Arcade Buttons 101

[@N1c2k3]

Thanks Casey. Awesome info! Looking forward to the rest of the series. Earned a subscription.

[@RetroactivearcadeCa]

Awesome, thank you! We're adding more and more content to our service all the time so be sure to check it out!

[@wigang]

Your videos are great. Very clear and helpful.

[@h.m.5724]

Never listen to someone who confuses Japanese and Chinese when talking about technology

[@MiyamotoMusashi9]

Great point, but his intention is ok

[@eswift8318]

I believe one company is Japanese, and one Chinese. He mentioned them by name. I wasn't focused on the names but one sounded Japanese and one Chinese.

[@cbaxter6527]

LEDs don't dies but are murdered by over-voltage or too much current (max 20-30mA) burning out the diode junction. Each LED colour has differing forward bias voltages due the semi-conductor mix (1.4V thru 3.5V). Physics of electron valence level gap and returning to a lower state releases a photon of a specific energy (colour), like fireworks that burning different compounds give off different coloured light. If you look inside the button cap, there will be two SMD LEDs and one resistor on a circuit board. 12V & 5V will use similar LEDs but the resistor will differ to accommodate the voltage difference.

[@NinjaRed5000]

Interesting video. I do have a strong preference to western buttons mostly because I like the concave plunger, but I also respect Japanese buttons. Recently they released concave plungers for Sanwa buttons; replace the microswitch with a switch from Seimitsu along with the concave plungers and you get the best of both worlds. I had to admit I can't say I'm too big a fan of cherry switches on buttons, a little too tense if you ask me. Groovygamegear used to sell microleaf switches that were fantastic but sadly they seem to be discontinued.

[@RetroactivearcadeCa]

You should take a look at our new Hybrid buttons called Fusion buttons. retroactivearcade.ca/collections/concave

[@NinjaRed5000]

@@RetroactivearcadeCaInteresting. Can you swap out the microswitches?

[@SumeaBizarro]

@@NinjaRed5000 The fusion buttons most likely use a japanese style switch, (not a microswitch just a switch or mechanical button mechanism if you want to go with that) - but seems to be unique to the fusion buttons, pictures of the product are not good enough to make guesses. If you want a microswitch button, but tweak it's properties one is to remove the springs, microswitches unless you go to extremely light ones like 15g honeywells are strong enough alone. Other is to look into Omron made ones. They have a variety of activation strengths that also help the button feel right, but with less force. Hardcore rhythm gamers tweak this a lot since games like beatmania IIDX or Sound Voltex use big sanwa buttons that are like american buttons, long, spring, microswitch, but for ease of very rapid rhythm gaming even game centers (or ; Japanese Arcades) tweak the hardware to have 50g or 25g omron switches and ligher spring, or no spring. I myself last time I owned one used 50g omrons without a spring and those were easy enough for me to use. 15g honeywell was actually nice to use, but the quality was so low that even a single person use of a controller caused fuzzy inputs before even a full year of owning my first controller. TL;DR: No, likely, if you want to go for microswitch buttons and look into omron switches. Panasonic was apparently another but their best is not even available anymore making Omron the only Japanese, and high quality option with granular choices for your activation strength.

[@cbaxter6527]

All switches are on/off or 1 bit digital. If analog like a game pad trigger then a variable resistor (Pot, strain gauge), capacitor (capacitive touch), inductor or magnetic field (halls effect) needs to be used. In this case a micro-controller and maybe an ADC/DAC maybe required to output a numeric value or voltage level or current level. Arcade buttons use simple switches and are cheap to employ, with original leaf switches in the 70's & 80's Arcade/Pinball machines being cheaper than cheap. Micro-switches are modified toggle switches that use spring assisted snap contacts (clicky) to reduce destructive arcing of contacts. Micro-switches were originally used in industry and the smaller all-in-one buttons use a mechanical keyboard style switch (low current).

[@liamconverse8950]

Is there really a big difference between micro switches and rubber membrane switches

[@SumeaBizarro]

@@liamconverse8950 Yes: Microswitches are like mechanical keyboard switches, rated for a lot more cycles than a rubber silicone pad is. Rubber membrane is usually much easier (less force in grams) to activate than the most usual 100g (and maybe spring on top) of a microswitch. Japanese style switches are very "like rubber membrane" in ease of use but use mechanical, metal and hard plastic parts with combination of spring to be a much more longer lasting button that can also be serviced, if button goes bad and you do not have time to really clean and furbish the switch internally you just swap the switch itself and the cabinet still uses same plastics on the outside. Some, very strong rubber membranes like ones in NES controllers are somewhat microswitch like in resistive until "release" type of activation feel but microswitches have it extremely strong.

[@cbaxter6527]

@@liamconverse8950 The Sanwa/Seimitsu buttons are mechanical keyboard switches like an internal leaf switch or dome and not today's cheap membrane or rubber carbon switch used in remotes and $10 keyboards. Like an expensive Cherry switch keyboard $1-3 a switch and not 1/10 of a cent.

[@cbaxter6527]

@@liamconverse8950 30-40g Japanese arcade buttons can do finger swipes on buttons to do a rapid double hit activation with a 1-2mm switch depression.

[@liamconverse8950]

@@cbaxter6527 I was wondering about that because nowadays when people emulate arcade games a lot of people say you have to use a turbo or autofire feature for a lot of them but I know that there is people who beat these games in the arcade without that so I wonder if maybe some of the buttons were just easier to press to achieve that high rate of fire

[@StudentTrader]

Sweet! Very detailed thanks

[@CodiMorphett]

I'm interested in seeing if these are viable for a DIY music device

[@abm10399]

Ok - I have a custom arcade cabinet and some buttons are giving me problems now 5 years later - from what I understand the fusions are better than IL for lifespan?

[@RetroactivearcadeCa]

@abm10399 from what we have seen from the Fusion buttons we have changed exclusively to use them over ebay other brand. By far they seem to outlast any other button on the market other than the specialty Sanwa buttons that are used for competition play.

[@abm10399]

@@RetroactivearcadeCa thx for the response I will def get them. Really appreciate this video… it was super helpful. I feel like those springs inside my IL are a little flimsy so I like to idea of getting away from those. And learn about that button wrench today - it’s now on order

[@R3LAPS3productions]

I'm curious what type of microswitches are in gold leaf buttons? I tried to do some research on gold leaf buttons but couldn't discover any info about that specific button that was a solid answer.

[@andrewjameslyon]

There is no microswitch in the goldleaf button - there is a LEAF SWITCH inside the button housing. A leaf switch is simply 2 metal contacts that complete the circuit when you press the button. They take less force to activate, the current flow is immediate, and they don't have the "clicky" sound that microswitch buttons are known for. Leaf switches are often used in virtual pinball cabinets, especially for flipper buttons.

[@R3LAPS3productions]

@@andrewjameslyon Thanks I finally figured out how leaf switches opporate. I did discover they are mainly used for pinball machines although I'm not using leaf buttons for pinball. At this point I'm not sure if I like leas and am considering trying something with a micro switch like some IL buttons or happ.

[@rainmaker6482]

Goodjob

[@WintermintP]

Hi Casey, I noticed that in your video you were talking about response times in contexts of games, but what would happen if I were to, say, try to use these buttons for something that's *not* a game? I know Buckethead used to have his own signature guitar where he had two Sanwa buttons in his guitar and both of them were basically momentary buttons where, because engaging it would kill the signal, he would often create a stutter effect manually by repeatedly pressing the button and thus using the button in tandem with the guitar's signal to come up with crazier-than-normal shreds on his guitar. Is the Sanwa really that helpful for something like *that*, or is it more of an old-school situation where you don't really notice the difference?

[@RetroactivearcadeCa]

The Sanwa buttons are a higher quality momentary pushbutton because they are a digital connection. They have a better response rate with no moving parts other than the plunger touching the pcb. This will work a lot better for what you are thinking and they are allow a lot more shallow than traditional push buttons so they will fit in a smaller housing.

[@WintermintP]

@@RetroactivearcadeCa O.Ob Thank you.

[@SumeaBizarro]

@@RetroactivearcadeCa There is no PCB. There is moving parts. Sanwa button is a ball bearing, spring, two contacts (those contacts extend outside where you connect the button from) and plunger. When pressed metal bearing touches contacts, when released shape of the plastics inside and plunger raise the ball bearing up and away from the contacts. Zero PCB, just something similar to leaf switch with crazy japanese engineering. And it is not me saying that. A mechanical keyboard fan "Chryosan" on youtube who has switches dating back to 50's and 60's listed Japanese style switch used in some Japanese keyboards that is also the type of switch used in sanwas as "one of the most baffling and crazy switch mechanisms I have seen, what the heck is even going on here?" But; still. Contacts, bearing, spring (Spring is shaped like a horn), cleverly shaped housing in plastics for everything. Works. spring works both for the benefit of the mechanism and what springs do best. Likely very similar to leaf switches not available anymore. Also likely reason they are used in those hybrid buttons to have old feeling buttons with closer to pre-microswitch only world of western buttons.

[@cbaxter6527]

If you keep popping LEDs you need to drop the voltage source or increase the in series resistance to drop the current flow thru the LED to safely below max current limit. It would be a situation that they are running the LEDs "HOT", close to max current and max brightness. Say LED drops 2.2V + resistor drops 9.8V = 12V, so 9.8/0.030 = 327Ω or 330Ω then if 13.5V (unregulated) (13.5-2.2)/330 = 34.2mA and uh-oh! smell something funny. You need more resistance to drop the max current. Add a 100Ω 5W ceramic resistor to the common grounds of the LEDs (13.5-2.2)/(330+100) = 26.3mA, Power = VI = I²R = (0.0263)²(100) = 0.069W or 70+ LEDs. If you have different LED colours then the forward bias voltage could differ requiring each colour to be on separate circuits. Lower voltage LED will conduct first changing the brightness.

[@fatheronfire1979]

I have a question what brand is spring loaded?

[@SumeaBizarro]

There is no PCB . PCB does not explain a mechanism of a switch a PCB inside the button does nothing and would do nothing. It would been more apt to compare sanwa switches to "switches somewhat like mechanical keyboards" - It would not been entirely correct either but it is in same ball park away from microswitch actuated buttons. What is ACTUALLY inside Sanwa style switch for their buttons is two contacts, a ball bearing and a spring. When pressed the ball bearing goes down a plastic ledge against two contact points. The spring ... more or less according to scholars; SOMEHOW also keeps the ball bearing UP until pressed again, this is because of a notch in the plunger that keeps the ball bearing with the slightly horn shaped spring in right neutral position when not pressed. But no button, NO BUTTON "has just a PCB" inside, PCB is where you attach switches to not what a switch mechanism comprises for. Even a magnetically activated button would have a mechanism of magnets or such and not "a PCB inside". TL;DR: Japanese buttons, as far as I know both Seimitsu and Sanwa have: Two internal contacts (same ones you see outside actually), a ball bearing, a spring, and clever stuff with housing. They are actually rather easy to take apart, clean up and thus "refurbish" rather than replace entirely every time. The mechanism is clever, simple and gives a feel of a "gaming keyboard" for lack of better comparison, they are rather linear and react fast to inputs. Japanese rhythm games actually have more american like setup with microswitches. VERY similar to 20 dollar sanwa buttonws without a switch. And goes without saying: if you are building a japanese style cabinet you will use japanese parts. Japan uses these sanwa and seimitsu parts in their cabinets and since Japan still has an arcade market, those buttons and sticks are around in those cabinets. Both retro and new machines use them and are still in use widely in japan. And, the superiority of those parts especially for playing shmups without turbo is unparalled, you cannot two finger drum a microswitch button like a sanwa or seimitsu. Maybe if you use a 15 or 20g microswitch without a spring, maybe. But, I cannot claim your knowledge of special and less special western arcade parts is not on point. Funny enough that same stuff applies to Japanese sanwa buttons used in rhythm games and such, they are very similar just the outside shape is different and microswitch line used is Omron as it is in the Japanese sticks.

[@doc.cynical8852]

for the generic blue micro switch since its my only option for arcade buttons where do i attach the black wire is it below or is it the one thats in the middle?

[@RetroactivearcadeCa]

Your black wire (Ground) attaches to the bottom connector that has a 90 degree bend in it. The middle button is where you connect your action (Live) wire.

[@OnafetsEnovap]

Has anyone here had any experience with non-round buttons? I know Sanwa Denshi make square and triangular ones and I'm curious to know how they fare, as I'm thinking of putting them into my next fightstick as main buttons.

[@SumeaBizarro]

The small ones likely use same switch used in the round OBSF buttons; and if you are indeed a madlad I can respect, they should be the same. The bigger ones used in beatmania and such use a microswitch and are extremely similar and same to american buttons with microswitches presented here. If you actually want to build a fighting game controller with beatmania OBSA-45UK buttons, I respect you, a stranger as much as my own mother and would also implore you to look into lightest spring possible, or removing springs entirely, and go with Omron microswitches either VX-01-1A3 for 50g actuation force, down from standard 100g, still having tactile and audible click, or D2MV-01-1C2 for absolutely light 25g force but also tactile feel from the switch according to some all but gone.

[@OnafetsEnovap]

@@SumeaBizarro Thanks for the advice, and the reverence. :)

[@liamconverse8950]

I have heard people refer to Sanwa buttons as having micro switches before. But I guess that's not technically accurate?

[@SumeaBizarro]

Yes and no. The basic OBSF 30 or 20 millimeter buttons used in fight sticks, any "basic normal game" and such use a different type of switch that has a ball bearing and spring and two contacts working together with clever shapers in plastics to make a switch that is somewhat similar to linear cherry MX switches. Some japanese retro keyboards use same basic mechanism for their keys. BUT also yes as Sanwa buttons used in rhythm games, that are square, or rectangular, or big hamburger shaped round (If you seen; Beatmania IIDX; Pop'n Music, Sound voltex) use sanwa buttons that are just about same with american style microswitch buttons shown here. Same ability to insert LED's inside for controller illumination, microswitch on bottom and springs. Only difference is the microswitches used are Omron that have wider range of options and are frankly said higher quality. If you order an aftermarket controller to play these types of games at home you DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON THE MICROSWITCH. Honeywell is default from some makers and while light they wear down and become fuzzy fast. Actual arcades default to springs with 100g switches that should with heavy use become easier to play with than brand new, but other Japanese/Round 1 western venues opt to tweak the switches down to 50g or 25g omrons. If you are interested in type of button I am talking about; Search for Sanwa OBSA-45UK. If you are interested in lighter than standard 100g Omron microswitches, search for VX-01-1A3 for 50g force switch or if even lighter, 25g omron is D2MV-01-1C2. Though according to one review, Tactical and Audible feedback from the switch is all but gone at that point making VX-01-1A3 most likely best button microswitch, if you want a microswitched button for it's tactile properties.

[@liamconverse8950]

@@SumeaBizarro Okay I just meant the typical standard arcade buttons

[@MrTripcore]

Which button for pinball

[@RetroactivearcadeCa]

Any of these buttons will work but most common is the Suzo Happ

[@corbinbuesch289]

Heads up.... Ultimarc has gold leaf buttons.😅

[@RetroactivearcadeCa]

Just so you know, we have the same ones and we call them Fusion buttons. And just so everyone knows, they are from China called Crown buttons. All the same, thanks for the heads up!

[@corbinbuesch289]

@RetroactivearcadeCa good to know! Always good to have multiple hardware shops to choose from (just gonna add you guys to the list real quick😅). Forgot to say it earlier, great vid!

[@corbinbuesch289]

Oh hey... might want to clarify on website or vids that fusions are goldleaf buttons (if you don't already)... if people (like me, new to the hobby) are looking for those and don't see the term, they'll likely go to the next guy.

[@RetroactivearcadeCa]

Just because Ulltimarc brands it a certain way doesn't mean that it is a standard. You should do your homework.

[@SumeaBizarro]

@@RetroactivearcadeCa Crown is KOREAN, Does it look chinese? Trying to make a reference to Dave Chappelle joke.

[@raymonddai]

Elon musk look alike ! Great job on the video

[@aaronnix6871]

IL buttons are not identical to Happ, IL buttons have a shorter travel

[@SumeaBizarro]

If you remove the spring they technically will have the same travel. and unless you go lower than 50g microswitch, the springs can be removed.

[@torymeckley4002]

'Promosm' 😥

[@D_Seveneight]

Elon