Reviewing Persona 5

[@TheMrHomiezboy]

The tic-tac-toe game being played on shido’s head absolutely fucking killed me

[@kritikalKreznik]

It was such a tiny detail but so funny

[@schmoglimacaroni5773]

Same

[@themostdeadmeme1609]

"I didn't know Jesus was a Jojo..." *Yeah... About that...*

[@loxnbagels9196]

Part 7 would like a word

[@zeroattentiongaming820]

@@loxnbagels9196 Don't forget part 5. Spoilers ahead for anyone who hasn't seen/read it. Giorno's dad is God, he can perform miraculous acts like reviving the dead, has at least one case of losing his shit on a sinner in glorious fashion and his foe is literally a vain, elusive tempter who tried to lead him and his companions down a villainous path, who happens to be called Devil. Araki just gave us the New Testament in manga form with more stylish posing, Italian and a twist ending

[@albertkops2459]

@@zeroattentiongaming820 psst you need another line to obscure the spoiler completely :)

[@ShadowWolfRising]

I can't wait for the Anime to catch up to the manga, people are gonna lose their shit.

[@hagishin00]

JOshua son of JOseph

[@Brave_Tsubasa]

The only thing I think you missed about Ann is that she’s not only outcasted because of the Kamoshida stuff, but she’s also outcasted due to not fully being Japanese. She’s also overwhelming pretty which causes the popular girls to hate her and the unpopular girls to fear her. That’s why Shiho was her best friend, because she was the only one to not be put off by her appearance.

[@supermanial.2045]

I always find that situation she’s in to be a interesting one as when described that way it sounds like theirs no winning scenario is there? Then Shiho comes along and as you said, didn’t toss her aside off looks

[@Stryfe52]

Time to rise and shine, you deserve an oats of the highest caliber

[@skeletonwar4445]

True, people sometimes forget just how racist the japanese are.

[@akiradkcn]

@@skeletonwar4445 pretty ironic coming from you

[@skeletonwar4445]

@@akiradkcn It'd only be ironic if I was racist...

[@SpectreOfTheWired]

"I hope you don't have to pay your rent in insulin just to live" Yeah no, more like around three times my rent. My life is often a cycle of working my ass off until it breaks me and I can't bring myself to do it anymore psychologically, then realizing a week later that I would rather not die and throwing myself full strength into the grind again. It probably sounds dumb but videos like yours pull me out of the bleakness of being impoverished and type one diabetic, they're a little escapism that keeps me going in the worst of times. Thanks for working so hard, Kbash, it means a lot. Your exposition skit was fucking great by the way.

[@Princeomishore]

Yup. I kinda know what your going through. My life is constantly being in the hospital month after month.

[@JimmySentence]

Jesus Christ help you man. I hope things get better for you and soon big dog :)

[@B1rdzOfF1re]

Fuck man, the American healthcare system is shit. Have you looked at the alternative insulins out there?

[@chardrive]

@@B1rdzOfF1re ive heard some have success in importing from other countries like canada but I have no clue what kind of hurdles people have to jump through for that

[@Rhoen13]

P5R is one of those games that both endings are valid. The message of its important to face your problems is well and good...when theyre problems that CAN be solved. We cant exactly cure diabetes, prostetic limbs dont hold a candle to the limb theyre replacing yet, we cant restore one's ability to walk yet...and the dead are still dead. Maruki gave a ton of these people a miracle...and canonically, we take it all away, deciding that a band of teenagers know whats best for them. Im very lucky to be healthy but a lot of my patients arent and if I told them about this game and what they decide to do to Maruki's world. Theyd want to strangle these kids and I uh...I cant really blame em.

[@diegomahoney4266]

Why is Yusuke falling in the wealthy category? The entire story it’s used as comic relief how poor he actually is even if he is talented.

[@ryanredd4552]

Yeah I did find that part of the video a bit disingenuous

[@lolyoutoobe]

I think it's because Yusuke could be wealthy if he sold out and he is a well known as artist who could sell his work if he wanted.

[@yl3716]

honestly i think yusuke has money, its just that he's bad at budgeting himself. like whenever we do see him with money he buys krabs, jackets, art supplies, none of which are exactly cheap, so he must have SOME money to be able to afford it all.

[@ajeshtantri9816]

@@yl3716 Not much of a rich kid though. He mostly falls under the middle class category.

[@B-019]

To be fair, KBash said "wealth OR privilege." I'm still not entirely sure I agree with that assessment, but I kind of see his angle? And he's definitely not saying Yusuke is rolling in dough.

[@nepu47]

If the politics in Persona 5 feels shallow, well, It is because the politics in Japan is shallow now. If you know the political situation of Japan, you can see that nationalism of Shidou cleary reflects Abe shinzo`s. From 3.11 and fukshima aftermath of 2011(=The failure of Democratic Party of Japan, which is similar to Democratic Party of USA), The only political choice for Japanese became Liberal Democratic Party of Japan(which is similar to republic party of USA). The prime minister Abe went full on nationalizm, made effort to evade constitution, took neo-liberal movement in terms of economy(supporting to mega "zaibatsu" companies rather than taking care of welfare), mishandled covid-19 in early days and 2020 olympic ... and even then LDP wins for 2021 general election, approval rating goes high even now. * About 10years, Japanese people refused to change. Because they believe that the opposite(The Constitutional Democratic Party of Japan, the successor of DPJ, which is similar to DP of USA) can not offer "better" option. They are dissapointed to politics and abandon hope. I see deep frustration in the ending of Persona 5, because devs can not suggest the answer for Japanese citzen`s indifference to politics. And Who can? *Of course, The situationa is more complex than this description. Out of kantou - Out of Tokyo`s influence, LDP is not doing well. The people in other regions hate LDP`s centralism and choose "alternative" right wings. But, this is the result of 2021 now, not then(Persona 5 came out in 2016 in Japan).

[@doublebassman123]

Carl Jung was a traditionalist and an individualist, I felt that a lot of the political undertones were far too leftie albeit, japanoleftie and that's particularly insulting to use a conservative man's work as a foundation for your cosmology and then write leftist narratives.

[@abrahampardede7557]

@@doublebassman123 this game? Far too leftie?

[@HunterStiles651]

Or, alternatively, this guy is just another wannabe revolutionary complaining about how bad "muh capitalist patriarchy" is by uploading a KZbin video on his iPhone while sipping a Soy Latte from Starbucks and we should point and laugh at the obvious bad faith with which his opinions are held rather than argue with him.

[@LAZY-RUBY]

@@HunterStiles651 you pretend to be catholic on the internet who cares what you think

[@samfivedot]

I've been saying for years that Morgana is actually fine, it's just that the Okumura arc is the worst part of the game for several reasons and the Morgana/Ryuji subplot is the loudest one. Outside of that arc I found him inoffensive. Him simping over Ann is dumb and embarrassing, but it's supposed to be.

[@Kloqdq]

Having just played P5R, the Okumura arc is just way to busy for its own good. It introduces too many moving parts and doesn't have the time needed to breathe. Like you have Haru, Morgana's identity crisis, doubt among the Phantom Thieves AND the PT's being set up. It's just way too much, way too quickly for the player to care about everything. Hell, Haru has already awaken to her Persona sort of by the time you meet her. It's almost in a hurry to get to the next, much more interesting part of the story. I could tell right away after playing it why people found these parts lacking so much. Doesn't help the whole palace kind of sucks to go through after the Bank AND the Casino right after too.

[@B-019]

@@Kloqdq Yeah, I think that arc being so overstuffed may have contributed to Haru's reputation as being the "forgettable" one. Which is a shame, because she has this weird partial-awakening thing that could have been cool.. but it mostly happens off-screen? Weird vibes. Not to mention Okumura in Royal is the worst fucking boss fight in the game, jfc.

[@Kloqdq]

@@B-019 Yeah Haru's story arc just feels weighted down by the writer's having too much they want to tell and not enough time to do so. I think she is a very neat addition to the party but man she is given the short end of the stick. You are right though Okumura is a terrible fight. Its "do the gimmick or die" sort of boss and if you fail, you can end on loops of 10+ minutes of wasted time. It's such an ass fight if you fall even a tad bit behind. Just terrible.

[@B-019]

@@Kloqdq Agreed! It's a huge shame, because I love Haru's design/aesthetic (even if her persona's voice acting is so ridiculous it kind of ruins her "full awakening" scene), but it's just so easy to shrug her off. At least Naoto was instrumental in solving the mystery in P4; Haru is just kind of... There? Bleh. And Okumaru's fight was just inexcusable. I'd beaten P5Vanilla before that and thought he hadn't been too memorable of a boss, but I'll take forgettable over the Royal version any day. It's ridiculous, because Hard mode up until that point had been a breeze after the first Palace, but Okumura was such a huge difficulty spike that I almost put the game away. And then the game went back to being a cakewalk again... Sorry, I'm clearly still salty about it and looking for any opportunity to vent, haha.

[@ISesseriI]

This is basically how I felt playing P5 for the first time. I didn't find him super annoying, but the okumura arc really hurt any chances of me thinking highly of him, especially since I wasn't really a fan of how ryuji was just called stupid at every possible moment.

[@shawninverted8551]

So wonderfully written. I was excited for you to hit 5. The way you break your experiences playing things down & seamlessly bounce between genuine emotional notes and jokes is inspired. Keep being real, KBash

[@rattlingmender1648]

it didnt feel that way imo. the writing at times felt cringe and like he was trying too hard. i wouldnt say this was wonderfully written but it was far from bad but my two cents

[@audra9465]

I just finished watching your other persona critiques and wondered when this one was going to appear 😀

[@terrenceswiff]

Japanese politics are extraordinarily vapid. Living here for a few years, I'm always in awe at how little they all manage to say in so many words. It's unbelievable

[@De_La_Evo]

it's a bit insensitive how you put it but not wholely untrue, they are traditionalists in whole, being too reformist would prob make persona 5 lose touch with it's hometown people quickly

[@terrenceswiff]

@@De_La_Evo Truth shouldn't be insensitive. When you're screaming through a megaphone that "we need to make our town better. To do that, I will make it better. I will strive to take that responsibility", I'm not going to call that anything other than vapid. No policies, only dreamlike words. It really doesn't help that they prop up at intersections and drive through neighborhoods disrupting the peace with that.

[@De_La_Evo]

@@terrenceswiff i meant saying all japanese people are like that

[@terrenceswiff]

@@De_La_Evo then you mIsread, I only talked about politicians

[@De_La_Evo]

@@terrenceswiff all of them?

[@Arexion5293]

If you're wondering about the world building: Yaldabaoth is a Shadow Collective, same as Izanami in P4 and Erebus in P3, making them all one of Nyarlathotep's masks. The only real wrench that is thrown at the world building is P3's Nyx if the artbook's statements are canon, because it goes against the overall world building and what the series has established so far. After all, this is supposed to be the Devil Summoner timeline, a timeline where SMT 1's events have been averted. But P3 onwards the world building overall has been quite the mess, so it's honestly just something to shrug at at this point. SMT If, P1 and P2 have proper continuity, while P3 onwards something always breaks. It's better not to think about it that much, since the games clearly don't give it much thought anymore. I hope P6 changes that.

[@ShadowWolfRising]

So do I.

[@MugenHeadNinja]

Nu-sona is unforunately the future of the series, don't expect things to change or get better and you won't be disappointed.

[@IceQueen975]

Disagree. Remember: in P2 IS the timeline gets split and EP takes place in the new timeline Philimon made. The original timeline is basically apocalypse and everyone dead. When EP finishes you can consider a 3rd timeline now branching off because Tatsuya went back to the original timeline and the 2nd timeline they're all currently in is also falling apart until Philimon rewinds time again aka 3rd branch. P3, 4 and 5 are in this new 3rd branch from the original branch If, 1 and P2 IS are in.

[@Arexion5293]

@@IceQueen975 I'm sorry but that doesn't align with what the game itself establishes. The timeline shift in EP doesn't actually change the timeline much at all as P1's events are still canon to it. It has the P1 cameo characters who continue from where their arcs were left off in P1. EP even brings back Kandori from the dead, who isn't all that happy to be alive again. The only thing the timeline shift changes is the shared childhood of the P2 IS cast. Also Philemon doesn't rewind time again. The original Tatsuya just returns back to his own time, thus preventing the time paradoxes from ruining the world. Also Tamaki is still there as a devil summoner trainee. I honestly don't know how you came up with this comment, as it doesn't match the game's writing.

[@Stryfe52]

My barley’s top of the shelf; I’m a man of my word.

[@blondeandbluechic]

I know persona always has goofy plotlines, and Persona 5 is no exception, but I actually really like Royal because Maruki is fully based on actual psychological concepts. I’m currently getting my doctorate in psychology and I cannot tell you how many times I’ve put P5R references into my notes. While Maruki was operating in an extreme form, his desire for a world where no one can get hurt is a common delusion. And in therapy it is recommended to have the client accept their situation instead of create a deluded reality. And I think the point of the ending was that the reality Maruki created wasn’t real. Yes, it would be great to fix all of the issues of the world but simply being in denial isn’t changing anything or helping anyone. I also really liked the point you made about Shito being the most relatable villain. As you get older, you do realize how much corruption lives in our society. And thus, my interpretation of the ending was more of an inspiring tale of how one persons individual actions can cause a ripple effect, like how Joker’s social links made their own changes. Especially going along with the themes of the game being individualism and rebellion.

[@erikvaldes4293]

This is 2 years old but you will absolutely love Neon Genesis Evangelion, its a psychological anime that goes into the Hedgehog’s Dilemma and pretty much came up with the “villain wants to create ideal world” trope in japanese stories.

[@TheMightyNovac]

I think the reason why Kamoshida's dungeon (and just the first part of the game in general) strike harder than the entire rest of the game is intimacy. It strikes that Persona 4 feeling of instant relatability since basically everybody's had some crappy personal experience with a teacher, right? That's something about the premise that P4 does well in general - its villains are almost all relatable kids, teens with relatable problems stemming from their own identities and places in the world, so their motivations are a lot more close to home. I feel like Persona 5's attempt to "go big" with everything and have this escalating threat also just leads the threat to become too big, too wide to feel personal or emotionally sincere. It's constantly pulling the protagonists into unrealistic situations like run-ins with the mob or corporate abuse as if these high schoolers have any experience with these issues.

[@LAZY-RUBY]

Bingo. I’ve had shitty teachers. I’ve had shitty bosses. But it’s a little hard to relate to having a shitty authoritarian deity. Relatability isn’t the be all end all of storytelling yes but it’s a game about and targeted towards teens so it works better when dealing with something teens can connect with.

[@TheMightyNovac]

@@LAZY-RUBY SMT V even did the relatability thing well with the giant deity boss - it was a local problem affecting YOUR town, and the boss itself had direct mythological relation to your own Persona. It was a big story, but it was set up since the get-go. I think Persona 5 spoiled this quite a bit by leaving the biggest threats to a late reveal.

[@FredMaverik]

You say that but almost all palaces have personal stakes with the characters except Kaneshiro. That's all. Kamoshida works for Ryuji and Ann, Madarame for Yusuke, Futaba's for her, Nijima's for Makoto, last one for Joker, there were some pretty personal moments for Akechi and then the palace in the extra bimester.... what are you talking about. Besides, P5 story and game is much better than the boringfest that was 4. You P4 babies need to grow up. P3 was also better ;)

[@TheMightyNovac]

​@@FredMaverik The problem there is that those personal stakes have extremely limited impact as the story progresses, and more so act as arbitrary excuses to go to a new dungeon. Kamoshida is the best Palace story-wise because his motivations and greed are illustrated excellently. We get to see his environment, the people he's abused personally, and come to know what life under the foot of Kamoshida is really like. Not only do we come to understand the people Kamoshida abuses, but Kamoshida as well. Like, literally who is that Yakuza guy? Or the McDonalds CEO? Or even the final (human) villain of the game? The game wants to be about its villains moreso than previous games, but it often just avoids giving them any depth. Adachi is a better example of a Persona 5 villain than half of the villains in Persona 5. He's an evil dirtbag who abuses his position of power to serve his own selfish desires, yet we still spend the entire game getting to learn who he is and what he's like in small ways. We understand his position as a detective, and the superiority he feels above all the others in Inaba. Kamoshida replicated this, as did Tae in some ways, but none of the others could match that level of development.

[@GamingBroductions]

Nice to see others who feel similarly about Persona 4. Persona 5 is extremely fun and technically ‘better’ on most objective levels when it comes to gameplay/exploration, but i just didn’t get that same feeling of comfort or connection to its characters like I did in 4. There’s something about that game that’s just max comfy, the small town vibe probably has a lot to do with it Enjoyed your Persona series of videos as a whole, you have some quality content

[@dan182v]

Sometimes the phantom thieves don't have that chemistry imo. But it really sells the "misfits who are forced to work together" part

[@jinxact532]

I love this series and I loved 2 and 4 innocent sin confused me z1 was good 3 is annoying but amazing and I've played 5 a little too much but I mainly Identidy with Ryuji for being treated like a pain in the ass for being vulgar and out spoken about things I don't agree with and being loud about it

[@xbolt678]

I'm glad I'm not the only who feels this way. I like all of the Persona titles, and while I still hold 3 as my favorite, something about Inaba instantly feels at home. 5 might be "better" but I just don't connect with it the way I did the previous games, including 1 & the duology.

[@MoonPraiser]

Can I ask why do you prefer P4? I mean, I played 3 first, then I played P5, my first contact with P4 cast was in Persona Q duology and then I finally get to play Persona 4 in ps2 this year, and I got to say, I hate P4 cast, only Naoto, Kanji, Dojima and Nanako are likable to me. And I know that P4 is often the most loved by fans, but I don't get why and I want to ask because this year I challenge myself to play every Shin Megami Tensei game since PS2 era and P3Fes was very enjoyable to me, even the Answer, but when I come to play P4 (I saved it for last in the SMT game list) I got tired very soon. The gameplay got nothing special, no fusion spells or baton pass, Yosuke is an homophobic moron, Chie and Yukiko don't make me feel nothing, Teddie is a punch bag and Rise is just there to please weebs. Naoto and Kanji are good characters but they can't carry my gameplay alone, I tried the game on hard and reach Rise dungeon and then I stop 'cause I couldn't stand more, not 'cause of difficulty but due to being tired of it. So yeah, if someone could please tell me what make P4 so "special" I would appreciate it, maybe I just got burnout for playing just SMT games for 2 months, or maybe the fact I played P5 before P4 spoiled the game for me, so I don't know. Thanks in advance for any response, have a nice day beautiful people.

[@Jack-nj9pi]

play strikers the connections and what they did in that game are so much better

[@PlayerUnoYT]

"Makoto does her best Star Platinum impression" No, she's doing a Kenshiro impression.

[@jinxact532]

Thats really accurate

[@SwordsmanOrion]

Yeah that made me cringe a little bit as well. Just listen to what Ryuji says in that Showtime and it's a clear obvious reference to Fist of the North Star.

[@JeanS1000100]

Was looking for this comment just as he said it.

[@FredMaverik]

@@SwordsmanOrion what does he say?

[@shikitohno47]

@@FredMaverik when she joins the party Ryuji calls her the "fist of the the phantom star"

[@kitocco9827]

It might not have been the note people wanted this retrospective to end on… but it’s the one we needed. This was a real treat of a ride to go on. The personal bits were sweet touches as well. And I dunno what do say about the Lvl. 1 Social Link joke other than… cute. No matter the stat benefit or lack thereof. Even in a period where I’m incredibly self-conscious about my video taste, I loved every moment. Even if the Chie Alex YIIK comparison I haven’t let go of. Keep up the dang good work, KBash. 💚

[@NiteEXE]

The way you completely miss the point of the third semester and Akechi’s character is so…flabbergasting. Maruki suggests a world of maximum pleasure and minimum pain, Akechi suggests a world where you can live how you want. There is more to life than managing pain and pleasure, because to Akechi the way he lived no matter how bad it was is tied to his identity. He would rather be dead as himself than live as his fake self in Maruki’s world. Also yeah the whole point of Maruki is that the thieves finally come to face their own ideals. Maruki is doing what they did on a global scale, and part of their discussion before fighting him was “if this is our mess it’s up to us to clean it”.

[@Kloqdq]

I believe the finale of Royal is mostly focused on about growth - being able to face one's own trauma, their grief, their goals and desires. Maruki's ultimate solution is to run away, turn your back on your own personal problems and hide from it. Live your ultimate fantasy instead of facing reality. It's a direct clash with the Phantom Thief's own ideals of finding inner strength to overcome one's issues. If Futuba never stopped running she would live in consistent pain and fear of the world. If Odo never learned to be okay with losing, maybe he would always be a loner, angry at the world and unable to grow. If Makoto didn't stand up for herself and follow her own path, she'd always be the puppet to someone else. If No-Good-Tora never learned to accept his younger, dumber self he would still be giving speeches to no one. So on and so forth. Every confidant experiences similar problems and the greater theme of Persona 5 is overcoming society's chains to become a full person. Learning from mistakes, your trauma, your inexperience, everything - to be who you ultimately want to be. That is why I think Maruki is such a great send off because he isn't wrong. It's okay to run from your problems and start new. It's okay to give up and find something else that would suit you better and make you happy. The problem is, it's not of a person's own will that its being done. It's being forced upon them. It's not a person breaking society's chains to become their own person - it's letting yourself be shackled to a different master. It's happiness but not a real one. THAT is why he is ultimately in the wrong. Persona 5 spends a lot of time talking about Justice and what is right and what is wrong but I don't believe that is the ultimate take away from the game, at least for me. It's about learning to stand up for yourself. It's about accepting your mistakes and not letting people label you. That despite everything in the world seeming to be against you and who you are, it's okay because Society doesn't define you - you do yourself. To me, that makes Persona 5 a much stronger game. I really connected with it's themes and characters because of that. I just wanted to offer my own viewpoint on the game to maybe offer a different perspective since you have a pretty different stance to myself. Great video as always and looking forward to the next one :)

[@ArgenteonYT]

*absolutely* this KBash brings up physical problems and, while I believe that the message of P5R can still apply, I don't think the story was made with those people in mind since it focuses on psychological traumas and cognition. Games are played for escapism purposes a lot these days and I understood P5R's ending as "hey it's time to put the controller down and go live your life," and that hit me hard.

[@TheCompleteMental]

I think it's ultimately an obvious message and one not very well thought out

[@GoBeyond4Balls]

I also love ryujis English voice dude has so much intensity at times.

[@BlackJacked]

Max Mittleman is so talented

[@PhiltheMean]

Really enjoyed this video Kbash! I always have se slight disagreements on your Persona series but I think you nailed your rationale and arguments in this video especially. I will say the third semester maybe doesn't hit as hard if you take the script's rationale behind *spoilers* changing Maruku's heart, but the subtext actually hits very hard. Its about escapism fantasy will change fundamentally who you are. That hardship exists and we as a species are resilient and can actually define and rehabilitate personality even in the most bitter of realities. My perspective on this is admittedly different because I tend to have a spiritualistic slant for my world perspective. It keeps me from being too cynical I guess so I can see why this narrative may not stick for you. Good video as always!

[@JapanFreak2595]

It was something that struck me as there was know right or wrong answer type of deal, and Akechi’s stance on the matter really hits hard.

[@ReddeSpectre]

As much as I hate to say this, Persona 5 Strikers does go a pretty good way towards solving some of the problems you had with the main cast. It really did feel like we needed more time with the main cast, and Strikers is where we got it. It sucks that they had to do that in another game, but at the very least, it did happen.

[@UltraHorseBoots]

While thats cool, at the same time that's just as equally a failing on the writing if a 60-100 hour story "isn't enough time" with the main cast. It doesn't help that because of the story structure of Persona 5 we stopped the plentiful of scenes with party members before they actually joined that P3 and 4 had. Like Naoto does not suffer the same issues Haru suffers from narratively in vanilla P4 vs P5 because the writers took the effort to constantly inject her into the story with her dungeon being more the culmination of her story arc up to that point rather than her introduction like Haru.

[@MonsterZeroLITE]

100% this

[@FredMaverik]

@@UltraHorseBoots game is already too big. Stop crying.

[@FredMaverik]

I'm playing through Royal and over 150 hours wasn't enough for you people?... Damn.

[@KingGargantuas]

If in a 150+ hour long game and any of you still don't feel a full connection with the main cast for the most part at least, then that sounds more like a them problem, because aside from maybe Haru (who even then I personally didn't hate mind you) they all feel truly developed particularly in the royal edition

[@KevinSkye1]

52:16 I actually live with chronic pain, had two botched surgeries on my foot/ankle and lost the proper stability to walk and stand for long periods of time. It's not great, at all and I'm reminded every time I wake up in the morning and plant my feet on the ground. I'm 34

[@Nanook128]

30:18 Ackchyually, Makoto is clearly doing her best Kenshiro from fist of the north star impression

[@Vlayer]

I do feel like you're twisting the conclusion of the story by claiming that it's just returning to the status quo. While Persona 5 spends a large amount of time reveling in the power fantasy of being the Phantom Thieves and delivering justice to the wicked, it ultimately is against that kind of fantasy. It looks like a very black and white conflict, because that's how the naive teenage protagonists see the world, but the game itself often recognizes that the root cause of that conflict is much more complicated, and that it lies with the very people who the Phantom Thieves want to save. It becomes very clear around the time of the Okumura arc, when the PT are at the height of their popularity. Their initial goal was to inspire people to take control of their own lives, but instead the people ask for the PT to clean up the mess for them. E.g. rather than the employees confronting their boss for terrible work conditions, they post on the forums asking for their boss to have a change of heart. Prior to the PT, those same people were fully willing to live with that burden, and that kind of apathy is what ultimately gives the "God of control" its power. While the in-game world does return to the status quo following the defeat of Yaldy/Maruki, the metanarrative of the game is to impose a message to the player, which is that you control the change you wish to see in the world. It uses the multiple character stories, be it friend or foe, to explore how that kind of freedom is both good and bad. Yusuke's confidant perfectly encapsulates it with the "Desire and Hope" painting.

[@IceQueen975]

This.

[@kevinmay9151]

yeah, I really like Kbash's takes, and I really don't sense anything malicious out of his conclusion since he made it clear he just feels frustrated but that felt somewhat lazy? I dunno I could be bias, but yeah not a mention of justice system, mishima, Joker having to go to jail even after they save the world. It feels like this was more of an opinion piece than a critique almost? Like he's not entirely wrong about the paradoxes in the argument but it feels like he was missing a lot of points.

[@TheGunFreak94]

Yeah except not at all! I'm tired of persona 5 fans trying to extrapolate something more just because they like the style. The story is black and white because that's what they were going for. It's a very weak and pathetic style of "rebellion" Hell with your conclusion of apathy persona 3 already did that, and probably a bit better. There's an actual sacrifice, and the characters pledge to try and change the world in whatever way they can. Just admit you like the flashiness of persona 5 and then we can all move on

[@Vlayer]

@@TheGunFreak94 Nothing of what you said is an actual argument. You just dismissed what I've said without actually discussing any of it and explaining how it's misguided. Instead you brought up the style of the game despite me never mentioning that aspect. Just saying that "Persona 3 already did that" is also completely ignoring how they tackle that topic differently. Sure, Persona 3 has the "apathy syndrome", but that's about the will to live, since P3 is about mortality. The apathy in P5 is more so about the will to change, about how people would rather secure their current situation in life than risk trying to change it for the better.

[@kevinmay9151]

@@Vlayer anyone who responds like that isn't really worth giving attention.

[@Phonix463]

Loved the script and the send off. Your skill with words reminds me I need to read better things more often. Your vids are always a treat and it’s something I make time for.

[@nucleja]

Yes! the saga is complete! thank you for these kbash

[@Wallazors]

Liked the video overall, but I think perhaps you don't understand the message of the last dungeon. Pain informs happiness. Persona doesn't deal with the nuance, yeah, but the root idea has a ton of merit. Because of course its really unfair the hypothetical wheelchair kid's world returned back to pain and suffering....but obviously thats not the point. The motivators they bring up for accepting this new world from our characters do require rejection. Talking to your head's version of your dead father (Haru) is not healthy. Same with your mother (Futaba). Ryuuji had accepted his place in the world and was ready to move on, as was the rest of our cast. Incorporating past pain into your life can be powerful, giving us the ability to take ownership of our personal story after we have properly healed from the event. Persona 5, even with its focus on rebellion, is really about how that rebellion forms us into new people, stronger people, by helping us find our place in the world. I hope you read this, and think again about what t he game was trying to say. Poser rebellion isn't that bad-real change is incremental, and Makoto's arc even shows this. We don't fix the system in a day. We add Makotos into the system until finally it works.

[@devingunnels3251]

I've never related to a character more than Mishima, and I'm extremely disappointed with how overlooked he is by the fanbase

[@lukedavies3654]

That is surprisingly fitting with him

[@jameswood5]

My dude this series has been a joy. Thank you for doing what you do.

[@coffeepeals3936]

If you want an ending that shows what you’ve done to a world overall.. play the SMT series, which I do wonder now that you’re through with persona are you gonna do the Smt series?

[@xidjav1836]

I believe there's one law ending in 4 where she actually reforms society by subduing vices, DS has that one ending where IIRC you destroyed destiny so everyone can choose

[@Stryfe52]

@@xidjav1836 Hey, that’s a lot like Jo-

[@Whatthescallop1776]

Nobody cares about the SMT series lmao. No seriously, the only big youtuber who actually played an SMT game is yakkocmn, and he even explains why SMT is a series no one cares about.

[@coffeepeals3936]

@@Whatthescallop1776 it’s weird to treat an opinion as fact. That opinion is also fundamentally wrong. I like SMT, atleast 75 likes on my comment is safe to assume 75 people like SMT. I couldn’t preorder the collectors edition of SMT 5 because it was sold out, so those people liked SMT. That big youtuber you mentioned, I’ve never heard of them. SMT 5 was really good so your perception on it’s popularity doesn’t mean anything. It sold well and the series has been going strong since the NES. So the TLDR reply to your comment is as such: lmao.

[@swuq5396]

@@Stryfe52 DONT YOU FUCKIN SAY IT

[@Kuma5655]

44:32 Was loving the dive into Shido and how the pursuit of power shapes people and systems, then I noticed the dude's head lol.

[@MirunaNero]

I... kinda have to disagree on the bit about the third semester? Also about the themes of the game as a whole? Kind of. The game phrases its themes as rebellion and fixing society but that's not *really* the core of the game. I feel like what it's really about is action and agency. Standing up for yourself, for others. Taking life into your own hands and facing it and whatever it throws at you head on. That's really where every character fits into the story. Every confidant, villain, and even the phantom thieves themselves. All of them, in some way or another, revolve around *agency*. Literally, that's the underlying theme for everyone, even Yaldaboath and Maruki. Both of them are trying to create a perfect world by taking away agency. The Prison of Acedia is filled with people who simply want to give up their agency for peace and freedom. And you have to remember, it's the palace of the general public, so these are *real* people. These people no longer have the strength to face life, and that's literally the wish that Yaldaboath is trying to grant. He wants to take away agency by killing everyone in existence. Maruki wants to take away agency, and overwrite everything and everyone with idealistic puppets. The people in Maruki's world are granted the same wish Yaldaboath wanted to grant, just with a different method. You can see this most clearly if you choose the alternative ending, both Akechi and Sumire get completely overwritten, their agency is gone and they're replaced with effectively different people completely under Maruki's control. In the end the game is about pain, and suffering. And learning to rise against the constant tide of life that threatens to drown us. That's why the true ending is defeating Maruki. It's not about rejecting idealism, it's about getting the *player* to face the cruelty of life. And instead of letting it bring you down and crush you, rising up and continuing to persist. Life is painful but it can also be beautiful. That's *our* reality, there is no Maruki to change that and there never will be. So, instead of drowning, we push onward. We deal with pain accordingly, we savor our moments of happiness, and we stand up for those who are nearly sinking. The real world is incredibly ugly, and bleak if you take a long, hard look at everything. It's all we can do to enjoy life where we can, persist through the pain, and bring others up. THAT'S the real theme and message of the game.

[@TheGunFreak94]

So the game delivered the message poorly, ie it's written bad. Kbashs take is valid since the game itself doesn't go any further to discuss or even bring it up (hell kbash even sides with miruki a bit when he talks about paying your rent on insulin and stuff) It's kind of dumb downed

[@MirunaNero]

@@TheGunFreak94 I mean, I feel like it's not the game's job to constantly hammer in what it's about though. To me the themes were pretty obvious if a bit obfuscated

[@drasconboy6349]

@@MirunaNero The game's themes are all over the place and most of the writing sends mixed messaging which isn't really a good thing Sonic & the Black Knight hammers in almost the same messages as the third semester but it actually manages to make it poignant and clear and most importantly, gives an Actual Argument for the theme it presents instead of "just because"

[@MirunaNero]

@@drasconboy6349 I mean, you're entitled to your opinion. I disagree

[@B-019]

@@drasconboy6349 Agreed. Semi-related: It's really depressing that the big payoff for all your social links is that they're able to petition the government to release you... For breaking parole on a crime you didn't actually commit in the first place? C'mon, man. I get that there's more going on, what with Shido's goons being out to get you, but even that undercuts Sae's send-off later. Yeah, cool, I'm glad a powerful prosecutor is actually trying to do good now, but I have a hard time buying that the system is fixed and we can leave it in their hands when it took a tidal wave of support and strings being pulled from within the prosecutor's office just to get Joker's bullshit charges dropped. Yet this is a game about agency? You're literally being chased up until the last minutes of the game by shady men in dark suits! I'm not convinced, man.

[@dmaster5556]

Barely 3 minutes in and I'm dying at "mean green peen with a glossy sheen"

[@Stryfe52]

Vulgar boy is such a cool guy doesn’t afraid of anything

[@lordderp6914]

Doesn't Afraid of Anything indeed

[@eggos2713]

Well said. If this isn’t considered deep and poetic, I don’t know what is.

[@Stryfe52]

Won’t you try my wheat? Come get some grains friend!

[@Kageryushin]

46:32 Yes. This world is in fact just layered with powerful gods and demons. The Persona games, Shin Megami Tensei if... and the Devil Summoner games all exist in the same timeline (granted the reset of P2). The entire premise of the first Raidou Kuzunoha game is to prevent SMT1 (and thus SMT2 and the spin-offs of these initial mainline games) from happening, basically, and in so doing, creating a timeline where humanity is presently in primary control of its destiny, hence Persona being about the triumphs and failures of humans making or breaking the world. It's also possible for the events of SMT3 and SMT5 (which references both SMT3 and P5) to occur in variations of this timeline. The Sea of Souls is just the Expanse/Atziluth of other MegaTen games. Tartarus, the Midnight Channel, and Mementos, among others, are manifestations of the collective unconsciousness, spiritual realms composed of innumerable amalgamated sentiments that are linking to and/or encroaching upon the material world, and they are not really different in fundamental nature from the Schwarzwelt from SMT Strange Journey. There are also entities native to the Sea of Souls/Expanse which predate humanity entirely, like Nyx and Mem Aleph. Philemon and Nyarlathotep act respectively as the collective Persona and collective Shadow of humanity. Demons can be beckoned from the Sea of Souls through the power they represent (and you'll recall how Nyarlathotep's final form is described as a mass of countless faceless gods in Eternal Punishment), but there are other methods of summoning demons in the setting besides calling your Persona. It's simply that, like Personas themselves, this power is kept hidden from the public at large for the most part. Point is, there are other extant gods and demons in the setting, and Persona in particular simply deals with the occult happenings directly involved with the collective unconsciousness and therefore Personas and Shadows, with the presence of Philemon and Nyarlathotep becoming more subtle and represented through symbolism post-P2 (butterfly save points in P4, Shadows as a whole, etc.).

[@FredMaverik]

Awesome, thanks for tor that man.

[@lmn1929]

Have you watched Revolutionary Girl Utena? A lot of the points you made about P5's lack of actual systemic change are executed really well in Revolutionary Girl Utena.

[@dad5draco]

Man's did not just call Makoto's Fist of the North Star reference a "Star Platinum." Even as a JoJo fan, you gotta know when it's a JoJo reference. Smh. 😄

[@elsamarks8477]

I just finished this game. I saw your video when it came out, and my only takeaway at the time (as someone with little knowledge of the games content) was you note about how the game refuses to challenge structural societal powers. I think I mostly agree with you I'd like to add my own two cents as we all have here, about the social links. Your comment about them being reduced to reading a guide and repeating their personality back to them was also 100% accurate. I will say that I played this game in 3 weeks and was obsessed for most of it because of what my imagination did with the social links. I started writing out scenarios that fleshed out the interactions to tell a story that I would appreciate beyond what the developers intended. I genuinely wonder if it is to the games credit that I was able to make my own fun, or to it's detriment that the experience as it lay resonates so shallow. Great video Mr Bash.

[@vinegar4556]

I think my biggest issue with the game has always been how the characters are handled. Simply put, they're far too immature. P4's gang was no group of intellectuals either, but with them, it was more forgiving since they were up against a serial killer and outside of a few non-canon events, there was no real point where their actions could be called into question too much, so their black and white perspective on things was more justified. Even in those instances of moral ambiguity, it was handled very well and the characters actually struggled with the enormity of their actions and the consequences to come. In 5, the kids are very similar in how they act, but in this case, their actions have the implications to create mass hysteria, to reshape the structure of the country, to topple governments and businesses and they treat it with the care and tact of a child tracking mud through the house. They've always had a very "Fuck you, we're right, you're wrong" attitude that is extremely off-putting to me, It doesn't help that when things go wrong, it's made clear that it isn't really their fault, so they get a free pass for acting like irresponsible jackasses just because the people they go up against are worse than they are. It's actually worse in the spinoff, where they end up going against villains who aren't so cartoonishly evil, and yet the self-righteous attitude remains.

[@TheSobeast247]

A lot of teenagers are, in fact, immature, irrational jackasses with a "fuck you, I'm right you're wrong" attitude if my HS days were any indication whatsoever. Shit, the same could be said about a lot of adults

[@kevinmay9151]

@@TheSobeast247 and overall I think that was the point. Like yeah the characters, are kids being very self-righteous, even found joker's dialogue options for defeated mementos targets to be fairly cocky, but I couldn't help but feel that to be appropriate as the worldbuilding is showing the blantant evil of a person who is out of control in real life(aside from futaba/Mishima few other examples) as well as the palace owners, since one of the many things that can cause someone to have a palace is by having a lot of people overlook or back up their wrongdoings, Ex: the whole school overlooks Kamoshida's abuse so by default he has them under his control. So if I was in a world where there was no doubt what I was doing would be successful, hell yeah I would be pretty cocky. It's nothing I would take super literally other than to represent rebellion and trust your judgment in a world that is constantly condemning it, that's how I personally view characterization, as long as they represent an idea I'm pretty satisfied, and if they do things that just simply don't make sense here and there it doesn't kill the vibe...too much(There are definitely characters in media that were a major turn off due to choices) And that's why I actually don't hate base Akechi nor his death, cause yeah why would we know anything about a guy who truthfully doesn't want to know us? And yeah his dying words about Shido being his Dad are rushed in and don't make me feel for him and I felt that was the point, we all have pain in our past but how we let it dictate our actions when we are given opportunities to do the right and wrong things is what's important to me in that scene and how we are responsible for those actions.

[@vinegar4556]

@@TheSobeast247 I'm not doubting that, trust me I know how accurate that can be. But at least for me, it's just not very pleasant to sit through for a hundred plus hours.

[@Zeronigel332]

@@kevinmay9151 I think the “they’re kids so of course they are this way” is such a terrible argument to nearly everything. Kids are smart they aren’t as stubborn as people say they are. Kids are more like well the kids from from p3, kids are very understanding when you treat them like how you treat adults. They can have intelligent conversation but I think so many games are excuse for a kid being annoying and completely ignorant.

[@kevinmay9151]

@@Zeronigel332 but what I'm saying is combined with the metaverse of course they're gonna super over the top, and p3 is a game about coming to peace with your life so you can live it to the fullest so of course they're gonna mature quickly, not that they shouldn't in p5 I'm just saying it makes sense why they are so cocky there is a method to the madness. Overall tho yeah p5's dialogue is very over the top.

[@darkrulerbob]

You make change irl by changing things around you small steps at a time. Big sweeping changes actually usually hurt way more than they help.

[@chrisdaughen5257]

What are everyone’s thoughts on P5's endings? I feel like the vanilla version did it better with everyone going on a road trip to Joker's hometown. It felt uplifting with P5's theme in the background while Ryuji talks about doing your best to change the world. Royal had the party just dump Joker at the train station so they could show Sumire walk away from him which wasn't much of an emotional payoff. Fortunately playing Strikers washed out the funny taste in my mouth even though it didn't have anything to do with Royal.

[@checkmate3735]

I think Royal’s ending is supposed to feel off for a reason…in a very bittersweet feeling. Having the overly happy cutscene from vanilla be the ending to Royal’s content would’ve felt off because the thieves fought so hard to destroy Maruki’s reality. So a bittersweet yet realistic ending where the thieves have to go their separate ways and dump off Ren at the train station makes a lot of sense. Everyone has their schedules and they can stay together for a limited time. So having the happy-go-lucky vanilla ending would’ve felt off since everyone would be acting like everything’s all good. So yes, the Royal ending might not capture the same feeling but it’s a lot more realistic

[@timidcrayonbox]

the ending of royal just felt like akechi and joker tryna redpill everyone

[@Kurrymiu]

IM LATE, BUT LMAOOOO

[@Princeomishore]

Spoilers for the ending of royal So about the ending where maruki changes reality for the better and the phantom theives want to change it back to normal. I get what they where going for. You shouldn't run away from your problems and all that, I get it but...if it was me I would 100% choose maruki's dream world. I have a really painful chronic disease that gives me horrible pain, and it suuuuuuuucks. Im in constant pain, I get admitted to the hospital every month because of how bad it gets. I have to use very powerful narcotics just so I can have some semblance of relief. If I lived in America instead of Canada then I wouldn't even be able to go to the hospital because of the amount of debt I'd be in. Multiple of my relationships have been affected by it and i can barely hang out with my friends. There are multiple times where I wish I didn't have this illness. So when the phantom thieves say that I shouldn't escape my trauma and that I should own my pain and all that. Like I get what they where going for but It felt kinda insulting to be told that I shouldn't want a world where I wouldn't have to deal with chronic pain. It just kinda irked me a little, like it was saying I shouldn't wish that I was better, that I shouldn't wish that I didn't have to deal with this awful pain that robbed me of my childhood and kept putting me in the hospital. Idk maybe I'm overthinking this. I did have fun with the arc in the game especially with the akechi reveal, but yeah. Great video. I especially agreed with shido being a good villiain. I always thought that he was kinda realistic since there are people with no morals who will do what they can to get power. But you put it into words much better than i could. Can wait for your next vid.

[@xxProjectJxx]

Sorry to hear that. I agree that Maruki's world is probably better. When I played, I thought of all the people who would benefit in Maruki's reality. People who might have been abducted, or who suffer chronic disease. Maruki's system would give them a chance, and the Phantom Thieves never really had a satisfying rebuttal to that. At the same time, the player is given the chance to let Maruki's reality continue. It isn't the "true" ending, but it isn't an invalid one. It's just another ending, and when I looked at it like that, I started to appreciate the finale a lot more.

[@DevilHunter1994]

First off, sorry to hear about your situation. What you had to go through is objectively unfair. With that said, I don't think that the game is trying to argue that people in your situation shouldn't want to live their lives without pain. No one would realistically WANT to live a life with chronic pain after all. I think the game is simply arguing that Maruki's solution to the pain in the world is far from the perfect fix that he proclaims it to be and comes with its own set of serious problems that he refuses to acknowledge. For example, look at Sumire. Yes in a moment of complete despair, she said she wanted to become her sister and live life as Kasumi, but after receiving encouragement from her friends and giving the initial feelings of grief and guilt time to pass, Sumire realized that living life as someone else actually isn't what she really wanted deep down. While moving on without her sister would be tough, she ultimately came to the conclusion that she would rather face the pain of that reality and live life as as her true self. Maruki's world would never allow her to do this. If we accept his reality, the end result is that Sumire is forced back into being Kasumi, whether she actually wants that or not, because Maruki believes that making Sumire become her sister is the only way to correct the inferiority complex that Sumire felt toward Kasumi. If he just brought Kasumi back to life, then their competitive relationship would reignite again and Sumire could once again start feeling insecure about how her older sister always seems to outshine her. Maruki can't have that. His world doesn't allow any room for personal struggles that may cause discomfort. So the only solution he can come up with is to force Sumire to live a life that she herself no longer wished to live. He's no longer even taking her wishes into account anymore and is removing any kind of say she might have in the direction her life takes. She's not the only person in the world who faces this problem either. Yusuke mentions how one of his friends, previously a struggling artist who had a real passion and love for his craft, now had no interest in art and chose to take up archery instead. So again Maruki ignores what Yusuke's friend actually wants for himself. He decided that Yusuke's friend wasn't good enough as an artist to succeed and so, took it upon himself to change his dreams and desires. Maruki fundamentally altered the very core of what made this person who they were without even a word of consent from them. Now Maruki would argue that the fulfillment the person felt after the fact made the change worth it, but whether that's actually true is a difficult question to answer. Of course Maruki would think the decision was the right one. He made the decision in the first place, so there's a natural bias there. The question the game and the Phantom Thieves ask in return is "What gives Maruki the right to decide what would make OTHER people happy?" When the thieves change the world back, their argument isn't that doing this will make people happier. For some it will and some it won't. They know perfectly well that the true reality is full of problems and they aren't saying we shouldn't be looking for solutions to these problems. Their only real argument here is that Maruki doesn't have the right to decide how everyone else in the world should live the rest of their lives. If an individual wants to chase their dreams and risk the pain that could come from failure, then it should be that individual's decision to make.

[@BitchChill]

I'd actually choose Maruki's reality, it'd have its downsides but nothing is perfect. I only choose the true ending each time for the extra content, and that route genuinely good

[@silversmilegirl]

The way I see it, there's also the fact that ultimately Maruki would have complete control of the new reality, which is Akechi's main issue with Maruki's world. People would be happy but wouldn't have total free will anymore. A kind prison warden is still a prison warden. For example, look at Sumire. If you've gone through most of the third semester, then Sumire has already to resolved herself to live as Sumire instead of Kasumi. In that case, you could argue her wish would would have changed: maybe she would have wished to live happily with her sister. But if you accept Maruki's deal on 2/2, then Sumire is still overwritten with 'Kasumi,' because it's still what Maruki _believes_ is best. Letting one man have all that power over the entire world is scary. And what if he grew corrupted one day? By an outside force, or just the corrupting force of too much power? With all the power at his fingertips, there would be nothing anyone could do to stop him. I'm not saying your take is invalid. Stories exist for different people to experience, and those experiences can vary wildly depending on a person's life and opinions. I just wanted to offer my two cents.

[@weebstuffs4785]

I think you missed the point a little bit on Haru & Makoto's characters, and how that relates to the theme of rebellion. While they're futures may be somewhat certain, both struggle with the idea that they had no control over it. It's not that they don't have a future, it's just that their individuality, even their humanity, was stripped away from them, and they became unable to connect with others. Haru may be the daughter of a rich businessman, but as a result she experiences a significant disconnect with the people around her, feeling like everyone just wants to use her in order to get close to her father, and to her money. Makoto also has a fairly secure future, but it's one she has little passion for - she's become an honour student because she felt she had to, not because she was striving for a goal. In addition, her academic prowess resulted in her feeling disconnected from her peers, who place her on a pedestal high above themselves - which is compounded by her own lack of perspective, which is something explored in her confidant arc. While P5 does explore rebellion as a way of pushing back against the powerful, the main cast all represent rebellion as a way of being who they are, no matter what anyone else wants them to be - being, unapologetically, an individual. That's the significance of the masks - they tear off the mask which try use to hide their true self, their persona, their spirit of rebellion.

[@yurikuki]

Persona 5 strikers is a game you should definitely play. It's a great spin off sequel that expands on the themes and characters.

[@Anas-qj6kk]

Oh damn I literally agree with you on every point, thats so weird but worth a subscription 100%.

[@ketenrammklynk9073]

even if I dont always agree with your points or opinions, you're videos always are a joy to watch. keep it up!!

[@chrismoran2896]

I fell in love with p3 thru 5 in the last year. Absolutely my favorite series. So this next year. Starting in April. I will play the game in real time. Every day will be once day in each game. I think having that approach will take this series even higher for me.

[@eclektric]

You nailed my only gripe with 5 and why I prefer 4's cast

[@Stelldubs]

Literally my spider sense went off this morning having no idea why to check ur channel and THIS IS WHAT I FIND

[@brycebitetti1402]

I think that you're right in the way that Persona 4 hits more for people who grew up in a home situation more analogous to that of the cast, but I think that's why I relate to Persona 5's cast and story as much as I do. I live in LA, I have my whole life. There are so many people from so many different walks of life here, and in some way, shape or form everyone has connections to someone or something big, tenuous as they may be. It's hard not to get swept up by it all. It's hard to try and stand out when most everyone living here just fades into the background, visual noise creating a kind of chaos so potent that you sometimes forget to clock that the people who make up a crowd aren't some amorphous mass of faces but actual people with lives to live. The city is a direct line to a lot of major societal issues that you're just a speck in the face of. I really relate to these characters as they try to make their voices heard over the noise because it's something you tend to want to do when living here. It really captures the feeling of what living in a large city is like in a way that not many videogames have, and I really enjoy it for that.

[@venustheanimecat6513]

As much as I loved P5R (even if I didn’t play the 3rd semester chapter due to not knowing that you had to bond with both Maruki and Akechi, but I saw a lot of cutscenes), you really got me thinking about the 3rd semester’s message.

[@jmurray1110]

Yeah the main issue I see is the destruction of free will I wouldn’t mind a Siri’s without suffering but I’m also a libertarian socialist so a right to autonomy is essential Also yeah I wish the thieves were full blown anarchists because you know that fits with their rhetoric whereas now they are essentially the “progressive neoliberals” as in yeah we can do that in like 10 years but we can’t be too hasty while the people on bottom get killed on mass by a system that sees them as exploitable subhumans

[@mook675]

Appreciate all your work and insanely funny commentary. Love all your persona vids and recently have gone back to watch older ones and I love the perspectives you give on games. Thanks Kbash!

[@persona3rulez]

Speaking of knockdowns in P4. Okay, you have to spend one more turn BUT if you hit the enemies with phys attack then they become dizzy and skip their turn(or a few?). I've really missed it in P5 but I guess it's only natural they don't let me abuse Technicals just like that.

[@KevinSkye1]

19:59 Okay, I can't lie. Sojiro's dialogue, voice acting and writing really made me feel something. Grew up without any real male positive influence in my life so I gravitated pretty hard to how he treats you in the game. And yes, I'm getting teary eyed typing this. Gotta go~

[@sirrealism7300]

Oh... that must be why you have an anime catgirl profile pic.

[@KhaosElement]

Damn, missed this coming out. Amazing work as always.

[@nothinghere7694]

Damn, I actually loved this video. Guess I'm subbing and starting the dive to your old videos.

[@VincentEternal]

46:20 honestly ya that seems to just be the thing with this universe. The persona world is also connected with smt if and devil summoner. This kind of stuff just seems to happen to these people and it never seems to end. Like Raidou was fighting a bunch of weird ass demons out on the streets of Tokyo in the 1920’s why does nobody mention that in the modern times?

[@phillemon7664]

In Raidou no one sees the demons that Raidou fights, in the opening of the first game where we see a man transforming into a red cape it implies they jump into some sort of time stop where only those trained to see demonic presences can see, now nowhere is this stated in canon outside of SMTV but I digress some really wacky shit happens in the two Raidou games that probably should be in their history books.

[@FredMaverik]

Because none of these games are actually in the same universe, stop fucking pretending. Only Persona is in persona universe. Other games are their own thing, no matter how much of timeline bullshit you try to squeeze in. Nop, SMt IF and Devil Summoner are not in the same universe as the Persona games.

[@VincentEternal]

@@FredMaverik yes they are.

[@TheBenjamin109]

I wish the Persona 5 party could get along like the Persona 4 party. Why isn’t one of them openly homophobic? Why isn’t one of them stealing the other’s credit card? Truly, why can’t they just feel like family where one is blatantly awful to be around and we still hang out with them anyway. Persona 5 cast clearly loves each other, really don’t get this complaint.

[@BitchChill]

I guess it's because they don't goof off as much or get into anime tactics

[@meaninglez100]

Really not a fan of the whole "I would never rob the people of their right to suffer thing". Doesn't come off nearly as noble as I think they imagine it does

[@Maggerama]

True.

[@WomenRespecter9000]

It isnt meant to be noble, its meant to be a deliberate choice in favor of reality over fabricated utopia. You can argue one side over the other, but both perspectives have merit.

[@Athenya]

It's especially a really weird to hear for disabled people, because they most likely had someone go "Oh but you don't get to experience working! ;)", when they just wanna be able to live a decent live

[@Princeomishore]

Right?

[@cazador9397]

I think it's an interesting concept, but they could have presented it better. I haven't played it since it came out, but I don't really remember they're being any distinct negatives to Maruki's world. I agree to extent with the idea of suffering being important, but both sides don't seem to be equally balanced in the game.

[@malakai_adam]

Was just on a megaten video binge last night, but nothing compares to the vaguely depressing tone of a kbash review ❤️

[@KevinSkye1]

30:16 *Hokuto No Ken. Kenshiro the MC, whose signature technique was the Hokuto Hyakuretsu Ken(The move in The Showtime) existed in a post apocalyptic time period and wore an outfit similar to Makoto. Makoto No Ken if you will

[@khibimo1874]

Great video! P5R is my favorite game, so it’s always fun to hear people’s opinions about it. I think you made really solid points throughout (though I vehemently disagree with your take on the third semester). I would have loved to hear your opinion on Beneath the Mask and it’s, imo, amazing thematic lyrics with its allusion to the masque of the red death. God, every time I think about p5 I love it even more.

[@BenOlsberg1995]

I may as well be pointing out that tires are round with this statement, but the sheer amount of effort you put into your content (indicated by the length of your more recent uploads alone) cannot be overstated. Your channel is a unique one in that, while game reviewers are a dime a dozen on this platform you take a far more in depth, analytical approach to what you cover and you're never afraid to share your true thoughts, even if it may garner you some one sided scrutiny. Hot takes or no, I genuinely love your videos and I re-watch several of them at least a few times a week. Your content stands out so much to me because of your far-more-intelligent-than-most approach to covering the media you indulge in. I won't even lie and say my life is a terrible onslaught of agonizing tribulations, but I certainly would be lying if I said that given what I do endure daily it doesn't feel overwhelming at times. But your videos do help lighten the load by giving me something I enjoy to focus on, and look forward to. I really enjoyed your coverage of the Persona series and I'm excited to see what you're going to cover next. Keep on with it, please.

[@Cool30Comics]

Your points on villains was really interesting. And I’d have to agree that sometimes in life the “villains” you run into don’t have much sympathetic reason behind their actions. Just selfish and apathetic. We gotta look out for each other and persevere

[@chrisgonzalez3388]

As someone who has never played Persona, I’m glad to get a perspective from someone who has played it from the beginning

[@yurikuki]

I understand your critique regarding Maruki's plotline. I was always siding with Maruki because I felt the PT had a more selfish approach towards change and freedom. I was also asking the same questions like "what about people who can only get these opportunities in Maruki's world? Like people who are physically and financially incapablle of making these changes to their lives." But it makes sense why the Phantom Thieves wanted to stop him. At the end of the day, they're still teens that were given super powers. They don't understand the full grasp on how exactly the world works and how much suffering there actually is. It was a nice arc and I could understand both perspectives, I just wish it was written and was explored more in depth. For a game about rebellion and freedom, I feel like the writers were too scared to tackle the issues further and I also feel like they didn't want to massively change the world of Persona by the end for the sake of future games. Atlus needs dem Persona money after all.

[@somelucifrostguy9208]

I'm new here: do you purposely use a bad mic when recording your gameplay? It's funny af, I'm just curious.

[@LuminousArc92]

one of the big issues with Persona 5 is the pacing. The story is always on rather than having peaks and valleys which makes it beyond exhausting. There is never a moment when it's not phantom thieves. They go to Hawaii: Phantom Thieves. Go to the beach: Phantom Thieves. School Festival=Phantom Thieves. All the confidants: Phantom Thieves. Royal fixed this a little bit with some of the moments they added in like the school event cleaning up the park or the boys at the food festival. Moments when they were just being normal people. Granted those scenes were ultimately added for Maruki and Yoshizawa moments but even so. They were what it needed so much more of. Down time. Someone once tried to counter argue that the confidants and stuff are the down time but its incorrect. a) because they're never not about phantom thieves, and b) they're optional. The main mandatory content needs the peaks and valleys down time in order to have good pacing. Compare and contrast with Persona 3. It was the opposite of P5's pacing problem. Long valleys and short spread apart peaks during the full moon sections with the rare moment sprinkled throughout. Persona 4 struck a good balance of peak and valley moments.

[@YetiCoolBrother]

Idk man, saying that confidants are optional in a Persona game is like saying dodge-rolling is optional in a Souls game. Like sure you can do it but you'd be purposefully handicapping yourself & going against what the game assumes you will do.

[@TehPiemaygor]

As someone who watched the anime (still don't have the game but will soon) what I took away from the story is that it's about how the people at large choose to ignore horrible problems instead of facing the truth, like how many people totally new what Kamoshida was doing to students, but said nothing or pretended like nothing was wrong. And that didn't make the issues go away. It only ended up making things worse.

[@richanddarksbane1439]

Man the effort you put into this, I appreciate every bit of it, very good video and a great conclusion

[@Maxbeedo2]

The game really struggles with the dichotomy of real, serious problems in the world and fantastical, god-like beings interfering at random. It tries to link the personal, relatable problems of individuals with society-wide corruption but seems to lose track of that connection as the game progresses. Kamoshida was evil on his own, but later on the villains all got to their positions of power through direct or indirect supernatural intervention (having access or being helped by someone with access to the metaverse), which makes them significantly less applicable. Who gets access to the Nav and when? I dunno, don't worry about it! Rebellion! Societal Reform! (But only through the fickle whims of gods)

[@FredMaverik]

True. One thing that REALLY bothers me is the fucking app. Why....

[@hammieli1875]

17:52 I believe the term is “Persona”

[@sokumotanaka9271]

34:22 "Buddy has one moment of weakness in the middle of the game." THANK YOU!

[@sokumotanaka9271]

I wouldn't personally mind Akechi if he didn't murder, hurt, scar innocent people cause of his "revenge" Like cool still go to jail.

[@LeoMidori]

@@sokumotanaka9271 Seriously, I got tired of his Light Yagami style Machiavellianism pretty immediately. Don't care if he's stylish, he's genuinely terrible and I always knew he was looking down on the protagonist and it gave me no motivation to feel sympathy for him.

[@Stryfe52]

I wish Akechi was nice I think he would be cool if he was nice and didn’t lie, steal, and kill without dignity

[@kevinmay9151]

Real talk: him losing it wasn't the problem. The two problems were everyone making Ryuji out to be wrong when he called morgana out, and that whole section ate up what should of been time developing Haru.

[@BigFalconar]

@@kevinmay9151 100% this. Morgana’s issue isn’t built up well enough to deserve a breakdown/runaway like that. All the “am I really human” scenes prior to it are the same thread redone - maybe as an indication of spiraling, but they’re still too few to justify it. Ryuji was right to call him out, yet because he’s ‘brash boy tm” he has to play grovel-time. It’s dumb.

[@sarahszabo4323]

Wow, this actually sparked my interest in the series. I'll play it after this hellish semester I've been doing :)

[@stanner4621]

Really enjoyed this, i enjoy your writing a lot and the hour flew by. Keep up the work man

[@MoonlitSlime]

Another great video Kbash! You have such a fun delivery, but genuinely interesting insight. I'm always happy to see another video from you in the feed 👍

[@SleepDeprivationVids]

Even as someone who thoroughly enjoys the persona series I have to admit the amount of time needed to completely can be a bit daunting.

[@IceQueen975]

"You're brainwashing people" And this, friend, is why Akechi has a lotta good points and y'all just Mad he's Right.

[@kevinmay9151]

Yeah but...is that actually happening or is that whataboutism....What are the police doing that's any different....and how effective are the police when you need evidence....just sayin.

[@gryffehondor4236]

Akechi would be making a good point if EVERYONE had a palace and the Phantom Thief were selecting, based on their personal criterias, who "deserves" to be 'brainwashed'. Except the game makes an explicit point that only extremely corrupted, asshat people get a palace, so anyone with one is 100% guaranteed to be an abuser / murderer / molester / whatever.

[@drasconboy6349]

@@gryffehondor4236 Yeah cause Futaba and Wakaba was definitely one of those things

[@staticshock4239]

@@drasconboy6349 Palaces are formed from having intensely strong desire. Futaba's intensely strong desire is simply to be with her mom and wants to be with her, even contemplating on dying just to be with her. Heck it's hinted that if you don't do her palace in time, she commits suicide since it's the 2nd anniversary of her mother's death and she's "finally with her".

[@drasconboy6349]

@@staticshock4239 You realize I’m responding to someone who said only evil asshats can have Palaces, right?

[@thejonbrownshow8470]

14:57 "social activities is more difficult than the combat" guess persona is just being realistic lol

[@roguerifter9724]

Ahh Persona 5 easily my favorite game in the main series. I've had a soft spot for stories with rebel or outlaw protagonists as far back as I can recall. The first book I ever read on my own was a version of Robin Hood even if that version of the story is now among my least favorite because as I grew older I realized that the final conflict was wholly Robin's fault in that version. Plus I have a soft spot for Techie type characters including Computer Hackers so Futaba is easily my favorite party member in the series so far

[@raisamike3]

That last bit really got me. take care of yourself dude

[@titaniumcranium3755]

That futaba coomer groupie point can apply for all the pt girls really (except haru since she's barely talked about)

[@marcomarcon5936]

this review is golden KBash. thank you

[@GigaMan91]

I know he didn't just play tic-tac-toe on Shido's head, TWICE!

[@jamestolbert9521]

Exposition skit was genius Please kbash please be successful forever

[@pac-mac7797]

One thing that strikes me as odd and further highlights the superficial nature of a lot of Persona 5s progressive themes is the fact that the palace rulers are still sent to prison. This has been touched on in the video, but I'm specifically referring to the redundancy of said action. If these people are genuinely remorseful and the odds of them becoming repeat offenders is virtually nonexistent, effectively completely rehabilitating them thanks to the change of heart, why bother imprisoning them? The only conclusion is just to punish them for the sake of punishing them, which seems a tad contradictory since the whole game is built around this seemingly progressive narrative. Again there are many more concrete examples of the games hypocrisy in this regard, its treatment of Ann and just the overall homophobia, and while I wouldn't realistically expect this to be addressed in-game, it still really sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

[@ninaga11]

Absolutely love these videos 👌👌

[@GamerJrdn]

Amazing to hear your thoughts on one of my favourite games, hope you'll consider taking a look at Persona 5 Strikers/Scramble since despite being a spinoff it continues the story (well from original 5 but still well done imo)

[@thejonbrownshow8470]

44:33 Shido: *sees you editing tic tac toe on his head* akechi... I have a new target

[@Squidbeep]

I think the key with Persona 5's cast is less about being outcasts in the sense that society has no place for them (it very clearly does for all of these characters, just, in a way that wants to exploit them disregarding their free will.), but being outcasts in the sense that their situations aren't exactly all that relatable to normal people, at a glance at least. Yusuke is very obviously eccentric but I think all of these characters are presented as being eccentric in a way that other Persona casts aren't. (I mean like, except for Persona 2, probably. Those guys are Weird.) My main takeaway when playing Persona 5 is that these are the people everyone around them has stereotypes for. When I was a kid I didn't have any friends that were like Ann, or Ryuji, or Makoto. If it were me, I would have assumed that these people were just out of touch, privileged, generally bad people. Unrelatable and not worth associating with. This doesn't extend only to the playable party members, but to just about every social link in the game. They're outcasts, the kind of people other people cast judgment on based on the unusual circumstances of their life. The party in Persona 5 is very much deconstructing all of the Weirdos you can meet in society and showing that anyone can be kind and down to earth and worth getting to know, no matter how they seem at first. At least, that's how I interpreted it. Unfortunately, as you state, Persona 5's story telling does stumble a little with the missed opportunity of making a commentary about the structure of power in society as a whole. The way that I see it, Persona 5 was never set up to tackle the topic of societal reform, systemic issues, and rebellion in a clear and meaningful way, merely having it be the plot device that drives this story about individual characters and their struggles within society. The sad part about that is that we see what a story that decided to be bolder with its themes could have looked like.

[@hyunka2756]

My issue with P5 palaces (original P5, haven't played Royal) is that, while they're definitely a step up for the saga, it feels like it is a step that should've happened long ago. They're not long hallway level of out-of-time, but aside from atmosphere, they don't offer much. They're interconnected hallways with pretty decoration, but with very little to explore, no incentives to replay or backtrack through, and puzzles designed for toddlers. Original P5 could've done with 2 less dungeons and villains (the gang guy and Haru's father if you ask me) in favour of expanding the rest of dungeons and characters. It is also really jarring how at the beginning, the game stresses the need to make a safe route to the treasure and pull of a "phanthom" theft, but two dungeons in you know the game has completely given up on the idea of pulling one succesfully and that no matter what the undercooked plan is going to fail and result in a fight. And later on you don't even undercook a plan, you just go for the whole thing raw. For a possible Persona 6, I'm expecting, at least, dungeons with secret areas and bosses, and hopefully puzzles that aren't a bad joke. But even then, while the game will be great (because it is Persona after all), that will still fall behind to the standards of today's RPGs, not even mentioning what it will look like compared to its contemporaries. Also, my utter disbelief when the game stopped me mid playthrough with the prompt that you can change character's costumes. And there is not. A SINGLE ONE. YOU CAN UNLOCK. WITHOUT PAYING. Fucking insulting. Still love the game tho.

[@staticshock4239]

Actually there are some free dlc costumes.

[@hyunka2756]

@@staticshock4239 Oh my bad, I just googled and it is true that they made many of them free upon the release of Royal. Which is good, but it is still awful how barebones vanilla was, specially since none of them are unlockables.

[@aagh8714]

yeah, they went from early PS1-era dungeons to... very pretty, late PS1 dungeons lol tartarus wasn't very good but i thought it being a huge dungeon which you had to slowly progress through the entire game was a cool idea at least

[@ThortheMightyOne]

Small note, crosswords were in normal persona 5 but they took up an evening. In royal they don't now

[@toddbailey8474]

One of my friends running gags in person 5 is that the group shares 1 collective brain cell.

[@helenaotam5596]

I’ve platinums the game. I don’t understand why every some many people think that akechi’s modified confidant was intended to redeem him. The game alway poses him a an antagonist. I though it just fleshed out his mindset and sympathize with him. Also just make his sacrifice make more sense. The video is still really good

[@alexsamurai1230]

Finished at the end of the regular game since I haven't played Royal yet. Felt as though the critique got heavily colored by the author's real world political views towards the end to the detriment of the analysis. Shido may be immensely dislikable and satisfying to defeat in the era of Trump but it doesn't necessarily make him a great villain. He is an accurate analogue of real world powerful sociopaths, but would ordinarily need more nuance and fleshing out to provide an emotionally satisfying conclusion to Joker's story. Fortunately Persona pulls a Harry Potter and gives the character depth over to the secondary antagonist (Snape/Akechi) leaving Shido to fill the Voldemort role of 2-D ultimate evil. Likewise, the points made about trusting the police, reform vs revolution; felt as though the author was dissatisfied that their own political views were not reaffirmed. Regardless of real world political debates, I'd argue that for any combination of the following - a) the writers would be happy with reform, removing bad apples, and didn't wish to advocate for wholesale dismantling of power structures, b) sketching out a world following the dismantling of power structures would be outside of the remit of the game and risk becoming a ham-fisted political treatise, c) the characters are teenagers and would be fairly naïve and parochial in the changes that they envision - the ending is satisfactory and does enough to justify the overall theme.

[@nicktoons125]

Will say this - For the "wealthy" people, here's how they are outcasts: 1. Ann attracts disdain, envy, and scorn because of her natural good looks, being quarter-American and the rumors, that she's sleeping with Kamoshida. 2. Yusuke is abused and exploited by his guardian, Madarame. The other students at his school treat him differently due to both his association with Madarame and his behavior in general, and after Madarame is arrested, he's actively shunned. In one recurring Mementos conversation, he casually mentions that keeping a low profile at school isn't a problem for him, because no one ever talks to him anyway. 3. Makoto's parents both died before the events of the game, her mother from causes that are never explained and her father being a cop who died in the line of duty. This leaves her to be raised by her older sister Sae, who pressures her to succeed in a society that doesn't value women as much as men. Furthermore, Shujin's principal twists her arm to investigate the Phantom Thieves, with the implication that it will affect her future, while ignoring what she wants. She has no real friends and little relations with the student body she is supposed to be representing, leaving her pretty isolated. 4. Haru is the heiress to a multinational fast food company and is being forced into an arranged marriage with a man who is obviously an abusive asshole. She has nobody to support her through it, with her father focused on advancing his career at the cost of harming his relationship with her and his employees, and after his death at the hands of the Antisocial Force, Haru becomes the company's majority shareholder but feels even more isolated; she mentions more than once that she doesn't know who she can trust, feeling that her father's advisors are only using her to get to his money and take control of the company.

[@crysanthiumvega]

imma be real, neither me nor I think kbash gives a fuck about rich people "problems". which is really the point of what he's saying. these people don't really have problems. you don't have problems until you're in poverty.

[@nicktoons125]

@@crysanthiumvega ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[@nicktoons125]

I mean they do have problems, legit explained it. So.....

[@TheWolfgangGrimmer]

@@crysanthiumvega OK bigot, sure. The problems nicktoons listed are very real and failry radical in most people's eyes, but as soon as they happen to someone with a remotely more comfortable lifestyle than you suddenly their problems don't count, because you _need_ to hate them no matter what, and you need to try to morally grandstand over them no matter how little legitimacy you have in doing so. If any character in this game resembles people like you and KBash, then it's not the victims of people like Shido or Okumura like the two of you want to think. Rather, it's Shadow Sae.

[@crysanthiumvega]

@@TheWolfgangGrimmer actually that's a compliment. shadow sae saw the world impossible to reform. she didn't leap to the correct conclusion - revolution, but it's a step further. if that makes me a bigot than im proud to be one

[@suluketheduke4528]

Akihiko: I've been waiting for this 19:08

[@13thdarkness3]

nice timing i just fisnhed rolyal this week

[@DaviddeBergerac]

I haven't beaten the game yet so if I haven't done it by now I might as well let Kbash spoil everything for me let's gooooo