Talking To Those There Is No Talking To

[@georgedunn320]

"The most fiercely defended values are frequently the most unstable ones." THAT is GOOD! I'm filing that with one of my other favorites, Eldridge's "Men are ready to die for ideas -- provided they're not quite clear on them."

[@dayegilharno4988]

This!

[@laurawells3935]

My Mom was a Psyche nurse. The best I’ve ever known. I think because she suffered so much in her life. I am also a nurse. I couldn’t be a psyche nurse….it was so painful. I wanted to fix those lives. I couldn’t stand that I couldn’t do that. She said to me “Sometimes it’s just two small steps”. Maybe that’s the pinnacle of their life. I couldn’t accept this. It wasn’t tangible enough. I understand now. She is a legend.

[@ggbythesea9231]

🕯 ThankFULL for Angels among Us.

[@lizcervone1307]

Your mom is a hero in my eyes, I never could work in Psych... so thankful she loved her job. I worked in long term care for many years. Thank you for sharing💞

[@despozblehero2262]

Nurses are better than doctors imho, I have been in the hospital more than my fair share. Be proud, you are both amazing

[@gussmoberg7738]

I’m a psych nurse myself, so true.

[@timdowney6721]

@@despozblehero2262 In fairness, they are different jobs, with different duties and expectations in our healthcare setup. There are good and lousy doctors and nurses. As with most groups, the differences between individuals within a group are typically greater than the differences between groups.

[@ggbythesea9231]

Twice today, You've shared what I so needed to Hear. I'm sure I'm not the only One. ThankFULL for Your Christ-centered, Inspiring WISDOM. PEACE & Blessings to You & Yours. 🕊🤲🏼

[@emmanuelbeaucage4461]

yesterday, someone told me without any irony that as he was rational, if he did something unconsciously, he would be conscious of it. i'm still mind blown...

[@emmanuelbeaucage4461]

i sure hope i'll never be that rational...

[@lcflngn]

Honestly Rev Ed, as the 59-yr old daughter of a narcissist, full of a lifetime of hurt, I think it’s important to be clear that taking care of ourselves first is important. My mother is 82 and can still be psychically damaging (no filters, seems to love saying nasty hurtful untrue things, etc). We just managed a Thanksgiving with her, but I had to warn her about our rules for respect and kindness, and she was mostly well behaved. Yes, as you mentioned, she really needs us these days, so she tries harder, but she can still be horrifically mean, and the awful things she says get into people’s heads. More importantly, I feel so damaged from a lifetime of her meanness, I’ve done my best to cut myself off emotionally. It’s been a matter of self-preservation, as most of the things she has said and done have made my life worse,not ever better. Anyway, I hope you can be even more careful in the future about prescriptions for dealing with people with this disorder. It’s tragic, but often the best thing to focus on is care for ourselves. Some people have to cut themselves off to survive, and that is really and truly ok. That said, your title reminded me (thinking you were heading down a more political rather than a psychological route) of a tweet I saw recently from one of my favorite YT’ers. She gets a lot of grief & worse due to being and talking about being transgender, yet still she’s such a loving person with hope: “I feel my arguments with everyday right wing people (not pundits/those in power), if you go long enough, end up in agreement about basic rights and bodily autonomy. It just depends how long you’re willing (or able) to try to tear down the rhetorical bullshit they’ve been taught.” My (obvs needfully short) response was “1 hr+ plane trip seated by a chatty Texas rancher. Scratched the surface re “spoiled” athletes and masks/vaccines. Laughed about 3 things we agree on. Not a “bad” person, needs to meet more people, have more conversations…” So, while I know I can’t ever really have a truly honest or comfortable relationship with my mother, and can’t even be around her for more than an hour or two, if I chatted with this guy on a 10-hour plane ride I’m 100% sure we would have a. Had fun and b. found a lot more common ground. He was actually funny and delightful, and I feel pretty sure we’d have understood each other a whole lot better in the end. I hope he feels the same. Sorry to go on, but I suspect it would be good to focus less on people who are a clear danger to us, and more on folks we may have a vague opinion about, but who haven’t had a chance to be exposed to us or our ideas, and might actually be fun to chat with.

[@revedtrevors4961]

Thank you for sharing these valuable words

[@screechingwind114]

God Bless you with more Love, Patience and Humor , Strength.

[@woodspiritstudio]

Our mothers must be related. I feel for ya sister!!! And I agree with you.... when I find myself confronted with protentional nastiness ... I start by telling them that I respect their choices... reassure them that I do support their right to think or feel whatever they choose.... and then add "That is all I expect in return. Agree to disagree." It's sometimes productive when a normal dialog begins... they voice what they don't like...and do like.... and I do the same... and there has been plenty of times they've said, "Wow... I didn't know that!" Bummer it can't always go that way.... but I choose to be happy about the few successes rather than dwell on miserable people.

[@lcflngn]

@@screechingwind114 All of those things are needed, and it’s well to be reminded, thank you!

[@lcflngn]

@@woodspiritstudio omg, that’s so exactly right, thx so much!

[@artistnumber12]

Greetings. Beau sent me.

[@morrispet]

We really like this fellow He's an Anglican pastor in Scotland and does great videos Here, he describes engaging with (e.g., right-wing relatives) as if they have narcissistic personality disorder My comment to this video: WONDERFUL description of "narcissistic defenses" And of Heinz Kohut's theory and approach I'm a 63-year-old psychiatrist trained (I am so grateful) at the Menninger Clinic and SO appreciate what you say here and the SPIRIT that you describe for us to use when we approach these people in our lives 👊🏽🙏🏽 Your explanation is clear and accessible and conveys a sense of gentleness. . . of NON-EXPECTATION (that has been so HARD for me to "practice" despite all I "preach" and SINCERELY believe!) I STRUGGLE with (1) thinking I SHOULD "fix" these people (you know . . . with all my fantastic KNOWLEDGE and amazing psychotherapeutic SKILLS?🙄) . . . . . . and (2) that I AM ABLE to "fix" them and gently MAKE them see the incredible WISDOM of my views 🤦🏻‍♂️ Spoiler alert: 1. I DON'T have that responsibility 2. I DON'T have that power They typically haven't ASKED me to fix them and, even if they DO, that's NOT. MY. JOB. And, I'm Powerless in this respect: CANNOT control anyone else's thoughts / feelings / behaviors (🔔 Step 1 of the Twelve Steps) Instead, I'm learning (thank the Lord!) to "care" about people in a different way I'm learning to LISTEN better (as you described so eloquently) to seek to UNDERSTAND rather than to convince AND I'm learning 🙌🏽🙌🏽 when to LET GO . . . to STOP TRYYYYYYING (and driving myself and the other person F*KG INSANE 🤣) Thank you for this and OTHER great videos We are subscribers and will be supporters Keep doing the Good Work 🙏🏽

[@kicsms_science3729]

I was recently listening to a podcast with researchers who were studying conspiracy theorists & how to help people you love get out of QAnon (or some similar). Their conclusions & recommendations were remarkably similar to yours - listening with curiosity, asking questions, planting seeds, and expecting it to take a long time. “No I-told-you-sos” is especially powerful!

[@frankcostello2973]

your advice is appreciate and I pray

[@tloof2370]

I recently learned of this exact technique of breaking through barriers. It is good to hear it twice. Thank you for your calming words and insight. I pray to know the difference and have the patience, but also to strengthen boundaries.

[@jennifergridley8111]

I don't engage in politics with my husband's family. We disagree is putting it mildly. So I will leave the room if the subject is raised. I love my husband more than anything, for him I will keep my mouth shut and remove myself from the situation. It took me a while to get to the point of realizing it isn't worth it to have such strife. I love them and I love my husband. I would rather have my husband happy, so for him I will do it. Sometimes, some members make it difficult, I remind myself they're God's child, same as me. It definitely helps 😉❤️

[@Stew8artb4]

You’re a TRUE minister Ed, thank you~~ So sad that your voice isn’t more known. I will share with friends and family, but I wonder if they will take time to listen to you.

[@taloar1]

You are absolutely right about becoming essential to the narcissist. You get into their cracks… they think they are exploiting you…. And maybe they are…. But. You get in their cracks where they think about how they actually see themselves..

[@dawnjohnson8739]

Thank you!

[@NotABushFan1]

How many die-hard thoughts will change over time? Even some of my die-hard thoughts have changed over the 80 years.

[@yarnpower]

Thank you for these words. I needed to hear them years ago as I argued with a few very racist siblings. They will come in handy today as I try to bring a nephew out of the dark woods of conspiracy theories.

[@edwardkenny2356]

Thank you, Rev Ed. Good words.

[@tassey]

Kwe, Thanks for the reflection. You have to know that it may not work and you would be lucky to save even one person this way. But that may be one person. Nmultis.

[@margies2880]

I agree that taking a genuine interest in what others say can make a difference at times, although it can be pretty challenging when my views are repeatedly dismissed or attacked. I have read it helps to not get sucked into the person's drama, acknowledge what they say, but stay on the subject at hand. It does help, but not easy when the whirlwind comes. I think the ability for the narcissist (or person with some of the traits) to genuinely change depends on their willingness to do so. A relative of mine was a strong narcissist, and had his own reality at times. Perhaps showing how certain actions would have benefited him helped the situation at hand sometimes, but he never changed, even with therapy. I have had to be bold enough with some people to show I won't be bullied, but I will be tested from time to time. As a super shy person, it seems I've had to become firm enough to let some people know that my boundaries stand. At the same time, I pay the price if I allow my buttons to be pushed, become defensive and react .

[@Birdyblue12]

Yes

[@michaelbindner9883]

One must be gentle with one's parents in their dotage, according to Scripture. Sometimes, you simply keep your own counsel. My brother never came out to my father, nor did any of us out him. When he came out to my mother, she was devastated at first, but she came around and accepted his husband as a son. They took her (back) to Paris before she died. It was some of the best days of her life.

[@Tsalagi978]

Wow🤯 Are you listening on my phone? That literally happened today at my parent's house on Thanksgiving day. My brother, who literally hates me, was badgering Jews and Trans people. My mother got her DNA test results back and she showed more Jewish than I thought she would. Him and my father didn't like it. I left and came home. They're Trumpsters. Literally. I'm middle of the road.

[@screechingwind114]

God Bless You.

[@cheriann6461]

With nothing short of deep fondness and absolute respect, I sugggest that this is not great advice for dealing with REAL narcissists. People who suffer from this personality disorder -- not those who are JUST self-absorbed, selfish or have some narcissistic traits -- are incredibly dangerous. Yes, they are deeply wounded. Yes, they themselves have often been abused...but ONLY professionals are capable of dealing with them. They are nothing short of abusive to anyone else, even if the abuse isn't obvious, at first (the early stages of cruelty and manipulation are quite inconspicuous). The Cluster B personality disorders are no joke. These people intentionally harm anyone they may, in a variety of ways. Love such people, but at a distance. Love yourself enough to walk away when its time, without any guilt (they are masters of making others feel guilty, for their offenses). Do not subject yourself to abuse, under some misguided notion of helping or saving them. Let professionals do that, IF THEY THEMSELVES decide to seek help.

[@Bob20011492]

Thank you - appropriate for this day, Thanksgiving Day 2022 - for this gentle statement of hope and love. I'm reminded of what the Apostle Peter wrote in 1 Peter 3:15-16, "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander." Not exactly relevant, but the tone you describe is very much echoed in this passage. May you and your family, and your parish, have a blessed week. Thank you once again. Amen

[@nisawallace5903]

I don't think they are ashamed of their slander.

[@elenafetter9690]

This is really insightful. Thank you!💜 It takes a lot of self control and self awareness to accomplish this. What a genuinely good and interesting person you are!

[@auntiebobbolink]

It takes self - honesty and humility. It also takes a person who has been accepted and loved enough to be secure in their own worth. So the more you can show acceptance of others, the more people we're likely to have with those qualities of healing.

[@contrafax]

Thank you Reverend.

[@deirdrevergados971]

In our family we mostly avoided conflcts by just smiling and glossing over extreme views of any kind as not being "suitable table conversation". And fleeing to different rooms when the meal was over.

[@deborahdawkins4394]

Words I needed to hear. Thank you.

[@e.458]

For prejudice against certain groups, exposure can be a very potent cure. Xenophobes meeting people from the communities they hate, homophobes meeting openly gay people, etc. Often they quickly find out that the "enemy" is as human as thex are.

[@love_person]

I am another one who needed to hear this. It gave me the strength to keep going...to not give up. I was ready to. It's been a hard week..... turned on the computer to zoom.....missed zoom to meditate on this.....

[@CitizenPlane]

I enjoy watching your videos, and I appreciate the community you are building here on KZbin. I think this is great advice for dealing with family members who are in a cult (like the Trump cult), or who have otherwise slipped into an antisocial worldview, especially if they are someone you already have an established relationship with. As a note of caution, you have a large audience, and are widely trusted, and it's very important that when you give people advice that you are careful that this advice will not harm them. What you are advising in this video, and in others on this topic, is that people become everything a narcissist needs in order to fix them. This is described as "narcissistic supply" in modern lingo. This is very dangerous advice, because relationships with narcissists are usually marred by patterns of abuse. If we're talking about people who only have exaggerated feelings of self-importance, and excessive need for admiration, that's one thing. But narcissism is usually also characterized by manipulative, exploitative behavior, and an unwillingness to empathize with others. These people are mentally and emotionally abusive. They are dangerous to the people around them, and especially to those closest to them. I fear that when you encourage your audience to approach narcissists in this way, they are hearing that they are supposed to connect with, and build intimate relationships with abusers in order to change them. I would encourage you to listen to some modern experts on narcissism. I recommend Dr. Ramani's channel on narcissism, here on KZbin for more information.

[@cheriann6461]

Dr. Ramni has helped me a great deal. I share your concern regarding this advice. My mother is a narcissist. What I lived was nothing short of child abuse. It has taken a long time and lots of input from professionals to realize and acknowledge how abusive she truly was (and would still be, if I allowed her to be). The damage she has (intentionally) done to my sense of self and sense of security is truly indescribable. I don't think that the Reverend, or most people truly understand how dangerous true Narcissists are. Perhaps we can help to educate folks, further. Only true professionals should bother. The harm that anyone with a cluster B personality disorders can do the the average person is too great to be risked.

[@CitizenPlane]

@@cheriann6461 Thank you for sharing your story. I'm glad that you have been able to get the support you need to build healthy boundaries with your mother. I also have had personal experiences with narcissists, and I have seen the pattern of behavior in domestic abusers in my previous work. It is important to me that we prioritize breaking these patterns of exploitation by protecting victims, and by teaching people how to protect themselves. I believe narcissists will stop behaving the way they do when it stops getting them what they want. But that has to be a community-wide effort, not an individual one.

[@thomasmcfarland5019]

We are called to be witnesses, not to be Victor's or conquers. We are witnesses to God's healing love, not to any angry smiting of the ungodly.

[@stefanstefaninsweden2060]

This video moved me back to the eighties and nineties. My mother passed away in the mid nineties and there were quite a few things I would have liked to approach her with but never got a chance. Would have liked to be able to have a discussion completely different than those we had. She was very hard to talk to if her thoughts were completely different from mine. I've never had any problem to both talk to and response to others. Like to see things from their point of view, see if it is anything I can pick up or something of my thoughts that I can leave with them. There is much to learn from others and so much they can learn from me if we take care of each other, take an interest in others. With my mother it was nearly impossible to do that, because if we touched a subject or a view she didn't like, then she closed up completely. Could turn completely silent for a fortnight. When that happend there was no use what I would say that could "unlock" the situation again. It was only unlocked when she wanted it to. I managed to live through those periods, the one who sufferd most was my father. I saw how bad he felt, and this made me invest a lot of time in him, carrying him through these times. This is an investment I don't regret for a second.

[@charleneg7787]

Sometimes the word Narcissist is overused. Your not doing that. I have a brother who is very much as you described. He matters to me, I love him and will always love him. He has disowned me over politic differences. His anger over having to wear makes was shocking… even after our sister, nephew, and his wife’s step mother died from covid. There was no logic, its hard to understand. I don’t think he’s a narcissist, but a wounded person. I know his heart under all his anger. Most people like this needs love. I send it to him in my prayers everyday and have for the last 3years. I make no attempt at contact knowing he will only emotionally hurt me, thats my boundary. Our family has been torn apart by mis information, politics, religious views and covid deaths. You have helped me understand how to use unconditional love to replace my own fear and anger about this and that has eased my pain allowing me to lay my own defensiveness aside.

[@AmyHoward13]

I have an ex-husband that is a malignant narcissist. I hope that someday someone can help him. It will not be me. He’s still abusing my adult children and my grandchildren, and I worry that one day he will just murder all of them in their sleep. I thought he was going to kill me because he stuck guns in my mouth and choked me until I passed out. If you are in this situation, leave as safely as you can. You are not the person Rev. Ed is talking to, it’s not your responsibility to try and repair someone that is representing this much of a danger to you. Get out. There are others that can safely help your narcissist.

[@MathewAlden]

Yo this is bigly helpful. Thanks!

[@auntiebobbolink]

All relationship is about connection. Usually, people who want to help have no idea what connection is, so they rely on control.

[@mylittlekittens]

It's either control or connection.

[@timothyj.bowlby5524]

Another thought-provoking video. Thanks, Ed. You really have "to pick your battles" with this kind of person. I'm fortunate to only have known a few of them. There's only one I have to deal with with any kind of regularity... and he's recently become much more distant geographically. Thank goodness! (I know the following is off topic, but it occurred to me that "House of Cards" would be/is a GREAT name for a stand-up comedy joint.)

[@jabolbot9371]

Thank you Rev Ed!!

[@danielolson437]

I cannot imagine what one would have to endure to get that close to a narcissist. I don't have the stomach to feed one's ego sufficiently to gain such influence.

[@thomaselliot2257]

I know of some people who are so sensitive to what I say or not say ,or do or not do that somehow I have insulted them big time and they are seriously upset about it , not mockingly miffed ,and it takes some time till all is forgiven. So I don't think I would be cut out for ministerial work. On another point , I am of the thought that a true narcissist would quite easily make one BELIEVE that one has got through to them , and that they can change when it is THEY who are manipulating.

[@michellewilcock6827]

We need to come together as families the ex-president lost...vote blue 💙 America 🇺🇸 💙 freedom 💙!!!

[@veganatheistandmore]

🌊💚🌊💚🌊

[@BookkeeperJeff]

Vote blue, and you will become lower than a Russian serf. The last thing Democrats care about is freedom

[@gregallen4272]

Jeff burns is a troll he trolls on bo of the fifth column and farron cousins I vote progressives people but if it possible it is better for religion and politics to be completely separate from each other it is not easy but both suffer from one in competition with the other it will probably result in a cult of greed and power that crushes true religion of giving and compassion and the people who follow loose and the people who are abused loose no one comes out in the end

[@BookkeeperJeff]

@@gregallen4272 by troll you mean somebody who hurts your feelings. Make better arguments, my guy. 😁

[@kevinjohnson7839]

Amen

[@RockMumbles]

Thanks! Great message!

[@love_person]

Almost three years and I still haven't recieved an answer to a question that had the potential of challenging that belief......patience.....

[@BarryWynn]

Your long term strategy sounds a lot like the work of raising a child. Guiding them out of a "me centered" view of the world. It also requires a significant amount of personal work in humility which I think is required of a parent.

[@revedtrevors4961]

Good comparison I wish I had thought of - thank you!

[@BarryWynn]

@@revedtrevors4961 My pleasure. I really enjoy your commentaries. They help me work though the topics of the day in context with my faith.

[@davidrada241]

I know a negative narcissist. Where everything is their fault and God's Rath is manifested in even as small as a thunderstorm. But I keep working on it. It's indeed a long journey

[@revedtrevors4961]

I don't think I know anyone like that

[@davidrada241]

I didn't make this diagnosis. It came from a psychiatrist and a a psychologist. In the dsm5 manual there is a word for it but I concentrate on the person, not the analysis.

[@revedtrevors4961]

@@davidrada241 that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing

[@dayegilharno4988]

@@revedtrevors4961 That's me... Everybody and everything happening around ME is judging ME or happening to ME, and hurting ME and constantly asking ME to justify myself for even existing. It took literally decades to get the proper diagnosis, because even to the professionals in the field, this "inverse narcissism" is hard to figure out.

[@miriamyauk7548]

I really so TRY to sit and just listen but my emotions just tend to react. Those I care for I try start in a place of love and what we can agree on. Then try to dialog the differences. I constantly pray Lord Jesus have mercy upon me sinner. One of kindest things I can do is walk away from the situation.

[@ericjohnson6665]

All sage words of advice. I concur, efforts like that take a long time. But either I missed it, or it wasn't there, the person in question needs a motive to change, something important in their lives has to be not working for them in order for them to consider trying something different. Marx said there's no hope for the satisfied man, which has always looked to me like someone with no reason to change. Capitalism is working just fine for the banker, why would he want a fairer system? Yes, a narcissist is protecting something. A deep-seated insecurity or self-loathing perhaps? It requires bravery to address it, which they don't have. A counseling center for men who batter once told me that there's only about a 2% success rate at getting, court ordered men to attend, who actually get better. In other words, most abusive men see nothing wrong with their treatment of women. They think they (women) deserve what they (men) dish out. Likewise, a narcissist sees nothing wrong with their exploitation of everyone else around them. (That's what they're there for, isn't it?) There's a story about Jesus tutoring a 17-year-old from India on the ways of religion, and how Jesus would often stop and help a stranger, and give them words of encouragement, but one time, they passed right by this one guy, and Ganid wanted to know why? Jesus informed him that the man was a pagan and wasn't a seeker of truth beyond what he already knew. Which later evolved into his comment about not casting pearls before swine. Try as hard as he might, even Jesus was unable to turn Judas away from his self-centeredness. Not everyone can be saved. Perhaps our focus should be primarily on those for whom we can assist. [Sorry, but all of my family members are lefties, I've not encountered this situation. Education level may have something to do with it.]

[@helenf1439]

Rev Ed, thank you for sharing the position of the Anglican Church on the narcissist.

[@FreddieVee]

You're a better man than I.

[@DairyAir]

Simply : teach them how to learn. Make them ask the right questions and how to find the right answers…

[@jdog667]

I use the introspective angle ,ya know ,keep it simple !

[@James-dx2vs]

I'm good at keeping my yap shut during the holidays until someone else says something stupid. I have to be more mindful.

[@chris55529]

Pastor Ed -- I hope you had a good Thanksgiving. I know you hate me, and I don't blame you. This may not matter, but I have schizophrenia. Literally. It's considered to be the worst mental illness of all, and sometimes I get tired of fighting it. Anyway, great video.

[@revedtrevors4961]

God bless you Jonathan.

[@lorielyman9257]

Couldn’t go to Thanksgiving because my mother has framed posters of Elon Musk and could not stand to look at them.

[@revedtrevors4961]

It's good to know your boundaries. Thank you and God bless you

[@alyssasabrae7943]

I gave up. No more political or politico-religious conversations with that person.

[@BookkeeperJeff]

That's the best course. My daughter is the opposite end of the political spectrum from me. We have a rule about never speaking about anything political. It's been a huge benefit to out relationship.

[@vulpeish]

^ ^ Ok Rev...... Fine But Im not up for it! I knpw a man who is a narssisist an I have rejected him from my life because of the harm that he has done to me and so many other people..... including his own family........I think Herr Doktor Freud was right. Foxy Pagan Love fae Scotland VVxx

[@rparl]

The Socratic method is sometimes helpful.

[@michaelbindner9883]

For some, like my father, alcohol was involved.

[@davidwillims2004]

not so sure that their house of cards will actually crash, as they can ignore any thing that doesnt fit their view of the world.

[@carolr4871]

I have people in my life who there's no talking to on specific issues. For example, my friend Paula is dogmatic about politics. I don't have the energy to talk politics with her, because she talks over me and belittles my views (or any views different from hers). But I'm not going to give her up as a friend because of that. So I simply don't talk politics with her, and when she heads in that direction, I just remind her that I don't want to talk politics. Our relationships with people don't have to be all or nothing. Somebody can be not worth talking to on one issue and not others. That psychiatrist you mentioned who thought narcissists could be treated, did he have any actual success treating them? Or was it just a theory?

[@michaelchase418]

I disagree, you cannot treat a narcissist, maybe you can teach them to be better narcissists but you can not change them. No different than the other cluster B personality disorders. I appreciate your hope, your love and your approach. I just can't believe they can me helped.

[@dayegilharno4988]

Maybe... maybe there is a difference between "treating narcissists" and "helping them to treat themselves"?!

[@CitizenPlane]

I agree with you, Michael. And it worries me to see Rev Ed Trevors continually advising people to become the supply for narcissists in order to try to fix them. The advice is dangerous, and based on information from 50 years ago. Surely there is a more recent source of information on this that we could reference?

[@mylittlekittens]

I'm listening to this, but it sounds very draining.

[@dayegilharno4988]

@@CitizenPlane What I took from this vid is, that Ed IS aware that it takes a very specific set of skills "to not get sucked into the person's drama, acknowledge what they say, but stay on the subject at hand" (as s/o else in this comment section has described the continuous task) and advocates not for taking on that challende at any cost to oneself, but to be honest enough towards ourselves to acknowledge that we might not be prepared to do so. But I might be wrong... It would still be a case of: "If you HAVE the means...", though.

[@marylinbelcher9918]

As an RN, I get your association of these with a narcissist, but the biggest problem is that both of these types can and will suck your very being out of you. You must be a VERY strong person in your own right to be able to do this. I am planning a trip to visit my son, who also is a pastor but/and is strongly republican. He is difficult to talk to at best. Thank you for the tips in dealing with him.

[@mrbob459]

We have had this discussion, but I don't know if you ever followed through with the suggestion you study Ezekiel 14:1-11. The simplistic interpretation of this passage is do not talk to these people about these things, and for most of us that is the best advice they can follow. However, verses 9 and 10 say, ":9 “But if the prophet is prevailed upon to speak a word, it is I, the Lord, who have prevailed upon that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel. 10 They will bear the punishment of their iniquity; as the iniquity of the inquirer is, so the iniquity of the prophet will be." We cannot read these words precisely they are translated here because the church has millennia of misinterpreted concepts that they refuse to correct according to biblical definition and frequently directly contradict the biblical definition. I could have looked for translations that come closer to the point I am about to make, but the problem would still exist. Here we need to use God's definition of prophet which is found in Deuteronomy 18. Because the people refused to hear God's voice for themselves and told Moses and later leaders, "You talk to God then tell us what he said," God spoke to people he called prophets and commanded them to tell the people what he said. That's all a prophet is. They tell someone else what God said, and interpreted most simplistically, anyone who reads the Bible, then tells another what the Bible says, is a prophet. Most of the time we are not to use the most simplistic definition, but on this issue it is proper to do so. Isaiah 65:16 calls God the God of Truth. If something is true it is of God and can be considered his word, so anyone saying something true can be considered a prophet for the purposes of this discussion. There is another matter to be corrected here, and that is the matter of bearing the iniquity of the people. This is a concept the church has always misinterpreted to a higher degree than almost any other concept because the priesthood has no desire to bear the sins of the people in any way, shape or form. They refuse to acknowledge that this is the sin for which Nadab and Abihu were killed. In the law of the sin offering the priest is instructed to eat the priest's portion of this offering, and to eat it in a holy place. During the investigation into the deaths of Nadab and Abihu Moses told Aaron that the purpose of eating this offering was so that the priests would bear the iniquity of the community. Numbers 12:6-8 says that everything God speaks through a prophet is a riddle or a dark saying. He intentionally does not speak to us clearly so that the hearer can reveal the "powerful delusions" (2 Thessalonians 2) or "Idols of the heart" (Ezekiel 14) under which the hearer is operating. There are many ways the priests are to bear the sins of the people. The most simple is to make sure they are educated such that they have life skills and work skills such that they can provide themselves with a place to live and remain healthy and happy. Here in Ezekiel 14 we are dealing with their thought patterns that run counter to the truth. It does not matter whether they are refusing to acknowledge a moral truth or the first law of thermodynamics or anything else. We are to confront them over the lies they believe and all too often try to teach others, BUT ONLY IF WE ARE PROPERLY EDUCATED IN THAT AREA OF KNOWLEDGE and possess the necessary teaching skills. If we are not adequately educated in the subject matter or can't teach, we are to keep our mouths shut and mind our own business. This means we have a responsibility to no only recognize their lies for what they are, but also recognize the limits of our knowledge so that we know whether is is sin (damaging to us or them) to bear their iniquity in this way or if we will only be making matters worse. I have been looking to the answer to this for quite some time, and while I already had most of the pieces of this puzzle in the general area they belong, you have provided a few pieces I was missing and gave some additional context I needed. A large section of this puzzle has fallen into place for me because you did this video.

[@johncrwarner]

A lot of active listening and attempting give feedback by showing we've listened. It is hard.

[@revedtrevors4961]

and exhausting...

[@johncrwarner]

@@revedtrevors4961 Very, I had friends who were involved in community building in Northern Ireland before the peace accord and they definitely aged quicker than others.

[@denisestarr2314]

I don't have patience with the ignorant .

[@BeautifulSpirit-kf5ld]

I disagree with so much in this film, it's almost frightening . The safe way around a narcissist is grey Rock, removing oneself, setting very firm boundaries. Not drawing closer to them.

[@danagordon8871]

I’m sorry, Rev, but even the Bible says let a fool be a fool.

[@charliehargrave7458]

You can not fix stupidity or hate or intolerance with people who have a I Q less than their age. You may as well talk to a stone. Just let them fester in their hate and stay away.

[@stevewhitson324]

When ur dealing with a person that believes in an ideology of they r always right, what is best for them is best for u there is no getting to them no matter what.

[@Mister_Listener]

Too often, however, this wonderful and effective advice ends up as a long term ABUSE pattern. Unfortunately these people are hot headed and manipulative and angry. They get verbally abusive, and that will harm anybody nearby. It is not sustainable advice in America. Only a strong well heeled person can withstand the negativity and anger these people are often swimming in. Very sad. this video is great, but i worry someone caught in abuse cycles will turn inward with your advice to attempt a safe gentle relationship. I hope not.

[@sujabalraj8166]

Thank you!!