Review of Perfumers World & NEW PERFUMERY DISCORD

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Timestamps:
00:00 - Perfumer's world review
21:53 - New perfumery discord group
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[@PerfumersWorld]

Steve from PW: Very impressed with your Channel. Thank you for a very fair review of your order from us. You gave us some homework too! PW is primarily a perfume compound house, a creator, supplier and contract manufacturer of perfume compounds. Visualized in 1971 and founded in 1999 I have tried to curate a complete collection of the best raw materials from their original sources ("Bedoukian", "Biolandes", "Firmenich", "Givaudan", "IFF", "Kao", "Symrise" etc etc plus our own special purifications to remove unwanted characteristics and things like furocoumarins, heavy metals etc. Many of these we offer for sale. We do not use or sell generic versions of aroma chemicals or materials that can be a fraction of the price of the original material. Some of our materials we can purchase/create in tons others in Kgs and yet others in grams so some of our materials appear to be cheap and others expensive. Full Documentation MSDS, IFRA, EU Allergen forms etc. are supplied on request, based on clients specific needs (if this didn't happen for anyone please contact me via the Website contact page and I will get it put right). Larger quantities Kilos to tons we generally only quote against specific order requirements. However, price breaks happen immediately if you open a Professional Account (20% to 40% discount). **NOTE: We have taken your comments to heart and we will implement more user friendly solutions as quickly as we can. The "Fleuressence" Bases form an integrated systematic solution for rapid formulation development to produce almost any fragrance in minutes. A few years ago we carried out a presentation for 23 "Jo Malone" distributors in South East Asia where we demonstrated an average creation time with, no iteration limits (remakes), of 4.78 minutes. Whilst some feel it is "cheating" it is a powerful method and tool to produce custom perfumes for clients efficiently, cost-effectively and with a first sample acceptance rate of over 90%. Participants in our professional Level Courses learn how to make their own Bases and create quickly with the Bases and then convert them back into "single" raw material versions with only Essential Oils, Extracts, Isolates and/or Aroma Molecules in a few minutes or so.

[@sammacer]

Hi Steve, Thank you for your comprehensive follow up to the review. Glad that you think it's fair. Thank you for providing some insight on your sourcing too on behalf of everyone reading. It's great to hear you're looking to improve the ease of accessibility to your documentation as I think a lot of customers would benefit from this. Good luck with it and thank you for taking my comments into consideration, much appreciated. It makes sense that the Fleuressence bases are a key part of your training. No problem with that, I was just trying to give my perspective on it - I tried to make clear it's not an aversion to your bases in particular but bases in general. I wish you all the best, Sam

[@wyomingpark]

Fantastic reply Steve. Love your company. I'm a supremely happy customer for the last 6 years.

[@Fuckeurovision]

The video is from 2 years ago so It might have changed recently, but I can confirm now that they provide MSDS of the raw materials. You can find them when you click on a material you’re interested in

[@justchefmack4188]

Thank you for this! I was just about to place an order from other suppliers. Now I can try a lot more materials.

[@sammacer]

Glad the video came you in time!

[@mi-vy8xm]

i love that there is relative odor impact and hours on paper strips,its very unique for a company sharing that info,very helpful,thanks man for sharing!

[@sammacer]

Glad it could help

[@mi-vy8xm]

@@sammacer very helpful to us😊

[@mi-vy8xm]

@@sammacer sir as ive said before,we have this type of formula: 15-25% fragrance oil(inspired like versace eros) dpg 2-3% fixative(tonalide) 2-3% pga(alcohol) 70-75% distilled water 5% bro do you still use distilled water and dpg or dipropylene glycol as moisturizer?is it necessary?

[@sammacer]

@@mi-vy8xm Nope

[@mi-vy8xm]

@@sammacer so after you mixed your ingredients and got your formula,youre not gonna add dpg and water,just pure ethanol?

[@allysonbriner1883]

Thanks for sharing your latest order! There's nothing quite as exciting as trying out new essences :) While I totally get making your own bases rather than buying pre-made ones, I've been considering buying some "Fleuressences" just so I can get to know perfume categories better. For example, I have no idea what perfumers mean when they say "orchid", as orchids don't really have a smell (otherwise I have to go to the department store and smell a bunch of perfumes that claim "orchid" as a note).

[@sammacer]

That's fair enough! I don't know what orchids smell like either :p

[@bentleycreative6407]

Orchid is a fantasy note because as you say it doesn't have a smell. I'm not sure if there is a consensus though like the fougere or amber.

[@sammacer]

@@bentleycreative6407 Interesting, good to know

[@33k33k]

Orchids at department stores (usually Phalaenopsis spp.) are bred for their looks and don't smell. Other orchids have a wide variety of smell. You could check them out at a local botanical garden if they have a greenhouse. Some species smell really incredible :)

[@sammacer]

@@33k33k Interesting idea :D

[@LABdk]

Perfumers World (Perfumers Studio) gets such a bad rap, yet I’ve never had a bad experience with the LA location. In the last 6 years, I’ve been able to stop by, smell, pick up, hang out, learn, work and socialize with them. The Fleuressences, and all bases for that matter, can be a challenge. But! When I took a class with Stephen, he mentioned that if something were to happen to him or the company, the actual Fleuressence formulas would be supplied to those who requested them so any product could continue to be produced. I’m stopping by in just a couple days to pick up an order. Thanks for your channel!

[@sammacer]

No worries, glad you enjoy their studio, never been myself :)

[@lolalolady]

Thank you for this review. I’ve been looking for the best place to start as someone completely new to the perfumery world, so your reviews are very helpful and insightful.

[@sammacer]

Glad I can help. I would also recommend Pell Wall!

[@Gonzalo_K]

I agree with you in regards to using bases, however I'd say if you're willing to use any, get them from the big houses as they're most unlikely to discontinue (maybe reformulation is more probable but it's a common adaptation these days)

[@sammacer]

Fantastic point, I forgot to mention that. I completely agree - I use a number of those myself, I would even consider Rose Givco 217 a workhorse

[@Gonzalo_K]

@@sammacer yeah that's a great one. Cassis 345B (Firmenich) and Ambergris Ess. (IFF) are two that I find quite good too

[@sammacer]

@@Gonzalo_K Yeah Cassis 345B is fantastic - I used it in my first Mango accord. I haven't tried the other though

[@andreaandric4273]

They do have MSDS Documentation near bottom of the page of a product

[@sammacer]

Good that they added it, this video was made 2 years ago

[@amyb842]

I specifically asked them for sds , they don't/won't provide them to you. OSHA requires employers to have them availablr=e to employees, etc. The fines in theUS are huge for violating them

[@sammacer]

Damn, that really is a negative then

[@buco87]

@@sammacer It just sounds so weird that they won't provide it, I just don't see why anyone in EU & US would use them then.. I've also sent them an email, waiting for response.

[@sammacer]

@@buco87 Yeah I completely agree with you on that - I wouldn't buy from them for the raw materials I use in final products I don't think. I think for trying new things it's still good as there are lots of companies sadly not providing the proper documentation. Take Hermitage oils for example.

[@buco87]

@@sammacer wait so hermitage oils don't provide it? I just ordered stuff for like 140$.. Also sounds weird tbh but I'm gonna have to send them an email as well then 🤣

[@sammacer]

@@buco87 Well, sometimes they provide it. I managed to get it off them once for something I needed but they also responded to tell me that they only have it for some things.

[@waleedlyrics]

Is good for make owen perfume and what’s about quality oil please

[@tomask9588]

Can anyone confirm that their amber bottles are GL18? I would replace the original caps with polycone lined ones, if they fit.

[@lewah7663]

Pell wall do offer you the ingredients list of their bases if you buy a certain volume I believe

[@sammacer]

Yeah they do - for sure a great thing about their bases

[@Perfumery_by_Sabin]

I have a hard time using pine needle EO so far. I like the description of the absolute. Sounds more like what I’ve been looking for.

[@Perfumery_by_Sabin]

Black currant bud absolute was tricky. I got a 2g sample and it just wouldn’t heat up and become pipeable. So I just added 2 grams of alcohol to the vial and made it 50%. It finally started to melt. Then took it down to 10%. I didn’t notice the cat puss at first till my mom pointed it out lol

[@sammacer]

The EO is very camphoraceous. The absolute is much more mossy and mulchy. I imagine the two together would be good although I haven't tried yet. Think of it like the EO as the top note component and the absolute as the base note component.

[@Perfumery_by_Sabin]

@@sammacer nice! Sounds like what I have been looking for. With a trace amount of terrasol

[@qasimrabeeah6046]

Can you please make a video of how to make a perfume at home

[@chippy6354]

Hi Sam, just wondering if you've ever heard of a site called Scent Scientists? I came across it a few weeks ago, they are based here in the UK and i'm thinking of ordering my first few materials from them, they do see to be relatively new judging from the amount of materials they have currently (but can't be 100% sure....lol). Just thought I would bring them to your attention and hope maybe one day, if you get time you could check them out and even possibly do a review of them.

[@sammacer]

Answered you in the discord

[@chippy6354]

@@sammacer yeah thankyou, i posted on here then realised Discord might be the best place to ask instead lol.... But thankyou for your reply 👍

[@sinivasannarayanasamy4059]

Thank you for sharing

[@Blub1234ish]

Hi Sam, can u say something about the purity of the compounds you bought ? Do they give certificate of analysis with the products

[@sammacer]

There is no certificate of analysis as far as I know but you could email them as they may well have it

[@skpea4077]

This is great thanks

[@sulimankthiri3938]

Hello Sam, I would like to provide a video about the evaporation curve and measure the effect of the observations on each other in terms of strength and age

[@sammacer]

Watch these two videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqDMfIl4r8adj6c kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKSznYOeedWqbs0

[@sulimankthiri3938]

thank you

[@SuperDorike]

I just ordered the training kit for the online course but apparently in Spain the package could not be delivered due to EU limitations:(

[@sammacer]

You should email them about it

[@tomask9588]

Could you please provide more info why? I am planning to buy from them my initial set of materials (not the training kit though) and I am in Slovakia - if it's EU limitations, it would apply to me too.

[@SuperDorike]

Also what do you think about their workshop/courses?

[@sammacer]

No idea, I haven't taken them

[@dawoadalyaqoby1952]

Hi it's very nice ro material thanks so interested

[@hichouification]

I see your view on why one should not rely on floricences or bases, they are easy short cuts and will defently make a perfumer lazy with no control over his creation. Thank you for the video

[@sammacer]

No problem!

[@Perfumery_by_Sabin]

Agreed, I had purchased many pre made bases from creating perfume. They are lovely but I don’t take as much pride in using them, because I feel I’ve lost originality and slowing my learning. Just put in that absolute and essential oil order from eden botanicals and holy cow am I impressed. The Virginian cedar smells much more elegant than just pencil shavings etc. More of a fine cedar chest

[@sammacer]

@@Perfumery_by_Sabin Really glad you got those naturals, they sound great! And no problem with the bases - we all start there. I still use some from big manufacturers like Givaudan and in this case I'm happy to.

[@pipml9293]

Plisss make app formulair in android

[@sammacer]

I would like too but I can't do it any time soon unfortunately!

[@pipml9293]

@@sammacer can you make video about scalup formulaa? If i want to make 15 bottols

[@FleetingDream755]

@@sammacer I am making my own android (cross platform really) perfumery app. I started it two years ago but I'm getting back to it now. I'm making it around my own needs but if people are interested, I might scale it out a bit. It's a side project at the moment. If you're interested in collaborating, let me know!

[@sammacer]

@@pipml9293 Just multiply all the quantities by a fixed number

[@sammacer]

@@FleetingDream755 Send me an email and we can chat about it :) [e-mail]

[@bentleycreative6407]

I've heard that their materials are low quality and therefore why they are so cheap. However, I've had no direct experience so I can't speak from experience, so I would be interested in your thoughts if you were able to compare materials from more established sources.

[@sammacer]

Makes sense - since I only bought things I don't have already, unfortunately I don't have a reference to compare too. I noticed a couple of naturals weren't amazing though so maybe that's a sign

[@bentleycreative6407]

@@sammacer I'd be very interested in a follow-up video once you've had an opportunity to assess the materials fully. At the moment the video is overwhelmingly positive and for the brand new perfumer it's probably a good place to start, but I wonder if that will change after a living with the materials for a while?

[@sammacer]

@@bentleycreative6407 Yeah sure thing - if my opinion on anything changes I will post an update. It's a shame because I imagine if I had ordered naturals I already knew the quality of it would have been a better review. I do think though that the conclusion is probably correct - good for trying things but not for buying larger quantities. I don't see that they could go that far wrong with aromachemicals.

[@ericwatts8599]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe their prices are cheaper because they buy in bulk, as a wholesaler and perfume manufacturer, whereas places like Pellwell and Perfumer's Apprentice are (mostly) retailers that resell raw materials and compounds. I've bought some materials from them before and he reassured me that, for example, their ISO E Super comes from the US, Javanol from Givaudan Switzerland, etc. They don't buy generics from my experience. I don't know them that well, but they seem trustworthy thus far. And I do love the fact that I can buy single grams of things to test out.

[@sammacer]

@@ericwatts8599 I'm pretty certain that all 3 buy in bulk. I guess that being based in a cheaper country must help.

[@scentuality3377]

The bottle caps are terrible. The orange plastic degrades extremely quickly and many of them don't fit on the bottles properly. They're cheaply made and a bit pointless. On the subject of MSDS I have also asked about this as well as their service for compounding a fragrance. I received a reply about a week later which said that they could compound a fragrance and ship it but they could not bottle it. They never commented on the MSDS enquiry nor did they answer any of the other questions I had asked. Customer service is not the best. Here in Germany two of my last three orders were held at customs and I had to pay an extra 40 euros to get them delivered. The first time I was given a credit note for 40 euros but the second time they ignored my email. On a separate note I've been trying to find out information recently about selling my fragrances. This isn't something I'm wanting to do now, but it's something I'm wanting to focus on in the future. Can you point me in the right direction with regards to finding out the relative information and European requirements. What do I need to do? any helpful information would be greatly appreciated.

[@sammacer]

That's a shame about the bottle caps - I never used them myself. Interesting that you couldn't get the MSDS since Steve from Perfumer's world commented on this video and said you could get them by emailing - it's sad to hear that you couldn't. Thank you for the addition to the review, I'm sure it will help others reading! In terms of EU regulations, I personally found it's hard to find all the information in one place online without someone wanting you to pay for it. The reality is though that the EU cosmetics law 1223/2009 itself tells you everything you need to know. I would recommend reading through this yourself (that's what I did) a few times. I seems daunting at first but actually once you've got through it, it's not so bad. What you'll see is that the main thing you need to do which you can't do yourself is get a qualified toxicologist to make a CPSR for your formula. Here's the link: eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32009R1223

[@scentuality3377]

@@sammacer Thanks Sam. I appreciate that. I've never had a problem with perfumers world, but my latest communications haven't been given any attention. Never mind. I'll find a way forward. Have a good day fella!

[@scentuality3377]

@@sammacer There was one other thing I wanted to ask you and it's regarding the European Intellectual Property Office. Is this something that you have done for your brand/logo? I see that it's 850 Euro to do so.

[@sammacer]

@@scentuality3377 No, I haven't bothered with that since I don't make a profit yet with the sales to warrant it. I don't think anything like that is necessary until you have a big profitable brand up and running where people might be trying to counterfeit it.

[@scentuality3377]

@@sammacer yeah, I hear you. It lasts for ten years but seems unnecessary to start with. Do you at least recuperate the production costs? I also wondered how you decide which of your fragrances to sell. Do you make your own judgment or do you leave it to others for feedback?