Reverse Diet Debate Follow-Up: My Take On It

[@TheRealJanosAudron]

This channel is highly underrated. Thanks for the information, Jeff. This treasure trove of information has definitely made my contest prep fairly easier to endure. Respect.

[@JeffNippard]

Really happy to hear that Bryan. Appreciate it!

[@trainlikeahmed9979]

not anymore.

[@RobLipsett]

Great take on it Jeff ! Solid info as always

[@JeffNippard]

+Rob Lipsett Thanks Rob! Really appreciate it man

[@Hiddins1]

Coming across Rob in the comments 🕴

[@connordolence520]

Can’t believe this is Jeff only three years ago!

[@jordangibson705]

You are swiftly becoming one of my favorite channels Jeff. I love a good science approach! Tell your bud Ian he needs to get back on the KZbin game! NBB was my favorite channel back in the day!

[@PattyLifts]

Great to hear your perspective bro! #Strcng

[@brandonboon4597]

damn the glo up from you two

[@attardcoachingsystems9977]

From a physiological point of view,the recommendation of jumping straight into a surplus is likely ideal for the reason of trying to reverse all those negative adaptations associated with getting lean, along with the habits which tend to surface. However, I think jumping someone to maintenance vs going straight to a surplus would also have to consider ones psychology. Some people would want to keep "some what lean", whereas others will rather feel better faster and sacrifice losing some shredz. Therefore the approach will defiantly have to be tailored to each individual. Excellent information from this video.

[@willpaget-brown6410]

I loved the debate, thanks for taking the time to do this. I did find that Layne's point about using reverse dieting as a way to deal with the people that were really struggling with the concept of weight gain after a show/not being constantly stage lean a bit of a strange answer. One reason you have a coach is to manage expectations and to let you know what is realistic and what will keep you safe. Maintaining the deficit or even going to your new maintenance at contest weight is dangerous. It really comes down to health. It is unlikely that getting contest ready is healthy for numerous reasons and it should be the coaches job to get the client healthy again as quickly as possible. If the client does not want to then the coach should refer them out to someone who deals with eating disorders because that is going to escalate very quickly. I really don't think that's a safe reason to have someone reverse diet. A much better option would be discussing the topic of weight gain post-show at the beginning of the prep so the client knows what to expect, rather than trying to adjust to their unrealistic expectations after the fact. If someone isn't comfortable with it before the prep, then the coach should not take them on as a client because there is too much risk.

[@willpaget-brown6410]

+Will Paget-Brown just finished the video and you basically made my same point. Cheers!

[@omarkelleher737]

Great vid Jeff enjoyed hearing your take on the debate! Definitly one of the best fitness channels out there, your content is always on point!

[@BigManJevnikar]

Old video but still watching in 2024. Good advice. Reverse dieting just doesnt work for me. Its always hard watching the shreds fade away, but one must realize its NEEDED

[@steelfalconx2000]

I think everyone agrees that going back to maintenance asap is fine. The issue is that maintenance could be much lower than you really want, so reverse dieting pushes your body's maintenance calories back to a point where maintenance no longer feels like dieting without much or any weight gain. I think this is more important for people who are obese than for competitors who would want some fat regain.

[@SigourneyAkuah]

Jeff this follow up is SO DOPE!!! So clear, so helpful and so so usable THANK YOU for putting all of this out 💯👍🏽

[@JeffNippard]

My pleasure! Thank you

[@BrandonConceicao]

Man you used great logic to explain your reasoning. I was able to learn a lot from this summary of the podcast

[@whynow4306]

I think I see one problem with your graphic description. And that is if you are talking about pro bodybuilder for example cutting from 12%BF to 6%BF yeah it is as you said. And there is no real reason why not to get straight to 12%BF (still low but at least more healthy than 6%BF for sure). No reason to make that transition 6 months long. But if we talk about normal guy lets say 20% BF and he cuts to 12% BF (enough for him to look good). He would do much better on Reverse Diet, becasue he wants to keep 12% all year around, dont want to binge in 1 month back to 20% BF but at the same time he doesnt want to eat 1600 cals where he ended up at the end of his diet. So now he has very good opportunity to: Fix his metabolism and at the same time not shock his body with too much cals at once to climb back to 20%. His Goal is to MAINTAIN his 12% BF and eat MAINTAIN calories for his new body composition which reverse diet will help him find. Of course I would add at the beginning maybe few hundred cals to start with and then slowly add more. At least that is my take on it. :)

[@JeffNippard]

+Peter Malovec yeah, I agree that that would be a different case. And you're right to point that out :) However, in that case, it would still make most sense to get back to maintenance asap, but I would be way more conservative with the weight gaining strategy.

[@whynow4306]

Yeah, but I think at the end of the cut your new maintenance calories are much lower than they should be for that body compositon and bodyweight and possibly activity level. Because of slower metabolism after diet. And I just think it needs more time for metabolism to catch up. So ending cut on 1600 (but you should be eating 2200 with that new weight). I would not jump straight to 2200 because I think you would gain weight and mostly fat (because metabolism is slower). But slowly adding callories lets say 100 a week would help body to adapt better without extra fat and weight gain. But I think it all comees down to preferences and how you as individual can prevent binging:)

[@BossofBosses111]

You're making an argument to something that this debate isn't about. The recovery vs reverse diet debate is about CONSTANT COMPETITORS. Those that diet down to 5-8 percent body fat. If you diet down to 12 that's still a somewhat healthy BF percentage so they wouldn't need to recovery diet. They should just lean bulk at that point

[@lmallen54]

I just commented on Robin's channel how I love that both of your provide great educational content! I will also be making my own motivational calendar in the near future! Keep the great info coming!!

[@JeffNippard]

Thanks Leah! 😊 much appreciated

[@VanAllenVlogs]

Subscribed my brother. Thank you for the value!

[@kalm5076]

I have a hard time keeping myself under control after the show, I have ended up binging and over shooting for the last like 3 years. I think this year I will cut down SLOWLY to a normal 10 ish % bodyfat and then just practice maintaining a weight. I can cut easily when there is that goal/timeline in place but I tend to just jump back up to a higher bodyfat than I prefer. Hopefully breaking the cycle of aggressive cutting then binging this year will help solve my problems!

[@Metalkake]

I feel kinda like reverse dieting is quite similar to just bulking leanly. In a sense of gradually increasing ones calories in order to push the caloric threshold. Any thoughts? By the way your content is awesome! Keep up the good work and hail from Finland o/ !

[@Razephon]

You have some great content and excellent insights! This channel should be huge!

[@pedrog.io.]

awesome video and info as always!! your channel is one of the best sources of knowledge in terms of natural bodybuilding!!

[@AnjuliMack]

Love this video 💕

[@TheGiraffebrah]

Yours and Nsima's channels are like the hidden gems of the fitness community lol

[@oneknife4121]

The graphic really pulls it togther nicely well done.

[@szotakandrei]

haven't listened to the original debate, even though I shared the shit out of it I agree with your points and greatly admire your balanced views

[@GhostScopePC]

Agreed, go into a surplus asap! If you have a psychological problem with gaining fat...well, do it slower in this case, if this prevents you from dieting back down. But there is no way around gaining fat. ;) Great debate + very god follow-up, greetings from Germany ;)

[@JeffNippard]

Exactly. Thanks! Cheers

[@gregfields011]

What would your advice be for someone who is not getting stage shredded? Maybe just 9-10% for summer or something like that.

[@Nathaniel_Scott]

Have any studies shown that muscle will grow in this linear way, regardless of how fast or slow fat is gained? That is a really improtant point to the method that Jeff you advocate for here. Great video as always man.

[@markcarson8683]

Great information jeff, keep up the good work

[@ManuelCruz-py5sx]

Funny a lot of what you said were exactly the changes I made to help me recover my "anorexic mindset" after loosing 42kilos and being too attached to my abbs to actually make gains or at least start on a healthier path. That said I dont believe people know yet how to deal with people with anorexia or anorexic tendencies. I never experienced that scary deep anorexia stage, so I can't tell I'm 100% sure about what im going to say: but I think the best chance to deal successfully with it is exactly to look at eating with logic and not emotion. Looking at the numbers on the scale, seeing and feeling the signs (for example I started eating at maintenance once I figured I wasn't going to get leaner (I had a 6 pack) while maintaining good health. Then i started upping the calories untill my joints stopped hurting, then upped a bit more untill i felt like my strength in the gym was constant or progressing and not fluctuating, I ended up clean bulking during a whole year and got much better in strength and looks). What I'm trying to say is that logic, research and understanding of how food and exercise affects the body was what helped me. It has been an interesting journey and from my experience research and understanding is what helped me and still does with the problems I faced and keep facing (anorexia, plateaus, injuries, form, overreaching, effort management...).

[@hunter_c99]

Is the reverse diet only applicable to competitors? What about someone whose maintenance is 2,500 cal. They have been dieting for a long time 10 months plus and is eating 1800 calories and doing 20 minutes of cardio 3-4 times a week. Their goal is to still get leaner, but their fat loss has stopped. Would they need to increase or decrease calories at this point?

[@zazzfn]

I totally agree with you jeff!

[@Topcoachdino]

Great debate and summary bro. I think the most important points are summarized below Contest weight isn't sustainable Coaches need to be accountable post show Coaches need a post show strategy Strategies vary coach to coach There is no "one way" just have a plan to avoid a bodyfat overshoot There is no metabolic damage and bodyfat overshoot is always a result of having no plan or an unsustainable one post competition. Support is important post show My thoughts🤔👌🏻

[@Nathaniel_Scott]

One thing that seems to be brushed over somewhat is that for anyone doing a minicut, or just dieting to be beach lean or for an event etc, in this case a slower reverse is a much better idea in my opinion. Though for sure if you are post comp you need to bump up some amount at least straight away.

[@cmfitnessfitpappa6537]

Great takeaways Jeff!

[@danableslee]

Very glad to hear your views and summary of the debate, I felt crappy and weak for a long time during my slow and gradual reverse but psychologically I'm glad I did it that way as I feel like I've maintained my leanness. I'm definitely in no rush to cut again because of this experience which I think ,long term, is healthier for my body. As a female, if I gained a ton of fat quickly I'd probably be wanting to cut again by now and controlled or not is that really any different to yo-yo dieting?

[@billionairegenius]

Dana St John hey can I pls ask u how slow did u go up? Was it weekly 20g carbs, 5 g fat or more Aggressive or even more slow than that? That's the numbers I went up w each week last year when reversing and I gained too much weight so it defeated the purpose of the diet in first place. So now I'm even more a believer in v slow reverse for women who want to stay lean enough and not diet again unless for a show.

[@danableslee]

My coach gave me guidlines on how slow I would reverse based on how quickly I was gaining weight each week plus my energy levels. I think it was slower then 20g carbs per week from memory, and I felt very hungry and wanted more then I was given. It did vary each week, and became a little more agressive to start off as I was still loosing on my reverse. I followed James Wilsons programmes and reverese diet principles hes very helpful, you can follow him on Facebook for exellent tips and advice.

[@David-Iglesias]

Already listened to the debate twice. Nothing better to do I guess lol.

[@JeffNippard]

LOL I think it's time well wasted. Thanks David man

[@hamooon]

+DLI Fit same

[@MrRossT1]

+DLI Fit Listen to it while doing cardio! ;)

[@KanekinFitness]

great vid

[@megaprimegamer1184]

Excellent excellent video. As a normal person and not competing for shows, I now know what exactly I need to do when I was thinking I had to endure more painful weeks of reverse dieting. Happy to know I can increase my intake by another 1000 cals without feeling guilty lol.

[@StyrbjornStarke]

Lat pull in, such an underrated exercise.

[@copernicus99]

Jeff, I'm surprised that your rep ranges are so high >15 in this video. Ever try a lower range like 6-10?

[@jacquesmoussafir7160]

Always insightful! Do you coach just for lifestyle or is it specifically for competing ?

[@anandalye7115]

Hey man, question about mini cuts when trying to reverse diet during the off season. Should I do it for no? Seems like doing frequent mini cuts would get in the way of trying to increase calories. But then again shorter mini cuts (2-3 weeks) may not affect metabolism that much? What's your take on that?

[@MsGlamgirlprincess]

Hi Jeff, new subbie here. Some questions after watching your videos. Do you have any videos for the average person who lost weight and not an actual competitor or bodybuilder. These videos seem to be focused on competitors. I recently have reached my goal weight but I am now not sure if I should go straight to my maintenance calories or the actual reverse diet since I'm not a competitor.

[@xd-yf5gq]

Yeah the slow reverse diet made no sense to me either.

[@jesustorres4725]

Is a reverse diet recommend for the general population that is looking to maintain there new weight? After a fat loss phase.

[@JeffNippard]

+Jesus Torres good question. But it still makes most sense to return to new maintenance calories and then try increasing slowly from there.

[@jesustorres4725]

Okay. Thank you!

[@tiffanywhalen22]

How would you determine your new maintenance caloric intake?

[@christiemcdonnell4170]

Tiffany Whalen did you ever find out?

[@stephanieh6455]

Great video... Im just wondering maybe I missed this but regarding post show jumping to your "new maintenance" how do you know what your new maintenance is without adding slowly until you maintain? Or do u just guess then make adjustments over the weeks? TIA :)

[@JeffNippard]

I would say the best way to find it would be a simple guess and check. Or you could look at your rate of loss at the end of the diet. Suppose you're losing 0.5 lbs/week on average. That means you're probably in a ballpark weekly deficit of 3500*0.5 = 1750 cal per week. 1750/7 = 250 kcal per day deficit. So you would simply add 250 kcal to your current calories and that would be a pretty good estimate of your new maintenance.

[@bobjenkins4925]

I thought the guy at 0:59 was doing landmine press with two fucking barbells lol

[@JeffNippard]

lmao it really does look like that

[@JeffNippard]

Landmine press, what a classic background exercise

[@GuitarDude1]

Either way you're going to put on fat but ideally the concept of reverse diet sounds good in a sense of normalizing the hormonal imbalances while putting on minimal fat but I would say genetics do play a part in that and is not a "one size fits all" situation

[@15nate]

Jeff, this assumes that once you put the cap on your body weight, you are able to gain muscle without gaining any additional fat for the entire phase of regaining lost muscle. This essentially means that one can recomp so effectively that he or she is drastically outgaining fat accumulation with muscle while eating maintenance calories. I'm sure you know the laws of thermodynamics and understand why this seems abstract. Regardless, If it is so effective to maintain your weight and gain muscle at a constant rate, then why ever go above maintenance calories with that rationale?

[@JeffNippard]

Good point! I think that the X factor here is muscle memory. You're not going to be laying down fresh new muscle for the most part, simply regaining muscle that you lost throughout the course of the cut. So yeah, I do think you'd see some pretty remarkable body recomposition. Once you've regained the lost muscle, now it would be wise to enter a surplus and start slowly gaining (or maybe run a minicut first and then start gaining if you overshot a little). Does that clear it up or are you still skeptical?

[@myhoopingheart]

The debate video was one of the best vids I've seen on youtube, so thank you. I like the idea of the 10% weight cap. Do you think it should be 10% for females as well?

[@JeffNippard]

Yeah, I think 10% is a good ballpark. If anything, for women I'd suggest being just a touch more conservative; so maybe something like 8-10%

[@attardcoachingsystems9977]

Haha, I wrote my below comment literally at the 12.30min mark. I pressed play to watch the rest and you pretty much cover the same thing.

[@patrickbarney7054]

Hi Jeff, throughout this video you recommended that coaches should push their clients to go right back to their "maintenance", however you never even brought up the idea of metabolic adaptation (I.E. - many bikini competitors are in a caloric deficit for extended periods of time and their maintenance calories are reduced as a result). Do you have a video discussing this? I am new to the channel and love the content, however, I am a coach (Yes, I do have a an educational background in EXSC/Nutrition/Coaching/Physiology) and am a proponent of reverse dieting for this reason. IMO, it is better to be safe than sorry. Please reply, thanks Jeff Nippard and keep up the quality content!

[@hamooon]

Jeff, what if you don't have an off or on season. You just want to be sub 10 (no striations on glutes. but lean faced) with as much food as possible. Is slowly reverse dieting a good way to test if you have one of these adaptive metabolisms?

[@hamooon]

+hamooon never mind, answer was in the comment section. cheers

[@JeffNippard]

Nope! Still straight to new maintenance

[@Classificationz]

Ok so how would you find your new caloric maintenance ?

[@jw-pl5xr]

I think an accurate way would be to calculate it based on the amount of weight loss one would experience during the last 2 weeks or so of dieting. For example imagine one eating 1600kcal/day and in the last 2 weeks of cutting the person lost 2lbs, this would mean the person had a 2*3500=7000kcal deficit (as 1lb of fat contains 3500kcal). So 7000kcal/14days = 500 kcal/day of a deficit so the new tdee of the person would be 1600+500 = 2100kcal.

[@jamesj4998]

Great video Jeff :) just one question: in that fat/muscle gain graph, would there not be significantly less muscle gain if one was to get fat quickly and maintain that weight?

[@JeffNippard]

A good consideration. I think that in the fast vs slow fat gain conditions you'd see different rates of muscle gain, but, my hypothesis would be that the fast fat gain approach would allow for a faster, not slower, rate of muscle gain. This is because you're more recovered, heavier (and likely stronger as a result) and more likely to be net anabolic. So what you'd likely see is body recomposition at your weight cap OR a gradual increase in weight (which I left out as a consideration for the sake of simplicity).

[@jamesj4998]

+Jeff Nippard thanks for the reply! loved the debate also!

[@jessicawilson9047]

Seriously you missed the point! The reason for a slow reverse is so you don't shock your body and gain a shit ton of fat. Yes you can have an untracked meal post show just be mindful and not binge. You sill have to have macros and add slowly. Guys have a way easier time than woman because woman will store way more fat. So probably more important for woman to reverse diet in a more stringent way than men.

[@w1cked001]

you don't get fat on maintenance calories. maintenance=maintain. taking 20 wks to get back there vs 2 doesn't makesense.

[@billionairegenius]

Sam Dasgupta yeah but how do we really know what Maintenance calories are? Do u assume it's your refeed calories or what? For the average woman not cutting for a show, but just for looking great-i can't see how reverse dieting is not relevant.

[@davek2906]

Right, but isn't the point is your metabolism has adjusted to the longterm cut to create for you a "new maintenance" that is lower than the old maintenance? If that's the case, then bumping your calories back up to your old maintenance or even a "new" maintenance you calculate online (that doesn't take into consideration the metabolic effect of the longterm cut) will cause unnecessary fat gain.

[@weave4181]

finally another bullshit concept from Layne debunked, that reminds me the ''BCAA between meals'' era. Thx to Lyle and Eric as always.