Repairing a Lionel Postwar Whistle Tender

Troubleshooting, repairing, cleaning, re-soldering, and tuning a plastic-bodied Postwar Lionel Whistle Motor. The Lionel Whistle Tender's model number is 6020W. Lionel used the same type of whistle motor in the 6466W, 671W, 6026W, and the 2046W Whistle Tenders. Much holds true for the 2466W, 2020W, 2666W, and 2426W, etc.

[@seanb5405]

Thank you so much, I’m repairing my great uncles Lionel train, this brought my grandma to tears when I made it whistle again, he passed a few months ago and she’s been really upset. Thank you again

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Made my day to see this comment. Thank you for sharing.

[@theaveragerailfanner7447]

I hope your grandma is doing better. ❤️

[@nickltrains6952]

Nice job repairing and cleaning the coal tender. I had to do the same on my 1951 coal tender and 2-6-4 steam locomotive. I enjoyed your video. Thanks for sharing how to repair the coal tender. Greetings from New Jersey

[@benzacct1]

👏🏻👏🏻. Great pres Jim! Thank you!

[@markmccummins8049]

I take that Jim was also Best Boy? Excellent video Herb! I may take a second look at my whistles.

[@TheDizzyrizzy]

That was awesome Jim! Thank you!

[@andrewaugustyniak2765]

Good information about the lionel trains

[@sweetlou5902]

Very good instructional video. Thanks kindly. Now I'll restore my new to me tender.

[@FlipFlopandFly]

Great video !

[@jacobl6572]

I didn't see how the relay was fixed from sticking? I just fixed one by adding a little spacer of electrical tape cut out of like a U in the tape, doubling over the two thin strips so they stick together. I then shoving them into the two holes that the bottom flapper plate ride on, with about 1/2" full tape sticking up on the side of the relay holding it all together. It is a perfect 3/4 width to match the side. This takes up some of the slop where the flapper plate hinges and does not allow the flapper plate to get a square contact on the slightly magnetized coil pin, thus allowing it to fall away when the power is lifted.

[@Squid1562]

I have a postwar 221 with a lame whistle unit. It doesn't like to whistle, it just buzzes. It only started doing this recently, so I opened the tender and was completely confused. This vid help a lot

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Potato27002 : this is a hoot! I just broke out my 221 and tender. Both look like they had been thru a war. I hope to have them up and running soon. We’ll see.

[@trainjam6596]

DA, THANKS DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IT HAD GUTS LIKE THAT....PRETTY COOL......THANKS HERB.....

[@briansheridan4900]

I have a 6466W whistle tender that I am trying to repair. The problem I am experiencing isn't covered in your very helpful video above. I am experiencing sparks coming from the coil that the wires from the truck connect to. When this sparks the connection is lost and the whistle wont blow. With the plastic cover off, I can manually keep the connection (but that isn't any fun when watching this circle my Christmas tree).

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Brian, this sounds like it is dirty or weekend springs on the truck. What you might want to do is clean the entire truck with alcohol to see if just cleaning is the answer. The next piece is to replace the spring. Also, I always replace the wires on a tender that hasn’t been tended to and a while. Remembering that that was built about 1954

[@rickclark7846]

love the end great vid.

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Someone asked how to remove the top of the tender body. There are four 4 x 1/4 body mounting screws. One in each corner - carefully guarded by the truck. Remove each one and ease the plastic body off the metal body. If it resists ( and I would after 40 years ) I pry it off with a thin bladed putty knife.

[@sherwinfinch]

Thank you

[@static45a2]

I have a 246 post war engine,the Reverse switch on top is stuck in Reverse,was working just fine then all of a sudden it stuck,any Ideas before I tae the Truk off to get to the switch..

[@nickltrains6952]

Hi Herb I enjoyed your three videos will you be making more videos? Greetings from New Jersey

[@h.jameshamill2982]

I'm working on a video on how to repair and maintain 022 Lionel switches. I'm hoping to have it up and running in the next couple of days.

[@nickltrains6952]

Herb thanks, looking forward to the video. Nick

[@Petemonster62]

Herb - Some of the comments mentioned using DC to make a motor run quieter than with AC. I have yet to work on a whistle tender & I assume that the whistle motor and relay are electrically connected to the tender frame - with the other motor & relay wires connected to the center rail pick-up rollers. I wonder if connecting a diode between the motor brush & power wire would produce some DC for the motor & make it run a little quieter?

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Hi: I don't have a good answer for you. The tenders operated off the DC signal produced by the transformer during AC operation. That is as sophisticated as it gets from me. I know the locos use AC. My locos are all pre and post war, so they are noisy. I also know they do not operate with DC voltage. Tried it. Herb Jr.

[@Petemonster62]

@@h.jameshamill2982 - That is interesting about the locomotive drive motors not operating on DC. I was under the impression the motors where AC-DC, or " Universal " - ( with the armature in series with the field coil ) & would run on either AC current or DC current. I think Benz Trainz got some Marx locomotive drive motors to run on DC.

[@johnsurace2330]

Hi Herb, is it possible to put a postwar whistle assembly in the 2008 1484was reissue of the 1954 set? It’s a 2056 Hudson and 2046 Tender.

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Unfortunately, I have not a clue. I suspect it would be an easy do. However, the internal shape of the 2046W body is a little different.

[@pouncytaur]

Would you have access to the schematics and theory of operation for the 671w whistle tender? I am trying to rebuild on that I dismembered as a child, and don't have any referance for the wiring.

[@h.jameshamill2982]

pouncytaur The 671W Tender is exactly the same as the one that you see in the video. The motors are either going to be a WS 75 or a WS 125. I believe the 671W is a metal motor. If you looked at the schematics for the 2466w Online at all sons toy train parts or in Greenberg’s Postwar repair manual, you will find schematics for this motor there. They are simple to work on. And if you need any parts, you can contact Jeff Kane at The Train Tender.

[@hexxoid9263]

I have a Lionel O- Gauge Polar Express set, (The old version, not the LionChief version) and the whistle is kind of funky. When I try to turn on the whistle by pressing the whistle button on the transformer, it does nothing. However, when I press the bell button, the whistle turns on but shuts off after about 5 seconds. I also tested two controllers and I got the same exact results. I don't know what the problem is, so it would be nice if anyone knew what the problem is and how to fix it. Thank you!

[@Squid1562]

Hexxoid sounds like a wiring issue

[@johnwestenberger9329]

You have the wires from your transformer to the tracks reversed. Switch the wires from transformer to track either at the transformer back or at the lockon at the track. Whistle will work off whistle button.

[@RenaissancePeopleNYC]

my motor spins fast but no sound. Any ideas? Its the metal one.

[@h.jameshamill2982]

I think I have the same problem with a 2466W. It has a WS75 metal body motor. And, it has a complete, plastic impeller. It spins like mad and all the blades are in place. I have replaced the gasket. No change. So, when I figure it out I will post an answer. I recently bought it while at a train show. Right now, I'm thinking someone replaced the impeller and it is either not seated correctly or it was the wrong size. So, I'm hunting answers myself.

[@RenaissancePeopleNYC]

@@h.jameshamill2982 I an pretty confident I figured mine out. IF yours is the metal one, the whistle casing is held together by these pegs - they are NOT screws and they are NOT rivets. They are push in pegs. These are now loose and while you can't tell by eye there are multiple air leaks all around the gasket due to the inability of those pegs to compress the case tightly enough to compress the gasket and make it air tight.. Understand there is VERY LITTLE air flow involved here so the slightest leak can affect performance. And here we have MULTIPLE leaks all around that cover plate. On close examination you can see how loose the cover actually is. Those pegs do not have enough force to compress the casing to make it air tight anymore. The pegs come right out they are loose. What I plan to do is to remove these pegs, coat them with epoxy (JB Weld for instance) re-insert them and clamp it tight while it dries. I am confident this can lick the problem.

[@h.jameshamill2982]

@@RenaissancePeopleNYC I like your idea. I think the body of my tender motor is warped. So, even tho I replaced the gasket and then used a double gasket, I am just wasting my time. A friend of mine said get a junker and transfer the armature and relay. I might give it a shot. However, I am going to try the JB Weld idea on the second motor. I will let you know how I make out. Let me know whether that idea solve you issue. Jim

[@RenaissancePeopleNYC]

@@h.jameshamill2982 It just needs to be clamped tightly closed while any adhesive it used on the pins to achieve air tightness. Some Lionel paperwork also suggests painting all around the seal with paint or sealer.

[@RenaissancePeopleNYC]

@@h.jameshamill2982 Hi Jim - I took the thing apart and mine got a little bent from handing I just hammered it flat on a flat metal surface. I used the old gasket (of which there were 2 !) as a pattern and cut a new gasket out of automotive gasket material. NOT cork but a black type material that is as thick as these originals. I coated all chamber barriers with silicone glue and used silicone sealant in all of the peg holes and all around the upper border of the cover. CAUTION! There is a VERY small ball bearing at the bottom of the shaft of the armature! VERY small and it can get lost VERY easily if you don't know its there. Anyway its all put back together and the silicone has to dry and we'll see what the result is but I am confident. I've made many gaskets before for various applications.

[@9forgot]

Herb, why do Lionel whistle (above,) any accessory, and other activate-able motor MAKE EXTRA SOUNDS totally unrelated to the intended sound and annoyingly included in the action? I ask because my bascule and draw bridges "errrrrgh" through their lift & drop moves. Is there ANYTHING that can be done to the motor so that it operates like an MTH accessory - whisper quiet in order to enjoy the coal tenders whistle. Please contact me when OR IF you have an answer. I'm willing to upgrade for quieter uncriticized observation by wife and kids. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Mike Kaludjer Good Question!!! I know that there is usually noise in whistle tenders manufactured between 38-64 because of the slippage of the impeller on the shaft. As for other items, I'm really a postwar person. I have nothing from the modern or MPC eras. I do know that since Lionel is the preeminent manufacturer. As such, they have to abide by what the gov't tells them will not cause other companies to go out of business. Also, the more power is necessary, the more noise anthing makes. I also suspect that some motors from other manufacturers are can motors. Lionel motors are usually open frame. I had a bascule bridge from 1950. It made noise. I can't say what modern ones do. Good luck. Maybe refitting your bridge (perish the thought) with a can motor could quiet it down.

[@9forgot]

H. James Hamill:Go onto KZbin, look up bascule bridge, and listen to what I mean by unnecessary, annoying noise that cannot be on the real world bridge. I have the small, self-propelled Burrows crane car with couplers.When I set it to raise the boom the cab rotates with a noise akin to fingernails scratching on a chalkboard. The TALL coal tower's conveyor grinds annoyingly.-------------------------------------------------------------------I fixed their complaint on the trains' loud running "reverberation." I used underlay across the whole layout covered with black rubber matting.But my family won't play with the accessories. It's less fun without the action units; yet no fun without mom and two daughters. Perhaps one of your fans can help.Thanks for responding,Mike

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Mike Kaludjer Hi Again. I don't have an answer for you. However, I belong to several groups that will be of assistance, I'm sure. One is facebook.com/groups/ClassicLionelTrains/ and another is facebook.com/groups/Ogaugemodelrailroad/ Each of them is a tremendous resource. FYI, my specialty are the locos and tenders from the postwar era. The only bridge I have are the 316 and 317 type. And those are to keep the bows on the Christmas tree from messing with my annual set up.

[@Mr39036ce]

Something that works for some accessories is to use a regulated DC power supply like those used in servicing car electronics.I have one rated at 10 amp I use for running a #97 coal loading tower and two #164 lumber sheds that works well.The reduction in noises going to DC is well worth it.Sadly it can't be used for your whistle tenders as the method used to sound them is a bit of DC added to the AC power running the trains.Also a great idea when used to power the old 022 switches.

[@nickrosal5123]

sir i have a question...please if you can help me...my year 1993 lionel coal tender is acting weired when i put the track is not whistling but if i'll get 2 wires connect to the pick up wheels and put the other wire to brass plate connect to the wheels push the horn button it works i'm positive the pick up wheel touched the middle rail when i put the tender and i'm positive the tender is clean oiled connection is right ...maybe you can give me idea solve to solve this problem...thank you i already subscribe to your channel please subscribe too thanks again...i already put this tender problem to the you tube hopefully they can help me

[@h.jameshamill2982]

Hi Nick: my best guess is a separated solder or wire connection. These Gremlins are tough to find. I have a loco that is giving meet fits with a very similar symptom. When I turn it on its back To test it, it makes connection. But, when it’s on the track it will not make electrical connection. So, I do not have an answer...just a guess.

[@nickrosal5123]

@@h.jameshamill2982 whats that separated connection solder? I spend hours and hours to trouble shoot is a nightmare hihihi....

[@h.jameshamill2982]

@@nickrosal5123 it is the connections at the truck and the whistle unit or motor. A hairline crack or separation is a nightmare to troubleshoot. Faced with this issue I will automatically resolder all joints. I must say that this didn’t solve my loco’s power issue. I still can’t find the problem.

[@nickrosal5123]

@@h.jameshamill2982 thanks mr james i’ll check on that

[@9forgot]

tHAKS. i'LL CONNECT WITH THEM. mIKE