Edit: 26:38 Good God almighty.

[@vincentadamsvga]

The way I view the games is usually in two categories, grouped in a pattern. Major and minor. For every major release there is a minor release to follow and vice versa. And the pattern for the most part is consistent, even if it isn't as nuanced as the non mainline categories presented in this video. KHI - Major CoM - Minor KHII - Major Days - Minor BBS - Major coded - Minor DDD - Major 0.2 - Minor KHIII - Major MoM - Minor KHIV - Major The part that screws up the pattern is the χ saga and likely ML whenever that finally arrives, of which I put into a neboulous medium category. Based on this pattern if it continues this consistency, then following KHIV will be a minor release, be it a bridge or side game, and then a major release, likely KHV unless we get another non numbered situation like with BBS & DDD. If I knew about the servey I would've liked to participate. Too late now, but if I had and were to follow the given categories, then I, II, BBS, DDD, & III are mainline, CoM, 0.2, & MoM are bridges, and Days & coded are side games.

[@DemonicDevilDiran]

I appreciate the live-action end bits, as a channel I grew up with did the same and dubbed them "end-slates" :p

[@fat_hercules]

I love data analysis the way I love sunsets: I could never make it myself; and I only have an elementary understanding of what I'm seeing; but it's beautiful and it makes the world work the way it does!

[@AuroraPeachy]

Fellow oldie here. Can't believe you mentioned Frasier. You're my favorite now.

[@lawdactyl]

God help us the day when Nomura utters the sentence “Sora is Smash Ult. Is canon”

[@jamesbertlitz953]

I feel "spin-off" is more about gameplay than story. If I said I'm playing a Mario game, then everyone imagines I'm playing a platformer. If I said I'm playing a Pokemon game, you imagine a turn-based RPG. Likewise, if I said I'm playing a Kingdom Hearts game, you would imagine I'm playing an action RPG. If someone said they wanted to play "A Kingdom Hearts game," they would be disappointed or confused if they played Melody of Memories.

[@RealCGH]

Spin off can also be stories tbf. For example it could be about a fan favorite side character. But where it stops being a spin off is when it's actually integral to the main story. I think GoW spinoff are a good example as it gameplay is the same but what makes it a spin off is that it just gives background on kratos adventures outside of mainline but you can still understand 1,2,3, 4 and 5 without playing them

[@alcole-holic8779]

3:47 I had no idea what that was and I thought I was a true fan, I’m ashamed

[@smashlloyd20]

Didn't have 'references to Shrek 2 console AND GBA' on my bingo card for this video but I can't say I'm complaining

[@alexlee4154]

"There are no kingdom hearts spin offs" exists as a warning for newcomers that there is more than the numbered titles that matter to the plot of this series. The word "spin-off" exists to form sweeping, immediate understanding in that way but when it gets granular it becomes less useful because we haven't agreed on what its definition is specifically. There are terms such as "anti-hero" that you can argue all day about what technically counts but the point is that it generates a very fast vague understanding so we can work the details out from there.

[@ShyRanger]

What's funny is very soon after you posted your survey, Legend of Zelda Echoes of Wisdom was announced, and the debate about "what's a spinoff" started up and is STILL going on.

[@DJ_Detailz]

Great video. Your outtro is what made me subscribe. It was a personal touch that made this app feel a bit more real. Thank you

[@oreotaku4017]

I like 98 % agree with you Pat. Especially your reasoning as to why you put what games where you put them, but for the heck of it I’m gonna just explain my thoughts on where they go. Mainline: KH1, KH2, KH3+ReMind, KHBBS, Union X(pretty self explanatory especially since it’s basically what you said. I am also one of those people that consider BBS to be KH0 especially since that’s why they pretty much why they named 0.2 the way they did.) Bridge: CoM, 3D(these are the only games I really consider to be bringing one title to another) Side: Days, Coded, 0.2, Back Cover, Dark Road, MoM(These games feel very stand alone, even if they do provide lore(a lot in the case of the mobile games)) Spinoffs: Novels, manga and every other alternate media we might get in the future that tells or retells the stories of the games. This can even include data books or that dialogue scene from that concert between The Lingering Will(Orlando Bloom TM) and Naminé that contains canonical information about the series. Non Canon: Basically every other game you discussed in this video the VCast group as I like to call them. They don’t affect the story or contain canonical information so they comfortably sit here. If somehow any of them do get revealed to have canon info in them in the future highly unlikely though it may be they will go to the side game category.

[@FormalGibble]

20:18 Just so you know Pat, if you google image search kingdom hearts human cigarette the union cross medals are the FIRST result!

[@vrageanalyst2931]

Hell yeah new video! Yummy data I've never seen before! Yup totally! :D this came together super well Pat!!! So glad to see it came together!!!

[@MonkStarling]

Honestly, after watching all of Union X, I felt like Dark Road was going to be JUST as long, and since it got delayed so much, I forgot it existed. ALSO... I never played KH1 when it released, I was a kid and didn't know about second-hand stores or whatever, since my parents barely allowed me to play anything, I had to do it behind their backs. I did actually play KH CoM on the GBA and experienced KH1 through that "proxy" if you will. The first playthrough of Kh1 for me was in 2017 when KH 1.5 + 2.5 released (which was the main reason I bought a PS4 and got back into gaming after a 5 year hiatus) Idk, maybe a lot of people experienced similar things when considering importance EDIT: WOW can't believe it's been 5 years, major congrats! I watched your 90 things you might not know video when it said "released 3 days ago" or something like that during the time when people were inside for coughing reasons

[@bobert221]

Xion and Master Xehanort may not be Great Mighty Poos, but Winnie sure is a little hungry Pooh

[@maymayleigh]

the way i literally forgot to text good morning to my boyfriend because i was so LOCKED IN watching this. honestly it's hard to remember my responses to the survey, but i feel confident i said none of the games (aside from the bejeweled clone and its ilk) were spin-offs. i distinctly remember getting into the weeds on a side game vs. bridge game, but i ultimately think it matters less than the title of the video. whether i consider days a side or bridge game is neither here or there, what's important is that i am not fucked up and evil enough to consider it a spin-off, and that my opinion is backed up by cold, hard data. always happy to take a survey for this channel. let's do one next on, i don't know, which games are the best written of the series. that won't start any fights, surely. also yeah moving SUCKS. welcome to the new place!!!

[@grunner7557]

Real talk. It's this "There are no spin-offs in Kingdom Hearts" thing that makes me really hate Union X/Dark Road, and Missing Link. Because I know for a fact those three games are going to end up being really important to the story of Kingdom Hearts from 4 onwards. Locking the story behind free-to-play gacha *Cough*gambling*cough* games is just going to make keeping up with the story even more of a headache than it was during the Xehanort Saga.

[@hattrick9873]

Holy shit that one Survivor clip of the dude saying "I don't know" to every question sent me back. My family still consistently references that guy

[@pedrogarcia8706]

I still maintain that com and coded are glorified ports/remakes of kh1 to handheld technology, very similar to the shrek example. Just because nomura added canon lore to them doesnt change that, and i love com.

[@benji777tm]

Speak of the devil, I was just looking for some Regular Pat media yesterday.

[@daniellemurnett2534]

Unremarkable Pat uploaded, time to get back in the KH phase again Everything* is mainline, most games are side-games, bridge-games are I suppose a valid sub-grouping of that but the distinction is too granular for my taste, I haven't seen Dark Road cutscenes specifically because I'm waiting for the Damian dub, and V-Cast gets a 2/10 importance simply because out of the cryptid collection that is _actual_ KH spin-offs it's the one I personally remember most often.

[@2minuss]

20:15 Lmao, that variation of the copypasta hit me completely unprepared. I almost choked on my tea I was drinking.

[@kates5183]

YAY

[@Rihcterwilker]

I guess you can just call them "backstory-filling games".

[@fat_hercules]

@10:51 YES I NEED MORE CHEERS CONTENT IN MY KINGDOM HEARTS LET"S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Also it was clever to use the Roxas TV. You are a Regular Prince among men, Regular Pat.

[@ghostteller5773]

Calling the prequels and interquels spin-offs was just the casual fans coping.

[@sirloinestakegames7866]

As always, great video and I totally agree with the consensus (and your opinion)

[@poleon2003]

Reminds of how when casual and outsiders learn that all the so called "side games" are just as important as the main numbered games they'd go "Then what the hell makes Kingdom Hearts 3 REALLY Kingdom Hearts 3 in the series?" because so many people saw KH3 as the 14 year long awaited conclusion to the first 2 when it's clearly not the case at all like seriously KH3 literally did NOT went through a development time as long as Duke Nukem Forever did LMAO

[@OtisCluck]

These are also the same people that think the story is “confusing” because they only played the numbered games

[@mel-nl9lx]

Thanks for including my data! One day I’ll finish it properly🙈

[@jbcatz5]

Because of how theatre mode is a free add on for 1.5+2.5 for 1FM it’s the game with the most accessible theatre mode in game (you can even watch both versions of Another Side Another Story when you’re still on Destiny Islands). This could account for cutscene viewing numbers.

[@KeyofTime15]

A RegularPat Video to round off my already great Tuesday 🧡

[@PTp1ranha]

I like to divide the Xehanort Saga into two trilogies: 1 > CoM > 2 BBS > DDD > 3 Then everything else kind of floats to the side, some more important than others, but all with their roles to play.

[@faelsafe]

I think if Union X is a "bridge game" it's a bridge between the series arcs rather than specific games. It gives new context to characters who don't play a huge part in the First Arc's story to draw people into caring (calling out Marluxia, Larxene, Xigbar* and Ven SPECIFICALLY) and sets up the background of the next arc's antagonists (whether that ends up being the Foretellers + Luxu, the Darknesses, the Master of Masters, or some amalgam of all three groups)