Revelation is Not a Trinitarian Book - by J. Dan Gill

[@houseofsaudisthebeast]

the entire holy bible is NOT a trinitarian book

[@andrewferg8737]

4th Century Deformation (21st CR) is not Christian.

[@SoftBreadSoft]

​​@@andrewferg8737Of course it is, it is a return to 33ad, before the church ever argued whether Jesus was divine or not. Like Jesus says, he is your brother, your high priest, and the king of Israel.

[@andrewferg8737]

@@SoftBreadSoft "a return to 33ad, before the church ever argued whether Jesus was divine or not" ---- "I myself will be the Shepherd of my sheep and cause them to lie down in peace, the Lord God says. I will seek my lost ones, those who strayed away, and bring them safely home again" (Ezekiel 34) "I am the good Shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep" (John 1)

[@SoftBreadSoft]

​@@andrewferg8737 You should probably finish reading. John is calling others shepherds and teaching how to be good shepherds. Are they God too? lol “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” John 17- 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 5 Have this mind in you, which is yours in Christ Jesus,[a] 6 who, though he was in (note; εn, positional in, being in a store doesn't make you a store) the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,[b] 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,[c] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Have this mind of you. If Christ is God we must all be God as we were made one in God in the same way Christ was. We are not God. Take care.

[@SmalltimR]

@@andrewferg8737 Are we to ignore that Jesus became our Shepherd? Do we also ignore that Jesus' Father gave Him His sheep? How can anyone know the truth if they have not seen it?

[@kavitadeva]

I thank God for this Channel. I simply CANNOT understand that any Christian, especially Bible Scholars. Bless you at 21st Century Reformation.

[@grasonicus]

It's easy to understand--stupid people far outnumber intelligent people. Most people don't think about the subject of the Trinity. Professional theologians will lose their incomes if they say anything against the Trinity. Theology falls under the arts and humanities, an especially dense group of people. And there you have it.

[@andrewferg8737]

4th Century Deformation (21st CR) is not Christian.

[@kavitadeva]

@@andrewferg8737 why are you watching their channel?

[@andrewferg8737]

@@kavitadeva Hopefully to correct the errors presented in these videos, for any viewers who might be interested or on the fence, as they say.

[@RaptureReadyLaodicean]

​@@andrewferg8737 Peter & Paul taught the first church successor Clement, that the "only God", was the father. Clement, was Peters "successor", greeted by "Paul in Philippians 4:3" and ran the church60-90AD till Martyred. Here's Clement: 1 Clement 59:4. "Let all the Gentiles know that 👉Thou art the God alone, and 🫴Jesus Christ is Thy Son. Clement echos Jesus perfectly as follows: John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the 👉only true God, and 🫴 Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." Irenaeus~ Against Heresies 3.9.1 (180-200AD) The Lord Himself handing down to His disciples, that He, the Father, is the 🫳only God and Lord, who alone is 🫱God and ruler of all… 300+ years After the apostles passed the narrative got out of hand. As America's only "247 years old", and we're definitely NOT ""early Americans"? Hebrews 1 encourages us to worship Jesus like the Angels did, because "Yah" raised him from the dead & made him a God at his Right hand. Take it in... S Gentiles dividing the holy jealous God of Israel into fractions😬 Christians had no business in "reframing" the biblical narrative", with ZERO framework or Apostolic procession. Only 2% of people in Israel even believe in the Messiah! Christians are. "hiding/masking Israel's Messiah-Son-of-Man, and sadly Islam is gaining all of our MONOTHEISTIC Jewish converts.🙄

[@jamesdabrowski6436]

Another great video. Thank you and keep them coming!

[@aaronsanchez3141]

There is nothing trinitarian about revelation or the whole scripture.

[@mikehutton3937]

To quote notable Unitarian Dr. George Ellis (1814-1894) of Harvard: "“Fifty years of study, thought and reading given largely to the Bible and to the literature which peculiarly relates to it, have brought me to this conclusion, that the book - taken with the especial divine quality and character claimed for it, and so extensively assigned to it, as inspired and infallible as a whole, and in all its contents-is an Orthodox book. It yields what is called the Orthodox creed. The vast majority of its readers, following its letter, its obvious sense, its natural meaning, and yielding to the impression which some of its emphatic texts make upon them, find in it Orthodoxy. Only that kind of ingenious, special, discriminative, and in candor I must add, forced treatment, which it receives from us liberals can make the book teach anything but Orthodoxy." Note Orthodoxy = Trinitarian. This is the reason why there are very few Biblical unitarians. If Thomas Belsham had to butcher his translation of the Bible to suit his prejudices, not unlike the Watchtower's New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, then at the very least we can say that the Bible is not a unitarian book.

[@Post-Trib]

​@ErwinMager Read Acts 2:38 which is the fulfillment of Matt 28:19

[@SoftBreadSoft]

​@@Post-Trib Jesus Christ is the High Priest of the Melchizedek Order, it is normal to be baptized in the High Priests name. So your answer is Gnosis? Can you find any scripture that indicates Jesus is God? But there are dozens saying he is a servant, he is subservient, he is our brother, he is the high priest. Interesting. You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call- one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Most importantly, a favorite of you guys to quote but you always stop at the third verse, wonder why? John 17:20. 20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. 26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.” If Jesus is God - all men are God, which is what you gnostics really want to believe.

[@SoftBreadSoft]

@@Post-Trib Nothing here says Christ is God or that the holy spirit, God's breath/will, is another person. 1 Peter 1:1 To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. Praise to God for a Living Hope 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead Very clear distinction that the Father is Christ's God, and our God.

[@Post-Trib]

@@SoftBreadSoft I agree with scripture. "...the appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" He's our great God and savior. The Father himself is in Christ. All that we will ever hear or see of God is Jesus

[@grasonicus]

In the first verse, the path of the message is from God, to Jesus, to an angel, to John, to the rest. A very clear hierarchy. Where's the Trinitarian equality?

[@toddstevens9667]

Trinitarians believe that Jesus is dependent on, and subordinate to, God the Father. Just saying …

[@grasonicus]

@@toddstevens9667 Some Trinitarians may believe that, but it's not the orthodox Trinitarian dogma. You won't believe me, so look it up. Here are quotes about the Trinity: “None of the three divine Persons is either of the others; each is wholly Himself. Yet each is fully God.” “The members of the Trinity are co-equal and co-eternal, one in essence, nature, power, action, and will.” Co-equal and co-eternal are Trinitarian terms.

[@moisesbeyond]

@@toddstevens9667 if you are dependant of someone you are not equal to that someone...not because someone believe a non logical thing means is true....I believe in Superman with all my heart and that doesnt mean he is real

[@toddstevens9667]

@@grasonicusOk. But there might need to be some definition of precisely what co-equal means within the context. But ok.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@moisesbeyondFirst, the Bible is not logical. It’s revelation. Logic is irrelevant. Christianity is not logical. It isn’t logical for a holy God to reconcile sinners who hate Him to Himself through the sacrifice of a perfect man. So logic is out the window. But on to the more important question: what do you mean that Superman isn’t real? Are you crazy!!!! Next thing you know, you’ll say Godzilla isn’t real. You need to just step back and get a grip. 🤪

[@JudyAnn17]

Sun-sabbath isn’t biblical either. Both Trinity doctrine and Sunday sabbath are Rome’s doctrines.

[@keithjamessinclair]

Revelation is spoken via an angel to God's servant John switching between the words of the Father and those of His Son. For example: in one place the angel says I am the alpha and omega (the Father speaking) and in another I am he who was dead and is now alive (Jesus) ...

[@Post-Trib]

Not true

[@JudyAnn17]

It’s both the angel Gabriel and Jesus. You find both the angel Gabriel and Jesus in Daniel. Daniel is the hidden book, where revelation is opened, they need to be studied together. I believe Rev 19 shows the angel refused to be worshiped. That shows it’s not Jesus.

[@sense6460]

This makes absolute sense

[@andrewferg8737]

“they worshipped him: but some doubted” (Matthew 28)

[@marcus.H]

Please make the audio on these videos mono. Headphones users find it distracting (Headphones users your phone may have settings to switch audio to mono)

[@CuriousCattery]

Thank you, I switched to mono.. much better!

[@marcus.H]

@@CuriousCattery

[@NotMyOwn-xd5iu]

My perspective: a good example of the glorified Christ (Christo, the anointing of the Father) this making Jesus the expression of the Father’s redemption. We see the Father’s expression of the object of his salvation and judgment for rejecting. Matthew 24 we see Jesus coming in the clouds upon that generation standing there. This took place in AD70, Jesus is not there in the flesh or in person. This is all about what the Father is after. He is seeking vessels that are will to give him expression. That’s why Jesus needed to be fully Human a vessel for the Father. “I only do when I see my father doing as he does it, for he alone has the words are eternal life”. Everything thing else is death/separation.

[@gordonhumbled]

In Daniel 7:9-14, Daniel reports his vision seeing the Ancient of Days (Eternal God) on His throne and the Son of Man (Jesus Christ) receiving the Kingdom. The Holy Spiritbis not mentioned so the passage does not express the Trinity. Why should we expect that all passages should portray all 3 Persons that are 1 God?

[@nobodyspecial1852]

Anthropological metaphor, as used throughout the bible, refers to sons of God and God as a Father. None of that is literal, but it's deeper than "the void has a consciousness and created you", and we use it because it wants us to. To go further, if you consider Jesus to have been the mortal vessel or avatar of God, then it's all squared up with no vagueness at all.

[@stommper1234]

How do you explain Revelation 12:10-13 in light of Hebrews 2:14.

[@Psalm-pu2jq]

Hi - I am not sure that I understand your question.?

[@stommper1234]

@@Psalm-pu2jq Hebrews 2:14 says the devil was destroyed by the death of Jesus. some suggest the devil was not destroyed but merely rendered ineffective as to have no power. Revelation 12 shows that the devil or red dragon is very much alive and with great power. How do you explain that.

[@grasonicus]

@@stommper1234 There's much in the Bible which is unclear. It's often unclear what should be taken literally and what figuratively. From the dimensions given in Revelation, the New Jerusalem won't nearly fit in Israel. It won't even fit in India. It will fit in Australia and the USA. Furthermore, it's also supposed to reach much higher into space than the orbit of the International Space Station.

[@stommper1234]

@@grasonicus it's not unclear it's a contradiction. If the devil was rendered powerless by the death of Jesus, then to claim he is yer very powerful is a contradiction. The problem gets resolved when we understand what the devil truly represents.

[@bellairsviewcomplex173]

​@@stommper1234if you had finish reading the chapter from verse 14 where you see contradiction with Revelations you would have received your answer. It's about "SIN". Christ dying to empower believers to fight against temptations.

[@sense6460]

Notice jesus is of God, the holy spirit of God, So from God they proceed, God is the source of all

[@grasonicus]

Protestant churches follow the Roman Catholic belief that the HS is from the Father and Jesus--filioque. That was in part responsible for the schism between RC and Eastern Orthodox churches.

[@andrewferg8737]

You are implying that God changed at some point.

[@lemostd9727]

Here is another scripture that clearly tells us that Jesus Christ is God : 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV [16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. You will find this verse incorrectly translated in most of the other Per- versions .

[@SmalltimR]

manifest = revealed IOW. GOD was revealed in the man Jesus Christ on earth

[@juniormonteiro6323]

Thank you!

[@lemostd9727]

Ephesians 3:9-11 KJV [9] and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: [10] to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, [11] according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

[@anthonydefreitas5734]

The argument against Trinitarianism, using John's Revelation, is a good one. However it can detract from the speaker's credibility if one misquotes those one disagrees with. eg? Arius. He did not teach Jesus to be an eternal preexistent Son. Preexistent, yes, but not from eternity. Arius taught, based on Scripture, that Jesus was the FIRST creation of God. (Rev.3:14) He argued, Scripturally, that there was a time when he was not. That Jesus derived his life from God his Father. This is not to endorse all Arius' views, but a reminder to be accurate. The preexistence of Jesus, even his sharing his Father's divine nature, does not mean he is from eternity...as is God. (Rev.15:3 note whose "song" extols the "King of eternity") A human son may share his father's human nature...but not his age!. A son derives life from his father , but not vice versa. John 6:57

[@lemostd9727]

Here is scripture from the book of Revelation that reveals Jesus being worshipped in heaven at the throne room alongwith God the Father by angels, elders and the 4 beasts: Revelation 5:11-14 KJV [11] And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; [12] saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. [13] And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. [14] And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

[@SmalltimR]

Israel worshipped the King(human) anointed to the throne along with GOD - quite clearly, such claims fail miserably, let alone, proving to be terribly desperate, in-that anyone would be fooled into worshipping a god and doctrine that is nowhere revealed, practices or preached by anyone in all of Bible history. I mean, in all seriousness, it's absolutely bonkers that anyone would even think such a thing insofar as followers of Christ are concerned.

[@jjmulvihill]

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ -Verse is in red print (Jesus is God, he is the Son of God) -Can’t believe someone needs to make a video like this to skirt the rest of the Bible. Matthew 28:19, Jesus says it himself “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”. Trinity is throughout the Bible!

[@SmalltimR]

Try reading from the beginning - the one who is coming is Jesus' Father

[@davidrandell2224]

Revelation is first person only. Anything after that is hearsay written or spoken. See Isaac Newton’s ‘book’ about Daniel/Revelation. He was certainly no ‘trinitarian’. Why bother.

[@lemostd9727]

The Bible clearly reveals that the Lord Jesus Christ is creator alongwith the God The Father. He is Lord over all creation and is in total submission to God His Father in all things. Colossians 1:15-20 KJV. [15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [16] for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [17] and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [19] For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; [20] and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Philippians 2:9-11 KJV [9] Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [10] that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [11] and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. John 1:9-10 KJV [9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV [6] but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

[@gordonhumbled]

Origin of The Trinity The Nicene Council bishops did not have the knowledge that we have today. They wrote in the Nicene Creed that Jesus was "eternally begotten." They are correct but theologians think of a meiosis birth, a mammal and human live birth. But, how can Jesus be eternal and have a birth which is a beginning. Meiosis birth makes "eternally begotten" an oxymoron which by definition is unreal. The problem is that it was not like a meiosis birth. It is more like a mitosis birth, a one celled organism becoming two cells by division. This is Scriptural because in the Greek, the Apostle John wrote that Jesus and Holy Spirit came out of Father. I will give the details on this later. One can illustrate the cell division birth by cutting a board into three pieces. The nature of the material does not change. And, the age of the wood does not change. All of the attributes of the original one board are retained/preserved. Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit separated by division and so became separate yet remained eternal. This is why Jesus could say to Thomas, "When you see me, you see the Father." (John 14:9) Apostle John wrote of Jesus Christ: John 16:27-28 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God. I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.” And of Holy Spirit: John 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. He used the Greek compound verb ekerchomai to say Jesus came from God/Father and the compound verb ekporeuamai to say Holy Spirit came from the Father. He compounded these two verbs by putting the prefix "ek" on them. "Ek" means "to come out of." John changed the Greek verbs that mean "to come away from" to mean "to come out of" (God/Father). To come out of is a birth. But it was like a mitosis birth, cell division. This removes "eternally begotten" from being an oxymoron. Jesus taught in Matthew 13 that he speaks in parables. Parables, types and shadows, are possible because God put in His creation, which we can see and study, Kingdom knowledge which we cannot see. So God put into His first reproductive system, single cell division, an illustration of how Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit came out of/proceeded out of Father. Jesus told Nicodemas in John 3:12 "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" Paul said the same in different words in 1 Corinthians 15:46 "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." They are describing the construct of a parable. God put into the earthy/the natural heavenly/spiritual knowledge. The first reproductive system that God created is mitosis, single cell division, where the daughter cells are copies/clones of the parent cell. Father invented clones; not the scientists. So, in mitosis, God showed how the preincarnate Jesus and the Holy Spirit separated from Father in a division and yet retained the same essence, nature, and attributes, being eternal, as the Father. The three are equal in all aspects.

[@PMaximov]

Congratulations, my dear Sir! You have just equated God to an amoeba.

[@gordonhumbled]

@@PMaximov Not at all. The comparison was to the first reproductive system that God created. Above that I compared it to dividing a board. The object or animal is irrelevant. Only the comparson to the point I was making is relevant. You cannot refute this because John said in the Greek ekporeuomai and ekerchomai which mean that Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit came out of God. Even Dr. Thayer of Thayers lexicon saw this but could not reconcile it to a meiosis birth having a begininng. So he made up another place that they came out of. He said they "came out of God's abode." John did not say this. He said they came out of God. Your response shows that you lack understanding and appreciation of Jesus' teaching about parables and God placing knowledge of His Kingdom into His Creation to help us understand Him. He illustrated Preincarnate Spirit Jesus and Holy Spirit's birth at some point in eternity by dividing Himself. Because the result was the Triune God that we worship, it is in harmony with all the Scriptures. And the whole Trinity does not have to be mentioned together in every passage of Scripture. The Holy Spirit is not mentioned in Daniel 7:9-14 when the Ancient of Days gave the Son of Man the Kingdom. God can do anything. Also, sir, you forget that God prizes and rewards humility over pride and arrogance. Our Lord was born in a stable with smelly animal manure and laid in a feeding trough.

[@SoftBreadSoft]

So, gnosticism? Got it. "John 14:9" Yeah, God tabernacled in Jesus, the Word in flesh, that's how prophets have always worked. He only does the will of the Father, all his works are by the Father, the works are not by him but by his Father who sent him. What about it? ekporeuomai literally means "to be sent/cast out", ek- is exclusionary, "out of"/"outside of", ekerchomai literally means "out of place to another." What am I supposed to be refuting? How does Jesus being created and sent from God make him God? John 17 clearly indicates, that if Jesus is God, all men are God. Read it carefully.

[@Z91514]

I like and agree

[@andrewferg8737]

Ipse est genitori, genitoque, et procedenti ab utroque. Pater et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus, unum Deo, per omnia saecula saeculorum.

[@euston2216]

*REVELATION 22 (KJV)* [3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne *of God AND of the Lamb* shall be in it; and *HIS servants* shall serve *HIM:* [4] And they shall see *HIS face;* and *HIS name* shall be in their foreheads. "God and the Lamb" are not referred to as "their/them". "God and the Lamb" are referred to with the *singular* "HIS/HIM". And that's because "God and the Lamb" are the selfsame *unipersonal* Spirit, whose name is revealed to be the name which is above _every_ name: *JESUS.* -- "God" = the ROOT of David = JESUS -- "the Lamb" = the OFFSPRING of David (i.e., the ROOT of David "manifest in the flesh") = JESUS *REVELATION 22:16 (KJV)* *I JESUS* have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. *I am the root AND the offspring of David,* and the bright and morning star. -- JESUS is _both_ the root of David _and_ the offspring of David. -- JESUS is _both_ the invisible God _and_ the invisible God's visible image, the Lamb. -- JESUS is _both_ the one true God - God the Father - _and_ God the Father's genuinely human manifestation, the only begotten Son of God. And HIS servants shall serve HIM. _RE--VE--LA--TION._

[@eddieyoung2104]

You seem to saying that God the Father is the offspring of the man David.

[@euston2216]

@@eddieyoung2104 God the Father is the *root* (source) of David, and he, God the Father, "came down from heaven" _without leaving heaven,_ and manifested _himself_ on earth in genuine human form, as _his own_ Son - "the only begotten Son of God", the *offspring* of David - so that he, God the Father, could lay down _his own_ life for us, raise _himself_ from the dead, and give eternal life to all who believe on _him_ .......whose _name_ is revealed to be the name which is above _every_ name: JESUS. *"I JESUS...I am the root **_AND_** the offspring of David..."*

[@eddieyoung2104]

@@euston2216 God is truly the origin of David, but that's not what root is referring to here. Root is not the same as source. Yes, the roots are the source of water and nutrition for the rest of the plant. But, it's not the source of the plant itself, because source refers to origin, and the root is not the origin of the plant. The plant is actually the source of the roots, because they grow from the plant like everything else does. Or if we said a seed, it's the same there also. The roots and the stalk grow from the seed. Which makes the seed the origin. So, whether David is the seed or the plant, he is the source or origin of the roots. The root proceeds from him, as it does from a plant or a seed. That means that both the root and the offspring of David are things which proceed from him. And that's not a needless duplication either. Because it refers to two different aspects. Offspring is like the fruit of the plant which bears seed, whereas the roots are for nutrition and stability, and therefore give life to the plant. In the case of Jesus, he is the seed coming from the plant David, and therefore his successor. And he is also the root which gives life to David, because Jesus is his saviour. In this way, we could say that the roots are the saviour of the plant, even though they proceed from the plant. That would mean Jesus is saying he is the saviour and successor of David.

[@euston2216]

@@eddieyoung2104 _>>> "Yes, the roots are the source of water and nutrition for the rest of the plant. But, it's not the source of the plant itself, because source refers to origin, and the root is not the origin of the plant. The plant is actually the source of the roots..."_ If the plant is the source of the roots, and if the roots in turn are the source of water and nutrition for the plant, then *the plant* is ultimately the source of water and nutrition for *the plant.* Which, in your analogy, would result in the error that *David* is the source of life for *David.* David of course is not a plant, but rather a person...in a "family tree". THE root of a family tree is THE _predecessor_ of _everyone else_ in that tree. So "THE root of DAVID" in _David's_ family tree is *THE **_predecessor_* of _everyone else_ in that tree. Which, according to Luke:3:23-38, is *GOD.* THE root of David is *GOD* (Lk.3:23-38). THE root of David is *JESUS* (Rev.22:16). Hence, *JESUS **_IS_** GOD.* _Re--ve--la--tion._ _>>> "In the case of Jesus, he is the seed coming from the plant David, and therefore his successor. And he is also the root which gives life to David, because Jesus is his saviour."_ If Jesus is David's Saviour, in the eternal sense, then Jesus is the one true God - i.e., "the LORD". *ISAIAH 43:11 (KJV)* I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. We have only one Saviour... "GOD our Saviour" - 1 Timothy 1:1 "GOD our Saviour" - 1 Timothy 2:3 "GOD our Saviour" - Titus 1:3 "GOD our Saviour" - Titus 2:10 "GOD our Saviour" - Titus 3:4 "our Saviour JESUS CHRIST" - 2 Timothy 1:10 "the LORD JESUS CHRIST our Saviour" - Titus 1:4 "our Saviour JESUS CHRIST" - Titus 2:13 "JESUS CHRIST our Saviour" - Titus 3:6 "our Saviour JESUS CHRIST" - 2 Peter 1:1 -- If God is our only Saviour, and -- if _Jesus_ is our only Saviour, and -- *if Jesus is NOT God,* -- then our only Saviour is NOT our only Saviour, -- which means we have no Saviour. But *JESUS **_IS_** GOD,* the omnipotent and unipersonal Spirit who "came down from heaven" _without leaving heaven,_ and who manifested _himself_ on earth in genuine human form, as _his own_ Son, so that he could lay down _his own_ life for us, raise _himself_ from the dead, and be *the one and **_only_** Saviour of all who believe on HIM.*

[@eddieyoung2104]

@@euston2216 In the biblical description, David being the plant doesn't mean that the root coming from him has to also be him. For example, Isaiah 11:1, 'And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots'. Here we have Jesus described as a branch, and a sucker/shoot of Jesse. And both branch and shoot are still attached to the parent plant, yet describing a separate person. So, it's quite legitimate to say that the root coming from David is Jesus, even though the roots are part of David. Just as in Isaiah 11, the branch and shoot was strictly speaking part of Jesse, but referring at the same time to his descendant. Jesus also didn't need to be God, in order to be David's saviour. You're basing that on a faulty interpretation of Isaiah 43:11. Where God is not allowed to provide anyone and call them a saviour, unless they're also God. What then do you do with Judges 3:9, 3:15, 6:14, 10:1, 13:5 where Othniel, Ehud, Gideon, Tola, and Samson are called deliverers (Hebrew 'yasha' or 'saviour')? This is the same word used in Isaiah 43:11 of God? Judges 6:36 shows us the way in which God saves by others. 'And Gideon said unto God, If thou wilt save Israel by mine hand...' And this is the very same way that Jesus is the saviour. God saves us by the hand of his son, a separate being, just as the judges were. And when we read Acts 13:23 we see that Jesus is described in the same terms as the judges, as one who is raised up like they were. 'Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus'. This means that when God says there's no saviour beside him, he's excluding the saviours who work on his behalf. Isaiah 43:11 is actually referring to false gods mentioned in verse 12. The point being, that there is no other god or idol that can save apart from Yahweh. But, he clearly saves by the hand of men.

[@toddstevens9667]

So how many Alphas and Omegas, firsts and lasts, can there be? In 1:8, God Almighty says He’s the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending. In verse 11, Jesus claims to be the Alpha and Omega, the first and last. It’s repeated again in verse 17. So there’s two Alpha and Omegas? Seems like there’s a bit of mystery there that needs to be solved. Trinitarians solve it one way, you evidently solve it differently. But the doctrine of the Trinity is just trying to make sense of little mysteries like this that you find throughout the NT. Like the mystery in John 1:1. How can someone be WITH God and also BE God at the same time? Or the mystery you find in Colossians 1. Jesus is unambiguously declared to be the creator from Genesis 1. But just a verse earlier He’s declared to be the Firstborn of creation. That’s another mystery that Trinitarians solve differently than you do. But we need to understand that these verses create mysteries and we’re all doing the best we can to try to solve them within the context of the NT. But insisting that there is a distinction made between God the Father and His son Jesus doesn’t really address any of the arguments of the Trinitarians, since they all agree that there IS a distinction between the Father and the Son. The Trinitarians do not claim that they are the same being. Trinitarians agree that the Son is dependent on, and subordinate to, the Father. So proving that same doctrine over and over doesn’t do much but agree with their starting position.

[@eddieyoung2104]

You said that 'Trinitarians do not claim that they (the Father and the Son) are the same being. But, is that not a main point of the Trinity, that they are all the same being? According to Wikipedia, 'In Trinitarian doctrine, God exists as three persons but is one being, having a single divine nature'. If they were not the same being, then the Trinity would be made up of multiple beings. That is, three Gods instead of one. So, when distinctions are made between the Father and Jesus, it is to show that they are two separate beings, rather than one. In regard to Colossian 1, it is not so clear that it's speaking of the Genesis creation. Because if we examine the list of created things in verse 16, they are not things which were created in Genesis 1. It's speaking of things to do with a kingdom, of which we know Jesus is the anointed. It also clarifies it by saying he's the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead. This all points to a new creation where he is the creator, beginning, and firstborn. And it's this new creation which will inherit the kingdom. The fact he is the beginning of the new creation, as God is the beginning of the old, gives us a good explanation as to why he is called the Alpha and Omega, like his father is. God is alpha of the Genesis creation, and Jesus is alpha of the new creation. Even if we wanted to relate Jesus to the old creation we could still do that, without making him equal to his father. Because even the old creation was completed with Jesus in mind. It was all for him, and from the start after Adam sinned, Jesus was promised. So, we could call him alpha of that as well, without taking away from his father being alpha, as the one who created it. In other words, he's 'A' because he was planned and promised from the beginning, and the Father is 'A' because everything comes from him and he created everything. Put another way, at work we may have two bosses. An immediate boss, and a boss who is over the whole company or organisation. But, both people we would call 'boss' without making them one and the same being. Calling someone 'boss' is basically saying they're 'alpha', which means we could legitimately have two alphas.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@eddieyoung2104 First, you’re being silly. Colossians very clearly says that Jesus created all things. Colossians 1:16 KJV For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: All things in heaven and earth. That’s Genesis 1. Second, the Bible creates mysteries about the person of Jesus. How can the Word be WITH God and BE God at the same time? That’s a mystery. How can Jesus be the creator of Genesis 1 and the Firstborn of creation? How can there be two Alpha and Omegas, firsts and lasts? These are mysteries that the Bible creates, but never clarifies. You solve those mysteries differently than trinitarians. But I think we all need to understand that we simply don’t have definitive answers to these mysteries. I really think we all need to be more understanding of the fact that we all solve these mysteries differently. But lying about each other’s positions and twisting their ideas to distort them helps no one. Even twisting the scriptures, like you did about Colossians 1, isn’t helpful. Just admit that we don’t really know the definitive answer to these mysteries.

[@eddieyoung2104]

@@toddstevens9667 I'm not sure exactly who or what you refer to, when you talk of lying about other's positions. All I know is that you yourself got it wrong about the Trinity, saying that 'Trinitarians do not claim that they (the Father and the Son) are the same being. That was probably an unintentional mistake on your part, which shows that getting details wrong is easily done. But, that doesn't mean people are trying to lie about what others believe. And yes, I can see how you might find my interpretation of Colossians strange. But, it only appears strange if we decide that it can only refer to Genesis 1. However, there's no such necessity to constrain it that creation. Even though we read the words, 'all things in heaven and earth', that doesn't point it exclusively to Genesis 1 either. Because it depends what those 'all things' refer to. Do they refer to all creatures, plant life, sun, moon, and stars, or can it apply to something else? I think the context shows clearly that things other than the natural creation are being spoken of. Namely, thrones, dominions etc. Another important detail is that it says, 'all things', and then says 'whether they be'. And the 'They' is a referring back to the 'all things'. Whether those all things be, thrones, dominions, principalities, or powers. And then it repeats again 'all things were created by him'. That is, all those things just mentioned. Therefore, in this context the 'all things' is restricted to what the new creation consists of. It is all of the new creation, rather than all of the old. So, we can read it this way, 'all things in heaven and earth were created by him, whether those all things are thrones, dominions, principalities, or powers, they were all created by him, and for him'.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@eddieyoung2104 My reference about lying wasn’t about what you said. It was just a general statement about the featured speaker that repeatedly in various videos states that trinitarians don’t believe that Jesus is God’s Son. That’s just a lie. Every trinitarian believes that Jesus is God’s Son. They all believe John 3:16. But your attempt to twist Colossians is crazy. Of course it means Genesis 1. That is the account of God creating all things. You’re just being silly and argumentative. You just need to realize that there are mysteries in how the Bible deals with Jesus. You have answers to the mysteries, and trinitarians have answers to the mysteries. But both are just doing there best to put everything together. But we all need to do a better job of not misrepresenting the other side’s positions, and not twisting scriptures to make them fit our agenda.

[@toddstevens9667]

@@eddieyoung2104Two more points: 1) Trinitarian doctrine does not claim that Jesus and God the Father are the same being. Not a single trinitarian believes that God the Father died on the cross. They are separate beings. Jesus is God’s Son and God the Son, which is distinct from God the Father. 2) Do you really think that when Paul wrote Colossians 1 and said that Jesus created all things in heaven and on earth that he meant except for all the stuff that God made in Genesis 1 (which were all things in heaven and earth)? That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

[@N3773B]

The only thing I don't understand both God and Jesus said I an alpha and omega

[@eddieyoung2104]

If we see Jesus as the beginning of the new creation, as God is the beginning of the old, that gives us a good explanation as to why he's called the Alpha and Omega, like his father is. God is alpha of the Genesis creation, and Jesus is alpha of the new creation. We could even say Jesus was Alpha of the old creation as well if we wanted, without it making him the creator of it, or making him equal to God. Because it was all made for Jesus and with him in mind. In other words, he's alpha because he was planned and promised from the beginning, and the Father is alpha because everything comes from him and he created everything.

[@N3773B]

@@eddieyoung2104 thank you

[@SoftBreadSoft]

Beginning and end of the new order of the holy priesthood of man. God has no beginning, Jesus was made entirely like his brethren, so it should be clear he is not God.

[@andrewferg8737]

So your spirit, soul, and body, are not all the one and same "self" that is you?

[@SoftBreadSoft]

@@andrewferg8737 Nope. The flesh profits nothing. The spirit is life.

[@celestialknight2339]

As Muslims, we too believe in God; and in what was inspired to us, and what was inspired to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and all the Patriarchs; and also what was given to Moses and Jesus, and in what was given to all the prophets from their Lord. We do not discriminate between any of them; and to Him we surrender ourselves completely. We love & respect Jesus Christ (peace & blessings be upon him), the son of Mary; but believe that he is only the Messiah and blessed prophet & messenger of God. He was not God himself nor did he ever claim such; but instead he called people back to the worship of the one true God-his Lord and our Lord ❤️ This is clear from many passages of the Bible itself, such as when Christ is quoted as saying: *_”The most important commandment, Jesus answered, is this: ‘Hear O Israel! The Lord OUR God, the Lord is ONE!’”_* ~ The Gospel of Mark 12:29 *_Jesus replied, “Why do you call ME good? NO ONE is good except GOD alone!”_* ~ Mark 10:18 *_Jesus said, “Whoever does the will of God-that is my brother and my sister and my mother!”_* ~ Mark 3:35 - And many other such passages, which show that Jesus was a human being sent BY God with the same exact message as all the other prophets & messengers before him-which is to serve God alone, and to love your neighbor, and to turn back in repentance to the Creator before the final Day of Resurrection & Judgement. So let us worship the Creator alone, not the creation 🙏🏼 And let us follow the _message_ God has sent, rather than worshiping the _messenger_ who delivered it. For there is only one worthy of worship-God, the Ultimate & Absolute, who neither begets nor was begotten, and who has no co-equal. And all praise & thanks be to Him. Finally note that God speaks to all Christians in His final revelation-the Qur’an-in which He solemnly declares: *_”O followers of the Scripture! Do not cross the limits in your religion, nor say anything about God but the truth! The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, is only God’s messenger, and His word which He cast into Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not speak of a trinity. Stop-it is for your own good! God is one sole divinity, who is far above having a son. He owns everything in the heavens and everything on earth-and God alone is sufficient to sustain all things.”_* ~ The Recitation [Al-Qur’ān], Sūrah 4:171 I hope you all humbly consider with an open mind. And know that this message only comes from a place of love & respect 🤍 Peace/Shalom

[@charlestiraco8634]

Hi. The bible says that we need the pure atoning blood of Jesus to cleanse our sins... God is not going to just clean the slate by batting an eye or sweeping everything under the rug... our sin needs to be washed with a spiritual cleansing... the blood of Jesus. Doesn't that make more sense? Being covered in sin is the same as being covered in mud... you need to be washed. God is a judge and he isn't going to let anything go without justice... our charges need to be satisfied. We needed Jesus. Please consider this fact found in the Bible and that the Quran denies God's true plan of salvation through the sacrifice of his begotten son (NOT GOD). Doesn't it make more sense just to think about it? God being truly incapable of just sweeping sin under the rug without judgment. Doesn't that sound more like a just and holy God who showed us his lovingkindness and mercy by working out a way to satisfy our sin debt without compromising himself? Thank you for reading.

[@celestialknight2339]

@@charlestiraco8634 Thank you for your kind response sir. While I agree with you that God is a God of justice and mercy, I believe it makes more sense that God can forgive as He pleases-since He is the One who makes the rules in the first place. According to Christianity, God needs to kill a human being to forgive sin. But according to Islam, you only need to kill your own _EGO_ - and turn back to God in sincere repentance - and He will forgive you out of His abundant grace & mercy. That makes more sense to me. More sense than believing that God would sacrifice an innocent person for the sake of guilty people-because that would be like a judge executing his own innocent son to let a group of street murderers go free. Would you accept that?…Of course not. Such a judge would clearly be unjust and immoral by anyone’s clear conscience & standard. Because we realize that the guilty deserve to pay for their OWN sins-which is exactly what our moral compass and the Bible itself teaches, such as Ezekiel 18 (please read the whole entire chapter) which is dedicated to refuting this idea. Not me, but the Bible. But on top of being unfair and un-Biblical, there are many other problems with the idea of sacrificial atonement: 1) Not only is it unjust, but it’s also UN-merciful: because if God demands blood to pay for sins, then there is no more room for mercy & forgiveness anymore, since the payment was already made. For example, would it make sense if you took a loan from a bank and the bank said “We forgive your loan” but then still demanded the full $10,000 payment?…Of course not. Because mercy/forgiveness means letting it go DESPITE the lack of full payment-which is impossible for God to do if He strictly demands blood (as you believe). So it’s a contradiction. 2) If Jesus died for our sins, then that means he paid the full price for our sins-right? Well, what is the price for our sins? It is Eternal Hellfire. That means if Jesus paid the full cost of sin, he would have to not only die, but also BURN in Hell for an eternity! Such a horrendous thought is unfortunately what this belief entails, logically speaking. And if Christ did not suffer for an eternity (and hence does not continue to suffer and burn now), then by your own standard this means he did NOT pay the full amount for sin-which means the atonement/sacrifice failed and was not successful! Unless however you wish to say that Christ paid only PART of the sin (and spent LESS than everlasting Hell)-which would be another big problem on its own. 3) Jesus himself never even TAUGHT the atonement! The core message of Jesus had nothing to do with death on a cross, but rather his actual LIFE teachings during his earthly ministry: where he preached about things like the worship of God alone, repentance to God, giving to the poor, loving one’s neighbor, preparing for the Kingdom of Heaven & Resurrection Day, etc. THESE were the teachings of Jesus. But I’m afraid it is Paul and the later Church who twisted, distorted, and corrupted Jesus’s message to make Christianity all about his death-and not about Christ’s actual teachings on earth, which was the main importance! So let us follow the faith & teachings OF Jesus, rather than a religion _ABOUT_ Jesus. 4) Jesus not only never made the atonement/death on the cross his main focal message, but he actively said things AGAINST the idea. For example: • Jesus said, “Now go and learn what this means: ‘I desire MERCY, NOT Sacrifice!’” ~ Matthew 9:13 (quoting Hosea 6:6, which teaches that God’s free mercy & forgiveness is FAR MORE important than sacrifices [including blood atonement]) • Jesus said, “…Forgive our transgressions, just as we forgive those who transgress against us.” ~ The Lord’s Prayer - Here Jesus clearly makes a comparison between GOD’s forgiveness of sins and how humans forgive people who owe them. When we forgive someone’s debt to us, do we still ask them for payment? Of course not-because forgiveness means letting it go. So according to Jesus, this is how God forgives. He searches the heart, looks at true repentance, and forgives whomever He pleases. And this is exactly what Islam teaches ❤️ And the list can go on and on, such as the fact that NONE of the ancient Biblical prophets taught the sacrifices atonement, yet their sins were forgiven (such as the entire city of Nineveh when Jonah preached to them! They did not sacrifice a single animal, yet God forgave them for their faith!) - So as we can see there are NUMEROUS Scriptural, historical, logical, and philosophical problems with the idea of Jesus’s alleged sacrifice & atonement, which he himself never even taught as his main message. Islam (‘Surrender to God’) therefore RESTORES and PROTECTS the original message & teachings of Jesus Christ (peace & blessings be upon him), which was about serving God and repenting to Him before Judgement Day arrives. The Qur’an is God’s final revelation to humanity, which confirms & explains the Bible, and makes all things clear ❤️ Please open your mind and heart and accept God Almighty and ALL of His messengers & revelations. Do not pick and choose. And accept God’s words, as well as the reason & logic that God has blessed you with an intelligent brain for. Such a thinking person cannot see all of these problems-and the lack of their teaching on the lips of Jesus himself-and yet remain in this belief sincerely. Unless they are too influenced & pressured by their community, church, and childhood upbringing. But let GOD be true, and every man false. The truth comes from your Lord. Peace.

[@revelation1790]

Islam's Allah does not beget. The Christian God sent His only begotten Son into the world. They both cannot be true. Investigate the resurrection. This is another point in which Islam and Christianity contradict each other. What happened to the crucified body? There is only one sensible explanation when all the evidence is considered.

[@charlestiraco8634]

@celestialknight2339 Thank you in kind. I don't understand how you're taking the side of a holy book that almost fully supports another holy book while at the same time telling you not to believe what that holy book is teaching all throughout the book. You certainly must have the understanding that the Old Testament Israelites were sacrificing animals for their blood to temporarily cover the people's sins. There needed to be a permanent solution to the blood sacrifices... God's son, Jesus. He willingly went to the cross out of love for his God and father and for the whole world, especially those who believe. The concept is woven through the entire Bible. God gave us the capability and mind to set up laws and judges and courtrooms... he demands justice be done. He doesn't just let things go. A just judge is going to set a punishment that will fit the crime... he's not letting it go. It doesn't make sense in our courts, and it won't make sense in his.

[@eddieyoung2104]

@@celestialknight2339 In regard to blood sacrifice and payment for sin, I thought the following might be helpful. Hebrews 9:22 says, 'And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission'. I know you don't accept Paul's writings, but I quote this just to sum up what the Old Testament and Law of Moses taught about blood sacrifice. I could also quote from Leviticus 17:11 which shows this idea: 'For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul'. The word 'atonement' here (Hebrew 'kaphar'), is the same word used in Genesis 6:14, where God instructs Noah to 'pitch' the ark within and without with pitch. Giving us the idea of covering something. And if we apply that to the sacrifices, it was the blood which made a covering for the soul. The life is said to be in the blood, and the blood is a covering for the life. So, when the blood of an animal was shed, it signified the life of the animal. And that life was given as a covering for the life of the human. Because due to sin, our life and blood is worthy to be shed. However, the problem with the animal sacrifice was that it only provided a temporary covering. Due to the fact that the animal itself was mortal. So, in order to get a long lasting result God provided the blood of a man who would live forever. That means, when we're covered by Jesus' blood, it isn't temporary like animal blood, but it lasts forever. So, the sin once taken away or covered is remembered no more. Which is why it says in Hebrews that 'Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many', as opposed to the repeated offering of animals. And again it says, 'every priest stands daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God' (Hebrews 10:11-12). So, when we talk about Jesus paying the price for our sins, this is reference to the blood of a sinless man, which only he could offer. His blood was the ransom price to redeem us. And his death was of course necessary in order to provide the blood. But, the price for sin was not eternal death, or what you might call 'hellfire'. Neither was he taking our punishment, which is a common view. Because we all still die. Isaiah 53 may be quoted to show that Jesus took our punishment, where he says, 'he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities'. But, what this actually means is that Jesus was wounded in the process of doing what only he could do. Having his blood shed for our transgressions. It doesn't mean that we deserved to die, and Jesus died instead. But, that his death was the only way our sins could be covered.

[@sulongenjop7436]

In Revelation, Jesus claimed that he is God. Only God is the first and the last, the Alpha and the Omega although he is the Son of God. Therefore, the Book of Revelation reveals to us the Trinity of God.😀

[@eddieyoung2104]

Jesus is the first begotten from the dead, the head of the church, the beginning of the new creation. That makes him the first, and the Alpha. But, it doesn't make him part of a triune God. It actually points to him being like us. Because he is the first of many sons of God. '‭For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren' (Romans 8:29). Believers in him are the many brethren, of which he is the first. Which makes him our eldest brother. He is truly one of us, which is why he calls his father 'my God' (Revelation 3:12). Because the Father is his God just as he is our God.

[@sulongenjop7436]

@@eddieyoung2104 It would be bullsh*t and wasting time for all christians to believe and worship Jesus if you think he is just like yourself! 😀

[@charlestiraco8634]

​@@sulongenjop7436You should read the Bible and then come in here.

[@sulongenjop7436]

@@charlestiraco8634 Do you agree God the Father had secret sex with Mary?

[@taibiservent]

Your tradition is blinding you, and you’re going against God the father, because he made Jesus Lord and Christ furthermore God authorized him to be our king and Messiah so if you wanna refute God‘s plan, you’re going up against the Almighty Jesus is a man who is glorified and at the right hand of God, it just says that in the Bible, no spin

[@jgerboy8004]

I'M A PROUD CHRISTIAN ( ONENESS ) Alhamdulillah (Thanks GOD) Allahu Akbar God is Great NOTHING is impossible in HIM HE IS ABLE HE IS HUMBLE we Christians are SAVE BY THE GRACE OF GOD NOT in our WORKS Alhamdulillah ( Thanks GOD ) for all shorts in the GLORY OF GOD because of our SIN for GOD so love ❤️ the world 🌎 He SEND His SON DIE in the Cross ✝️ for the ATONEMENT of our SIN Subhan Allah ( Glory to GOD ) in Christianity we called Allah ( Our FATHER ) & we are called HIS CHILDREN😊 Alhamdulillah ( Thanks GOD ) infairness in Islam you are called the SLAVES of Al__h

[@SoftBreadSoft]

You are embarrassing yourself. It's almost like you don't have any scripture

[@andrewferg8737]

@@SoftBreadSoft "You are embarrassing yourself. It's almost like you don't have any scripture"... It's exactly like you have no Christ, no scripture, no history, no tradition, no doctrine, and no authority. Stop pedaling your anti-Christ nonsense and leave the little ones alone. May God rebuke you. Repent and believe the gospel. "on the eve of the passover Yeshu was hanged on a tree... he has practiced magic and enticed Israel to apostasy” (Babylonian Talmud c. 70 AD) "they sing in alternate verses a hymn to Christ as to a god... then reassemble to partake of food - but food of an ordinary and innocent kind” (Letters of Pliny the Younger to Emperor Trajan c. 112 AD). "the Christians, you know, worship a man to this day-the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account” (Death of Peregrinus by Lucian of Samosata c. 165 AD)

[@lemostd9727]

The God of the Bible is totally different from the god of Islam. Pls read yr Bible to get clarity on this. There is one God the Father who sent His son Jesus Christ the Messiah for the salvation of all mankind.

[@SoftBreadSoft]

@@lemostd9727 Pretty sure he is trying to sarcastically mock unitarians. Proverbs 9:7 7 Whoever corrects a scoffer (mocker) gets himself abuse, and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury Don't cast your pearls at swine and so on.

[@andrewferg8737]

4th Century Deformation (21st CR) is not Christian.

[@SoftBreadSoft]

Weird how you guys bring doctrine and ridicule and no scripture.

[@andrewferg8737]

@@SoftBreadSoft "Weird how you guys bring doctrine and ridicule and no scripture."--- Scripture and doctrine are products of The Church. Ridicule is the preoccupation of heretics.

[@andrewferg8737]

Scripture and doctrine are both products of The Church. Ridicule is the product of heresy.

[@andrewferg8737]

@@SoftBreadSoft Scripture and doctrine are both products of The Church. Ridicule is the product of heresy.

[@SoftBreadSoft]

​@@andrewferg8737 Doctrine and history is irrelevant, and scripture is a product of God and His apostles and prophets. Yes, the body of Christ, the church, wherever there are two or more of us.

[@DontYouWantToLiveForever]

God gave the Revelation to His Son. The Son gave the Revelation to His angel. The angel gave the Revelation to John. The angel said he received the Revelation from the Lord God of the holy prophets. Jesus is the Lord God. Revelation 1:1 KJV - *_The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,_* … and *_he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:_* Revelation 22:6 KJV … *_the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel_* to shew unto his servants … Revelation 22:16 KJV - *_I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you_*

[@eddieyoung2104]

John 17:10 shows that whatever belongs to the Father belongs also to the son, and vice versa. That's why Jesus can call God's angel, his angel. And if Jesus sends the angel, then automatically the Father sends it as well because it belongs to him also. All we're seeing here is the Father and Jesus working in cooperation, and sharing the same resources. Therefore there's no necessity to equate Jesus to his father.

[@DontYouWantToLiveForever]

@@eddieyoung2104 John 1:1 KJV *_In the beginning was the Word,_* and the Word was with God, *_and the Word was God._* Revelation 19:13 KJV And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: *_and his name is called The Word of God._*

[@SoftBreadSoft]

" the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants" "Which God gave unto Him." You answered your own question, brother.

[@MikeHillman-n2c]

Silly. And wrong

[@acts2583]

What he is saying in this video makes perfect sense to me.

[@SmalltimR]

@@acts2583 And me as well In-fact, we could say that it makes perfect sense for a great many people ...

[@jesusvdelgado5401]

Course, Revelations is a trinitarian book... It was, it is and it will be....

[@davidstearman2009]

To make a general statement like that requires solid evidence of which you produced none. Explain yourself.

[@mikehutton3937]

@@davidstearman2009 Deut 6:4. Matthew 28:9. John 1:1-18. Philp 2:5-11. Acts 5:3-4. There's plenty of other verses to go with this too. There is one God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Jesus (God the Son) emptied Himself in becoming human, setting aside his omniescence. This is why only the Father knows when the end times come. It's why Jesus calls the Father his God. This is spelled out in Phillippians 2, which is quite possibly the earliest recorded Christian hymn we have. There's the start. It's all scripturally based. Unless you don't believe the Bible counts as solid evidence.