Rekluse Clutch Tuning / Setup Tidbits (non-standard setups)

[@onthethrottle7104]

Steve Smith, this entire video and thread was the best information on the Rekluse clutch set up and adjustment on the entire net. Great job and super helpful to so many people! Hope you are still ripping on your bikes, thanks for all your information! I read every single comment and your follow-up's and you stayed with every person and provided spot on information. Great job.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for your too kind feedback and comments... If it only helped one person it would still be worth it. Yep ... Still riding ... However, I do have a new 2024 KTM 300 XC that I've owned for 3 months and have yet to ride it!!! Life getting in the way of life .... Lol....

[@onthethrottle7104]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq Awesome news about the 24 XC. I have the 24 300 XCW. I just went through the entire spring issue with my bike. Slavens said six steel springs for this particular bike, didn't work at all. Tried three steel and three silver, almost worked. Called Rekluse and they said six red springs. I installed those and now it seems great, although I still need to ride and verify and that will be done today. I hope you get out soon on your new bike!.BTW, your information sure helped me big time, thank you!

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@onthethrottle7104 Nice!! Not sure if you picked up on the importance of having your idle set where you like it and the engine at temp before checking/adjusting the springs & Freeplay. I didn't cover that adequate enough in my video. Hoping to ride my 24 300 XC within the week....but our temps are hitting right at 100 degrees...so it will be a shorter morning only ride! Which Rekluse kit did you go with?

[@onthethrottle7104]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq Went for a ride today and everything was perfect! With six red springs engine brake holds all the way down to idle, and when taking off it locks up right away, as soon as you touch the throttle it's locked up. I broke it in per Rekluse and then took it up some nice hills and it's adjusted perfectly. Even after running the engine for at least 45 minutes everything works perfectly and no adjustments needed. With the idle set at good spot, the freeplay is perfect...it's just all working perfect. My left hand rear brake is also working perfectly. Going riding tomorrow as well but this time I'm going into a real gnarly area I'm used to and I'm excited to give this new system a test. I went with the Radius X, 4.0- it's the same one Slavens said to go with on the new XC and XCW's. The clutch pulls really easy and nice compared to a few buddies I ride with that have the 3.0, their clutch pull is kind of hard. They run 2020 XCW TPI bikes, so it's really the same clutch system for the most part. I will report back after tomorrows ride! Hope you can get out and ride as well. Thanks again!

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@onthethrottle7104 Thank you for the update and clutch model info... Sounds like you have it dialed in nicely.

[@MacawAviculture]

I have installed Rekluse auto clutches in all my KTM 350/500 enduros and my 2017 KTM 1090R. At 73, safety on difficult trails is my priority. Recently purchased a 2023 Beta 480 RR and my first mod was a Rekluse auto clutch. Great video, thanks for sharing!

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback... I've only done 3 installs...the third one being after making the video... Hope you have a Great New Year!

[@mikeburnett6222]

Best explanation I've ever seen, Rekluse should use your videos for training. I have a 500 as well and will be trying your set up doo. Great job!

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback. Glad the info is of some value. One last tidbit...make sure you have your idle set where you like it and the engine warm before determining final color spring setup.

[@JoshDurston]

Thanks for documenting your whole process. Very Helpful.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback. One additional note...I didn't emphasize enough the importance of having your idle set where you like it and having the engine at opr temp for said idle. It does make a difference if you like a higher idle setting.

[@m3hsid10]

Thank you for the excellent video! Excellent research and results!

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback... The one thing I neglected to foot stomp, though it is clear in the instructions, is how important it is that you have the idle set where you want it before adjusting/trying diff configs... Hope the info is useful.

[@baloomastiff]

Great video. Detailed instructions awesome

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback. There is only one area I didn't emphasize enough...that is too make sure your IDLE RPM is where you like it. I higher (or lower) IDLE RPM can really change the feeling of engagement and disengagement. I hope the info is useful...

[@hahnmowermotorsports179]

Great info. Just picked up a rekluse for my wife’s quad and we’re dealing with similar issues getting it all dialed in.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

I hope you can get it all dialed-in...and hopefully the info will be helpful in getting it dialed-in quicker/less re-work.

[@hahnmowermotorsports179]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq swapped the springs out this morning and it’s a lot better. Rides exactly how she wants it

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@hahnmowermotorsports179 Awesome!

[@robbo6799]

Great tutorial mate.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback.

[@stihlms]

Great video. Lots of info on these clutches

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the feedback...

[@Aline-lr1tf]

exellent video mate , i was looking for info like this for my 500

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Glad you found the info useful...it was a game changer on my 500.

[@Elpasospinecenter]

Excellent video. Very well done. I think I’m going to do the exact same thing to my KTM 500.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback...changing the springs to a lot softer was the BEST thing I've done for my 500 Rekluse setup...I wouldn't have kept it installed if I had stuck with the Rekluse directions/options that came in the 500 kit. I hope you find the setting/feel you are looking for.

[@fishtailfuture]

I have the same issue on my ktm300. My old YZ the engagement was perfect with very little to zero slipping when rolling on the throttle. The 300 slips a lot on the logging roads. Gonna try what you are doing with the springs. I talked to Rekluse, and they also recommended that I go to the 280PSI Belleville spring. For the same reason you mention in your video for changed the spring preload. So you might try the upgraded spring as well. It flexis a little les that the 300 spring so gives a better engagement. Mines on the way. So I'll find out. Clutch pull will be stiffer though no doubt.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

My engagements were always solid...just the engagement RPM was too high. I went with the middle pressure/stiffness on all three bikes/setups so I still have more B Spring to go if I need it. Thank you for the additional info... I hope you get your setup working how you like it.

[@maxhr1964]

Great info. Thanks for sharing

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback. I hope the info is useful. I'm extremely glad I took the time to understand how to tune these damn Rekluse kits because I had to completely go off script to tune my 2020 KTM 450 XCF (figured I would have the same issues I had with my 500 running recommended springs in the EXP setup). I ended up guessing I would need 6 red springs (the 450 kit doesn't come with any red springs!) to make it work the way I wanted (500 was 3 silver and 3 red but my 450 has a lot taller first gear than my 500 so I felt the 500 setup wouldn't port over.

[@chestertownelectric6290]

I have my YZ450f Rekluse 4.0 set up per the instructions to begin engaging at idle. It feels 100% like a standard clutch, but it never stalls and never flames out and never slips and never freewheels.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

That is awesome your recommended setup works how you want it to... I still cannot believe how good my 250 recommended setup worked compared to the recommended 500 setup...that sucked so bad I wanted to put the Rekluse kit in the trash!!

[@codforlife]

Great video, thanks! What do you think would be the best spring setup for slow speed wheelies/pivot turns. Also slow speed techniques like figure 8's at full lock using manual clutch. Heavy springs or light? Hope this makes sense. Thanks again :)

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

First off, thank you for the kind feedback. To answer your question...I'd first say that it depends on how you ride (RPM range you like)/use the clutch. The auto clutch engagement function (and disengagement) is based on three variables... Clutch weights mass, spring stiffness, and engine RPM. The first thing to do is to make sure you have the engine idle RPM set where you want it (engine full opr temp). A higher idle RPM requires stiffer springs and/or lighter weights. Seeing that the only two things you can change easily, idle RPM and springs (kit comes with different springs)...lets focus on spring stiffness...seeing that idle speed/RPM is set where you like it. So, if you want the clutch to engage just off idle and disengage just above idle (when coasting to a stop), then you want to go with the lightest/softest springs that DO NOT generate too much clutch drag at idle speed (too light of spring stiffness will result in your free-play being partially used up due to the weights overpowering the soft springs and thus causing the auto clutch pack to partially expand (eating into your free-play measurement). Note: if you go too soft on the springs for the weights you have installed then to get the clutch to not drag at idle you will have to increase the clutch spacing and thus will end up having a slipping clutch even at full engagement. If this happens you will have to go with stiffer springs (and/or go with lighter weights--which I wouldn't do--I'd focus on getting the correct stiffness springs installed--correct being the clutch engages/disengages more inline with how you would manually be doing it). Hope this info helps...

[@BuzzWorthy]

Great info, Steve! I really appreciate your R&D. I am going to be installing the Rekluse in my XR650R next weekend. I have no idea how long it will take to get some springs sent to me from Rekluse to try the alternatives. The XR650R kit comes with 4 gold as standard and the softest option is 3 blue with 3 gold (and 3 green hard springs in package). So If I don't get the springs by next weekend, I'll try the 3 gold and 3 blue and probably order 3 silver, 3 red and 3 blue and see what works best. I definitely prefer a quick lock up, a quick release of the clutch, It just slays me to hear people dragging a clutch and knowing they are killing their clutch life. Do you think it's highly probable I will need the softer springs knowing I like a quick engagement as well as compression braking?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Glad the info is helpful. It really is hard to say/predicted...because I have kits in two 2020 KTMs and one kit was pretty close with Rekluse factory setup (as shipped) and one bike was completely wrong with the factory setup. However, if you like the clutch to stay engaged in the lower RPM ranges (I'm speaking above idle of course) then it is highly likely (IMHO) that you will end up with at least 6 blue springs installed (or 3 blue and 3 red or silver depending on which one is the next softest step below Blue). I'm getting ready to installed a Rekluse in my 2020 KTM 450, but it has an extremely TALL 1st gear and thus I do not want the clutch to engage as quickly as my 500 (which has a pretty low 1st gear). I try and tune the Rekluse engagement to match what my hand would do with the clutch lever (the 450 needs some higher RPM with clutch slip to get rolling correctly...I'm going to go 1 step stiffer on the 450 vs the 500).

[@chestertownelectric6290]

Have you considered lowering the suspension? Modern bikes are way too tall.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Not only have I considered it...I've actually done it on 3 of my bikes....and I still cannot touch!!! 🤣🤣

[@codforlife]

also, what is the advantage of heavier springs?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

See my first reply to your first comment/question. In short, I personally wouldn't call different stiffness springs being an advantage or disadvantage over lighter springs. All other tuning variables being equal (weights, idle speed, free-play, etc.)... heavier/stiffer springs just delay the initial and full clutch engagement to higher engine RPMs. A heavier spring setup will have a larger engagement RPM range (from initial drag to full engagement)...thus giving you the ability to use throttle control to maintain the clutch in a constant slip state (partial engagement). The lightest possible (correctly tuned setup) will make the clutch engagement happen from initial drag to full lock over a much narrower RPM range. One last note, a heavier spring setup will also cause you to lose a lot of engine braking -- clutch will disengage in the mid RPM range -- it will coast a lot more than with lighter springs. Hope this answers your question...

[@robbo6799]

I have all the symptoms that you explained on my KTM500. I have ordered 6 red springs so I’ll get back to you when I have installed and tested. Mine come standard with 3 gold (extra heavy) and 3 blue (heavy). I always thought that I had to excessively rev the bike to check for free play gain. I reckon 6 red (medium) will sort it all out. Let you know. Once again mate really good video. Cheers

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Glad you found the info helpful. I think you will love the 6 REDs installed. Special Note: Just make sure you have your idle set where you like it and the engine temp warm enough to allow idle at your setting...this step is super important to setting the freeplay adjustment screw. I've been extremely happy with my setup once I changed the spring colors. You will have to let me know how it turns out...

[@robbo6799]

Wow. Steve I put the 6 red springs in the EXP and it has made a huge difference. Thanks so much for your video mate.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@robbo6799 Glad the info was useful. Thank you for the kind feedback. I made/posted the video because I felt someone else would find the info useful ... It is funny all the thumbs down and comments about just sticking with what came in the kit from the manufacture! And I pretty much know how you first felt after installing the red springs and taking your first ride with them... It is like crap turns to gold! 😉👍

[@jamesbarber6165]

Great video!! What did rekluse say about this? Any concerns they may have had with you lowering to springs not in kit? I’m thinking of doing same thing.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback. Regarding contacting Rekluse...I didn't, and still don't, see the need to...here is why. The auto clutch part/pack has mechanical limits to its thickness (no thinner than nor no thicker than). There are three main variables influencing the clutch pack thickness: RPM, Weights, & Springs. The Springs hold the package at the thinnest mechanical limit. The Weights are moved outward (via centrifugal force) as a function of RPM...as RPM increases the centrifugal force forces the weights outward by overcoming the springs holding the package at it mechanical thinnest limit. The weights do this because they have wedged surface that causes the clutch package to eventually expand to its mechanical max thickness limit (which happens at a certain RPM above low idle). This max thickness is delayed by either decreasing the weights mass and/or increasing the spring stiffness. So, by going to a softer spring all you are doing is allowing the Rekluse clutch pack to achieve it mechanical maximum thickness at a lower RPM (or sooner)...and the clutch engages quicker (less slippage) so it is actually better on the clutch plates and engine oil. Just for full clarification...heavier weights and/or softer springs allow the Rekluse clutch pack to go from MIN to MAX thickness in a smaller RPM range...just the opposite with lighter weights or stronger springs. For example only: heavy weights with soft spring might see the start of clutch engagement to full engagement happen over 500 PRM range....while the light weights and strong springs see the full engagement happen over 1500 RPM. In a worst case setup....going to heavy on weights with too light on springs would make the clutch start engaging at low idle (meaning the clutch pack never gets to thinnest thickness at idle)... at the other end...too light of weights with too strong of springs would delay full clutch engagement to 6k RPM (clutch pack doesn't reach full thickness until 6000 RPM). I've got 4k miles on my 500 EXC without any issues or clutch plates wear. I've only had to adjust the freeplay once...but I check it almost every ride (not with the rubber band...just with my fingers). I hope this addresses any concerns you might have. Have a nice one...

[@jamesbarber6165]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq thank you so much!! It does. Very very well explained. I have had a few rekluse exp setups and they’ve been pretty good. I went from a 3.0 exp to the new 4.0 and there seems to be a lot of clutch shudder at take off in 1st and 2nd and during riding when I go lower in rpms, say during a hill climb in my ride. All trails here. So I’ve been trying to figure it out. Rekluse said get it to slight drag at idle which I understand. But if I go with lightest set up and drag at idle with correct free play my rpm is too high. Like 2300 or so. My bike operates at 19-2100 normal rpms. So instead of using the 3 blue and 3 gold they suggest as lowest for the 4.0 in a wr450. I am going to go with all blue to stay at recommended rpms from my bikes manual. Strange they’ve always been pretty spot on. Thanks again!

[@ardhorenaissance1580]

Dam even I get what U did!!!🤓 great research.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the kind feedback...hopefully some riders will find the info useful.

[@adzythepwcblokeinaustralia5467]

Looks like your exp disk is not fully installed into the clutch basket. My understanding is the exp disk is installed in the bottom of the basket .

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

You might be correct on something other than the three KTMs models I have Rekluse kits installed. But, on my model KTMs I'm sorry to say, your understanding is incorrect. Try watching a Rekluse official install video for EXP setups (KTMs) ... or just download an official Rekluse manual that covers EXP installation for newer KTMs. I'll leave mine installed just like it is with over 4000 miles on it.

[@adzythepwcblokeinaustralia5467]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq my Yamaha WR250F has the exp disk on the bottom. As long as it’s working properly then it’s good 👍

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@adzythepwcblokeinaustralia5467 👍 As long as the correct friction surfaces are face to face I don't think it really matters where in the stack the exp is ... It is still the same thickness.. have a nice one...

[@vortexsophia]

So what was the exact springs for the 500 that were the lightest engagement?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Please do not take this the wrong way, but I first have to make a small adjustment to your question...it will make a big difference for understanding Rekluse tuning/operation. Here is my rewrite: "So what was the exact springs for the 500 that were the quickest engagement?" Note: The Factory Spring Washer and the Rekluse EXP Weights adjust engagement pressure (lighter/harder)...not the Rekluse EXP springs. The Rekluse EXP springs change the RPM at which the clutch engagement starts and the RPM when engagement pressure is at Full (lighter springs allow full clutch pressure engagement at lower RPM). Changing the Rekluse EXP springs does not make the clutch pull any lighter/hard or less/more strong for engagement. Sorry for the short story...I just felt it important to make sure to be on the same sheet of music. The quickest engagement setup are 6 Silver Springs. The next setting going up in RPM--slower engagement is 3 Silver and 3 Red, the 6 Red, etc.. I ended up going with 3 Silver and 3 Red for the final setting. Not sure if you watched the full video, but if you watch towards the end of the video I've done a quick ride demo with setup installed in my 500 (see time link 19:29 for a demo). Note: If you want a lighter engagement then you can use Position III for the factory Spring Washer...that will lighten up the pull some, but might cause you clutch to slip if your drive clutch is on the worn side. I hope this answers your question.

[@jasonscott5043]

You didn’t show, or I missed it, the free play of the lever before and after each adjustment of the springs. If it was out of spec with the heavier springs then it could produce the slow to engagement result you had.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

It was correct (free play)...the video is mostly about what to do if you have the clutch installed and setup correctly but still do not like the engagement zone (see video 14:26 to 15:35 -- I never used the words free play adj but in hindsight I should have). The video hopefully helps first time installers understand that you might have to get springs not used it the factory kit (like I had too with my 500) to make the clutch work how you would like it. I would hope and assume anyone using this info fully understands the importance of having the free play adj correct...maybe I should have not assumed that? Thank you for the feedback.

[@hrsey71]

I just got one for my 350 sxf, it engages a little higher RPM than id like, I think ill try the softer springs

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

It will make engine braking work better/more...the softer you go the close to stock engine braking (in the lower RPM range). If it still doesn't give you what you like then I'd order the next two softer springs (colors)...and go down another step softer.

[@sebastianescudero8712]

Thank you !

[@dont3761]

Good info and I'm sure it will be a little different for each bike. I have Rekluse radius CX clutches for both bikes sitting on the bench(300xcw and 350 excf ) just been watching all the videos.I need to order some extra springs before starting the installation. Have to go for the cheater parts, not as young and skilled as I once was...lol. just have to find better places to ride these days, pretty much everything around Vegas is hammered.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

I hear you and not as young anymore ... and also about the trails hammered in the LV area. An item I neglected to emphasize enough is the importance of making sure you have your idle set where you like it (eng temp normal) before testing out Rekluse engagement feel. I've found other not so hammered trails to ride, but they are more 2-track vs single track. Maybe we can try meeting for a ride one day ... a really fun loop in the Mojave preserve ... but has to be a plated bike (i.e., dual sport). Feel free to reach out if you want any additional insight on the clutch install/setup. Thank you for the kind feedback... Have a nice one...

[@dont3761]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq thanks for the quick reply, I just recently got back into the bike thing after a 10-year hiatus, always looking for new people to ride with, both of my bikes are plated. Went riding with the local single-track guys, fun but a little more hard enduro stuff than I want. I'm retired so, can ride pretty much any time.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@dont3761 I did a 7 yr hiatus ... so I know the feeling. Here is my youtube contact email ([e-mail]). Drop me a contact email some time ... I'm still working so I'm mostly limited to weekend rides ... but I'm getting pretty close to full time retirement! 🙂

[@dont3761]

Installed clutch on 300 today, they sure are finicky. I was having a hard time not getting it to pull so much at idle, ended up with the medium engagement 6 silver springs, could not get the low engagement to work 3steal,3silver.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@dont3761 I haven't installed, or ridden with, a Rekluse in a 2-stroke bike. Running 6 silver in my 250 (4stk) allows the engagement to happen just off idle...with a smooth feed-in. I could see the engagement being too quick/hard with a 3xsteal-3xsilver setup (in my 250).

[@MarkSpencerAZ]

Are you in AZ? Looks like it. Great video and work. My wife rides the Husqvarna FE350S and I am about to install Rekluse in hers. Her greatest issue on the trail is the lack of engine mass and what I call inertia torque, i.e. torque that carries you through an obstacle at low RPM like a 500 des. I am hoping the Rekluse helps her here. I don't really need one, but am tempted, and appreciate your homework and explaining the difference between bikes. I also like to lug mind, at 61 years old, I don't want any surprises and the lower RPM keeps things more controllable, IMO.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

I'm actually in the southern NV area...near the AZ boarder. Thank you for the kind feedback on the video/info. I'd get the engine idle where she likes it (important step) then you can play with the springs to get the pull/engagement where she likes it most...my guess is it will be in a zone with slightly higher RPM...which means almost no engine braking at lower RPMs. I'm 60 myself and usually like a luger over a screamer...I think my KTM 450 XCF has one of the best engines I've ever off-roaded with...pulls in any gear and still can turn the higher RPMs like a small bore. I hope you get the setup working to the liking side of things...

[@MarkSpencerAZ]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq close enough!. My wife and I have an RV we tow a gladiator with our dirt bikes in it getting all over the Southwest this last year. I'll put the recluse in her 350 yesterday, follow the instructions to a t, including setting the screws to position IIII based on the clutch stack thickness. It seems to work like a dream. The clutch engages just off of idle, which is admittedly high because of the issue she had stalling, but I may leave it there since it works so well. Engine braking also seems to work pretty darn well, better than I thought. How to break it in and check the oil screens for any debris.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@MarkSpencerAZ Cool on the Gladiator and RV stuff.. That is awesome the install went so well...my 250 install was pretty close to the same as your 350 (worked per directions)...it was my 500 where the install guidance didn't work out for me. Happy trailing!

[@MarkSpencerAZ]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq I was tempted to put one in my 500excf, but I'm thinking that perhaps just a clutch weight or flywheel weight instead.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@MarkSpencerAZ I considered both those options as well; however, I really like my motors to have a lot of snap and the Rekluse was the only option of the three that didn't flatten throttle input snap. I ended up putting a third Rekluse kit in my 450xcf ... I find more PROS than CONS for each kit installed (on each of the 3 bikes - 250, 450, 500).

[@chopiesel]

Heavier weights in my 500 were a game changer. They should come standard with the heavier ones.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Agree, heavier weights and/or light springs (than what is included) should be standard in the kit. I felt that the recommended setup for my 500 would have worked really well in a 125cc 2-stroke...but was totally unlivable for me in my 500EXC. Have a nice one...

[@patbramble8958]

How would your setup work for the Dirt only? I have a 500XCW and only ride dirt. I'm looking at a rekluse and how would work in the dirt only application?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

My setup works in the dirt pretty much as if I was doing the clutch manually. For you though...I'd want to know if you ride in a taller gear (i.e., lug the motor) or if you use more mid-range rpm for gear selection. Either way, I think you would like at least an all RED setup...which is not a shipped option in the 500 kits...just order 6 red springs from Rekluse. Hope this info helps...

[@hh6a431]

What was your idle speed on the 500 for the testing?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

once the engine was completely warm...about 50 rpm below factory recommended setting. I didn't mention it in the video, but you should make sure your idle is set where you want it then adjust for freeplay..then change springs if engagement is too soon or too late for your liking. Be careful not to keep using freeplay adj for too soft of springs with your idle setup, because you can end up not having enough total force engagement of the clutch pack with too much freeplay having to be dialed in. I hope that makes sense.

[@benzeneAndCordite]

Did you encounter any clearance issues installing this on your 250? I have a '21 350 XC-F and the clutch stack is thicker than Rekluse's specification chart by over 1mm. I can't set the installed gap because it hits the inside of the new Rekluse clutch cover. They sent me a thinner throwout washer but it's still nowhere near enough clearance.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

That bites...sorry to hear that. Lucky for me I had no such issue. In fact, I installed the same model Rekluse kit in all (3) of my 2020 KTMs and without any clearance issues on any of the bikes (250 XC-F, 450 XC-F, & 500 EXC-F). Are you just installing the EXP Core or is it a complete Rekluse clutch setup?? Note: The kits I installed all were the complete clutch replacement...so I only had to measure the clutch stack for spring preload setting (pos 1, 2, or 3). Additional info just in case you are interested: I used the middle setting for spring washer preload on all three installs.

[@benzeneAndCordite]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq Thanks for the reply. I installed a complete RadiusCX kit. I measured the new clutch stack out to 32.19mm... their manual only goes to 31.8mm for the 3rd spring setting. They sent me a thin washer for the throwout bearing but it's still not providing enough clearance. I'm thinking one or more of the parts in this kit may be incorrect for my bike.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@benzeneAndCordite I think you might be right (wrong part(s) in kit). Have you checked each part against the details parts info listed/shown in the Rekluse Manual?? I believe that at least one of my kits has several different clutch plates thicknesses...with a specific order on the install (order doesn't matter for overall thickness)...maybe you have a few of the thicker clutch plates in your kit. I'm interested in what you finally find. Note: I've got some additional info on setting up these clutches....I'm most likely going to do a new video but if you want the info before drop me an email address (I'll delete/hide the post right after seeing it).

[@jimmycrowell8854]

Steve thanks for the video. Just to clarify it sounds like you’re saying the softer the spring the quicker the engagement? Rekluse seems to say the exact opposite so I just want to clarify with you what you found to be true

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

That is correct, the softer the springs are in the EXP clutch pack the lower the RPM required to engage the auto clutch. I'm going to give a longer answer just to make sure I'm not misstating things. The springs actually hold the two-halves together with clamping force based on how strong the springs are...the stronger the springs the more the clamping force. The EXP weights are static, meaning their mass does not change (is not tunable)...so you control the weight mass movement (auto clutch engagement RPM) via the amount of clamping force trying to stop them from being flung outward thus causing the EXP halves to separate and start to compress the clutch pack (steel and friction plates). Going to softer springs reduces the EXP clamping force thus allowing the weights to move outward sooner in the RPM range...if you go too soft with the EXP springs then the EXP pack with start engaging/dragging the entire clutch at idle. A good example of what I just typed is at the 9:30 point of the video. Please let me know if you have any additional questions and/or need more info. I just purchased a CX clutch kit for my 450 (showed up today) so maybe I'll do another Rekluse video on how I set it up (I'll be doing the exact 500 setup/tune in it which means I had to buy additional softer springs from Rekluse because the springs that come in the kit are too stiff/strong for the setup I like--I ride a gear or two tall, so my RPM range is lower than most riders). I hope this provides the clarification you sought...happy trails!

[@jimmycrowell8854]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq that is exactly what I was asking Steve thanks. I have a 350 xcf so what springs combination did you end up running for your 250? I would assume something similar for the 350 would work

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@jimmycrowell8854 So, here's my additional two cents on initial (good guess) setup. IMHO there are several key factors that "have" to be considered/factored into spring choice: how tall first gear feels, how high is normal idle rpm (preferred by user), and how much torque can the motor generate just off idle (this becomes more of a factor when 1st gear is taller than normal). For example, my 250 4T has a super low 1st gear so quick engagement is fine even though it has limited torque off idle...however, the idle will be set slightly higher because of the small displacement--I run 6 silver springs in it and it works perfectly for my tastes (however, I had to lower the idle speed just a fraction because the clutch has a small grab-release feel every few power strokes...like the RPM was fluctuating about 100 rpm and when it got to the higher end the clutch would do a slight drag engagement when stopped/parked. My 500 4T is setup with 3 red and 3 silver springs...it too has a fairly low 1st gear, but tons of torque off idle and a slightly lower idle RPM target. However, I'm most likely going to use (1st try-guess setup) 6 red springs on my 450. The reason for this is because it has an extremely tall 1st gear (almost feels like 2nd) so I want a little more slip to build speed before full engagement (but I might end up just trying my 500 setup if I do not have 6 reds...I know I have at least 3 reds and 3 silvers). I think I would use/initially try the same setup in your 350 4T (3 red & 3 silver)...I'd only go 6 silver if your 1st gear is extremely low. Hope this info give you a good guess starting point. You will have to let me know what you end up with and how you like it (just make extra sure you have the free-play setup correctly--you can get wrong/incorrect feedback if you have it setup wrong). Have a good one...

[@jimmycrowell8854]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq man that's a tone of great information thank you. I appreciate all the time and effort you have poured into setting this up well that I get to reap the benefit from. I will start with 3 silver 3 red recommendation on the 350 as I think it has a bit more torque than your 250 and probably sits between the 250 and 500. I will let you know what happens. Here in midwest can't work on setup until it warms up enough as I was told not to make any adjustments on rekluse clutch until bike can get to running temperature.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@jimmycrowell8854 Remember, get the Free-Play setup correctly before doing any "I like" / "I don't like" testing/comparing. Regarding the temps, as long as the clutch/lower end is at a operating temp you can adj away...I'd get it all setup in your garage with the initial free-play adj...then go riding like any normal ride and after a short bit check free-play adj again (adj if needed)...then ride more...check free-play again (adj if needed)...repeat if needed. Note: if the Rekluse adj are that sensitive to weather/temps then you will have a winter setup and a summer setup...but from my experience you really do not need to keep adj free-play just because the weather changes (assumption is that the clutch/lower end get to somewhat normal op temps). The only thing you need to really adj once installed is free-play (which is extremely quick and easy)...and should be checked (once set correctly) at least every oil change or more freq depending on how hard you are on the clutch.

[@justiniwanicha5514]

did you use the red and silver springs that came with the 500exc clutch? or did you use red and silver 250exc springs? or are they the same springs across all kits? watching at work and kind of distracted.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

The color of springs dictates how soft/hard the springs are...i.e., silver is silver no matter what kit silver comes in. The EXP weights can be different from one kit to another...the heavier the weight the quicker/the lower the RPM for engagement. Opposite for the springs...the softer the springs the quicker/the lower the RPM for engagement. So, seeing that the big bore KTMs (450s & 500s) do not come with RED or SILVER springs I had to order extra springs (BLUE, RED & SILVER) from Rekluse. Note: idle RPM can also impact clutch engagement quickness...so, have the idle set where you want it with engine warm before checking to see what color springs you want to go with. My 250 uses all SILVER (it has lighter EXP weights so it needs softer springs for lower RPM engagement), my 450 uses all RED (it has heavier EXP weights but a really tall 1st gear--so I wanted the RPM a little higher before full engagement), and my 500 uses Half SILVER and Half RED (it has heavier EXP weights, same as 450, but the 500 has a short 1st gear...just off idle engagement works perfectly with 500 power delivery). All three bikes have almost completely normal engine braking...and clutch engagement control as if I was doing it with my hand. Hope this info helps...

[@justiniwanicha5514]

Wow! Great info, thanks for the thorough response!

[@Motoseaner]

Thanks

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

You're welcome 👍

[@bctreerider]

did the springs come with kit or do you order seperate?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

The KTM kits come with 2 diff colors of springs so you can adj some. However, there are at least 5 diff colors of springs from Rekluse, so if you need to adj outside the colors that come in the kit you will have to order the extra colors/springs from Rekluse.

[@MrMotoX450]

After doing the full install, the engagement was much too late. I found your video extremely helpful so I decided to start trying different springs. I went through the same process you did and came to the same conclusions with each setting. I ordered red springs and just finished swapping to 6 red and it is much better but I wouldn't say perfect. Is it really that much better with silver and is it worth ordering the silver springs, or should I just stick with the red?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

I'm sure you have already done this, but just it case.... Here are my thoughts: I would make sure (double checked) you have two settings where you want them, and where they need to be, before trying Silver springs. Note: 1 & 2 have to be correct before you can know if Silver is the way to go. 1) If the free-play (orange rubber band test/setting) is exactly where setup calls for then Silver springs are most likely the next best option -- but read 2 first. Note: If the free-play is a little on the more open side of adjustment then engagement will feel late. 2) If your idle is exactly where you like it (and 1 is correct) then Silver springs are the next best option. Note: if the idle is on the lower side the engagement will feel late If both 1 & 2 are correct, then I suggest you take a small amount of free-play out and bump the idle up a tiny bit...if that makes your clutch more to your liking then 3 Silver springs most likely will give you what your are after. If it still doesn't feel how you want it, but improved, then most likely 6 Silver springs will get it where you want. Another thing can cause slow engagement...that is using a softest Spring Washer Setting with a worn clutch (i.e., using old clutch plates)...IMHO new clutch plates most likely would work good enough even on the softest spring washer setting. Hope this info help...

[@patbramble8958]

Dude are you in Vegas? Saw the Sticker on your forks.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Yep...Vegas...

[@PropellerMan1]

thanks !

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

You're welcome... I guess you are thanking me for providing what I learned... 😉

[@PropellerMan1]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq haha yep, and I learned that you learn that it whirling ! 😏

[@mathewsharp233]

Don't they sell heavier wedges? Instructions for my 500 say something about heavier wedges for modded engines, I've put a 590 thumper racing kit on it so was expecting to have to get different wedges. Done 2 rides with rekluse installed , noticed exact same thing cruising to trails on back streets it slips a bit until revs pick up, I put a 300psi bellville spring in it after the first ride, seemed to make a big difference but pretty sure it's still doing it,next move after watching your video try all blue springs.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

They may, but when I looked at the available parts on the rekluse website they only listed spring options...no wedge options. Either option would result in the same result...springs seem to be an easier and cheaper option for rekluse to provide...much easier to provide more options/steps in setup with springs (able to mix and match)...wedges would need to be all the same weight (IMHO). I hope you are able to use the info to tune the setup to your liking...i HATED my rekluse until I changed the springs....love it now! 👍

[@mathewsharp233]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq Thanks probably wouldn't of bothered with the springs if I hadn't watched your video, get what your saying springs are easier, cheaper and wedges need to all be the same although maybe could use 3 of each, parts list that came with my kit lists part number 741-016 Wedge Assembly KT350-Medium x 6 so looks like there is probably 2 other weights, guessing your 250 came with lighter wedges, maybe KT250.Did you get a parts list with the kits? The slight slip doesn't bother me that much, it was bad at first but got better after brake in and better again with 300 spring and can't say I noticed it at all in the bush but if it helps with the free wheeling would be a plus, it's the only thing pissing me off so far.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@mathewsharp233 yes, got parts list...500 is same as yours ..250 just states exp disc. I had both EXPs out at the same time as they seemed to be exactly the same other than the 6 springs. The springs resist the EXP expanding...that is why softer springs get you lower RPM engagement. Going softer also helps massively with off throttle engine braking...mine disengages about the same time I would be pulling the clutch lever in. I'm getting ready to install the same model kit in my 20 KTM 450XCF...but I'm going stiffer than the 500 due to the 450 having a super tall1st gear...ill need more clutch slip to get it going, but I'll lose some of the low RPM engine braking. I bought extras spring colors when I got the kit so I could tune it more to my liking vs the factory setup. My 250 was pretty close with factory setup...my 500 was crap with the factory setup...havent a clue to how the 450 will fair...i guess it is the tie breaker!

[@mathewsharp233]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq Just out of curiosity what are the springs worth where you are,guessing your in the US? Im in Australia,can bet they will 3 or 4 times more here.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@mathewsharp233 $5.00 US. But they are worth every penny and then some. Hello from the US...Las Vegas, NV. I spent a few months living in Newcastle back in the 90s...had an excellent time.

[@emperorofmankind5840]

Great video, 2019 ktm 300 tpi with core exp70hrs on the clock just started to stall when engaging 1st what do you recommend

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Thank you for the feedback. Regarding your question: There are several causes for what you described. Here are just a few: Too old of trans oil, burnt clutch plates, weakened EXP springs, EXP base-halves not completely returning to full compressed rest state (gummed up, weakened/broken EXP springs, broken EXP spring retainer), Pressure plate adjuster some how came out of correct adjustment, and/or engine idle speed set too high for EXP settings/springs. Note: a worn clutch will not make you bike stall in 1st...it will be just the opposite, your clutch will not engage as good/solid as it should. My guess is that it most likely should be one of the other things I listed. Here are a few troubleshooting suggestions--this assumes that you are using the correct trans oil and change it as required--because wrong oil and or too old of oil will cause the problem you described--If you are certain it is not the oil then try the following: 1) Lower the idle RPM some (even if you didn't adjust it higher) and see if you still have the same problem...if you do not, then it most likely is either a Pressure Plate or EXP base issue/adjustment that has gone out. If it was a clutch disc issue then you would most likely would still have the same problem at lower idle settings (but it still could be an EXP base issue--just not as likely). If you installed the Rekluse yourself then I'd pull the clutch cover and do the following in this order 2) Pull clutch plates out and check surfaces for any scaring/issues that could cause drag. If all looks good with the plates the 3) Check EXP Base for proper operation (make sure it operates smoothly and freely...fully closes by itself and has equal spring tension for all 6 springs (3 and 3 is two different spring configuration/setup). Then 4) I'd put the clutch back together and readjust the Pressure Plate Adjuster setting for the correct free-play. Hope this helps. Let me know what you find out and/or if you have any additional questions. Best of luck with it...I hope it is something very easy and cheap to correct.

[@emperorofmankind5840]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq l im even more confused so many possible causes , oil is changed on average every ten hours with the recommend spec one thing happened on my ride before it started stalling was I went deep into a river and flooded the engine and when I got home few hours later water had mixed with transmission oil and turned it white so I'm wondering if this has affected the clutch could be a possibility, it works perfectly if I pull the lever in but will stall if I release it and still in gear.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@emperorofmankind5840 You definitely should pull apart the clutch pack...look for "burnt/scared/gummed up clutch plates". Sounds like an extremely high probability that you have too much drag on the clutch...it most likely can be adjusted out via the pressure plate adjuster, but IMHO you shouldn't do any adjusting until you verify that your clutch pack is still serviceable. You might doing another oil change if you only did one after your flooding/swim adventure. Hope this info helps.

[@emperorofmankind5840]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq checked the free play and there wasn't any so turned the slave adjuster rechecked free play was all good clicked into gear and all back to mormal ,not rode it yet fingers crossed its good, thanks for the tips will update after the next ride

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@emperorofmankind5840 I'm glad that it was simple fix. Strange though because free play usually goes out of adjustment where you end up with more slipping...not less. Some food for thoughts... I still think you should check you clutch plates/stack because if they were dragging adding more free play would fix the problem (but it would be more of masking the real issue). I'd at least keep an eye on if over time you have to remove some free play because it starts slipping more. If that happens then it is a hight probability that you clutch stack did get some extra drag after the swim. At least you have your bike back for the holiday season!👍😁

[@joebrings5817]

So 6-250 red springs?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Yes, you can use 6x red springs in a 250, but I personally do not like that combination/setup. Sorry, but I'm not sure what your question actually is...if you are asking me what my setups are then here is what I went with: 250 has 6x silver springs and 500 has 3x red & 3 x silver springs. Another factor to think about (that I didn't completely mention in the video) is how tall 1st gear is on the bike...the taller 1st is the stronger you most likely want the springs (thus delaying full clutch engagement some). For example, on my 2020 KTM 450 XC-F (that I'm getting ready to install a Rekluse) I'm most likely going to go no softer than 6x red springs because 1st gear feels like 2nd and thus I want a little slower clutch engagement (more RPM before full engagement so actual bike speed/MPH is higher before full clutch engagement). Hope this info helps/answers your question.

[@joebrings5817]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq so ur using 250 size springs in ur 500?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@joebrings5817 The springs are all the same size, just different stiffness. There really is not any springs for 250s, 300s, 450s, 500s, etc... just different stiffness ranges to allow you to tune the engagement for the RPM (off idle) you want. Rekluse gives you their recommended setup and 3 different spring colors to fine tune the engagement. The spring stiffness has absolutely nothing to do with engine displacement...it is all about rotating clutch pack speed/engine RPM (centrifugal force) overcoming the ability of the EXP springs to hold the EXP pack compressed (as if you have the clutch lever pulled in)...stiffer springs equal more centrifugal force required (higher RPM) before the EXP pack expands thus engaging the clutch as if you had released the clutch lever. I'm using a middle/medium 250 setup in my 500 because I ride the 500 1-2 gears tall so my RPMs are pretty low and the Rekluse is setup more for a 3500-4k RPM and above range (to keep the clutch fully engaged). Riding around town on my 500 (in 6th a lot of time) puts me below the Rekluse full engagement spot so I would get a lot of clutch slippage until my speed got into the 45+ range (or I would need to downshift to 4th)...the 500 can easily pull 6th (in-town) for high 30s up to top speed. I hope this detailed info helps out...I know it made me go from hating having a Rekluse in my big bores to actually loving them installed (I always like it in my 250, but it is a higher RPM motor).

[@joebrings5817]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq oh 👌. Got it. Yea my 2020 Crf450r recluse clutch came with blue n green. The clutch already had 6 gold springs medium setting installed. I used 3 blue 3 gold (low rpm setting for my bike) and it seems about right. I only rode on the street to brake in the clutch. It engages right when I hit the throttle and doesn’t delay at all. I also added a fly wheel weight and the bike lugs around in first and second no problem no stalling.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@joebrings5817 I too used the lowest Rekluse Kit setting for my 250 and it works just great. My problem was when I used the lowest/quickest engagement setting on my 500 it felt like I was using the hardest/slowest engagement config. I ended up going half (3) of the springs 1 step softer than the softest that came in the 500 kit and the other 3 springs I used 2 steps softer from softest springs that came in the kit....now the clutch works perfectly. The thing I used (mostly) to determine if I wanted to go softer or harder on the springs was 2nd gear engine braking test...if I felt the clutch didn't allow the engine to get low enough in the RPM range (de-accel coasting) then I went softer on the springs until the clutch wouldn't disengage till slightly above idle. The other test I did was ride in 1 to 2 gear tall...left off the throttle and coast...then hit the throttle again to see if the clutch locked up quickly or slipped some...my 500 slipped a lot! You might try doing those tests on your CRF while riding on the street. Hopefully it works like you want it to...my 250 did with the kit springs, but my 500 was soooo bad that I wanted to pull the Rekluse back out and sell it!

[@1skinnypuppy]

Thank you very much. Xr650l

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

You're welcome...hope the info is useful.

[@1skinnypuppy]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq super useful. The 650 is a bit big in the tight stuff but it's street usefulness makes it a must at this point. The size issue is compounded by the the slightly hi gearing and it has been geared down a bit. It will only do 70mph wide open. The real issue with gearing on the 650L is the second gear gap. It's quite tall for city street use. So I picked up some interesting insights from your vid. Big bike long day odd gears. Rekluse could just make life a little easier. And for a moderate aggressive rider on a bigger torquier bike would likely be happier to be prepared to set up the clutch on the heavier side. Definitely one of the best Rekluse clutch vids I've seen. Anyway thanks again.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@1skinnypuppy 👍👍

[@adonyxxx9988]

I have a ktm 450 sxf. If I put this clutch on can I still wheelie? Like I can easily pull it up in 4th gear with effort.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Yes...the clutch will still work just like your stock clutch (when using the clutch lever). The only real difference is when engine RPM gets close to IDLE RPM...the clutch will automatically disengage. You also don't have engine braking near IDLE RPM...you need to keep the engine RPM above IDLE to keep the auto clutch engaged to allow full engine braking. Hope this info helps.

[@JoshStreetDesign]

Turning that little allen key makes a dramatic difference on my XC-F. Too much and the bike explodes outa my hand at the slightest twist of the throttle and creeps way too much when off the accelerator. Too much the other way and the you can rev it to the moon and barely even move. : )

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

The allen adj is "only" for freeplay. You can get the same results (you mentioned) with a normal clutch by changing the clutch cable freeplay (same things as turning that allen adjuster). The tuning stuff I talked about in the video is not about freeplay...

[@JoshStreetDesign]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq gotcha. So my bike is a 2017 xc-f 350, what springs do you recommend I run? Great comprehensive video by the way.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@JoshStreetDesign What color(s) do you have installed right now?

[@JoshStreetDesign]

@@SteveSmith-wl8yq no idea, I didn't install it. Gonna have to open it up and check.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

@@JoshStreetDesign Hold off on that...we can take a look at what most likely came in the kit and make a pretty good educated guess from there. I'll take a look at what I can find out tomorrow.

[@robertlynch7855]

The idle is a key tuning aide for the rekluse. Most run too low of an idle and you get the clutch disengagement at low throttle. Ktm 500 is 1900 rpm. Yours sounds low in the video.

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

Agree! In hindsight I should have stated that info (idle) in the video...thank you for providing the feedback. Regarding my 500 idle (bike was coldish, so not up to normal idle yet...and I have a GET ECU so I do not have to run the idle on the high side as KTM likes to do to compensate some for stock lean condition flameouts. For me I do not like running an idle change to get the rekluse to work how I like it...so either change idle or EXP change springs. If you want to keep your idle close to were you like/have it (prior to installing rekluse kit) then spring option is the way to go (IMHO). Soft springs allow normal/to lower idle speeds and stiff springs require upping the idle if you do not like the engagement zone or lack enough engine braking. I didn't like how high I had to up the idle speed on my 500, so I did the spring option. The funny thing is a 2020 KTM 250 (or 450) states IDLE 2250-2350, but a 2020 KTM 500 is 1800-1900...yet the 250 has the softest springs from the factory with the 500 having the stiffest. The EXP is Medium Mass for 250s and Heavy Mass for 450/500s...the 450s and 500 would require heavier springs to keep the same RPM engagement (mass equation). With the lower factory idle RPM of the 500s (vs the 450 & 250) you automatically require softer springs due to the lower speed of rational mass...yet the 500 kit comes setup with the stiffest springs of all three kits! That is why I hated the kit in my 500 and loved the kit in my 250. Taking what I learned from the other two bikes I got my 450 install working just how I like it with the first setup (went 6 red springs which is not a factory option with the shipped kit).

[@easternyellowjacket276]

Did you notice that when the auto EXP is working without using the clutch lever, it makes more noise than when you use the clutch normally with the lever?

[@SteveSmith-wl8yq]

I haven't noticed any significant difference in clutch sound between stock and EXP setups.