Regulating scoring pace is important | patterns can dictate who’s successful

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[@JackandTom-tz8kj]

I think that the higher the pace, the broader the group with a chance to win. I'm a journeyman pro, and this weekend made me think I might have been competitive, had I tried to qualify. BTW, congrats on your doubles finish...looks like you and Cody lapped all your fellow KZbinrs 😊

[@georgeharper4744]

Keep the scores in the middle around 210,220. That good 👍

[@bertmartini2235]

I use to own a bowling alley. No matter what the pattern was some loved it some hated it.

[@scottwilson6712]

Have to say that seeing Deronn win the masters was cool because i could recognize my game in how he bowls. Love the big boys of the PBA but it lifted me up to know that on a good day i just might have a chance. Good video JR.

[@CheapButNotEasy]

Someone said to me "there should be a pro tour just for 1 handers". I told her there was and it was called PBA50. 1 extra strike every 3 games make a 210 bowler a 215, because strike on strike percentage goes up. The higher averages go, the more strike on strike matters and the power guys get a little bit of extra bit of pocket from their higher entry angles, as JR said on their light hits around board 14-16. Combine that with needing a deep inside line to stay on the edge of the oil, and RPM becomes more and more important as the lanes break down. It's great to showcase how good the elite bowlers are, but unlike the NBA or NFL etc., bowling requires mass participation to stay alive. If broadcasting huge scores sells ads I get it, but that doesn't make the sport more accessible. I see hope at some centers I go to, and that's bringing younger bowlers into the game - college admissions and scholarships. Yes, if your kid doesn't like soccer it's possible to be a bowling mom! It's not a secret that having excellence at a sport helps get into a better college and that college will probably be cheaper to go to through scholarship money. They will be the high line count bowlers of tomorrow, but most bowl 2 handed because of what they see on TV. So close the gap in scoring or watch the game get more 2 handed over time.

[@cjw3146]

Really makes it more impressive that Norm Duke was still able to compete at such a high level.

[@trailerparkretirement]

I 100% agree! When I was growing up, when someone shot 300 local it made the front of the sports page and the ABC gave you a real gold ring. I totally accept things change, technology etc but I've watched the game deteriorate in numerous ways. I've bowled and cashed in regionals in my day and I love getting left and making shots but that has deteriorated into taking two steps and "rip and chuck" over the left gutter. I guess that's a skill, like spinning a plate on a pole is a skill...just my opinion. I don't know that there is a realistic fix given the overstocks we have as they just eat the oil off the lane. If I hit flush I'm already moving a board on my next shot cause of I wait one shot too long it'll be a 4-9 or worse lol. Anyway, from an old timer I agree with what your saying but I dont know that there is a fix that will work. I hope so!

[@danielwelsh4503]

As a fan of bowling, I like it better when the scores are lower. It makes it more exciting at cut time to follow and see that one guy get hot the last game and maybe make a huge jump.

[@biIIyball]

This is why I think strings can actually help bring some integrity back to the game. Irrespective of the pattern, off hits will be tougher to obtain for everybody.

[@jefferydaniels6717]

Rabbit hole? Wouldn't you be afraid that they would go to the extreme like everything else does nowdays? Maybe take out the "matching up" by limiting to same 2 balls for everyone like US Gold does?

[@MsEeyore14]

2 handed bowlers are showing that it is easier especially in longer formats

[@SteveJones-ul9ex]

When I bowled a lot of tournaments I always enjoyed the ones that didn't favor a particular hand or style of bowling and could be hit by all players who threw good shots with the average to make finals of 210-220 per game. I still think that today although I don't compete much anymore due to injuries. So bottom line JR I agree with you 100% sir.

[@billt2020]

I agree. My take is more controversial, does anybody really want to watch a non athletic guy stand left and dump the ball right around their gut and beat the best players in the world? I know I don’t. The product currently being put out by PBA is almost unwatchable. Bowling has an integrity issue at all levels and Neither the PBA or the USBC is addressing this, they are just trying to make money and failing miserably at that. They truly believe high scores makes money and low scores don’t. They are wrong, high scores drives people away because they don’t believe they can compete.

[@jeffs7773]

Awesome job at the Roth Holman guys!

[@LouisCsanko]

Great Channel JR.😎

[@mrb43605]

I have a solution that will never fly! Use any shell they want....but go back to a round core and a pancake weight block. Should make the game much more fair, with better execution needed to bowl well! Would make the game have some credibility again!

[@Omnigamer88]

Scoring pace should be lower 100%. If for nothing else, looking at the basic math, the median in which we keep score is based off of +/-200. When the average scoring pace of the top cut is in the range of 240-260, there just isn't any room for achievement or let's be honest, just bad luck...*cough*cough* Chris Barnes *cough*cough*. Bowling, at least in the modern day, has never really been a "fair" game, but it doesn't mean that they cannot try to be. Bowling Scorefest tournaments just suck....if you don't happen to have the correct ball and matchup, you're screwed...even the high power guys. Just take your local city tournaments...if you can't average 255+ off the rip you don't have a prayer of making the top spots. It Forces you to make aggressive guesses to find the correct ball motion and that sometimes leads you to leaving a split and your whole day is ruined by 1 shot since you shot 190-210 and have an insurmountable hole to dig out in such a short format.

[@gunz300]

I don't mind seeing a couple events on tour having big scores, but when you have majors where it takes more than 230 a game to make the cut you know you're doing something very wrong. These patterns they're bowling on just don't match the modern day criteria for what is "difficult" anymore?

[@MGW1974]

Thanks for the insight on patterns. It's part science and part art. Balancing the lefties vs righties with asym patterns sounds like a headache. 🤙🤙

[@shawncarter4265]

I agree with the lower rev rate and having to move in and play in the leftover oil for me typically results in more corners or single pins in general. 3 or 4 of those a game along with occasional 2 pin combo. 210-220 is absolutely a good game.

[@JonHop1]

I really want to see the PBA and USBC regulate scoring more. While I get it, they think striking sells, I kinda disagree. when every WSOB pattern has 235 avg to make cut, its just getting a bit ridiculous at that point. And many of these animal patterns are supposed to be "hard"... when the cutline is 230+ every pattern, that is not at the difficulty it needs to be. We should be seeing the cutlines around 215. Everyone I talk to in my bowling scene wants to see the Pro's challenged more. And a few Tournaments have been truly enjoyable when the pattern has a much lower scoring pace.

[@Alex__James]

Can you make a video about the difference between a tough pattern put down for a PBA event vs a local tournament? I see the PBA guys bowling scores that are not attainable when I bowl on these patterns, including by very talented and even hall of fame bowlers. How the field bowls and breaks down the pattern is massive.

[@jmorphius3619]

I agree. I’ve been saying that for years. No bowler should ever be shutout. No style should have a distinct advantage. If we’re being honest this is a big reason 2-handed bowling has become so popular.

[@74snipernase50]

Just start with 2 ball and nothing more ball changes entry for 1st ball and 1 spare ball.I think that would improve the sport which I loved but not so much anymore.But hee money money money for storm and hammer etc etc

[@mikecraig109]

JR, you couldn't be more on target with your assessment of this. We drive up all the time to bowl SSO. Greg has crossed with us several times and we have these discussions. SSO likes to use house. The right gets so beat up, that the left gets better the longer the event and we all know metro Detroit has some of the best 50 and over players in the country especially on the left side. Last year, they had 11 left-handed winners in the 14 events including the entire top five in the year end was portsiders. When you bring it the board of SSO's attention, they fear they will lose their entries if they make them harder. I get that they are an amateur event, but even a challenge pattern could slow the left side a little. 50 and overs tend to make them wet/dry on the right because the players all beat that 15-8 area to death and the middle doesn't get blended out really well. In a PBA event, they should be tougher period. These are PROFESSIONAL events and should reward the best players that weekend or week.

[@johnwillock6787]

Was this brought on by the struggles of Cody on the scorpion and Shark? It was pretty obvious he was in this boat.

[@j23p24]

i think the animal patterns need to go away or come up with some new ones a that are harder, or tweak the ones they have. i could not agree with u more on the pba trials how they need to be tougher for shot making and such. thanks for the vid sir!!!

[@tomholloway7566]

Ask 10 bowlers about what lane conditions should be you’ll get at least 30 different answers 🤪🤣

[@Tenpindoctors]

Not pba guys. 99 of 100 would say they want lower scores

[@judweber3338]

I think there is a place for both high and low scoring place. The much bigger issue is the left vs right side. The World Series of bowling was not a fair competition. Both cheetah and especially scorpion were dominated by the left side.

[@ripvanrevs]

And the USBC open pattern 4 and masters were 20 pins harder for lefties.

[@judweber3338]

@@ripvanrevs Yup

[@traveling.down.the.road56]

A half hour warm up is too long, as you said. Ten to fifteen minutes should be sufficient for anyone, and the less time given, the more it will showcase the best bowlers, who can figure out the lane conditions the fastest.

[@traveling.down.the.road56]

I’m a novice at age 67, so take that into consideration if you reply to my comment. Don’t the power bowlers have a higher chance of getting splits, than a stroker or roller type bowler? Sure they also get more strikes from the violent pin action they produce, but I see a lot of ugly splits, but maybe I just haven’t observed enough PBA to know.

[@Thekingpin01]

♥🎳.

[@IcemanJim63]

I believe people sanding down there balls tears up the oil surface too much. There should be a minimum 2'000 grit ball surface or somewhere in that range and, in addition, each person should only be allowed to bring 3 balls to any/all tournaments/League. The 3 balls you go in with is the 3 you are stuck with that entire day of play.

[@mikecraig109]

It is very hard to regulate ball surface in an event other than banning it once the event starts. The expense of purchasing the surface scanners on the market would wipe out the smaller house type events. Plus, you now have to do a ball check for every competitor in the event prior to starting the squad. What a nightmare to run a tournament!

[@kstark321]

I hate bowling scorefests let alone watching them.

[@charlesluttrellpyk]

I think you are right. Bowling is getting like other sports. The only thing people want to see is home runs ,dunks, and the pass. And skill and talent get stolen to the wayside.

[@stephens9772]

If they just make throwing with your left hand illegal it will solve all the problems lol

[@enigmazero8624]

There must be a way for pattern integrity to return to existence. The reason we never see a middle range scoring pace is because the players either carve the pattern into something easy or destroy it and make them impossible. What is the thought process of going fresh-burn-fresh at the masters this year? At that point why not just have every squad be fresh? Where do we draw the line?

[@markmatroni631]

Well since amateurs are paying retail for all the bowling balls and pros gettin them free, pros throw Yellow Dots …….more ball regulation.

[@LuckyStrike457]

Starting from 2018 they already plan to make the scoring pace very high to make the game more interesting

[@byronfranek2706]

Maybe they could put down a long high volume 3:1 inverted oil pattern in the qualifying blocks to cull out the lower skilled bumper bowlers.

[@AverageBowler]

The unfortunate truth is this.. It's just like all other sports, whether it's basketball, football, etc. The casual fans of the sport want high scores. If a casual looks at a broadcast and see a 187-217 score they're going to say "oh these guys suck I can do that" and turn the channel. The "smart people upstairs" feel that the purists of the sport will watch and bowl no matter what. They're trying to bring in new fans. Again, similar to basketball and football. It is what it is and it's not changing. I just hope they never add bowling to FanDuel or draftkings

[@Tenpindoctors]

Never add bowling to draft kings? That would help bowling more than anything. Not sure why you wouldn’t want that

[@AverageBowler]

I agree that it would increase popularity, but two things would happen. 1. They would see increased interest/revenue in bowling and scoring paces will never go back down. I'm sure they'd look for ways to allow for an ever higher scoring pace so that everyone could go for that "bowl a 300 on TV" bet. 2. The risk of fixing games or the thought of fixing games will become a thing. Kyle missed that 10 pin in the 10th frame for the play-in game, and no one in the world thinks it was done on purpose. Add "outside money" to the equation and it starts to become a question in the back (or front) of people's minds. Which would ultimately take away from the game

[@Tenpindoctors]

@@AverageBowler I see it the opposite. The controversy is what’s missing in the game. We need that

[@AverageBowler]

@@Tenpindoctorshaha okay, maybe I'm wrong about the impact it could have on the game. But I think it's accurate to say those things would happen

[@Tenpindoctors]

@@AverageBowler yeah they for sure would happen. I agree

[@ScottyThompson-lt7wl]

Cool video talk tech bowling Jr Raymond

[@zedsodead]

Newsflash! Bowling, like life, is completely unfair.😅

[@edtellier3635]

The House I bowl league at uses 3 or 4 different house shot patterns. House says tells us it the same every week but the guy who runs the lane machine tells me different. He switches pattern every 2 weeks ranging from 37' to 42' patterns and one week the scores will be low and 200+ bowlers will struggle. I don't mind the when the do this, in fact it keeps our league averages in check. House runs the summer sport shot challenge and uses the Kegel patterns, we bowl on each pattern for 2 weeks and the first week you will see lots of low scores until we figure out the pattern, 2nd week the scores will be higher because what we learned the 1st week. House is good at letting lanes sit for 20 to 30 minutes before the 10 minute practice which lets oil settle a bit before we bowl. There is times when I do not get the read of the lane, but that is what bowling is all about, my brain vs the lane condition vs right ball to use vs everything in between, rev rate, where to stand, release of ball, etc. I am still learning this game from week to week for the last 55 years. Heading to Nationals in Vegas and heard lane condition may be tough this year. Good luck and Good Bowling. Love the tips you cody have done lately. Thanks.

[@jeffnewman8261]

There's less lefties than righties, so what if they make both sides of the lane the same, but group more lefties together and keep those groups on a smaller group of lanes so the traffic, and therefore transition, is similar to the right side?

[@rock98931]

I understand that the right side def. transitions way more simply bc of the # of right handers on the lane, but wouldn't it still be more of an advantage to just have a side to yourself that won't get affected by any other player during your game? Also couldn't a lefty, in theory, just use a solid ball to start with since they've got more oil?

[@711slimshawny]

I've been saying the same thing all week with these scoring paces at the world series. I think ball technology has exceeded oil technology right now and things need to balance out again. Its just a seesaw thing between the 2 and balls are ahead. I completely agree with ya and I have the 220+ league average and 175 PBA average to go along with it. For the level that these pros are at the patterns are too easy.

[@washingtoncountymarylandre3697]

I am an old bowler (63 yrs of age) from the era when the columbia yellow dot was the ball to have. I participated in the High Roller and Hoinke Classic tournments back in the day. Many of the bowlers that were in the High Roller scene became big stars(chris Barnes etc) on the PBA tour. I have become a big fan as of late of the PBA mainly because of you folks( Brad & Kyle, Darren Tang, Packy and Belmo) and your you tube channel. I don't know if it is the talent, the lanes or the balls but it seems that especially as of late it is just a strikefest. It seems crazy to me that you must average 230 to make the top 16 this week in all of the tournaments at the WSOB. I almost feel like it is becoming less fun to watch as it just looks too easy out there. I would like to see them somehow make the game a little more of a shot makers game and not a strikefest. It must be frustrating knowing that someone is controlling a variable that will or may determine your livelyhood. Good luck and it was nice to see you guys do well in the doubles and Cody make the top 16.

[@mrb43605]

The WSOB quickly became boring once you could see the way the scores started out ! The bowling industry along with Bowlero are doing a disservice to the game! Especially since the prize money today is not any better than in the 60's! At least back then, players had double the tournaments each year so many more players could earn a living on tour! Except for about 3 or 4 players a year that make good money every year, but there is no structure or stability in one's life only making $60k / year with all the expenses and loss of a life structure. The ABC killed bowling way back, when it let technology take over the game!