Review & Comparison: Hornby Re-Tooled MK3 Coaches compared to the 1999 Tooled Versions

I'm a long term fan of Hornby's Class 43 HST and Mk3 coaching stock. Hornby did a re-tooling a few years ago based on moving from slam door to sliding door based coaches for a limit set of liveries and these included some added detail and kinematic couplers. In 2022, Hornby starting rolling out retooled MK3s across all supported liveries. How do these new coaches compare to the previous generation and are they worth upgrading to if you already own the older coaches?
00:00 - Introduction
01:17 - 1999 vs 2022 Comparison
12:59 - Close-up Views
14:48 - Running Session
17:41 - Summary
19:08 - Scoring
21:07 - Recommendation
Take the poll on coach lighting on the community page: www.youtube.com/@EuviRail/com...
Link to full running session 1999 Tooling: • Hornby R3958 FGW Class...
Link to full running session 2022 Tooling: • Re-tooled Hornby Class...

[@Andy1962-in-Kinross]

Another good review. I recently purchased 9xHornby Midland Pullman MK3 coaches and the matching Class 43 train pack all new items for less than £500. Expensive yes but compared to rrp something of a bargain. I fitted the magnetic couplings which came with the coaches and was very impressed. Bizarrely, Hornby didn’t supply magnetic couplings with the train pack. A wee bit disappointing but managed to find a pack of the couplings online. Now fitted the couplings work very well even with the ‘dummy car’ heading the train. I was so impressed with them I decided to buy more couplings for my Class 91s. I found the couplings work well with the newer 91s released this year, Flying Scotsman & Battle of Britain memorial Flight. However, I also have a GNER 91 and the Lest We Forget 91 which were released in 2022. I kept having derailments when these models were pulling the 9 rake MK4s and couldn’t see why when my other 2023 release 91s operated so well. It would seem that Hornby have marginally tweaked the newer 91 models so that there is wee bit more clearance so that the magnetic couplings work fine. On the older 2022 models there is marginally less clearance which causes buffer lock between the loco and the first coach. Quite frustrating! The only immediate remedy was to use the standard couplings supplied by Hornby on the 91s and the first coach. All the other coaches & DVT have the magnetic couplings fitted and work fine. I only have a small 8’x5’ layout so it’s important for me to be able to remove / add stock to the layout with minimum hassle. Just wanted to highlight the issues I have experienced to hopefully help others.

[@euviga]

Thanks for that Andy. I have to say I was tempted by the £500 offer on the Midland Pullman myself. That's a good tip on the Class 91 as I expect people could easily get caught with that. The magnetic couplers really do make a world of difference.

[@stephenchambers5900]

Another good review. I’ve bought more of the heavily discounted old coaches and added the Hunt magnetic couplers creating a nice set. Still great runners. May look at the heavily discounted Sliding door scotrail or cross country coaches out there due to over supply

[@EuviRail]

Thanks Stephen. Yeah, the old coaches were still very good runners. Adding Hunt couplers should make a nice difference even on the older ones. £20 for an MK3 is hard to resist if they'll work on your layout or if you have a future re-spray project in mind!

[@paulisnotonfire]

I bought a few of the Pullman MK3s, they're really good coaches for what they are. The magnetic couplers work excellently and made me want to upgrade a few rakes of other stock to them. I will say that I really enjoy the roar that they make when they're running around. Cheers

[@euviga]

Absolutely, and those Pullman MK3s are lovely coaches. Thanks for sharing.

[@Mapplewell_Park]

That was a great video and review. The new versions are a big step up in terms of detail. Especially around the bogies. I dropped a comment on your pole….. my current Hornby Mk2’s close up let my new tooling Bachmann 47 down a little. Lighting matters to me, and I see you dropped in the Bachmann DCC Mk2’s they really do look like a step up. Budget the only thing holding me back at the moment!!

[@EuviRail]

The Bachmann DCC are probably the definitive lighted coaches you can buy but they are crazy money alright. Thanks for voting/commenting.

[@chrisking5355]

Thanks for heads up on bargains in previous post, managed to get the Class 43 GWR Castle set for a much more attractive price from TMC

[@EuviRail]

I was nearly tempted myself by the TMC Castle set. I have the older version.

[@lucitonstjames3925]

Nice video Eugene. The 1999 coaches are not really Hornby models. back in 1981 it was known that Airfix where working on some mk3 coaches. Then palitoy took them over , then it got put on the back burner & then palitoy went bust. What was not known was how far Airfix had got with the tooling. The David Boyle era Dapol inheriting all the models,/ tooling, then as Hornby bought up the David Boyle era Dapol with the most notable models such as the class 03 / 42/ & 45 going to Bachmann, unfortunately the class 56 going to Hornby. Then Hornby announced the move to China & the first product announcement was scale length mk3 coaches, these appearing very quickly after the move & lo & behold the mk3's where the Airfix tooling , so many giveaways as to their parentage via the method of construction , the wheels & the coupling mounts. The immaculate running quality of the airfix 2d's replicated with the mk3's. One trick that you can pull is to fit the very small airfix tension locks off the 2d's to the mk3's & this gives you close coupling that even the kinematics / nems cant match. 1970's tech doing the job. Usual trick of the proven Lima HST power cars at the business end. The main issue with the models given they are Mk3 hst coaches was the lack of the TGS, Hornby steadfastly refusing the tool for the TGS & so we where faced with having these coaches but then having to not bother with the TGS or use the Lima one , which has its many issues, i bought a set of GNER ones & with the best will in the world the Lima tgs just didnt work with them ,granted Lima & Hornbys paint finish was almost identical. Then Hornby getting lucky in 2004 when they bought the Lima tooling & integrated the Lima TGS , still not ideal as the roof vent at either end are different sizes & the ends having a different feel, only thing Hornby doing was to give it flusher glazing. The SD mk3's are half decent models bedevilled with Hornbys lack of sense / understanding of how kinematics work & the cost cutting with the cast wheels / thin paint layer. The HO makers have been using kinematics since the very early 1980's on 26m length coaches , with the gangways nyon touching & the ability to go round rad 1 curves. the obsession with 'details' such as the etc sockets / steps meaning you have this half baked kinematic housing thats reliant upon the bodyshell doing all the work , for kinematics to work smoothly they require the bogie to have a notch in the frame to then nudge the fitting so it gives a smoother entry & withdrawl from the tight curves, Bachmann nailing it on their mk 1 coaches. So you have the god awful noisy wheels & the clicking kinematic / getting stuck. I bought 9 of the SD coaches & i have to say , ill take the Airfix origin 99 ones every time , better wheels & better couplings. I can live without the eth sockets. As for Mk3 coaches , the Jouef Mk3a from 1977 still captures the look of these sleek coaches in a way that the new tool ones still struggle to do. I picked up the sd's for £25-30 each to build a ScotRail & a XC set, sacked the Hornby power cars off ,£362 for Hornby ones was always a non starter so i used Lima ones vinlyed / painted up to suit. £45 Lima power cars are still the gold standard for me. if a company cant get kinematics designed properly god help them with anything complicated.

[@EuviRail]

Many thanks for that. The Jouef MK3s did capture the look alright. Per the chequered history, it all points to the benefit of someone doing a new bottom up design.

[@lucitonstjames3925]

@@EuviRailJust wish Hornby would do a proper job of a full mk3 coach project to cover the class 252 / mk3a prototypes with the different door design / gangways , then the production mk3a 's the 3bs's & the 3b bfo's. Then with the class 253 / 254 HSTs to make the TRUK kitchen cars that where in the original formations with the TRSB vehicles.

[@97SEMTEX]

The new bogey design is what clinches it for me the kinematic couplings and the extra boogie detail make this a far superior model in my eyes.

[@EuviRail]

It makes a huge difference alright.

[@matthewneleigh567]

I would like to get the new-tooled coaches in FGW Dynamic Lines when available, BUT... I'd want them to improve the livery, as applying the stripes as a transfer as they did on the older tooled coaches is, to my mind, not acceptable.

[@EuviRail]

100% agree Matthew. Thanks for commenting.

[@lucysblade]

I picked up some GWR 1999 tooling coaches from Hattons for £25. Kernow had some other liveries for £20. Definitely worth a look at that price.

[@EuviRail]

Hard to complain at those prices, even as donor stock for re-painting.

[@AllensTrains]

I did think what you thought about batteries in rolling stock. But then I bought a Bachmann London Underground set. I am bound to say, the batteries last a very long time - 5 years or more. Batteries have the advantage that that the coach lights don't flicker going over point work, Another problem is that unless you drive the lights through a decoder on DCC you've got the fact you have additional circuits running off your DCC command station, which is undesirable in that it increases the current draw! These new coaches from Hornby look the part. Thanks for uploading.

[@timpeel4386]

200+ hours use off battery and switching on/off via wand. Agree with flicker via DCC and current draw. Also if run by DCC you would need a decoder. Seen maglight for less than £15 each

[@EuviRail]

Thanks for that. I do fear the 1mA current the Maglight would consume to achieve 200 hrs is too low for acceptable lighting. My experience has been that 5mA is closer to the optimum before flickering becomes an issue. My Maglight didn't arrive in time for the review but is due tomorrow so I'll see how it works out versus my reworked Class 800 lighting (the original Class 800 lighting is dim). Interesting that a lot of folks in the poll are more interested in pre-fitted lighting. More than I expected.

[@AllensTrains]

@@EuviRail The lights in the London S-stock model turn on when the train moves and turn off when it is left stationary for a while. So unlike the maglite system the batteries will not be exhausted very quickly! Train Tech Automatic Coach Lighting - Cool White/Standard HO/OO Gauge TTCL1 costs £20.33 a coach from Jadlam. These lights are quite bright, but not visible in videoing conditions. I think if you want brighter lights, you make up your own fitting two strips and two batteries per coach!

[@StormmyStormmy]

Hi, great review of these coaches, Hornby are very good at giving you a lot less for your money when they can, like you i find their magnetic controlled lighting a poor option, Bachmann give you the option of adding lighting to a lot of their coaches with bogie pick ups, their coaches are better in general although they are more expensive to buy, if Bachmann did coaches that matched Hornby's class 43 HST's i would buy them, if Bachmann ever produce a class 43 HST it would cost an arm and a leg in my opinion, they do have a HST prototype coming out next year which consist of a power car only at the moment, i'm sure they could produce a dummy car if the demand was great, I tend to wait for sales of Hornby coaches as i feel they are very overpriced for what they are, thanks for sharing.

[@EuviRail]

Thanks again Andy for sharing. Just realised I replied to you from my other channel.

[@clipperrail8988]

I got a set of Scotrail Inter7city mk3s on release at £30 each. Superb coaches and well priced, the glossy livery application is very authentic. Given Bachmann’s crazily priced Mk2s the Hornby coaches are a bargain, particularly as they are often available discounted as low as £25.

[@tjfSIM]

Agreed. £25 is an incredible price, even £30 is much more reasonable than the crazy prices we're seeing for Bachmann coaches.

[@EuviRail]

The Scotrail is one of the better livery implementations alright and £30 is a great price for them.

[@nzylo]

Ive bought a rake of these new releases by hornby and also a rake of mk3a’s by Oxford rail. Even though hornby have bought out Oxford, the Oxford’s have better wheelsets and better quality plastic used for the bogies. They also have copper wheel contacts for lighting rather than a battery compartment. The hornby’s feel sturdier and bodies have a cleaner look. Its a shame we cant have the best of both worlds for the perfect model.

[@EuviRail]

100%. I thought that Hornby would have done this alright. I have the Oxford MK3a coaches and do like them apart from the out of box failures on the coupling springs.

[@James-ih4gz]

Lots of announcements this weekend

[@James-ih4gz]

Also marks models have announced they are doing there first ever steam engine a GNR I Jinty done by Hornby for them.

[@EuviRail]

Hi James, alas circumstance over the last two weeks mean I'm confined to home this weekend. I've been keeping an eye on the Accurascale announcements alright and they'll be giving a discount at the show which might have been useful as well. Enjoy the day of you get there!

[@James-ih4gz]

And irm are now doing turf wagons that bullied made for Irish rail back in the 1950s.

[@EuviRail]

I need to get my pre-order in for a few of these.

[@James-ih4gz]

Will you be at the south Dublin model railway show some good deals there for models

[@greathorton]

Where are this 2022 version model manufactured?

[@EuviRail]

I believe all Hornby's 00 gauge locos and rolling stock come from China.

[@greathorton]

@@EuviRail Thanks. I heard some news from somewhere that they moved their supply chain to Europe.

[@Andy1962-in-Kinross]

I think some Airfix models are now being manufactured in the UK but all Hornby items are manufactured in China in at least three different factories which has led to many of the livery colour variations and differing levels of quality that have been widely criticised. It’s to be hoped that Hornby will address such issues sooner rather than later!

[@EuviRail]

@@Andy1962-in-Kinross Thanks Andy. Yes, some of the Airfix kits are being manufactured in the UK - the Quickbuild range for example. Given the quality (and price) of the Kato models, I wouldn't be averse to manufacturers moving their sourcing to Japan. The problem right now is that 3-4 large contract manufacturers in China produce a large proportion of the World's railway models. They have scale and expertise that doesn't exist elsewhere. This is a problem.

[@irishsixtysixfanGbrf66739]

Not a fair comparison Eugene the lima coaches from the 1990s then the newer Hornby ones and then the modern ones

[@EuviRail]

Hi, Hornby actually invited the comparison when they started charging the same for the old coaches as the new ones. They did the same for the FGW HST I purchased last year but at least I got that at a lower pre-order price. The older coaches do warrant a lower price point and at least some retailers are reflecting this now in their discounting.