Releasing Refrigerant into the Atmosphere (this is how you know) 

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

Do you tend to find excessive moisture on systems vented and then opened this way? I'd expect moisture would seek the cold expanding refrigerant but the continued expansion might keep wet atmosphere from entering, thus my curiosity.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

You’re exactly right the continuous expansion has a constant positive pressure with refrigerant slowly constantly pushing out words as the technician replace the part so you get less to know atmosphere intrusion

[@knk3220]

Hi Tom, I saw some videos of those fancy machines that it can recover compressor oil from the system. Can we do it by adding extra parts between the high side port and recovery machine? Or do you see the rationale of doing so?

[@coldfinger459sub0]

For automotive air conditioning there is no machine sold for the purpose of just recovering oil while you’re recovering refrigerant. Just a regular recovery machine by accident can remove about 5 mL to 30 mL dreamed of doing recovery process on some vehicle not all. There are machines designed to flush out the system using a solvent or clean refrigerant just to remove oil if that is what you’re talking about. But they cannot do it through expansion valve for office tube. It Hass to be physically removed or disassembled. There is a adapter plate that you put in place that is just hollow tube holes exact shape and size of an expansion valve so you can flush the refrigerant or solvent through the entire system without restriction. I used to own one of these machines.

[@knk3220]

@@coldfinger459sub0 Why I was asking is because I saw some shops claims to have those machines that not only do the 3R functions but it has ability to change most of the oil in the system: www.tabernacle-e.com/wp-content/uploads/Kooltec-iPlus-Brochure.pdf I was skeptical because I watched your several hundreds of videos I don't see you mention a word to change oil other than vacuum pump oil. And those shops often mention the benefits of changing compressor oil will bring back cool A/C, although I believe a complete refrigerant recovery and correct refill is the main reason. So I wonder what should I answer if any customer ask why the service doesn't include compressor oil change, etc.

[@grandchungusandhobbies3707]

@@knk3220 As t lech mentioned, in some of the past videos i believe, too much oil jn the system, it affects cooling performance because it acts like an insulator and reduces thermal transfer. As for getting all the oil out, in one of the MACs monthly mags, you can drill out an old expansion valve so theres no restriction when performing a flush of the evap core to get the oil out. Of course not all expansion valves are the same. Like in my situation, a 99 Nissan Maxima. The expansion valve is inside the evap assembly and isnt easily accessible like most modern day vehicles where its mounted on the firewall. Those I believe are more easily serviceable vs my situation. Again, not all expansion valves are the same. It would depend on your application which way to proceed. Furthermore, regarding refrigerant recovery and behavior. T Lech mentioned utilizing a freezer. Law of thermal dynamics. Heat will move to a place of less heat.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

@@knk3220 yes there are machines with built-in flush equipment to remove oil. You do notice in their advertising they claim without removing components they’re talking about the expansion valve. It is possible and they do say only 95% of the oil. And that would be in the absolute perfect condition on the perfect type of system. I can perform the same task with my recovery machine one full tank of clean refrigerant one empty vacuumed recovery tank. But it’s a long process that takes a long time. And you cannot get out the oil that is down inside the sums of some compressors that a hold a few ounces of oil. And flushing out the old oil and replacing it with new oil is a false advertisement it does not make the system colder. Now flushing out the oil of a system that has way too much oil in it from the type of guys who think they have to keep adding oil every time they recharge the system then that will help the system get colder because there was too much oil in there not because it was old.

[@deckers1234567890]

Hey, I need some advise! I suspect they overcharged my AC with oil (80ml). The compressor now and then makes some noise, when I turn it by hand it feels like it's pumping solid liquid now and then. I did crack the valve a bit at the inlet of the compressor (Not a service port, just an extra valve) and there was liquid oil and gas, I suspect the oild doesn't need to be liquid there? What's the best way to handle this? evacuate at the low side but really slow? Or at the high to force some oil out? My guess is that there is 50ml too much in there.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

How do you know they charged by 80 mL too much oil did they tell you that’s how much they put in and there was actually no reason to put in any ? Is this on a vehicle that has a very small oil capacity around 2.77 ounces to 5 ounces ? or is this on a large vehicle like an SUV with dual air conditioning with a oil capacity of 7 ounces or more ? If you had a containment vessel that was large enough that you could put under a vacuum and this containment vessel that could hold the pressure of refrigerant could be airtight but able to take it apart like remove a lid with a gasket. If it was me with no air-conditioning equipment and I was just using my imagination I will try to find or build some sort of vessel that under vacuum like it suck out the refrigerant from the liquid line as quickly as possible and that would pull out not all of the oil but some oil. And then if you had a low side fitting attached to the top of this vessel that you can remove the refrigerant slowly from the top side of the vessel only bubbling off and evaporating and removing the vapor refrigerant it would be a distillation process and the heavy oil would stay behind on the bottom Then you can pour out the oil into a measuring calibrated beaker measure how many milliliters of oil you removed

[@mikedokmak7929]

How you can know how much oil been out? I have the fieldpiece recovery machine and i need to buy something shows me how much oil goes out of the system after recovery and vacuum.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

In the first place 1: you should be recovering only from the low side section. The majority of the time it will slow down or stop oil recovery but it’s still can recover oil through the low side.. 2: you should be throttling back and slowing down the flow of the recovery. Using the dial on your machine.. 3: do you monitor through the site glass on your gate set? You can literally see if it’s only refrigerant vapor coming through the low side of the blue hose. It goes across your manifold by the site glass and then down the yellow hose to your recovery machine.. If you have the speed of refrigerant tapered back, slow enough, only vapor comes out no oil . There is a Product by the company called AirSept It will separate out oil and any foreign substances like sealants that are also in the system and then you can measure it out. It separates it to the bottom you can release it in measure it. .

[@aycabbas]

great again, why the factory doenst make the setting of LP off setting higher to protect the compressor?

[@coldfinger459sub0]

Money it all comes down to money if you were to components the cheaper the car can be the only have to get it out of warranty and then if it breaks down there guaranteed to make money off of your broken parts

[@xXTECHxKNIGHTXx]

Huh, shouldn't the pressure switch kick the compressor off if the low side falls bellow that threshold? That's been my experience anyway.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

Notch on all models. For a cycling clutch switch lights on the systems that have accumulators that is the purpose of the low side switch it also controls the temperature by pressure. But in other vehicles it only uses the low pressure as a proving switch. Meaning if it sees over 44 psi when the ignition key is turned on it automatically assumes there’s enough pressure or the temperature is high enough to allow the compressor to be engaged. That’s all after it starts it’s no longer in the circuit to save the system and turn the compressor off it will keep operating. It’s like the old idiot late for the engine. Often by the time the check engine light came on because the engine was overheating it often overheated too much in already cause some damage and that’s why they called it a idiot light. You could say the same thing about most low pressure switches on automotive air-conditioning system it’s an idiot switch This is what happens when people don’t read books they just listen to somebody else who doesn’t know what they’re doing either who don’t read books. First Einstein gives a lecture on all the proper information. Homer Simpson was attending the lecture and when he gets back home he misunderstood and did not understand everything Einstein was saying but because he went to the lecture of Einstein all the The village people think he’s the smartest guy in AC so they listen to what he says. Then Larry Curley and Moe who got their information from Homer Simpson who are the owners of shops or mechanics pass the word that they got wrong and did not quite understand and make it even worse and give the information to Beavis and Butthead. And this is why our industry has so much miss information that is based off false information individuals who make up specifications based off feelings based off theory based off guessing I’ll because they don’t read the manual and they cannot apply one manual from one car to a different year make model vehicle because the manufactures change the equipment and how they use it. On higher end vehicles they use a combination of pressure switches and temperature switches over a duration of time. To calculate that the refrigerant pressure is low. And depending on the manufacturer for example after three start ups of attempting to operate the air-conditioning systems if it senses the pressures and temperatures that indicate the refrigerant charges low it will come and the ECU to permanently shut off the compressor and never allow it to engage again until you take it into a shop to clear the codes and diagnose the system and or recharge the system fully. I remember back in the 70s and in the 80s there was many cars with no low pressure switches and you would have cars coming into your shop so low on refrigerant the low side suction would be operating in a negative vacuum for example -8 psi vacuum -15 psi vacuum. And because many mechanics did not read they thought this meant there was a plugged expansion valve and sell the customer expansion valve take the dash apart pull out the evaporator replace the expansion valve Then when they charge is backed up it worked perfectly but there was nothing wrong with it to begin with it was only low on refrigerant so they thought they fix the problem and that they’re a genius and they diagnose correctly that it had a bad expansion valve And what was even worse we had one Honda dealership in my local area who would condemn and tell the customer they needed a new compressor because it was operating in a negative vacuum. And all this because somebody is lazy and they don’t read. Learning by breaking things is not learning Learning by false diagnosing parts that don’t need to be replaced and replacing them is not learning Learning by watching somebody who doesn’t really know or understand what they’re doing it is not learning That’s just a recipe for learning how to do things incorrectly breaking a lot of stuff replacing a lot of parts that don’t need to be replaced when it all could’ve been avoided in the first place just by reading

[@xXTECHxKNIGHTXx]

@@coldfinger459sub0 Thank you for the explanation, this is so true, this is why when I go to hunt for information out there I always cross reference my sources and read up on procedures to make sure the info I'm looking at is accurate. That is crazy that there are still makes and models out there that will allow the system to operate to destruction, it seems like a simple pressure switch that either turns the compressor on when it's at the right pressure or off when the pressure is low would suffice, and when you hear your compressor constantly clicking on and off you'd know there would be an issue. Or say when the switch is triggered enough times in a certain window it throws a CEL code or something to let the driver know. Do you use digital manuals from sites like AllData? I'm currently trying to troubleshoot an issue with my 2000 F350, where it draws down the low side until the pressure switch cuts the system off, pretty sure the clutch is also toast as it looks like its slipping really bad. I've got a video up on my channel documenting what I'm seeing.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

@@xXTECHxKNIGHTXx i’ve seen your video what is the outside ambient temperature? The system is designed and operates by the cycling clutch switch I think because I can’t see your whole system off of the accumulator ?. If it is too low on refrigerant it will cut off often If it is too cold outside it will cut off often If there is a restriction in the office tube buy metal or piston ring material it will cut off often And yes if you overcharge it it will make the clutch slip But there’s no way to over charge it if you properly recover all the refrigerant out and then only recharge it by weight then you know you will always be correct You do not try to fill the system up by topping it off very rarely does anybody ever get that correct. They might get it close but they won’t get it correct. Too easy to undercharge too easy to overcharge. Check the clutch gap make sure it’s in specifications When the clutch is engaged make sure the virus and get in 12 minutes to the clutch under load

[@elmejor06]

Is there any way I can remove the refrigerant myself without releasing it into the atmosphere? I have got the gagues and the vacuum pump but there is around 40 psi on my low side. I want to take it down to zero so I can refill it with a vacuum.

[@grandchungusandhobbies3707]

You need a recovery machine & tank to recover the refrigerant. The machine in essence is a compresor with a condenser built in to allow the refrigerant to condense “become a liquid” before going into the recovery tank. Some of the refrigerant gets trapped in the oil during recovery. So to aid in getting most of that out, the system being recovered needs a heatload to aid in the recovery. When a heatload is applied, the refrigerant boils off from the oil and becomes vapor. I believe this is covered in EPA 608 @ 609. Please correct me in im wrong.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

@@grandchungusandhobbies3707 yes you are correct

[@coldfinger459sub0]

What is the high side pressure. Some cars don’t equalize pressure right away after being turned off. Or if it’s colder out side below 45 psi you can read 45°F or below. If it was 85°F outside and both your low side and high side or 45 psi that would be and you only have a very tiny amount of vapor refrigerant estimate about 1 ounce. You do need a recovery unit, but. Some automotive shops will recover your refrigerant for free. Just some not all. But if you had a lot of refrigerant. And you had a recovery tank and one of those small freezers that go down to -20F below zero. You can put a hose on a recovery tank that is vacuumed below 500 µm. And if you have a long enough hose leave the tank inside the freezer attach your low side hose leave it on overnight. And by the next morning 99% of your refrigerant will be in the tank. The laws of physics Understanding the three gas laws. You can accomplish a lot and understand air-conditioning and better than just a guy who replaces broken parts

[@crvinva]

@@coldfinger459sub0 Approximately how many ounces does it take to reach saturation pressure?

[@coldfinger459sub0]

@@crvinva this has nothing to do with ounces this is something you have to study and learn about By the way you asked a question do you definitely have a lot to learn nothing wrong with that we all had to start sometime. But that’s why you have Wikipedia you have Google and you have KZbin with some KZbin providers that are actual true HVAC instructors who give free training. One day as I retire or get close to that I want to volunteer and donate my time and become a college HVAC instructor but that will take a lot of dedication. You only work three days a week it only pays about $100,000 a year so it’s not much money here in San Francisco California but it’s OK for three days a week as a retired person with no debt no bills.

[@basscat242424]

So if the shop would have just refilled the refrigerant nobody would have known the better correct?

[@coldfinger459sub0]

This shop dose not recharge refrigerant. The R1234yf machine is too expensive. It not worth buying for how few they do in a year. Many body shops stopped recharging refrigerant because the insurance company will not pay them enough to make it worth their time. Many body shops who have contracts with the insurance company insurance company will pay them so they lose money or don’t make money. Make a mistake. It cost much more money and net loss of profit to have somebody have to fix their mistake. . The body shop that I go to have the equipment to recharge refrigerant . But they don’t because they got smart and discovered they can make more money having me do it for them and the insurance company pays me because I’m third-party outsourced vendor, mechanical shop at mechanical labor rate which is paid much higher than the lower pay of Shop labor rate . So they just sublet the procedure out to me and get reimbursed from the insurance company .

[@petershepherd6889]

Is it not illegal to deliberately release refrigerant to atmosphere. Garage should be prosecuted.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

Yes in United States it is illegal. Remember there’s a lot of people who don’t care about legal or illegal as long as they make money off of it and nobody can prove or see them do it.

[@user-cs1ne8gx9u]

Yup unfortunately it happens all the time.

[@stephancordell697]

Yup volcanoes go off and destroy 10 yrs worth of ozone conservation. China India could give a hoot China building new coal plants monthly. All that matters is 45 in 2024.

[@coldfinger459sub0]

Yeah, I know but we all try to do her little tiny part. There’s 7 billion of us on this planet.. If just 6 billion of those 7 billion did all the little things they could cannot pollute it would be a better world

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

I'm constantly picking up trash discarded by passenger cars and trucks that drive by my house.