Replace your 6502 computer's RAM or ROM in seconds with this! (ROMulator)

[@drgiller]

I am enjoying wondering what is the cross-section of people who know both what DIP sockets are, and what anti-corrosion sacrificial anodes are.

[@heskrthmatt]

*Slowly raises right hand*

[@graemedavidson499]

@@heskrthmatt Me too!

[@Okurka.]

Everyone who owns a boiler should know what a sacrificial anode is.

[@DanPellegrino486]

Yup. Live on the coast and I like computing.

[@mlmmt]

*Raises hand*

[@wbfaulk]

Your LIST at 25:01 should be showing '10 PRINT "BAD KITTY!!!"' but it's actually showing '21324'. Yet the program still runs correctly. That's a really fascinating symptom.

[@toyotaae86trueno]

after 40 years we got the VIC-20 Dev Kit.

[@slashtiger1]

Please demo this on other 6502 machines in your collection...! It's awesome for the VIC already, but I'd love to see what it's like on the Apple ][, for example...

[@AnthonyZenrick]

Do it again! But with a Pi Zero W. Solder your own pinheader cable from the Pi. Power the Pi from inside the computer. Close up the computer. Now you have WiFi access. There should be a way to use a transistor to pull the CPU reset or power to the other state for a "soft" restart when it hangs. You could also try a transistor to toggle the CLK on/off for the CPU. Stop the clock, load new RAM data, start the clock. Maybe prevent the hang in the first place? This is all speculative. You have the hardware.

[@dh2032]

Pi Pico more than enough, an it small

[@kevincozens6837]

You can't stop the clock on a 6502. The datasheet shows that the minimum clock cycle time is 40uS (25kHz). Anything less than that and the CPU will not work properly.

[@gallgreg]

This thing is FREAKIN' AWESOME!!! Great technical video, as always, Adrian!!! If only I had one of these "back in the day"!!! :)

[@tndabone]

I have one of the beta test units of the romulator and used it to work on early Atari arcade games.. It was great for trouble shooting . (Night Driver and Football) It currently lives in my Pet 2001-8. Bitfixer also makes a nice sd card drive emulator that also supports wifi loading from a webserver.

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

That's awesome -- I was simply amazed at how useful it is

[@lauram5905]

With a bit of fiddling, that'd be a great way to export BASIC programs as well

[@disposablebasterd]

You have a great avatar.

[@MattKasdorf]

Wow! And not cost prohibitive. Amazing! Take my Canadian Pesos, please! Shipping to Canada is only $13us, so total cost for one shipped is $43us.

[@OzRetrocomp]

Nice. Can't wait to see one of these in action on a BBC Micro at some point. Thanks for the video, Adrian.

[@markevans2294]

The BBC has the ability to page the memory between 0x8000 to 0xBFFF. Supporting up to 16 banks of 16k, Described as "Sideways ROM" though later models, such as the B+ and Master, used the address space for RAM.

[@JordaNeale]

David murray would love this tool, i hope hes aware of this.

[@DanMacDonald]

He's one of Mr Black's top fans so he will be soon if he's not already got one.

[@richardkelsch3640]

What about 65C02 (Atari XL/XE, has a new HALT pin) , 6510 (C64, has extra I/O pins), etc?

[@bitfixer6502]

Hi Richard, Got a new version of the board out now which *should* support the 65C02 as well as 6502, but need to test it a bit more before making that claim fully!

[@_techana]

@@bitfixer6502 Maybe you meant “65C02 as well as 6510*” ?

[@jeroensmaal]

I think you mean 6502C, which is the Atari XL/XE specific version of the NMOS 6502. The 65C02 is a CMOS version of the NMOS 6502 which uses less power and has a number of improvements.

[@richardkelsch3640]

@@jeroensmaal You are correct sir! The thing about MOS' labeling was that it was as clear as mud. Yes, the Atari Sally chip was a 6502C. D'OH!

[@kadorna1]

this is just for microcomputers? being able to use this on an NES as a real time, real hardware debugger would be amazing for homebrew development on actual hardware instead of emulators

[@jwrush]

I don't see any reason it wouldn't work but debugging on hardware I think it would be just as possible and less invasive to make a man-in-the-middle cartridge like the game genie and id be surprised if no one had done this.

[@KittyFae-]

I was thinking of the same thing, shouldn't be too hard to implement an adapter board that leaves the APU and other functions intact. Super curious and tempted to find out.

[@KittyFae-]

@@jwrush Should be able to do it with a Pro Action Replay, but those are difficult to come across and a lot more pricey. Still something interesting to look in to either way.

[@StarkRG]

While the NES does run 6502 instructions, the CPU is only based on a 6502, so it's not pin-compatible. You could modify the romulator schematic to be compatible, but you're not going to get complete functionality because the NES's CPU includes the audio processor which means a small chunk of the memory map is inaccessible outside the CPU.

[@flatfingertuning727]

@@StarkRG The NES chip uses a core whose layout was copied directly from the 6502, except with the patented BCD arithmetic section disabled, so I'd describe it as being more than "based upon" the 6502, but the key point remains that the build-in audio and DMA subsystem will complicate things.

[@evensgrey]

This thing is what's called an In-Circuit Emulator. They used to be really popular for software development in general (if you could afford the high prices they had back in the day). They fell out of favor in systems that got faster because the old way of doing it, with less individually capable chips, usually required a ribbon cable to connect the CPU socket to an external box of electronics into which the CPU would be plugged. As clock speeds got faster, this started having problems with latency, timing, and signal integrity and fell out of use for things like PCs, but are still very useful for embedded systems (which are generally running at much slower clock speeds because they don't need or benefit from using a blazing fast 64-bit CPU over using an 8-bit CPU running at a couple of MHz). With virtualization on modern CPUs, you can produce a lot of the same debugging capabilities in software as ICE hardware once provided.

[@DanPellegrino486]

What a fantastic tool, I can already tell we will see this come out again.

[@mariusberger3297]

good prediction, adrian just announced that he'll use it to fix up a PET 4016

[@DanPellegrino486]

@@mariusberger3297 I was literally watching the video when you made this comment! Hysterical.

[@pharmesq]

25:02 the program mysteriously says "21324" instead of the 10 PRINT line. Yet the program works as intended. Weird behavior.

[@pb7379-j2k]

I was curious about this too

[@fumthings]

@@pb7379-j2k isn't the command "print" represented by a one or two byte token, and line numbers stored as hex but list as decimal equivalent. something like that. so when you go to the basic program space, you need to decode it like the basic rom does.

[@darkwinter6028]

Well, just don’t hack in “Bad Wolf”.

[@galois19]

My God Father was the hardware engineer behind the C64, "Freeze Machine". This awesome device is the modern equivalent of how the Freeze Machine worked. I remember him remarking, "I couldn't believe no one had thought of it before!" The royalties earned him the deposit on his first house.

[@David_Ladd]

Adrian, I see this as a nice way of modding the 1541's as well. have multiple versions of the 1541 ROM's and JiffyDOS in it as well as the memory map so you could give the 1541's extra RAM for running stuff on the drive and custom backup utilities.

[@Retro_Ken53]

It seems to me that this could be very useful in designing a new 6502 based computer, especially when writing the ROM code.

[@evensgrey]

Yep, this is a modern implementation of a classical debugging tool called an In-Circuit Emulator. They fell out of use due to signal problems on PCs as they got faster, but embedded systems, with their usually slower and simpler CPUs still have them as a major tool.

[@jakubpolomsky]

How amazing is this! Thank you Adrian for showing all the features (or at least A LOT OF THEM)!

[@MichaelStafford_is_thunndar]

That's a very interesting device! I put it on my to do list. But I do have one complaint. When you started reading the letter I was hoping you would read using Casey Kasem's voice, "and here's a letter dated from 1973..." 😂

[@Okurka.]

The DIP socket isn't to protect the pins during shipping. You have to leave it on as otherwise the long pins on the Romulator damage the DIP socket on the motherboard.

[@mertuckan]

When I saw the thing, I thought it was a device that allows you to use 6502 for 6510. If only there was such a thing.

[@bmartin427]

@25:03 '21324'? What happened to line 10?

[@fumthings]

isn't the command "print" represented by a one or two byte token, and line numbers stored as hex but list as decimal equivalent. something like that. so when you go to the basic program space, you need to decode it like the basic rom does.

[@bmartin427]

@@fumthings this was the output of BASIC list

[@fumthings]

​@@bmartin427 sorry, i misunderstood, like someone else said looks like corruption but the bytes for line 10 still executed ok but displayed wrong. i think there is a commodore trick to make listings "not display"

[@lesliedeana5142]

If I didn't learn anything here, the tip of using a sacrificial socket for shipping, that was worth my time!

[@Watcher680116]

The romulator could replace hardware no longer available or port it to different devices. From the description it should be able to provide a floppy drive with something like dolphin dos including the extra RAM. I think parallel cable sockets are still available. Or even give a SFD1001 (Commodore 1MB 4133 Blocks free floppy drive) which already has a parallel bus extra RAM and the ability to store a whole track. Probably the necessary code to read, decode and send the track could be extracted and adapted from dolphindos or one of the other conversions for the 1541.

[@ropersonline]

Why is the 10 PRINT "BAD KITTY!!!" line omitted from the listing at 25:02? I don't understand. Can someone explain?

[@fumthings]

isn't the command "print" represented by a one or two byte token, and line numbers stored as hex but list as decimal equivalent. something like that. so when you go to the basic program space, you need to decode it like the basic rom does. plain text is stored verbatim.

[@ropersonline]

@@fumthings You mean that 16-bit number there (21324 = $534C) is just the PRINT command followed by a pointer to a string? Even if true, which I doubt ($53 $4C being S L in PETSCII), why would the decimal get listed instead of the plaintext line 10?

[@fumthings]

@@ropersonline sorry, i misunderstood, like someone else said looks like corruption but the bytes for line 10 still executed ok but displayed wrong. i think there is a commodore trick to make listings "not display"

[@umutk5614]

That is really a nice gadget to have. Thanks for reviewing. I hope there will be 6510 version.

[@desiv1170]

That is truly impressive!!! Tempted to get this for my 2nd Vic-20, just because... If I do, might look at replacing the dip switches with a header so I can bring the switches outside the case for easier access... Also, 9 dislikes? Probably Z80 fans.... ;-)

[@bitfixer6502]

Z80 version is under development!

[@jishcatg]

@@bitfixer6502 Don't encourage them! :-)

[@nilswegner2881]

Too Bad Jokes about dislimes can't be Made anymore due to KZbin being pissed about the amount of dislikes on Last years rewind.

[@neophytealpha]

There definitely needs to be a 6510 version.

[@awilliams1701]

It is JUST 6502 or will it work with the 6510 and other 6502 offshoot CPUs?

[@MrApolloTom]

I don't think it'll be a straight swap, as the 6510 has a different pinout.

[@adriansdigitalbasement]

6502/65C02 right now

[@awilliams1701]

@@MrApolloTom so while Adrian confirmed it's not, it is FPGA based, so it's possible that it could be made so in the future as the pinnouts could be repurposed.

[@awilliams1701]

I think. lol

[@MrApolloTom]

@@awilliams1701 good point!

[@PaoloPalmieri70]

Nice video Adrian! Considering VIC-20, next step could be to have a VIC chip emulator on raspberry pi to use it as video and audio pass through, according to SPI bandwidth.

[@pragmax]

This might be insanely useful for game development. With the RPi sitting between a workstation and a real target system, it could be used to push a build to real hardware. No disks, SD cards, or special cartridges required. Just map it to wherever it's supposed to load into RAM from disk, and maybe hack an interrupt or KERNAL vector to auto-run. A spare I/O pin on the Rpi could also be rigged to the cartridge port to do a soft reset, side-stepping any CPU freeze problems.

[@seansretroverse9082]

I can see this being a basis for a modern version of something like a Fluke 9010a. No need for the 9010 itself or the processor pods when you have a raspI for control. I wonder if it could be configured to test ram, roms, and the vic. Would be cool if it could be reconfigured for other processors too. Handy for arcade collectors for troubleshooting boards.

[@borayurt66]

I am actually amazed how many great open source projects are out there for the Commodore-Amiga series computers. I wish it were like that for the Sinclair. There are amazing designs for it too, almost in the same amount, but unfortunately 95% of them are commercial and a tad expensive compared to Commodore projects.

[@EngineeringVignettes]

I was actually thinking of making something similar for the C64, only a cartridge solution. Mainly for game development and testing though. The product you showed here is nice but it lacks software tools. The ability to load/save only a part of the memory would be handy, along with a monitor to break, step and change memory on the fly. Cheers,

[@kippie80]

It is open source. Do it. There is easy access to 6502 monitor tools online. Use/patch that for more features. I’d made something similar for z80 cpu with an arduino board. Not hard to do.

[@theannoyedmrfloyd3998]

Used on an Atari 8-bit, the ROMulator becomes a tool like the Pro Action Replay cartridge such as for the PlayStation and with a utility you'll have to write, can hack games.

[@charlesjmouse]

What a genuinely fantastic device and tool. At a great price too - I absolutely must get one of these assuming there hasn't already been a run on them. Apart from all the excellent features Adrian has demonstrated with this being a fully programable device there are so, so, many other potential applications. I hope the designer sells a great many of these; both as a reward for his hard work and generosity and for a community to develop around it.

[@PacoOtaktay]

Oh this is a nifty device for sure. I could see this device being used in not just the VIC-20, but the 1541 drives to give them more RAM as well for backup programs for larger buffers. It would be nifty if there was a Motorola 6809E version of this. For things like the Vetrix or Color Computer systems.

[@StevenIngram]

Hmmm. I wonder if it would be possible for this device or something like it to emulate both the CPU and the ROM? Imagine a drop in replacement for the 6502 that gave it SuperCPU-like speed/abilities along with swappable ROMS.

[@microcorelabs7698]

Like the MicroCore Labs MCL65+?

[@JonathanSwiftUK]

Pretty amazing. I'd also like to know if this works on the BBC micro.

[@suvetar]

Genius idea! I'm constantly flabbergasted at the uses people are coming up with for the Pi! That Amiga HDMI hack was awesome of course, but the potential of this implementation for changing your Commodores ... well the sky's the limit! Complete custom Rom, Different language to basic! C64 Forth :D I hope there comes a solution to help with the VIC Screen Memory DMA though. Thanks for another great video! Very inspiring!

[@microcorelabs7698]

Cool project. Maybe could combine their work with my project which can emulate/accelerate a 6502/6510 along with the RAM/ROM. Its called the MCL64+

[@microcorelabs7698]

MCL65+ I meant to say... I also have a version that is a drop-in replacement for the 6510 called the MCL64 :)

[@aw34565]

Great video. I would really like a device like the ROMulator in my Acorn Electron.

[@Pickle136]

if this could bank swap on the fly this could be an everdrive like device for nes

[@FrankenLab]

Seems like it should be possible, perhaps a future update?

[@marcusk7855]

I've never owned a 6502 computer and probably never will but I still find these videos intriguing.

[@FinalBossOfCanada]

man I love your name, "Adrian Black", sounds like a villain from resident evil: WAIT, I GOT IT!; Adrian Black; Villian for Umbrella Corp, has been building traps for Umbrella Corp to stop STARS and BSAA since the company first launched, never looked older due to being accepted by Uroboros, always happy, is disguised by his youtube channel Adrian's Digital Basement.

[@jonmarler]

Excellent demonstration of a very cool tool. It would be very interesting to see how people use this in creative ways.

[@electronicengineer]

Agreed. The possibilities, using this brilliant device, are just about limitless. Anyone that still plays around with the 6502 processor hardware could really push their project to the limits with one of these units. This device reminds me of way back in a previous life I had. I used to employ "In Circuit Debuggers" ICP/ISP dongles, for programming/reprogramming Altera and Xilinx FPGA configurations, for modifying the mapping of first generation Color LCD panels for the private aircraft industry. Really cool to see this in action today. Took me back 25 years... just like that! Thanks a lot for the great video Adrian. I really enjoy geeking out vicariously, through your awesome KZbin channel. Fred

[@andykillsu]

Classic case of does twice as much for half the cost. This thing is quite amazing.

[@marcuswilliams3455]

Yes, this is awesome. However, as updating the "Pass-through" ram, I just think one simply write to the FPGA ram. Then have a routine running the VIC 20, read from the FPGA ram and write that out the "Pass-through" ram. But overall, the ROMulator seems to be great idea.

[@RaymondDay]

It should work in a 1541 drive right? Like a super big RAM board. Can you make a video on this? I like to get one to use like this. Thank you for you video.

[@pfcrow]

Question: As stated, the video chip reads from the system RAM on the VIC-20, probably exactly like on the Ataris (which are what I know), so you need to use write-through. But what if you remove the physical RAM? Will the RAM then be visible to the video chip? Same for the ROM, as the video chip typically reads the character set from ROM. If so, then this would let you run an Atari 800 with no ROM or RAM cards. Then if you could power the Pi off the Atari power supply, there should be room in the case to hide it there, letting you control the Atari externally over WiFi. Instant-load any game directly into memory. I've thought it would be cool to do something similar with the parallel bus on the 800XL, but this would be a perfect solution for the 800. (Now I just need to build an adapter for the Atari monitor port to HDMI for modern TVs.)

[@charlesjmouse]

"Well hello" - Adrian, the Leslie Philips of the retro world. ;-) FWLIW: As this board is FPGA based and is already capable of 'wright-through' a small update to the code should allow for full 'save state' functionality.

[@edgeeffect]

I've just come here from the future... and, yes, indeed... it is very cool and very exciting! ;) In the olden days, we used a lot of CP/M machines and they would load their basic from disc to RAM.... so the game of altering error messages and basic prompts is well known to me. We would spend ages trying to work out obscene versions of error messages that had the same number of characters as the "clean" originals.

[@RaymondDay]

All so it's sort of like the cartage super snap shot. It had a 8K ram chip to copy RAM it used from the C=64 to it's RAM chip so no RAM got messed up when you pressed the button.

[@Alphonsefisheater]

Dear Adrian and Basement community , how are you'all . I have discovered a Quantum effect in comparing circa 1980s computer motherboards and the post 2021 era motherboards . The effect is : those old motherboards had components which are difficult to desolder but easy to resolder ( if you do not have a desolderring station , which again requires high tech vacuum pumps and specialist equipment ) . Then post 2021 we have components which are easy to desolder ( because now we have the desolderring stations ) , but which have tiny little contacts which are difficult to resolder .

[@FrankenLab]

Too much attention to project, out of stock. Another VICtim of the chip shortage? Hope not, thanks for sharing this with us Adrian.

[@Slackware1995]

Load a game, save it on pi, now you can super-fast write it back. Worlds fastest vic20 game loading. Imagine going back in time.

[@UwUSanime]

I'll Rom u Later

[@parrottm76262]

Wow, what a project! Thanks to the author and to Adrian for spending time with it.

[@michaelcarey]

What an amazing device! Value for $$ for sure! Just noticed the program listing at 25:02 doesn't look quite right. I wonder what happened there?

[@fumthings]

isn't the command "print" represented by a one or two byte token, and line numbers stored as hex but list as decimal equivalent. something like that. so when you go to the basic program space, you need to decode it like the basic rom does. oh, the plain text parts are shown verbatim.

[@michaelcarey]

@@fumthings I'm not sure, I'll have to do some checking. I just noticed that when Adrian typed "LIST" after reloading the RAM via the Raspberry Pi console, the program wasn't the same.

[@fumthings]

@@michaelcarey sorry, i misunderstood. i think someone else suggested corruption of the bytes, the program still worked as before but line 10 is no longer visible (i think there was a commodore trick that does this) the next line number appears as a five digit number with no command following it , then line 20 appears as normal. maybe the fpga or Rpi didnt work properly, also the power cycling of the vic20 may have left some random data. Adrian said that when you power cycle it clears the program listing, i think maybe it only erases the first few bytes so the program listing is empty but the ram may still contain random data if it is power cycled quickly. whatever the cause, i suspect if Adrian performed that step again (maybe with a proper power cycle) it would perform properly and the weirdness would disappear. As it appears he didnt notice and didnt re video this part, the little weirdness slipped through.

[@lesliedeana5142]

For regular troubleshooting, I'd add a ZIF socket for the 6502.

[@fattomandeibu]

Watching this makes me wonder if you could use some kind of adapter to make this work as an Atari 2600 multicart of sorts. I mean, internally, they're the same chip, just that some of the pins aren't connected.

[@8-bitbitsa821]

Adrian, do you have a VIC20 config available for download ? or a Pi3 SDcard image maybe ?

[@CB3ROB-CyberBunker]

funny how aliexpress manages to get chips in a yellow envelope with just some pink foam all the way from shenzen to amsterdam in 1 day. without a single bent pin. and all that other stuff over shorter distances takes a week, or 2 (mouser/federal express ;) and either arrives in a box that can fit a fridge instead of just some tubes with chips and arrives more or less damaged. :P most of em parcel services seriously need to start shipping fake packages with gps trackers, cameras and g-force sensors through their own channels and start to fire some people.

[@PeterRichardsandYoureNot]

The only thing I could see this being useful for is to essentially make a copy of a rom cartridge for either piracy or to grab code and then reverse engineer it. Otherwise it just seems like a a novelty. Would like to see this in the 65c02 in apple ][e/c.

[@johnharmer394]

I see Mike has made an updated additional board which means you can run the ROMULATOR without a Pi

[@David_Ladd]

A 6510 version of this would be cool for doing this on the C64's.

[@GameDawgs]

This is like save-states for hardware. So freaking cool for you people smart enough to use it.

[@MrGooglevideoviewer]

wow, a really great product it seems!. I just wanted to say thank you for going to all that effort to expand on what can be done with it etc. I really appreciate your effort. Cheers! 👍

[@CrassSpektakel]

I wonder if we will see a PiStorm for the 6502/6510 plattforms some time in the future.

[@dhpbear2]

35:27 - "It's the motherboard under the hood! It's going zeroes!" - Firesign Theater "Give Me Immortality or Give Me Death" (1998)

[@TradieTrev]

There's a good reason why we can't function processors in this manner 2020.

[@VenomStryker]

Crazy how much more gray hair you have now compared to 2 years ago. The pandemic has been hard on us all....😂

[@kippie80]

Is closest thing you get to jtag debugger on 6502 machine. Cool

[@dintyshideaway9505]

To me, what's so exciting about this product is its the first time I have seen bare metal and a Raspberry PI working in concert to produce a result. It's great to see us moving beyond emulation and just makes the original hardware that much more viable.

[@senilyDeluxe]

Needs to change READY prompt to say RETRO.

[@stanburton6224]

I hope the machine is off while you are waving that wiha pry bar around... shorts are possible.

[@John-uc6gb]

WOW, that Romulator is so cool. Really good video. Thank you

[@BendingInTheWind]

I wish I had heard about this before! It's $40, now. Lol.

[@DishNetworkDealerNEO]

Did Mike ever come up with a Romulator for the 6510?

[@GalileoAV]

I wonder what someone's reaction to this would be if you could show it to them back when they bought a VIC 20 in the 80's.

[@Okurka.]

They would say: can't you just use the Raspberry Pi as a faster computer?

[@lily_anatia]

they'd probably be a lot more interested in the Pi than the ROMulator.

[@DrakkarCalethiel]

@@lily_anatia Sad but true. A Pi 2 at 1GHz is over 11k times faster than a 6502 at 1MHz. A Threadripper 3990X at 4.35GHz is almost 5.5 milion times faster if you go by MIPS.

[@eDoc2020]

This could mostly have been done back in the day with a bunch of 74 series logic chips, it just wouldn't be as elegant.

[@pondermatic]

Wonder if those intermittent crashes are due to the RAM load happening while an interrupt service routine was running.

[@scottwilliams895]

Such an incredible project!! Open Source FTW

[@kernelpickle]

So, it's like a brain slug for 8-bit computers? Neat.

[@RomeoG39]

Yo, Adrian. Great video on an interesting tool.

[@tenminutetokyo2643]

What we need is a mini retro Apple II from Apple. Wonder why they don’t make one.

[@robertgrayson2177]

I have found some of the components un-available on these websites that you listed ?.

[@benjaminscherrey1124]

Sweet! 6809 version please! 😬👍😍😎

[@BloodyCactus]

aah so its an ice, like a ZAX ICD. got it

[@misterretrowolf1464]

This is genius!! I love it. Great video, thanks.

[@AndyGoth111]

25:02 Why does it say 21324 in the program listing?

[@stevenjlovelace]

Captain Kirk could probably use a Romulator.

[@jstep4146]

Will these ever be made again? They are out of stock and comments are all very old.

[@JarppaGuru]

why need change rom faster than its fun to do. good thing is not arduino rom emulation what we allready had. i mean could do it lol

[@cmmusto9506]

wish i had that thing 30 years ago. Like to see c64 on the bench with that

[@rancidbeef582]

Ha! You've got a DMA loader for a VIC-20.

[@douro20]

I didn't know Vilros sold a transparent case. Looks like an older one.

[@mike44njdevils1]

I really hope the Commander x16 testers are using this 😀