Repertoire: The IDEAL Romantic String Quartets

[@paulwellings-longmore1012]

Very pleased to see Smetana included. His quartets are amongst the greatest ever written. From the outset they are arresting and wonderful to listen to.

[@kylejohnson8877]

To my mind, Dvorak’s 13th and 14th quartets belong amongst the greatest string quartets ever written, but are rarely given credit as such. They show Dvorak striking off in a new, more complex direction, with daring harmonies, inventive rhythms, and thrilling juxtapositions of color and emotion. But despite all this, Dvorak never gives up his gift for direct, touching melodies. I think the slow movement of the 13th quartet, in particular, is one of the most profound and fascinating movements in all of chamber music. Anyone who dismisses Dvorak as a simplistic arranger of folk tunes has obviously never heard these two works (or most of his music, for that matter).

[@kylejohnson8877]

Btw, thanks for putting in a good word for Smetana’s underrated 2nd quartet, which ought to be much better-known. It’s such a wild and schizophrenic piece that very much foreshadows Janacek’s quartets.

[@bartolo498]

@@kylejohnson8877 Dvorak suffers the fate that a popular but rather light piece overshadows some considerably greater pieces. (Not only true for the "American quartet" compared to the A flat and G major ones (I never get the numbers correct) but also for the 9th symphony compared to 7 and 8.) I also agree about the 2ns Smetana, again it is understandable that "From my life" is far more popular but the terse and wild second quartet seems like a cross pollination of Beethoven's op.95 with Czech folk music, thus anticipating Janacek.

[@kylejohnson8877]

@@bartolo498 totally agree. The "New World" symphony and "American" quartet are far from my favorite Dvorak works.

[@renederieux1057]

I know this is an old video, but I want to thank you for this great content. It provides great information in a way that does not trap you/us into "this is the best"

[@ewmbr1164]

Hi Dave, I thoroughly enjoyed this talk. If anything, listening to a string quartet being played (live, or, as here via KZbin, by means of technology at home) indeed requires what you say: "take your time". To me, listening to a string quartet is not something I often do - but whn I do, I take the time. It's like meditation: to let go of whatever occupies the mind, and let it be taken over by (oneself be taken onto/into) The Journey of the music - and to arrive at a place I never would have imagined before... It can be risky, which is why it is important to give oneself time - maybe to hear only one movement at first, and gradually more. One quartet at the time. A relative of mine (who died in his early eighties some years ago) used to put on and listen to a string quartet each evening before retiring to bed. He heard lots of them, and favotites over and over. I am certain he was on to something, and wise in doing so...

[@StephenTarr-l4l]

another great heartfelt talk (and lesson) Thank you.

[@morrigambist]

Brahms made some progress by Quartet #3 in thinning out the textures; it's a very appealing work. Also fine is Dvorak's #9 in D minor.

[@Cesar_SM]

That's precisely my favorite quartet by Brahms. Lively, tuneful, optimistic, even carefree at moments.

[@stephensitarski617]

I had trouble with the Brahms string quartets until I heard the Budapest Quartet recordings. They make sense of the balance, form, and soundscape more than any other ensemble that I know.

[@Plantagenet1956]

Thank you David, once again, for a most informative talk. The String Quartet, is a medium that,I don’t know much about. I think it’s high time I ventured into this genre.

[@dennischiapello3879]

I had the pleasure of hearing the Pacifica Quartet in concert a couple of weeks ago! What a wonderful experience. From the very first note, their intonation and pitch are CONSPICUOUSLY flawless! And their energy was great, too.

[@carlconnor5173]

I have 6 of Dvorak’s Quartets on Vox boxes by the Kohon Quartet. I enjoy them a lot! I love a lot of Dvorak’s chamber music.

[@micolsen9824]

I am getting into my Emerson Quartet BOX lately...and this topic / video has really got me in the mood to dive in beyond the Mozart-Haydn-Beethoven works. I'll make sure I take my time. Thanks, Mr. Hurwtiz

[@WMAlbers1]

Well, there are a few hints I will follow for sure!

[@chrismoule7242]

As someone who has played in, listened to and composed for string quartet, I have to say that I had the most fun writing for the medium, then playing in it, then listening to it.

[@paulwellings-longmore1012]

Is your work available on the internet?

[@robertrosen3969]

...these general topic chats are relaxed and very interesting, please continue to do more...)

[@eugenebraig413]

I love endless galaxies of stuff! Not to mention well-populated record shelves.

[@ermesdezan7147]

Thanks David . Another very interesting lecture . I particularly liked your comments on Brahms and the differences between German and Czech composers . Keep up the good work . I'm looking forward to your analysis and different performances of Schubert's Schwanengesang

[@michelangelomulieri5134]

Agree with the purposes of focusing on romantic quartet repertoire. Agree about the still underrated Mendelssohn's music output: it's unforgivable! As to recommendations, I would not forget the Melos Quartet traversal of Mendelssohn string quartets: tension and refinement wonderfully blended.

[@ftumschk]

I actually prefer Mendelssohn's quartets to Schubert's. I don't know the Melos Quartet's cycle, but I'm sure it's good. My personal "go-to" is the Pacifica Quartet on Cedille.

[@Bezart34]

@@ftumschk Mendelssohn. String quartets. Marvelous works. Lots of excellent recordings 'out there'. Henschell on Arte Nova are very good.

[@ftumschk]

@@Bezart34 I've got the Henschell set, too, and it's very good.

[@ThreadBomb]

The Ysaye Quartet on Decca are my favourite for Mendelssohn. They also do the four late pieces but not the early unnumbered quartet.

[@lukesinclair4337]

Glad to see you mentioning Melos for Mendelsohn. It HAS to be Melos for Mendelsohn in my opinion haha

[@johndillworth582]

Andres Schiff takes the position that the real successor to the late Beethoven quartets are the Bartok quartets. Some truth to that I believe, although the quartets discussed here are lovely . I am partial to the the Smetana and Dvoraks

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

So glad he feels that way.

[@cihant5438]

That is not romantic though. Maybe to a Hungarian it is...

[@johndillworth582]

@@cihant5438 Fair point....although both Bartok and Schiff are Hungarian they may view it differently :-). Probably not. The bulk of the Bartok Quartets were written between 2 World Wars in a dying empire and they sound like it

[@hape3862]

Hehe, what a coincidence - just during I watched this video I was ripping Mendelssohn's and Brahms' quartets (with Artemis Quartet).

[@marknewkirk4322]

I love the Brahms quartets. But I've also played them all. Admittedly, the whole problem in playing them is getting out of each others' way. I think they tend to sound especially crowded coming through speakers. Live, I don't find it to be so bad, when the players make an effort to accommodate each other. As far as being "enjoyable", the Mendelssohn and Schumann quartets have them beat. The Brahms and Schubert quartets take more effort, Schubert because of length, Brahms because of density.

[@keithhansen4891]

Great video!

[@davidmartinez5654]

What about Schumann? His three string quartets are also really good

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Maybe, but they don't belong on this list. They aren't his best chamber works or pieces for which he's best known.

[@johnnelson3665]

All 5 are great. But Schubert wins! This was Schubert at his best!

[@tomross5347]

I got hold of, and am currently enjoying, the Schubert quartets with the Quartetto Italiano. I hope you will get around to a survey of Schubert's wonderful piano trios. I have a recording of them which I bought mainly because it was in a cheap Schubert box -- not bad, but for works as rich as that I'd like to have something from the top tier.

[@johnwright7749]

Another great discussion! I have 16 of the 19 quartets, missing 3 of Mendelssohn’s. My favorite Mendelssohn is Op. 13 that owes so much to Beethoven and his 15th quartet. I will listen again to the Op. 80 because I don’t really know it. Of all the quartets in your talk I listen to Brahms the least for the reasons you cited, though I have fine recordings by the Takacs Qt. Many years ago I bought the LP set by the Budapest so that I could have Serkin’s recording of the Schumann Piano Quintet that was also included. That’s how I got to know the Brahms quartets!

[@bartolo498]

The a minor is also my favorite Mendelssohn quartet and I also rate the other early one, op.12 in E flat very highly. The three op.44 are not on the same level but also deserve attention. I think Schumann's quartets would have deserved inclusion; they seem to be played/recorded far more frequently in the last years than in even in the 1990s. The friend of quartets should also consider at least 1 (very famous slow movement that became a salon/encore piece) and 3 of Tchaikovsky's, the Grieg (mentioned by Dave), both of Borodins. I think the Franck quartet is an acquired taste (and not as succesful as his piano quintet). A real dark horse that is already on the brink of late romantic/early modern expressionism is the single quartet by Hugo Wolf.

[@olegroslak852]

So glad to hear that Smetana's two string quartets, long underrated (ESPECIALLY the second, which I actually prefer to the first) made it on to "the essential" Romantic string quartets. I'd personally put both of them ahead of any of Dvorak's output in the medium (if only barely). I recall looking endlessly for the Smetana Quartet version of the Smetana quartets, which seemed to be difficult to source when I was looking. I think everyone should know that these appear to be still available in the same form that I got them; that is, in a small collection (3 disks) of Czech string quartets from Supraphon called "The Best of Czech Classics." Lots of other great stuff on the other two disks, played by the Panocha and Skampa String Quartets. A "must buy" if there ever was one.

[@marknewkirk4322]

Dave, have you ever heard Szell's orchestration of Smetana's "From My Life"? It's a gas.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, of course. It's been recorded a couple of times, aside from Szell's own mono version.

[@estel5335]

'This is a chat for beginners looking to explore the universe of romantic chamber music.' Awesome! I was about to ask you, if you would like to do such a video for us beginners. So far, I'm not that really sparked by Chamber Music, but there are occasionally some that sound very interesting (still the sound is rather anemic compared to Symphonic Works.. - 'Well, duuuh!', you probably think - it takes some time to get used to, I guess) Dankeschön, Dave! Happy Sunday!

[@ThreadBomb]

I started in a similar position to you, preferring orchestral to chamber music, but now it's the other way around! I think one of the difficulties of accessing chamber music is that the individual musicianship is much more exposed, whereas in orchestral music the individuality tends to be submerged in the homogeneous whole. You need to sample performances of quartets, to find musicians with good intonation and who don't use too much (or too little) vibrato for your taste. I think Mozart's "Haydn" quartets are a great place to start, and I'd recommend the Alban Berg Quartett's first recording (originally on Telarc). That said, I think the recording that convinced me of the importance of chamber music was the Quartetto Italiano's one of Schubert's "Death and the Maiden" quartet.

[@dennischiapello3879]

I have a comment about my own experience adjusting to the sounds of quartets elsewhere in this thread. I would suggest easing into chamber music with ensembles that include piano, e.g., piano trios, piano quartets, etc. Brahms G Minor Piano Quartet might be the best possible gateway drug!

[@shantihealer]

Hey, next up can we have a talk on under-valued quartets of the 20th century? Lots of brilliant ones by the likes of Walton, Moeran, Bax, Ives, Ginastera, Hermann ... good ones, honestly!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Eventually...

[@johnenock7939]

Bartok, Dutilleux, Shostakovich, Maconchy, Ligeti, Lutoslawski . . . . . . yes, many masterpieces. Bax one of my favourite composers!

[@perfectionismdream]

Like literally all of Dvorak's work. #11 is most appealing for me. Somehow it's not so popular but it just sounds so special and beautiful. Not sure if anyone shares this feeling

[@adibhattacharyya8690]

The first movement is just so vast and expansive and epic, yet the whole movement seems inevitable ....it's brilliant!

[@tomross5347]

Years ago, I read a review in which the critic described the music of Brahms as "over-upholstered", and I saw what he meant. It's like a handsome antique sofa with too much stuffing crammed into it -- it looks looks great in the living-room, but settling into the thing comfortably is not so easy to do!

[@johndillworth582]

I have tried to enjoy these both via recording and live. Too tough and gamey for me I suppose. "Not for me" doesn't mean not good but these are too much like homework. Sadly, I've given up

[@tomross5347]

I agree about the NZ Quartet -- their clarity is a big help! I'm not against Brahms, I just struggle to appreciate his dense sound sometimes!

[@johndillworth582]

@@tomross5347 Question to the thread. Not romantic quartets for sure but do you find Bartok and Shostakovich more accessible/rewarding/easier to listen to than Brahms? I for one, do. I just can't seem to crack the code or, as mentioned, they are just too dense? Brahms was just born to late. He wanted to do Symphones like Beethoven and he got good at it. He wanted to write Concertos....no problem..some of the best. Chamber music? Love the violin sonatas and his Quintets speak fo themselves. But the string quartets? I just miss the magic

[@tomross5347]

@@johndillworth582 The quartets of Bartok and Shostakovich actually do seem a little easier to listen to, even though they're so eerie and mysterious (and they often leave me feeling that I'm missing the point). The Brahms quartets are not so difficult to "get", but they have a kind of stifled, closed-in quality. They make me imagine Brahms as an alienated teenager, sitting off in a corner by himself, wrapped up defensively in a heavy coat even though it's June. That's not all I get from his quartets, but the key to a good performance of them is that I'm not thinking of that unhappy teen the whole time.

[@JohnDillworth]

​@@tomross5347 Shostakovich lived in constant fear of his life from an insane Stalin who one reviewed of Shostakovich's opera he had personally seen which included the comment that things "could end very badly " for the composer. Going forward Shostakovich generally made his large pieces , symphonies and "tractor" operas much more appealing to the authorities and the masses. His most intimate thoughts, fears, and terrors were saved for his string quartets, some not published until after Stalin's death. They are about loneliness, fear, repression and terror. The purest manifestation of this is quartet # 8, As with Bartok's quartets, they seem to continue to speak to our current times

[@folanpaul]

Cheers David. My knowledge of the Mendelssohn quartets is poor, but I immensely enjoyed the excerpt that you played, and so they is now on my play list. Thanks! My Christmas present this year was the complete set of string quartets composed by Charles Villiers Stanford, which are to be highly recommend. Stanford wrote some great chamber music.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, he did. Some of it is first rate.

[@jesusalvarez-cedron6581]

mmm after your comment of Mendelssohn's string quartets i will give them an opportunity.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Let me know how you like them.

[@lewtaratua1719]

I have tried several times but never enjoyed Brahms’s three and Faure’s one. I expect someday I will be able to enjoy Faure’s at least vaguely but I don’t know about Brahms’s.

[@dennischiapello7243]

They're no match for the Quintets and Sextets.

[@lewtaratua1719]

@@EnriqueHernandez-zk7qc Thanks for the advice. Boy, Brahms’ quartet No.1 is the most difficult for me. By the way I read your discussion with Dave. All I can say is that we change day by day and nobody knows what happens in the future. It happened to me about Bartok’s and Shostakovich’s. Maybe the good audio machine will help us. So “Keep on listening!” is not a simple motto.

[@iankemp1131]

I love Brahms but I have struggled with the quartets. He seems to need either more instruments (like the Sextet) or less (like the Violin and Clarinet Sonatas). Interesting that Dave picked the Second Sextet as his representative Brahms piece. Feels appropriate.

[@peterattenborough5324]

I was keeping my fingers crossed for Borodin there!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Me too, but they're still not standard fare IMHO, much as I love them.

[@kylejohnson8877]

@@DavesClassicalGuide the 2nd quartet is incredibly popular, especially amongst student chamber groups. The 1st much less so, but it’s an excellent work with a riveting finale!

[@kimjy7118]

David, do you prefer Pacifica Quartet's Mendelssohn set to Talich's set? I'm just curious.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They're both terrific. I don't feel that I have to choose, but the Pacifica has the superior sonics, no doubt about that.

[@angusmcmillan8981]

Great talk, thank you. Just for the record, Schubert’s Rosamunde quartet is named after the incidental music to a play of that name, not (as you said) a song of his. Nice to be reminded of Hans Keller.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I know, but thanks.

[@dennischiapello3879]

I think a lot of casual listeners are trepidatious about quartets, because the sounds of the instruments are so exposed and seemingly harsh, by comparison with orchestral works and piano music. I used to think that I'd prefer listening to string orchestra arrangements. Oddly enough, by the time I actually had the opportunity to hear Bernstein's performance of Beethoven's Op. 131, years after I had acquired a taste for quartets, I felt strangely unmoved. Something was missing, and there didn't seem to be any point to the music. I can't quite explain it. By the way, Leo Tolstoy absolutely hated Beethoven's late quartets and accused anyone who said they liked them of being pretentious and dishonest. Leo and Ludwig were probably two similar personalities, is my take.

[@im2801ok]

Dave, could you please explain why you decided to leave out the Schumann, Franck and Tchaikovsky works? Not "repertoire" enough, in your view...?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That's what I said. I did mention them, so they weren't "left out" exactly. I think my intentions here were pretty clear--the basic collection of romantic quartets. I felt that 19 major works is more than enough.