Ret Paladin Hero Talents: Reworked AGAIN!?

Welcome back to MarcelianOnline! Today, we’re looking at the war within ret paladin rework and more specifically how herald of the sun and templar paladin synergises with the changes to the talent tree. We got to test war within alpha and played a lot of templar ret paladin, granted on the first stages of the game but we can get a good idea and feedback on the spec.
There will be a lot more iterating until war within beta and we do expect more updates for the herald of the sun and templar hero talents so be sure to stay subscribed to not miss out on any update!
thewarwithin.blizzard.com/en-us/
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[@MarcelianOnline]

JOIN THE FAM! 💥 www.patreon.com/marcelianonline Mountain Thane Warrior in War Within Alpha👀kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGOziZtpfJ2fmJo War Within Alpha FIRST IMPRESSIONS👀kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6KZqnSwe6-Il80

[@geraldhazzard7050]

Herald needs to pop fire wings

[@MarcelianOnline]

TRUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@c.j.b.4879]

Temporary fire wing dynamic flight 😱

[@petersonhermann8932]

@@c.j.b.4879 ok chill out bro 🤣

[@leg0ua]

Need new animation for wings:)

[@Draemencia]

Cries in elemental shaman… Blizzard: with that much moisture are you sure you’re not resto shaman?

[@reptiliancow]

cries harder in Enhancement shaman

[@MarcelianOnline]

secretly excited for shaman stuff to come!

[@reptiliancow]

@@MarcelianOnline im terrified lol

[@Draemencia]

@@reptiliancow I feel for you my brother. I know not knowing is torture but after seeing farseer…it’s pathetic. I feel enhance is in a better spot than ele but not by much. Both specs need a rework and get away from all the RNG. Ele is stuck in the past…it definitely needs more than just a touch up with current game design. I love my shaman but every season I find it harder to justify playing it and it sifts further into back end alt territory. I try every season too but it’s obvious from community perception and it’s glaring weaknesses and the RNG feast or famine that I end up struggling to keep that love alive.

[@reptiliancow]

@Draemencia it was the pinnacle of talent design at the start of the expac. Its gone wrong somewhere, and their class designer didn't seem to get the memo about what a hero talent should be.

[@LordHypnos4]

To say that your don't care about eternal flame is ridiculous its a strong heal with a strong hot that could also proc a dawnlight and save your ass in a pinch. Not to mention that talent that gives you a free wog once a minute when your health is low, its basically a full heal once a minute. Increases your group utility as ret, its a great spell and a welcome addition

[@theboogermcnuggets867]

i was thinking the same thing, i cant even count how many times ive saved the group because my healer died without a brez available and i was healing the group with wog to save our butts, couldnt imagine not caring about self/group heals especially in the +25 key range(i guess would be +15s now)

[@Wakener00]

Eternal Flame is a huge gain for Ret pvp if healing is properly tuned.

[@patrickstadel3224]

agreed, super stoked about that talent for some reason lol.. just love the idea of playing a paladin as a hybrid... which tbf it feels like it should always be, considering you're channeling the light

[@L0rks]

The light shines upon the paladins for they were reworked once again :)

[@c.j.b.4879]

These hero talents seem unique and well developed while adding a tad bit of complexity(skill expression)… one seems focused on Dot(fire blade slashing) and the other towards Burst(holy hammer smashing)… maybe eternal flame can auto cast on self for free, if you fall below certain health threshold and give a minor increase to D.O.T. damage while having a H.O.T. Applied

[@jessemorgan2009]

I am digging it. Might have to raise one up in panda time.

[@MarcelianOnline]

BEST TIME TO DO IT!

[@jessemorgan2009]

The locks are crazy good too.

[@edwardhatfield5360]

Maybe I'm asking the wrong Channel, maybe I'm not 🥹 but I would love to know what Hero talent additional debuffs/buffs or DoTs/HoTs are dispellable by enemy players. I've not yet been blessed with Alpha access to do testing myself.

[@Benoit015]

Consecration and divine hammer count as Damage over time for the purposes of penitence and should also work for with Wake capstone

[@MarcelianOnline]

Ooo, point! That changes things :D

[@Benoit015]

@@MarcelianOnline And I forgot to mention the reworked Templar strike now has a DoT on the second press which will also be affected.

[@chriseggroll]

i think that they could maybe use a couple less hammers with some of these spells ha but both hero specs look amazing! maybe mini versions of your current weapon but that would probably be too much :D

[@sirjame5591]

surely surv hunters must be next for a rework if ret is getting changes again

[@buddybarlow9604]

Crazy isn't it? Classes getting multiple reworks

[@Thegamerslounge33]

Consecration is considered a damage over time effect, and maybe divine hammer as well if they code it that way lol

[@TheHalbhas]

need a video on herald of the sun with new talents and perm wings build

[@That_kind_of_orc]

I just want blizz to give us sunwalker armor because there is nothing like that in the game sunwalkers are so underdeveloped compared to most of the paladin races

[@MarcelianOnline]

Although not a fan of Sunwalkers, I would be super open to them if developed better!

[@dr.zoidberg8666]

I agree. With the current mogs available it's very difficult to get a sunwalker right. You either lean heavy into tauren theme & your armor isn't nearly heavy enough or you lean into heavy armor & don't get any Tauren cultural theme. Right now I go the second route -- Tauren pallies do look good with a mix of the LFR Nathria & Mythic Uldir sets + the helm from DF time rifts at least. & this expansion would be the perfect time to give Sunwalker love. Not only are we getting sun-themed hero talents, but which race is more suited to respond to the cries of the Earthmother than the Tauren?

[@That_kind_of_orc]

I'm just using red horde themed plate on my sunwalker and it's good with back totems and totem weapon but something is missing haha​@@dr.zoidberg8666

[@monkeyjames9285]

Miss having exorcism like did beginning of dragon flight I made build entirely made counter rouge exorcism was meant hit out stealth if not got cloak up. Hope bring back like ability like that

[@markuslc1888]

not sure about the new divine hammer? 🤔 i hate uptime breath abilities 😔

[@rybr3ad]

Hammer

[@gentle_singularity]

I think both Hero trees look very good but for sure they need to tweak the visuals. Like someone else mentioned, how in the world did they miss the chance to change wings into fire wings for herald of the sun? These are like obvious things they can do to add different visuals.

[@dark9nine]

I always wanted versatility to be a pvp ONLY stat like resilience. Resilience was awesome for pvp. It makes sense.

[@LordHypnos4]

The problem with that is it becomes a barrier to entry for pvp. Say you're a casual who decides the want to PVP for the first time this xpac and you run a battleground running into someone who only pvps with 50% vers. You will never be able to kill them no matter how hard you try and they will farm you. Doesn't feel good. That's why they got rid of resilience in the first place and why vers is a universal start. Its also a star that gives value to specs that don't scale well with other stats.

[@dark9nine]

@@LordHypnos4You can get honor geared in like no time. If that makes people don't want to play it, its not about the gear. They really don't want to. Everyone knows youll get destroyed without gear in mmo's.

[@LordHypnos4]

@@dark9nine I'm just telling you what already happened. They used to have res and removed it for that reason

[@leaverpool8059]

I so wish the paladin class designer to be added some workload, warrior/ hunter need some love in terms of class design.

[@alancode2147]

Agree with hunter. Warrior is getting some changes, hunter is getting left out in the cold, especially survival. Still using DF beta level talents with tons of 2 point % damage only increase talents.

[@buddybarlow9604]

Hunter for sure and i don't even play hunter

[@alancode2147]

@@buddybarlow9604 Me either. I wanted to, but their talents were so bad going in to DF and now they're staying the same for TWW. It's absolutely shocking that a triple A studio would just abandon a key component of their game. Imagine mortal kombat making Mk2 or Mk3 but not updating the graphics or abilities of 1 character lol.

[@tony9099]

Wow cool, only time blizzard pays attention to frost dk is only to take its BoS play style over to ret

[@psychozar7223]

Yall had your time in cata

[@Kai-10-]

Boom

[@Erik1495]

howe is templar strikes now with war within?

[@Vandrin_Steele]

With blessing of An'she I would say the Eternal Flame change is pretty awesome. Sure, the healing may not be the same as Dragonflight, but if it's giving us Hammer of wrath procs for 200% dmg. Casting it on at least one target at all times may be worth it.

[@Blood_Ronin]

As a DK main, I am so jealous. Haste doesn't scale dots, Crit for Frost is such a weird stat since it has awkward scaling with obliterates. Not to mention the mess that is frost in general, and the talents for all trees overall :'(

[@buddybarlow9604]

Does anyone know what the golden ring around the paladin is?

[@Saltrocity]

need a link to that transmog!

[@JamesStreetStation]

When Blizzard gives you new powers it's usually to make up for those they took away previously. Personally I like my Ret Pally just the way he is.

[@Thegamerslounge33]

What if eternal flame replaced fv/ds for ret for something with same dmg/leaves a dot instead I think that could be cool

[@mattcyr2109]

Herald of the Sun sounds cooler to me because I love Taurens, and Tauren Sunwalkers revere An'she the sun, and I think thats badass as all hell, and the word of glory buff IMO is actually really useful for all but he most selfish of gameplay, spot healing yourself, or others is Paladin fantasy 100% As well as super useful in pvp!

[@syxqid3818]

Are all hero talents for all speccs testable or are they still miss enhancement? I like the comeback from eternal flame but why not in a tree who shares holy and prot? 😂

[@talisredstar1543]

Divine hammer I think will be your high keys way to go for AOE. big pulls ever 2 minutes, Pop wings with it and go ham. In Mplus you don't take the talent that forces you to build extra holy power for your spenders, because you want to get damage out as much as possible. You take that talent for bosses, because you know the fight is going to last a while, so you have the time to build that extra holy power. You just don't in Mythic Plus. I also think you could combine Divine Hammer with Crusade and just have this huge 2 min build, because, Divine hammer recharges your builders faster, Crusade builds up alot of haste as you use it and this just says to me that every two minutes you are looking to go huge. I hate that Might is being nerfed to 2 minutes, but in Dragonflight as it is a 1 minute cd, Crusade has just been a no go. why wait for 2 minutes, when you can get 2 wings out in that time. But I also see why they nerfed Avengering Wrath to the 2 minutes. By doing this this allows for the option to go back and forth. Also with Divine Hammer recharging your builder's faster, and you combine the haste from Crusade. I think at least in theory you could build Retribution as a Crit/Mastery, versatility spec, leaving haste as your dump stat. This takes us back to the old days of the 2 minute boom Ret. which i'm conflicted about, because the 2min builds has always left Rets with a poor consistent damage profile. Especially compare to Warrior, or unholy dk. But this might be the price we have to pay to get away from Versatility stacking as we have been since the rework in Dragonflight. Yes, Vers and divine Plates talent has made us incredibly tanky, but also it staggnated our damage. I mean they had to aura buff a total of 12 percent just so we didn't fall behind other classes in season 2 and 3. 12 percent. that is alot of damage they had to give us, because versatility does not scale. Personally, I'm looking to go Haste/Crit=Mastery, and dump versatility. To see how this feels, and then I"ll check out the sims.

[@talisredstar1543]

With Crusading strikes you are going to over cap holy power. Unless you hold off for it, or weave between it so that it generates yours last holy power your just going to lose a holy power to over capping. But I think i'm going back to Templar strikes because of this, because with Templar strikes you take Holy Blade that lets blade of Justice build 2 holy power instead of just 1. So all you have to do with Wave of ashes is one Blade of Justice. You then instantly have full power to spend on Hammer of Light. Between judgments, Empyrean hammers and Divine toll getting to 5 isn't going to be that hard. Even now with enough haste you don't spam Templar Strikes like you use to have to spam Crusader's Strike. The haste right now with procs just keeps reseting Blade of justice on a regular bases. Sure at the start of the xpac we might have to spam a bit more, but you know as the ilvl goes up that haste goes up, and then we are right back to hardly ever touching TS.

[@Maximo-Maximus]

Im quite sure there are many more classes that need reworks more than ret

[@NeverAware]

Man i love being able to crit offheal with word of glory 😢

[@thegamemattster]

Templar is Giga Strong. Of all the things I’ve tested on Alpha it is TRUCKING bosses. These are some MASSIVE Execution sentences lol.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

i'll be doing Hero Talents for Class Fantasy, rather than conforming to the Meta.

[@jmbrady1]

I have a problem with designing encounters based on what players have, why can't they just make the encounters without considering such things, would probably make the fights more fun then and if you say that if they don't consider such things then some classes will be excluded, then consider this, why does everything need to be optimized?

[@SDRaygon]

To me it sounds like Herold of the sun users will go Crit/Mastery

[@benjamanavagliano6264]

where is Marcelian?

[@MarcelianOnline]

Editing the fck out of this :)

[@YTLGames]

Disabled wheelchair class needs more help 😂😂

[@rodneyhorsley8601]

Poor Hunters and Shamans never get any kind of respect

[@andrewthomas817]

When will brewmaster get a rework. We have to many buttons

[@Ditronus.]

The lack of visual on the key node Templar is built around is highly disappointing. So much for class fantasy. Spell/ability animations are a big reason why this game looks dated. Also not excited that herald of the sun is just a rehashed holy prism, which is a spell that needed a new visual a long time ago. Add something to it as it just looks like gold yarn at this point.

[@MrM4DD0gg]

another patch another ret re-work......if only warriors had a decent re-work instead of the shambles that is slayer

[@Erik1495]

i wish instead of hammers it was just light, so it fits thematically with the rest of the races and types of templar, or just because it looks better honestly hopefully theyll add glyphs to it

[@ukaszfrankowski9146]

Why Templar couldn't be a dps with one hand and shield? Like D3 Crusader. Why Blizz? I would play like crazy

[@alancode2147]

45 seconds in and I can tell you already haven't paid a bit of attention to survival hunters (like the devs) because none of what you just said is true. They shoehorned botth hero talents into coordinated assault and said, welp, our job here is done.

[@ShaolinPotato]

For the love of god why the hell is the auto attack talent so busted. Crusading Strikes not only gives consistent holy power but it just flat out hits like 80% harder than Templar/CS. Auto attack talents are so damn lame and its double lame when you have to play that talent otherwise youre actually trolling. Idk, i just hate it. Vanguard of Justice is a wonky ass talent too, in all honesty it should do what it does now BUT you could hold 6 holy power. Playing with VoJ is wonky as hell and just feels jank. I mean look at pretty much any other class that has a "Spenders cost X more" talent and youll see somewhere in their tree is the ability to add resource cap amd in the case of rogues, just flat out doubling emergy for them. As for Eternal Flame, we are one of the few specs in the game that has a very clear line when it comes to our resources. Passive healing and defensive bloat are a big problem but that's the thing, we have to actively choose to destroy our damage to cast WoG. Why are they killing the hybrid part of the hybrid classes? If you actively choose to use your heal button on someone instead of doing damage, it should heal for a decent amount. The utility and support options that ret brings are really good, don't take that away. A Ret SHOULD be able to notice someone dying and be able to make the active choice to sacrifice their damage to save that person. If i wog a rogue and his health doesn't jump by 40% or more then why even give ret heals

[@KINGhotaru11]

I wanna see bm dark ranger

[@MarcelianOnline]

Likely coming sooner, was waiting for some rework announcement but seems like nothing is planned

[@Roachehh]

Can i just say hybrid healing is actual dogshit in PvP. In any kind of match a lock/warrior/mage etc will have more healing by FAR than my ret or druid

[@MattyBeastial]

PVPers care about Eternal Flame my guy. The entire game isn't just PVE fyi.

[@gh0stface1981]

Next brain dead specc

[@cbriangilbert1978]

sounds like they made an unholy pally lol

[@MarcelianOnline]

How so? Definitely did not feel like Unholy :P

[@cbriangilbert1978]

@@MarcelianOnline I just leveled a unholy dk for the first time recently. A lot of the effects you went over, although named differently, have a similar effect to it. The pally drops a circle of light the DK drops a circle of death. The Pally reaches out and the hammer splits to hit multiple, the death coil does the same. etc etc etc They are literally polar opposites imo

[@CS-vl2tl]

Better more accessible wheelchair

[@MarcelianOnline]

8 seconds 130% movespeed Charger agrees!

[@dark9nine]

Frost dks NEED a rework but a COMPLETE and TOTAL rework that shit is boring AF

[@dtbfit2836]

Templar’s major problem for me is its class fantasy. Nothing unique or exciting was achieved here. More Hammers? Why? How on Earth does Wake of Ashes augment into Hammer of Light? Logically, that makes no sense! I would have loved for a Sword themed hero spec at the least! But this would have been a really cool opportunity to augment Divine Steed in new ways. Could have been a dash or even a direct charge! Could we have seen the skybreaker leap here? Maybe. What about a shield and 2 hander? Would have been epic. Overall I will be rolling Herald of the Sun. Templar is a massive miss in the class fantasy department!

[@dtbfit2836]

Templar needs to be Sword themed not Hammer themed!

[@MihoNightwalker]

Weird take on eternal flame. Ret is a support class.

[@dustson]

breath of syndragosa was never a good spell. frost dks have to deal with this since legion. it was new and exciting in legion but should have replaced with something better. that alone puts me off in wanting to play ret in the next expansion. make it a strong 1 min cd that lasts for 10 seconds and does good aoe dmg. then it fits into the paladin. why taking a bad and very dated design who almost no dk likes and put it into red.

[@christmasham4312]

Warrior needs rework

[@Skorpi76]

IMHO This is stupid, reason i play ret is because its easy compared to other classes. id rather them make everyone easier to play rather then add more complexity...

[@MarcelianOnline]

It's still likely the easiest spec in the game, and complexity happens if you end up playing Divine Hammer, imho

[@nickstover7888]

Ret still feels so boring, all the builders feel meaningless to push only to add up to your spender and even that sometimes doesn’t feel impactful, sure is flashy to look at though

[@colocode6979]

called it the second they announced it, hero talents will be a shit show and unbalanced like the rest of the game already is. some classes still need help in the current talent trees but HeRo TaLeNtS -_-