Reviewing Top Players' OLD Tier Lists in Smash Ultimate...

I went back and reviewed VoiD's, ESAM's, Leffen's, and Mew2King's tier lists back when Smash Ultimate patch 2.0 came out to see just how far we've come. Were they right? Were they cringe? Let's see.
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🕹 Games: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Guilty Gear Strive, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Street Fighter V, FGC, Anime Fighters, Chess, Speedrunning, Dragon Ball FighterZ
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch brings together everyone’s favorite Nintendo characters such as Mario (Super Mario Bros.), Link (The Legend of Zelda), Samus (Metroid), and Pikachu (Pokemon) in one of the most popular fighting games ever made! The series is further set apart by including a selection of 3rd party video game characters from different franchises such as Persona’s Joker, Street Fighter’s Ryu, Final Fantasy VII’s Cloud and Sephiroth, and Sega’s Sonic The Hedgehog. Most recently the game has been updated to Version 13.0 where Square Enix’s Sora from Kingdom Hearts has been added as DLC to the game!
#Marss #SmashBrosUltimate #SuperSmashBrosUltimate #SmashUltimate

[@aab1254]

Congrats to Marss for interacting as little as possible with Leffen and for getting a funny story from the experience with him.

[@Lordin_]

it's actualy insane how this guy consistently acts like a spoiled child, he puts effort into that lmao

[@Todoza]

what did leffen do

[@ThatSneakman]

@@Todoza What -didn't- he do would be an easier answer.

[@Todoza]

@@ThatSneakman what didnt he do?

[@aab1254]

@@Todoza Honestly if you look up Leffen drama you'll find loads

[@Diamond_Aura]

14:18 “Snake was just very Solid” So I hear. They like, made a game about how Solid Snake was if I remember right

[@acannoli8287]

This is a good comment

[@jpag92]

Hearing that caught me off base, I was laughing so hard

[@RootBeer757]

I was thinking the exact same thing

[@DrowningKraken]

"Zain is based Leffen is cringe" One of the laws of smash

[@aab1254]

Ganondorf in high tier is the funniest thing I've seen today

[@imESAM]

#ESAMOPINIONS WAS PEOPLE SCARED TO KNOW THE TRUTH

[@PyMada]

Hi esamuel

[@IAmGalaxian-bi6co]

Hello Electronic Samuel

[@mr.m878]

Mii brawler is wordt character in the game lmao

[@IAmGalaxian-bi6co]

@@mr.m878 believe in the brawler. not top 15 but easily top 25

[@android4754]

This is like the third time I have heard people complain that it was not recognized Corrin was not good early. They weren't good. They used to have a Belmont level recovery and pin was super laggy. They are in the running for most buffed character and there are a lot of characters that were buffed into significance.

[@the_bookworm8281]

That is true that they have been buffed heavily, but even after all the buffs, which was back in 2020, the character still extremely overlooked/underrated until earlier this year.

[@TheUpandComer]

Buffs changed the game so much. Falcon main and he used to really suck, now he’s just inconsistent but so good at getting in compared to before

[@nemi9217]

Same with Diddy, Marss seemed so surprised to see him in low tier, but he genuinely had a bottom 3 recovery it was just so bad. He got so many buffs since then, especially the recovery buff, BUT he was definitely AT BEST mid-tier at the start of Ult. There’s also Bayo too…crazy buffed character

[@ZizouEnjoyer225]

@@the_bookworm8281 Neo and Shadic weren’t top 20 level players in 2020. The character was unexplored due to how bad they were before the buffs, so of course it took time. The same could be said with Falcon. Even after the buffs, it took time for people like Karaage and Jogibu to start doing good with the character. What you fail to realize is unrated doesn’t mean underrated.

[@the_bookworm8281]

@@ZizouEnjoyer225 I know, that is what my comment is trying to portray. Maybe I worded it a little off... Still, it is unusual for a modern fighting game character to go under the radar for as long as Corrin has in Ultimate.

[@ZizouEnjoyer225]

I think you are forgetting that Corrin was massively buffed.

[@art2norrman872]

Went from bad to mid. Wahoo

[@LamalBetta]

@@art2norrman872not even mid I would say he’s easily high tier now

[@monsieur_harrys]

@ZizouEnjoyer225 who ????

[@ZizouEnjoyer225]

@@art2norrman872 I wouldn’t say mid; they are definitely a good character.

[@huh9400]

@@art2norrman872ignorant or rage bait folks what u think

[@Tonjit41]

corrin got buffed like crazy bro. damage on most aerials increased, up air stronger, up b further. they used to be way worse, but still

[@dragnjames2190]

She used to be worse yes, but I think she was still kinda ok before the buffs. It's just the general shock of her not being undeniably top 15 like in smash 4 shocked much of the playerbase into writing the character off completely. Which honestly happened with EVERY smash 4 character that got even slightly nerfed into Ult. Cloud, Corrin, Bayo, Diddy, Sonic etc. Then they got lost in the zeitgeist of an early meta Ultimate with 80 other characters to look at. I look back at early Ult like this: If you weren't top 10 or bottom 10, you were basically invisible. The only characters that got truly buttfucked from 4 to Ult are Marth and Mewtwo. Mewtwo abused Smash 4 mechanics and infinite airdodge more than any other character barring Bayo bat within shenanigans. It's arguably karmic justice that Mewtwo gets his tail extended in the next game lmao. Marth is just a case of a good character stuck in the wrong game. Marth SHOULD work but the engine just works against him so hard. He's a good character trapped in the wrong game, like Brawl Falcon and Smash 4 Roy before him.

[@doofuscawt]

@@dragnjames2190 can you explain what you mean by Good character in the wrong game

[@dragnjames2190]

@@doofuscawt Marth in Ultimate has everything he needs to be successful. Good mobility, solid edge guarding, wide sweeping area denial aerials. Just look at Lucina. The crux of Marth's issues lies in the pacing of Ultimate itself and how fast characters are able to move, the jostling/body blocking mechanics in Ultimate that people can use to intentionally make Marth whiff his sweetspots and the overall more precise hitboxes for his aerials in general. Marth's tippers aren't as generous as in previous games, combined with the higher speed of the cast means Marth has less time to setup. I believe he'd benefit from a more grounded, almost turtle-like playstyle akin to Ryu. Marth's tilts are absolutely amazing and are downright better than most bottom tier characters as a whole. If Marth's tippers were even a tiny bit bigger, like Byleth's for example, he'd be able to truly shine brighter. The same goes for Brawl Falcon. Brawl Falcon retains his good Melee hitboxes for the most part, as well as his amazing mobility stats and good reach. Brawl being Brawl however, doesn't allow Falcon to combo as well as he realistically should and that's honestly one of the only things holding him back. The other is Falcon's susceptibility to chaingrabs due to his fall speed but that's a cast-wide problem in Brawl as a whole. Smash 4 Roy was always kinda goodish atleast in my opinion. The devs gave him that faster paced rushdown/glue eater playstyle he's known for now in Ult. However, the atmosphere in 4 demanded that he run up and shield and be forced to play around stronger shields in a meta where swords kind of sucked unless you were Cloud or had a serious gimmick to compensate, Ala Corrin Pin. The game simply wasn't aggressive enough for Roy to properly be able to abuse his strengths. He couldn't run around, spamming aerials like he can in Ult. These strengths would later be doubled down on and form his new top tier identity in Ultimate.

[@doofuscawt]

@@dragnjames2190 ok thanks for the explanation

[@biledox5576]

Crazy they would buff corin's recovery but never doc's recovery 😅

[@jeezuhskriste5759]

Corrin got 22 buffs since these tierlists were made. She was not the most underrated character, she was just actually a lot worse back then.

[@justalex3880]

Don’t understand why they buffed Sonic. His up air didn’t need that buff 😭 that being said it was cool to see him so low at the beginning of ult’s lifespan

[@benross9174]

I wishee that move was never fixed. Now he can do falling upair as a combo starter :/

[@NeonStudios763]

haha, funni up air to up b go b o i n g

[@kevin3132]

Yeah with this buff he went froom bottom to top3 😂😂

[@SergE1020]

Well hold on, pre-patch sonic up air literally just didn’t work

[@paulakroy2635]

Sonic multi was non functional

[@the_bookworm8281]

I still hold belief to this day that if players from today go back the vanilla version of Ultimate, the meta would look almost completely different than how it was year 1. Instead of Peach, Pichu, Inkling, and Wolf roaming around, you would likely see far more Sonic, Game & Watch, Snake, and ROB. While updates definitely changed the game around to some extent, community discovery and optimization changed the game to a far greater degree.

[@android4754]

I think Pichu would still be running around and we would see probably higher Peach results but about the same amount of that character. I agree Wolf and Inkling would go down. Except for maybe Sonic I agree that those characters would have risen, but ROB and Snake were threats in the early game anyway.

[@ZizouEnjoyer225]

Palutena and Peach would still be meta

[@the_bookworm8281]

@@ZizouEnjoyer225 I mean that is true cause they are still very meta to this day. XD Just not literally everywhere like during year 1.

[@domgaar9933]

@@android4754can’t forget all the Olimars that would still be running top 8s

[@muishaggyblanco2349]

How many times did you back throw flip kick leffen 💀

[@bolovx2339]

“Leffen is cringe” -Marss

[@basara2102]

Important to remember that Corrin was buffed quite a bit. Up air auto cancels got a bigger window and the up b was improved a lot for recovering.

[@DedikateSSB]

"snake was just very solid" unintentional pun

[@trollninja904]

you know shits crazy when esam has the most accurate opinion

[@deadriccow]

We need like smash con to have a patch 1.0 bracket

[@Psychoma99]

Palu with the 10 year nair

[@mortomultiverse8778]

8:30 mmmmm I think there's some reasons to hate Leffen out there that doesn't include him being a smash player. But it's unveliebable right? He seems like such a friendly, cool, mature person that definetly doesn't bring a cloud of toxicity, drama and bad energy to every community he tries to touch because of his crybully persona that starts conflicts and plays the victim when there's an ounce of a response

[@DtrJr]

that bit abt marss and leffen playing friendlies is so funny knowing leffen lmao

[@DtrJr]

great idea for a video. been loving these types of ones youve made as of late!

[@aidanhunter7535]

Censoring shulk is the funniest thing

[@ethanoliver9648]

Esam having the most accurate tierlist is funny as hell

[@IAmGalaxian-bi6co]

5:50 Glad to see someone ruining Leffen’s day

[@dh.9752]

Are you okay man

[@aab1254]

@@dh.9752 He's good

[@andrewcavallo1877]

4:28 Shulk being bleeped every time Marss says his name is the strangest thing

[@silvesta5027]

I need to see Marss’ own tierlist from version 2.0

[@liveoptimistic]

As someone who was crazy dialed into y'alls content during the panda days, hearing you say that #EsamOpinions were based all along is actually crazy

[@miibrawler]

suprised marss didnt check brawler on the other tier lists, he got miffed on all of them

[@tendo_no_entiendo]

9:50 seems like marss forgot about pre-patch chrom, where he could any percent up b confirm into a stock "trade" since opponent fell first. Removing it took chrome from top 10-20 to where he is now. it was completely unbalanced. even more so than prematch wario in that you were always down a stock against chrom (or war) because he could win any game if it was even last stock.

[@PlasmaPlague]

Fire video

[@automizi]

“he played pichu, he played a different game” 💀💀💀😂

[@7uxedomask]

Esam's opinion on MiiBrawler has changed so so much lol

[@SonicTheCutehog]

Back when people thought K. Rool was good

[@kuromallow]

"snake was just solid" ok marss

[@Paradox_Of_Crota]

Bro, every tier list had Sonic as Low Mid tier, that's crazy, just show how the Sonic mains Evolved.

[@benmangafan]

in 2.0 of ultimate Sonicx was FARMING locals but had no major results

[@pacothepapershredder]

"snake was just very solid" 14:18 lol he said a thing

[@termamonpiediepew]

9:50 spitting he would be top 3 minimum even in this meta if he had Roy's up b

[@acannoli8287]

Definitely a strong top 10 contender. Imagine edge guarding without sour spots plus better matchups vs characters that need spacing or are difficult to hit with precise combo starters (ex. Mr. G&W up-b or Sonic spindashing)

[@OldManTastic]

His up B was one of the reasons he was good at the start. He'd have a 0-Death combo that would end in a chromcide.

[@abghen2323]

Early meta nairo making Ganondorf high tier in pro tier lists is so funny to me. I hope we get to see it with smash 6

[@LEANSWORTH]

I think it’s funny he mentions if you had a 0-60% combo in the early meta you were top tier but bowser jr is still bottom tier despite doing that and having a true 0td on town on most characters

[@abdullahhusain9336]

Were these tier lists made before Luigi's 0 to death was discovered?

[@GoldfishP22]

The reason olimar was so strong was because there was an actual bug in the game where olimar’s smash attacks were at full power with no charge.

[@supermariomaker1734]

This game has changed a lot that’s not a surprise it’s funny how we starting playing games with pixels and the video game industry almost collapsed but got saved by Nintendo and now meta games change at light speed. This game for example has only been played for about 6 years and now many things are optimized which means pretty much players are done exploring because almost everything has been done but the meta is still not fully resolved for example the dk renaissance where multiple people played him to the point there was a invitational tournament in Japan with only dk.

[@alecorn5200]

5:40 shoutout SMT 4

[@ojutay8375]

Falco was buffed significantly

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

I wouldn't say significantly. He's definitely noticeably better from how he was in early versions of the game, but he wasn't buffed nearly as much as other characters. Also I really doubt that Falco's spot on the tier list would change much if he didn't get those buffs.

[@ojutay8375]

@@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569 nair being fixed, d tilt and side special getting faster. Those are very important buffs. No one was playing him until those changes

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

​@@ojutay8375 How much of that has to do with the buffs themselves and how much of that has to do with Falco being overlooked early on in the game's meta due to him being a low tier character in Smash 4 G&W is a primary example of a Smash 4 low tier being overlooked early on in the game's meta and having his place in the meta improving despite not receiving any buffs.

[@ojutay8375]

@@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569 well yes but obviously the buffs helped.

[@Tonjit41]

pichu was more nerfed by the community than the game. he still has lightning loops and fsmash still kills at 2. mans not like bottom of mid tier

[@Supersonic37838]

Same with mega man

[@mando2975]

quick correction to 2:45: Ken won a major and beat leo while Wrath also beat Tweek and got top 8 at frostbite before covid

[@CovertGhoul]

Bro, Ken won a 300+ tournament in Chicago like 3 months in, lol. (with sonic) y'all just slept on GnW and Sonic so hard lol

[@Shizumu1]

mars tierlist NOW

[@TheUpandComer]

Thank goodness someone does play Marth tho. Ignaize is super fun to watch and if he traveled more Marth would get some respect as a character

[@panzerldr5724]

Brawler was giga buffed from launch…

[@OldManTastic]

Im surprised more people dont have Wario higher.

[@LMD123-u6z]

Marss I don't think smash player hate leffen me but the 37 dis tracks

[@Evan-mt7bc]

I'm convinced esamopinions was only started because esam was the only top player who didn't say he played a mid tier, he even said Brawl Pikachu was like top 10 in a community that actually called Pikachu mid tier

[@Mr.D0rAdE517]

Poor Shiek.....

[@sass_king5576]

damn Rosa was always so low

[@Keeby.]

Its so sick to look at early ultimate and all these cool characters are at the top then you cut to modern day and its like fucking steve sonic and g&w

[@gabrielsalahi3656]

Leffin outing Brawler in Bottom Tier is funny because he ended up being a top tier

[@jacksonperhaes5763]

I made it into a Marss video lets go

[@DtrJr]

corrin got a fair bit of buffs tbh saying she was a mid tier is pretty fair

[@oshinoshrimp5320]

Mii brawler over kazuya is CRAZY

[@solaraloe]

to be fair mii brawler was complete cheeks on release so I get why all of the early tierlists put him that low

[@oshie77]

Ken and Ryu were genuinely some of the worst in the game on release. Theyre one of the most buffed characters just to get them to high mid tier lol

[@Scyziken]

Brawler was the most buffed character in the game dude got like 10 buffs a patch minimum

[@uprollsariotvan]

Bro there's many reasons why people hate Leffen, and him being a Smash player it is NOT one of them

[@xKingxTitus]

Pichu was the best character in the game before the nerfs

[@Corey41836]

2:44 eh I would say pre because wrath got 5th at frostbite (super major)

[@imp106]

why did leffen tier inkling boy and inkling girl and separate😭😭

[@arcvigaming8198]

Every Shulk placement is fair imo

[@OrenMystery]

"It took a long time for Sonics to get good" can you repeat that? I'm not quite sure I recall ANY point with a skilled sonic player.. (Jokes, maybe, possibly)

[@OrashiTV]

Still can’t believe some of y’all thought Ike was high tier. . . I ain’t forget

[@LamalBetta]

Wasn’t he nerfed? (Yes I know his recovery would move him down)

[@the_bookworm8281]

@@LamalBetta His nair got slightly nerfed, but his everything else got greatly buffed in patches. It is just that we heavily overrated him at launch and his car crash spiral to the low tiers today reflects this.

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

@@LamalBetta I'd describe it as Ike was reworked in a way that ended up putting him in a worse spot from where he was due to his primary win condition (nair into up air) being nerfed really hard. Plenty of his other moves were buffed to compensate, like his up b, down tilt, dash attack, and fair.

[@xanander4693]

Bro his nair was probably the best in the game before it got nerfed. He was indeed a potential top tier

[@tricot6468]

I have the same cups that u do lol

[@Super_GreninjaXD]

Why did so many people but link in top tier?

[@Supersonic37838]

Normal link is cheeks bro, he requires brain cells and his moves are slow and laggy. (Except Nair ofc)

[@mrpineapple7666]

Ike is bottom 4

[@-en_x3]

methinks somebody forgot how much corrin got buffed most importantly a damage increase to fair, bair, and up air in 8.0 and this buff in 4.0 Dragon Ascent travels noticeably more vertical and horizontal distance (height multiplier: 1.63x (ground)/1.53x (aerial) → 1.83x/1.73x).

[@chessandmusicwithoskiez6241]

Whas good

[@imdobbergd]

2:40 alr on release and the first few updates sonic was garbage, non of his moves worked and he genuinely was that bad thats higher than he should be

[@ultinum1162]

9:22

[@zexoidx]

Fun fact. The first major zss won was not Genesis but a japanese tournament in 2019.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Not true. The first major won by zss was Collision 2019 by Marss. Then he won Smash factor 8. And only then did Kuro win Umebura Sp6.

[@loganw2433]

Bro is saying OLD aggressively

[@abelee9324]

MONKEY HIGH TIER FOREVER!! WHOS WITH ME??

[@SethWeber-lm3rx]

3rd

[@itstoby289]

First

[@LeCanadianGoat]

Woah im early, hi love ur content

[@perfectcellperfectcell]

Marss I edge to your videos

[@perfectcellperfectcell]

Ok I’m sorry

[@qcard76]

Dawg

[@kennybosefus]

You care about Snake too. Don't play.

[@huh9400]

Cringe marss leffen defender 🤢🤢

[@GamerXperience911]

33 views in 1 minute, marss fell off